Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #675 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 675 Monday, 22 May 2000 Today's Topics: Haskell and the League, Chit Chat Criticism,Alien Penis Lint Re: Gordon Haskell Wetton/ Palmer TCOL 40th opinion, renewed KC RF-interview on May 12th TCoL/Yes Re: 'I Have A Dream' Tab the new Crimson CDs CONSTRUKCTION OF LIGHT/FRACTURE The artist personal vs creative life thing Subject: Re: 'I Have A Dream' Tab and the new tuning The return of Cline/Gauthier/Stinson ConstruKction of Light Preparing for TCOL ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 22:41:07 EDT From: Hocow at aol dot com Subject: Haskell and the League, Chit Chat Criticism,Alien Penis Lint Howdy, Someone wrote in 673 that Gordon Haskell listed the League of Gentlemen on his resume. This band predated Crimson and I beleive even Giles Giles and Fripp. Fripp was recycling his old garage band's name when he formed our favorite dance band years later. This post may be sharing space with one I wrote yesterday prior to finally receiving TCOL through the US AIR Mail from the Great White North. Many surprises here that were not apparent on the Real Audio samples. Pat kicks ass. He is the victim of our fetishizing and hero worshipping Billy B. (who is still my favorite drummer). I had my doubts about the V-drums but there can be no doubt about Pat's playing. Some of the sounds don't work for me. One kind of buzzy sound he makes on ProzaKc made me think I had a bad cd or blown speaker. Moving to a better set of speakers made it apparent that this was just an "interesting" patch on the V-drums. For the most part, however, I find myself really enjoying the drum parts. Well, at least Belew is getting a break from chit chat. I was surprised not to see a joke credit for Hooter Johnson, whose "guest vocal" created six pages of drivel and confusion in the gush book. It must have all stemmed from Fripp's diary. In case my other post didn't make the cut I would like to restate a question from it. In the "I Have A Dream" notes at the Belew site Adrian said he was writing while sitting out on "Fractured" and pondering the philosophy of less is more. There are many passages that appear to be two guitars. Sorry if this ends up being a repeat, but is this (A)Fripp playing an amazing part that gives the illusion of two guitars? (B) Fripp with Trey playing guitar and bass simultaneously on the Warr guitar? (C) Did Adrian get a role in the final mix? Overall, I am very impressed. The controversy is very surprising to me. The music is fresh and new and still manages to retain the Crimson personna. Fractured and Fracture are distant cousins, not a rehash. TCOL is a whole new sound with a few quotes from the 80's sound. The band can't win. Where they are innovative the fans are disgusted by the changes. Where they quote from the musical vocabulary they created in the past they are stagnent and derivative. This would be understandable from the uninitiated but it is unbeleivable from the fans. I started with In The Court and have stayed a fan through all the changes. Some were more disorienting than others, but active listening always yeilded great musical experience once the shock wore off. This album will be one of my favorites for a long time to come. Now, where the hell is my ProjeKct X? Wait, oh yes wait a minute Mr. Postman. Brad Wilmot ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 23:13:30 -0400 From: Ted White Subject: Re: Gordon Haskell In #673, Gnad Markus asks, of Gordon Haskell, "Anybody forgot that remarkable voice? Well, here's what I found on his homepage: "'Other groups played in, but no recordings: The League Of Gentlemen ' "What does that mean???? Did he join them onstage? Who knows? "Speaking of Gordon Haskell, who knows where to get his amazing solo records (I only got "It Is And It Isn't")?" Gordon played in the *first* League of Gentlemen -- back before Giles, Giles & Fripp -- which was not recorded. He and Robert were schoolmates. If you have IT IS AND IT ISN'T, you have the best of his recordings; the rest tend to be solos with Gordon singing and playing guitar. He was briefly in Stackridge in the mid-'70s, and contributed his "No One's Greater Than the Earthworm" to their next album, but was not himself on it. --TW (Dr P) dc-et #6 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 11:32:12 +0000 From: "J. Robinson" Subject: Wetton/ Palmer Did anyone see the recent gigs by John Wetton and Carl Palmer in the UK? I know they played a little pub in the Midlands, the Robin Hood, which I know well (this pub, which puts on mainly tribute bands, is a far, far cry from giant American stadiums). Does anyone know what material they played, inc. set list? Jeremy Robinson ------------------------------ Date: 21 May 00 04:34:55 MDT From: claus dot poulsen at usa dot net Subject: TCOL 40th opinion, renewed KC Hello, this is Claus Poulsen of Denmark - and this is my first (but not last) posting here. I'm very excited about TCOL; as most of you are. I've listened to it for about a month now. I LIKE IT! When I first heard it, I thought: this is definately one of the 2 or 3 best crimson records! Now I'm getting a more objective opinion on it, and I know it much better now. It's STILL very good. I'm very happy that crimso are coming well into the new millenium. I like the "freshness" of the CD best - good energy in the playing, and the "unfinished" or raw sound. I enjoy the title track very much - a wonderful surprise, and beautiful vocals. Also, FraKctured kicks ass very hard. But the highlight is definately Fripp's guitar-as-piano solo on Oyster Soup - wow!!! Is there a connection to Keith Tippett's wild piano playing on Lizard, or is it just a coincidence? (somebody ask Fripp - if they dare!). And I'm in the pro-V-drums-camp! This is one of the most interesting changes in KC. It is not just the matter of substituting acoustic drums. Pat is not playing the same as he (or Bill) would play on acoustic drums - because of the new possibilities and limitations. The drumming itself has changed, it has a new place in the sound-picture and a new role in the rhytmic patterns and puts the music in new perspective. I don't think he's finished experimenting with the electronics yet! Looking forward to the release of "BPM". To me, TCOL's much better than THRAK, because it's more interesting. Only two things are annoying me: 1) it's not as radical as I hoped, listening to the ProjeKcts and reading Fripp's diary - they could take a much bigger step forward 2) the cover is dissapointing, compared to other crimso sleeve-art (verry sorry, Trey). All this is my own opinion, which cannot be argued away! I'm looking forward to Your commentaries. But please don't continue the TCOL war - I think it should be legal to think something is bad. Andrew Thiermann wrote here (in #672): "I have a difficult time seeing why people constantly slate KC's work and yet continue to write in to ET and buy their albums...I don't know. Maybe someone can answer that for me". That is because we all love the music. Or "have our lives changed by the music". If not, people wouldn't bother writing in - the would just shrug it off and move on to more important matters. But KC IS important! So, please forgive them, the poor souls are stuck in their expectations, and they are not listening to the music. Which, in my opinion, was the same that happened to the double trio. Now crimso are un-stuck and have renewed themselves, and it's a joy. Can't wait to the weekend (he he). BTW - is there room enough here for all the concert reviews that will no doubt pour in in great numbers? Thank You, Claus PS: If you are going to the concerts in Copenhagen and you're a ProzaKc Blues-fan - get some CDs by the Danish band "Picnic" - they are wild! You should also visit Christiania, but that's another story. PPS: Anyone know any nasty drummer jokes?? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 21:42:12 +0200 (MSZ) From: a9608723 at unet dot univie dot ac dot at Subject: RF-interview on May 12th Dear ETers! Germany 's most important daily newspaper "Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung" published an interview with Robert Fripp on Friday, May 12th about relationship of rock music and discipline. Some other interesting items as well, of course, for example the inspirations and influences on the new album (Metallica etc.!!). Maybe I will find some time for translating the interview into (hope not "Pidgin") English, if some ETers are interested in. Yours, Wolfgang Spindler ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 21:26:49 +0200 From: Jakub_Grudzinski Subject: TCoL/Yes Hi, fellow ETers! I generally don't express my opinion on new albums, especially if they are recorded by groups like KC or Yes. I think they need more than just a few listens. My father bought TCoL on the 9th of May and I've been listening to it almost everyday (if I had enough time - even several times a day), so my opinion on it is, I think, well- established. I do not agree with those, who say that ProzaKc Blues is a "stupid joke" - I really enjoy it. The title song - TCoL - is really awesome (both instrumental and vocal parts). Both FraKctured and Larks 4 are also very good (Larks 4 is, IMHO, better than Larks 3), but, in some way they cause disappointment - is it the "sign" of the lack of new ideas for melodies? I hope not, but... I also enjoy Heaven And Earth - for me it sounds better than ProjeKct Two. Coda: I Have A Dream - maybe should be a little more different from Coda: Marine 475 from Thrak... Frying Pan - I don't understand why it is the most (or one of the most) enjoyed song on this album (As I read ET newsletters - there are no negative opinions on it). I think it is quite good, but ProzaKc, TCoL, FraKctured and Larks 4 are far better for me. The one song, with which I am disappointed is Oyster Soup. I think it's to noisy. In some ways it resembles Sex, Sleep, Eat, Drink, Dream, but the song from Thrak was far better. Generally the album sounds good for me. It's not the best KC release, but it also isn't the worst one. Well..., maybe it could be the best or one of the best - if there was one or two ballads like Walking On Air or One Time - for example instead of Oyster Soup... [I underline that this review is ONLY my opinion - nothing else]. For those, who feel a real disappointment i suggest comparing TCoL with other prog- rock giants new albums; don't you think that it is better and far more progressive than Yes's Open Your Eyes (I'm not mentioning The Ladder, because I didn't hear it) or Jethro Tull's Dot Com? Oh, by the way, I read this in last ET newsletter: >and we must remember that Yes made 'Tales From Topographic Oceans' and ELP >made 'Benny The Bouncer' - as just two examples of poor releases (in my >opinion) from largely brilliant (in my opinion) bands. Well... I didn't think that negative opinion on Tales... is possible... I think it's a masterpiece; you can find very nice, 'symphonic' melodies on it (The Remembering), as well as good improvisations (Ritual) or beautiful acoustic parts (The Ancient). IMHO, las minute of Ritual is the second best minute of music I've ever heard! (Of course the best one is the ending of Starless) - if it is possible to judge just one minute... :-))) If you think that Tales is one of the weeker releases by Yes, just listen to 90125 or Big Generator... IMHO every Yes's album from Fragile to Going For The One is fantastic ('Awaken' is awesome!!!). Well, that's all. Best wishes (or fishes :-) ), Boromir, The Denethor's Son (Jakub Grudzinski) P.S. Sorry for mistakes in English! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 21:58:18 CEST From: "Macahan The Unifaun" Subject: Re: 'I Have A Dream' Tab Hello! > Fractured drives me nuts because the guitar figure keeps dropping the >anticipated note at the end of many phrases. Once I get used to it I'm >sure >I will like it. Yes, that's exactly what I feel about many Crimson tunes and other prog stuff (the intro of Yes' Changes is a perfect example). Take Discipline for example. It seems Robert and Adrian sat down and tried hard to be as big dickheads as they could. Adrian running a steady 16/8s pattern, together with Robert, who after a while cuts one of those 8s, making it a 15/8s pattern, running with the 16/8s pattern, and all the time coming a bit behind. It gets so complex and unholy. A carefully planned assymetry that can make strong men sea sick. Drives me NUTS! AND I LOVE IT!!! That's maybe what one would call odd meter for odd meters sake. And that's something that has been critizied a lot and is one of the pretentious pillars of progressive rock's criticism targets. But do I love it? I sure do. It's a challange to listen to it. It makes the music exciting and rebellious, just the way I want it. >Adrian has stated that 'I Have A Dream' was written with a new tuning. The >tab that was given in ET#671, whilst seeming to contain all the right >notes, does not recognize this new tuning. Personally, in my quick attempt, >I found the tab positions difficult to play fluently. I suspect that with >the alternative tuning (whatever it is), it would be more comfortable to >perform. Well, I had tabbed this song a few days before someone sent their tab to ET. I haven't looked at the tab sent here, and don't know the differences between that one and mine. Anyway, as it's a rather short song, and thus not an extremely long tab, I thought that I'd submit my tab as well. Perhaps it could work fine as a complement to the one already submitted. I guess some of the parts work better my way, some the way tabbed by the other guy (sorry, didn't catch your name...). And, no, I didn't know about the tuning, so it's the standard one. I find it quite possible to play, though. /Enjoy, Macahan King Crimson: I have a dream Published by BMG Music Publishing Ltd/Poppy Due Music/Robert Stevens Music Written by Adrian Belew, Robert Fripp, Trey Gunn and Pat Mastelotto Transcribed by Macahan (the_unifaun at hotmail dot com) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Acoustic version: |----------------------------------------------------------| |------3-----3---------3-----3---------3-----3-------------| |------------------------------------------------------4~--| |----4-----4-----4---4-----4-----4---4-----4-----4---------| |--2-----2-----2---1-----1-----1---0-----0-----0-----7-----| |--------------------------------------------------4-------| |------------------------------------------------------------------| |------1-----1---------1-----1---------1-----1---------------------| |------------------------------------------------------3--------3--| |----2-----2-----2---2-----2-----2---2-----2-----2---0--------0----| |--0-----0-----0---------------------------------------------------| |------------------4-----4-----4---3-----3-----3---2--------2------| Tragedies of Kennedys, refugees, AIDS disease |------------------------------------------------------------------| |------------------------------------------------------------------| |------3-----3---------3-----3---------3-----3---------0--------0--| |----0-----0-----0---0-----0-----0---0-----0-----0-----------------| |----------------------------------------------------3--------3----| |--3-----3-----3---2-----2-----2---1-----1-----1---0--------0------| photos of Hiroshima, the Holocaust, and Kosovo |------------------------------------------------------------------| |------9-----9---------9-----9---------9----9---------7-----7------| |------------------------------------------------------------------| |---10----10----10--10----10----10--10----10---10---8-----8-----8--| |--8-----8-----8---7-----7-----7---6-----6----6---5-----5-----5----| |------------------------------------------------------------------| Tim McVeigh, Saddam Hussein, the bombing of the World Trade |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |------7-----7---------7-----7---------7-----7---------4-----4------| |------------------------------------------------7------------------| |----8-----8-----8---8-----8-----8---7-----7---------6-----6-----6--| |--6-----6-----6---5-----5-----5---4-----4-----4---3-----3-----3----| |-------------------------------------------------------------------| hostages in Bosnia, atrocities, South Africa, |------0-----0---------0-----0---------0-----0----------------------| |------------------------------------------------------3-----3------| |----1-----1-----1---1-----1-----1---1-----1-----1------------------| |----------------------------------------------------4-----4-----4--| |--4-----4-----4---3-----3-----3---2-----2-----2---1-----1-----1----| |-------------------------------------------------------------------| abortion and Kevorkian, Vietnam, napalm, |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |------3-----3---------3-----3---------3-----3----------------------| |------------------------------------------------------4-----4------| |----4-----4-----4---4-----4-----4---3-----3-----3------------------| |--2-----2-----2---1-----1-----1---0-----0-----0-----7-----7-----7--| |--------------------------------------------------4-----4-----4----| Lady Di, and Lennon died a violent crime, Columbine, |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |------1-----1---------1-----1---------1-----1----------------------| |------------------------------------------------------3-----3------| |----2-----2-----2---2-----2-----2---2-----2-----2---0-----0-----0--| |--0-----0-----0----------------------------------------------------| |------------------4-----4-----4---3-----3-----3---2-----2-----2----| "I have a dream that one day...." Rodney King, O.J., |------------------------------------------------------------| |------------------------------------------------------------| |------3-----3---------3-----3---------3-----3---------0~----| |----0-----0-----0---0-----0-----0---0-----0-----0-----------| |----------------------------------------------------3-------| |--3-----3-----3---2-----2-----2---1-----1-----1---0---------| symbols of our life and times, "One giant leap for mankind" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 22:02:49 +0100 From: The ConstruKction of Light Subject: the new Crimson CDs The new Crimson CD is a patchy beast for me- its beginning to open up after a few listens though. The instrumentals work best- "Fracktured" and "larks tongues in aspic pt IV"- interesting and challenging music that draws you in. But its a patchy album in part due to the production: 1 Ade's voice is processed on all the songs all the time- robbing the frequently bizarre lyrics of emotional or intellectual impact; 2. The drum sound- Pat's a great drummer but the electronic drum kit doesn't get that across; 3. The bass sound- Trey's work on the less succesful tracks is distant- much like the drums; 4. The mix sounds a bit fucked to me- not enough rhythm section up there. All in all the sound feels a little mono-cromatic to me, especially when you consider the Project X CD which is more colourful and challenging and fun. Currently listening to BLUE Nights, which I'm enjoying hugely. Looking forward to the London show. Andrew Jones ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 23:05:16 +0100 From: "Stewart Stirling" Subject: CONSTRUKCTION OF LIGHT/FRACTURE Wotcher Everyone, First Point: I bought "Red" when it first came out in 1974, followed by "In the Court". That was enough to convince me that KC was a band with some history behind it, and a future before it. Having followed their progress since that initial exposure, and having subscribed to ET for about two years without having felt the need to add to the excellent discussions in this forum, I thought I would put my tuppence worth in about TCOL. Having received it as a 41st birthday present from my dear wife (and having listened to it a few times on headphones to ensure that she remained my dear wife) I think it's a superb album, albeit the mix is just a wee bit muddy. I have no difficulty whatever with Pat's V-drums, or whatever the technical term for them is (this from a huge Bruford fan, who saw him with Genesis on the Trick of the Tail tour, and who has seen Earthworks). Second Point: I remember a thread that was running about a year ago on ET concerning the use of KC music as a backing track for various unlikely TV/film moments. My memory concerns "Fracture" (no, not "FraKctured", which I think is a quite wonderful extemporisation from the original). This instance, which some UK readers may recall, occurred during an episode of a very naff TV detective show on UK TV in the late 70s/early 80s called "Hazell", starring the (not really) legendary Nicholas Ball and co-written by the later- to-be England football manager Terry Venables (later to be equally legendary for reasons with which football-supporting UK readers will be well aware!) In the scene, which I remember quite vividly still, Hazell was running down a fire escape in pursuit of some villain or other, and the incidental music during this exciting(!) scene was about thirty seconds of "Fracture"! I hope KC received royalties for this! Cheers, Stiggy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 08:14:32 +1000 From: "STUDER, Andrew" Subject: The artist personal vs creative life thing >hi all, > i haven't seen this topic discuss on here, so i'm posing the question in >the open. i am always been interested by the links between the composer >personal life and the music s/he creates. conversely, by the influences the >composer acknowledges and how they play in the work created. (Other interesting comments about T.S. Eliot and Miles Davis wiped) This is a tough topic, and I suppose can be related to the idea of: how independant is a piece of art from its creator? For example, listening to Miles Davis is hardly going to tempt someone to hit their spouse. And lots of women (including my partner) like the music, even though they know of Davis' problems/ behaviour. Conversely, one could easily argue that too much "pop" music relies on the popularity and personality of the performer, and that the "star" system is so ingrained in our appreciation of music (in all forms- Classical and Jazz are no exceptions) that musicians who have no interest in using their personality to "sell" the music find they have comminucation problems with an audience who expect that to be part of the process. My simple (and simplistic) answer is that music (at least in instrumental form) is a different language, and therefore says different things, than the spoken word we normally use. If you heard the music from Psycho- but didn't know where it had come from- I suspect you'd get the emotional content without too much trouble, but it's unlikely you'd think "aaah, this is music about a women being stabbed in the shower". It seems to me that when people are expressing themselves in a musical language, it's almost as if they're using a different part of their mind- (a more abstract part, perhaps? then again the spoken word is pretty abstract) than they do in everyday life. And listening possibly involves the same thing. So, in some wierd way, it's possible for someone to make music- or to listen to music- which, superficially at least, seems to have a different "personality" than they do. The poetry thing is a more complicated issue, but I for one don't feel that quoting half a line from a writer with anti-semitic tendencies and using it as the name of an instrumental piece of music forms a particularly strong connection. Andrew Studer ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 02:47:25 +0300 From: Elfinster at aol dot com Subject: Subject: Re: 'I Have A Dream' Tab and the new tuning If I remember correctly, the new tuning was the basic tuning with the difference the the d-string is tuned down to c. Don't quote me on that :) And on TCOL: I love it! Keep rocking! Jari ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 20:30:37 -0400 From: Steve Smith Subject: The return of Cline/Gauthier/Stinson Hey gang: While everyone continues the ongoing debate about the worthiness of TCoL (and despite having had an advance copy for about three weeks I'm still not ready to weigh in), I thought I'd mention a new disc that's only somewhat related to the Wonderful World of Crim. A couple of years ago there were a few laudatory mentions of a CD called 'Right of Violet' by an L.A.-based trio, Alex Cline, Jeff Gauthier and G.E. Stinson. The disc, a moody collection of improvs by turns ethereal and industrial, was reportedly even the listening of choice on the 'Thrak' tour band bus (though no one from the KC fold ever verified this). So I just thought I'd take a moment to point out that the trio has released a new CD, 'The Other Shore,' and that this one lives up to the excellence of the first one. If you find yourself drawn to the freewheeling "blows" of the Larks' era band, you'll probably find something to like here. Alex Cline is one of the most sensitive and creative percussionists active on the contemporary jazz/improv scene, Gauthier excels on electric and acoustic violin and mandolin, and Stinson, possibly known to some on this group for his work with the world music pioneers Shadowfax, is a guitarist who grows more challenging and interesting with each project he releases. The new CD is on Gauthier's Cryptogramophone label, carried by most online dealers and many stores, and you can find out more and download some MP3s for further consideration at http://www.cryptogramophone.com (I have no working relationship with this label, though all three musicians have become friends of mine). Interestingly, there is a further Crimson connection: Stinson and Gauthier also perform in an as yet unrecorded quartet called Bone Structure, with bassist Steubig and percussionist Gregg Bendian. Hearing this excellent group live at the Knitting Factory a little while back is the closest I expect to come in this lifetime to hearing the Larks' version of Crimson blowing live (right down to the guitar/violin/bass/drums lineup). And right now Bendian is performing with guitarist Richard Leo Johnson (who shares management with Trey Gunn and the California Guitar Trio), opening for... you got it, King Crimson. So maybe Cline/Gauthier/Stinson will be the preferred listening yet another Crimson band bus... Keep your eyes and ears peeled for a Bone Structure CD... I'll let you know if I hear of one. Cheers, Steve Smith ssmith36 at sprynet dot com NP - Korekyojin, "Poet and Peasant," 'Korekyojin' (Tzadik) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 21:39:05 -0400 From: "BruceR" Subject: ConstruKction of Light I just listened to the free downloads at DGM. Simply put I miss Bill's drumming. The arrangements are quite solid, but I feel they miss Bruford's technical expertise. The punctuation on riffs is MISSING. Adrian is in rare form on the opening track. A strong vocal performance that is hard to take seriously. The guitar work is impeccable by both Robert and Adrian. Thank God Adrian is working the frets again. Side note - I saw Tony Levin at the Knitting Factory gig. Very strong performance. Great to see him in the lead role and enjoying some very light moments with friends and family. Tony singing lead on Elephant Talk was worth the price of admission on its own. Before the song he says "Bill and I are still in the group. We are not on the new record, or on the current tour. Usually thats a good indication you are no longer in the band. I may be naive but I believe that I, and Bill are still part of the band." I certainly hope that is true. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 22:47:35 -0400 From: "John Baker" Subject: Preparing for TCOL I should start by saying that I have not yet heard any of TCOL. I've avoided listening to the webring TCOL stuff, and am anticipating the album's US release. I have enjoyed following the "It's great/It sucks" debate on ET. In reading both the positive and negative reviews, and preparing for my own first exposure to the album, I was reminded of a quote someone once said to me, attributed to Fripp: "Expectation is a prison." Now, I have no idea if Robert really said this, but I think it's a powerful and true sentiment. It seems like a lot of the feedback I've seen has involved the album's meeting or failing to meet various expectations. It strikes me that approaching the first listening with ANY sort of expectations only serves to limit your actual listening experience. For my part, I will attempt to introduce myself to TCOL as if I had never heard of King Crimson or their music, and see what develops. I won't post a review (there's been a glut of that sort of thing already), but anyone who cares what my reaction is can feel free to e-mail me after the US release and I'll tell you how it went. Turd or not, I do enjoy and appreciate this forum. --------------------------------------- John Baker Common Wombat Studio commonwombatstudio at erols dot com --------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #675 ********************************