Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #681 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 681 Monday, 29 May 2000 Today's Topics: NEWS: from the Moderator silly trivia CGT & Tony Levin in Quebec City Fuzz Sorry...and moving on...to MP3's re: Recording quality (was re: Giles) This is not a band for earnest intellectuals, particularly young European ma ProzaKc Blues Re: Derogatory Elephant Talk Reference ET Mentioned in Prozakc Boots again Why all the fuss? Reviews, reviewers & stuff 1st poor KC album CDs TO SELL de gustibus non disputandum est I Have a Dream Re- J.Robinson - The Nice & King Crimson Re: Derogatory Elephant Talk Reference re: *ISLANDS* re:Islands Re:Derogatory Elephant Talk reference and a few more words LARKS' TALES FROM TOPOGRASPIC OCEANS GIG REVIEW: First gig in Copenhagen GIG REVIEW: Copenhagen gig GIG REVIEW: 27/5 - relatively short review GIG REVIEW: Amger Bio concert ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 07:56:53 BST From: "Toby Howard" Subject: NEWS: from the Moderator Hi everyone. Just a reminder. Please use the following codes in the "Subject:" lines of your posts, if they apply. It helps enormously at this end, as the posts get automatically grouped together based on these codes. Subject: NEWS: an announcement of something newsworthy Subject: GIG BIZ: you have tickets to sell or seek tickets, etc Subject: GIG REVIEW: a concert review Cheers Toby ET Moderator ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 20:32:29 -0400 From: "Eric / Susan Young" Subject: silly trivia Hi ETers! Here is a stupid little something to get your minds off all the bitching (and for all proud folks who know it 'ALL). Just a small trivia question; I won't be suprised at how many know this, but...... Q: In what way are Robert Fripp and Monty Python associated? (and PLEASE don't say ''they're both English''!.....) Good Day - and keep an open ear, okay? Eric Y. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 21:17:26 -0400 From: Michel Drolet Subject: CGT & Tony Levin in Quebec City Hello all, to those living in or around Quebec City, California Guitar Trio with Tony Levin will be at this year big Summer Festival. They will play no less than 5 times over the 10 days festivities! To learn more about those dates (and travel info): http://infofestival.com/ bye Michel ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 02:13:46 +0100 From: "Ballentyne" Subject: Fuzz Hello, I have recently taken up the guitar and robert frip is my main influence, and i was wondering if anyone could tell me how i would acheive the fuzz sound that mr fripp has on the nightwatch live album, it would be greatly appreciated, as in what type of pedals etc he used. If anyone can answer my question please email it to me at acid_mirror at budweiser dot com Al. Ballentyne. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 23:50:01 PDT From: "Bill Colrus" Subject: Sorry...and moving on...to MP3's Hello again, I would like to apologize for my post in the last ET. The issues are seemingly crammed with TCOL lately, so I'll move on... Short summation:It's a great album... I'm interested in y'all's opininons of MP3's/Napster/etc. Do you use it? Does it affect your buying? Do you feel GUILTY about this new phenomenon? I'll reserve my (utterly boring, yet urgent) comments on the matter until I see some responses in upcoming ET's...I.E.: a new thread.... [ No, I would prefer we didn't enter into a Napster/MP3 discussion on ET. Please address your replies privately to Bill. Maybe he could summarise, but this won't be a new thread. Cheers -- Toby. ] I personally buy EVERYTHING CRIMSON that I can get my hands on, but, hey, I know some of you don't, and am just wondering if there is some happy middle ground we can reach to make both sides happy...or whatever...(I mostly look for unissued-type-stuff "bootlegs," etc, that I can't get anywhere else BUT the internet)...I buy all available stuff out of a sort-or "retarded allegiance" to the band I love, a band that it's almost impossible to find unofficial stuff for...(keep up the good work KCCC!!!) I'm interested to hear you speak... Thanks, Bill Colrus PS-Any BUILT TO SPILL takers, yet????? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 21:03:40 -0400 From: "Jeff McFadden" Subject: re: Recording quality (was re: Giles) Mark Rehder asked: >But why did all the other albums sound like they were >recorded in a closet!? Bruford's drums on Red sound awful >compared to Giles' on The Court.... That just goes to show the subjective element in listening to music. I think Red is one of the best-produced things ever, and when I want to refer someone to a great drum sound I play them Red. Sometimes I listen to nothing else but Bruford on it. That snare sound on "One More Red Nightmare" I adore. When I first heard ItCotCK, on the other hand, it seemed to be one big pile of midrange sludge, and I could barely pick Robert's guitar out of the din. I got used to it, but I much prefer Giles' drum sound on Poseidon. To me, the worst-recorded Bruford drum tracks are on Larks Tongues in Aspic, especially "Exiles." Sounds like he's in somebody's basement. Somebody must have filled his snare with gravel. Jeff McFadden ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 13:38:06 +0200 From: Gnad Markus Subject: This is not a band for earnest intellectuals, particularly young European male cerebrants. The line is taken from RF's diary, and it simply sounded so great. Forgive me. I) The Giles Theme: Someone recently came up with the Michael Giles thing. A great man, INDEED, but little known of. Who knows a few recordings and contributions (also current) he made? I know of Giles/Muir/Cunningham "Ghost Dance", and.... .... the great and remarkable masterpiece "McDonald and Giles" which I received from Amazon.com yesterday (Japan import). How great and beautiful. Definitely a masterpiece in the - to me still - contemporary 70's music scene. The cover says everything. Does anyone know of further collaborations besides "Drivers Eyes"? II) The IMHO Theme: This stupid little question (I asked for what IMHO means) caused me some time of thinking when I turned on the PC today. About 15 emails with explanation came flooding in. The friendliness and togetherness of the ET folks strikes me. Folks, this is special. I believe there are thousands of internet newspapers like these, but for I am only part of that special one, I can only speak of this. The music we like has brought us together. Made us friends in conversation, thought-sharing and discussion. Outsiders may not be willing to understand. But we do. Hope we do. And, finally, by our togetherness we INDEED take part in the creation of current RF/KC music. Because what is said here surely has impact on the artist. Positive or negative impact, but that's not so important. This is a part of the music that is given to us. I think it's not arrogant to be proud of that. So let's be. III) The TCOL Tour Theme: Perhaps new. And interesting. Austrias "Hit-Radio" station OE3 and promoters speak of the current KC tour which hits this tiny little state on June 16th and 17th of a "reunion tour that brings the original KC artists with their greatest hits". A funny thing. The announcements carry the cover artwork of "ITCOTKC". Compare: I saw the tour poster in Germany. Featuring the cover artwork of the new record. Markus Alexander Gnad A wonderful day in a one-way world ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 12:03:53 -0400 From: Don Cooper Subject: ProzaKc Blues Arnie Schulberg asked the thought provoking question: > So, how do we all feel about Adrian's derogatory reference to Elephant > Talk in ProzaKc Blues? Seems that some of the previous duologues and > diatribes affected him deeply enough to foster lyrical inspiration. > Anybody bothered by the mention? I love that KC sense of humor! It's a funny as Robert's quote on the front page of http://www.elephant-talk.com Chit-chat chit-chat chit-chat, Don ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 11:15:15 -0500 From: "Loren W. Claypool" Subject: Re: Derogatory Elephant Talk Reference "So, how do we all feel about Adrian's derogatory reference to Elephant Talk in ProzaKc Blues? Seems that some of the previous duologues and diatribes affected him deeply enough to foster lyrical inspiration. Anybody bothered by the mention?" I guess the lyric could be taken as derogatory, however, I didn't interpret it that way. Rather, I saw the reference as a tongue-in-cheek acknowledgement of a passionate group of folks who care enough about KC music to read and contribute to a rather amazing piece of ongoing discourse. I can imagine the occasional chuckle the KC guys must experience when they read a post that has significantly over- or under-analyzed something they've done. ET'ers can be a rather serious lot! And there are times when I wonder if I have been "reading too much Elephant Talk"! When the e-mail notification comes, I drop everything and go to it! If you have followed Ade's lyrics through KC, his solo work, and The Bears, you know that he has a wonderful sense of humor, both lyrically and musically. Certainly Ade has referred to some posters as "turds" and frankly, I can see why. (re: Krap postings, etc.). Discourse and disagreement are wonderful, emotional attacks are not. Imagine if hundreds or thousands of folks discussed you and your work with the fervor that shows up in ET. Although Ade and the guys may get put off on occasion, as we all would, I suspect they just as often enjoy ET. Derogatory? I don't think so. A light-hearted poke of fun? Perhaps. An acknowledgement that ET is a part of the KC experience? Yep. Loren ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 12:42:47 EDT From: Beatlsherm at aol dot com Subject: ET Mentioned in Prozakc Regarding the "derrogatory" comment about ET in Prozakc- all is relative. I loved hearing him sneer that out, smile on face, at the Saturday Nashville show...and having the crowd swell with "yeeeeeeaaaaaaaaah"'s. Derrogatory or not, I can certainly enjoy it. And did. I was cerrtainly impressed by Trey's bass live...pops out much more robustly than on the album. However, I think the highlight of the Nashville shows for me (well, non-musical highlight at least) was Adrian making a comment about Robert's "Butt getting tired" after he popped a string and had to briefly stop. Happy Memorial Day- Sherm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 12:58:22 EDT From: Hocow at aol dot com Subject: Boots again The following is a post I made to the guest book and thought might be relevant here. It is in regard to Fripp's latest statements in his diary on the subject. At the risk of reigniteing our second most trying thread, I feel it is relevant because of the outside points of view included in Fripp's diary. Today's Fripp diary (May 28)is probably his best and most well rounded editorial on bootlegging to date. He displays the positions of several musicians on bootlegging, some who share Fripp's opposition and some who reluctantly or enthusiastically accept it. It was a well rounded discussion followed by 2 Crim fans rationalization of their own bootlegging with a point by point rebuttal by mister Fripp. All Crim fans should read this before taking it upon themselves to tape a concert or duplicate a cd. I coincidentally was on the verge of burning a collector's club "best of" for a dear friend who is a fan but less rabid than myself. I know he is never going to shell out 96 smackers to subscribe but I think he would enjoy the music. I have resisted doing this in the past because I was explicitly told not to duplicate club releases when I joined. Today's diary reminded me why I should not do this. If I want to share the music I'll just have to play the cd's for my friend rather than give him a copy. It also made me think back to the first time I flew across the country to see KC on the Lark's tour and took a couple of pathetic flash photos. I don't beleive Fripp's position was as well known then. If I had the ability I would have taped the show. As an obsessed fan this was a document of a "once in a lifetime experience." It would have been wrong then, but I would have rationalized that I needed a momento to relive this great event. There were no concert recordings at the time. In today's world I cannot see why anyone would want to bootleg KC. The archive releases and collectors club releases have provided ample legal opportunities to experince live Crim to the extent that a recording can be a live experience. The promise of bootleg tv makes it even more irrelevant. Why screw up your enjoyment of the moment to surreptiously steal a recording that is going to be available to you anyway? I've distracted myself out of enjoying a double trio concert just by over analyzing who is playing what (where's Trey?). The distraction of taping and worrying about being busted has got to wreck the concert for at a minimum, yourself. Why bother? Brad Wilmot ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 12:10:16 -0400 From: "Daniel J. Goodwin" Subject: Why all the fuss? I've sat here through countless pannings of TCOL and I've been more and more alienated as each Elephant Talk comes in. It seems to me that Crimson fans have always been open minded and very flexible enthusiasts. However, with this record, it appears that nobody cares about sitting and listening to a record for what it is. RED this, Discipline that, Starless this........Enough already. Our friends in Crimson have always made great records that are sometimes love at first listen or a like a growing fungus that finally sticks....Not to mention the fact that they have always made records for themselves, never once considering the viewpoint of the fans. This, along with their neverending innovations, is what made them likeable. Now, I am finding myself sick of all of you posting to ET, up in arms about the fact that Crimson has made a record that is more year 2000 than 2020. Big deal. This isn't their gift to you, it is THEIR RECORD...So please, for the decency of music and artistic freedom, stop and listen to yourselves for just a moment. Realize how ridiculous you are for posting your self serving opinions on the new record and Crimson in general. Leave Robert Fripp alone at performances...you don't need an autograph.....Stop worrying about what guitar strings he used on RED, and how he got that infinite sustain....He is a professional musician, and what that usually entitles is having a personal unique voice on your instrument. Why would anybody want to copy his sound...IT IS HIS SOUND!!! FIND A NEW HOBBY IF ALL YOU ARE GOING TO DO IS COMPLAIN, THEN ASK WHAT TO USE TO GET FRIPP'S SOUND...... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 13:34:45 EDT From: Wilcox660 at aol dot com Subject: Reviews, reviewers & stuff Dear people - relax & enjoy. Last time I checked, KC is comprised of 4 guys who happen to play their instruments pretty well. Having met all 4 involved on several occasions ( and, PLEASE, I don't say this to drop names - so don't go there!) they're regular guys with occasionally questionable taste in clothes. No miracles were performed, no water walked upon. So let's lighten up a bit on the hero worship. best - John A.Wilcox ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 18:31:43 +0000 From: Luisc Subject: 1st poor KC album "the construKcyion of light" is for me the 1st bad KC album,I'm very disapointed with fripp. "Tony & Bill please come back" could be the title album.trey gunn has no insperation and Pat drums sounds allways the same. I know it's not easy to replace Tony & bill but fripp & belew can do better than this. The pojekcts cds are much better tham this. luis ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 14:50:51 -0300 From: "Gustavo Luis Enriquez" Subject: CDs TO SELL Hi ETers ! I have King Crimson related Cds and prog releases to sell. If you're interested, please contact me at pcgeonline at house dot com dot ar BELEW ADRIAN: Guitar as orchestra DGM ARTISTS: Sometimes God Hides HAMMILL PETER: X my heart HELDON: Electronic Guerilla / It's always Rock and Roll (70's french prog in the Fripp-Eno vein - Double cd set) SAGITTARIUS: Present Tense (USA 60's Psychedelia) SOLARIS: 1990 (Prog - Hungary's Double cd set) LANDBERK: Indian Summer (Sweden 90's prog) EMBRYO: Reise (70's Krautrock w/eastern influences) PRIMITIVE RADIO GODS: Rocket Gustavo Enriquez Buenos Aires - Argentina Contact pcgeonline at houseware dot com dot ar ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 19:04:22 +0100 From: mph2 Subject: de gustibus non disputandum est Just like to say that I had mixed feelings about TCoL on the first few listens. Liked some elements, didn't like others. Then on the tenth listen it blew my head off. A total Aufhebung. Nice. By the way, those of you posting on the time-delay associated with V-drums: 'Latency' does not mean what you think it means (that includes you, Pat). Look it up in a dictionary. Cheers, Harvey the invisible rabbit. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 14:17:19 EDT From: GenoTT at aol dot com Subject: I Have a Dream I'll agree with a few other comments I've read: "I Have a Dream" is the only part of TCoL that gets on my nerves. (The rest may send my friends into shock and give me nightmares, but nothing else gets on my nerves.) The reason is very simple: it's dated. Most of Crimson's themes have avoided being tied to a certain place or time. The only exception I can immediately think of is "Happy Family" and, partly for the same reason, it's the only other KC song I usually skip. This is only a small complaint: I love TCoL and it's nice to be discussing an all-new Crim album for the first time (I was a mere 15 at the release of Thrak). I think it would be nice to hear "Larks IV" done live as a complete instrumental, but then it's not up to me, is it? Robert, Adrian, Trey, Pat, thanks for another masterpiece. Looking forward to seeing KC in the US, assuming I can find someone masochistic enough to go with me. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 17:04:41 -0400 From: David Carswell Subject: Re- J.Robinson - The Nice & King Crimson >Wonder if The Nice ever considered a reunion tour? I'd pay very good money >to see them perform some of their classics (especially if P.P. Arnold >appeared; though I guess they wouldn't be burning the American flag this >time). It was great to hear that Emerson was performing & chatting at the >Smithsonian in recent ELP digests. The Nice were an underrated band, and >it's true that they don't get played nearly as much as ELP, which's a >shame. In a recent ELP Digest the following info was posted: This is a followup to an item from David Gooding from a previous digest on the Ginger Pig Social Club featuring Lee Jackson. They came over to Bermuda in July 1999 to play a few mainly private gigs but I was able to see them at a charity gig for MS. The music was great, pretty much as David described and I also had the opportunity to chat with Lee in the break. He graciously signed my Nice CD and told me what he had been up to since the breakup of the Nice. The most amazing piece of news from Lee was that the Nice had reformed for a surprise gig at Keith Emerson's mothers 80th (I think) birthday party. Keith had a big Glen Miller type band as the main event but there was an extra set of drums & equipment in the background. After the band had finished Keith, Lee & Brian got up and did a set of old Nice numbers. Lee explained that they had discussed the numbers to do over the phone and didn't have a reheasal as such and so were a little rusty but apparently a good time was had by all. One of Keith's sons got up and was jamming with them on keyboards. Like David I can recommend the Ginger Pig Social Club as a good a night out. David Carswell ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 17:37:58 -0400 (CLT) From: "Miguel Farah F." Subject: Re: Derogatory Elephant Talk Reference > >Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 17:38:51 EDT >From: ASchulberg at aol dot com >Subject: Derogatory Elephant Talk Reference > >In a message dated 05/27/2000 4:24:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >et at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk writes: > >> P.S. Congratulations to ET for being mentioned in a Crim song. > >So, how do we all feel about Adrian's derogatory reference to Elephant Talk >in ProzaKc Blues? Seems that some of the previous duologues and diatribes >affected him deeply enough to foster lyrical inspiration. Anybody bothered by >the mention? I think it's the nature of the beast - almost all of the music mailing lists I'm subscribed to contain a high percentage of bitching and whining against its band (with variable degrees of truth, of course): paperlate, tadream (you'd think sometimes it's a list for people that can't stand Tangerine Dream!), and the ytsejam being the most notable examples. When a new album is not completely perfect in the sense of every last subscriber (which is, of course, completely impossible), there's GOING to be whining and complaining. You just have to learn to live with it... Then again, I don't think Adrian Belew or Robert Fripp would actually prefer a mailing list composed of grovellers that only posts stuff "I bow down bwefore you, oh, living incarnation of the Musical Deity. I think all of your albums are completely perfect.", wouldn't they? (I suspect Edgar Froese, would in a way like the idea, though) -- MIGUEL FARAH // miguel at webhost dot cl #include // http://www.webhost.cl/~miguel <*> "Trust me - I know what I'm doing." - Sledge Hammer ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 17:52:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Darryl Subject: re: *ISLANDS* ISLANDS is the only 70's KC release I have yet to hear and/or purchase, so I can't comment on it directly. As far as songs that take time to get use to(or never sink in) there are many in the Crimso catalog. To this day I always skip 'Moonchild', all the 'Peace' songs, 'Lady Of The Dancing Water', 'We'll Let You Know', 'The Mincer' and 'Providence'. Much of THRaKaTTaK is hard to get used to, but still good. I haven't heard any of the ProjeKcts yet. I think one of the reasons there is so few mellow or soft parts on CONSTRUKCTION is that Fripp & co. feel a lot of fans liked their harder 73-74 material and hated their more experimental stuff from the 69-72 era. I've read in different magazines and books that talk about Crimson's early work as being filled with seemingly pointless filler to get you ready for the good parts. I think some of the 69-72 stuff sounds good only if your completely stoned, but otherwise sounds like of waste of recording tape. The 80's material seems much more 'accesible' than a lot of the early songs. I've listened to IN THE COURT OF... a million times but still think the majority of 'Moonchild' seems pointless. It would have been a good idea if maybe a minute or so of the almost inaudible stuff was on there, but 10 minutes! I actually liked the first two minutes and think that part should have been extended more. There is a lot of talk here about KC albums growing on the listener, but I think some of the mellower-experimental stuff(no matter how many times you listen to it) still sounds boring. When I heard RED I thought it was too commercial and poppy, but now I love it except for 'Providence' of course. I think a lot of people are going to love CONSTRUKCTION because it will grow on them and is hard-rocking all the way through. Yes, I wouldn't have minded a 'Matte Kudasai' or 'I Talk To The Wind' on the album, but those kind of songs don't seem to be as timeless as the harder-stuff. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 19:17:03 -0400 From: "Harry Spade" Subject: re:Islands I feel the samy way about Islands. It tends to sound like a long lullaby. While it's not one of my favorites (Larks' Tongues in Aspic holds that position at the moment), I appreciate the fact that not every album sounds the same. Harry Spade ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 21:46:25 -0300 From: luprates Subject: Re:Derogatory Elephant Talk reference and a few more words As far as i'm concerned,Ade's damn right in his statement about ET readers. And now, a bit of comments about the drumming in the album--considering that I have no reason to lean deeper in any sort of argument towards the bass and the guitars;I just think of them to be perfect.--since most people are flaming Pat Mastelotto,and so far,I haven't been convinced by the outlines used to show any inferiority in his drumming(by itself,and compared to Bruford),and all I can do is to write a few words: Why don't you try playing what he does on the album,huh? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 23:24:04 EDT From: "MALCOLM XERXES" Subject: LARKS' TALES FROM TOPOGRASPIC OCEANS SUNDAY MAY 30/2000/16:14 PACHYDERMIC PARLIAMENT, Good Morrow, one and all! DISCLAIMER: The subjective opinions expressed herein are my own, unsupported and unendorsed by any party other than myself and (possibly) those who are practitioners of what MISTER RUPERT HINE calls "THE ECSTACY OF FREE THOUGHT". Sacred cows will not only be kicked, but slaughtered, so you have been warned. Any emotional distress suffered by you as a result of reading my dissident writings will be of your own making, so I don't want to read any whingeing about how I defecated and urinated all over an album or group that has/had sentimental vaue to you, or proved definitively to you that not only do we live in a Benevolent Universe, but that there IS a GOD! That being said... Firstly, I must proclaim that I prefer the term "Art Rock" to "Progressive Rock", loathing as I do the diminution of the term to "prog-rock", "prog-metal", et cetera. The stigma attached to the label is analogous to that of so-called Jazz/Rock Fusion: no 2 people mean the same thing when they say it. (To my ear, "Fusion" is just Funk - another hotly-contested word! - without lyrics, but with more adventurous time signatures) Also, the willful and conscious efforts on the part of Art Rock practitioners/musicians to achieve and maintain an optimum level of virtuosity and musicianship (that need not be inflicted upon the audience every second of every day) can be said to be artful: the New Oxford Dictionary of English defines "art" as a noun meaning "...a skill at doing a specified thing, typically one acquired through practice...producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power...." "THIS FRIPP" has spoken of how, if one has a vocabulary of 1000 notes, but chooses to play only 3 of them during a given composition, then a tremendous amount of authority is granted to those 3 notes. This is why most GENESIS and EMERSON, LAKE & PALMER music does not move me, the latter only becoming meaningful to me when the late MISTER COZY POWELL - a very clean and powerful Drummer who strikes his instruments with conviction - joined the group. (After BILFORD turned them down. O, how I wish he had said yes to the album, video and subsequent tour! I say this with all due respect to the late, LAMENTed MISTER POWELL) MICHAEL E. BOWERS is to be lauded for his tenacity at brainwashing himself into liking an album - KING CRIMSON: "the construKCtion of light" - that, by his own admission, he was actively conditioning himself to dislike before he had even heard it: "...YES was dead, PHIL COLLINS and GENESIS had sold out, [as YES & ASIA did, presumably] PETER GABRIEL [another sellout?) and PETER HAMMILL couldn't captivate me like they used to, and now this crap [KING CRIMSON: "DISCIPLINE"] from my favourite band of all time...I was going to listen to this until I liked it...but neither "DISCIPLINE" nor "BEAT" could inspire me the way the old stuff did. It still doesn't...I quickly forgot KING CRIMSON." SHOULD a new album inspire us "the way the old stuff did"? Or is it our responsibility (and privilege) to listen to new music with new ears? Or is MICHAEL E. BOWERS to be chastised and chided for hypocrisy and libel? He writes of how it took a full 3 years[!] for "LARKS' TONGUES IN ASPIC" to become his "...favourite of all time (still standing!)", then goes on to state that "...YES: 'TALES FROM TOPOGRAPHIC OCEANS' was a great album, one of their highest marks! Those who'll tell you otherwise are the same that gave everything CRIMSO did after Court the boot...." MICHAEL, MICHAEL, MICHAEL! I am afraid that this just isn't so, for the following reasons: a) I have been following KRIMSON since 1968'S "THE CHEERFUL INSANITY OF GILES, GILES & FRIPP", and I own/have owned all of their/FRIPP'S recorded output to date, even going so far as to buy additional copies to obtain alternative covers; b) Likewise with YES/BILFORD; c) I have actively listened to "TALES FROM TOPOGRAPHIC OCEANS" under various conditions and in various states of mind since 1989, not wanting to give it an unfair, prejudiced audition; d) I admire the courage of the attempt at a concept album of such scope and magnitude; e) I LOVE the gatefold album cover for same; it is easily one of my favourites; f) I HATE the music recorded on the vinyl contained therein: the produc- tion, the composition, the drumming(!), ad nauseum, ad infinitum! To my ear, this album jockeys with YES: "TALK" for the position of the nadir in their discography; f) I have actively championed the KRIMSON cause nearly all my life, not by excluding works such as the under-rated KING CRIMSON: "LIZARD", the much-maligned KING CRIMSON: "EARTHBOUND", or the highly-touted KING CRIMSON: "U.S.A."; g) You assume that anyone who is not of like mind about the YES album in question to be incapable of recognising the regal splendour of life at the KRIMSON court; h) Your "reasoning" is both fallacious and facile, ignoring the fact that it is possible to actively dislike chocolate ice cream, yet retain a penchant for strawberry and vanilla. I wonder why it is that self-proclaimed acolytes of "Progressive Rock" are not progressive in their own thinking, embracing instead the propaganda strategies and tactics of the Zealot? How fortunate that Religion and Sexuality are not discussed here in "ELEPHANT TALK"! Imagine the erroneous assumptions to be made about a song like "2 HANDS"! (Although the recent controversy surrounding the misbehaviour of the late MILES DAVIS may herald a reverse of that trend, possibly leading to still further splinter factions than presently exist) I had been avoiding this issue, but I suppose it must be addressed now that I have held forth for so long about someone else's tastes and the expression in writing thereof: "the construKCtion of light". I confess that I was prejudiced about this recording, about FRIPP/SYLVIAN: "DAMAGE", about the album which followed YES: "CLOSE TO THE EDGE", in each case because of the Drums and Drumming. I have great respect for MESSRS. WHITE & MASTELOTTO: in their bailiwick, they have moved me, most notably on YES: "DRAMA" & "KYRIE", respectively. Whenever there is a drastic change in style and sound, I am discomfited by it, particularly when the outgoing Drummer is one of some sensitivity, as are MESSRS. STEVE JANSEN & BILFORD (MISTER JERRY MAROTTA to a lesser degree), but I also recognise my role in Music as an audient and I take that role quite seriously. Toward this end, I actively avoided reading about or engaging in conversation with anyone about KING CRIMSON: "THE CONSTRUkcTION OF LIGHT" until I had purchased and played my own copy at least once. Having done so, I was reminded of my initial response to KING CRIMSON: "BEAT" & KING CRIMSON: "3 OF A PERFECT PAIR", which is to say that whereas I immediately embraced KING CRIMSON: "DISCIPLINE" track for track, I was repelled and repulsed by the follow-up records primarily because I did not like the Snare Drum sound, despite enjoying the composition and execution thereof on each album. I like "the BILFORD clang", but it is not for me to impose that upon him and any musical environment in which he chooses to interact. Similarly, I raved about KING CRIMSON: "STARLESS & BIBLE BLACK" & KING CRIMSON: "RED" - again, track for track - as soon as they hit my turntable, but had to learn to listen past not only the Snare Drum sound, but the overall production and engineering of KING CRIMSON: "LARKS' TONGUES IN ASPIC", despite again being well pleased with the compositions. Once again, I enjoy the compositions and their execution, but I am having to listen past the Drumming, not because BILFORD is absent, but because I simply loathe and despise the ROLANDtm V-DRUMtm system: I disliked them when I brought home PROJEkcT 2: "SPACE GROOVE", and I love them less and less with each successive EXPOSURE. Despite all this, the record has not left my stereo/computer systems since I purchased it, barring brief forays into "IN THE COURT OF THE CRIMSON KING", ANDERSON BRUFORD WAKEMAN HOWE & YES: "UNION", the better to help me to understand my antipathy to V-DRUMtm. I am EXTREMELY pleased by the loudness of the mix of this album: this is the volume that I had hoped for on KING CRIMSON: "THRAK" after the sublime experience of KING CRIMSON: "VROOM", which had the presence I crave, very RED levels indeed! As for the ongoing debate about Drum Synthesisers versus Acoustic Drums, I am an endorser of both TAMAtm SUPERSTAR Drums & SIMMONStm Electronic Drums, as well as (predominantly) ZILDJIANtm Cymbals & YORKVILLEtm Amplification (because the SIMMONStm model is no longer available), so I have extensive experience and knowledge of the pros & cons of each. I do not even like the cosmetic appearance of V-DRUMtm, but I very much enjoy the "tabletop" feel of SIMMONStm, especially the original polycarbonate "riot shields" that BILFORD dislikes so much because whenever he struck them, he would get "these horrible little shocks that shoot up through your wrist", a problem I have not yet encountered, perhaps because I have always gone for that feel when I tune my Snare Drum, and perhaps because when I was in the school Drum Club and the local Drum Corps, those of us who did not own practice pads would play on inch-thick plywood with LUDWIGtm 3S Hickory sticks. (Possibly, I have been inured to any attendant discomfort thereby) Personally, I find that the more a manufacturer tries to make a Synthesiser feel like its Acoustic analogue, the less I like it. The innate appeal of a Synthesiser is that it is NOT an Acoustic instrument, so one feels compelled to play in a non-traditional manner. Regarding the plastic soundcages, they are a means for the Sound Engineer to more readily isolate Kit Drums in the mix, capturing a more "studio-type" sound without amplified instruments bleeding into that mix, rather than a means by which other players onstage can be protected from the percussive onslaught. (This is another example of "commercial expediency" combining with the prevalent laziness of the modern Sound Engineer, thus leading to still more anti-Drummer sentiment when combined with allegations of noise complaints from MISTER ROBERT FRIPP) It is not rocket science to mic' a set of Drums and "get a good Drum sound": one requires a minimum of 4 microphones (2 if you are at war with EASTASIA or EURASIA), a well-tuned (preferably Concert Pitch) set of high quality drums (that sound good) with heavy-duty hardware, and proper technique (what FRIPP refers to as "craft"). After that, it is purely a matter of playing the Dynamics required by the music and the limitations of the venue. (It has been my experience that Kit Drums do not usually require mic'ing, and that when they are, this encourages overplaying on the part of lesser musicians) In closing, I thank you all for your time and attention, and I do hope that none - MICHAEL E. BOWERS in particular - have been unduly offended. Rather, it is my hope that we can all receive insight about our respective biases and how they inform the ways the ways that we communicate (and miscommunicate) with each other. Hello, KADE, keeping well, then, are you? Guten Tag, MARKUS, mein Freund von weither und Freund der Berge! "There's nothing you can do that can't be done" - JOHN LENNON -MX 23:24 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 10:49:43 +0200 From: "Henrik Ditlevsen" Subject: GIG REVIEW: First gig in Copenhagen Hi all! My name is Henrik and I'n new to this list. Yesterday I got the chance to see/hear Crimso for the first time in my life - and that is a long time waiting as a started to listen to band in '72. But here they were for their first concert of two in Copenhagen, and I must say it was a killer concert, the sound was superb - every instrument was clear in the mix, the playng was good (as Fripp puts it in his diary today: "Mistakes but not train wrecks tonight") and the set was more or less what I hoped for: ProzaKc Blues TCoL Oyster Soup FraKctured Dinosaur One Time Cage (Belew on acoustic) SSEDD (new - very good - version) Vrooom Impro, maybe PX's The Business of Pleasure ????????????? Frying Pan Larks IV - I have a Dream Encores ToaPP (Belew solo acoustic) P3's Deception of the Trush Heroes The highlights for me were FraKctured, a very good and hard version of Vrooom, ToaPP and Deception of the Trush (especially Gunn's playing). As I haven't seen the band live before it was fun to watch the two very different guitarists, Belew jumping around, the sweat pouring from him and Mr. Fripp sitting on his stool with no sign of a single drop of perspiration. Both played some amazing stuff, the "guitarpiano" solo at the end of Oystersoup as one of many highlights. Before the concert I was a little sceptically about how the band would sound without Levin/Bruford but Gunn and Mastelotto did the job and more. The both worked VERY hard, especially Mastelotto (it looked like he counted inside his head the whole concert through), and it was a joy to see Gunns fingers dancing over the Warr guitar. Best of all............ I'm going to see them again tonight :-) the best Henrik ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 14:28:11 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?B?RGFnIFN3YW72?= Subject: GIG REVIEW: Copenhagen gig There i was, after 17 years worth of wait. I had to travell 500 km from Sweden but it didn't bother me. Was it worth the wait ? yes ! I don 't think the new album is the greatest thing since sliced bread but ,as i suspected, the material was a lot better live. It's great to see a band in a 1000 seater place but if Adrian can't stand cig.smoke i'm not sure Copenhagen is the best place to start a tour. The setlist was the same as i Nashville, only the runningorder hade been changed . The first track: "Prozakblues" was a strong opener and sounded a lot better with "real vocal" "TCOL","Oyster,""Fractured" followed and there was some "trainwrecks" in the playing ( specially Fripp in the fast part of "Frac.") but the coverd them up pretty good. When the first guitarsynt notes of "Dinosaur" cut through, the audience started to wake up. It was slightly abbreviated and i think it made the song justice. "One time" "Vroom" "Sex, sleep." also sounded really good. They performed the rest of the new album and left the stage. Adrian returned for the acustic TOAPP and then they played "Heaven and Earth" as a trio ( without Adrian ) Bowie's "Heroes" closed the set.It was nice to hear the two "Heroes-guitar-players" perform this great song but here the V-drums came short. I think Pat played excellent the whole evening but here i wished he was Dennis Davies. V-Drums ? On some of the tracks they worked really well but i was standing there the many times thinking: "This would sound so good with real drums". He hit the drums so hard but the poor dynamic of the drums didn't allow it to cut thru, a shame.Overall the sound of the band was great Next tour: plexiglass, earplugs, real big woody drums, thanks ! I didn't miss Tony L. for a second and Adrian was good and smiling as usual. Seeing Fripp for the first time is a experience. Half hidden in the dark, secretly smiling and looking extremly English. But he's Fripp and i like it. See you next time ! ------------------------------ Date: 28 May 00 08:16:29 MDT From: claus dot poulsen at usa dot net Subject: GIG REVIEW: 27/5 - relatively short review Hello friends. I have to pass You the good news: The King is alive and well, and have never been better. The concert was at "Amager Bio", a re-built cinema; 1000 standing audients. No Smoking (due to Adrian's allergy, as We all know now). It was just too much of the good stuff at the same time! The band was in very good form, playing fiercely. They were having lots of fun, teasing each other and enjoying the music - Yes, this is the King Crimson Rock Band! Robert didn't even look once at the audience during the concert. But I'm sure we meant something to him. Anyway, it seemed he enjoyed himself, smiling and watching Belew closely - a lot of communication between them in the front line. Same thing in the back line. Several among the audience were truly shocked at hearing Trey's bass sound and fast lines on the Warr. Pat was seriously trying to smash those goddam plastic pads (it seemed) - powerfull. He's a very expressive player and you can watch his face how he's doing. Sometimes troubled during a tricky passage. Then he's angrily attacking the drum kit like a whirlwind. Then smiling sweetly during the highlights. Interesting orchestral / industrial stuff. More, please! And why don't we call him "Pad Mastelotto"???? (ha, ha). You know the set list. My highlights were FraKctured ("Beast", I say!) and a funky slow groove version of Cage (Adrian on acoustic guitar (arpeggio), Pat with brushes, Trey with Rubber Bass and Robert on guitar-as-piano, smiling). In general, it was good to hear the songs live - some of the arrangements have changed quite a bit! Thank you for a good concert - under good conditions. Expensive goodies at the stand: Beginners guide to KCCC, PX, Mastica CDs and other stuff. When I got home I had a good surprise: the PROJEKCT X CD - but that's another story! BNut hey, That's my opnion! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 20:17:40 +0200 From: Lars Brondum Subject: GIG REVIEW: Amger Bio concert Amager Bio 27/5-00 Copenhagen, Denmark Excellent gig! They played great!! I like Pat's V-drums, sorta adds a touch of the new millennium, Fripp played some outstanding solos, Ade did some great vocals and really far out solos, Trey did an incredible job. I loved his stick solo (in the guitar register) at the end of Thrush). I think The ConstruKction of Light CD is far superior any album after Discipline. It stands for everything that is Crimson: Dissonant, Bombastic, Virtuosic, with some twisted humor, melancholy and free form improvisation thrown in. ProzacK Blues TCoL, FraKctured, LtiA IV are pieces of larger structure with thorough development of ideas from earlier works. Sublime stuff. The set: ProzacK Blues The ConstruKction of Light Oyster Soup FraKctured Dinosaur One Time People (Cage) Sex Sleep Eat Dream VROOM Heaven & Earth Into the Frying Pan Larks Tongues in Aspic IV Coda: I have a dream Three of a perfect pair (acoustic version) The Deception of Thrush Heroes Lars B ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #681 ********************************