Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #686 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 686 Saturday, 3 June 2000 Today's Topics: A Personal Review of FraKctured/TCOL Lack of Muir Re: Unapropiate behaviour King Crimson fan & ETer... We're bootlegging the next show!!! READ ON!!! Re: Actual incident TCOL an excellent record The LAST of the Bootlegging Debate The Sheriff of Also-Ran (or, The Ying/Yang of Reason) Re: The Ying/Yang of taping T Levin on P Gabriel OVO Random Thoughts TCOL/Heaven And Earth/THRAK and other thoughts Re: Frying Pan's origin and "changing sound perspective" re: discipline and perfect pair's original mixes TCoL Re: Fripp/Python Re: Crimson covers subject: compiling & questions Review: TCOL LTiA & Fracture/FraKctured TCol/Social Commentary The power of the name "King Crimson" Flatulence Effects Audient Contribution Re: An insignificant little thought.. Re: Bootlegging (part 3) vs. Taping ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 18:24:15 -0500 From: MRussell at deltacg dot com Subject: A Personal Review of FraKctured/TCOL Something unusual happened during my first listen to FraKctured on Tuesday the 23rd. As I listened, I found that some of the sonic vocabulary was so strongly reminiscent of 1974 that it elicited viscerally strong memories of the time. I recalled with sudden clarity how that summer smelled, what the atmosphere in the rooms I was living in at the time was like and how I perceived things with a sensory apparatus 26 years younger than it is now. Occasionally I find that certain pieces of music will unlock memories with extraordinary detail in this way?a pleasant experience of (re)discovery. As the piece continued, 1974 swirled away and was replaced by the sensation of another series of memories of great clarity which were not my own. This sensation passed with the completion of the music. A unique gift, for which I am grateful. Two more mundane observations: First, Trey Gunn really gets the chance to shine in this band: His fretwork on the title track is a joy. Second, the album sounds better to me at lower volume on speakers across the room; on headphones, I am too close to take it all in. Mike Russell mrussell at deltacg dot com www.anguscollie.com ------------------------------ Date: 1 Jun 2000 23:38:17 -0000 From: "Al Ballentyne" Subject: Lack of Muir Firstly in my previous post about Fripp's guitar sound note that i spelled fripp with one p (frip) and it makes me look silly amongst the rest of the crimheads on here. But the point of my post being, I think the king crimson collectors club is a fantastic idea, but can all of us afford the high fee for joining? I know it works out to your 6 CD purchases, but for the rest of us who can't really afford to fork out #78 for the 6 release membership, why can we not get the re-mastered live gigs of the old line ups (and more recent ones). The Nightwatch and Epitaph (vol 1&2) are fantastic albums, but it would be better to see more releases of the concerts from older lineups, even studio sessions would be fine. For instance the mainstream releases are highly lacking live material. So when will we see more live albums from previous years? If anyone thinks i am a loon who doesn't know what i'm on about you can reply to me at: acid_mirror at budweiser dot com But I think that my views are not out of line, even though i have high regard for Robert Fripp's music. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 02:00:11 CEST From: "Macahan The Unifaun" Subject: Re: Unapropiate behaviour King Crimson fan & ETer... Hello Peter and all! I realise you at least read some of my post about my thoughts from the European tour premiere, and that it evoked some thoughts to you. I'm glad you read it, and that it did cause some discussion. Without at all accusing you Peter for anything, I must first say I feel that ET is a very cold place to be. I feel quite sad to see that there isn't any total freedom of speech (though I certainly understand why there is some rules, and deeply appreciate your work with the list, Toby), and that much criticism often is shoved over those who try to honestly explain their feelings, thoughts and opinions about any subject. Why isn't there any familiarity on this list? Perhaps KC fans are too intellectual and clever to appreciate a silly but honest word from a "lesser" human. I happen to love structured ramblings with a humouristic touch, which is why I wrote the long post I did. It's simply me, but perhaps I'm not fitting into this list. I have felt that many times before and more so now. But please don't let this stop you from posting criticism to ET, whether it is about TCOL or me. Criticism makes us realize what needs change, but I don't really feel that I need to change anything. > >When looking behind me to see the crowd of listeners/audients, I could > >tell that they were rocked by KC. It wasnt a bunch of 30-45 year old >cold, > >intellectual overclass men with glasses, rulers, and a Hawkings book >under > >the arm, standing still and counting the beats and analysing the chord > >structures that I saw. > >((I hope that in the future you express yourself better about your >elders.)) I apologize if anyone was hurt by this. It was definitely not my purpose. It was simply my ironically meant description of the associations I get when I try to think of a "typical" extreme KC fan. Perhaps I'm alone in associating the way I do. I'm honestly sorry if the irony didn't get through. > >. During ProzaKc Blues I simply couldnt resist plugging this lovely, > >stormy and always interesting forum by shouting "ELEPHANT TALK" just when > >Belew was pausing a second after "youve been reading to much". Man, I am > >looking forward to hear the bootlegtv.com recording and see if its heard > >properly. Belew heard it, it seamed, and if he did, he took it with the > >irony I thought he would. > >((So, ruining their performance of Prozakc Blues is your idea of fun...)) Come on Peter, try to see the fun of it. There is a two-way communication between the band and the audience. I made that very clear by shouting ET out. Perhaps I am alone to think it was funny, and once again I am honestly sorry if everybody else thought it was immature. If nobody else found it funny I regret I shouted it, but if at least someone agrees with me that it was spot-on, I am very happy I did it. I don't think it ruined the performance. I rather think it added to it by giving some feedback to KC, by proofing that someone knew enough of the lyrics of the new album and about the mailing list to shout it to them. I personally hope the a few more ETers found it appropriate to shout it out. > >Anyway, after the show, they interviewed me and my brother outside the > >venue. It was great fun, and I cant help laughing out loud, when I > >think of my brothers remark that "after Beat, I lost Thrak of them". I >found > >it utterly funny, but the twist seamed to pass the bootlegtv crew by. > >((I hope they post the concert so we can see how cool you look!!)) They probably will, but looking cool is not at all the point. Why on earth do you make such a bitter comment, Peter? I enjoyed being interviewed but hey, just skip the interview if it's on the final product and already dislike me. Why does it seem that non-top-intelligent humour is banned on ET? I love to express myself with double-bottomed words and tongue-in-cheek-jokes, but if nobody appreciates it, I'll simply not post so much humour to ET. > >He (Fripp) was quite concentrated on playing and communicating with the > >other band members during the show, but after it he looked out over the > >crowd to see what kinds of people we were, I guess. In a desperate >attempt > >to catch his attention I then instinctively jumped and waved a bit. I >got > >the feeling he saw it in the corner of an eye, and avoided me, thinking >it > >was inappropriate behaviour. Well, what had > >I expected ;) > >((Thank God you realized yourself that is no way to behave at a KC >Concert)) For once I agree with you here Peter. It WAS inappropriate behaviour but I let my feelings control myself instead of my mind for once. I really don't blame myself for acting the way I did, nor am I ashamed of it. I'm just a young student who happen to be deeply moved by KC music and truly appreciate Robert Fripps work, and when hope about being seen by Robert himself arose I couldn't stop myself from trying to catch his attention. Inappropriate, yes, but don't we all do inappropriate things sometimes? > >Ah,Im a naive fan I guess > >((I will not mention what kind of fan you are, only that no band in the >world needs fans like that. )) That hurt, Peter. I am not sure that KC themselves agree with you here. I find this comment to be very offensive. Perhaps I'm not as "mature" as many other persons around. On the other hand I happen to be very satisfied with the life I live and the person I am but am always open for comments or criticism about me. I don't think KC are striving only to get the most Fripp-like fans, that is strict gentlemen, never doing inappropriate things. Fripp himself has stated that he would like to see more young people and women on the concerts. Not that my adolescence should merit me to be a more valued fan of the KCs, but I do think that the KC fan base should be allowed to be made up by ANYONE who happen to love KC music, regardless if you're clever, stupid, a gentleman, a turd, young or old. Perhaps I am wrong and Belew, Fripp, Gunn and Mastelotto would rather have not seen me attend the concert and bought their records. But I got the feeling that mr. Mastelotto, contrary to how I regard you, Peter, was a very caring and nice man who was open to hear other peoples honest opinions and judge them without prejudice. >((By the way shorter postings are appreciated)) If I wouldn't be hurt by you right now, I would have made an ironic comment here... You imagine that one yourselves. If irony and humour and essay-lenghty posts shouldn't be allowed on ET, please say so, and I'll stop posting and just read the digests. My view on fan mailing lists is that such posts is exactly what raises the value about it. I gave my honest opinions, showed every thought I had in a personal way, but if it wasn't appreciated, just let me know. I deeply hope you don't represent the majority of the ETers, Peter, but please respond to this if you have anything to object against. Sincerely, Macahan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 20:23:51 -0400 (CLT) From: "Miguel Farah F." Subject: We're bootlegging the next show!!! READ ON!!! Hey, d00ds! A friend of mine is a bootlegger and he is going to TAPE THE NEXT KING CRIMSON SHOW! And better than that, he has an extra ticket and INVITED ME!!!!! I only have to help him bring the equipment, and then I'm off to see the band! C00L, isn't it? BTW, do you guys know how early we have to arrive, so we can get a soundboard feed without having to fight it with other bootleggers like us? During the show, I intend to take a lot of photographs, so I can (later) watch them while I hear the bootleg and make-believe I'm there again. I got this great camera and a GREAT NEW FLASH that eliminates the red eye problem (I bought it for this very ocasion). I'll take SUCH C00L photos of Robert Fripp... BTW, I think it would be a good idea to make copies of all the pictures I take, and send them to Fripp on his birthday [*]. maybe he'll be so grateful I'll get a compliment from him on his diary! Wouldn't it be c00l? [*] What is his birthday? Does anyone know the date? I wish this kind of information was collected into a file or something that was readily available for anyone to look up when needed... I heard a friend of a friend of this bootlegger I mentioned earlier saying something that Bill Bruford is NOT with King Crimson anymore?!?! I think he's teasing me, but what if he's not? Does anyone of you know the truth? If it is true, then I think King Crimson would really have no future... come, it's BRUFORD! He's been the drummer since ISLANDS, hasn't he? Hell, the only worse thing I think it could happen is that the band lost Tony Levin too! That would be terrible!!!! He also lent me a CD-R copy of the newest album, "The ConstruKction of Light" [sic] (he's a good friend of mine, I love him, but his spelling skills are terrible). I heard it one time (like I need to listen to an album more than once to have an opinion), and IT ROYALLY SUCKS!!!!!!!!!! Boy, what a TERRIBLE album!!!!! The worst thing has got to be the singer for that first song! I mean, Belew is good, so why use someone else?!?! What was Fripp thinking? And the drums SUCK, TOO!!!! What is Bruford thinking? Is this a joke? (ain't funny, Bill) Now I have to hope that the show I'll be attending they'll stick to the older songs and albums. In last issue, Toby said: << This would be a big help to everyone. >> Yeah, like we NEED to be told how to post an article here... don't you dare censor me, Toby! If you do, I'll have my lawyers sue you! P.S.: I heard something about Elton John being a former member of King Crimson? Can anyone tell me if this is true? I wish this kind of information was collected into a file or something that was readily available for anyone to look up when needed... -- MIGUEL FARAH // miguel at webhost dot cl #include // http://www.webhost.cl/~miguel <*> "Trust me - I know what I'm doing." - Sledge Hammer ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 20:55:04 -0400 From: "Jim McLaughlin" Subject: Re: Actual incident > Actual incident: > > I'm at a stop light in my town. I've got Lark's IV turned up...they can't help > but hear it.... > > Girl: what's that music? > Me: King Crimson! > Girl: that stuff rocks! Actual incident: I'm in my living room playing the VHS tape Live in Japan. Sartori in Tangier through the Bose 901's, Fripp wailing away towards the end of the song. My stepson (17) and some freinds walk through and dead stop stare at the screen. At the end, I quote a girl (16) "Wow, he can really jam!" Stating the obvious? Jim ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 18:12:23 -0700 From: aronin Subject: TCOL an excellent record I've followed King Crimson since 1969 and in my judgment TCOL stands with the best of their work. Belew's lyrics are thoughtful and interesting, the music is dense and rhythmic and its enjoyable to hear the modification and development of older compositions, Fractured and Larks Tongues. I dont know what more a true fan could ask for---there's fast propulsive guitar work, interesting bass counterpoints and solid percussion. Its a pleasure to have the band in strong form. And as a mental health worker, i appreciated a song about psych medication. Yours, Ira ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 21:35:29 EDT From: Beatlsherm at aol dot com Subject: The LAST of the Bootlegging Debate Greetings- One (or many, as it seems) could go on for millenia without resolving the bootlegging/taping debate. Both sides have their comments, their issues, their points. One can see persuasive arguments on both sides and in between. This will not be settled by argument, nor by a coin toss. It has been, in my opinion, respectfully requested myriad times by the creators of the music to refrain from this activity. As much as I would love to have every concert for my personal aural pleasure, I must respect this. And will. Enough on this..... Best wishes, Sherm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 22:32:43 EDT From: Ctao at aol dot com Subject: The Sheriff of Also-Ran (or, The Ying/Yang of Reason) More rantings from the "feel good" faction, this time by Andrew Fignar, Jr., who sees himself as a sort of Ranger Rick for Taper/Artist relations, and Protector of The Zappa Family Trust. An admirable gig, to be sure, but why the following ill-logic? Things always break down pretty quickly when the emotional would steer the reasonable in such characters. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 00:04:19 -0500 From: "Loren W. Claypool" Subject: Re: The Ying/Yang of taping >I want to do all I can to please the band, I just wish they felt that way >about me. I'm sorry but I don't see how the band would lose anything, >only gain in my opinion by allowing taping. The key point here is that it doesn't matter what your opinion, or my opinion, is. The intellectual property belongs to King Crimson and its members. They have stated clearly their position on taping, fully aware of the positives and any negatives that their position entails. I understand the difference between tapers and bootleggers as the poster described. KC understands the difference. Their decision to not support taping covers both. The distinction therefore is no longer relevant to the dialogue. Two of my favorite active artists are Mike Keneally and KC. Robert quoted Mike's policy in his diary entry a few days ago and, as Mike fans know, Mike's policy is quite different. Great! Mike's music is Mike's intellectual property and he has made different choices. It is Mike's right to support taping, just as it is KC's right not to. If KC's decision has a negative impact on the business of KC, as the poster suggested, then that is a business decision they have the right to make and, if necessary, they have the right to suffer the consequences. But let's see, 30 years in the business, how bad could their decision making be? Loren www.theclaypools.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 15:02:03 +0900 From: michael goodall Subject: T Levin on P Gabriel OVO Hi all You can llisten to what T Levin has been doing with PG at this site: http://eden.vmg.co.uk/petergabriel.html Prepare for buffering, tho. Michael ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 10:32:40 +0300 From: "Piia & Jari Schroderus" Subject: Random Thoughts For the past two months I've been listening almost nothing else but KC material. The ProjeKct 3 brings tears to my eyes... Well parts of it does, the rest just freaks me out! When I got TCoL, I remembered Mastelotto's words in the P3 notes: Keep the improvisation going and put your CD-player on random. That's what I did wit TCoL and something interesting happened. I think I found out the reason why Larks' IV and TCoL are cut into tracks and maybe why the acoustic version of "I Have a Dream" was dropped out. On random an acoustics song would not work in between this mayhem. My CD-player just jumped from the first section of Larks' IV into TCoL's first part. And it works! And thanks to Max for the idea about using the 3D-option on the Sound Blaster! And thanks to Toby for keeping ET going and going and... I hope my ramblings in this foreign language are understandable. Jari Schroderus Check out my music on our web site The Glimpse at http://www.kolumbus.fi/piia.jari.schroderus ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 11:25:31 +0200 From: masse at geocean dot u-bordeaux dot fr (Laurent MASSE) Subject: TCOL/Heaven And Earth/THRAK and other thoughts I've been living with TCOL/H&E for almost one month now, and some things have struck me recently. TCOL has not left my car player since I bought it. All the songs are printed in my head, I cannot listen to anything else, but strangely I still don't know if I like it. I probably need to leave it for a while (please XTC's Wasp Star arrive in my mailbox!!!) and then come back to it. For the moment, except for "ProzakC", my appreciation for each song has changed A LOT with time. CoL and FraKctured are definitely very high on my all-time favourite KC song list, Frying Pan is fun, LTIA4 starts to grow on me, but I definitely can't find anything worth in Oyster Soup. I don't know, it's just too... random, and the piano-guitar at the end is probably the worse in it (my opinion, OK?). PX's Demolition is actually better! H&E: after repeated and concentrated listenings, my first impression of excitement for something totally new rapidly faded when I couldn't find anything else in it than just dynamic-less randomly sampled distorted guitar noise over sampled rhythms and conversation fragments. OK, this is caricatural. The production is excellent, H&E is good (but it's the one written piece on this CD - read Trey's recording diary), the first minute of "Overhead floor.." is achingly beautiful (actually more than anything on TCOL - which may be the main problem most of us have with this album: the lack of totally gut-wrenching, moving moments like this on it), but the rest? P3 was full of poignant dynamics, light and dark, calmly or violently menacing, but H&E sounds too patchy and linear (if such is possible). To me, AND for the moment (again, please XTC's Wasp Star arrive in my mailbox!!!), this is the less inteersting of the ProjeKcts to date. The general consensus on TCol seems to be strong material but muddy production, my opinion on H&E is very good production but almost no material (don't know about others, still very few opinions in ET). So what about a Munyon/Mastelotto re-read of TCoL? Something else I realised recently. When THRAK first came out, I found it very backwards looking, although, apart from VROOOM, nothing really quoted previous material. And the small interludes (Inner Garden, Radio) disturbed me although they were pleasant on their own, but the album was not monolithic enough. Now that TCOL is here, there are much more obvious quotations of earlier material, musically and lyrically (this is the point, Daniel Pepper, contrary to 90% of the THRAK material, NOBODY would believe FraKctured is by an unknown group called "hgdsfltuihejkfa"!!!!), but strangely this does not sound backwards looking to me. And I miss small interludes lightening up the whole thing. SO WHAT HAPPENS??? WHERE AM I??? How can first reactions posted on ET be considered definitive statements??? And finally, something totally unrelated: in the second verse of Thela Hun Ginjeet on the forthcoming Moles Club release, Adrian sings "Your house...my house...your house...my house". Anybody remember? ___ Laurent Masse masse at geocean dot u-bordeaux dot fr ___ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 11:55:50 +0200 From: masse at geocean dot u-bordeaux dot fr (Laurent MASSE) Subject: Re: Frying Pan's origin and "changing sound perspective" >Does anyone know why Tony Levin isn't credited among the authors of "Into >the frying pan" ? I wonder so 'cause its instrumental main theme is a >clear derivation from "ProjeKction" in the ProjeKct Four album West Coast >Live (that was written by Fripp-Gunn-Levin-Mastellotto). The main theme of ProjeKction was derived from Contrary ConstruKction by Fripp-Gunn-Belew, and the contrary guitar riff is to be found in one of P1's improvs (can't remember the title!) by Levin-Bruford-Gunn-Fripp. So this particular motif is to be credited to Fripp-Gunn. And, BTW, Holst was not credited on Devil's Triangle, Lake/McDonald/Giles were not credited on Pictures and The Letters, but Radio I and II were credited to Bruford-Levin-Fripp-Gunn-Belew-Mastelotto. I don't think there is any logic to be found in all of this. The important thing is, pragmatically, who gets the money. >Let's say there was a band. And in this band was Trey Gunn, Pat Mastelotto, >Adrian Belew and Robert Fripp. And this band wasn't called King Crimson. >Instead, it's name was. . . oh, I don't know. . . how about "Elephant >Talk." And let's say this band released "The ConstruKction of Light." > >Would those of you that hate it still hate it? Everybody would complain this should have been called King Crimson. ___ Laurent Masse masse at geocean dot u-bordeaux dot fr ___ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 14:12:29 +0100 From: Peter Clinch

Subject: re: discipline and perfect pair's original mixes In ET#685 Donovan Mayne-Nicholls wondered: > Then, what about DISCIPLINE and THREE OF A PERFECT PAIR. Since Fripp > replaced the originally released remixes of MATTE KUDASAI and SLEEPLESS > for the original mixes, it has become impossible to get the album on CD > as it was first released. I've read several times in this page how much > people miss those two tracks and I reckon this would be the propitious > moment to do so. I was coincidentally thinking about this last week (though I haven't heard the original Sleepless, thinking only about MK which I have in both forms). My favoured solution would be to include the alternatives as bonus tracks, since you've got a good half an hour spare time on either disc to play with in any case. As to which should be the bonus and which the "real" track, not really bothered: that's what track programming's for if you're really worried one way or another, and anyone would be free to choose their own favourite. Pete. -- Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net p dot j dot clinch at dundee dot ac dot uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 17:22:33 +0100 From: "Simon Brader" Subject: TCoL Hi, I've never approached an album with such trepidation. After the awesome ProjeKcts box I was so looking forward to hearing TCoL yet the barrage of negative opinions that have been submitted really made me wonder; could they all be wrong? The Web ring didn't really help one way or another. My computer is not the way to listen to KC. It needs a good system and VOLUME! So in I plunged: The short review: This is fantastic, astonishing music. The ConstuKction of Light may well be King Crimson's greatest ( studio) album to date. The longer response to the naysayers and some other thoughts that struck me: First, make no final decision until, as I said above, you hear this through a good system. Second, read the diary notes as you listen. There is one hell of a lot going on within each track on TCoL; the notes are a superb guide. Third, to those who have been slamming Pat (in particular), remember the Double-Duo philosophy in play here. P & T are not 'supporting' R & A in any conventional sense for a lot of the time, they are complimenting them, fighting them, being supported BY them. Fourth, forget comparisons with previous incarnations. Don't listen for them. If you hear traces, it is hardly surprising but don't cloud your vision (or whatever the analogy for hearing is) by seeking them out. This is the King Crimson of 2000. An opinion that says 'I don't like the music they are making now' is fine. One that says 'They are crap because they aren't making the music I want them to make' is simply closed mindedness. Track by track the highlights are endless. ProzaKc Blues rocks like a bastard (although I've been driving myself mad trying to think what it reminds me, very strongly, of.) FraKtured and Lark's IV are just astonishing. I had tears in my eyes on several occasions during them. Reading Fripp's diary notes about the recording of his guitar parts for Lark's and simultaneously hearing the work is an incredible joy. As he says, it makes Larks II sound like a lullaby! There simply isn't a weak track on the album, including the wonderful Project X piece. My one complaint is that I think Trey's bass work could be a bit 'sharper' or more forward in the mix. The Crimson King is most definitely wearing new clothes. They look good. They fit him well. Go well, Simon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 12:50:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Art Cohen Subject: Re: Fripp/Python >Did Robert ever work with Python-connected musicians such as Ray Cooper, >George Harrison and Neil Innes (the latter was onstage in London with Yo >La Tengo the other month, odd for a former Bonzo...)? Oh, yeah! Neil Innes! Fripp -> Ian Wallace -> Neil Innes/Bonzos -> Rutles -> Eric Idle Ouch! Ouch! Ouch! --Art ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 13:08:56 -0400 From: "John Ott" Subject: Re: Crimson covers >Of course the encoring with Bowie's "Heroes" was amazing. Is it me or is >the first time Crimson has covered someone else's material? Not even close, the Original '69 Crimson covered Donovan's "Get thy Bearings" and also Holst with "Mars" from the Planets Suites. Nothing new about Crimson doing covers. later John ------------------------------ Date: 2 Jun 00 11:19:02 MDT From: claus dot poulsen at usa dot net Subject: subject: compiling & questions Some issues ago, "I had a dream" about compiling the facts we find out during these discussions. Yes, Toby, I have read the FAQ - nothing there I didn't already know! It is possible to "concentrate" all the relevant facts in the postings and organise them. We would then - together - build a massive body of information. Consider this: one of us knows something important. He posts it to ET to let the rest of us know. But it doesn't get to anyone who doesn't read that specific issue. Let's keep track of what we know! Imagine how much we will know in a year or two! (or even 5 or 10). So my idea goes far beyond the FAQ. For example, there could be a "TCOL" file, which would slowly grow (containing, amongst other: - It was recorded fall 1999 at AB's studio in Nashville - The vocals on ProzaKc is Adrian's voice pitched down electronically - Everybody else thought Fripp was practising "Fracture" when he wrote "Larks' V" - thus he renamied it "FraKctured". - It got a mixed reception among Crimson-fans. Most people liked the disc a lot, but had reservations about the electronic drum sound. Some thought it was the worst KC ever.) ..... or something like that (and we could add to our AdrianBelew-file that he is allergic to smoke). What dou you think? Is anybody crazy enough to do this? I think it would be wonderfull. Also, I have other questions on my mind: I Does anyone kow Pat's thoughts - what does he feel about the expectations put to him? - does he ever get tired of those goddam plastic drums (hints in the P3 booklet)? - and how does it feel to become a member of his favourite band? II Why is both Fripp and Gunn on all ProjeKcts? is Fripp forcing Gunn into Crimson (it seems so to me)? III Should I put my ProjeKCt CD's at P or K???? IIII What happened to "the world's unluckiest drummer" Jerry Marotta - as far as I know he was supposed to play with the double trio before Bruford and Mastelotto? does anyone know the story? IIIII Just got Steve Reich's "Drumming". It was written and performed in 1971, and the last half of "Drumming part III" sounds pretty much like the intro to Larks' tongues part I - coincidence, synchronicity or.......? any comments? Maybe Muir checked out Reich? Well, that's 12 questions in one post, but you're the experts, aren't you? (oops, there is another one) Best Regards, Kclaus ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 10:32:59 -0700 From: "Michael Britt" Subject: Review: TCOL ProzaKc Blues: I don't know if this is intended to be funny or not, but hey, it's funny. Only thing I have to say, is if I was showing someone new to KC this CD, I would skip this track and go back to it later. It's a good song and all, but in no way should this be the first thing someone listens to when they are first exposed to the greatest band ever. TCOL: Wow.. I like Pat! What's all this fuss over "fake" drums? Sure, they DONT sound like real drums, but I don't think that was Pat's intention. He's playing really difficult stuff, and it sounds good too. You'll get used to it. During the dawn of the double trio I was a small fry learning to play guitar while listening to NIRVANA and who else. When I was first exposed to Garbage when exiting 8th grade I HATED IT. HATED It with a BURNING PASSION just because I couldn't stand the sound of electronic drums. I thought it was the worst thing you could ever do, but after a while I got used to it and learned to like it. How some stupid nirvana fan grows up and listens to KC 5 years later is a very good story but doesnt belong here. And even when our guitar heroes are doing their so called "finger-exercises" The first thing that comes to mind is, no not the idea that it sounds like finger excersises, and no, not "hey! He's got upbeats, he's got downbeats!" or anything remotley musikcal theory-related... The first thought entering my head is "Hey that sounds pretty!" Keep in mind that the way it sounds is the most important part of music. Some argue (not me) that it's THE ONLY important part of music. Its also very fun to listen to Trey here. Then comes 3:09, and no my head is bobbing, They got a good grove going on... Yes I think Crimson without Buford and Levin is possible! I've noticed that qin the first 4 or 5 minutes of this song, (I'm not sure if it's intentional or not) but here and there they'll hint at previous songs, like TOAPP or Discipline and Larks III and what else. This is really really impressive. This is Discipline x 10. I doubt very much I'll get bored with this anytime soon. Enter the vocals! This is very fun to listen to with surround sound! I like the idea of splitting it into 2 tracks. Some days I'm in the car and all I want to do is sing, so I like skipping to the vocals. (I do this to Frame by Frame sometimes. I know it's terrible that one would do such a thing but Adrian's voice is 'very special' and is the reason why I actually listen to KC songs that arent instrumental. [when I listen to Dream Theater or Rush I listen to ONLY the instrumental portions of songs]) And if God is dead... Response to Lennon? Ok so now the Die, Beauty, Light part is over and in is [what I think is the verse]. Suddenly I have a new favourite song. It's similar to TOAPP but doesn't have the cheesy 80's sound to it, it's like Frame by Frame but more complicated. Much more to listen to. I've listened to this track about 20 times since buying it yesterday and I hear something new every time. Is this 6/8 and then 4/8 and repeat? Nothing wrong with saying Penis in a KC song. I always wanted a song that was as difficult as Discipline but with more melodic content and a vocal line. This song alone is worth the $13.99 I paid for the CD. I'm not going to listen to any of the other tracks until I get bored with the title track. I did this with the Discipline album and Tool's AEnima and I didn't put either of them down for 2 years. I refuse to listen to FraKctured until I can effortlessly play Fracture. Almost there! Mike http://mp3.com/duophone It's Free, Easy, & Fun !!! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 19:03:44 +0100 From: mph2 Subject: LTiA & Fracture/FraKctured I think some of the non-musos who post here are a little in the dark as to why the series LTiA I-IV should have the same name, ditto as regards Fracture and FraKctured, given the number of posts saying LTiA IV or FraKctured 'sounds more like Red/Vrooom/etc.' If I understand correctly the reason why Fripp and the other members of KC should spot a family resemblance and dub the songs accordingly, it's merely due to a recurring three/four-note guitar figure/motif in each. All the four LTiA's contain the figure: 1st-5th-diminished 2nd and both Fra(K)cture(d)'s contain the figure: diminished 5th-2nd-1st-2nd(-"minor" 6th-2nd-1st-2nd). It's as simple as that, really. A motif from one song can of course recur in a context that sounds in terms of arrangement, selection of timbres, tempi, etc., much more a like another song. Hope that makes sense. Slainte mhath, Harvey the invisible rabbit. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 14:47:45 -0400 From: David Vella Subject: TCol/Social Commentary Dear Crimson FanatiKcs, Here is a little Zen Koan for TCoL: "TCoL has spawned a stale-chalk elephant diatribe, Chit-chat in the Guestbook, Criticisms in ET, No bone-globe snared truth, each the opposite of the previous, I Have a Dream - that I, too, may post my sycophantic double-talk, But though I listen to the wind, the wind does not rock." from a fellow Crimsomaniac who is slightly miffed that I pre-ordered this baby weeks ago, along with the PX CD, and have not received either yet, despite seeing TCoL in stores all around me.....(sorry for violating the koan form with the final rhymo)... Since I cannot further add to the TCoL commentary cacophony, I search for another ET post I can respond to.....here's one: In ET 685, "g" writes: > isn't current social commentary something they've always avoided? well, IMO, only if you never heard the following KC tunes: 21st Century Schizoid Man, Epitaph, Pictures of a City, Cat Food, Happy Family, The Great Deceiver, Fallen Angel, Thela Hun Ginjeet, Neurotica, Cage, and I Have a Dream. Include The Night Watch if the commentary needn't be current, and include Industry if it needn't be verbal. (I'm just doing this off the top of my head, so I'm sure I'm missing a few tunes....) Yours Crimly, David -- ==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==* David C. Vella Office: Harder Hall 219 Associate Professor of Mathematics 518-580-5291 Skidmore College dvella at skidmore dot edu Saratoga Springs, NY 12866 Home: 518-587-5363 web-page: http://www.skidmore.edu/~dvella/dcvbio1.htm ==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==* `I prove a theorem and the house expands, the windows jerk free to hover near the ceiling, the ceiling floats away with a sigh.' -Rita Dove US Poet Laureate (1993) 'Those who dream by day are cognizant of many things that escape those who dream only at night' -Edgar Allan Poe ==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==* ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 00:19:30 +0200 From: Piotr Zlotkowski Subject: The power of the name "King Crimson" Daniel Pepper wrote: > I have one question for u...if i told u that Oyster > Soup, Aspic 4, and Frakctured were by an unsigned band called > hgdsfltuihejkfa, what would u say about the songs? I think Daniel Pepper is somewhat right. I'm sure there are some fans who would praise a door squeak if King Crimson released it on the album... :-) Peter -- PRZEWODNIK PO ZAPOMNIANYCH GRUPACH ROCKOWYCH: http://www.amwaw.edu.pl/~pzlotko ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 19:33:52 EDT From: MongoBoy at aol dot com Subject: Flatulence Effects Audient Contribution In a message dated 06/02/2000 9:38:01 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Steve Yockey steve at tradiant dot com in ET 685 about various occurrences at concerts which. > 7. attacks on my sense of smell. > > This usually takes the form of cigarette smoke, body odor, or flatulence. > The completely unidentifiable smells are even more disturbing. I found this hilarious. I was actually LOL. I'm trying to imagine what Steve's contribution to any event might be with or without others farting in his space.... It's funny for me to think that the guy (or gal) in front of me who let's a stinky one go will effect me in a way that I actually have an effect on Robert and the bands' performance. Just imagine at your next KC event, signs posted at the entrance reading: " No taping, photography, autography or flatulence." Better yet, just imagine RF post show addressing the audience only to abruptly dash off stage when an innocent audient rips a loud fart. The moment was soiled (pun intended). Funny stuff. ML ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 19:49:59 -0400 (CLT) From: "Miguel Farah F." Subject: Re: An insignificant little thought.. > >Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 21:35:12 EDT >From: "R G" >Subject: An insignificant little thought.. > >I'm new to ET, so please forgive me if this has been mentioned before, but >has anyone noticed a similarity between the "Mission: Impossible" theme and >the bridge to "21st Century Schizoid Man?" Almost makes you wonder... Maybe Robert Fripp and Lalo Schifrin were twins separated at birth. }:-> (that would explain why RF likes to go to Argentina) -- MIGUEL FARAH // miguel at webhost dot cl #include // http://www.webhost.cl/~miguel <*> "Trust me - I know what I'm doing." - Sledge Hammer ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 19:51:21 -0400 (CLT) From: "Miguel Farah F." Subject: Re: Bootlegging (part 3) vs. Taping > >Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 12:57:53 -0400 >From: "Hammill, Randall -ND" >Subject: Bootlegging (part 3) vs. Taping > >[...] >PS. I indicated that Toby had a link to how to record the Mexico City >Download - I was mistaken. There was (is?) a web-page with graphics that >somebody had used for their CD and instructions on how to make it. I cannot >remember if I found it through Elephant-Talk. I cannot find the link now. >Thanks, Toby! I think you mean my Live in Mexico City page - it's at http://www.webhost.cl/~miguel/KC/ -- MIGUEL FARAH // miguel at webhost dot cl #include // http://www.webhost.cl/~miguel <*> "Trust me - I know what I'm doing." - Sledge Hammer ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #686 ********************************