Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #671 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 671 Tuesday, 16 May 2000 Today's Topics: GIG BIZ: King Crimson London gig. Not a Review of T-Lev Band TCOL / Bonn shows cancelt !? BLUE nights special web pages: where are they? Prints of Soundscapes CD cover paintings a flaw on TCOL? Tim McVeigh? for whom is the music for? Re: percussion CoL TCOL Impressions Prog (KC) reviews in UK press Third of a Perfect Ten! I Have A Dream TAB Status of Tony Levin & Bill Bruford Hell Boy Tom Redmond... "Son, you been reading too much Elephant Talk" I Pity Inanimate Objects / TCOL I like TCoL... RE: TCOL : I hate to bring up the subject of percussion, but.. Sustain & Blabla Re: Sustainer or not? ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 13:15:40 +0100 From: James Beard Subject: GIG BIZ: King Crimson London gig. This may have been mentioned, but I haven't seen it in the newsletter yet. King Crimson have just the one UK date for their European Tour as yet. It's on the 3rd July at the Shepherd's Bush Empire in London. But the tickets will probably be gone very soon, so be warned. James. -- James Beard Production Runner - Qtwo http://www.unique.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 00:51:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Kathryn Ottersten Subject: Not a Review of T-Lev Band Hi Crimpersons, I just returned home after being blown away by the T-Lev Band here at NYC's luxurious Knitting Factory. For those worried about seeing this tour, please be reassured: this is a band that Rocks! Even if you find the "Waters of Eden" to be a little too mellow (which I don't), do not fear. The volume and energy have been significantly turned up, and it has been many years since I went to a show where the band engaged the audience as much as these guys did. I leave the actual review to others. But I know what I like, and if T-Lev swings around again on this tour I will be back again. Now, at 3:30 am, I am off to collapse. Kathy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 12:15:52 +0100 From: removed at users dot request (GW) Subject: TCOL / Bonn shows cancelt !? Just listenend to TCOL for the first time ... it blew me away ! And it also blew my Sony Discman ... it refuses to play since TCOL. Strange ... This record is a monster. I'm not a Crim Head, but listening to all kinds of music in the Jazz and Rock Genres for 30 years now. Whatever happend, there has always been the latest KC record. Dividing critics and fans. You have to love it or to hate it. 3 Decades of Crimson. Robert: please don't stop the madness ;-) Adrian "Tom Waits" Belew: please don't take ET too seriously. I'm a fan since I saw you as "stunt guitarist" with Frank Z. in the 70ies. Where have all the years gone !? Concerning the KC tour: I can't get tickets for the Bonn show (6th of June). Has this show been cancelt !? If not: what about gathering some ET-readers on the Museumsplatz ? Who will be there ? Ciao Gerd_W ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 19:15:19 +0200 From: Eric Brunel Subject: BLUE nights special web pages: where are they? Hi everyone. I saw on the Papabear website that there are special Web pages for the owners of the BLUE nights CD. Here is the exact quote from Tony's diary: > I'm pleased to see that sales of Blue Nights are moving along, but there are > special web pages set up for those who buy the cd, and I see that they're not > getting accessed much. Perhaps I was too subtle with the url in the cd booklet - > so can I urge those who have the cd to look up that site address and take a look. > He was certainly too subtle as I've been completely unable to find the URL in my booklet (re-read the whole thing twice, but nothing...). Maybe it's because I've got an early Japanese release and that the URL isn't in it (my booklet has had obvious printing problems...)? If anybody has spotted the URL and can forward it to me, it would be very nice. Private answers are welcome (you don't want *every*body to get the address of *our* pages, don't you?). Thanx in advance. - eric - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 21:43:15 +0100 From: "Tim Walker" Subject: Prints of Soundscapes CD cover paintings Hi all, Does anyone know if it is possible to buy decent-sized prints (say, about 24" wide) of John Miller's paintings for the Soundscapes CD covers? I would really like to have a print of "Midnight Blue" (the cover of "A Blessing Of Tears"), but when I contacted David Messum Fine Art about it, they said the painting was a private commission by Robert, and was not available as a print in the same way as much of Miller's other work is. If anyone reading this could suggest a solution, I would be very grateful; although I would prefer a quite large print, I would settle for a smaller one (say, A4/Letter-size) if only that format is available. Many thanks! Tim. *************Tim Walker - Staines, Middlesex, UK************ Electronic guitarist & looping musician Steinberger GS7-TA, Roland VG8, Boomerang Phrase Sampler *****tawalker at dircon dot co dot uk - www.tawalker.dircon.co.uk****** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 20:50:07 +0200 From: Piotr Zlotkowski Subject: a flaw on TCOL? Tim McVeigh? Hello, Has anybody noticed a click on the 3rd track, at 0:25, just when AB sings "God"? Or is it only on my copy? My second question is: who is Tim McVeigh, mentioned in "I Have A Dream" lyrics? I didn't manage to find this name anywhere... Peter -- PRZEWODNIK PO ZAPOMNIANYCH GRUPACH ROCKOWYCH: http://www.amwaw.edu.pl/~pzlotko ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 00:03:59 PDT From: "chris childs" Subject: for whom is the music for? Greetings, I have read with interest some of the negative posts regarding TCOL, and I thought I would put in my 2 cents worth as my first posting here. One of the things I like most about Robert Fripp, and King Crimson is the same thing I like in most of my favourite musicians. They make the kind of music that they want to make. Neil Young does that, David Bowie, REM, are some of the few bands that make the kind of music that they want to as opposed to what they think will sell. I am sure they hope you like TCOL, but the most important thing to them is they as artists are satisfied. As soon as Mr. Fripp et al start making music that they think their fans will like they will be no better than Ricky Martin and Britney Spears. KC has always been a band that challenges the listener, and the various lads have decided to take KC in one direction, as in the past sometimes that direction is completely different than the album prior, sometimes it's a step in the same direction. What do I think of the album, I look at KC albums as a launching point for a tour. This new album provides a solid base for what I think is going to a tour that will blow all of our proverbial socks off. Cheers from Whistler, British Columbia Chris ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 10:25:16 +0200 From: masse at geocean dot u-bordeaux dot fr (Laurent MASSE) Subject: Re: percussion >dept that is plain for all to see . There is no heartbeat underlying the >guitar figures, nothing to propel the music forwards, instead just >thrashing around on dreadful sounding drum pads. A real disappointment when >you contrast with the incredible `live' drum sounds on Thrak. Definitely a >case of BB making his absence felt ! Definitely a case of too much expectations. Exactly as any blues guitar fan will be horrified by Ade and Robert's playing and should go back to his old favourites, the fact you are horrified by Pat's playing proves you should go back to Earthworks/trad jazz. I think Pat's work on TCOL is really interesting: he forgets who he is, has no overwhelming style to alienate the music with (exactly what BB does, and I like his style very much nevertheless). He doesn't go for any obvious groove but gets deeply into the music to underline some elements (and in this he is very close to Trey, listen to the intro section of TCOL). If you mix him alone, his parts will have no significance on their own, but with the rest, they become totally relevant. By listening to P3, I had the thought he was drumscaping or rhythmscaping instead of drumming, anyway this guy definitely pushes the boundaries, exactly what KC needs. Finally a drummer whose approach matches what the music dictates. Plus under the shadow of Bill, he didn't have much space to express himself. And if you are annoyed by the sound, go and get yourself any techno record, listen to it until nausea and then come back to TCOL: you will enjoy it Laurent Masse masse at geocean dot u-bordeaux dot fr ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 04:51:42 -0700 (PDT) From: jan geerts Subject: CoL I was just reading the ET newsletter, containing a lot of critisism on CoL, when I got my copy from DGM by mail(and very fast I might add). So, I put it on and...whheeeeew Well, I have three (little) points : - there aren't many dynamics in the overall sound (I hoped for the sound of the '96 recordings on 'Cirkus') - some restpoints in 'Larks IV' would have been nice - it's mainly Belew who does the (great! -what's all this talk about AB not being good enough for Crim???)solo's. Bill is my favorite drummer by far, but Pat is great here, and I loooove the V-drums. 'Fracture' is my favorite Crimsong, but 'Frakctured' is really great too! And so are the rest. I wonder if they've been listening to Deus (Oyster)and Radiohead (Coda, really chilling). This is music for the present and future, and with a lot of seventies-feel(e.g. CoL - Yes!) to it, though it's not 'recycling' at all. And the lyrics have never been better. I'm going to listen to it again now. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 13:32:07 +0100 From: Gerard dot Coughlan at irishlife dot ie Subject: TCOL Impressions I've just been reading #669 and I thought I'd react to the latest bout of opinions regarding the new album. I have the album over a week now and I must admit that after this time I feel pretty disappointed with it. I've read some gripes about the drum sound and I find myself nodding in agreement. I love the V Drums in Projekct 3 and 4 but don't expect much along these lines on the new album. It all just reverts back to "hitting things hard and often". However, this alone did not put me off the album. Overall I find the album dull and too derivative of previous KC "classics". Maybe if this was the first Crimson album I ever bought I'd think it was better. Then I wouldn't realise how much most of the instrumental ideas are all a re-hash of old songs. I don't buy these explanations of "re-vamping" and "updating" and "being allowed to refer to a particular musical vocabulary". With this album I feel that King Crimson is turning more and more into a formula revolving around unrelenting guitar noise, ridiculous time signatures and a distinct lack of melody and harmony. The technology may be 2000 but the music is using 1974 as it's main reference point. Maybe its too much Fripp and not enough Belew and Gunn? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 13:36:42 +0100 From: Gerard dot Coughlan at irishlife dot ie Subject: Prog (KC) reviews in UK press I don't think the UK press as a whole is as mean towards Crimson as it used to be. Some recent examples come to mind ... John Bungey reviews TCOL in the current issue of MOJO - it's a pretty objective review from a man who is obviously a fan. He didn't say it was great but he gave an informed opinion. I have seen reviews of the new Crimson re-issues in mainstream mags and they weren't dismissive at all. In fact, overall they were very favourable. The archive DGM live albums have all gotten good press whenever they were reviewed especially Epitaph and Nightwatch. The Sunday Times always feature prominent Crimson and Projekct reviews and they tend to be complimentary. MOJO had the Projekcts box set as album of the month a while back as well. Adrian Belew invariably gets good reviews. So it's not all bad these days ... Gerard ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 13:41:13 +0000 From: "Krzysztofa Usnarska-Talerzak" Subject: Third of a Perfect Ten! Hi! I would like to report that recently (friday, 12.05.2000), in a local newspaper, which was bought by my mother the same day, I found an interesting fragment that might make you a little happier. It is called 'Wroclaw's Popcultural Ranking' and presents the lists of top ten best selling books, video tapes and albums that are sold in our city. I was very surprised and pleased to notice that King Crimson's 'TCoL' appeared on ... the THIRD PLACE!!! According to the fact that the official release of the album in Poland was on 9.05.2000 (so only 3 days passed - yes, yes, newspapers from 12.05 are closed at the evening of 11.05!!!) AND the fact that KC does not seem to be Metallica-like band, I think it is very surprising. Moreover, KC was the best selling foreign album, 'overtaking' (...VROOOM!) e.g. A-Ha, Santana, Him, Cypress Hill and 2PAC! Unfortunately, I don't know the number of people that have bought 'TCoL', but considering that Wroclaw has almost 700 thousand of residents the number should be pretty big. And I always thought I am the chosen... Long live the KING and Poland!!! Two things more: 1.I would also like to propose such a small investigation to other ETalkers. Maybe you'll find Crimso on a top in your city too? 2.I'm new on ET, so maybe it would be a misunderstanding, but let me ask one question: Has KC ever been on any commercial 'TOP something' chart? I think about albums and songs. Greetings, TOMEK ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 13:53:59 -0700 From: wiszniot at biol dot uni dot wroc dot pl Subject: I Have A Dream TAB Hi, I have made a trancription of I Have A Dream acoustic version and thought you would like to get it My best wishes, TOMEK TALERZAK I Have a Dream (Intro [coda?] to "Larks' Tongues in Aspic Part IV") by King Crimson (Belew/Fripp) TransKcription of the acoustic version which didn't appear on "the construKction of light" album. Based on Belew's free mp3. Author: Tomasz Talerzak - Wroc3aw, POLAND According to Adrian, the song was born while the rest of the boys were rehearsing a slow tempo of "Larks' IV": "... I started writing a string of chord changes to their pulse. They were interesting changes. Eight chord shapes moving downward chromatically which after 24 bars end up back where they began." For details (and mp3 download) see: www.murple.com/adrianbelew/ihad.htm Spaces between notes don't necessarily represent the duration of the notes! METRUM: 4/4 !!! Intro e|-----------------|-----------------|-----------------|-------| B|-----------------|-----------------|-----------------|-------| G|-----8-----8-----|-----8-----8-----|-----8-----8-----|----5--| D|---5-----5-----5-|---5-----5-----5-|---5-----5-----5-|--3----| A|-----------------|-----------------|-----------------|-------| E|-8-----8-----8---|-7-----7-----7---|-6-----6-----6---|-5-----| Verse #1 e|-----------------|-----------------|-----------------|-----------------| B|-----------------|-----------------|-----------------|-----------------| G|-----6-----6-----|-----6-----6-----|-----6-----6-----|-----4-----4-----| D|---3-----3-----3-|---3-----3-----3-|---3-----3-----3-|---1-----1-----1-| A|-----------------|-----------------|-----------------|-----------------| E|-6-----6-----6---|-5-----5-----5---|-4-----4-----4---|-3-----3-----3---| Tragedys of Kennedys, refugees, AIDS disease, Verse #2 (barre?) e|-----------------|-----------------|-----------------|-----------------| B|-----------------|-----------------|-----------------|-----------------| G|-----4-----4-----|-----4-----4-----|-----4-----4-----|-----1-----1-----| D|---1-----1-----1-|---1-----1-----1-|---1-----1-----1-|-----------------| A|-----------------|-----------------|-----------------|---4-----4-----4-| E|-4-----4-----4---|-3-----3-----3---|-2-----2-----2---|-1-----1-----1---| photos of Hiroshima, the Holocaust, and Kosovo, Verse #3 e|--------------------|--------------------|--------------------|----------- ---| B|--------------------|--------------------|--------------------|----------- ---| G|------14-----14-----|------14-----14-----|------14-----14-----|---12---12- ---| D|---11-----11-----11-|---11-----11-----11-|---11-----11-----11-|--9----9--- --9| A|--------------------|--------------------|--------------------|----------- ---| E|-14-----14-----14---|-13-----13-----13---|-12-----12-----12---|11---11---1 1--| Tim McVeigh, Saddam Hussein, the bombing of the World Trade Verse #4 e|--------------------|--------------------|--------------------|----------- ---| B|--------------------|--------------------|--------------------|----------- ---| G|------12-----12-----|------12-----12-----|------12-----12-----|----9-----9 ---| D|----9------9------9-|----9------9------9-|----8------8------8-|--7-----7-- --7| A|--------------------|--------------------|--------------------|----------- ---| E|-12-----12-----12---|-11-----11-----11---|-10-----10-----10---|-9----9---- 9--| hostages in Bosnia, atrocities, South Africa, Verse #5 e|--------------------|-----------------|-----------------|----------------| B|--------------------|-----------------|-----------------|----------------| G|------10-----10-----|-----10----10----|-----10----10----|-----8-----8----| D|----7------7------7-|---7-----7-----7-|---7-----7-----7-|---5-----5----5-| A|--------------------|-----------------|-----------------|----------------| E|-10-----10-----10---|-9-----9-----9---|-8-----8-----8---|-7-----7----7---| abortion and Kevorkian, Vietnam, napalm, Verse #6 (ALMOST as intro) e|-----------------|-----------------|-----------------|----------------| B|-----------------|-----------------|-----------------|----------------| G|-----8-----8-----|-----8-----8-----|-----8-----8-----|----5-----5-----| D|---5-----5-----5-|---5-----5-----5-|---4-----4-----4-|--3-----3-----3-| A|-----------------|-----------------|-----------------|----------------| E|-8-----8-----8---|-7-----7-----7---|-6-----6-----6---|-5----5-----5---| Lady Di, and Lennon died a violent crime, Columbine, Verse #7 (ALMOST AS VERSE #1) e|-----------------|-----------------|-----------------|---------------| B|-----------------|-----------------|-----------------|---------------| G|-----6-----6-----|-----6-----6-----|-----6-----6-----|----4-----4----| D|---3-----3-----3-|---3-----3-----3-|---3-----3-----3-|--1-----1----1-| A|-----------------|-----------------|-----------------|---------------| E|-6-----6-----6---|-5-----5-----5---|-4-----4-----4---|-3----3----3---| "I have a dream that one day..." Rodney King, O.J., Verse #8 (ALMOST as verse #2) e|-----------------|-----------------|-----------------|-------| B|-----------------|-----------------|-----------------|-------| G|-----4-----4-----|-----4-----4-----|-----4-----4-----|-----1-| D|---1-----1-----1-|---1-----1-----1-|---0-----0-----0-|-------| A|-----------------|-----------------|-----------------|---4---| E|-4-----4-----4---|-3-----3-----3---|-2-----2-----2---|-1-----| symbols of our lives and times, "One giant leap for mankind" In the "power ballad" version with full instrumentation, used in "tcol", there are some changes, of course, but the main idea and the core are the same. So think it up yourself! My best wishes to all of you - noble Eters!!! TOMEK PS I made this transKcription with violin E string missing (it's broken - an accident). Thank you, Ade for not using it in your song! ;-) PPS This is my first ET mail & first ET tab. Wow! Please mail if there are any mistakes. I HAVE A DREAM Tragedys of Kennedys, refugees, AIDS disease, photos of Hiroshima, the Holocaust, and Kosovo, Tim McVeigh, Saddam Hussein, the bombing of the World Trade hostages in Bosnia, atrocities, South Africa, abortion and Kevorkian, Vietnam, napalm, Lady Di, and Lennon died a violent crime, Columbine, "I have a dream that one day..."Rodney King, O.J., symbols of our lives and times, "One giant leap for mankind" -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- michtal at poczta dot fm OR talerzak at culex dot biol dot uni dot wroc dot pl "AND IF WARHOL'S A GENIUS, WHAT AM I, A SPECK OF LINT ON THE PENIS OF AN ALIEN BURRIED IN GELATIN BENEATH THE SANDS OF VENUS" -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ Date: 13.05.2000 (+-12.00 A.M. CET) From: "melvin zirkes" Subject: Status of Tony Levin & Bill Bruford I saw Tony Levin Saturday night at the Knitting Factory in NY. I thought I should pass it along that he announced that neither he nor Bill have left the band and both expect to be returning. The implication seemed to be that they would not be joining in later in the tour, but will return for the next album. Tony also said that he does not know Peter Gabriel's tour plans, and although he was playing with Larry Fast and Jerry Marotta, both of Pete's 80's band, he seemed to indicate that he might not be on that tour either. Oh well, we may still hope. As for the show, well, the warm-up, Richard Leo (or Leon?) Johnson completely kicked butt. You wouldn't believe what this man did with the guitar. As for Tony, well, although New Age music is not my thing, it was definitely enjoyable and ended rocking with "Elephant Talk," a new song I liked but didn't know the title of, and finally, "I Go Swimming." Overall though, if you are planning to catch Tony Levin this tour, expect New Age, not Crimson. Scott Cooper ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 12:21:24 -0500 From: "William L. Howell" Subject: Hell Boy Tom Redmond... The Midnight Mecca sight for the Nashville show had a post from Robert Fripp. It referred to the legendary Hell Boy Tom Redmond. Can anyone enlighten the uninitiated to the legend? -Bill ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 15:45:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Darryl Subject: "Son, you been reading too much Elephant Talk" Here's my first impressions of TCOL(I will put my full review on ET Web-Releases page after I give it a dozen more listens). I just bought it on the 13th and never heard the web-broadcast. I can't believe how many so-called Crimson fans criticize this album. As far as I'm concerned KC has never made a bad album, that's the purpose of Fripp breaking-up and reforming the group. Even LIZARD and THREE OF A PERFECT PAIR were good, not great but still worth having. TCOL is actually the first KC release I purchased the same year it came out. I like it for two reasons: 1) It's a new KC album, and 2) It's a great new rock album released during the era of Britney Spears, Backstreet Boys and "been there, done that" rap music. To me it's a perfect blend of prog-rock, industrial, metal and blues-rock. As far as the drums go, I don't mind the sound of them, but they do tend to sound like they were programmed instead of played in real-time. I loved "ProzaKc Blues" and "Into The Frying Pan". "The World's..." might take a few more listens to get used to. The title track is not a highlight but is good nonetheless. I actually liked "FraKctured", although there's nothing in it that resembles the climactic heavy part of the original(the part where Wetton goes "wooo!") "Lark's Pt. 4" is more dissapointing, but "Coda: I Have A Dream" is great. I'm not sure what to make of the ProjeKct X track; it doesn't seem to fit in and who plays on that song anyway? The same four musicians? Overall, a good first impression. I just wish you whiners would shut up and tell us what you think in 3 months, when you really get an appreciation for the album...V-drums or not. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 15:57:37 -0400 From: Brian Preston Subject: I Pity Inanimate Objects / TCOL Did somebody say "L". Oh how I miss that vinyl listening... FreezeFrame or L on CD??????? Business is Business Sounds like a real mixed bag of reviews for TCOL... rumor has it the boys may come through NC this tour... but , where's Bill??????????????????? Brian Preston Smokin'Granny, et al www.smokingranny.home.mindspring.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 16:02:29 -0400 From: Jon Subject: I like TCoL... Hi, I am in the US so TCoL is only available to me via Real audio for now but I think its really good...I mean its very very similar to the 73-74 with a more updated, fresh sound. I love Prozakc Blues...its a really funny song with some great music...Lark's Tongue Part IV is really amazing especially the end with I have a dream...I prefer this version to the acoustic hands down. I think the drumming is really good as is the whole sound in general. Fripp did stand out a lot perhaps more than what the 80s and 90s have taught us to expect but still he's wonderful on this album. I'm very impressed with what I've heard and I'm really looking forward to getting the CD...I would also like to thank KC for putting the tracks in real audio format...it made me very happy to hear them...I'm so impatient so this meant a lot to me :-) I think that this sound might be a bit much for some people to handle right now and I think you should take some more time to reflect upon what you've heard before you publicly blast KC for this record. I'm sure you didn't love every other KC record when you first got it but I bet you do now. I know I didn't like Starless and Bible Black when I first got it (I got the albums out of order so I was confused...the jump between Poseidon and starless was a strange one) but now it holds a special place in my heart along with every other KC record that I own. All I want to say is that while you have every right in the universe to hate this record and even post your hatred of this album on ET...I would like to suggest that you shouldn't until you've had more than a few days to reflect upon what you've heard...your words are read by members of KC and they have feelings too remember. I would hate to see someone discouraged from experimentation because of the rants of a few people who didn't get what they wanted from this record. Best wishes, Jon Swinghammer ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 18:00:51 -0300 From: "yazbeck" Subject: RE: TCOL : I hate to bring up the subject of percussion, but.. Hi there Excuse my writing, please, Mr. Colburn wrote in another's statement's (about BB's absence) reply: >Its "definitely" NOTHING but your opinion there, bub. Maybe it is his and several others opinion... Well, I have not heard the new album yet (I am waiting whit fret) but I won't need to do so in order to find that KC has lost something important with his departure. It is just like when Yes lost him... I've liked Mr. Mastelloto's work on P3 & P4 (west cost, I don't kwow, unfortunetly, the san Francisco's) and even made a comparison to the synclavier's drummer of FRANK ZAPPA, but this is another world. Bill is a great drummer, and one cannot find another Bill Bruford around! Best Regards everybody, Gabriel Yazbeck Quer linha desocupada nas Internets gratis? Multidiscador BOL. Totalmente gratis! http://www.bol.com.br/multi/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 23:46:21 +0200 From: Mart dot Meyer at t-online dot de (Martin Meyer) Subject: Sustain & Blabla Hi folks, lots of speculating about RF's guitar sound in here. One thing that is clear is that RF used very simple 'devices' in the early days. The sustain on one hand came from his Les Paul, a solid body guitar made of mahogany with a maple top. Mahogany is not very hard, but very dense. Maple is hard and adds the brilliance to the tone. On the other hand, the sustain was created by his pedalboard. In 1980, when I saw him with the League of Gentlemen, he used a very old 'Electro Harmonix Big Muff' and - I think - a 'Boss Compressor'. In Combination, these 'devices' can do exactly what you hear on the early KC- records. I know what I'm talking about, because I own a 'Big Muff' and a similar Compressor myself. In Addition, the pedalboard contained a wah-wah- and a volume-pedal. The wah-wah was plugged behind the 'Big Muff' to create the special sound you can hear on several soli. RF used it more like a filter than like a wah-wah in order to give every tone a special timbre. There was one more stomp box. I think it was a chorus pedal, but I don't know for shure. The power amplification is secondary, if you use a pedalboard like that. I think RF used many different amps, tube or solid state. When I saw him, he used a 'Roland Jazz Chorus 120'. Special effects RF used until 1974 included 'reverse playing' (as I pointed out in ET #667) and 'double amping', i.e. combining a distorted and a clean or crunched sound using a delay - most likely a 'Roland Chorus Echo', because it was th best thing you could get then - like on 'Sailors Tail' and 'Larks' Tongues In Aspic Pt. II'. I think it is absolutely fascinating, what he got out of those - very simple - effects and two 'Revox A 77' tape recorders, as you can hear on 'No Pussyfooting' & 'Evening Star' (with Eno) and the 'Frippertronics'-albums ('God Save The Queen', Let The Power Fall' and partly 'Exposure'). In the 80s with the new line-up, RF had discovered the 'Roland GR-300' (?) guitar synthesizer, which - among others - provided the trumpet-like sound, e.g. on 'The Sheltering Sky'. That Thing is not very well known, although it was used by several artists, like Pat Metheney and others. He also used his old - or similar - equipment at that time. By the time of the second KC reunion (1995) digital equipment had become broadly achievable. During the 'THRaKaTTak Tour' (1996) both Fripp and Belew used - I think I saw - virtual systems like the 'Roland VG-1'. Those systems allow you to produce almost every possible sound from the guitar using samples and digitally shaped amp setups. That means: By now you cant't conclude what they're doing by what you hear and what you know. Everything is possible. Even a guitar sounding like a piano or a Mellotron. About that Gizmo and E-Bow (or Fernandez Sustainer) thing: RF never had to use such 'devices', although I don't know, if he did. Just take a 'Les Paul', a compressor and a 'Big Muff'. Add a volume pedal and a wah-wah. You will hear it: That's the sound. But it's very hard to play. You have to damp every string that shouldn't sound. Otherwise all you get is spam. All this is brought to you by someone, who plays the guitar himself and knows and admires Fripps work. But sound is only one thing. Listen to TCoL. If you are a guitarist, your arms and hands ache just from listening to FraKctured and LTiA IV, and you need a bottle of ProzaKc. Keep on listening. And learning. Martin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 15:48:32 -0600 (CST) From: TIMOTHY GUEGUEN Subject: Re: Sustainer or not? On Mon, 15 May 2000, Elephant Talk wrote: > Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 16:36:11 -0400 > From: Rich Williams > Subject: Sustainer or not? > > >Ignacio Gomez wrote: > > >While I can't deny the validity of the data regarding the Fernandes > >sustainer, I'd like to mention that in 1989, when I bought my e-bow, the > >guitar shop offered me an e-bow like device (off the shelf, not custom > >made) that would go installed in the guitar. > > > >While I don't remember the brand (I thought it was Fernandes, guess not), I > >remember the year, 1989, and the fact that this was in Madrid Spain, where > >we get guitar (and other type of) innovations much later than people in USA > >or UK (I assume most of you guys reside in the USA, like I do now). Some > >food for thought? > > > Hmmmm. Sounds like you are referring to the > Gizmotron, developed by Lol Creme and Kevin Godley of 10cc fame. It > bolted over the bridge and used small rotating nylon wheels to "bow" > the strings. Not very many were made, and I haven't seen one in a > store for over 20 years. Given the date I suspect what he remembers isn't the Gizmotron. It seems unlikely one would be available at that late a date given how few were made and the problems it had. Rather I suspect the device in question was either the short lived Sustainiac, or the Floyd Rose Sustainer that Kramer marketed briefly around that time. The Sustainiac worked by plugging your guitar into a floor unit that tapped off a bit of the guitar signal and fed it back via a transducer you attached to the rear of your guitar headstock. If you've heard "God's Garden" off the first French/Frith/Kaiser/Thompson album you've heard it in action. The Floyd Rose Sustainer was a humbucking guitar pickup sized unit that installed in the neck slot on a Kramer guitar and probably worked in a similar fashion to the current Fernandes unit. Unfortunately it appeared about the same time that Kramer started to fall apart and it would seem only a few were sold. tim gueguen 101867 ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #671 ********************************