Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #672 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 672 Friday, 19 May 2000 Today's Topics: GIG BIZ: UK dates next batch of re-masters The End is Nigh - More Crim gathering First Impressions tCoL de-construKction LTiA Compilation TCoL BRUFORD - Year 1991 TCOL TCoL, How can one NOT enjoy it???? New, Free, 10th Planet CD TCoL, I like it The ConstruKtion Of Light (again...) Pat and Bill Commentary on commentary Re: Construkction of Light is awesome Trans Am Re: Tim McVeigh If you miss BB, Earthworks is playing out there somewhere re: Prints of Soundscapes CD cover paintings Re: Is it over now? ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- From: vince dot beaney at excite dot com Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 04:35:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: GG BIZ: UK dates Apparently, tickets are on sale for Shepherd's Bush Empire (London) on 3 July. (At least according to my brother, who tells me he has ordered one - the date originally proposed was 4th July, which is why I kept that free in my diary, and now cannot make the 3rd - perhaps if enough of you go on the 3rd, they'll do another night on the 4th - here's hoping) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 18:58:50 EDT From: Jeffcone9679 at cs dot com Subject: next batch of re-masters where can I find out the dates for the next batch of 24 bit remasters? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 20:07:40 -0400 From: pete Subject: The End is Nigh - More Okay. I'll rise to the flaming. I'm buying the album (as I intended to do). I will listen with open ears, several times. And, I'll write a non-arrogant review. (I'll probably catch the tour too.) Pete McClymont http://connect.to/pete http://members.xoom.com/mcclymontp Opinions get in the way of facts, I guess. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 23:25:55 -0400 From: John Barnas Subject: Crim gathering Entry of the Crims Saturday, May 20, 2000 4:00 p.m. Bosco's Brew Pub Broadway becomes 21st Ave. (21st - how cosmic) right at Vanderbilt U, heading West about 10-12 blocks from 12th Ave. Bosco's is in the middle of the Vandy college strip on the right hand side. Every crimsoid who finds the group and yells very loudly: "I'm ConstruKcting Light!" will get a free mug of their favorite beverage (beer or soft drink or milk). Hint: The Stout is good. Bosco's brew has been voted the best in Nashville and they also are famous for their gourmet Pizza. So if you are looking for something to do please come join us and have some smiles before the show. I'm not a clown, but I don't wear a frown. - John p.s. we will have our cappuccino somewhere closer to the venue. The molecules must be vibrating from the TCOL sound check. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 01:48:52 -0300 From: "yazbeck" Subject: First Impressions tCoL I have just said that I have not heard the new album, but I am doing it right now, rather in a fraKctlised fashion (from the edges to the center) and it just flows through... I mean it sounds like a shelter for my listenig. "Prozakc Blues" must be a conteporary "Mother's Little Helper". Please don't make a drama of this irrelevant remark... I LIKE IT... RespeKctfully, GMY Quer linha desocupada nas Internets gratis? Multidiscador BOL. Totalmente gratis! http://www.bol.com.br/multi/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 09:01:47 +0100 From: brian palmer Subject: de-construKction dear all i purchased the new cd 'construkction' from amazon and i've just sent it back. what a disappointment. it would appear that mr fripp believes that adding a capital 'K' to the titles of certain tracks will cover up for a paucity of original ideas. listen to the original 'fracture' and hear the difference. while not wishing to disparage the drumming of pat mastelotto, he is hardly the hub around which the rest of the band turn and i do hope it wasn't his idea for such an appalling drum sound. looks like bill and tony were even more astute than we have given them credit for and, if i were them, i wouldn't be in any rush to rejoin the fold, though for crimson's sake, mr fripp had better hope that they do. regards brian very disappointed ===================================================== This e-mail originated from a Macintosh. All attachments are intentional, legitimate and virus-free. ===================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 08:27:00 +0000 From: Andreas Schoter Subject: LTiA Compilation Well, I'd been thinking of doing this for a while, but I'm glad I didn't because the release of TCoL has made the result better. What? Rather than arguing about whether TCoL stands up to vintage Crim or not, I made myself a compilation as follows: Fracture (S&BB) Larks' Tongues in Aspic I (LTiA) Larks' Tongues in Aspic II (LTiA) Larks' Tongues in Aspic III (ToaPP) Larks' Tongues in Aspic IV (TCoL) FraKctured (TCoL) It makes good listening - give it a go. Andreas Dr Andreas Schoter, Intertrader Ltd http://www.intertrader.com Tel: +44(0)131 553 0380, Fax: +44(0)131 553 0381 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 01:54:56 -0700 (PDT) From: jan geerts Subject: TCoL To me, this is the best KC since 'Red'. And the V-drums are absolutely great!!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 14:18:15 +0400 From: "GENNADI A. ORLOV" Subject: BRUFORD - Year 1991 Dear Friends! I would like to tell about ' 91 readers Poll Result, published in MODERN DRUMMER journal (JULY 1991). In the same magazine is published HALL of FAME and it looks so: 1991 - Art Blakey 1990 - BILL BRUFORD 1989 - Carl Palmer 1988 - Joe Morello 1987 - Billy Cobham 1986 - Tony Williams 1985 - Louie Bellson 1984 - Steve Gadd 1983 - Neil Peart 1982 - Keith Moon 1981 - John Bonham 1980 - Buddy Rich 1979 - Gene Crupa In ' 91 readers poll results BILL BRUFORD is presented only in 2 categories from 17. ELECTRIC JAZZ DRUMMER 1 Dave Weckl 2 Steve Smith 3 Danny Gottlieb 4 BILL BRUFORD 5 Dennis Chambers ---------------------- PROGRESSIVE ROCK DRUMMER 1 William Calhoun 2 Terry Bozzio 3 Jonathan Mover 4 Scott Rockenfield 5 BILL BRUFORD Thank You, Gennadi Orlov Moscow, RUSSIA ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 09:34:36 -0500 From: wviland at thin-film dot com Subject: TCOL Two weeks with TCOL. Maybe 15 listens. I have recently started to skip to 'FracKtured' when I only have a few minutes to listen. I really enjoy this version of a long time favorite. Anyway... the first two week brings me to say.... Its good. I would also say, that if King Crimson has been of interest to you, the new recording is essential. However, I personally would not mark it as a reference to King Crimsons work. I currently have 42 King Crimson/Robert Fripp recordings of some form in my house. All legit purchased commercial recordings, not counting the many (worn out vinyl) I've past to music enthusiast through the years. I first heard KC around 1978, introduced to 'Lizard' while gathered with friends discussing how music of yesterday had MORE than that of the day. An argument that will continue longer than I. All said, Robert I have a request. I know you despise the expectation of the fans thing. And the "man I worship you please recognize me" thing. But, you have the talent/vision to bring back BIGGER extremely more complex music. Lizard, Larks, or Poseidon on 21st Century steroids. Its not that I expect King Crimson to create this sort of music, But I know they can. When I have an hour or so alone, I race to the stereo pop in one or all of the fore mentioned titles sit back and transport to another time, and another place. I find these also 'Starless' and 'Red' so invigorating I feel fatigue at the end of listening session. I do enjoy all types of music from 'Horowitz' to 'Tool', for me they have a different purpose. But a band that can play the spectrum in one fluent album or one piece is a refernce to which to compare all. P.S. I also have a shit load of AB stuff. Compliments of a 'Turd'. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 08:10:59 PDT From: "Andrew Thiermann" Subject: TCoL, How can one NOT enjoy it???? I have to say as an avid reader of ET and listener to all things Crimson I am very disappointed with the responses that fellow Crim-heads have been posting. Fair enough, we all have our opinions. But to say whole-heartedly that this album is not good, is a very bold and I fear to say ignorant statement...I feel that TCoL is excellent, in everyway, shape and form. However, I understand that KC's recent approaches to their music have been met with a lot of negative responses. This I cannot understand. The ProjeKcts did exactly what they said they were going to do. 'Examine the new 'direction' of KC' One sees themes from the ProjeKcts in a good number of the new tracks, things from Deception of the Thrush for instance...as well as interesting new continuations on much older songs (FraKctured, LTiA Part IV) these not only continue themes and ideas of some of the classic KC tunes but also put added touches. I sat for an hr. just going back and forth between Fracture and FraKctured to see similarities differences and just overall qualities of both. I also seem to be in the minority of people who enjoy the new Drum angle, which is not only mixing KC with Electronica but also keeping the odd tempos, off beats and quality melange of ideas that has always been with KC with BB or without him. I think that KC is not just one member, it's many. The ideas are flowing and are not all from one source, you can feel the melodic guitar work between both RF and AB at all moments, even when they are completely contrasting. Overall I think this is one of the best things to come out of KC in a while, not to downplay any of their other releases at all but it's great to see that they have mixed the experimenting from the ProjeKcts along side with the classics (you can also sense a bit of the ToAPP guitar melodies in a few tracks) to come up with an innovative and excellent Album. If you don't like it well than that's your opinion but I have a difficult time seeing why people constantly slate KC's work and yet continue to write in to ET and buy their albums...I don't know maybe someone can answer that for me. Andrew Thiermann andrew77fc at hotmail dot com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 11:35:32 -0400 From: cjowett at pe-corp dot com Subject: New, Free, 10th Planet CD Greetings, Some of you might have heard some of my music via the Elephant Tape page. I have just completed a new CD and will send a free copy to anyone, anywhere in the world. If possible, please listen to a track or two before deciding to request a copy of the CD. MP3 versions are available at: http://www.mp3.com/the10planet http://members.tripod.com/~the10planet Thanks, Charles ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 18:35:16 +0200 From: Roger Espel Llima Subject: TCoL, I like it In response to all these "disappointed by TCoL" posts, I feel I have to chime in and say, so far I've really enjoyed this album. The biggest thing I like about it is that it brings back the crafty-twiddly guitars of the Discipline and Guitar Craft, but this time *integrates* them with the rest of KC's musical palette, from the 70s-ish Larks sound to the ProjeKCts, and it works *well*. TCoL (the track, not the album) is the track that does this best, together with "Into the Frying Pan". I'll go as far as to say that, in my opinion, TCoL is what Thrak should have been. Two small problems with it though: * I don't know if "ProzaKc blues" is supposed to be a joke, but in any case I don't get it. I like the bluesy bits of 70s KC as much as anyone, but this sounds an overbrought, electronically enhanced collection of blues cliches. * This album is desperately missing a quiet, melodic bit. "I have a dream" was it, but sadly enough, it got removed. -- Roger Espel Llima, espel at iagora dot net http://www.iagora.com/~espel/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 20:50:55 +0100 From: Chris Wright Subject: The ConstruKtion Of Light (again...) Dear All, Having listened to TCOL since its release, and having seen a number of reviews in the press, ET, etc I feel I must agree with those who have dubbed the album a crushing disappointment. Most of the material contained within the Projekts Box hinted that KC had a bright future ahead, but instead we get a set of lumpy, leaden songs & instrumental rehashes. Heard it all before chaps! Perhaps you could try something really original like going out under a different name - especially as listening to TCOL it appears that the spirit of KC seems to have left the building (permanently?) The Construktion Of Light? The ConstruKtion of A*** more like! There, I can tell my therapist I'm feeling much better now... Yours with spleen vented, Chris P.S Yes, the drums do sound horrible - but think about it...Pat Mastelotto first came to prominence in a band called Mr Mister who sucked big time, and now... -- Chris Wright ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 13:06:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Timothy Andrew Edwards Subject: Pat and Bill > There is no heartbeat underlying the guitar figures, nothing to propel > the music forwards, instead just thrashing around on dreadful > sounding drum pads. A real disappointment when you > contrast with the incredible `live' drum sounds on Thrak. > Definitely a case of BB making his absence felt ! I guess you didn't/don't care for Bill Bruford's heavy use of Simmons electronic drums either...? Just curious. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 14:33:49 -0500 From: Todd Madson Subject: Commentary on commentary I find it interesting that there has been so much negative commentary on the new recording, most uttered or posted before the proper release is even out. The recording quality via the real audio stream (even at 56k) is not what I would term adequate for critical listening. And what I say here is strictly my opinion, take it with a grain of salt. It's not the only one out there. What I've heard this far has been impressive. Of the four tracks I've managed to hear, I find that this period of the group seems to concentrate on brutal, taut energy adding dissonance (and an almost stupefying level of accuracy and technique when it comes to alternate picking on the guitar). I don't mind electronic drumming. I use electronic drums in my own music, there are advantages and disadvantages to "real" drums, but either played with real skill can be as compelling. Robert Fripp (in his diary) has intimated that this may be the King Crimson "rock" band (not pop, not other genres). From what I can hear so far, I would agree. But I also hear something else that I can't quite put my finger on...there's something here that has its own unique atmosphere unto itself apart from the harmonies I hear and the types of structures used. Can anyone else hear this? It's a different atmosphere from the Thrak band even if some of the personnel are the same. Now, some of the readers of this digest have suggested that they were dissappointed due to their expectations being shattered. Perhaps my liking what I'm hearing is due to the fact that I had no expectations for this recording. And for those who are still likely to lay face down in chocolate cake and cry for the "Crimson that could have been", perhaps you should start your own band and make the music that Crimson didn't. You do have that option. It's not an easy option, but an option nevertheless. -Todd ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 21:15:46 -0500 From: Dmitry Litvintsev Subject: Re: Construkction of Light is awesome >Hi Folks, > >I've been listening to Construkction of Light already for the 3rd hour >(realaudio). Great stuff. Reminds me of Red or Starless and Bible Black >somehow. Since I don't have any info about the disk I've got a question. >Who is singing on the first track (Prozakc Blues)? > >[ And so a new FAQ is born. It's Adrian Belew, his voice digitally > processed. Adrian commented on this himself in a recent on-line chat >(www.canoe.ca/cgi-bin/hchat/hchat?Room=adrianBelew) -- Toby ] Hi Toby and all, Thanks for explanation. I can't resist to comment that he (Adrian) shoud always have been processed in the same manner. At least, starting from THRAK, where (IMHO) his sweet ballads were in some dissonance with the heavier (and my favorite) tracks. Here, with 'TCoL' is the same story - I can't stand his whining in 'The Frying Pan', or nonsentical 'Oysters...' - a copy of 'Sex Sleep Eat Drink Dream' (IMHO again) The rest is really superB. thanks for your patience, I guess the new release really excited me - I never wrote to ET before. regards, Dmitry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 23:59:28 EDT From: Mikewyz at aol dot com Subject: Trans Am I recently got wind of a band called Trans Am. Looking into their music, I noticed that the blurb for them at Amazon.com says, "This is no-expense, parents'-basement tapes stuff, King Crimson on a budget." Would anyone here care to comment on that remark's validity/lack thereof and, if necessary, make appropriate recommendations? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 00:22:56 -0600 (CST) From: TIMOTHY GUEGUEN Subject: Re: Tim McVeigh On Wed, 17 May 2000, Elephant Talk wrote: > From: Piotr Zlotkowski > Subject: a flaw on TCOL? Tim McVeigh? > > Hello, > > Has anybody noticed a click on the 3rd track, at 0:25, just when AB > sings "God"? Or is it only on my copy? > My second question is: who is Tim McVeigh, mentioned in "I Have A Dream" > lyrics? I didn't manage to find this name anywhere... I suspect our esteemed moderation team will get about 800 responses to this, but here goes. Tim McVeigh was one of the extreme right wing lunatics responsible for the destruction of the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City on April 19th, 1995, which killed scores of people. He was tried and convicted of the crime. He was a former US Army soldier who had served in Operation Desert Storm and at some point had become active on the fringes of the extreme right. tim gueguen 101867 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 09:03:11 +0200 From: masse at geocean dot u-bordeaux dot fr (Laurent MASSE) Subject: If you miss BB, Earthworks is playing out there somewhere I thought the "A Bruford-less Crimson, is life after Bill possible" thread was over. Apparently not. Various reactions to the last two ET's >I don't hear anything of Belews >"melodicpop influenc" and i don't hear a rythmsection that is exciting. Sorry, but I do. This may not be the rhythmic fireworks many of you knew you would miss before even hearing the album, but a very precise work well worth digging, with BRUFORD/LEVIN free ears. >"Thrack" is a masterpiece, productionwise, soundwise, materialwise, Sorry, but I do not agree. When THRAK came out, I was so disappointed by the material and sound that it took six months to finally accept it, but I still consider it too consensual. TCOL is far more radical. I may not like all of it (Oyster soup, LTIA4), but this happened to me before (I still skip Thela and Sheltering Sky on Discipline), and the beginning intrigues me enough to invite me in repeated listening. >compared to this record, I truly hope they play some old stuff at the >concerts in Copenhagen in two weeks time. Better for you not to be there. >P.s. they have to get the world's top bassplayer & drummer back in the band. Did you even give a listen to what Trey plays? >Well, I have not heard the new album yet (I am waiting >whit fret) but I won't need to do so in order to find >that KC has lost something important with his departure. So please refrain: you WILL be disappointed, and you already know it. >Bill is a great >drummer, and one cannot find another Bill Bruford around! So please move towards where he is now (Earthworks), instead of staying there and lamenting his departure from KC! Laurent Masse masse at geocean dot u-bordeaux dot fr ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 10:47:43 +0100 From: Peter Clinch

Subject: re: Prints of Soundscapes CD cover paintings In ET #671, Tim Walker asked: > Does anyone know if it is possible to buy decent-sized prints (say, > about 24" wide) of John Miller's paintings for the Soundscapes CD > covers? DGM sell a set of the three covers as posters. They're a bit smaller than your ideal at 16x24", but I have a set hung on my wall and they look rather good there, drawing favourable comment from people who haven't even heard of Fripp or Soundscapes (esp. the Midnight Blue). #10 for the set, "POSTER 3" is the DGM catalogue code, and they can be ordered online. For another fiver you can have a set signed by RF, though personally I'd have thought being signed by JM would be more appropriate if you're into autography... If you're wondering how a square painting gets to be 16x24, it stays square but with extended white border underneath with the album name, artist and DGM logo in restrained, complimentary type. There's a photo from the DGM online shop now so you can see the layout. Pete. -- Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net p dot j dot clinch at dundee dot ac dot uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 07:23:59 -0400 From: Moses Subject: Re: Is it over now? In ET #670, someone said: >>> I'm sorry to say that [TCoL] is bad. We heard it all before on >>> Crimson records. So, that means all the other Crimson records are bad? And, FWIW, I like Pat's playing and the V-Drums. Call me a non-purist, I guess. Moses ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #672 ********************************