Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #677 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 677 Thursday, 25 May 2000 Today's Topics: What about Giles? The Setlist? is a rational discussion of V-Drums possible? Re: Sustainer King Crimson Chart Placings Re: Exposure Re: the Reviews the deception of the thrush? re: The Konstruction of Krap Slightly bizarre sighting (TCoL free post) Listening to Soundscapes The returning of Light Re: The Construkction of Light Why is there "no smoking" at KC concerts Mastelotto And what a time we had. G3 to TCOL TCOL and opinions Gregg Bendian Recommend me the band called Disipline Bugger off!!!!!!!!!! balderdash Soundbites? Fripp - a rockstar. "Thanks" and "Listening pt. 2) The ConstruKction of Light GIG REVIEW: 12th and Porter, Friday, May 19, 2000 ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 04:51:41 PDT From: "Dan Ceo" Subject: What about Giles? I hear a lot of people talking about Bill Bruford (don't get me wrong, he's great!) and a lot of people chastising Pat Mastelotto (he's pretty good, got a long way to go, though). But I haven't heard anyone talk about Michael Giles. Sure, he hasn't been in KC for almost 30 years now, but I'd like to see some opinions on him. IMHO he's definitely one of the greatest drummers Fripp ever had with him and definitely the most underrated of all time. Dan D. Lion ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 10:34:04 -0600 From: Matt McCaffree Subject: The Setlist? So. . . I was wondering if anyone made a note of what exactly was played at the shows last weekend. I thought I read in the Guestbook that ToaPP was played and I wasn't anticipating material that old to be "whipped out." Thanks. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 11:50:17 -0400 From: Chad Ossman Subject: is a rational discussion of V-Drums possible? Well, my subject line pretty much sums it up. Instead of just spewing hatred all the V-Drums, can we try to find out exactly what makes KC consider them a valuable asset? I just read through recent entries in Pat Mastelotto's online diary, and he is clearly struggling with the technical limitations of his V-Drum kit, in particular a faulty mixer. But he also voices a general complaint of their poor sound. (I'm paraphrasing of course) So taking into account PM's own frustrations in addition to many fans' dislike of the instrument, it becomes increasingly difficult for me to see why Fripp, Belew & Gunn found them so inspirational in forming Projeckt Two, and then to carry them through into KC proper. For reference, here's the Roland information: http://www.rolandus.com/PRODUCTS/MI/VDRUMS.HTM Can someone (preferably a percussionist) please help illuminate in layman terms what makes V-Drums a great advance over, say, the kind of electronic kit Bill Bruford used in the 80s & 90s KC? best, Chad Ossman ___________Pseudo.com_______FringeDigital.com___________ Animator Freelance Designer 212.358.0409 f 425.984.9950 cossman at pseudo dot com e clo at fringedigital dot com http://www.pseudo.com w http://www.fringedigital.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 13:20:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Art Cohen Subject: Re: Sustainer Claus opined: >D a v i d B e a r d s l e y (xouoxno at virtulink dot com) asks: "As for Fripp, >I think he owns a Fernandez" He must be one of the first users of the >Fernandez sustainer pick-up system. I think he started using it on "The >sailor's tale" on "Islands". At least I'm sure he got one by the end of >1972, because you can hear his sustaining note FADING IN on LIVE >recordings >(the bruford/cross/wetton/fripp incarnation). That would be impossible >without a magnetic feedback of some kind. Um.... volume pedal? Volume knob on the guitar? I'd be willing to bet that Fripp wasn't using a Fernandes *anything* in the 70s. Is it time to start a Fripp's Gear FAQ? --Art ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 10:39:44 PDT From: "David Reilly" Subject: King Crimson Chart Placings In response to a recent post asking whether any KC albums had ever charted I can give the following info. The placings in brackets are for UK/USA charts respectively. In The Court (5/28) In The Wake (4/31) Lizard (30/-) Islands (30/76) Earthbound (-/-) Larks' Tongues (20/61) Starless (28/64) Red (45/66) USA (-/-) Discipline (41/45) Beat (39/52) Three Of A (30/58) Thrak (58/83) TCoL (1/1) (ha! ha! only joking) This is my first post to ET having been a subscriber for just a few months. I bought TCoL on its release date without having heard a single note. I find it exhilarating listening and enjoy the V-Drum antics of Mr P. Hope this won't be my last post David Reilly ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 13:11:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Art Cohen Subject: Re: Exposure Joseph wondered: >5. Bought EXPOSURE on CD this weekend. Is DISINGAGED >the first GRUNDGE song ever?! I would guess that the first "grunge" song (or first "punk rock" song) would be from the Velvet Underground, the Stooges, or someone even earlier than them, depending on your definition. --Art ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 14:05:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Art Cohen Subject: Re: the Reviews Joseph also wondered: >2.Most of the post on ET concerning TCOL seem positive >to me?! So why are Eters so upset about a minority of >opinions, that many will change later? I think it's the spectacularly ignorant nature of the negative reviews that gets people's dander up. I recall Fripp stating quite some time ago -- when work on this album first began -- that it would not appeal to a certain type of Crimson fan, and that those fans would be better off not owning or listening to the album. Yet, as the evidence shows, not only will those fans buy and listen to the album, they will then feel as if some incredible wrong has been done to them because it doesn't live up to their entirely unrealistic expectations (even though they were warned in advance that they wouldn't like it). And they will then post these feelings to ET. Take, for example, Thomas Kozal's posting in the same ET. This album offended him so much that he refers to it as "Krap" in his Subject: line, and has promised to post lengthy reviews to Amazon and other (presumably commerce-oriented) sites. Yet, the only criticisms he actually offers are that the music sounds like picking exercises (apparently he is unaware of the band's 1980's output) and that Belew is (to him) absent except for his processed voice on the first track. I begin to suspect that Mr. Kozal may not have listened to any of the other tracks, since (a) there are two other songs where Adrian sings in his (more-or-less) "normal" voice and (b) (as others have pointed out) Adrian played all the guitar solos bar one on the album. This album -- far more than any of the Projekct releases -- has Adrian's distinctive sense of musicality all over it. I think Mr. Kozal's review presents, in a nutshell, exactly why people are upset with the negative reviews; it manages to combine willful ignorance with a mind-boggling level of self-righteousness that one rarely encounters outside the circles of "prog rock" fandom. Most of us, I think, are excited not only by the release of a new King Crimson album, but by the beginning of a new phase in KC's ongoing development, and to have the album repeatedly slagged off by those who refuse to acknowledge the possibility (or difficulties) of musical growth (and who, for the most part, offer no actual *criticism* beyond "this sucks") is frustrating to say the least. It's obvious that Mr. K doesn't like the kind of music that King Crimson is currently making, yet instead of simply saying "I didn't like it", he feels the need to proclaim it, in no uncertain terms, to be "Krap" and unworthy of release. Most fans -- especially of complex music such as Crimson's -- recognize that it may take more than a single listening (or a single day) to form an objective opinion of a new work. But when the basement dwellers feel the need to spew their bile across the pages of ET, it makes the reading less enjoyable for all of us, and that's why the relatively small percentage of negative reviews have attracted so much attention. (IMO) --Art PS: Bought the album first thing this morning and have listened to ~2/3 of it. Overall, I'm enjoying it, although I found Frakctured to be a little underwhelming on first listening (but I'll reserve final judgement until it's had a little time to "sink in"). ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 11:26:39 PDT From: "chris childs" Subject: the deception of the thrush? I have been reading with interest the thread concerning artists personal lives and philosophies and their artistic contributions. This is a debate I had with myself a number of years ago. In my early twenties I devoured all the biographies I could. In particular Miles Davis and Glenn Gould. After reading Miles Davis autobiography I didnt listen to his music for about 18 months, because I found him to be an intensely dislikable individual, especially regarding his attitude towards women. However upon reflection I thought, why am I denying myself his music? The fact that yes, the man is a creep does not deny the fact that he is a brilliant musician. Does his personal life affect his musical ability in any way, shape, or form? The answer is no. I have a feeling this debate is a relatively new phenomenon. In the past twenty years there has become an obsession in the west about artists personal lives. With the proliferation of tabloid newspapers, shows like entertainment tonight, and the like, we know are made aware of every aspect of entertainers lives. Art, be it music, painting, acting, or writing affects all of us differently. Does the same music affect all of us the same way, no. Does it affect us the way the artist intended, probably not. Thinking about this, I made the vow a long time ago, to consciously try and not learn anything about artists personal lives. The only biographies I read now are based on political figures, because I believe their mindset is critical to how they form policies. I either enjoy and respect an artist in their field, or I dont. They are either talented (in my opinion) or they are not. Does it matter to me what music a politician likes, no. Does it matter what politics an artist believes in , the answer is still no. If a particular song has objectionable lyrics, I wont listen to it. Cheers Chris Childs ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 13:32:41 -0500 From: "Grant Colburn" Subject: re: The Konstruction of Krap Obviously everyone is entitled to their opinions of Crimson's music but it just bugs me when it seems negative opinions as these below seem to be based on a lack of information tied with a self delusions of grandeur. >The first being the recording of >fingering and picking exercizes that would be better left to the >practice room. Where have you been? Have you not heard ANY of the 80's Crimson recordings? Or the R. Fripp String Quintet? Or the League of Crafty Guitarists? Complex polyphonic picking "excercises" have been a part of the Fripp sound for almost 20 years. >The second is: and where's Belew during these? He might lend a >touch of humanity, or just plain MUSICALITY to these proceedings. Except for some parts of FraKctured I think He's playing during ALL of them. MUSICALITY is a matter of opinion of course. The performance of a 3 minute Webern 12 tone composition obviously has musicality even though the ''touch of humanity" may be minimal (along with most listeners actually enjoying the music itself!) >And where is Belew you might ask? Well, when he is around he is >strangled by production, his voice altered in most circumstances. You say this like somehow these things were done to Belew's voice against his will. Do you really think he was forced and didn't have a say in it? >Prozack Blues' >voice treatment gets old fast, and actually adds little to the tune. Your entitled to your opinion of course... >Besides guys, do you know what Prozac actually does? If you think >you do,it does for you the OPPOSITE of what it does for the rest of >the public. What does that mean? What "rest of the public" are you referring to? Those that DON'T need Prozac? My wife is on Prozac. It is a legitimate medication for depression hence its mention in ProzaKc Blues. The song to me is more or less about Belew being depressed when faced with the expectations of Crimson fans and their often unkind opinions of his involvement with Crimson (like YOUR post for example!). Where your concept of the "opposite" effect comes from is beyond me and makes NO sense. >The best word I can think of for Belew's performance is "strangled". >Strangled by the production and the ego of Fripp. Now I know why >Levin and Bruford are gone. They needed to breathe again. No, you don't know why! Again, why are you assuming that somehow Belew's performance was forced to be something OTHER than he intended it to be? As far as everything I've read Bruford and Levin both would have liked to be a part of the new Crimson. Perhaps Bruford's vision of new Crimson didn't match Fripp's at this point, but your connection between Belew being "strangled" and Bruford and Levin needing to breathe again is a stretch WAY beyond rational theorizing. Why if you like Crimson would you be afraid to have it guided by the production and ego of Robert Fripp? If you don't like Fripp, how can you enjoy Crimson? >The only real surprise is that Trey Gunn managed to do a good >imitation of a bass player using his Warr guitar. If you've heard Gunn in the last 8 years why would his playing be a surprise? >Much better than his playing on the Sylvian-Fripp stuff. Implying that somehow he wasn't a good bass player on Sylvian-Fripp? >Coming after buying the gatefold reissues of the first 4, this release >was better left in the can, or as a club release. It is not major >distribution level quality. Oh come on! If the first 4 albums of Crimson are what you consider the highlight of their career then its no wonder you're not happy. Once again it makes one wonder how a band like Crimson could have possibly had the audacity to release an album without consulting YOU first. I don't usually give people a hard time for voicing opinions that I don't agree with but HOW DARE YOU think that you are in any position to say what they should or should not do. Who the HELL are you anyway? If you're not happy with the album I'm sorry to hear it, but for you to think that its not even good enough to be released is just plain stupid on your part. With all the crap that is actually released by major labels, your comment regarding Crimson's new album is a direct slap in the face to these musicians who are all professionals at what they do. >A BIG dissapointment. Yeah, so was your nasty, evil, uninformed and unfeeling post. Somehow you think that the members of King Crimson aren't real people with feelings? Somehow you think that this album was easy to create? That they didn't work very hard to create what they did? Not only are you the type of fan that Crimson doen't need, you are the type of fan that NO band needs! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 14:34:12 -0400 From: Jim Bailey Subject: Slightly bizarre sighting (TCoL free post) Greetings all, Flipping through the t.v. channels the other day, I happened to pass the local country music video station. The title for the tune that had just finished was displayed: "Is There Life Out There?" by.... Reba McEntyre!!!! Unfortunately I wasn't able to tell if it had any resemblance to the KC tune of the same name, but personally I have my doubts ;-). No harm in hoping, though. Jim Bailey ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 15:20:25 -0400 From: Ted White Subject: Listening to Soundscapes In ET #676, Jason Peterson describes a Soundscapes concert at New York's Bottom Line and the people in the audience who talked through the entire concert. He's still upset about it, years after the fact. I sympathize with Jason, but maybe he missed Robert Fripp's announcement at the beginning to feel free to get up and walk around, and to converse. At least at the Birtchmere show he made a strong point of urging his audience *not* to sit in rapt attentive silence, but to incorporate his soundscapes into the general ambience of their social experience. --TW (Dr P) dc-et#6 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 20:51:29 +0100 From: Simon Calkin Subject: The returning of Light Thank goodness the last couple of ETs have contained some humour,self-awareness and (ha!0 sense of proportion. Thanks are due to Conor,Jason P,Art and "Formentera Man" (who he?) for this. Please can we get away from all this "I'm right,you're wrong" nonsense about the new album,and declare it a dead thread? The tour's the thing,now. Can't wait for the London gig.............. Simon Calkin Broadcast Engineering Broadcast Technology Resources, BBC Resources * Work: 0208 576 0910 * Fax: 0208 749 7853 * Room 4252 TV Centre, Wood Lane, London, W12 7RJ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 22:34:29 +0100 From: "David Janssen" Subject: Re: The Construkction of Light TCOL must be the worst King Crimson studio album ever. For the first time they sound like a tired old 70's rock dinosaur. Where are the dynamics, the shadings, the colours? The whole sound is very monochromatic. This is partly due to the awful drum sound which just sounds totally synthetic, especially the cymbal sound. The V-drums sounded great on the Projekcts but here they sound awful. The other problem is Trey Gunn's bass sound, it is so subterranean and muddy that it is difficult to hear exactly what he is doing. This means that the whole rhythm section is just a mushwith no real attack. Then there's the music; Prozac blues is just a joke. And as for Frakctured and Lark's Part 4, why bother to resurrect those old chestnuts, good as they were 25 years ago? Frakctured,especially, is little more than one phrase from Fracture repeated ad nauseam. It might make a good guitar craft exercise but a 9 minute album track? I don't think so. The only good bit is the 'piano' solo on 'Oyster', but two minutes hardly redeeems an hour -long album. In the past each incarnation of Crimson has managed to reinvent itself and say something new, but not this time. This is the most backward-looking Crimson album ever. Construkction of Light? Construkction of Shite. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 18:15:15 -0400 From: Block Dog Subject: Why is there "no smoking" at KC concerts >> Why is there "no smoking" at KC concerts >>- any one has astma? (very curios) Adrian is alergic, simple as that. Block ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 18:18:24 -0400 From: Block Dog Subject: Mastelotto >Definetly Mastelotto is a good drummer, otherwise Fripp would have never >recruited him. But definitely Bruford has a lot more expression on his >instrument. Something is missing on TCOL, it is not just about his V drums, >but his very soul. I think Pat removed any doubt about his ability and/or soul in Nashville this weekend. I agree that analog skins would be a richer experience but the V-Drums sounded great although a little low in the mix at times. Block ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 18:26:15 -0400 From: Block Dog Subject: And what a time we had. Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 17:21:41 -0400 From: Dave & Racquel Subject: GIG REVIEW: Nashville review And what a time we had. Great review and as I was at the Friday & Saturday show also I am in complete agreement with your summery of the event. (and what an event it was!) Thanks, Block -- Those with power and influence only feel themselves slowly sinking, and no matter how beautiful one's Titanic may be, the word "unsinkable" just makes the ocean hungry. David Wilcox ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 15:30:59 PDT From: "Nomad Stem" Subject: G3 to TCOL So I'm listening to my spanking new copy of TCOL and I just can't stop smiling thinking about all those people who couldn't figure out who that guy was making weird noises before the G3 shows a few years ago. Probably thought he was some old geezer, and wasn't it cute when he tried to join in on the end of show jams. Pleasant enough fellow he seemed. If they only could hear that same guy spraying wicked guitar on TCOL, especially on FraKctured. Nomad ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 23:20:25 +0100 From: Andrew Jones Subject: TCOL and opinions Conor critiqued a previous e-mail of mine: ">1 Ade's voice is processed on all the songs all the time- robbing the frequently bizarre lyrics of emotional or intellectual impact;>>- [quoting from a previous e-mail of mine] This is where Andrew loses me. I don't see how the use of effects, even when extreme, can do this. I can see how heavy processing can lead to a lack of perceived "intimacy", but I've never found KC to be about that sort of intimacy, per se (of course, this is one listener's opinion). Any vocal that does not travel straight from singer's mouth to listener's ear has been processed (that is to say, any recorded vocal - be it stored on CD, LP, 8 Trak, or wax cylinder). Mics, compressors, etc. all color the source, to one degree or another. Why not just state that you don't care for the sounds being used? That would reveal the subjective nature of the observation quite plainly." Well, thats probably down to the fact that I wrote the e-mail and not you. I've heard a fair amount of Ade's vocals from Zappa days onwards (but not all) and I can't say I connect to the various distortions of his voice used on the album. This is clearly personal taste and one not shared by Ade when he made the album. But it does distance my response from the lyrics- which I doubt is the intended effect. Of course for other people the processing might heighten their enjoyment. [Also quoted from a n earlier e-mail of mine]>>2. The drum sound- Pat's a great drummer but the electronic drum kit doesn't get that across;>> This seems to reflect a bias against electronic drum kits (the use of which our cherished BB pioneered so artfully in the "Discipline" era, as has been pointed out). Again, why not just state that you don't care for the sounds PM's currently working with? Or is this a mix issue? Its a bit of both- I prefer a well tuned, well miked, well mixed and well played acoustic drums to an electronic kit as a rule. However Project 3 was my favourite of all the projects, which of course relied on Pat's electronic drum kit a lot and to my surprise I didn't care much for Bruford's drumming on Project 1 (which is why Project 1 is my least favourite Project). For what its worth, I hope that a Project 3 Collectors Club CD comes out sometime or a Bootleg TV download. I do feel the mix is lacking on TCOL. This is a purely subjective view as I've had no access to the multi-tracks, but I prefer the mix on Project X (as well as the material on that album). Perhaps in a few months time, after much digging around I'll "unlock" the mix on TCOL and I'll change my view- but maybe not. I feel the rhythm section is under-represented on the TCOL mix to the detriment of the final work. Still looking forward to the London show... Andrew Jones PS A tip of my hat to those who can identify Project X's tracks played live- I'm seriously impressed. Its going to take a long, long time before I'll be able to do that... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 18:33:21 -0400 From: Moses Subject: Gregg Bendian Hello All, To Mr. Gokieli, who was wondering who Gregg Bendian is, he's a percussionist who would be mainly put in the 'modern jazz' category. He put out a fascinating free jazz album with Pat Metheny, Derek Bailey, and Paul Wertico called "The Sign of Four." It makes the ProjeKcts and Thrakkattack sound tame by comparison. I'd recommend it to adventurous listeners. It mixes live and studio tracks over 3(!) discs, and doesn't let up for a minute. And if you thought Pat Metheny was a 'smooth jazz' guitarist, think again! Jazzheads would have a hard time categorizing this as jazz, but that's where I had to look for it. Hope that helps, I really know nothing more about him, although if I saw more stuff by him, I'd seriously consider picking it up. Moses ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 19:08:19 EDT From: Milhouse60 at aol dot com Subject: Recommend me I am a King Crimson enthusiast and would like to know what Fripp album/colaboration would be appropriate for a newbie like me who is out to find more great listening. E-MAIL me. Thrakk at hotmail dot com. ~Thanks ~Ryan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 20:10:33 -0400 From: "rs" Subject: the band called Disipline I see that today (May 23) the track list for the first live performance by the Discipline lineup (April 30th, 1981) was posted. As a very big fan of all things Crimson and especially the Discipline album, I must admit that set list surprised me. I was under the wrong impression that the Discipline band did NOT play any Crim songs until they changed their name. Also I surprised that there were not any unreleased songs or works in progress in this set.(ex. Turkish Tea) But of course I realize that ALL the new songs were works in progress as they had not yet recorded the album AND that these songs are not lightweight 3 chord pop tunes AND they were using the cutting edge technology of the day. Also, this must be the first public performance of the song Red. Somewhere I read that they were even doing Breathless from Exposure in those days. Maybe it was performed at a later date. Oh well, none of these points will stop me from enjoying the premier performance of one the great Crim line ups!!! Fripp once said that the 81 Crimson was at the time the best live rock band in the world. I can t wait for this release and I cant wait for TCOL to arrive!! Thanks to all involved. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 21:41:55 EDT From: ChalkPie88 at aol dot com Subject: Bugger off!!!!!!!!!! Listen, the new one is amazing like the rest of them. Half of the assholes writing in complaining about TCOL wil be eating their words when they experience this one live in concert. If you don't like it, then go throw on "Lizard" or "Islands". As for me, I'm digging ALL of it, because it's ALL DIFFERENT, and it's all amazing. Please give this one some time. Please don't discourage new KC fans from buying this album. Compared to Dave Matthews, TCOL is a treasure. If there are any Zappa fans out there, how long did it take to "understand" a Zappa solo???? I used to fast forward Frank's solos and get to the funny parts of the songs. After MANY years and listenings, I now have finally begun to realize that FZ was the greatest guitarist that ever lived up until now. The point being - things change, moods change, opinions change, music changes. Change with it. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 22:17:01 EDT From: OTotor0 at aol dot com Subject: balderdash Hi all, I don't de-lurk often, so I'll try to fit all my current stuff into one (scatterbrained) post. -I can only presume that Trey's "smaller than a Steinberger" bass is the "rubber band bass" Fripp alluded to in his diary last week. My guess is that it's a teensy Guild Ashbory, initially made in the mid-'80s and just reissued. They're very, very cool little guys with silicone strings. They sound like big, fat upright basses lots of the time, and the new ones actually stay in tune. (Mine usually doesn't. :I ) There are a few specialty web sites out there that go into mad detail on 'em. Fun. -Has anyone out there actually had a Sustainiac/mini-humbucker installed recently? They seem pretty incredible (and I'd love to leave my E-Bow home occasionally). If you'd be kind enough to let me know about your experiences please e-mail me privately. -Please please please keep the gig reviews coming. My thanks are overshadowed only by my jealousy over not being able to get to Nashville myself. -I won't bother "reviewing" TCoL here. Please just listen to the darned thing. Briefly, though, after two days of listening the title track has managed to accomplish what only "Two Hands" has done for me before KC-wise - the lyrics actually moved me to tears. Lovely. Pat's percussion sounds are soooooooo cool! The "ride cymbal" sound near the top of "TCoL" is incredible. If I heard a couple of these tracks at a rave I'd only be mildly surprised (then I'd dance my face off). We have a new King Crimson album! Let's use it! -Thom in NJ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 19:24:55 -0700 (PDT) From: michael forberg Subject: Soundbites? Hey Soundscape fiends...I need some hep... The first DGM sampler, Sometimes God Smiles, has a track from the forthcoming RF CD "Soundbites"... ...was it ever released? The album scratched altogether? Any info appreciated...m ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 23:02:38 -0400 From: Carl Charbonneau Subject: Fripp - a rockstar. Now that Crimson has re-taken the archetypal predicate of rock band (as Fripp and Belew claim), does that mean that Mr. Fripp is a rockstar? maybe a rocker? why not a guitar hero? Carl C. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 00:14:23 -0400 (EDT) From: HarlequinSound at webtv dot net (Jason Peterson) Subject: "Thanks" and "Listening pt. 2) Thanks for all of the positive feedback re my last post... So now I've heard the new CD 3 times. The first time through was at work on the computer so it really doesn't count. The second 2 times were in my car. First go round with Prozac was just a little questionable - BUT THAT WAS ONLY A RESPONSE TO THE VOCALS. The instrumentation was very much KC. The second time around I was reminded of 21st Cent Schiz Man and my response to ET is that KC has a history of screwing around with vocal sound - and drum sounds, and guitar sounds, and bass sounds and....... I THINK that the negative reaction to Prozac is somewhat due to the fact that it contains a direct criticism of those who are quick to judge who contribute to this list (and in the song those who have sex, eat, eat, drink, and dream at the alter of prog and KC - you be readin' too much Elephant Talk, boy - get a life!) - I think Adrian's old comment about ET as a turd sometimes isn't far from the truth (as we have seen in regard to this album). All you poor bearded, bespeckled, fanboys who have been offended by Adrian's fair assessment of your attitude towards his work and now the work of the entire Projeckt, need to CHILL OUT and learn to 1) take a joke 2) get over it 3) understand that change happens in all things - it ain't 1969 anymore. The rest of the recording is typical amazing, atmospheric, and truly King Crimson. And I cannot wait to hear the Projekct X recording - the track is really great. And, without actively trying to and purposely missing Mr. Bruford I thought the drums were appropriate and well done throughout the recording - it just is not the drummer you are expecting - isn't that part of what KC is? Doing the unexpected - look guys, Bob wanted sparser drums and Bill wasn't keen on it, so Pat is, and he's doing a wonderful, but different than Bill, job. The guys in the band are not Gods, they are people like us, and they create the music they want to play (as a group with a specific history). I really thought that fans of KC would understand this. This doesn't mean that we must love every note that is played (or pray/grovel at their feet, what it means is that we at least TRY to understand what they are GIVING us (tho from my experience, the NYC audiences are too caught up in prog history to understand much of anything anyone says much less ACTIVELY listen at a concert they paid to see.) So, all you "nay-sayers" find a way to listen to this new Crimson offering in your own way, but "without judgment" (as Col. Kurtz would say) and don't be looking for Bill or Tony....they aren't there - and it doesn't matter - it just IS. Listen to the music they have presented to us as it is - don't try to judge it at all. I am not saying these positive things about the new CD because I believe all things Crim are holy. I am critical of much in the back catalog - but I will reserve all negative opinions of this CD until I live with the music for a while longer (a month or so). My last post about people talking at the Soundscapes show at Bottom Line in NYC was intended as an analogy to the criticism that appears here in regards to the new recording. To those who are REALLY negative I ask: how do you listen, how many times have you listened to this disk before passing judgement, on what do you base your criticisms (expectations of the past music? If so, then you be listening to the wrong band)? And I would also like to add that no matter what the line up, no matter what the direction the band is going - forward, backward, or staying the same - there will be people who will complain. To the boys in the band: ThancK You!!! Jason Peterson Harlequin Sound & Design ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 00:22:53 -0400 (CLT) From: "Miguel Farah F." Subject: The ConstruKction of Light FWIW, I heard ONCE the .RA clips, and decided to buy the album. You may love or hate the album, but the fact that there have been extreme reactions to it means it's noteworthy. IMHO. Say, Toby, how much more until TCOL becomes a dead thread? :-> [ I hear you. Watch this space - Toby ] P.S.: I had a thought: if the movie had been called "Being Robert Fripp", would the bar scene ("Fripp Fripp? Fripp!") have contained flash lights? -- MIGUEL FARAH // miguel at webhost dot cl #include // http://www.webhost.cl/~miguel <*> "Trust me - I know what I'm doing." - Sledge Hammer ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 17:09:40 -0500 From: "William L. Howell" Subject: GIG REVIEW: 12th and Porter, Friday, May 19, 2000 5/19/00; 0700 Departed Kenner, LA airport, enroute to KC Nashville. Audient expectation is rock with a TWWAIINNNGGGG, despite advice to dismiss expectation. Ten gallon hat and Lizard skin boots along with a Grande Old Opry tee-shirt are the attire for the evening. Cabin pressure normal. Equilibrium at last. 5/19/00; 1300 Flight was pleasant, despite the curious looks from crew and passengers. When in Nashville dress as the Nashvillans. After arriving at the Quality Inn Hall of Fame, I meet with the notorious gang of three, Bob, Scott, and Woody. Now I feel like a turd in the punch bowl. After removing the ten gallon hat we become the notorious gang of four. Negotiations for berthing assignments are finalized. Alas, the Frame by Frame box set has been sold, a moment of resonance. Yes, that was me on MM. 5/19/00; 1400 After much bickering over the BBQ and chili joint I recommended we agree to try an Indian resturant. The waiter seemed a bit confused when I ordered a buffalo steak and ear of corn, so I opted for the buffet line, again and again. 5/19/00; 1800 I'm wandering around a back street alley near a garage and an eatery, when this tall fella, clean dome and mustache emerges with a hot Betty. The crowd stirs, but it appears he has taken offense by my preoccupation with his hot Betty. Kudos. I move on. Someone mentions that Tony Levin may be in town, but I have yet to spot him. 5/19/00; 2130 Opening act was nice and a pleasant rapport was developed with the audient. Punctual as usual, KC takes their place on the stage. I am standing one person from the stage, behind a mammoth of an individual. As the lights dim, there is a register at the bottom of my spine, the chick peas from the buffet. I am now front and center. The band manages to get through the first two pieces with very slight difficulty. By the third number, it is clear KC has poised themselves to be a force to be reckoned with in the 22nd century. Not having heard TCOL yet, I relied on feedback from readers of ET to get a sense of what I was in for. The negative impression from a first hand experience of Pat's drumming never materialized. He clearly demonstrated superb handling of various difficult meters and cutting edge technology. There is also a tremendous amount of animation and enthusiasm in his playing. It positively correlates with Adrian's character, which is familiar to most ET readers. Trey's playing did not disappoint anyone familiar with reviews of his recent projects. He capably fills the void of Tony, in the carefully selected set list, for the quartet. My mind wanders, there was definitely something about that Betty I saw earlier. From my perspective, indigenous to a small venue, I witnessed every facial and harmonic expression of Robert. The punctuation were well calculated and executed with technical precision. Understanding only standard tuning, I am not sure if the next analysis applies. Through a stolid demeanor, moments of intense authoritative output would erupt, seemingly without effort. One particular instance, a mixolydian expansion/contraction occurred. The tone was deceptively clean, but I have not yet fully comprehended what occurred. The line was quite binary, but occurred in a flurry, as it moved through the octaves. Thanks for addressing your fans, also, after the show Mr.Fripp. 5/19/00; After the showish... Adrian is mingling with the fans. I decide to take a chance and express my gratitude for his contributions to KC. He kindly breaks from his conversation. With much difficulty, during the handshake, I acclaim, "Happy, happy, joy, joy." He quickly retracts his hand. Embarrassed by the faux pa, I remember its only talk, chitter chatter. Later, Mr. Fripp passes me in the merchandise line. As I step aside to allow his passage, a glance occurs that tells me he would rather eat salad in the backstage shower than exchange a word with me (refer to R.F.'s diary entry). Kudos. 5/20/00; All day... Had a great time in Nashville. Ate brunch at the Indian restaurant again. Said good-bye to the legendary Bob, Scott, and Woody and encouraged them to keep in touch with me. As the airline gains altitude, the cabin is compressed, the chickpeas decompressed. Cabin fever breaks out. Yes, that was me. I look foreword to the release of TCOL. What an experience. -Bill ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #677 ********************************