Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #674 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 674 Sunday, 21 May 2000 Today's Topics: Chapman Stick concert/seminar Trans Am Let's learn a lesson from 'Lizard' . . . TCOL and ProjeKct X Back to back TCOL and H&E It's_still_over Jamie Muir "Lark's Tongue's" vs "Dark Side" Baggage in our ears... TCOL: critics are kleinkariert ... Please Let This Be A Bad Dream articulations Light's Out. Re: 'I Have A Dream' Tab Re: Trans Am US TOUR? GIG REVIEW: Tony Levin Band ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 08:59:49 PDT From: "Nancy Mack" Subject: Chapman Stick concert/seminar found in the newspaper this morning: A concert devoted to the Stick will be held on Sunday, May 21 featuring several musicians (Greg Howard, Don Schiff and the trio Agent 22, headed by Tom Griesgraber, MiraCosta College guitar teacher) at MiraCosta College in Oceanside (north San Diego County). Emmett Chapman, who created the Stick in 1969, will also perform. apparently there will also be a "stick seminar" this weekend presented by Howard and Schiff. for ticket or seminar info call the college theatre at(760)795-6815 or Griesgraber at (760)942-1031. short notice, I know, but sounds like a great opportunity to see the man who created the instrument, and I thought I'd pass this info along to any Crim heads in the area. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 14:44:56 EDT From: WrongWayCM at aol dot com Subject: Trans Am >>I recently got wind of a band called Trans Am. I recently discovered Trans Am when a friend of mine said "here. listen to this" and gave me their 1st album. I absolutely love this band, but they don't really sound like King Crimson. They have a sort of split identity: half Kraftwerk (but much less cheesey, thank god), half pounding, take-no-prisoners rock. The drummer switches between an acoustic kit and an old ghetto drum machine (which he does really creative stuff on), and the other two guys switch between bass, old analogue synths, and guitar (some of the time there are two basses at one, sometimes 2 keyboards, keyboard/bass, and bass/guitar). This band truely rocks. Their drummer is just about the best rock drummer I can think of -- he doesn't do that much complicated stuff; it's usually simple, precise, very fast, and increadibly heavy. He can be devious though with an odd time signiture or strange rhythmic hop now and then. In general, their music is very simplified, but somehow it just really works for me. ! They have four albums -- the first three are instrumental and querky. The latest, Futureworld, is the most cohesive and has singing (all through a vocoder, making great robot vocals). Difinitely check them out, but be warned, they don't have that much in common with Crimson, aside from an intense energy maybe. See 'em live if you get the chance, their drummer is amazing to watch. -Colin -- hmm.. I havn't written to this thing in like 4 years. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 20:18:21 +0100 From: "roger whittaker" Subject: Let's learn a lesson from 'Lizard' . . . Hi, Dammit. I was just reading ANOTHER batch of negative posts about 'TCoL' and I thought about the first couple of times I listened to 'Lizard'. By the time I bought 'Lizard' I had all the other 70s studio albums and thought they were all wonderful (I still don't have 'Beat', 'ToaPP' or 'Thrak' yet, but hey, I'm a student!) but I remeber listening to 'Lizard' for the first time and being bitterly, bitterly disappointed with it. I didn't just think it was a bad album by KC's standards I actually thought it was just a generally bad album - simultaneously flowery and muddy, not to mention directionless. But over the last couple of weeks it has hardly been out of my player - I now regard it as a truly superlative album. It used to be my least favourite KC LP without question but now it is extremely difficult, nay impossible probably, to actually pick one out as being weaker - as difficult as it is to pick one out as being stronger - than the rest. I'll freely admit to being hardly rapturous of my first and only so far listen to 'TCoL' but I don't doubt that my opinion will change, and if it doesn't . . . then so be it. KC have been near perfect thus far and we must remember that Yes made 'Tales From Topographic Oceans' and ELP made 'Benny The Bouncer' - as just two examples of poor releases (in my opinion) from largely brilliant (in my opinion) bands. But I must say that bringing home a KC album that you have never heard and playing it for the first time is a truly unique experience - you can never be quite sure exactly what is going to come out of those speakers! I happen to like the sound of Pat's drumming on 'TCoL' anyway. I couldn't listen to an awful lot of it, but on this one release I think it has a really chaotic feel to it. Anyway. I noticed a possible (well probable . . . in fact probably not, but anyway) lyrical reference to KC on Marillion's 1985 'Misplaced Childhood' album. The first track 'Pseudo Silk Kimono' features the lyric 'A morning mare rides in the STARLESS shutters of my eyes' and track 3 'Bitter Suite''s part III 'Blue Angel' features the lyric 'The sky was BIBLE BLACK in Lyon'. Probably not worthy of the newsletter but there you go. Nick Whittaker. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 20:30:51 EDT From: Hocow at aol dot com Subject: TCOL and ProjeKct X Hi, just speculating because I still haven't got my copy yet. I underestimated the ability of US Airmail to take weeks to arrive from Canada and have only been able to listen to the Real Audio clips (which are a little better now that they are straight off the DGM page.) I think TCOL has much promise, but I can't make out Pat, and the vocals are awfully distorted on the clips. Anyway, making allowances for the adverse listening conditions I think this album will be hot. I love Prozakc Blues and Consrukction of light already. I can't wait to get a clear view of Frying Pan and Oyster because the sound quality really butchers them but I think there is something really cool going on there. The rockier guitar sounds (especially Adrian's solo on Blues) are great. While I have been amazed at the sounds Fripp and Belew got during the double trio period I had been feeling like I wish they would get into playing more than processing and I believe generally that is where they are going. There still are crazy sounds galore, but they are taking a back seat to the playing. I think from a guitar point of view this is the best Crimson in a long time. I'm not slighting the rythm section, but I can't tell what all is going on there from the samples. Fractured drives me nuts because the guitar figure keeps dropping the anticipated note at the end of many phrases. Once I get used to it I'm sure I will like it. I also really like the slow interludes that sound like a movie soundtrack where someone has just discovered something magical. Fripp's control and speed is staggering. Does anyone know if Belew ended up completely sitting out on this track? His "I Have A Dream" comments implied that this was the case so I'm wondering if the parts that sound like two guitars are (A) Fripp being absolutely amazing (B) Fripp with Trey playing guitar lines and bass lines on the Warr(C) Belew ended up adding parts to the final production? Larks is a bit disappointing because I think it pales next to it's predecessors, so when I get the cd I think I'll try to ignore the title and judge the song on its own merits. Once again, killer solo by Adrian. While I liked "I Have A Dream", I somewhat feel like the vocal passage seems nailed on. If I was in charge I would have kept "Dream" and left the end of "Larks" instrumental, but still quoting the earlier vocal melody ala the finale on "Starless". But I'm not in charge so, who cares what I think? For those who think it fails to live up to the promise of the ProjeKcts, perhaps you bought the wrong cd. You should be checking out ProjeKct X. Personally, I am glad to have something with intricate structure and vocals, athough I am also looking forward to ProjeKct X. I think I'll put them both in the cd player and push the shuffle button. That's probably the cd we all wanted. One little whine at DGM. PX was scheduled for release yesterday. It would have been nice to see an update in the news section on whether or not it has shipped. A form letter e-mail telling people with preorders that their orders have shipped would be really nice, but hey, I check the news every day. That would be good enough. Brad Wilmot ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 09:30:35 +0100 From: "mark" Subject: Back to back TCOL and H&E Well having received Heaven and Earth this morning I am minded to comment upon these two cd's. However first an abstraction. TCOL is the Crimson King at his regal best - in his finest suit, smart and composed. H&E is his feverish nightmares, his wild imaginings - him running drunk and naked from room to room in his place late at night. TCOL Roaring and relentless looking forwards and back. One of my main issues with Thrak was that in rejecting its past KC had less of a vision of the future. TCOL is not afraid to use those voices. Belew, absent from the projects in his role as (superb) guitarist and minstrel, makes his presence felt strongly here. His songs have a balance and energy that has been lacking in the past (two hands.. perhaps). This is music to get lost in, to turn up loud. Throw away your preconceptions - Crimson music exists only in the present - other records are just that - records of a moment past. H&E Unleashed from structure this is darker and heavier still than TCOL. Still the music though is filled with a Joy and Intelligence that could only come from musicians of this calibre who know each other well. Trey seems more comfortable with his role here and stuff on P4 that sounded like Levin could well have been Trey's. From fragments of electronica to intense guitars passages the quality of sound is just as important here as the notes. The themes and riffs that have stalked KC records since the very start appear now and then but it such a different context they seem like a different band. These are both records made by a band that know who they are and are comfortable with what they are doing - enjoying playing together and that they are a long, long way from the limits of what they are capable of. I hope that when KC go out to play they take PX with them both albums point to a band that live will be killers. Whilst I understand the logistics of touring it is a great shame they are not coming to Scotland - I am reluctant to go to a gig in a city I hate (London) to see a band one of who's members is reluctant to play. mark junklight - dark experimental electronics http://www.junklight.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 12:29:21 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?B?RGFnIFN3YW72?= Subject: It's_still_over Seems i'm not the only one who's disappointed over TCOL. Fans of old bands always supect that conservatism is behind all disliking. I still think it's a weak album. Why: because it's not so good. A very simpel reason to not like something. Using a vocabulary that you have used before is alright with me, but not ripping yourself off and re-use stuff. I don't like the way they use V-drums on the album, like a surrogat for realdrums. They can be used in a much more interesting way. So can Belew, so can Mastelotto, so can Gun, so can Fripp: why don't they do it ? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 12:49:26 +0000 From: "J. Robinson" Subject: Jamie Muir Re. an e-mail in a recent 'Elephant Talk' from Gennadi Orlov, of Moscow, Russia, who quoted some info from Paiste Drummer Service, CH - 6207 Notwil, Switzerland on Bill Bruford: That group for a time included Jamie Muir "who taught me more about percussion than everyone else put together". Just wondered: whatever happened to the amazing Jamie Muir? By all accounts, a wild and inventive musician. Jeremy Robinson -- Jeremy Robinson P.O. Box 393, Maidstone, Kent, ME14 5XU, U.K. tel: 01622-729593 (UK) 01144-1622-729593 (US) 0044-1622-729593 (Europe) E-MAIL AND INTERNET E-mail: E-mail: Website: ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 08:14:28 -0500 (CDT) From: TheMincer at webtv dot net (Ric Wilson) Subject: "Lark's Tongue's" vs "Dark Side" Greetings to fellow E.T. readers....First,I like to say a huge"THANKS" to TOBY, DAN, and all those responsible for putting together E.T. as often as they do. I jump to read each edition when notified, when you're partially disabled, the smallest things can make your day! Recently, an acquaintance of mine and I got into a small argument over the "Technological" pros & cons of "Lark's Tongues In Aspic", vs Pink Floyd's "Dark Side Of The Moon". While both are indeed (beyond) excellent albums, My opinion was that "Lark's Tongues" was indeed a much more technically advanced recording. In fact, I pointed out to him, "Lark's Tongues" won an Award over "Dark Side" in the area of Technological Achievements in a recording during the year they were recorded. Anyone else remember this? "Lark's Tongues" has so many intricate little details buried deep within it's musical depths, it's just mind boggling! Like I say, I love Pink Floyd, don't get me wrong, and I'm WELL aware of how many weeks "Dark Side" stayed on the Billboard charts! As an ex-FM announcer, I gave them both PLENTY of airplay. But when it comes to a comparison of the two disc , L.T.I.A. ( I don't like to use abbreviations for Disc titles, that was hard! ) has it beat hands down! Long live King Crimson, I don't know of any other band that has impacted my musical spectrum like they have! Crimsonite One, Ric Wilson... http://community.webtv.net/TheMincer/TheStarlessAndBibleBlackPage/RicWilson. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 10:43:25 EDT From: Ctao at aol dot com Subject: Baggage in our ears... ETpersons: The reactions to TCoL are pretty damned amusing, seemingly falling into one of several camps: 1) This music sounds too different to be KC - this is not my KC! 2) This music sounds like warmed-over KC (too much like earlier KC). 3) This music is actually good! 4) This music could never be good because... a. I miss BB (Waaauuughhh!!!!!) b. Those pesky V-Drums c. I miss Tony (Waaauuughhh!!!!!) d. I miss Bill AND Tony ( DOUBLE Waaauuughhh!!!!!) For some bizarre reason, people seem to bring an INTENSE amount of PERSONAL baggage to a new KC record. To make matters worse, many of these KC audients feel perfectly entitled to make grandiose (and often nasty), sweeping "proclamations" about their findings. These postings reveal little about the music in question, but more than enough about the biases and proclivities of the poster. People, get over your selves. Most of us could give a rat's ass about your personal "experience" of the CD. Leave the baggage at home. Some of us would prefer to approach the moment as clearly as possible, remaining open to what we might experience therein. Conor D www.mp3.com/GeographicalTongue ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 16:56:31 +0100 From: removed at users dot request (GW) Subject: TCOL: critics are kleinkariert ... TCOL is phantastic ! Very dense, heavy, a perfect synthesis of the different KC inkarnations. It doesn't match my expectations. It's much better ;-) Yes, Prozac Blues is a joke. But a very _good_ one ! In KC's history there have always been odd or funny songs. Prozac Blues is the one for the 21st century. It's not elevator music ... you have to listen to the CD in its entirety, from Prozac Blues to the monumental and melancholic Coda "I Have A Dream". Play it loud (or use headphones). It's an experience of the special kind ... Much more could be said about this record, but why ? OK, I would like to see John Wetton in the line-up, but who cares ? In germany we have this word "kleinkariert" for small minded people. I think this word describes a lot of the critics. The problem lies in their expectations, not in the music. Ciao Gerd BTW: the Bonn show has not been cancelt ... meanwhile I have managed to get a ticket. Thanks for the nice E-Mails ! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 12:53:03 -0400 From: "Jeff A. Taylor" Subject: Please Let This Be A Bad Dream No, I'm not talking about the music on TCoL. I mean the totally anal reception it has received from what seems like many ETers. One can like or dislike the music on its own merits, but to say that it isn't new or it shoulda, coulda been this, that, or the other is just downright bizarre. I have often discussed with the friends the inability of some people to truly hear music. Instead, they hone in on a particular tone or random element and block out the totality of what is going on. If that crucial tone is missing--or a previously loathed one present--the work is shot for them. A similar affliction is found with people who cannot taste more than one flavor at a time. Wine tastings are a great place to see the scales fall from the taste buds of some of these people. Vanilla, apples, oak, leather--all in a glass? It is a life transforming experience for them. All I can suggest for ETers who despise TCoL is please try to "de-tune" you ears. Listen without listening. Don't make it a mental exercise. Don't try to construct the light. See it. - Later, JAT ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Read the best ePinions on books, cars, and music at http://www.epinions.com/user-bigmonkey ****************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 12:22:12 -0600 From: ecerb at indra dot com (Elaine C. Erb) Subject: articulations Laurent MASSE wrote: > (I still skip Thela and Sheltering Sky on Discipline) I think if any, this has to be the comment that best points out to me that all we are reading thus far are different peoples opinions and reactions to TCOL. Laurent is skipping one of my favorite selections on Discipline, an album I think to be one of those rare recordings on which I wouldn't change a thing. I like it's flow and it's range, it's moments of reflection coupled with times of intensity, and the very profound Adrian influence. That said, yesterday was a fascinating day for me. I had listened to the webring but refused to pass judgment due to the sound limitations of computer listening. So yesterday when TCOL finally arrived at the radio station, I got my chance to put on the CD and let it run! For my taste, I can't believe that they chose to start out with Prozakc Blues, a piece I find highly unsettling with Adrian's altered vocals. I'm not nearly as fond of Pat's drumming as I am of Brufords so the drive behind the group certainly loses some focus. But Adrian, Trey, and Robert still know how to tear it up on the strings. I wound up recommending for DJs that they try Into the Frying Pan, Oyster Soup, and Heaven and Earth before the others, though the first DJ to spin this dove right in with Prozakc Blues. Certainly I think I am steering people to the shorter tracks, a bit easier to get into than the intensity of Frakctured. At home I found a package from Real World records awaiting me. What a contrast to then spend the evening listening to Ovo, Peter Gabriels music for the Millenium Dome. It's certainly "show" music, lacking some of the depth of a solo release, but the CD I first reached for this morning for a second listen. It's much more richly orchestrated than usual for Gabriel, with a huge supporting cast. Included are most of the Afro-Celt Sound System, great vocals from Richie Havens and Alison Goldfrapp, Tony on bass, and string arrangements from the fabulous Jocelyn Pook (who did music for Eyes Wide Shut.) I can't wait to see how my feelings on these records evolve with time!! EC Erb www.kgnu.org ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 23:50:22 +0000 From: Luis Rey Subject: Light's Out. 30 years or so listening to Crimson, and now I really think that the light has finally been deconstructed and it's time to move on. Please: You can't take this new album seriously... it's just a boring rehash of a multitude of old ideas. Fractured? Lark's Tongues? How anyone dared to compare any of the new refritos with the original masterpieces? Yes, TKcOL I think is just a bad commercialized version of that old "we've heard all before... yawn" syndrome... where's the drama, the daring? Where's the substance? Belew our of a leash with banal, cheap, pseudo intellectual, rubbish lyrics? If I hear him doing another McCartney-go-Crimson thing I'm probably going to get sick. Any Trans Am album sounds fresher than this. The pupils are so far surpassing the masters at this moment in time.I DO recommend Trans Am to any Crimsonite. A fresh Lo-Fi melting pot. On the other hand, if we take the magnificent Blue Nights live album from the Bruford-Levin group... now THIS is what I call inspired and a good sense of musical drama... I didn't expected it and I was pleasantly surprised. Any album from the Projeckts is wall paper compared to it! And one last point: the Projeckts have turned exactly in what Robert Fripp would have never wanted: muzak for neurotics. Unfortunately irrelevant. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 10:00:01 +1000 From: Chris Clark Subject: Re: 'I Have A Dream' Tab Adrian has stated that 'I Have A Dream' was written with a new tuning. The tab that was given in ET#671, whilst seeming to contain all the right notes, does not recognize this new tuning. Personally, in my quick attempt, I found the tab positions difficult to play fluently. I suspect that with the alternative tuning (whatever it is), it would be more comfortable to perform. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 20:09:56 -0400 From: Ed Stokes Subject: Re: Trans Am > Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 23:59:28 EDT > From: Mikewyz at aol dot com > Subject: Trans Am > > I recently got wind of a band called Trans Am. Trans Am are ambitious & arty but I don't hear Crimson in there. Almost entirely intrumental and often shooting for dramatic effect, much of their recent output combines spare rock trio and low-tech electronica. Sometimes they rock, but nothing raging hard. Playing is tricky enough but probably too simplistic for the old school prog crowd. I've not heard all their output, but: _Surrender To The Night_ : often consided their best. Fits the above description _Futureworld_ : grunge rock take on Kraftwerk. I enjoyed but it's not in high rotation anymore _You Can Always Get What You Want_ : recent collection of singles, outtakes & live bits. Fans only. Es. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 21:35:18 EDT From: SCHIZOID21 at aol dot com Subject: US TOUR? Hey, what about us? Nashville is fine but I live in NJ (Please no wise cracks!) Any Idea when Crimson will roll into here in the 21st Century? This Schizoid would like to know. Thanks Mike O'Connor Schizoid21 at aol dot com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 19:55:16 -0400 From: "JMURPHY" Subject: GIG REVIEW: Tony Levin Band May 17, 2000 - Cambridge, MA. USA - House of Blues This was a great show. I don't think the tour is scheduled to be too extensive, but if you get a chance check this it out. To be honest, I wasn't prepared for what Tony and the band (Jerry Marotta, Larry Fast and Jesse Gress) gave us. Tony explained at the beginning of the show that it was a special night for him due to his family being present. With offerings for both his mom and dad and a tune with his brother on keyboards he made it special for everyone who attended. They opened with a percussion number entering from the back of the club. Most of night was music from the new CD (which by the way is great as well) with spatterings of Krimson (E.T.) and Peter Gabriel (Swimming). As usual Tony expanded well beyond what he offers on the on the CD. There were a few powerful numbers from Waters...mainly Bone & Flesh in which the foursome exploded. All in al this was a great show and highlighted how versatile Tony (and the Bass) is. It is amazing how this man adapts to musical styles so easily. He also mentioned that he and Bill planned on reuniting with the rest of the boys at some point in the future, when he didn't say... Later...John ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #674 ********************************