Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #668 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 668 Thursday, 11 May 2000 Today's Topics: NEWS: ET Admin -- please read NEWS: King Crimson 'ConstruKtion of Light' World Premiere and Contest GIG BIZ: Nashville show times? - reply Re: TCoL - tour, distribution, almost FraKctured levin_/_listening_/_thank_you's The Article about Bruford Not to E-Bow North of the Border Interview with David Singleton (part one) King Crimson should split up because I don't like them.... RE: Projeckts/Crimson in Austin TCoL reviews the construKction of light KCCC10 gig circumstances Oh, stuff. You know. Sustainer or not? Nville crowd impact Tony Levin rehearsals Sustain, V-drums & Ayn Rand Re: Unrecorded 80`s Crim tune ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Thur, 11 May 2000 08:21:00 +0100 (BST) From: "Toby Howard" Subject: NEWS: ET Admin -- please read Folks, just a reminder. Posts to ET can only be accepted if: 1) They are sent to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com. Posts sent to any other addresses will quietly disappear and the poster won't be notified. 2) They have a informative Subject: line, not "RE: Elephant Talk #666" or similar. 3) They have some Fripp or KC-related content and don't ask questions answered in the ET FAQ at www.elephant-talk.com. 4) They are not offensive. You would be amazed (well, maybe not) how many people cannot get their heads around these few simple rules, and then get very upset about it! All I can do really is put my Smiley Hat on, and get on with it. Best wishes to all Cheers Toby ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 11:21:05 -0400 From: "Eric Barber" Subject: NEWS: King Crimson 'ConstruKtion of Light' World Premiere and Contest Just a message to let you know that 97X - WOXY in Cincinati will be broascasting the World Premiere of King Crimson's new CD The ConstruKtion Of Light this Tuesday in the 6pm hour. You can hear this broadcast worldwide through our Internet Broadcast found at woxy.com Just click on "listen" on the main page for the broadcast. You will need either a RealPlayer or Windows Media Player. Also, were giving King Crimson fans a chance to win a pair of tickets to the sold out show at the 12th and Porter in Nashville, TN on may 21st. This is the third and final show King Crimson is doing as a warm up for their European Tour, and the intimate setting of this 300 seat theater should make this a memorable performance. While we are not providing transportation to the event (how to get there is up to the winner), we are providing a night's stay at the Wyndam Hotel in Nashvlle the night of the show. This contest can be found at woxy.com with all the rules and details, and this is available only online, so you won't be competing with any "call-in" contestants. Eric Barber WOXY Promotions Manager ericb at woxy dot com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 19:46:52 PDT From: "Michel Champagne" Subject: GIG BIZ: Nashville show times? - reply According to the folks at 12th and Porter: There will be an opening act. show starts at 9:30 on Friday and Saturday, 9:00 on Sunday ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 09:18:06 CEST From: "Macahan The Unifaun" Subject: Re: TCoL - tour, distribution, almost FraKctured Hello Art and all! >Finally, Macahan wrote: > > >Frying pan instead of Heartbeat, ProzaKc Blues instead of > >21th Century Schizoid Man and even Larks IV instead of Starless > >I think you have the right attitude, and I wish I had some King Crimson >concerts in my immediate future to look forward to (too soon after a trip >to N.C. for me to make the trek to Nashville). But I just gotta ask... >have you been seeing a *lot* of versions of "Schizoid Man" and "Starless" >at recent KC concerts? :) Well, I wish. However I guess I'm born too late (79), and that I discovered KC too late... In fact, I just a had a cassette copy of Discipline until two years ago or so, when I found LTIA and realised even more that KC was a band in my taste. So, this is the first KC concert for me, and it will definitely be an evening to remember, whatever they play, as the magic is very much there, as much as in 69, 73 or 81, judging from the live recordings I've heard from these magic years and the later stuff, ProjeKcts, etc. Oh boy... So others found TCoL already the 5th. I have been in a lot of stores, who hadn't received it yesterday (9th), but hoped to have it today. And a few of the stores hadn't even ordered it, though they cover most of the "major" releases. It's sad to see that KC never seem to get the attention they deserve, except for maybe in specialised CD-stores. This Monday (8th), I had a little accident, and my right arm was almost FraKctured. It would have been kind of obsessive to go and break an arm just to salute the release of an album containing the track FraKctured, by your favourite band, though, wouldn't it :) /Macahan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 11:14:13 +0200 From: Gnad Markus Subject: levin_/_listening_/_thank_you's 1) Jon & Erwin told about Levin's diary. Only one note: Tony calls himself already a "FAN". How far can that go? 2) "Just a thought on those who are less than enthused with their first listen to TCoL. Over my many years of music listening I have made the following observation repeatedly: Those albums with which I am totally, completely, blown away at first listen tend to fade rapidly from my 'favorite's list'. On the other hand, albums which I find interesting, but which do not 'blow me away' on first go 'round have proven to be those that over time become long term favorites." Stated by Mark Stansbery Absolutely right! 3) Thanks to the numerous replies to my Bruford/Levin question, especially to "Blonik13". "I was just thinking about it." Markus Alexander Gnad ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 14:05:50 +0400 From: "GENNADI A. ORLOV" Subject: The Article about Bruford Dear Friends, This article from the large booklet - "PROFILES of INTERNATIONAL DRUMMERS PERCUSSIONISTS MUSICIANS PRESENTED BY P A I S T E CYMBALS GONG - 2". 'This book is dedicated to all our friends from music world, to the drummers and percussionists who went the road with us, to create a good "SOUND" and spread it around" "The texts in this book are based on information provided by the musicians themselves, and all quotations are authentic." Paiste Drummer Service CH - 6207 Notwil, Switzerland BILL BRUFORD Born May 17, 1949, son of a veterinary surgeon. At age 13, started tinkering on percussion. During his late school years, took tution from John Marshall, Lou Pacock (of the Royal Philarmonic) and George Cooper, the school's flute teacher. Turned professional in London, January 1, 1968, and by that summer was a founder member of "YES", with which group he stayed until summer 1972, by which time a move to "KING CRIMSON" was necessary. That group for a time included Jamie Muir "who taught me more about percussion than evryone else put together". "KING CRIMSON" disbanded in late 1974. For a while Bill played in a various bands, including "GONG". Then he joined the "ROY HARPER BAND". "I had been playing the odd PAISTE CYMBAL for some time, until I acquired a complete set. They are delightful and clean. PAISTE seem to offer the widest conceivable range of CYMBAL SOUNDS. Can I get any wider?" Discography: -YES Yes (Atlantic) - TIME AND A WORD Yes (Atlantic) - THE YES ALBUM Yes (Atlantic) - FRAGILE Yes (Atlantic) - CLOSE TO THE EDGE Yes (Atlantic) - THE AGE OF ATLANTIC (SAMPLER) Yes (Atlantic) - YESSONGS Yes (Atlantic) - LARKS' TONGUES IN ASPIC King Crimson (Island) - STARLESS AND BIBLE BLACK King Crimson (Islands) - RED King Crimson (Islands) CYMBALSET: ---------------- 15" Sound Edge H-H, 2002 16" Thin Crash, FO 602 8" Seven Sound Set No.1, FO 602 17" Heavy, FO 602 20" Medium Ride, FO 602 (Sizzless) 14" Tuned Gong 16" Tuned Gong 24" Tuned Gong EXTRAS: -------------------- 4" Children's Cymbals 6" Children's Cymbals 8" Children's Cymbals 2" Fingercymbals DRUMS ---------------- Ludwig/Hyman combination STICKS: ---------------- Ludwig "5A" Ludwig "5B" ------------------------- Thank You Gennadi Orlov Moscow, RUSSIA ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 16:19:30 +0100 From: chris dot smith at glass dot co dot uk Subject: Not to E-Bow With reference to everyone else's comments on this: Feedback isn't all that necessary to the old Fripp sound. What is required is a guitar with a lot of natural sustain (like a good Les Paul, funnily enough), a fuzz pedal with a fair bit of push like a Big Muff (although I think the Prince Rupert's Lament solo was through a Marshall pedal) and some technique: no blues-type string bending vibrato because that looses energy from the string's vibration. A better bet is to employ a modified version of a violinist's left hand, keeping at least two fingers on the string (the fretted note and the note below for example) and use hand movement along the direction of the string, rather than dragging the string across the fretboard. Watch any fiddle player - except my wife's grandfather, who plays the thing across his boot in the Irish traditional way. This kind of vibrato can add energy to the string rather than take away. Using this method I could get notes to sustain for a good twenty seconds, which is fine for most soloing. What you also get is the possibility of the note failing, or just 'drying up'; I wonder if it's this slightly organic quality that some people miss in Mr F's current sounds, some human-generated attack and decay. While being a lousy guitar player, I did notice that technique can have an awful lot of effect on the noises I made. This would explain why some guitarists need a dozen guitars on stage and they all seem to sound the same, and yet our Mr F could have one guitar and sound like a dozen. It's all too easy to get caught up in the arms race rather than concentrate on the end product. I'm not sure if any of this will really add to your listening pleasure. But there y'go. "Disclaimer: ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 12:45:36 EDT From: Hocow at aol dot com Subject: North of the Border At the risk of starting an international incident. When I checked out Adrian's interview on HMV I discovered it was a Canadian Chain Store (obvious to you hosers up there, eh) and that they have TCOL NOW. I ordered it and with shipping included it was $27 Canadian. At the exchange rate estimating from the price they listed for the cd alone I expect to be in it about $17 American and have it ten days sooner than my fellow Americans. Just an observation for anyone else who can't take the wait til the 23. Oh Canada............. Brad Wilmot ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 17:43:43 +0100 From: Toby Howard Subject: Interview with David Singleton (part one) We're very grateful to ET reader Lindsay Planer (lplaner at netrover dot com) for sending us an interview he recently conducted with David Singleton. Lindsay currently writes for Sneeker.com, Live! Music Review, and Mojo. Please do not redistribute this interview without Lindsay's permssion. -- Toby. LP: What has been your greatest challenge in reviving the tapes for the Collector's Club, and which release has been the most difficult to revive thus far? DS: The largest challenges are in unbalanced board recordings. In other words, where a mix appears to be poor in a board recording. You tend to end up with very loud vocals as well as drums, with not a lot of guitar and not enough bass. The result being that they don't sound very powerful or very exciting and they are a rather strange thing to listen to - which is in fact quite common when you listen to a board recording. The solution is something that I have spent a long time trying to acquire a unique set of skills - which are neither mastering or mixing - to overcome. Really, this is remixing from either a stereo or mono starting point, as opposed to having multiple tracks to choose from. The techniques which work for those tapes tend to be frequency compressors. So basically, you can go in by frequency range and compress the thing that was too loud, be it drums or vocals, and force or compress it back in the mix. This in effect brings everything else forward in the mix. Plus with the newer digital compressors you have complete control over the impact, decay, as well as the precise frequency band you are operating on. You can even make them compressed before the sound arrives. So, for example you can now take a snare drum and push it far enough back into the mix and forward feed the signal so that the compressor is anticipating it every time, before it even arrives. So these are specific skills that I have had to acquire over the past five years in rescuing various recordings. LP: Did this type of restoration begin with the "Epitaph" box? DS: Yes, that is where I began researching these methods most aggressively. The other two things I face are the fact that the sound on any given tape can fluctuate greatly. In fact there were some pieces of the "Epitaph," box that vary almost on a bar by bar basis. I'm sure you've heard the raw tapes where a passage will be very clear and then suddenly get really muddy. LP: Yes I have. Exactly why is that? DS: If it is an audience recording or an off-air open mike recording, most likely someone has walked in front of a microphone. Or the possibilities that over time a tape has become damaged. The Jacksonville '72 release suffered from chronic cassette tape distortion. The digital realm has also made it easy to mask that as well. For that problem we used CEDAR restoration and their various de-buzz, de-crackle and de-noise programs. That was perhaps the longest and best restoration, I think. LP: You did use a multi-track recording for the Summit Studios release didn't you? DS: Yes. That show and "Live On Broadway ," are obviously two of the better sounding club releases in the series thus far. As a matter of fact, "Live On Broadway," was a bit of a misfit as it was an multi-track ADAT which was mixed by Adrian Belew in preparation for being a mainstream release that never happened. It was, in effect, replaced by the "Live In Mexico City," download, as well as the songs from those shows which appeared on "Cirkus: A Young Persons' Guide To King Crimson." We felt Mexico City was a better represent of most of the same material. Plus, having the two side by side didn't make sense. So because "Live On Broadway," didn't end up as an official release, it became a Collector's Club set. So working backwards, "Broadway" was largest multi-track and "Live @ Summit Studios" was from an 8-track. All the other [Collector's Club releases] have been stereo or mono recordings on cassette and old open reels. LP: How about the upcoming releases? What are their sources and have they presented any special challenges? DS: The two consecutive shows - the '74 final show in Central Park and the Discipline Moles - are both cassette recordings. And to be honest, neither of those I worked on a great deal. They were ably handled by my assistant Alex Mundy. After that I am rather excited about the discovery of some tapes which augmented what we had in our library. So, the release after Moles will be the '69 Crimson performance in Hyde Park supporting the Rolling Stones. LP: How does the timing of this Hyde Park volume coincide with the new bootleg that has shown up on CD shelves and internet auction sites like e-bay? DS: Well, we didn't have a complete version of the show. So part of what we used was cleaned up from that same bootleg. This is also why we are releasing it so quickly now. I have compared the bootleg against what we were able to do. It's clearly night and day. If we waited too long then some of the more over zealous collectors might go out and buy the bootleg. We'd obviously rather they didn't, and in the long run they'll be ever so glad they waited. LP: Speaking of bootlegs, through the years I have obtained several different versions of the "Summit Studios" performance. One of which includes Robert deriding the live broadcast sponsor, Pepsi. Did you make a conscious effort to edit those comments out? DS: (laughing) You noticed! ... Ah, well ... oddly enough we didn't have them on the multi-track as it was only running during the actual musical performance. This is a common practice done during live recordings, generally to conserve tape. We had several discussions about re-inserting them. However, we already had concerns about being able to get all the music on the disc. In fact, we did have to edit it slightly to make it all fit. LP: What processes govern the deciding factors for potential Collector's Club releases? DS: It really tends to happen fairly organically. Robert, myself and Alex - whom I mentioned earlier and who did the actual physical tape archiving - tend to look ahead a few releases and determine which shows are relevant. This will inevitably spark ideas such as 'well we did the last '74 show, so let's then do the Moles show.' So, it becomes a wonderfully organic journey through the archives with no particular agenda. Plus, we get feedback from the members. Plus certain events, like the Hyde Park bootleg, will steer us in one direction or another. LP: Let's turn our attentions to upcoming releases. My first burning question here is will "Earthbound," and "USA," ever be released in their original incarnation on CD? DS: Yes. They are due to be completely remastered shortly. "USA," will also be remixed as well as remastered. Then at some point there will also be a mainstream '72 era set titled "Ladies Of The Road." Don't ask me for street dates, though. LP: What was your involvement in the new versions of the studio albums. DS: I was loosely involved and to be honest my involvement is becoming less and less frequent in the day-to-day production. My main role has been selecting the best source tapes. I did aid in the actual remasters of ITCOTCK. However, the game here is not so much in the remastering as it is a careful tape selection. LP: So what is different from what you are doing than what Tony Arnold did in the '80s. DS: The differences are really two-fold. First, the digital world has move forward by leaps and bounds. Secondly, I believe Tony was more interested in a remaster meaning a rebuilding or a changing of the sound. Whereas what we are now trying to do is find the ultimate source tape and faithfully reproduce what was originally there to begin with. LP: Did you go back to the multi-tracks? DS: No. But we did find production masters that had not been used since the albums were first mixed. LP: Are there any plans to reissue the original "Young Person's Guide To ..."? It has that great Judy Dyble vocal on "I Talk To The Wind." DS: Well, there is other material from those sessions, so you'll most likely see that as a Club release before it appears on a compilation. LP: Are there many pre-Crim tapes available for the club? DS: Yes we have a few. LP: Including Giles (x2) and Fripp? DS: Oh yes. In fact there are lots of little things floating around at our disposal. LP: Would you consider any of these shorter items as bonus material on Club releases? DS: Well, as in the case of the 1st Club release, we added "Trees." So, yes. LP: Have any of the Club releases been edited for content? DS: No, we use all we have. We had to edited some of "The Creator Has A Master Plan," from Summit Studios, but that was a time issue. Interesting though, since the Collector's Club is issued as a box set of three discs in Japan because DGM doesn't currently provide a mail order opportunity for those who live in Japan. This may soon change. But for now they do not. Anyway, part of the undertaking of the Club was that we wouldn't put the volumes out in exactly the same format anywhere else in the world. So, in keeping with that we have edited the Japanese releases for content. This is also due to the nature of the releases. In Japan, the Collector's Club box sets are in stores instead of mail order. So obviously it could go to a more mainstream enthusiast. So, when we edit for content we keep that in mind as well. LP: Now that you have nearly a dozen volumes under your belt, are all concerned parties pleased with the reception by Club members? DS: We are expecting the club to continue to grow. We deliberately haven't gone out to promote the Club. No advert campaigns or active marketing. Likewise, Crim haven't toured since the Club was founded. So, I suspect that with the upcoming tour and the sampler we have created, which features one cut from every release thus far, we will reach a large audience on the road. LP: Will there be any Collector's Club or other vintage video footage released? DS: There is precious little that we have so I doubt it. There are no complete shows. NEXT UP ... THE BIRTH OF BOOTLEG TELEVISION ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 20:19:19 +0100 From: "mark" Subject: King Crimson should split up because I don't like them.... or comments on ..... Subject: The End is Nigh > Here's the problem.... I'm waiting here expectantly for the latest KC > masterpiece, but there seems to be so much negative vibe and hubris [snip] > don't what futures there are, but I'm sure they'll map themselves out. > And, there's a little life left in the fractals. > Waiting for music with expectation will lead to disapointment. I can understand Belew and Fripps irritation with ET with attitudes like this. So you don't like the new KC material - well thats fine just walk away. Of course with musicicans as talented and diverse as this its always worth checking back once in a while but to claim that what you (or in fact anyone else at all ) think should dictate a future path. The problem as you call it is yours and only cos you make it one. > Ah, but is it for me to say so? What Mr F does is for him to decide. I > am a mere audient. Yup > Don't get me wrong, I am not recommending that KC reunite for a farewell > tour playing the old "hits" - god forbid. > As an aside, a recent poster lamented the lack of REAL MUSIC today. > What do you mean by REAL MUSIC? Music that is real (as opposed to product - made by producers and record companies by manipulating "artists") is made by people who wish to make music. It is driven by their inner desires. There is a lot of it about. There is very little of it distributed because very little of it makes money. Haven't had TCOL long enough to say anything accept its a great roaring monster of a thing - full of the kind of energy that powered Red or Nightwatch or some of the episodes of Mars. This is the third time I've listened to it and its been a different album every time... mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 16:04:05 -0400 From: Andy Acunzo Subject: RE: Projeckts/Crimson in Austin "Allen Giacomo Frater-Cote'" wrote: > I'm curious as to where the tracks on "Deception of the Thrush" were > recorded. I don't have this compilation because I bought The ProjeKcts box instead, but I was wondering the same thing. Does anyone know why they're so cryptic about these things on the new releases? The archival releases are attributed to specific shows, yet the new releases like Thrakattak, The Projekcts, and Live On Broadway don't have dates listed tor each track. Some of the stuff on The ProjeKcts can be pieced together by poring over the cryptic liner notes, but does anyone know why they don't just list the dates for each track in the booklets? Seems odd that releases from 20-30 years ago have more info than stuff from the '90s. Andy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 23:18:44 +0200 From: John Sowerby Subject: TCoL reviews >So, I saw a review in the Independent for The ConstuKction of Light and >favourable it was not. In fact, the reviewer had quite a pop. The gist >was that Fripp's a fine guitarist and innovator, but KC is "turgid and >ponderous". Furthermore, the current effort "bears all the hallmarks of >redundant Seventies prog-rock" and is "the most unbearably solipsistic >music I have heard in years." > >Well, what do you expect from Andy Gill? > What basically do we expect from most reviewers? In the UK prog is still a dirty word. Anything even remotely 'progressive' will be shit upon from a great height. John. Dr John Sowerby, (home) Bayerisches Geoinstitut, Parkstrasse 3, Universitaet Bayreuth, D - 95444 BAYREUTH, D - 95440 BAYREUTH, Germany. Germany. phone: (0)921 553717 phone: (0)921 5160437 e - mail: John dot Sowerby at uni-bayreuth dot de or: jrs at stones dot com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 00:35:28 +0200 From: Piotr Zlotkowski Subject: the construKction of light Dear ETers, Here are my first opinions after three days of listening to TCOL. The beginning is very promising: powerful and humorous ProzaKc Blues (although I do not share AB's opinion on ET - I believe that criticism is always allowed and natural); superb title track, not revelatory, but developing in the most intriguing way I could imagine (*these* lyrics are controversial, not I Have A Deam!); and great Frying Pan with a bit Beatles-esque vocals and melody... But after these excellent pieces boring and derivative part of the album begins. It's loud, chaotic and wearying for it contains no quiet moments. And very few new ideas. The Coda resembles Codas from Thrak, Larks IV resembles everything, but is poorer, FraKctured is a remake of one of the themes from good old Fracture - but what it was recorded for - I don't know. Crimson are very close to the auto-plagiarism here. Oyster Soup is one constant noise... King Crimson are not in the dead-end street. They're on the roundabout. But the way out does exist. "Heaven And Earth" shows that way, the fresh and innovative one. Peter -- PRZEWODNIK PO ZAPOMNIANYCH GRUPACH ROCKOWYCH: http://www.amwaw.edu.pl/~pzlotko ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 22:17:18 -0400 From: "baxlap" Subject: KCCC10 gig circumstances If I recall correctly, the show that makes up KCCC10 was part of the Schaefer (the one beer to have when you're inhaling a cheap six-pack of gastritis-inducing swill) Music Festival at Wollman Rink in Central Park. The Schaefer Music Festival was a series of shows in the Wollman Rink, in which roughly 8500 seats were laid down on the rink floor and tickets generally cost $3.50 and $2.50 per. One could, however, see shows for free from the rocks on the periphery of the rink. I seriously doubt that tickets for the KC CP show cost $8.50. In those days, one only paid $8.50 for a rock concert ticket under extraordinary circumstances. I saw the Who at Madison Square Garden in the month before the 7/1/74 KC date, and my ticket cost only $7.50 (just checked my crumpled old stub). When George Harrison toured later that year and charged $8.50 per ticket, that was big bucks for the time. When the Stones charged $12.50 the following year, people screamed bloody murder. Andrew Baxley ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 00:58:36 +0100 From: John Peacock Subject: Oh, stuff. You know. I would like to thank Bill Kent for the adventures of Fragg, which made me laugh out loud several time - a first for a list like this one. Furthermore: > Miguel Farah F.wondered: > > [S]houldn't we consider KC *now* as an american (or mostly american) band? I had wondered about that, looking at the sleeve of TCOL, yesterday. Don't suppose it matters, though. I think the album's amazing, by the way, like it tons more than I did Thrak when I got that, almost as much as I did Discipline, but it's all probably old news to you lot by now. I like the almost proprietorial feeling one gets, having read about it in the Fripp diaries from his initial attempts to gather the clans until the release. I particularly like the "ping pong" guitar playing, if you know what I mean. Maybe you don't. I care not. And the metallic ink is dead groovy. Supplies 100% of my RDA of difficult angular rock. And my copy has a track called 'I Have A Dream (coda)' on it, which I thought was supposed to be missing presumed lost (although I do have attention lapses). So Adrian won after all. Hurrah. > and Craig Griffith said: > > > And if you want to experience something not so eerie, replace "wondrous, > versatile superalloy" with "buggy, unstable operating system." Don't think Gates wouldn't want to try it. And having conducted clinical tests, I can definitively say that an e-bow is a far less antisocial way of achieving infinite sustain than feedback. And my neighbours won't talk to me any more. Hurrah. John -- In the spirit of shameless self promotion, my songs may be found at: http://www.mp3.com/peacock "sell yourself, sell yourself, expect nothing" as a sage saith. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 19:04:40 -0400 From: Ignacio Gomez Subject: Sustainer or not? While I can't deny the validity of the data regarding the Fernandes sustainer, I'd like to mention that in 1989, when I bought my e-bow, the guitar shop offered me an e-bow like device (off the shelf, not custom made) that would go installed in the guitar. While I don't remember the brand (I thought it was Fernandes, guess not), I remember the year, 1989, and the fact that this was in Madrid Spain, where we get guitar (and other type of) innovations much later than people in USA or UK (I assume most of you guys reside in the USA, like I do now). Some food for thought? Ig ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 21:03:15 -0400 From: "T.J. Mathews" Subject: Nville crowd impact At a time I can ill afford to be thinking about events that I will not be attending my brain has managed to involve itself a bit on what might happen in Nashville. If this is 5 to 600 (~ avg. 1.5 shows each) rabid fans around for 3 general admin. shows then how many there will be doing their utmost to freak on Robert? I think the multiple show phenom in a smaller city creates additional hazard along these lines. Hazard from questionable audients to musicians can have both positive and negative impact. For both of these participants and for perhaps future DGM release I hope for the first of these possibilities. Be calm. Listen. tj, dc-et2 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 20:52:08 CDT From: "Andrew Krein" Subject: Tony Levin rehearsals I've been listening/watching the Tony Levin rehearsals mentioned in the last ET. It's been very interestin. Very cool. They just did their version of Elephant Talk with Tony on lead vocals. Quite good actually. But very faithful to the original. I also heard a snippet of Red at the end of one of the more rocking songs. I'm gonna have to look harder for his new album. Andy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 21:58:36 EDT From: "John Spokus" Subject: Sustain, V-drums & Ayn Rand First on the reoccurring and now becoming boring contraversey about whether Fripp used an e-bow, and of course his current use of the Fernandes Sustainer; I would imagine on those 70's records in question that that sustain was achieved by playing through a tube amp, quite loudly and probably sitting fairly close to it as well. If I remember correctly, in most photos of Fripp in the 70's we see him playing through a Hi-Watt. Most current proggers I come in contact with seem to have lost the value of how important tube amps are in achieving a great guitar sound. Most guys I see are still stuck in that 80's vibe of the crappy solid state Roland Jazz Chorus supplemented with the ever present digital signal processor. It was not done like this in the good ole days my friends. I also wish that KC would drop the electronic drum thing. It's once again very 80's and dated. I think in the past decade that music making got a little more organic and back to it's roots and somehow these guys weren't listening. Remember the guys from Seattle who knocked Michael Jackson and wimpy synth pop off the planet back in the early 90's. I don't mind a little fill on electronic toms, but that's really as far as it should go. Last thing; let's save the Ayn Rand quotes for the Rush people's forum. John Spokus ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 19:26:23 -0400 From: Bill Cormier / Carol Henry Subject: Re: Unrecorded 80`s Crim tune OK fellow ETers, here are the facts on the "Mystery" Early `80`s unrecorded Crim tune there has been so much conjecture about. Although there was in fact an early version of "Neurotica" (at that time it was an instrumental called "Manhattan" )performed during the `81 and early `82 tours,this was not the piece in question. Nor was it the "Howler",also performed sans lyrics during the same time period. Having seen the Band perform the piece at a 2-2-82 Syracuse NY show,and after years of wondering why it had never popped up in recorded form, I finally contacted Robert Fripp about this curio. Well,lo and behold,he replied! Stating that he could not recall the tune in question, he urged me to send along the tape I had of the show so he could identify the piece. Over the years I actually had acumulated four different concerts in which they had performed this piece, and mailed them all to him. The shows in question all took place during the bands short Feb.20 to March 6 1982 tour in the US. Robert replied in short order with a note that said (paraphrasing) "this appears to be an instrumental working idea/backing track for a Crimson song which never happened. It was probably dropped as not being sufficiently distinctive". So, there you have it! As for being "indistinctive", I personally thought it was a knockout piece, a classic "lost nugget" from the Discipline era band that would have fit perfectly on that album or "Beat". For the completists out there, here are the shows I know of where this piece was performed (note;the "Howler" and "Manhattan" were also performed at these same shows) 1) 2-22-82-Ann Arbor, MI. 2) 2-25-82-Syracuse, NY. 3) 2-28-82-Stoneybrook, NY 4) 3-1-82-Amherst, Ma. They may have performed it elsewhere, but these are the four I have verified so far. Anyone else have any tips? I hope all this has been helpful. On a side note; I have been enjoying seeing the posts pertaining to the `81 Savoy shows, I also was in attendance. They had an energy level I have yet to feel again in all the years since. They would really make a great collectors club release if tapes exist. ---Bill Cormier ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #668 ********************************