Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #673 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 673 Saturday, 20 May 2000 Today's Topics: GIG BIZ: Show times change GIG BIZ: King Crimson concerts GIG BIZ: 4 tickets available for Saturday night GIG BIZ: Nashville !!!RECTIFICATION!!! TCOL is a Masterpiece! the deception of the thrush? Classic Rock - June 2000 Solos in TCoL Re: KC London Gig Timothy McVeigh Tim McVeigh? like or don't like/e-bow Re: Sustainer or not? CGT Rocks The West Review Re: TCOL : I hate to bring up the subject of percussion, but.. CDs to sell tCOL - again Fallen Angel Problems with electronic drums Gordon Haskell Schizoid Dimension-A Tribute To King Crimson TCoL Reviews DeconstruKcting TCoL ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 15:15:15 -0400 From: Schamp John MSgt AFRC/CEXR Subject: GIG BIZ: Show times change I noticed in RF's Diary pages on the DGM website that show times for the Nashville gigs had moved up from 2130 verses 2200. That's Friday and Saturday shows. I'd hate for anyone to miss 30 minutes of bliss. But of course, check for your self. JOHN SCHAMP ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 23:19:07 +0000 From: "J. Robinson" Subject: GIG BIZ: King Crimson concerts FROM JEREMY ROBINSON: Does anyone know if King Crimson have any other UK dates lined up apart from 3rd July at the Shepherd's Bush Empire? Thanks. J. Robinson -- Jeremy Robinson P.O. Box 393, Maidstone, Kent, ME14 5XU, U.K. tel: 01622-729593 (UK) 01144-1622-729593 (US) 0044-1622-729593 (Europe) E-MAIL AND INTERNET E-mail: E-mail: Website: ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 22:29:33 -0400 From: Michael St Clair Subject: GIG BIZ: 4 tickets available for Saturday night Due to the declining health of a family member (and that's all I'd like to say about that), we are going to be unable to attend this Saturday's performance and 12th and Porter as planned. As a result, none of our 4 'tickets' are going to be used. If anyone would like the entire block, please email me at mickster at one dot net; please do not email if you want less than all four 'tickets'. Please do not post a response to the mailing list. Since I do not possess these 'tickets' (admission is by will call only), my ability to do this is contingent on the venue permitting me to do so. I have contacted the venue asking permission to do this. If they refuse, I am sorry; it is out of my hands. Of course I will only accept exactly face value, that I paid, which was $16 per admission ($64 total). First come first served, assuming I am able to serve at all. Due to the how little time remains, if there is not time for a payment to be sent and received I will take your word for it. Michael St. Clair ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 17:09:00 +0100 From: Steve & Cathy Disney Subject: GIG BIZ: Nashville As of Thursday May 18th, noon, 12th and Porter still has tickets available for a 3:00 pm King Crimson matinee performance on Sunday May 21st. While I have not seen this show on any published schedule, this information came directly from the venue. Their phone number is 615-244-4653. Good Luck! S. A. Disney ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 13:26:17 +0000 From: "Krzysztofa Usnarska-Talerzak" Subject: !!!RECTIFICATION!!! Greetings! I would like to appologise all of you for a big mess with my e-mail adresses and names. At present I don't have my own internet access (temporarily), so I use my mother's e-mail and the computer in her workplace. There was a bad configuration in the net, that is why my two mails from Digest #671('Third of a Perfect Ten' and 'I Have A Dream TAB') had different adresses and names. So please (if you would ever want to mail to such a fool...) use only ONE adress: talerzak at culex dot biol dot uni dot wroc dot pl (of course the name of the sender won't be mine - just like in this mail) Once again, forgive me... the one and the only TOMASZ TALERZAK --------------------------------- "the fate of all mankind I see is in the hands of FOOLS..." ---------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 14:41:09 +0200 From: "Rothlein,_Mattias" Subject: TCOL is a Masterpiece! Hello Crimsonauts! I just feel the strong urge to write, what most of you already know: The ConstruKction Of Light is the perfect follow up to my all time favorite album THRAK and to the strange but yet so beautiful ProjeKct1-2-3-4 Albums. The extensive use of Sticks and the once again superb rhythmic explosions make TCOL a piece of music, that I will listen to again and again, and everytime there will be something new to discover! I still can't await to see the Crims at their live performances at Nuernberg, Stuttgart and Munich! I'm sure that every night will be a unique event of pure progressive power! Extra special thanks to Adrian Belew for his unbelievable vocals and the beautiful guitar expressions! Crimson are still getting better and really progressive! See you at the shows! Mattias Rothlein ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 08:45:54 EDT From: Elfinster at aol dot com Subject: the deception of the thrush? hi all, i haven't seen this topic discuss on here, so i'm posing the question in the open. i am always been interested by the links between the composer personal life and the music s/he creates. conversely, by the influences the composer acknowledges and how they play in the work created. in the case of some composers, a certain knowledge of their personal lives has made--for me--for a very uncomfortable listening of their work. to cite two cases: wagner and miles davis. the first one was remarkably anti-semitic. the second one entertained himself by using his wives/girlfriends as punching bags. i still love the music they made, but my appreciation of the music is complicated by my knowledge of the musicians' lives. i guess i've never known how much we can separate the personal from the creative, when, for the most part, we tend to attribute a certain influence of the personal over the creative. in the case of projekct 2 & 4, i am puzzled by the title of the song "the deception of the thrush" which as i read it, is a direct quote from t.s. eliot first quartet. ".... Through the first gate,/ Into our first world, shall we follow/ The deception of the thrush?..." (lines 20-22). my "problem" is that t.s. eliot, who was, arguably among the best poets writing in english in the xxth century, was also, a noted anti-semite (check out "the wasteland" for instance). this knowledge, in turns, alters--to some degree--the way i listen to that particular composition because i know something extraneous to the song per se--or the composers--but pertinent to its title. i am, in no way, suggesting that anyone in k.c. discriminates against jews. what i am saying is that the usage of a (beautiful) text by someone whose behavior towards jews is rather despicable, alters my listening/comprehension of the piece. i would appreciate any comments on the topic. [i also suggest, for those who are interested, reading "mad at miles" by pearl cleage] thanks for your reading and patience, carlos schroder ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 14:16:45 +0100 From: aal at aws dot co dot uk Subject: Classic Rock - June 2000 This morning I got hold of the new edition of Classic Rock magazine. The Construkction Of Light is reviewed by Andy Robson and he gives it 4 stars (out of 5). Interesting remarks include: This quartet isn't 'missing' the talents of Bruford and Levin... it's simply a different patterning of the loose associations that call King Crimso into existence. Notions of a 'rhythm section' simply don't exist. The results veer between steam-hammered monster riffs (Frying Pan) and filigreed, interlaced and mazily delirious themes like the title track. The closing comment: So, if you're brave enough, come and have a go at the New Court of the Crimson King. There's a helluva noisy welcome waiting for you... [If you're based in the UK and haven't given Classic Rock a try I would recommend that you try and get hold of it, which isn't the easiest thing to do] I haven't heard any of the new album and I'm a little disturbed at the amount of comment there has been in et. I will be getting TCOL as soon as I can and did not want to have any pre-conceived notions of it. Judgement has already been clouded by KCCC #7 'The Roar of P4' which did not register at all with me. If the drums on TCOL are anything like 'Roar' I can understand the comments being made. Personally, I am not a musician (as many et contributors seem to be) and thus can only comment from an audient's point of view. I am afraid that at this point I am still looking forward more to getting the Hyde Park KCCC than the new TCOL. Trying to keep an open mind Andrew Lehva LONDON ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 15:42:38 +0200 From: "DCHARBONNIER" Subject: Solos in TCoL Hi, I'd like to know ( rather : to be sure) about the solos in the new release of KC. Who plays what ? Pierre ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 09:26:20 -0500 From: William Jenks Subject: Re: KC London Gig There are some very [*] comments about the London show on Fripp's diary at the dgm web site. Worth a read. Sorry if others have brought this to the list's attention previously. *Insert adjective of choice here. Possibilities include "interesting," "amusing," and "disturbing," among others. 'Tis a reflection of the audient. :-) William Jenks ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 11:50:27 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron G. Moulin" Subject: Timothy McVeigh I'm sure there will be many responses to this question, but I'll post one anyway. Timothy McVeigh is the man who was convicted for being the responsible party in the bombing of the Federal Office building in Oklahoma City several years ago. -- ---------------------------------------- Aaron Moulin Biochemistry Dept. MS 009 Brandeis Univ. P.O. Box 9110 Waltham MA 02454 "But what do the heads do?" --Chris Miller Ph.D. ------------------------------ Date: 17 May 00 13:12:33 EDT From: James Dusewicz Subject: Tim McVeigh? The only notable(and ignoble) Tim McVeigh I am aware of is one of the co-conspiritors(the person who actually planted the truck bomb) in the terrorist bombing of the Federal Building in Okalahoma City, Okalahoma, United States Of America, in 1995. He was later duly convicted in Federal Court for the murder of at least two hundred people and about twenty children who died in the blast. Currently he is awaiting execution on death row in a Federal prison. jim campaigner at usa dot net James Dusewicz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 10:00:40 -0700 (PDT) From: David McMillan Subject: like or don't like/e-bow Elephants, I have not heard one iota of tCoL... I will wait patiently until it is released locally. However, I am enjoying reading ALL opinions of the recording. As a distant observer, I'd like to point out the following. There was a wave of negative opinions followed by a few suggestions that the authors of the former wait a while then give their positive opinions once they started liking the CD... as if positive first impressions are approved and negative ones are not. I'm very surprised that in all the talk about the e-bow, no one has mentioned the e-bow king, and new DGM artist, Bill Nelson. Shortly after the demise of Be Bop Deluxe, I saw Bill in Toronto (at the El Mo, for those who care) and this was the first time I'd ever seen an e-bow in use. Even though I had no idea what it was at the time. Sufficed to say, it wasn't long before I had my own e-bow! Dave PS. I've always thought it was Alomar playing the trademark Heroes riff because underlyng it is another less invasive guitar track that sounds more Fripp-like (overdubbing issues notwithstanding). ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 15:31:22 -0400 From: David Beardsley Subject: Re: Sustainer or not? TIMOTHY GUEGUEN writes: >Rather I suspect the device in question was > either the short lived Sustainiac, or the Floyd Rose Sustainer that Kramer > marketed briefly around that time. The Sustainiac worked by plugging your > guitar into a floor unit that tapped off a bit of the guitar signal and > fed it back via a transducer you attached to the rear of your guitar > headstock. If you've heard "God's Garden" off the first > French/Frith/Kaiser/Thompson album you've heard it in action. The Floyd > Rose Sustainer was a humbucking guitar pickup sized unit that installed in > the neck slot on a Kramer guitar and probably worked in a similar fashion > to the current Fernandes unit. Unfortunately it appeared about the same > time that Kramer started to fall apart and it would seem only a few were > sold. Sounds like a bit of missinformation. They were at NAMM in Feb. Check this out: http://sustainiac.com/ At NAMM I was told that the Fernandez sustainer is a reverse engineering of an older Sustainiac moodel. As for Fripp, I think he owns a Fernandez, but probably still uses lots of gain for sustain. -- * D a v i d B e a r d s l e y * xouoxno at virtulink dot com * * 49/32 R a d i o "all microtonal, all the time" * M E L A v i r t u a l d r e a m house monitor * * http://www.virtulink.com/immp/lookhere.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 15:59:48 -0400 From: "G. Emory Anderson" Subject: CGT Rocks The West Review I got a hold of the California Guitar Trio Rocks the West CD about a week ago, and have been listening to it periodically ever since. The first thing I can say about it is what I said about the previous CGT Live CD ("On Tour With King Crimson"): their studio releases pale by comparison. With these two live releases there's a real urgent energy to their playing. Part of this seems to be the need to win over the audience early, and decisively, a survival strategy they no doubt learned as the acoustic opening act for one of the most electric and powerful bands around (uh,...a band called King Crimson). Another part of this is harder to identify, and is related to the very nature of their music: it's complex, rythmic, engaging, quietly powerful music. My one criticism of this CD, particularly as compared to the last one, is the lower percentage of CGT originals. Their own music has a very special quality to it that does not push any set of emotions towards the listener, but instead seems to imply the same as a byproduct of the construction of their tunes. At their best, this music is damned sophisticated and moving, and this is evident here, but sometimes I wish there was more. Sometimes, the "covers" almost seem like performance "stunts", but they are nonetheless quite enjoyable (I like their Bohemian Rhapsody more than Queen's by a long shot). If I had my druthers (what the hell is a 'druther', anyway), I'd like to see CGT release an album of all new material (with maybe a cover or two) recorded live in front of an audience. If any of the CGT reads this, please don't be afraid to move even deeper into the abstract, asymmetrical and powerful territory that are the real heart and soul of this band. As for classical covers, ever considered a little Prokofiev? -Emory ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 15:57:24 -0700 From: "Eric D. Dixon" Subject: Re: TCOL : I hate to bring up the subject of percussion, but.. Steve Dinsdale wrote: >.... aren't the Drums on TCOL absolutely horrible ? It may have worked in >an improvised, exploratory context on the ProjeKCts, but when it comes to a >structured studio set there is a large and gaping hole in the percussion >dept that is plain for all to see . There is no heartbeat underlying the >guitar figures, nothing to propel the music forwards, instead just >thrashing around on dreadful sounding drum pads. A real disappointment when >you contrast with the incredible `live' drum sounds on Thrak. Definitely a >case of BB making his absence felt ! Far from it. The beat is implied in the meter & tempo of all the instruments. There's no need for a drummer to spell it out. The best drummers play *around* the beat, generally not on it. Eric D. Dixon "What a lot of trouble to prove in political economy that two and two make four; and if you succeed in doing so, people cry, 'It is so clear that it is boring.' Then they vote as if you had never proved anything at all." -- Frederic Bastiat ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 19:48:26 -0300 From: "Gustavo Luis Enriquez" Subject: CDs to sell Hi Eters ! I have KC related and prog compact discs to sell: TREY GUNN "1000 Years" EUROPE STRING CHOIR "Starving Moon" SOLARIS "1990" (Beautiful hungarian double CD + Bonus Tracks) GITBOX "Touchwood" Please Email privately to:pcgeonline at houseware dot com dot ar Gustavo Enriquez Buenos Aires - Argentina ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 08:04:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Ronald Miklos Subject: tCOL - again Hi all I will not write any technical comments or reviews about tCOL. I just think that every new crimso recording cannot be compared to any previous one. When doing it we always tend to underestimate what is being presented to us and may judge with prejudice. Just play the CD imagining that it is not KC and then see the results. I can neither say that it is or will ever become one of my favourites, but there are brilliant parts in it as well as not so brilliant ones. IMHO it was worth the money spent. Anxiously waiting for Projekct X as well as any live stuff from the upcoming tour. But hey (as my friend Edgar usually says), I am a collector and whatever comes in is well accepted. Ronald Vogel (Brasil) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 08:14:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Ronald Miklos Subject: Fallen Angel Hi all Changing the subject a little bit, just to inform you that the "easy money" version on Zoom Club show, back in 1972 (with Muir) is an early version of the song, with a softer melody and vocals followed by an improv which is nothing more than the instrumental part of Fallen Angel. I was just amazed when I listened to it as well as other improvs from the late 72 shows. They contain embryos of lots of other songs like Lament and even Doctor D. tCOL is just that. New material, rewriten ones, reused ones. Just the progress of crimson music. That's what it is. That's the way they are feeling about music now, wether we like it or not. God bless DGM for we have the opportunity of being presented to such art music, not only by KC. Have you ever lisyened to Gunn's "Joy of Molybdenum". You would be surprised. Ronald Vogel (Brasil) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 15:07:50 -0400 From: Andy Acunzo Subject: Problems with electronic drums Hello, Check out this excerpt from Pat's May 10th diary regarding problems with the eclectronic drums: "At times It does feel a bit silly playing these plastic drums and when the sound is bad, well it becomes almost unbearable. Today Robert requested we play 'People' and at a tempo of 160 bpm the midi latency is a joke, as many mistriggers as real ones, on top of which the dynamics are not. BB might have made the best call, even with all the advances in electro drum tecnology they are not gracefull enough or reliable enough for this band live, unless you have continual time to tweak." Andy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 10:18:52 +0200 From: Gnad Markus Subject: Gordon Haskell Hi there! Anybody forgot that remarkable voice? Well, here's what I found on his homepage: "Other groups played in, but no recordings: The League Of Gentlemen " What does that mean???? Did he join them onstage? Who knows? Speaking of Gordon Haskell, who knows where to get his amazing solo records (I only got "It Is And It Isn't")? Markus ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 05:12:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Hogan Subject: Schizoid Dimension-A Tribute To King Crimson Greetings Team: Is anyone aware if RF made any public comments about the release of 'Schizoid Dimension-A Tribute To King Crimson'? Just curious in Providence. Rgds, MLH ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 08:21:58 -0500 (CDT) From: tree23 at webtv dot net Subject: TCoL Reviews Babble, burble, banter, bicker, bicker, bicker... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 09:26:05 -0400 (EDT) From: flohansson at hockeymail dot com Subject: DeconstruKcting TCoL Okay, two weeks have passed now since acquiring TCoL. I must have listened to it a dozen times and (as always with KC-releases) it has been some hard work! =) ...and after some disappointment after the first couple of sessions with it, I start to really enjoy it! In my early review of the album, I thought it was boring and lacked struKcture... well, I still think that "Larks'IV", "FraKctured" and "Oyster Soup" are a bit too rough and unpolished (I am not saying anything against improvisation! I love my "ProjeKcts"-box!) and I still have my problems with the v-drums (yes, I know BB also uses them frequently, but I have never heard him using them throughout an entire album) but there definitely are some hidden qualities! I do not think that TL & BB should be missed. TG does an excellent job and PM plays some incredible stuff, too (though I don't like the sound of... well, you know! =) ). As several Crimheads have said before, this album takes some time, but then you'll like it! I can't wait to see their live show!!! flo ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #673 ********************************