Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #688 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 688 Tuesday, 6 June 2000 Today's Topics: GIG BIZ: ITALY gig...looking for Italian Crimheads GIG BIZ: world crim audients connection page Re: Unapropiate behaviour King Crimson fan & ETer... the making of TCOL KC & sex (sleep eat drink dream ;-) Bruford, X and things deja VROOOM/Mac DVD/G4 Can we please ignore Mr.Farah's post? Vocal Melodies, Lyrics more from the onion and other stinkers young person's guide to projekcts Haven't bought IT yet! Bill Bruford`s Earthworks-All Heaven Broke Loose CD Re: Ladies of the Road Review: PX "Heaven and Earth" ProjeKct X REVIEW: TCoL To Clarify (Nostagia) Chit-Chat, it's only talk... Free Radio Prison City TCOL at last! RE: Bootlegging - read on!! audience participation Either Orchestra "Red" on WNYC 6/5/2000 Andy McCulloch Thanks (including the Frippification theory) + re: possible answers + gift Cassette of New album P or K ? ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 12:39:34 CEST From: "Enzo Diodato Lamberti" Subject: GIG BIZ: ITALY gig...looking for Italian Crimheads Hi everyone! The first i post...bit excited! I was looking for fans that are going to join the 22/6 date in LEGNANO... Is there anybody from Milano? If so, pls mail me! Thanx guys, Enzo P.S.:TCoL does sound great...who says V-Drums must sound like real drums? They just don't want to! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2000 18:34:30 -0400 From: Dave & Racquel Subject: GIG BIZ: world crim audients connection page I've changed the page at http://www.midnightmecca.com/vbpro/crimso/index.html It's now set up for all Crimsos going to shows world wide that want to find others needing or having spare tix/hotel space to swap/sell/share, or just to meet up! Please visit and sign in! (Maybe I'll need a translator now?) Thanx-Dave ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2000 08:25:14 -0500 From: Daniel Santo Orcero Subject: Re: Unapropiate behaviour King Crimson fan & ETer... Hello ETrs; This post is to defend Macahan a little bit; I think it was unappropiate to rush him as bitterly as Peter. I wouldn't have acted like him in a KC show, but it is not such a bad behavior. And besides, I understand that KC would make more communication with the audience, not just play, say "thanks - don't smoke" and get away without looking at the people. >((I hope that in the future you express yourself better about your elders.)) This comment is particulary out of place. If you can't laugh at yourself, specially if you're mature, you've got a problem. Don't behave like a wise father because he's not your son. This is just oppinion, I'm not trying to disturb anyone. Sincerely, DanieL ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2000 09:32:56 +0200 From: Erik Matthysen Subject: the making of TCOL This may be an old thread (I have been skipping much of ET lately) but can someone help me to find the excerpts from Robert Fripp's diary describing the making of TCOL? I'm sure many of you saved a copy... Any readable format would be welcome. I was actually hoping to find some of the diary entries with the CD, as Adrian did with Belewprints. On another matter: where can I find the text to the Barber Shop? Since KC won't come to Belgium: off to Bonn tomorrow afternoon! We'll let you know! Erik Matthysen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 15:18:28 +0400 From: "Iscander the Aquarius" Subject: KC & sex (sleep eat drink dream ;-) Hello ETers! What I am going to say now ...Well-it's been on my mind for a few years .Finally I got the proper audience.So: has anyone of you ever spotted that in the "Emmanuelle" movie(first part of it) the soundtrack of the most ...uhmm...EMOTIONAL ;) episodes is nothing else but "LTIA II " !!! Slightly reworked,covered by some musicians,but it's KC's music !!! Or maybe I have some KC paranoia %)> Check it out guys before they take me to the madhouse... [ Yes, this has been discussed at length in ET before. No new posts on this subject, please. -- Toby ] A\\ www.iscander.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 04:50:11 -0700 (PDT) From: jan geerts Subject: Bruford, X and things After reading Fripp's recent diaries and older interviews on ET, I was amazed by his thoughts on Bruford. I think Bruford was great with Yes, but since KC, he really got his own, fantastic style. I think it's great when the whole band plays around the basic rhythm. I've got the BLUE nights cd and love it, what a great band (I'm not into Earthworks though), and there you got Bill really doing his thing. But I'm not sorry he's no longer in KC, because Pat is doing really great; I loved TCoL when I first got it 3 weeks ago, and love it even more now. I've just received 'Heaven and Earth'. The drums here are much more in yer face then on TCoL, but for the rest : there isn't much space in this. After a few songs, my ears are already weary. I will give it a couple more listenings though, in small portions. And : I'm very curious to read what bands the guys like now (Metallica ? eww, but hey, it's their ears); most people apologizing for whatever in their letters needn't ; imho : what's the 'h' doing there, an opinion is honest. LOL, nice one! cheers ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2000 08:26:51 -0400 From: Adam Aronson Subject: deja VROOOM/Mac DVD/G4 I know this problem has appeared numerous times here before... I cannot get deja VROOOM to perform properly on my G4 w/DVD. Could someone please email me privately with solutions and/or similar problems? Thanks, Adam ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 09:28:49 -0400 From: Bob Pascarella Subject: Can we please ignore Mr.Farah's post? An obvious attempt to push every button on every current topic with the "We're bootlegging the next show" post . It disturbs me to realize that someone will go to this effort to solicit controversy. I hope that ET members will ignore this immaturity and not waste our time with replies (as I have done). R. Pascarella ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 10:43:19 EDT From: Hocow at aol dot com Subject: Vocal Melodies, Lyrics Howdy, Greg Jones wrote: >Was anyone else struck by the unusually "out there" nature of the vocal >melodies? Yes. I've been tossing some theories around in my head for a few days about the vocal passages. I think they are the way they are because they, for the most part, have evolved from the accompaniment rather than being pre-composed songs by Adrian or Fripp. The accompaniment, in general, evolved from improvs. This results in vocal melodies that a song writer would not normally stumble upon. This is not new in the Belew era. I would guess that Thela, Elephant Talk, Neurotica, The Howler, and Indiscipline are all vocal passages created to enhance a groove the band fell into and turned into a composition. In contrast you have songs written by individuals and arranged by the band: People, One Time, Matte, and Heartbeat. I think there are pros and cons to both types of writing. Compositions are generally more polished and the lyrics tend to be more well thought out. The naturally evolved vocal passages have the same advantages as improvs. They tend to be imaginative, spontaneous, happy accidents the composer would probably never write. The lyrics do tend to be free association and not always more than a collection of one liners elevated to lyric status. When it works it's really cool but you do sometimes wish Ade had more time to come up with something better. I don't mean this to be too critical because I like most of his lyrics. Sometimes they seem to have hit the studio at the first draft stage or an even earler stage. The original lyric for "Yesterday" was "Scrambled Eggs". If the Beatles worked as directly from concept to finished product as Crimson do the lyric would have remained "Scrambled Eggs". I do enjoy the wonderful quirkyness of most of Ade's lyrics but I think sometimes we're just getting "all the words that fit" (apologies to Rolling Stone). This is sounding a lot harsher than I mean it, so, Adrian, if you read this, please don't take it personally. If you do, I hope it inspires you to write something as fun as Prozakc Blues. Brad Wilmot ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 09:40:55 -0500 From: "Pinke, Brian" Subject: more from the onion and other stinkers Over at the Onion, there are several more interesting "interviews" and reviews, including some of Mr. Rieflin, drummer who was almost in Ministry and co-conspirator with Fripp, Gunn, and the whole crafty Seattle gang: http://avclub.theonion.com/avclub3530/justify3530.html There's also a nice review of BoaG and KC: Absent Lovers... From recent ET's: RE: A couple of amusing theories: > [...] Fripp forcing Gunn into Crimson > [...] Fripp is holding a Gunn to his own head? Or perhaps he's vetting his successor. > I'm sure there are some fans who would praise a door squeak if King >Crimson released it on the album... :-) Are you familiar with "A Door is Ajar" by the Kronos Quartet? [trad./ arr. KQ in the credits] On to the really burning question: > Should I put my ProjeKCt CD's at P or K???? Man, life gets complicated sometimes, eh? I'm actually kind of surprised you don't have them in chronological order, by release date. P.S. A "4" in Roman numerals looks like this: IV. And "5"? V. > Has the Cheerfully Insane one ever thought of colleKcting all his Frippist > epigrams and written statements, > binding them in a publishable volume of permanent form??? According to Fripp's liner notes, the Book of Craft is due in 2017. > Consistancy is The Hobgoblin Of Little Minds Emerson actually wrote "A foolish consistancy...." Oh, damn. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2000 16:46:25 +0200 From: Pascal Sauvaget Subject: young person's guide to projekcts Bonjour, it's not a post about TCOL, which i haven't bought until now. i have the projekct box set; i like it a lot, especially P3 (and i prefer KCCC 7 P4, rather than the P4 of the box set). i'm wondering if it has any interest to buy the young person's guide to projekct. for those who have both, what do you think is the need to have both? another question: what is this track 'deception of the thrush' credited to both P3 and P4? does it come from the box set? thank you for your replies. au revoir Pascal ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 10:46:32 -0400 From: "Snow, Rick" Subject: Haven't bought IT yet! Dear fellow E-T'r's: Being 45 and wearing glasses (but without facial hair), I am, among other things, a fan of KC. And a subscriber to E-T (cheers to all involved--always a rollicking good time--but, then again, no one attacks my creative output!). Unfortunately, I--solely as a result of this newsletter--have YET to buy TCOL. So many people pouring out such bad feelings---yeow--didn't want to "waste" my money. I have put it on the "short list" for Father's Day gifts (it was either that or the socket wrench set). I do have the ProjeKcts' box and do thoroughly enjoy ProjeKct 3, so I have hopes that TCOL will be a rewarding experience. So many people have dismissed the new album as being derivative of other earlier KC work--but, hey, if you're going to copy someone, why not choose the best?! Sitting and waiting for me in my office mail this morning was the cd ABoneCroneDrone by Sheila Chandra (playing now--quite good, but I'm partial to drones). In the liner notes, she reflects, "If a piece of work is derivative, we know where it came from, we can spot the influences. But often, when someone comes up with something outlandish, instead of concentrating on the fact that, say, seventy percent of it is new and original, we tend to concentrate on the thirty percent of the structure that we do understand from the past. There is almost a resistance to experiencing new things in a vulnerable and fresh way. (Certainly musically I think we are hooked on familiarity.)" And, for my own 2 cents, I think that if I were sitting in front of someone who felt it necessary to yell out "Elephant Talk" when Adrian paused in a lyric, it would be my god-given right to turn around and pummel the living shit out of the asshole (quietly, however, so as not to disturb the energy flowing betwixt performer and audience). R Snow ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2000 10:39:52 -0500 From: Craig Subject: Bill Bruford`s Earthworks-All Heaven Broke Loose CD Hello there,ETers!! I`ve obtained this & determined it`s just not for me. I adore the 1st one, though. .........It was intriguing to learn it`s co-produced by David Torn. Anyways, I`ve decided to sell it so I thought I`d let y`all know. It`s in perfect shape, too. $9 + postage cost & it`s yours.......(first come basis) PRIVATE POST PLEASE. Thanks, ~Craig Shropshire PS: I have a few other things (CDs & LPs for sale/trade) as well, so if interested LMK. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 12:17:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Art Cohen Subject: Re: Ladies of the Road Fripp notes in his diary (more than once): >Once again, we note an increase in the female Crim audience. A very good indication, in my opinion, that TCoL is -- along with Lou Reed's "Metal Machine Music" -- an *extremely* sexy album. Barry White, look out! --Art PS: Fripp's recent analysis (in his diary) of the drumming in King Crimson is priceless! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2000 13:51:41 -0500 From: "William L. Howell" Subject: Review: PX "Heaven and Earth" Two of the little prickley things in the center of the case were already broken when I opened the PX "H&E". The case was not as high of quality as TCoL. Perhaps a gatefold could have aleviated the problem. -Bill ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 12:20:45 -0500 (CDT) From: flaherty michael w Subject: ProjeKct X As I've said here before, my opinon of TCOL is positive. But I now must add that I like H&E much more. Why? Good question, and I'm really not certain, but I believe it may be for similar reasons to my (and many others') preference for live KC over studio KC: because in PX, and indeed in all the earlier live ProjeKcts, the musicians are not trying to perfect something for the ages--whoever the ages are ;)--but are creating for the moment. (Yes, I am aware that some of the ProjeKct material is composed, but the playing is less formal.) It is the sound of spontaneous interplay among a small group of talented musicians. So ... does this mean I would have the six members of King Crimson continue to improvize in various forms without ever recording "authorative" versions of "songs"? Well, I guess it does. But don't worry, these guys aren't in the habit of consulting me on creative matters :-). That being said, I really do hope the rotating membership continues. There's so much more that can be accomplished without preconceived "rules". By the way, if you hated P3 and Pat's drums I don't THINK that you'll like H&E. If you like them, you'll PROBABLY at least like PX. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 16:07:18 EDT From: Boobird at aol dot com Subject: REVIEW: TCoL Dear Folks, In Minnesotan: "That's different!" Mark Newstrom Eagan, MN, USA ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 12:34:12 -0500 (CDT) From: flaherty michael w Subject: To Clarify (Nostagia) Timothy Wilcox made some good points regarding my recent posting on those who seem nostalgic for the past. I certainly didn't mean that everyone who dislikes the new cd or listens to old cds (Central Park '74 hasn't left my car player in weeks!) is simply beging nostalgic. That part of my post was aimed at those who dislike the new cd BECAUSE it doesn't sound like the old albums. We can listen to the past with new ears, but to wish the past was present can only lead to disappointment. By the way, my post was also not aimed at young listeners who are just discovering Crimson. Those listners are quite a bit more than 10 years younger than me. :-) Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2000 17:54:56 EDT From: "top jimmy" Subject: Chit-Chat, it's only talk... Does any ET reader know any other band that has a Collector's Club or something similiar? I thought this was an amazing idea and have been in it since its inception. I think some of the releases are amazing, while other's do not really tickle my fancy. With that stated, I am not sure why Crimson fans are so caught up in this tapers vs. boots. How many different versions of "Red" does one need to have in their collection? If Crimson changed the set list every night and played obscure or cover tunes, I could understand the interest and market demand for these shows. However, I think Mr. Fripp and company have done a solid job releasing shows from different lineups through this club in the past year and a half or so. I have only been a fan for about five years so I am not one to argue that "the older stuff is much better." I can say when I first listened to them I was thought the Wetton era was the best and the Belew era was a watered down 80's sounding band. I still listened to the Belew releases and they grew on me and now I consider the 80's and 90's material as amazing and recommend it to anybody into musicianship. The Crystal Ships and Wakes still go over my head though. I just do not get it. Sorry if I offend folks that consider that the essential listening. The stereotypical prog rocker is probably a gentlemen in his late 30's, early 40's with long hair and glasses who dismisses most bands as simple. The key word in that sentence is stereotypical. If we buy into stereotypes, we are just as silly as the one who began it. I look forward to receiving TCOL in the mail and thank both the positive and negative reviews posted on here. Hopefully the Crims will hit NYC soon and I will finally get to see them live. I leave you now and return to the land of Dinosaurs... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2000 15:21:51 PDT From: "Dan Ceo" Subject: Free Radio Prison City Last weekend my friend got his underground radio station, 95.9 FM, FIXX 96 WFRPC, up and running once again. Being one of the charter staff members of this station, I aired "ProzaKc Blues" in tribute to my great friend Prozac the Clown. I hope no one is offended by this in any way and I just wanted to let all of you know that I whole-heartedly support King Crimson on the air! So, save the music! Dan D. Lion ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 20:35:21 EDT From: NotoriousAWOL at aol dot com Subject: TCOL at last! My pre-ordered TCOL has finally arrived on 6/5! What are you guys talking about "Frying Pan" don't make it?!!? It's got one of those really cool monolithic chromatic thunder Fripp riffs he's contributed to guest spots throughout the years. In fact "Oyster Soup" now blasting out of my speakers for the first time, has its own cool purely Frippean Chromo run. In fact , it's presently occourring to me what a slammin' arpegiatin' downstrokin' fool the rockin' old man is. Now "L-IV" is in full assault. The spirit known as KC is entering me again. C'mon fellow fan site-ers, let's lose the personality worship and dig these truly cool guys blasting away. By the way, "Part IV" isn't a "reworking" "revamping" or anything else but an entirely new piece of music the title referring to the spirit of Crim and not the note sequence or rhythm. Fripp has slashed down across his strings in anger whenever Crim drove him. It's like a blessing, man. This band is going to be so incredible live. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 09:59:55 +0900 From: michael goodall Subject: RE: Bootlegging - read on!! Hi all, Finally, a post that is *funny* with a capital F. I wonder how many will respond with grave sincerity about the evil Miguel and his b**tlegging buddy. And it was much more enjoyable than seeing one ETer bash another for simply telling about his joyous encounter with the band in Copenhagen. michael ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2000 18:39:30 PDT From: "alexis rondeau" Subject: audience participation Hullo! Isn't audience participation what live performance is all about? There is usually nothing wrong with shouting something funny to the players if it can bring the performers to interact with the croud. So I suggest all ETers shout ELEPHANT TALK during Prozakc... from now on! After all, the guy who shouted 'four of a perfect group' at one point during the Abcent Lovers show didn't ruin KC's performance! Alx PS-cheers Macahan... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 23:44:14 -0400 From: "Tom X. Chao" Subject: Either Orchestra "Red" on WNYC 6/5/2000 The Either Orchestra's version of "Red" was played on WNYC's New Sounds program at about 11:27 pm on Monday, June 5. John Schaefer was presenting a program of (largely) acoustic versions of (largely) electronic pieces. The discographic info should be on the http://www.wnyc.org site in the New Sounds playlists section in a few days. By the way I have found TCoL disappointing, I am in favor of electronic drums, I wish Bruford was still in the band, and I believe it's okay to tape shows if not forbidden, but not if it's expressly prohibited. And, by God, I love Bill Nelson! Hang in there, Bill! You'll get the hang of computing soon! TXC ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2000 23:49:55 PDT From: "alejandro hoyos" Subject: Andy McCulloch I could not find the Lizard drummer anywhere else but on Lizard. Since he is not on the "former KC members" question from the FAQ, I am asking you (you seem the only hope) to tell me where else I can hear him play, or what has he been involved with since Lizard. Thank you. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 11:26:40 CEST From: "Macahan The Unifaun" Subject: Thanks (including the Frippification theory) + re: possible answers Hello all! I have recieved lots and lots of mails from ETers the latest days who have written encouragingly about my reaction to Peters criticism of my behaviour at and post about the first Copenhagen show, or giving construKctive criticism. I realize that there is a lot of warmth on ET as well, but it should show more often on the list. I am speculating here, but I think that some or many Crimson fans (including myself) and ETers may have been Frippified. That is, when you in amazement and interest over mr. Fripps own and unimitatable style, are influenced by it and try to imitate it, partly or fully. It may be a good thing to improve your language, strive to make the appropriate and correct desicions more often and act more like a true gentleman. But the obvious risk is that when mr. Fripp naturally has developped into the person he is, with his gentlemanhood, his tactfulness, his cleverness, his life philisophies, his ability to express himself very accurately and elegantly, his firmness about his opinions and everything, the fan that is enthralled by it probably has no natural cause to be like mr. Fripp is. There's no substance behind the actions. So, expressing yourself in snobby ways and saying things that seem clever and in congruence with the unspoken ET high-cleverness-factor-rule, may cause you to write things you don't meen from the bottom of your heart. I have experienced that myself, and I am in no way perfect, but I plead to all ETers to show some more caring, understading and familiarity on this list before posting your initial and hars reactions to something that may seem inappropriate to you. This is not to say that we need to adore every ETer and agree with everything anyone says, but that we should respect every ETer and never judge anyone too quickly, if we should judge anyone at all. Shortly, don't try to be smart-asses or think you're the most clever persons in the world unless you are able to show respect and understanding, and perhaps even love, to other people. I feel that mr. Fripp is clever, and that he knows it, but also that he shows respect and understanding to other people. Gosh, I'm starting to feel like a love apostle. Better move on. I may soon seem to be controlled by my heart instead of my brain. Horrible thought... And on ET of all places. >He mentioned how he went to a KC concert in 73 (?) when he was 1X years >old, >and what a stunning experience that was, and the amazement over the thought >of him being in the band today. Well, now I went to a concert in 99 when I >am 20 years old and thought that it was a stunning experience, which >implies... Oh well. ;) Doh! "I went to a concert in 99..." Sorry, my synapses were taking a rest at the time. And I'm "living in the past" as well. You do make silly mistakes sometimes. Of course, of course, of COURSE I was going to write that I went to a concert in 2001! And finally, to show that I do care about ETers, I have contributed to the ET tab site with a quite complete ProzaKc Blues tab (not including me shouting "Elephant Talk" though...). It will appear online eventually. When tabbing this I realized how groovy the interlocking guitar pattern Adrian (?) plays are. A shame I didn't know at the concert. My advise to concert goers is for you to try to catch as many details in the latest record as possible, to raise the recognition factor at the performance. /Macahan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 08:33:34 -0400 From: "David Cohen" Subject: Cassette of New album Quite disappointed about the lack of a Kcassette version of the new album. I may be part of the 10% of buyers still purchasing cassettes, but since this was a Virgin release, I expected to see it on cassette. Looks like the record industry succeeded in getting all of us to buy the more-expensive CD format. They were smart - they got into our heads early on that CD are non-destructible. And we know how untrue that is. Now it's simply blackmail - I have no choice but to buy the CD. David Cohen P.S. - smoking should be banned at ALL shows. Smokers should be escorted out with no refund. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 14:59:20 +0200 From: Stephane Berland Subject: P or K ? >'Someone' wrote in 'some' issue of ET : (sorry, couln't find it) > Should I put my ProjeKt CD's at P or K???? Put them at P ! And put your King Crimson albums at K, K', K'', K''', etc. I think the strong passionate reactions to TCoL are merely due to the fact that KC can't be approached like any other band, with a continuing career and activity. King Crimson is several bands. That, I'm sure of. OK it's one spirit, one way of doing things, one particular focus, and some sort of continuity/coherence, etc. BUT : - My father cannot listen to anything prior to 1981 (which he's not fond of, he definitely prefers the post VROOOM period), and he'll go to the Paris show with me. - My best friend is not really interested in anything that was recorded before 1972 or after 1974. - One of my guitar teacher always told me he couldn't listen to any other KC records than ITCOTCK and ITWOP (!!!???). Weird guy, after all, but it serves my point. - My girlfriend simply hates KC (my cats feel the same, to be honest), but find Projeckts interesting and even entertaining at times (here, the cats don't follow). - I spend a lot of time listening to KC music but the choice of a record is always period-related. I can listen to 69-71 lineup for weeks without putting a more recent release on the turntable, then stop, choose a Projeckt CD and listen to Projeckts for some time, then Bill Frisell, Varese or anything else, and forward to 81-84 lineup, but always in disconnected periods of time. At times the first records just bore me, and at times, I simply can't live without them. Same for all lineups. I couldn't listen to the Discipline era recordings for a long time after the release of Thrak. It's often playing in my car these days. WE ALL LOVE KING CRIMSON, only not the same !!... It's a way (yes, a personal way) of approaching KC music, but I'm a happy listener because I listen to different King Crimsons, at different times. And I think all these bands deserve respect and attentive ears, especially (I couldn't resist) Pat Mastelloto in the last ones. This guy is one hell of a drummer. We have to applaude what he brings to King Crimson. Don't spend too much time crying about the (non-definitive) loss of Bill Bruford and Tony Levin. During their absence, go buy the wonderful records they do with various musicians (Earthworks is awesome, BLUE is great, LIQUID TENSION is an 'experiment' and very entertaining) and don't forget to thank Adrian, Robert, Trey and Pat for delivering such excellent music to our ears. Cheers, and sorry for both the length of this post and my english. -- Stephane Berland Limours, France sberland at infoflash dot fr ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #688 ********************************