Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #682 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 682 Tuesday, 30 May 2000 Today's Topics: NEWS: Dark Aether Project Concerts GIG BIZ: world crim audients connection page Controversy..Criticism..It's only Talk.. Fripp in Yes Re: Frakctured Belew alergic? Post-Conspiracy Pieces of my puzzle... (aka ridicously long) Something wrong ? a woman's perspective Posiedon re-issue *THE PATTERN* Lark's comparisons, Active Listening, Trey and Pat Michael Giles/Andy McCulloch Re: Reviews, reviewers & stuff Keneally Plug for TCOL at Show 6 Short Notes on TCOL Skipping songs Bootlegging and Concert Enjoyment Bitching and Moaning GIG REVIEW: Second gig in Copenhagen GIG REVIEW: Copenhagen 28/5 - v. short review ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 13:11:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Adam Levin Subject: NEWS: Dark Aether Project Concerts The Dark Aether Project: Adam Levin: Warr 8 String Touch Guitar/Guitar/Keyboards/Loops Ray Weston: Vocals/Bass Allen Brunelle: Drums/Percussion/Keyboards/Vocals Steev Geest: 6 & 12 String Guitars/Guitar Synthesizer/Loops 5/27 - Columbus OH - Quarkstock Festival 6/8 - Falls Church VA - The State Theatre - opening for Happy the Man 6/14 - New York NY - Knitting Factory - guests Anekdoten and DGM artist Tony Geballe(LoCG/T. Gunn Band) 7/1 - Hartford CT - Mandelbrot Festival 7/7 - Neconset NY - Morrill Theatre More dates coming soon. For further concert details and a sneak peek at working demos from the upcoming third Dark Aether Project album, visit http://www.darkaether.net/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 10:11:14 -0400 From: Dave & Racquel Subject: GIG BIZ: world crim audients connection page I've changed the page at http://www.midnightmecca.com/vbpro/crimso/index.html It's now set up for all Crimsos going to shows world wide that want to find others needing or having spare tix/hotel space to swap/sell/share. Please visit and sign in, whether you're looking for spare tix/rooms or not. (Maybe I'll need a translator now?) Thanx-Dave ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 23:26:27 -0500 From: "Joe Funk" Subject: Controversy..Criticism..It's only Talk.. This being my first post , I feel I must comment on all the "Self-Proclaimed Crimson Experts" and their bitter criticism of TCOL. I hope Y'all aren't this critical with family & friends when they don't live up to your "lofty expectations"!.. Scary Thought....... Anyway, I've been a KC fan for almost 30 years, and I am just glad that RF & co. continue to produce intelligent and thought provoking music...whatever the format/whoever the lineup.. Pat is awesome, and I third (?) the motion: >> In conclusion. I wish everyone would get off of Mr. Mastelloto's back! Is >> he Bill Bruford? No. But he is a brilliant drummer in his own right and he >> can probably out drum any drummer on this list. For those of you who keep >> dissing his old band, Mister Mister, even if you don't like the music, >> check out his very solid and inventive drumming. So stop this trash talking >> unless you can take his place in Crimso. And then apologize to Mr. >> >> Mastelloto for being so whiny about him > >I will second this motion. Pat's playing with Mr. Mister, on Damage and >various Projects have convinced me of his quality. If you dig Bruford (I >do) that is no reason to slam Pat. Both are quality players , each with >their own style. You may dig one style better, But that does not make the >other Krap. Some of the best "Pop" drum tracks EVER laid down, were by Pat on XTC's "Oranges & Lemons".... Yes, his sound on TCOL is sparser... Perhaps this was intentional. I don't know, but maybe we should stop trying to get into the minds of the artists and just enjoy what is laid out for us. The irony to all this is that Bill Bruford is my favorite drummer.. Sure, he is missed on this album! But what-ifs are a waste of time. Move on. Enjoy! Joe "Opening a Can of Worms" Funk ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------- "Ah, now then, did you write this symphony....in the shed?"" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 13:21:09 +0800 From: Errol Tout Subject: Fripp in Yes Dear Elephant Talk In a recent Elephant talk Roger Whittaker asked "what would have happened if Fripp had joined Yes?!? ". I believe I can actually answer that! I am pretty sure I heard this question asked at a Guitar Craft course. After one of those lengthy pauses we know and love so well, followed by a lovely smile, Mr. Fripp's reply to that question was along the lines of "I imagine they would have have had a lot less top-ten hits andf sold much fewer albums". If I have this wrong I apologize to all concerned. I am not a spokesman for Mr. Fripp, but to the best of my kbowledge, I believe this was how the conversation went. Cheers Errol H. Tout Architect Lecturer Chair Science + Technology Stream Enrolments Officer Generally Cool Dude! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 01:51:32 -0400 From: Johnnyroman Subject: Re: Frakctured I've been hearing alot about Frakctured being not what they expected or not being good or such and such, yadayada, but I thought it was originally Lark's Tongues V. Maybe I'm wrong but i vaguely remember reading that fripp showed it to the other guys and one of them said it reminded him more of fracture than larks, so he just changed the name. Is this true, or have I just killed all my memory retention cells? mike http://mp3.com/phoenixdown ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 08:03:02 +0200 From: Gnad Markus Subject: Belew alergic? Hi there (again!) So, Adrian Belew is alergic. Hm. How could he then stand working with main promoters for Winston & L&M cigarettes, Frank Zappa and David Bowie? Yours, Markus ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 11:49:24 +0200 From: Gnad Markus Subject: Post-Conspiracy Good morning! Has anybody noticed a sort of "post-conspiracy" produced by members that left the band King Crimson over the years? A few examples: * collaboration McDonald/Giles * collaboration Giles/Muir/Cunningham * collaboration Wetton/Palmer-James * collaboration Bruford/Levin Further examples are surely available. Markus Hmmm.... there's no thing as old as Yesterday's Newsletter. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 12:06:53 CEST From: "Macahan The Unifaun" Subject: Pieces of my puzzle... (aka ridicously long) Hello all and everybody else! Lots and lots of thoughts have come to me, passed or stayed this Saturday, 27th May, (on which I attended the European KC tour premiere in Copenhagen), yesterday and today. Some are observations or reflections. Some are just short memories, tidbits taken out of their context. Some are naive, unfinished and controversial, most are subjective, though trying to be objective and factual. I want to share these observations and tidbits with you other KC fans on ET (and perhaps KC themselves). Feel free to read it or skip it, to love it or hate it, discuss it or ignore it. Either way I think posts as these is what ET is all about. Its gonna be a looooong post, I can feel that, so you who have decided to get through it all, prepare a cup of coffe, put your favourite record and favourite slippers on and make yourself comfortable in front of your computer, cause this may take a while. And, btw, don't expect an ordinary review of the concert. In fact, expect nothing... Observations ------------ 1) King Crimson is a ROCK band It wasnt a progressive rock band that entered the stage of Amager Bio a few minutes before 21:00 the day before yesterday. Neither was it a psychedelic one, a symphonic, or even wild art rock band. No! It was a rock n roll band. With a history like KCs theres an obvious danger of falling into the categories of music they have mastered through the years and not getting out however hard one tries. But the concert proved that KCs past isnt a burden. When looking behind me to see the crowd of listeners/audients, I could tell that they were rocked by KC. It wasnt a bunch of 30-45 year old cold, intellectual overclass men with glasses, rulers, and a Hawkings book under the arm, standing still and counting the beats and analysing the chord structures that I saw. No, it was people who all were grooving along the music. The general feeling I got was that KC was a rock n roll band. Not a rock n roll band like any other rock n roll band, but a KC rock n roll band. And I loved it. ProzaKc, VROOOM, Dinosaur, Larks IV were examples of that. If any song (?) was an art rock number, that would have been FraKctured, which at a few point made me long for a bit more soulful music. 2) King Crimson are human beings It wasnt gods or beasts I saw Saturday, it was men like you or I. This implies that 1) they dont have either halos or horns, and 2) they are made of flesh and blood. So? Well, as a fan of the KC music I have naturally made myself a picture of the band and the members over the years. When listening to Starless, Frame by frame or The ConstruKction of light, Im often amazed by the quality and magic that lies in the music. The magic, combined with the unability to really look into the artists lifes have made me create an image about these guys. Yes, we have the diaries, and yes we have biographies etc, but still... Therefore it was truly great to see Belew, Fripp, Gunn and Mastelotto in the flesh. But the greatness didnt lie in the opportunity to worship my heroes as gods, but in the fact that I saw that they were "ordinary" people, like anyone of us. 3) see 2 And as human beings they most certainly impressed the balls out of me. Are these guys amazingly skilled musicians or what??? My brother and I agreed upon that Trey impressed the most, closely followed by Pat. I was already had both my feet in the pro-V-drums camp, but lets say my feet sunk deep in the mould when I saw the concert. Of course Fripp wasnt that bad either ;) He was picking the guitar REALLY fast. Not that you didnt know that he could, but his speed got very apparent for me who stood where I couldnt see the front of mr. Fripps guitar, but just his hands moving in unearthly manners. Still, they are human beings. 4) see 3 Something clicked in Adrian during Sex, Sleep, Eat, Drink, Dream. The funky intro draw some applause that were unexpectedly large (Its not that I dont like the song, but the applause were more than I had expected, relative to the response to other numbers). And the vocal part approached, and kept on approaching. And it kept on approaching beyond the point where it should have come. It was great fun to see mr. Mastelotto, who surprisedly pointed and poked with one stick in Adrians direction, trying to catch the attention of a slightly puzzled Fripp. But the primal tribal apple egg arrived where they should, and it was all handled with a laugh by the band. The only time the song title was sung was at the very end. I dont know if everybody noticed the little unexpected event, but it definitely didnt harm the performance. It rather proved the flexiblity of the performers, and the fun which they seamed to have. Perhaps it was the otherwise not noticeable nerves for the tour premiere that showed their heads. But I thought it was kind of fun it happened anyway. 5) see 4 In his diary (http://www.disciplineglobalmobile.com/diary/diary.htm) of Sunday 28th. May, 2000, mr. Fripp wrote: "We're getting better at responding to dropped beats & half-beats, sudden shifts in direction & impossible hearing. Mistakes but not train wrecks tonight." Exactly my observation too. A few mistakes were made, but thats practically impossible to avoid at the start of a tour, when it comes to the kind of music KC does. The still just as brilliant and skilled mr. Fripp seamt to miss a few notes during FraKctured, and at one or two points something wasnt right at all. I felt compassion with Fripp and sent a silent prayer to the God I believe in and hoped for the best. The best appeared for almost the whole rest of the show. I dont know if I would suggest to KC to drop FraKctured or notm since it is a nearly impossible piece. I havent decided yet. My brother firmly believed they shouldnt. According to Pat, his V-drums were messing with him during Deception of the Thrush, but I really didnt notice. Treys playing was magnificent. Adrians gave his all both vocally (except SSEDD, that is ;)) and instrumentally. And there was some technical problems with Fripps guitar during TCOL if I recall correctly (which I very well may not). But no train wrecks, and the whole perfomance went very well. 6) King Crimson enjoyed itself As a first-time Crimson viewer it was a new experience to see Adrian Belew on stage. That man just has it, doesnt he? The pure enjoyment was shining out of the man, landing all over the place. You couldnt have anything but a great time when watching Adrian on stage. He smiled, sweated, sung, laughed and gave his all. I got the feeling that hes a nice person somehow ;) But still I would have loved to see the KC --> audience communication go through any other channel than Adrian. He didnt say much, but that didnt matter. He communicated madly and intensly through his active prescence. But why couldnt Trey, Pat or Robert have said anything? The audience deserved it. Yes, Robert may be deeply stuck in his shy-gentleman-with-firm-opinions-always-thought-of-twice-before-spoken-style , but hey, come on, youre there to perform, and if "The audience were very supportive." (Fripps diary 28th May), couldnt a few words from mr Fripp have been afforded? Oh well, he just is the way he is, right? Fun to observe the complete difference in personality between Adrian and Robert on stage, though they seamed to love each other and communicate just as much in spite of that. 7) King Crimson runs forward Without revealing to much of the setlist, lets say you who are awaiting a KC concert in a venue near you, dont expect a greatest-hits-show. Dont expect anything, in fact. But let me say they concentrated on the latest records very much, and at a few times I felt sadness in my heart, knowing they wouldn't play any of my favourites from past decades. Oh well, who am I to complaint when they still produce such fantastic music? BTW, I happen to think this lineup is the best one, in competition with the 73 lineup. Pat had written a wish list for this tour, which included Cat Food, Easy Money and Ladies of the road, but as usual, "Fripp didnt want that". Sometimes I think Fripp is too determined for KCs own good. Still, I fully understand and kind of appreciate the decision to let the past be left behind on stage. But on the other hand, the current material harks back to earlier incarnations anyway, so... Phew, thats the observations, now comes the more lightweight part. Hang on, and prepare another cup of coffe, turn the record over and fasten your slippers, were going in Tidbits ------- . During ProzaKc Blues I simply couldnt resist plugging this lovely, stormy and always interesting forum by shouting "ELEPHANT TALK" just when Belew was pausing a second after "youve been reading to much". Man, I am looking forward to hear the bootlegtv.com recording and see if its heard properly. Belew heard it, it seamed, and if he did, he took it with the irony I thought he would. . Belew was enjoying the show, as I said, and smiled almost all the time. It was great for most parts, but I couldnt help but being amused over the irony when he couldnt restrain his smiles during the coda of Larks IV. AIDS disease, Kosovo, the bombing of the world trade arent subjects you should smile while singing of, but Adrian is absolutely forgiven, and I dont think anyone was offended, since it was clear that Adrian wasnt smiling because of the content of the lyrics. . Bootlegtv.com were filming and recording the whole performance, including before- and aftertalk with fans and such. Maybe the band too, dont know. Anyway, after the show, they interviewed me and my brother outside the venue. It was great fun, and I cant help laughing out loud, when I think of my brothers remark that "after Beat, I lost Thrak of them". I found it utterly funny, but the twist seamed to pass the bootlegtv crew by. They said it should be available in about 5 days, and that it would probably be free the first shows. WHAT A SUPERB SERVICE FOR THE FANS!!! Long live Crimson in conjunction with the Internet, its a great marriage. . Considering the many moments the works of Fripp have given me so much, I would have loved to at least be seen by him. He was quite concentrated on playing and communicating with the other band members during the show, but after it he looked out over the crowd to see what kinds of people we were, I guess. In a desperate attempt to catch his attention I then instinctively jumped and waved a bit. I got the feeling he saw it in the corner of an eye, and avoided me, thinking it was inappropriate behaviour. Well, what had I expected ;) . The audience was great and very supportive I think. Therefore I found it slighlty ungrateful to not step out for a second set of encores, considering the massive ovations after the first, and only encores. I didnt count the minutes we were shouting, applauding, stamping our feet and whistling, but it was long enough to merit at least a quick re-entering of the stage. If they hadnt anything rehearsed, well, at least a little chat with the audience, an improv, the simplest song ever written, or just something. Ah, Im a naive fan I guess . The lounge version of Cage ROXXXX!!! . No credit cards were allowed at the sales desk. I got what I wanted anyway by using Swedish money. I bought the ProjeKct X CD, that I so far find boring, but that may change, I feel. When looking at it, I saw that the tracks appeared to be damaged, and that something had gone wrong when burning the CD. The playing side of it had some strange ripples and lines where they shouldn't be. But it played alright, so I guess I wont have to mail DGM and tell them about the possible catastrophy of retracting all PX CDs. . Pats a really nice guy. He was the only band member who I got to talk to. He wondered about the sound, which I found just perfect, but I had ear plugs, so perhaps I wasnt the best man to judge. They thought they started quiet, and then got louder and louder. Maybe, I didnt notice that. Man, that was a long post And now to write the essay about Framfab that I SHOULD have written... /Macahan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 13:28:41 +0100 From: Artur Figueiredo Subject: Something wrong ? Dear friends: My name is Artur and I've been following King Crimson's odissey for a long period of time. Remember Lisbon ? I was there at the stadium where King Crimson and Roxy Music performed a magnificent concert. The reason I'm writing this is because I'm very very sad and frustrated because I lost my USA LP, and I need badly the information about someone that can provide me a copy of that unforgettable recording. Since King Crimson didn't make yet a CD release (shame on you). So I'll take the tape instead. Can someone tell me how can I get it . What do I have to do ? And how long do I have to wait for the USA CD release ? There's something wrong with it ? I still believe and I'm totally commited to have that master-piece. Don't let me down. Thanks for the great contribution to the music of the planet. Portugal salute all of you artur_figueiredo at hotmail dot com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 10:11:42 -0400 From: Dave & Racquel Subject: a woman's perspective Happily, I happened to be one of the few women who attended the KC concerts in Nashville. I thought I noticed a distinct difference in Adrian's vibe with the audience between the Friday and Saturday shows, as I was at both. I didn't know whether it was my location within the venue or how the crowd reacted to the band. For the Friday show, I was up front, very close to the stage, just feeling the music like a wave. It was electrifying, to say the least. I was familiar with all of the songs and felt myself closing my eyes and just listening with perma-grin. When Adrian began to sing "One Time," I had tears in my eyes. Perhaps I noticed a difference because there was so much excitement in the air on Friday. Many people were actually dancing in 7/8 where Saturday's crowd seemed more tame, perhaps being more audient. At the Saturday show, I sat upstairs in the balcony. It was like watching a movie for the second time and picking up all the nuances that you miss initially. For one thing, the absence of the fatigue from standing allowed me to concentrate on the performance of KC as a whole. Up front, at times, I felt like I was watching a championship tennis match as my eyes bounced from Trey to Adrian, to Fripp, to Mastelotto and back to Trey again just watching the music coalesce into a body-tingling work of art. At the Saturday show, the crowd down in front seemed somewhat reserved. I think perhaps Adrian's relationship may have been different with the crowd Friday because of our reaction. You could feel the energy all around you. It remained with me as I left for the evening, drenched with perspiration. It was cool to be able to meet some of the people who visited our Nashville Connections page at http://www.midnightmecca.com/vbpro/crimso that ended up getting tickets for the show. (soon to be a world crimson connection page) I also found it interesting that most of the men I met almost questioned my actual interest in the band, or whether I was just "along for the ride". At times, I felt as though I was being interviewed as to my worthiness as a fan and how much I actually new about the band. Without being indignant, I assured many that I was in fact a fan. I must admit, I am yet a newbie when it comes to being a KC fan, but a fan nonetheless. Seeing them for the first time in a great venue like 12th and Porter only underscored my position as an ardent disciple. Racquel Corpus (DE) dc-et 9+1 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 11:18:03 EDT From: NotoriousAWOL at aol dot com Subject: Posiedon re-issue After coming across the " Islands " 30-year reissue in a local Tower Records for only 16 bucks, I contributed to these pages how much I appreciated the music, having not put on the old vinyl for years. I then went out and looked for "Poseidon", for my vinyl was so torn up I couldn't play the title track. Well, a very fine independent record store ( please support them folks) called Sound Exchange in Wayne, NJ got hold of a Japanese import for me at the modest price of 40 bucks (ouch!) . I could complain about the price if it weren't for the memory of all the times I was skeeded up cruising the projects for another hundred bucks worth of coke! That kinda puts it all into perspective, ya know? Anyway, the good clean joy that this beautifully mixed Mellotron masterpiece brings me is really quite priceless. First, the lovely melancholy descending phrases of the fanfare. Then, the last lines sung by Lake; " Whilst all around our Mother Earth lay balanced on the ........wait, here comes the last word powerfully drenched in gorgeous Mell.....SCAAA...AAAAA....AAALES!" and then the epic fadeout. When I put the past into perspective this music was so earnestly sentimental compared to some of the stuff compared to it at the time. No wonder reactionary critics, themselves in their early twenties and too scared to reveal their real feelings cynically lambasted it. On another note for the gearheads among us. A reliable gearhead source tells me that the vintage Electro-Harmonix 16-second delay was labeled "Fripp in a box" for its ability to create Frippertronic-like effects. May all my Crimso brothers and sisters continue their personal CnstucKtion of Light. Peace. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 11:26:59 -0400 From: Daniel Pepper Subject: *THE PATTERN* hi again everybody~ i'd like to bring something to everyone's attention..there is a certain pattern with KC records-> as soon as u think the music is getting predictable, Fripp brings in new people and new sounds and totally re-invents the group..when TOAPP came out, it was obvious that it and the previous album, BEAT, were children of Discipline..so Fripp decided to remake the Beast...basically, this album is in the tradition of THRaK, its just a little more hard-rock-ish than THRaK..it may take one more album with this current line-up and sound before Fripp decides to change the band's direction, but it will definitely happen within the next two years..don't forget EACH KC ERA PRODUCES THREE OR FOUR ALBUMS AND THEN THE SOUND TOTALLY CHANGES..what i'm trying to say is that we are right now experiencing what fans experienced when TOAPP, Lizard, and Red were released..we're saying to ourselves "hey, these records are great but its getting too predictable"...this pattern has been intertwined in KC history since the beginning of KC..the next album, or the album after that is going to be TOTALLY DIFFERENT than TCoL..just wait and see=)..i hope my point was pretty clear here..feel free to criticize or agree with me=) bye~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 11:27:39 EDT From: Hocow at aol dot com Subject: Lark's comparisons, Active Listening, Trey and Pat Howdy, I was going to bore you with an analysis of the 4 Lark's Tongues but didn't have the musical vocabulary to pull it off. Some general observations: One and Two don't have much to do with each other. One is a series of movements, many based on improvs featuring different members in different spots. There is one Bartokish theme on the violin (where the distant voices are going) that vaguely resembles the theme of Lark's II which is heavily influenced by the Bartok string quartets. The Lark's II theme, especially it's rythm, has become the definition or common thread with the other Larks. III opens with the guitar lick from the second passage of 1 and then takes the Lark's theme and smooths it out into a mechanical techno march followed by the goofy slow motion coda (I mean that in the best sense of the word). IV begins by taking the Lark's II rythm and interupting it with various bits that quote different elements of the other Larks. The Trey and Pat combo are more tightly interlocked than most rythm sections playing counter to the guitar parts. Fripp was not just being pretentious when he called the band double duo instead of a quartet. The next movement (let's change Pat's statement to "Adrian played all the solos except 2") is a Fripp solo puncuated by the band which goes into a movement which quotes Red!??. Next movement Adrian Hendrix solo puntuated by the band, the punctuation evolving into variations of the Lark's II theme. Last movement, a very good song that IMHO doesn't fit with the rest of the piece. The feel is melancholy and wistful, where the rest of the piece is tense, almost violently agressive. I like it, I just don't think of it as part of Lark's IV. Oops, I guess I did bore you with my analysis. The point I meant to get to was that Lark's IV had been my least favorite piece on the new cd when I had been listening more casually. All the really brilliant rythm section work had gone unnoticed until I really sat down and gave it an active listen. Now I like it alot. For those who dismiss this and Frakctured as uninspired retreads I would suggest doing such a comparison. You may probably still prefer the old versions (nothing wrong with that) but in really analyzing it you might find the new songs have more to offer than you think. Of course you are welcome to dismiss the whole thing as rubbish and not revisit it at all. It is unfortunate that in our Pat (he ain't BB) bashing we have lost track of what an amazing rythm ensemble Pat and Trey make. They are locked so tightly together in spots that a friend of mine thought perhaps the bass lines were programmed into the V-drums ala Projekct II. Quite a compliment when you think about it. And these are very tricky disjointed rythms. There can be more than one terrific rythm section. You can like this without being unfaithful to TL and BB. I don't listen to the B.L.U.E. cds and think they suck because David Torn and Chris Botti aren't Fripp and Belew. This isn't Highlander. There can be more than one. Just remember these guys have feelings. From interviews and diaries Pat seems to be a journeyman who is exploring new areas with zest and enthusiasm. I would hate for our carping to sour him on the validity of his efforts. We got to Adrian, and he is one of the most personable, happy go lucky guys on the planet. Go to a solo gig and meet him afterwards for an autgraph and then think about the crap he's put up with here. Pat seems to be good humored and pretty good natured. I hope he understands that most of criticism flying his way has nothing to do with what he plays and that it should be ignored. It's just that Yes, Genesis, UK, and King Crimson are, in these pages, a more politically correct pedigree than XTC, the Rembrandts, and Mister Mister. His excellent drumming should be obvious to anyone without baggage in their ears. He is not Bill, he is himself. He is a change and you may prefer the last rythm section to the current one but stop getting personal and whiney about it. Bruford will make great albums with other people and you can enjoy those. I know I will. Perhaps he'll be back perhaps he won't. Don't let his abscence stop you from enjoying a great band. Oops I guess I went off there a bit. Sorry. Brad Wilmot ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 19:05:25 +0200 From: izyrp at odn dot de Subject: Michael Giles/Andy McCulloch Gnad Markus wrote: > I) The Giles Theme: Someone recently came up with the Michael Giles > thing. A great man, INDEED, but little known of. Who knows a few > recordings and contributions (also current) he made? Michael Giles did some great drumming on 2 albums by Anthony Phillips (first Genesis guitarist) "Wise after the event" and "Sides". He can also be heard on Jackson Heights' (The band of ex-The Nice Lee Jackson) album "The fifth Avenue bus". How about mentioning the great "Lizard" drummer Andy McCulloch here? Professor Nutbutter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 13:21:52 -0400 From: "Dave Fisher" Subject: Re: Reviews, reviewers & stuff > From: Wilcox660 at aol dot com > Subject: Reviews, reviewers & stuff > > Dear people - > relax & enjoy. Last time I checked, KC is comprised of 4 guys > who happen to play their instruments pretty well. Having met all 4 > involved on several occasions ( and, PLEASE, I don't say this to drop names > - so don't go there!) they're regular guys with occasionally questionable > taste in clothes. No miracles were performed, no water walked upon. So > let's lighten up a bit on the hero worship. > > best - John A.Wilcox Hi, if anyone's interested, I write album reviews in my spare time for a trio of newspapers and a pair of magazines, for whatever they're worth. This is my two-cent review of the new KC album. (I also just got the Belew and Levin solo discs, and there's a nice photo of Tony I took with KC in '95 at the URL below, if anyone cares.) KING CRIMSON The ConstruKction of Light Virgin Another decade, another King Crimson album. For those still interested, gone are bassist/stickman Tony Levin and drummer Bill Bruford, while Trey Gunn and Pat Mastelotto (the new kids on the block) stick around with Adrian Belew and benign dictator Robert Fripp to complete the lineup. Advance buzz on the new record was disappointing, but this is a strong effort. Long time fans are always going to hold up anything with the KC moniker against tremendous past records like Red and Discipline, which hardly seems fair. No, the new recording doesn't match those masterworks, but it's definitely superior to the so-so '94 comeback efforts of VROOOM and THRAK. The band has eased off Belew's vocals and focused on a handful of lengthy and uniformly excellent instrumentals, with "FraKctured" and "Larks' Tongue in Aspic-Part IV" being the most arresting. Where Belew does sing, his voice seems peculiarly processed and not it's usual self, which strangely makes for an even more engaging listen. Album opener "ProzaKc Blues" for one, is a bluesy piece with a delivery that sounds like he's been listening to Nick Cave records. A solid addition to a legacy most of us thought was over 25, then 15 and yet again 5 years ago. DF ------------------------------------------------ dgf photojournalism http://home.golden.net/~tekapo ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 10:41:32 -0700 From: "Stephen P. Goodman" Subject: Keneally Plug for TCOL at Show We went to see Mike Keneally play a recorded show at the Baked Potato on Sunset in LA Friday; and wouldn't you know it, while I was out to the men's room, Mike put in a plug for TCOL! He didn't have any copies to sell though. :) Stephen Goodman * The free Loop of the Week! EarthLight Productions * http://www.earthlight.net/Studios ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 13:26:21 -0500 (CDT) From: flaherty michael w Subject: 6 Short Notes on TCOL 1. If anyone is keeping score, add one to the positive column. 2. Nothing will make a person old as fast as nostolgia will. What is past is past. Some of you, who I suspect are at least ten years younger than me, are sounding very old. 3. Initial impression (for a debut): not as immediately powerful as LARKS' TOUNGUES or DISCIPLINE, but more so than THRAK. I didn't expect any more than that ... not yet, anyway. 4. I think the drums sound great. Pat is, by the way, the coolest and hippest musician Crimson has ever had in its ranks. I realize that for some of you those are negative qualities ... so be it. 5. The new album is not a retread of old Crimson ... except in titles. Much of it is familiar from the ProjeKcts, but that was their stated purpose. 6. Every KC so far has been better live than in the studio. I can't wait for the live recordings. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 20:13:29 +0200 From: Jakub_Grudzinski Subject: Skipping songs In last several ET Newsletters i read sentences like this one: >To this day I always skip 'Moonchild', all the 'Peace' songs, >'Lady Of The Dancing Water', 'We'll Let You Know', 'The Mincer' >and 'Providence'. I must say that I'm a little bit shocked... I never even thought of skipping KC songs... Boromir the Denethor's son "Life's a piece of shit, when you look at it". - MP ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 19:08:53 EDT From: ASchulberg at aol dot com Subject: Bootlegging and Concert Enjoyment Brad Wilmot wrote: > Why screw up your enjoyment of the moment to > surreptiously steal a recording that is going to be available to you anyway? > I've distracted myself out of enjoying a double trio concert just by over > analyzing who is playing what (where's Trey?). The distraction of taping and > worrying about being busted has got to wreck the concert for at a minimum, > yourself. Why bother? First of all, not every concert is going to be available and maybe, just maybe, you want an aural souvenir that commemorates an event you attended. By the way, how does Fripp draw the distinction that it's okay for the band to tape the show but not the audience members? Isn't that as disruptive of the experience of the moment? If the answer is that the audience isn't aware of it, then wouldn't it be okay if the taping were done without the band being aware of it? Second of all, if you're at the concert and experiencing it in your own way, maybe that way includes an analysis of who's playing what, where they are in the mix, how it sounds compared to the record or how you thought it would sound, etc. Or, in the alternative, maybe you've decided to not immerse yourself in the experience but just make the bootleg (for whatever reason). That's your choice too. Must all who attend a concert be of pure mind and spirit, participatory audients? We all have our own reasons for attending and enjoying the show. Some may want to have more than their memory to rely on for re-experiencing it. Arnie Schulberg ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 19:08:54 EDT From: ASchulberg at aol dot com Subject: Bitching and Moaning Daniel J. Goodwin wrote: > So please, for the decency of music and artistic freedom, stop and > listen to yourselves for just a moment. Realize how ridiculous you are > for posting your self serving opinions on the new record and Crimson in > general. Leave Robert Fripp alone at performances...you don't need an > autograph.....Stop worrying > about what guitar strings he used on RED, and how he got that infinite > sustain....He is a professional musician, and what that usually entitles is > having a personal unique voice on your instrument. Why would anybody want > to copy his sound...IT IS HIS SOUND!!! >> So, Daniel, what would you have us talk about? Speaking for myself, I prefer a good disagreement to continuous fawning praise. Arnie Schulberg ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 11:15:51 +0200 From: "Henrik Ditlevsen" Subject: GIG REVIEW: Second gig in Copenhagen First I'll apologize for a mistake I made on the setlist of the first Crimso concert here in Copenhagen. They didn't play a impro of PX's The Business of Pleasure - it was Heaven and Earth - sorry!! So the setlist for the first concert 05.27.00 in Amager Bio, Copenhagen was: ProzaKc Blues TcoL Oyester Soup FraKctured Dinosaur One Time Cage SSEDD Vrooom Heaven and Earth Frying Pan Larks IV Coda: I Have a Dream Encores: ToaPP (Belew on solo on acoustic) P3's Deception of the Trush Heroes Yesterday they played their second concert in Amager Bio and it was a completely different experience. At the first concert the band was very focused and concentrated, yesterday they were more loose and took more chances, which led to more mistakes, which again led to big grins from Belew, Mastelotto and Gunn, and hey.. wasn't there a little curl on Mr.Fripp's lips???? Especially Belew was in an extremely good mood - making new words to Cage (about a rainbow over Copenhagen - it rained a lot an hour before the concert), teasing Fripp who teased back in Cage. When Belew sang:"Holy Smoke! Somebody blew up the Pope" Fripp made an "explosion" on his guitar and Belew broke down in laughter and forgot to play for a sec or two. In Heroes he sang: "And I drink all the time " - a little pause and then adding "Tuborg" a famous Danish beer. The setlist for 05.28.00 in Amager Bio (as I remember it). Frying Pan TcoL ProzaKc Blues (with a great bluesy HEY from Belew in the middle of his solo) FraKctured Dinosaur One Time SSEDD ( a little different from the first night) Impro ???? Oyster Soup Cage Larks IV Coda: I Have a Dream Encores: ToaPP P3's Deception of the Thrush Vrooom Encore encore: Heroes I think the set on the second night worked better than that on the first. Frying Pan are a better opener and Vrooom is a very good encore. I think the band found out on the first night that it is good to have an extra encore - people just wouldn't go home on the first night - they stood clapping and yelling for 10 minutes after the show, and they first stopped when a roadie packed Mr.Fripps guitar away. I don't know if I find the music on the second night better, but some songs worked better: The Coda: I Have a Dream, Heroes ( a little bit longer than on the first night and played with more power) and Deception of the Thrush. It was great the see the band at last and both concerts were great experiences. In Belew the band has a true showman and I think it is a very good Line Up of the band that is now ready for a world tour - check them out. Henrik ------------------------------ Date: 29 May 00 07:26:46 MDT From: claus dot poulsen at usa dot net Subject: GIG REVIEW: Copenhagen 28/5 - v. short review Once again, hello elephant talkers...... I was very lucky to see the 2 Copenghagen shows. All people I talked to said it was far better tonight than yesterday. An excited band, with more confidence. Fripp was very playful and sometimes laughed. It seemed to me that they have discussed last night's concert quite a lot, or tried out new things during the day. There were a new approach in some pieces tonight; sometimes different drum sounds. Jamming & improvising & improving. Everybody laughing at Cage. "Deception" was very tense.. Thanks for a super concert! Please visit Copenhagen more often in the future (we TOLD you it would be good, didn't we?) And I couldn't help myself: bought the MastiCa CD with my hard-earned money! exciting! SET LIST COPENHAGEN 28/5 Frying pan / The construKction of light / ProzaKc blues / FraKctured / One Time / Dinosaur / improv ("Copenhagen") / The world's my oyster soup kitchen floor wax museum / Cage / Sex sleep eat drink dream / Larks' tongues in aspic IV including I Had a dream / encore: Three of a perfect pair (Ade) / Deception of the thrush (P3) / VROOOM / second encore: Heros SET LIST COPENHAGEN 27/5 ProzaKc blues / The construKction of light / FraKctured / Frying pan / One Time / Dinosaur / Cage / Heaven and earth / The world's my oyster soup kitchen floor wax museum / VROOOM / Sex sleep eat drink dream / Larks' tongues in aspic IV including I Had a dream / encore: Three of a perfect pair (Ade) / Deception of the thrush (P3) / Heros Best regards, Kclaus ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #682 ********************************