Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #669 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 669 Friday, 12 May 2000 Today's Topics: Re: For the Uninitiated Re: The End is Nigh TCoL reviews TCOL : I hate to bring up the subject of percussion, but.. About CENTIPEDE - SEPTEMBER ENERGY Various lyric meanings? forthcoming events Damage Summit Re:TCoL-Review TCOL impressions... Fernandes or gizmo? HMV, Rand Lost Piece and Electronic Drums The construkction of criticism Texas/ProjeKct 3 Answer Nashville Gigs, Where's The Feedback? E-Bow, "Definitive" DS interview Re: The End is Nigh replies ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 01:35:19 -0500 (CDT) From: david craig Subject: Re: For the Uninitiated >> "Having recently had the invitation to make a mix tape up for 2 >> open-minded friends of what I considered essential Crimson, I >> thought it would be fun to hear what songs other ET folk have used >> to proselytize the musical heathen" > > I've not had that particular pleasure of preparing tapes for the > newbies, but I've initiated several people via the old stereo > system. I always put on Neurotica; if they got past the > percussion onslaught in the intro, they had it made. Not to > mention that from then on they were a real "friend" of mine > . I'm not precisely sure what this means, but every one of the tapes that I have made for friends that I have folded into the ... fold ... by this means (the stereo) has been stolen by "friends" of theirs. USA invariably figures prominently. David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 01:35:16 -0700 From: Lewis Southers Subject: Re: The End is Nigh This is what pete said >Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 23:16:13 -0400 >From: pete >Subject: The End is Nigh > >So, I saw a review in the Independent for The ConstuKction of Light and >favourable it was not. In fact, the reviewer had quite a pop. The gist >was that Fripp's a fine guitarist and innovator, but KC is "turgid and >ponderous". Furthermore, the current effort "bears all the hallmarks of >redundant Seventies prog-rock" and is "the most unbearably solipsistic >music I have heard in years." > >Well, what do you expect from Andy Gill? What do expect from just about any critic. Crimson music isn't made to be digested at one or two settings. Crimson must be slowly savored and enjoyed, before it's true essence can be heard. >Here's the problem. I'm waiting here expectantly for the latest KC >masterpiece, but there seems to be so much negative vibe and hubris >around that I'm also doubting that it'll be worth the effort. > >Okay, so I've only caught snatches of COL online. Fripp's admirable >embrace of technology has left me a little behind. My PC is now three >years old and for a number of reasons I'm not going to update it for a >year or so. I've got a 33.6K modem and I'm fed up with trying to >download the latest release of whichever plug-in I need for whatever web >site. (I'll leave out my very long gripe about the Mexico City >download.) > >Those snatches of COL have disappointed me. In the four or five years >since Thrak - not the best KC release, but not the worst - music has >moved on, as I know Fripp, Trey Gunn and others have. KC has not. You've shut the door on a band as great as King Crimson based on hearing a few snippets of their new album over a 33.6k modem connection? Geez...give it a real chance. Hey the album might be horrible, but I'll make that determination after actually listening to the whole thing a few times. I've listened to it on the internet and that was neat and all, but I could hardly presume to get anything but a taste of what that album is about via such a crappy medium. >Conclusion: KC is redundant. At least the current incarnation is. It >is time Fripp laid the beast to rest and pursued new avenues. And, >avenues I am sure there are. Fripp's solo soundscapes have been left >aside. It's time for him to pick them up again moving to the future. I >don't what futures there are, but I'm sure they'll map themselves out. >And, there's a little life left in the fractals. That's pretty presumptuous and verging on turd-like, in my opinion. >Ah, but is it for me to say so? What Mr F does is for him to decide. I >am a mere audient. And not a very attentive one, at that. > >Meanwhile, Live in Central Park pops through the mail box. What better >evidence of the power, edge and restraint that KC had in it's best >moments. "Fracture" from that set is a particular example and there are Did you like the song "Fracture" the first time you heard it? I didn't. I love it now. It's funny how one's opinion changes about songs over repeated listenings. >countless others from each KC incarnation. Those dynamics seem to be >gone. Strange though because they were there from time to time in the Oh, you could hear dynamics on the Realaudio snippets you heard? Hmmm...must've had a better connection than I did. > >Don't get me wrong, I am not recommending that KC reunite for a farewell >tour playing the old "hits" - god forbid. Deep down, I am sure Fripp, I'm glad you're not, because that would be extremely arrogant. >who knows the KC beast so well, will recognize when the time is up. My >two penneth is that time IS up. Interesting to hear, from what little I Well, that WAS extremely arrogant. >did of the online chat (I kept losing the connection with my "ancient" >technology), that Fripp now feels that KC cannot go on without him. >Telling that. Whatever. >Anyway, I'm still waiting for the US release - yeah, sure I'll buy it. >But, I'm also not expecting much. Hopefully, the tour will be better. >I expect however that KC will play in god awful big venues in the US. Geez, lighten up. You just finished complaining about an unreleased album you barely heard and now you're bitching about the tour. The album isn't even out yet and you are bitching about the tour??? I personally would be happy to see Crimson in ANY venue possible though I would have my personal preferences. I know for a fact that out friends down under would do anything to see Fripp & Co. anywhere, anytime in Oz. Take a step back and get a grip, dude. >As an aside, a recent poster lamented the lack of REAL MUSIC today. >What do you mean by REAL MUSIC? There is plenty of great music out >there. Open your ears and take a few chances. Check out Built to >Spill's Live for one or the four experimental CDs by Sonic Youth. Also, Hey I'll agree with you there, Sonic Youth are one of my favorites. Goodbye twentieth century nearly sent me to the hospital. >just about anything on the Canadian Constellation label, US Matador, UK >Domino or German Kitty-yo. Better still, read me reviews at >http://connect.to/pete or http://members.xoom.com/mcclymontp I'll check out your reviews if you can promise me you actually heard the albums you reviewed! > >Pete McClymont >pjmcclym at erols dot com THAK, -Lewis= There's more to hearing than meets the ear. -Robert Fripp ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 08:57:21 +0000 From: Andreas Schoter Subject: TCoL reviews Dr John Sowerby wrote: >What basically do we expect from most reviewers? In the UK prog is still a >dirty word. Anything even remotely 'progressive' will be shit upon from a >great height. Hmmm... well, I do remember Thrak got "record of the week" in the Sunday Times record review section when it first came out, so "prog" isn't universally looked down upon... I'm waiting to see if they review TCoL this week. Andreas Dr Andreas Schoter Weft mailto:andreas at telinco dot co dot uk http://www.weft.telinco.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 10:40:36 +0100 From: "Steve Dinsdale" Subject: TCOL : I hate to bring up the subject of percussion, but.. .... aren't the Drums on TCOL absolutely horrible ? It may have worked in an improvised, exploratory context on the ProjeKCts, but when it comes to a structured studio set there is a large and gaping hole in the percussion dept that is plain for all to see . There is no heartbeat underlying the guitar figures, nothing to propel the music forwards, instead just thrashing around on dreadful sounding drum pads. A real disappointment when you contrast with the incredible `live' drum sounds on Thrak. Definitely a case of BB making his absence felt ! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 13:26:03 +0400 From: "GENNADI A. ORLOV" Subject: About CENTIPEDE - SEPTEMBER ENERGY Hello Dear Friends, I want to you to tell, that I know only 2 legal releases CENTIPEDE on CD: 1) Label - BLUEPRINT (UK) Number # 4543 Release date - April 18, 2000 2) Label - BGO (UK) -U.S. import Number# BGOCD485 Release Date - March 27, 2000 First CD, on my point of view, sounds better then second. The design for first too is better. Thank You Gennadi Orlov Moscow, RUSSIA ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 18:45:47 -0400 From: "Peter Sims" Subject: Various lyric meanings? Lately I've been trying to decipher some King Crimson lyrics, namely "Exiles","Cirkus" and the various lyrics of "Lizard." I have some ideas but I'm not quite sure. Has there ever been any official documentation, or are there any un-official, on what various KC songs' meanings are? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 12:21:25 +0000 From: "J. Robinson" Subject: forthcoming events Greatly enjoying 'Elephant Talk' . It's an excellent read, superbly put-together, with amazingly detailed discussions of Crimsonania. A suggestion: can forthcoming events or broadcasts about King Crimson or Robert Fripp be put on the website or newsletter, so we can watch out for them? For example, I didn't know about the BBC Radio 2 documentary on prog rock (which Nick Whittaker mentioned in his e-mail in Elephant Talk no. 667). It would have been useful to have advance warning of broadcasts of interest. A question: does anybody know of other newsletters on the web as good as 'Elephant Talk', that deal with bands like Genesis, Yes, ELP, Led Zep, Floyd, Sabbath, etc? Keep up the good work. Jeremy Robinson -- Jeremy Robinson P.O. Box 393, Maidstone, Kent, ME14 5XU, U.K. tel: 01622-729593 (UK) 01144-1622-729593 (US) 0044-1622-729593 (Europe) E-MAIL AND INTERNET E-mail: E-mail: Website: ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 17:21:18 +0200 From: Gnad Markus Subject: Damage Sorry for you all - but this is getting serious!!! I wish to get a copy of Sylvian/Fripps Damage. No web-shop I know offers this remarkable record. Does anybody know some? Or knows a shop where he can buy it for me? Please help me, it's becoming a pain! Thanks Markus Alexander Gnad PS E-mail me private if you like! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 13:05:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Art Cohen Subject: Summit Aaron wrote: > Perhaps I'm just off my rocker--but has anyone else noticed Fripp >playing a portion of what would become "Larks' Tongues in Aspic >Pt. I" towards the end of this track just a bit before the come back to >the "The Creator Has a Master Plan" head? That's definitely what it is; Wallace (I believe) even alludes to this in the liner notes. For a more obscure musical nugget, there's a jam on the Summit disc where Fripp briefly plays a descending pattern that's almost identical to a jam that the Grateful Dead frequently played starting (oddly) right around that same time (the earliest version I have is from April of 1972). The Dead's version is often referred to as "Mind Left Body" jam (or, on one official release, "Mud Love Buddy" jam). I had to rewind the Summit CD the first time I noticed it to make sure I hadn't hallucinated it. --Art ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 13:13:46 -0400 (EDT) From: flohansson at hockeymail dot com Subject: Re:TCoL-Review I would have never thought of saying this about a KC-release, but TCoL is kind of -well- boring. Most of the tracks lack structure and innovation. "Larks' IV" is the most disappointing. There's no tension building up. "FraKctured" is just a very bad and uninspired copy of "Fracture" (which is one of my absolute favorites!) "ProzaKc Blues" is quite good... funny and powerful. "Frying Pan" is not bad either. IMHO the title track and "Heaven & Earth" are the best tracks. But why, for god's sake, did they split up "TCoL" and "Larks' IV" in several "mini-tracks"??? Did they realise in the end that these tracks were way too long and thus cut them into pieces??? One more thing: Get rid of those damn electronic drums! Sometimes you only hear one kind of banging sound coming from PM's drums, with no subtlety, passion or innovation. (Yes, I do miss BB!) I've listened to the album four times now and I must admit that I like it better now than at the first time, but still I still consider it one of the weaker releases of my favorite band. I'm looking forward to the next album and hope it won't take up to 5 years again! flo ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 13:22:52 -0400 From: Pascal Subject: TCOL impressions... I would just like to quickly state my opinion on the new record. I disagree with the negative reviews that it seem to get so far: although it doesn't reinvent everything, there is still enough innovation to keep me more than interested (ProzaKc Blues, Into the Frying Pan). The instrumentals in general do sound like what was already done, but they are still a very rewarding listening experience. I like the way the R&D which was done in the Projekct turned into concise tunes (I'm thinking again of In The Frying Pan, this song got a real hook on me). That process (doing release for hardcore fans on smaller label, and then digesting them into something more appealing for the masses) reminded me of what Sonic Youth did with the release of SYR2 on their own label (as instrumental) VS major label (A Thousand Leaves, where vocal were added and song shortened)... Pascal ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 18:30:51 +0100 From: John Peacock Subject: Fernandes or gizmo? > Ignacio Gomez said: > > [I]n 1989, when I bought my e-bow, the guitar shop offered me an e-bow like > device (off the shelf, not custom made) that would go installed in the guitar. Ah, but was this a Gizmo, the device with spinning wheels that physically bowed the strings like a violin? It was developed by Godley and Creme in the 1970s (so there might have been a very very dusty one knocking around in 1989) and used on their own records (and some of the 10cc records as well, I think). In fact they did a bizarre triple album primarily to promote it. I'd love to get one of these deranged things, but they are probably, like all idiosyncratic equipment, wildy overpriced. John -- In the spirit of shameless self promotion, my songs may be found at: http://www.mp3.com/peacock "sell yourself, sell yourself, expect nothing" as a sage saith. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 13:45:36 -0400 From: "Christopher R. Merlo" Subject: HMV, Rand On 2000-05-11 17:14 +0000, Elephant Talk shared this: > Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 12:45:36 EDT > From: Hocow at aol dot com > Subject: North of the Border > > At the risk of starting an international incident. When I checked out > Adrian's interview on HMV I discovered it was a Canadian Chain Store (obvious > to you hosers up there, eh) and that they have TCOL NOW. I ordered it and > with shipping included it was $27 Canadian. At the exchange rate estimating Thank you thank you thank you! This was the best news I've gotten all day. By the way, to those of you that haven't checked out the HMV site yet, the link to the Adrian interview is right at the top of their main page. Props! Legitimacy! Could it be? (Just goes to show, I suppose, that the US is still behind in recognizing good music. O Canada, indeed.) --- > Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 21:58:36 EDT > From: "John Spokus" > Subject: Sustain, V-drums & Ayn Rand > > Last thing; let's save the Ayn Rand quotes for > the Rush people's forum. John Spokus You clearly have never been in a Rush people's forum. I'm sure other ex-NMSers will back me up when I say that the mere mention of the word "Rand" could ignite a week-long flame war. (In other words, thanks to Toby for your aggressive but fair moderation.) .....Christopher R. Merlo....................................... . cmerlo at acm dot org . . cmerlo at miracle dot burningblue dot net . .....http://miracle.burningblue.net............................. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 14:10:49 EDT From: Hocow at aol dot com Subject: Lost Piece and Electronic Drums Bill Cormier wrote:Robert replied in short order with a note that said (paraphrasing) "this appears to be an instrumental working idea/backing track for a Crimson song which never happened. It was probably dropped as not being sufficiently distinctive". So, there you have it! As for being "indistinctive", I personally thought it was a knockout piece, a classic "lost nugget" from the Discipline era band that would have fit perfectly on that album or "Beat". Sounds like a job for the Collectors Club to me. Stuff like this is what makes it worth buying 27 versions of Elephant Talk and Indiscipline (Love them both but fifteen takes were enough for me). Another post reviewing TCOL in ET 668 bemoaned the electronic drums. While I tend to agree, I think we'll need to learn to love them. Fripp has strong feelings about the stage mix that is possible only with the removal of acoustic drums. The musical and health advantages should be obvious. This was at least one of the reasons Bill Brufurd is on sabbatical if you are an optomist and an ex-member if you are a glass is half empty kind of guy. (Adrian expresses doubt that Bob and Bill will ever work together again in his recent interview on Canoe. While he expresses no opinion about whether or not this is good, in the past he has always appeared to be a supporter of Bill's inclusion when it was being debated so don't you turds go shooting the messenger). I just mentioned the Bruford thing as a reference to the electronic drum thing. Let's enjoy the performance of who's here instead of whining about who isn't. Brad Wilmot ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 20:21:44 -0700 From: "d.copley" Subject: The construkction of criticism I remember reading a quote from somewhere...It might have been in the booklet that came with "Young persons guide to...." that said something along the lines of "for every critic that loved KC there was another that loathed their very existence". Judging from the mixed reviews for TcoL in the press (and in ET), I guess this is still very true. Well, for what it's worth (probably not a lot, but oh well) here are my thoughts..... I personally think that the album is their best for a good few years. I have seen a few letters complaining about a lack of progress and development in the music, but I can't really see it? What can you say, its KC through and through. I can hear alot of Projekct influences, as well as reflections and influences from previous incarnations of the band. Is this a bad thing...I don't think so. Tracks like "The construkction of Light", and "Frakctured" would instantly feature on any "best of" compilation I made, ("Prozakc Blues" is coming along fast on the inside...) Okay, I've only had the album a couple of days, but it definitely has a very high "continuous play" factor, something that I found Thrak, for instance lacked, and all in all it probably feels the most "rounded" album KC have produced since "Red". Usually, it takes me quite a while ( in the case of "Discipline" and "Beat", something like 10 years) to think "Yes, classic KC", but TcoL has me hooked. I still think that KC's biggest problem is the tag "Progressive Rock band". It is used in such a derogatory way, and every review for TcoL that I've seen has kind of ran "King Crimson go modern....but why should a progressive band bother?" What is a progressive rock band? How the hell can KC be called a progressive rock band? Okay, ITCOTCK, yes, I can see that, but since then...... The press are so hung up on pigeoning music that they need to find a niche, and KC do not really fit into any slot. This causes most of what they do to be instantly dismissed...a shame, but since when has this bothered them? The kind of music KC play has never been aimed at mass appeal, thank God. You might not find the album as instantly impressive as I do, but give it a few plays before dismissing it....I mean "the band should split"? Bit drastic. Sorry to ramble on, but as you can tell, I'm impressed with the album :-) On a different note....anyone know anything about British tour dates? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 14:36:29 -0600 From: Matt McCaffree Subject: Texas/ProjeKct 3 Answer In response to Andy Acunzo: Not positive about the specifics of Projekct's 1, 2 or 4, but I can tell you about ProjeKct 3. Because Pat did so much splicing and mixing on the ProjeKct 3 "Masque" CD, it's difficult to pinpoint the exact origin of each piece. The whole thing is much like a big collage. Some of the music came from the 4 shows in Austin. Some came from the single show in Dallas. And I believe parts of it are even from some practice sessions held in Pat's garage. Anyway, the live material came from this pool of shows: Show #1: March 21, 1999 - Electric Lounge - Austin, TX Show #2: March 22, 1999 - Cactus Cafe - Austin, TX Show #3: March 23, 1999 - Cactus Cafe - Austin, TX Show #4: March 24, 1999 - Poor David's - Dallas, TX Show #5: March 25, 1999 - Antone's - Austin, TX I think the rest of the ProjeKcts material is pretty straight forward, live stuff. In fact, I'm sure there are plenty of ProjeKct show attendees out there who could give you detailed information about ProjeKcts 1,2 and 4. Hope that helps. . . at least partially. -Matt ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 14:36:10 -0500 (CDT) From: TheMincer at webtv dot net (Ric Wilson) Subject: Nashville Gigs, Where's The Feedback? Hello & Greetings fellow Crimson people...Unlike so many others, I did not get to attend these heavenly musical experiences (sobb...). I've been watching ET the past couple of editons for some reviews from the lucky ones that were in attendance. So, other than Robert & Adrian's Guitars, Where's the feeback? Please, just a crumb, a mere giblet of ecstatic pleasure! I Know It Was Great!!! C'mon!....Love you all...Ric. (Mincer) P.S. Not to be rude, but enough E-Bow stuff okay...Let's leave that to the Seattle scene...Thanx. http://community.webtv.net/TheMincer/TheStarlessAndBibleBlackPage/RicWilson. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 14:03:37 -0700 From: Brian Mafi Subject: E-Bow, "Definitive" Hello ETers', really, does this e-bow thing HAVE to continue? Don't you also read Roberts' Diary? >Dated May 6: >Response to ET: > Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 11:53:42 -0400 > From: Joseph Shelby > Subject: ebow <...other bands/artists that feature the ebow in action include Big >Country and David Bowie (its how the main guitar sound is generated in >"Heroes", both studio and most live versions i've seen...)> >"I have never used an e-bow professionally, and almost never otherwise. >Chris Stein (of Blondie) gave me one c.1978 when we were chums in NYC. But >"Heroes" was simply a Les Paul, Marshall cabinet and a way of working." I think this really answers this non-burning question. Unless, of course, you choose not to believe him. I was going to rant a touch about "Definitive" versions until I took a gander at the dictionary (I apologize if this has been covered in the FAQ): Definitive: 1.) precisely defining or outlining 2.) final; conclusive 3.) authoritative and complete. Now, let's move over to "Define" Define: 1.) to state the precise meaning of (a word) 2.) to describe the basic qualities of ... o.k that's enough! So, I guess "precisely defining" would be the most applicable version of "Definitive" in regards to KC re-masters. I just found it odd that a "definitive" version of a recording could be "re-defined". As technology changes, the recording can be "re-precisely defined" with newer, better technology. Of course, I was ASSuming #2 description of definitive was being used here. Oooohh... that Mr. Fripp and his wordplay! Curse him for making me think! I think he's an English teacher on his off hours (oh yeah, he doesn't appear to have any) Peace, Love, TCoL, Brian ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 21:59:58 -0500 From: "Antoine W. Caron" Subject: DS interview The David Singleton interview was the most interesting thing! As I was reading about his "frequency compression" method (to re-balance direct board recordings) I was thinking about the Central Park KCCC release: the sound is very good for an audience recording, but the drums are not loud enough. It turns out (as I read on...) that David did not work very much on "Central Park", his assistant did. Or perhaps, even the frequency band compression could not bring out the drums. Speaking of drums and drum sounds: I happen to like ConstruKction quite a lot, but the drum sounds...I don't know. Several people have mentioned a dislike for the Vdrums. Personally I think they can sound great. I loved them at a live ProjeKct 2 show (although played by Adrian). Also, I think Pat M's playing is superlative. It is the recording and the production of the drums on TCOL that don't work for me. Very dry, lots of gating and not much crisp and sizzle in the highs. A matter of taste. A very substantial record that TCOL. Lots to assimilate. A tormented construction of ultra virtuosity and trashing. It is going to take more than 3 or 4 plays to get intimate with it. So far, I kind of really like the music on it, but not so much the sound and production on it. It's all talk.. aWc Antoine W. Caron awcaron at total dot net antoine dot caron at nrc dot ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 23:07:03 -0400 From: pete Subject: Re: The End is Nigh replies As orginator of the thread, I think I'm entitled to come back. > Waiting for music with expectation will lead to disapointment. I can > understand Belew and Fripps irritation with ET with attitudes like this. So > you don't like the new KC material - well thats fine just walk away. Of > course with musicicans as talented and diverse as this its always worth > checking back once in a while but to claim that what you (or in fact anyone > else at all ) think should dictate a future path. The problem as you call > it is yours and only cos you make it one. > Okay, expectation can lead to disappointment. But, Mr Fripp has been guilty of raising expectations this time in empty audients like me through the online diary and that riduculous online interview. I understand the business end of things demands some puff for product, but the music should rule. Fripp has not , in the past, been afraid to tour new music before putting it to vinyl. Talent - sure. But, talent does not always equate with good music - eg Rick Wakeman. I'll always follow Fripp because he is still capable of excellent music. Two breathtaking soundscapes sessions in Philly back in '98 will live in my memory for a long time. My problem, and yep it's my problem, is that the new material is self-indulgent. directionless and muddy. Prozack Blues is surely some awful joke. That's my opinion and I'll stick to it and I think I can express that opinion in an open forum. > Music that is real (as opposed to product - made by producers and record > companies by manipulating "artists") is made by people who wish to make > music. It is driven by their inner desires. There is a lot of it about. > There is very little of it distributed because very little of it makes > money. > Yep. But, there's plenty of it distributed too. I suggest Pan American for prog-heads. > What basically do we expect from most reviewers? In the UK prog is still a > dirty word. Anything even remotely 'progressive' will be shit upon from a > great height. > Yep. But, I think it was the same reviewer who praised some of the ProjeKcts work (as did another scribe in the Sunday Times). I happen to share that opinion. Some of the ProjeKcts work was remarkable. I saw Fripp, Belew and Gunn in D.C. and thought they created fine textured, contemplative and interweaving music in the European free tradition though it was slightly marred by those awful v-drums. My point is/was that there is great music amongst the current KC members, but it ain't on this CD. Crimson should move on, as will my tastes in and appreciation of good music. Okay, that's it from me. Pete McClymont pjmcclym at erols dot com http://connect.to/pete http://members.xoom.com/mcclymontp ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #669 ********************************