Elephant Talk #667 (as text)

9 May 2000

Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 15:02:31 -0400
From: "Brenda Sypal" <brendas at radiowoodstock dot com>
Subject: NEWS: tony levin at radiowoodstock.com

Tony asked us to let you know about this:

Tony Levin will be rehearsing in our sound stage on May 9, 10, 11 and we will be webcasting and videocasting the rehearsal.

To steal the audio feed to have on your site, go to Radiowoodstock.co and click on Steal Our Feed. It will give you simple 2 step instructions about how to do that.

Also, you can say that if anyone wants to see the video, go to Radiowoodstock.com to the radiowoodstock tv channel.


Audio sound bites from the stage each day between 3 pm and 9 pm on the
Freeform channel.
Video from the sound stage  May 9       5 pm  9 pm
                    May 10  4 pm  9 pm
                    May 11  4 pm  9 pm

If you have any questions please feel free to contact me at brendas at radiowoodstock dot com


Brenda Sypal

Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 01:20:04 -0500
From: Jeff & Vonda McLeod <subversive at mindspring dot com>
Subject: GIG BIZ: Nashville show times?

Hi, all...

Does anyone know the start times of the Nashville dates? The Faison site has nothing. I felt lucky to even get a confirmation of my order! At first, the order didn't go through--and then I got an email confirmation after being asked to re-send all my info. With the tickets being will call and the venue being smaller than normal, I'm anxious to learn what time the doors will open. Any ideas?

[ Have you tried phoning the venue? Ancient technology I know, but... -- Toby ]

Also, I certainly hope that TCOL will be on sale at the shows! Doubtful, I know, I know...

Jeff McLeod

Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 16:05:47 +0604
From: Alain Proulx <alain dot proulx2 at tr dot cgocable dot ca>
Subject: American Tour

I asked a month ago when KC was supposed to tour in America. There is nothing mentionned about it. There is Europe in June and Japan in October, but where is America? I heard it could be after Japan. It looks far and nothing during summer?

If someone has solid information about it, please tell me. I'd like to know where in the plans are Montreal and Quebec.


Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 18:12:32 PDT
From: "alexis rondeau" <giantalex007 at hotmail dot com>
Subject: one string Warr guitar

Hello everybody!

I understand that Tony Levin got a one string Warr guitar while on tour with P4. I have been listening to West Coast Live and Live in San Francisco for a little while and I can't spot such a beast on any track. Does anyone know if it is featured anywhere on those two cd's. If not, I would have loved to hear that. If you were at one of those show, tell me what it sounded like! I wonder if Big Papa Bear is going to do something with the instrument in the futur.




Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 23:58:16 -0400
From: Gary Davis <artshop at artist-shop dot com>
Subject: Crimson related releases

Hi, folks:

The latest Artist Shop newsletter is out an you'll find it in its entirety at <http://www.artist-shop.com/news.htm>. Here are some excerpts for Elephant Talkers

We have a new member in The Artist Shop, David Cross and his new label,
Noisy Records <http://www.artist-shop.com/newlabel/index2.htm#cross>.  David
Cross came to prominence in 1972 when he, John Wetton, Bill Bruford and
Jamie Muir all responded to Robert Fripp's invitation to join his new
version of King Crimson.  Although all versions of the band have had their
strengths and received great respect from the fans, this particular version
of the band has gained a near mythic status over the years.  Although Cross
showed up occasionally on other recordings, such as with Clearlight
Symphony, to his record buying fans he seemed to disappear for quite a long
time.  However, Cross was keeping himself quite busy in the world of

A little more than a decade later, Cross decided it was time to return to
the world of recordings and released a number of albums on the Red Hot
Records label.  Cross's next album will find him composing with former King
Crimson lyricist, Richard W. Palmer-James, who wrote the lyrics for the
Crimson albums Cross appeared on!

David Cross/The Big Picture - The Big Picture is David Cross' first release
on his new label.   Originally released on Red Hot, this new reissue
contains a bonus track not available on the original.  The Big Picture runs
the gamut from beautifully delicate melodies to bone crunching progressive
metal and everthing in between.  It is reminiscent of the best of both King
Crimson (of course) and Pink Floyd.  A definite must for progressive fans!
soundbite - <http://www.artist-shop.com/newlabel/bigpic.ram>

On our Discipline page <http://www.artist-shop.com/discipln>, coming soon -
King Crimson/The ConstruKction of Light!  This is the brand new studio album
from King Crimson featuring Robert Fripp, Adrian Belew, Trey Gunn and Pat
Mastelotto.  What else is there to say?

Available Now!!!  California Guitar Trio/Rocks the West - The first official
live album from the California Guitar Trio.  Drawn from one of their
frequent US tours - this time on the West Coast, when they were joined on
several dates by legendary bassist Tony Levin and saxophonist Bill Janssen
(formerly of Adrian Belew and the Ga Ga's).  They deliver a heady brew of
well-known classics and contemporary material.  Everything from Beethoven's
Ninth Symphony to surf guitar classic Miserlou (of Pulp Fiction fame),
through to their version of Bohemian Rhapsody arranged for three acoustic
soundbite - <http://www.artist-shop.com/discipln/west.ram>

Jacob Heringman/Black Cow - This important new release by the highly
respected lute player, Jacob Heringman, is the first in a planned series for
DGM.  Consisting mainly of works by the great 16th Transylvanian lutenist
and composer, Valentin Bakfark, interspersed with Polish dances by his
Prussian contemporary, Matthaus Waissel.  Bakfark was one of the most
important lutenist-composers of his time and this pioneering new release is
a rare opportunity to hear his music after centuries of neglect.  Full of
variety, contrasting moods and breathtaking virtuosity, this CD shows that
lute music has the power to move a modern audience as much as it could a
renaissance one.

Available now on our Papabear Records page
<http://www.artist-shop.com/papabear>, Tony Levin/Waters of Eden.  "On this
album I've tried to combine the elements of some of my favorite kinds of
music - world and classical - with an appreciation of great instrumental
players and what they can add to the overall music.  Though the bass is
featured in my compositions, it's the music that has the focus, not just the
instrument.  The bass has a wonderful melodic ability in addition to its
low-down function.  It is an instrument that can touch us in the deepest
part of our body and emotions.  The music on Waters of Eden allows the bass
to soar above - the lead melodic role is also shared by some of my favorite
players.  That's what made the recording such a joy - hearing the California
Guitar Trio, pianist Warren Bernhardt, or bansuri flutist Steve Gorn lend
their talent to the compositions toook them to new heights." - Tony Levin

Also featured on this album are Larry "Synergy" Fast, Tony's brother
keyboardist Pete Levin, percussionist Jerry Marotta, guitarist Jerry Pevar,
keyboardist David Sancious, and guitar loopmeister David Torn.  A number of
tracks include the old Peter Gabriel rhythm section of Levin, Fast and
Marotta.  Tony plays Music Man fretless bass, NS electric upright and an
electric cello.
soundbite - <http://www.artist-shop.com/papabear/eden.ram>

Coming mid-May from Peter Hammill's Fie! Records
<http://www.artist-shop.com/fie>, Peter Hammill/None of the Above.  This is
Peter Hammill's latest album, a collection of songs recorded between January
1999 and February 2000.  Most of the vocals and instruments are performed
entirely by Peter with some contributions from percussionist Manny Elias,
violinist Stuart Gordon with Peter's daughters, Holly and Beatrice,
providing some soprano vocals.
soundbite - <http://www.artist-shop.com/fie/none.ram>

We have a brand new page for the Italian label, Materiali Sonori
<http://www.artist-shop.com/materiali>.  Nestled in their catalog is this
gem featuring Trey Gunn.  Percy Howard/Incidental Seductions - "Incidental
Seductions" is Howard's most personal, elaborate and hard-fought album to
date, and the songs are supported by the substantial talents of some of the
most creative and vibrant artists within the pantheon of modern music:
Vernon Reid, ex-Living Colour frontman on guitar, King Crimson
Warr-guitarist Trey Gunn, and faithful Charles Hayward on drums.  Two other
significant players on the recording are Steve Sullivan on ambient guitar
and John Ettinger on violin, both key figures in Howard's ongoing project
Nus. Also included are collaborations with Eraldo Bernocchi and the voice of
Seattle based poet and spoken word artist Kali LaVey, and the fundamental
presence of Bill Laswell. Laswell in fact has worked with Howard several
times in the past, producing Nus' albums "Inside is the Only Way Out " and
"All the Vertical Angel"s", and inviting Howard as guest artist (spoken
voice) in his recent release Hashisheen. This work is decidedly devoid of
much of the elements of rock or current manifestations of avant-garde
performance, which might be the expectation considering his preceding album,
but instead embrace the warmth and lyricism of traditional song-form wedded
to the bittersweet textures of dark ambiance and the contrapuntal and
harmonic possibilities of jazz. "Incidental Seductions" is intended to be a
soundpainting, a reverie that is intent upon illuminating the following of a
muse, and that motivator is eros, and philios.
soundbite - <http://www.artist-shop.com/materiali/seduce.ram>


                          Gary Davis
The Artist Shop                              The Other Road
http://www.artist-shop.com          artshop at artist-shop dot com
phone: 877-856-1158, 330-929-2056          fax:330-945-4923

Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 21:52:45 -0700
From: Raul Reyes <rbreyes at earthlink dot net>
Subject: California Guitar Trio w/Tony Levin

Hi crimson pals,I just recieved from DGM the new CD:Rocks the west from CGT featuring tony levin! LIVE! and its just ggggggreat!It even has tonys track Waters of Eden.A must have CD.I love this little gem check it out!Happy listening bye now R.Reyes.

Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 19:30:39 +1000
From: "greg forster" <figleeve at ozemail dot com>
Subject: Yet another (over-excited) open letter to Mr. Fripp.

Mr. Fripp's diary, 3rd May,2000: (Read and weep!). "We are also considering three dates in Australia later in the year."

I nearly ran through a plate-glass door as I whooped around the house doing high 5's with my two dumb-founded kids. My seven year-old had an inkling I should have been committed. The twelve year-old was sure of it, and had already begun dialling 000 (for ALL the emergency services - just to be sure). I soon settled down however, and explained that yes, dad was okay, and there was nothing to worry about - at least 'til later in the year.

Now I've already rung Ticketmaster (out local ticketting agent) five times (on the off chance I could book early), but the girl on th other end of the 'phone only responded with, "King who? We had the Queen and Prince Phillip touring recently, but as far as I know we weren't handling bookings for that." Silly girl.

All I can say is, to all you of little faith who said offering private accomodation at my mum's wouldn't work, is IT HAS!! Who could resist home cooking?

Now I've already booked in my Holden Gemini station-wagon for a full and comprehensive service (including a thorough vacuuming - it desperately needs it). I've also ordered a set of roof-racks from the local auto-spares shop, and am considering investing in a new car radio (one with FM as well as AM). I may even get one with a cassette player as well - although i doubt it, as i don't have any speakers.

I've worded up mum on the impending visit, and although a little suspicious as to my motivated reassurances, has agreed (in principal anyway, and with the threat of long term incarceration in the local Twilight Home id she reneges) to go stay at Spike's house in the U.S. - I think that should be far enough out of the way.

U've made a few overtures to Qantas to fix their landing gear and generators (in the light of recent hiccups they've had) and organised my brother to brush up on his sexual anecdotes (for the entertainment of the nearly arrived "troops"). You know, stick in a few gags here ad there - although they're pretty funny as they are.

All in all, I think I've got everything pretty well under control (except myself), and sit here in an ever widening pool of my own over-excited body fluids, awaiting Mr. Fripp's BIG ANNOUNCEMENT, and subsequent arrival.

I only hope Mr. Fripp didn't mean Austria.

Yours, Greg Forster.

Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 17:35:48 EDT
From: Bknt at aol dot com
Subject: Norbert Fragg: At the Centre for Simplistic Analysis

from the confidential minutes of the Ministry of Ridicule, Directorate of the Wholly Fool, Centre for Simplistic Analysis

Glammy Slick, Agent: Before you meet my client, I want to reiterate: no snide remarks about sexual orientation, Oscar Wilde or interior decor, or we walk.

Lord Muckabout: You identified your client's occupation as that of a good fairy.

Slick: He wishes to be referred to as an anthropromorphically positive sprite, Lucky Hump or the injured pratty.

Muckabout: How was he injured?

Slick: Fragg refused to credit my client's contributions to the repertoire and fabulous lack of mainstream success of Fragg and as his rollicking bog rock band, Swamp Dismal. For example, the Guitar Wonk Fraggalect, "We begin below par," that was my client's. About not taking compliments: my client had to talk him into that one, hold his hand, force him to fling the blunt shards of peevish petulance on those who would only love him.

Muckabout: Was your client compensated?

Slick: What's to compensate? My client also gave him the idea to design his entire concert tour so it won't make money. The tritely condescending architectural digest metaphor, all that basement-garden-penthouse-Room 101 jumbo mumbo, that was also my client's. The concept of plausible liabilityathat's where anything bad, stupid, fussy, embarrassing, deflating, depressing, insipid or merely twee is to be blamed on nasty record companies and oafish fans, let me tell ya, my client worked overtime on that, and has he had as much as a thank you? Zip. Zero. Zilch. Nada. Ada. Dada.

Muckabout: See here. Your client appears to have been a negative influence. A curse, as it were. John Coltrane lived a difficult life but he created music that was also powerfully uncommercial, and his only motivation was to bring happiness into the world. Because of your client, Fragg is spreading spiritual sourness and spiteful banter under the guise of bringing music into the world. The bloody cheek of informing those who grant the kindness of wishing him well to stay away from his performances! We at the Ministry of Ridicule went into emergency sessions with numerous foggy dons at All Souls to determine if someone so uncivil was worth our finely wrought irony and recherche repartee.

Slick: Permit me to remind you, your Lordship, but for a tidy bucket of ducats, my client is prepared to reveal several ludicrously insignificant details about Fragg, the true facts pertaining to the recording of The Reduction of Height, and if Mondrian Bayou really thinks E.T. is a turd, or if that was just another malicious Fraggish prank.

Muckabout: Before we determine if you shall assist in our latest round of Fragg bashing, we wish to determine the nature of your client's employment. We are under the impression that your client was terminated due to services below the call of duty. Something about escaping effluvia at an Argentine Guitar Wonk class. A performance of foul playing? A graduated cylinder of pong and circumstance?

Slick: My client is a fairy. He has no sex and he's strictly immaterial. For plumbing, you need a troll. Now, if you want to know the truth, my client bailed on Fragg because, ever since the new album got four-and-a-half scars from the critics he says he despises, Fragg's been insisting that passersby refuse to recognize him. Wears a T-shirt with "I am not the Fragg I was, but neither am I otherwise" printed on it and gets mad at Japanese girls who think he's asking if they'll sleep with him in French. Lately he's been speaking of himself in the third person while simultaneously claiming he's a figment of other people's perceptions. You want to know where all this is leading?

Muckabout: A duet with George Michael?

Slick: Norbert Fragg is going be to refuse to play his own band. At every concert, Swamp Dismal's going to come out and, while the other musicians are musicking, Fragg will sit on a stool in he dark, scowl at the audience and occasionally wave a CD that has his guitar parts on it. The idea is to be "in the music place but not be governed by the values of the music place."

Muckabout: Why that's the most perfectly ridiculous thing I've ever heard! My dear fellow, we have no need for specious sprites, but we are ever eager to employ those querulous few whose idealism has been so tarnished by malign neglect that they rely on misanthropic mysticism, parlous paradoxes and the occasional quantum physick to rationalize themselves out of existence! If Mr. Fragg should continue to revile his fans, deplore his gifts, miscast his past and resent his present, he will always have a future with us.

Bill Kent

Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 18:20:13 -0400
From: "Blake" <bnelson at information-integrity dot com>
Subject: Tony Levin / Bill Bruford & KC


Regading comments from T.Lev about "rejoining his band members..."

It is likely that Tony's rejoining Crimson will bring B. Bruford along as well. I base this on a [quick] conversation with BB during CD/Shirt signing subsequent to Earthworks performance at the Iron Horse in Amherst Massachusetts USA. This was during the time so much chatter was circulating about BB and TL being "out of Crimson". I asked Bill if he would be touring with Crimson for the upcoming year (why not go to those that know when the oportunity arises?)

To paraphrase Bill - "My good friend Tony Levin will be touring with Seal for the coming months and I'm really not too keen (his word) on playing in Crimson without Tony..." None of this was said harshly, just factually.

And Robert Fripp was correct when he stated in his diaries after seeing Earthworks at the time: [again paraphrased] "This is indeed the right thing for Bill to be doing at this point ..."

My impression was that Bill is enjoying his music right now, especially the music that he and Tony are able to create (be it B.L.U.E., Anderson, Bruford, Wakeman, and Howe (forget the ordering of names), or Crimson.) He's no in it for Crimson per se - as I believe R. Fripp is. He is in it for the music.


Blake Nelson, BACS, MSCS
President, Information Integrity, Inc.
bnelson at information-integrity dot com
36A Nason Street
Maynard, MA USA 01754
(978) 897-0801 voice
(978) 897-5125 fax

Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 18:28:37 -0400
From: Andy Acunzo <AACUNZO at mail dot chem dot sunysb dot edu>
Subject: RE: To Introduce KC To The Uninitiated...

flohansson at hockeymail dot com wrote:

> To open my friend's mind, I chose to show him the video tape of the
> KC-tour in Japan 1995. I thought that KC is even more impressing
> (to a "disbeliever") when one can actually "see" what they play,
> instead of just listening to some wild and uncommercial music.
> We stopped the tape after "THRAK" (which caused some REALLY bewildered
> expressions on the face of my buddy)

A friend (who's a fan) and I were watching that a few years ago while a few other people were in the room. One of them, after watching Fripp rip off some frenetic leads during the Thrak improv, said "Please tell me you're watching that in fast-forward." :)


Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 22:27:56 -0300
From: "Herman Ringer" <hermanringer at hotmail dot com>
Subject: Thankyou!

You know; I think that just for listening to prog music, is as if we were all already friends. In just 3 days of my posting (ET 665) my inbox was flooded with e-mails from all over the world of people encouraging me (and my band of course) to go on and edit our own records by ourselves. It's a tough task, but I think it's worthy. Suggestions will be gladly accepted.

Living here in Argentina, where prog fans are relatively few, it was exciting to receive such a response. As soon as we got something worthy, I'll put it on the Internet.

Thank you very much for the support,


P.S. About the Bruford issue; well just one guy got the point. Here's my explanation:

I never expected Bill Bruford to fly to Argentina, shake hands with me, tell me I'm the last hope for music, and offering me a recording contract with Discipline. But I thought that he might be able to give our demo a listen, and to tell us something about it. Maybe I was too utopical, but I think there is a difference in writing to Bill Bruford and writing to (let's say) Michael Jackson, if you know what I mean. I still think that Bill's the best, most creative and original drummer I ever heard; I even understand it, but I can't help to feel a bit of deception.

Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 18:48:15 -0400 (CLT)
From: "Miguel Farah F." <miguel at antonia dot webhost dot cl>
Subject: King Crimson an american band?

A piece of data just struck me (I knew it, but I have just understood its impication): we keep thinking of KC as an english band, yet...

IIRC, Trey Gunn is american. So is Belew. So is Mastelotto. Fripp is the only british member left.

So, shouldn't we consider KC *now* as an american (or mostly american) band?

(this is NOT intended to raise nationalist fights or chauvinist demonstrations, please).

From issue 666:

>Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 16:24:02 -0400 (EDT)
>From: stickman at arcticmail dot com
>Subject: Pricing/Capitalism - John Galt
>I am not condemning anybody's right to express that opinion, but given the
>way the US government has decided that Microsoft should be broken up
>because they make too much money (read successful in a free-market

No, kiddie. Microsoft is to be broken up because it has commited MANY abuses using his monopolic condition, which is illegal. This protects BOTH the customers AND the competing companies.

[ OK, nothing else along these lines, please. -- Toby ]

>P.S. Anybody ever read Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand?  If you want to
>experience something eerie, change the name Hank Rearden to Bill Gates and
>Rearden Metal to Microsoft.  It is kind of spooky - especially when you
>consider that the book was written in 1957.

Nothing new there. Abuse of monopolic conditions is as old as making fire.

MIGUEL FARAH              //   miguel at webhost dot cl
#include <disclaimer.h>   //   http://www.webhost.cl/~miguel
"Trust me - I know what I'm doing."
- Sledge Hammer

Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 20:40:43 -0500
From: "Buzz Fenner" <bfenner at bscn dot com>
Subject: For the Uninitiated

In Digest #665, Greg James wrote:

Having recently had the invitation to make a mix tape up for 2 open-minded friends of what I considered essential Crimson, I thought it would be fun to hear what songs other ET folk have used to proselytize the musical heathen

I've not had that particular pleasure of preparing tapes for the newbies, but I've initiated several people via the old stereo system. I always put on Neurotica; if they got past the percussion onslaught in the intro, they had it made. Not to mention that from then on they were a real "friend" of mine <grin>.

Buzz Fenner
bfenner at bscn dot com home
bfenner at jonesborocwl dot org work

Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 21:38:19 EDT
From: TingdzinKochu at cs dot com
Subject: Re: Elephant Talk #666

In a message dated 5/8/00 4:28:31 PM Central Daylight Time, Art Cohen <upsetter at shore dot net> writes to ET #666:

>> Here they were, playing in the park for (presumably)
>> whomever walked by and wondered what the rumpus was. No tickets bought, no
>> contracts (explicit or implicit) entered into, just some people enjoying
>> some music in the park on a summer's day.

Hi Art! Just to respectfully set the record straight. I was present in attendance for the Central Park show, and it was not a free event. We had to purchase tickets just like for any other concert event. I remember distinctly they were General Admission, the warmup band was Golden Earring, and the concert sponsor was Budweiser, King of Beers. FOr some reason, the figure $8.50 comes to mind, but don't quote me. Still, as you say, none of this prevented the some of us peoples from enjoying some music within the fence-enclosed confines of the Wollman Skating Rink on a summer's day!

Yours in the Crim,

John from Philadelphia <TingdzinKochu at cs dot com>

Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 22:45:23 -0400
From: C Gribbin <cgrib at erols dot com>
Subject: Central Park

Regarding this post on the Central Park show:

> Here they were, playing in the park for (presumably)
> whomever walked by and wondered what the rumpus was. No tickets
> bought, no contracts

The show was part of the Shafer Music Festival and was held in the old Wollman skating rink. There were tickets ... I think $2.00 or so for the bleachers and $3 for the rink floor ... and as I recall, it was sold out. You could see the show for free from the hill behind the rink, but let me assure you that the crowd was a bunch of Crimso maniacs and not idle passers-by. Golden Earring opened and was roundly booed and in fact pelted with beer cans during the high point of "Radar Love". The crowd was absolutely ravenous for Crimson and, despite being rowdy, drugged, somewhat drunk, etc., etc ... there was true passion and love for the music being played and the musicians that played it ... everyone was in a state of awe. Times were different and silent reverence at a show just didnt happen (at least not very often). Reagardless of where everyone came from, the profound effect that the music had on everyone that night was no illusion, it was a real, palpable presence that, I believe, will never be forgotten by anyone who was there.

This was not the only time that Crimson hit such heights during the tenure of the Larks' Tongues incarnation. The show earlier that year at the Felt Forum was a stronger experience for me. Everyone's experiences will vary.........


Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 20:49:01 -0600 (CST)
From: TIMOTHY GUEGUEN <ad058 at sfn dot saskatoon dot sk dot ca>
Subject: Re: ebow and quasi-ebow techniques

On Mon, 8 May 2000, Elephant Talk wrote:

> Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 18:42:28 -0400
> From: Ignacio Gomez <igomez at erols dot com>
> Subject: Re: ebow and quasi-ebow techniques
>  >>Fripp was of course the guitarist on the original version of "Heroes," and
>  >>I've never seen any evidence that he's ever used a Ebow. I've always
>  >>assumed the guitar sound came about simply thru Fripp's well known
>  >>excellent control of sustain and feedback, perhaps aided by processing from
>  >>Brian Eno's Synthi AKS. He didn't need an Ebow before that so I doubt he
>  >>used on then.
> Sorry to break this out to you like this, but "Fripp's well know excellent
> control of sustain and feedback" mainly comes from... surprise, surprise:
> a bit of help from a Fernandes sustainer installed in his Gibson guitar.

Not on "Heroes", or indeed anything before 1996(?) as Fernandes only began to sell its Sustainer unit in the mid 90s, and Fripp was supposedly still using his Tokai Les Paul copy during the recording of Thrak, unless he told a fibb to Guitar Player magazine in their 1995 interview with him. Most of Fripp's recorded work has simply been a combination of his Les Paul Custom and some sort of fuzz box.

While I'm at it I'll also note that some of the long sustained guitar lines on Fripp and Sylvian's live recording Damage may be Michael Brook, who uses his own infinite sustain device which he calls Infinite Guitar. His friend The Edge of U2 also has one of these.

tim gueguen 101867

Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 23:04:05 EDT
From: Ctao at aol dot com
Subject: More Elephant Logic and Disinfo

In 666, Ignacio Gomez posted:

>Sorry to break this out to you like this, but "Fripp's well know excellent
>control of sustain and feedback" mainly comes from... surprise, surprise:
>a bit of help from a Fernandes sustainer installed in his Gibson guitar.

Dripping with pomposity, and completely incorrect. Fripp stopped using Gibson gits many moons ago. As far as sustain/feedback, are you claiming he used the Fernandes before it had been invented? How do you explain his pre-90's tone?

>More tech stuff regarding e-bow sound: it can be emulated using a very
>simple device, the volume pedal/volume knob on your guitar.  You pluck
>the string(s) at volume 0 and then release the pedal to gain more volume
>gradually.  It takes more effort and coordination than the e-bow, but
>it is there and it's relatively easy.

This confusing statement leads me to wonder if you've spent much time with either an E-Bow or a "volume pedal/volume knob". The effects you describe are radically different from eitch other, physically and sonically.


Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 08:01:03 +0100
From: Toby Howard <toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk>
Subject: ET: outbound.667 ready to go
To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk

Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 23:12:12 EDT
From: Ctao at aol dot com
Subject: The Noive...

This is what Herman Ringer said

>time I was a young musician". Great thoughts. Just a month ago, I write to
>Bill, via his web-page, and they told me that Bill "doesn't currently have
>the 2 or 3 hours my record deserves". So what do he puts an address at all!
>I just wanted to have a brief commentary about it. It would be too
>pretensious to hope to get a recording contract. But just a few words of THE
>drummer would have been a blessing.

If you want a blessing, perhaps you should find a priest. Pestering a busy professional seems a tad on the narcissistic side (a shrink and a priest?).


Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 23:16:13 -0400
From: pete <pjmcclym at erols dot com>
Subject: The End is Nigh

So, I saw a review in the Independent for The ConstuKction of Light and favourable it was not. In fact, the reviewer had quite a pop. The gist was that Fripp's a fine guitarist and innovator, but KC is "turgid and ponderous". Furthermore, the current effort "bears all the hallmarks of redundant Seventies prog-rock" and is "the most unbearably solipsistic music I have heard in years."

Well, what do you expect from Andy Gill?

Here's the problem. I'm waiting here expectantly for the latest KC masterpiece, but there seems to be so much negative vibe and hubris around that I'm also doubting that it'll be worth the effort.

Okay, so I've only caught snatches of COL online. Fripp's admirable embrace of technology has left me a little behind. My PC is now three years old and for a number of reasons I'm not going to update it for a year or so. I've got a 33.6K modem and I'm fed up with trying to download the latest release of whichever plug-in I need for whatever web site. (I'll leave out my very long gripe about the Mexico City download.)

Those snatches of COL have disappointed me. In the four or five years since Thrak - not the best KC release, but not the worst - music has moved on, as I know Fripp, Trey Gunn and others have. KC has not.

Conclusion: KC is redundant. At least the current incarnation is. It is time Fripp laid the beast to rest and pursued new avenues. And, avenues I am sure there are. Fripp's solo soundscapes have been left aside. It's time for him to pick them up again moving to the future. I don't what futures there are, but I'm sure they'll map themselves out. And, there's a little life left in the fractals.

Ah, but is it for me to say so? What Mr F does is for him to decide. I am a mere audient.

Meanwhile, Live in Central Park pops through the mail box. What better evidence of the power, edge and restraint that KC had in it's best moments. "Fracture" from that set is a particular example and there are countless others from each KC incarnation. Those dynamics seem to be gone. Strange though because they were there from time to time in the ProjeKcts work if you forget the forgettable v-drums. You would have thought KC/ProjeKcts - no difference. And, there was magic in the Shepherd's Bush gigs in '96 (though not at the RAH in '95). But, we know that KC is a beast unto itself.

Don't get me wrong, I am not recommending that KC reunite for a farewell tour playing the old "hits" - god forbid. Deep down, I am sure Fripp, who knows the KC beast so well, will recognize when the time is up. My two penneth is that time IS up. Interesting to hear, from what little I did of the online chat (I kept losing the connection with my "ancient" technology), that Fripp now feels that KC cannot go on without him. Telling that.

Anyway, I'm still waiting for the US release - yeah, sure I'll buy it. But, I'm also not expecting much. Hopefully, the tour will be better. I expect however that KC will play in god awful big venues in the US.

As an aside, a recent poster lamented the lack of REAL MUSIC today. What do you mean by REAL MUSIC? There is plenty of great music out there. Open your ears and take a few chances. Check out Built to Spill's Live for one or the four experimental CDs by Sonic Youth. Also, just about anything on the Canadian Constellation label, US Matador, UK Domino or German Kitty-yo. Better still, read me reviews at http://connect.to/pete or http://members.xoom.com/mcclymontp

Pete McClymont
pjmcclym at erols dot com

Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 23:14:02 -0400
From: "Jeff McFadden" <jwmcfad at banet dot net>
Subject: re: not sure on the first listen?
>Those albums with which I am totally, completely, blown away at
>first listen  tend to fade rapidly from my 'favorite's list'. On the other
>hand, albums which I find interesting, but which do not 'blow
>me away' on first go 'round have proven to be those that over time
>become long term favorites.

I had that rather jarring experience with Red. I bought ItCotCK first and Red second. I did not quite know what to make of the substantial difference. (I think it was due in part to John Wetton's voice). I thought for a time I'd made a mistake buying Red, but I ended up playing it almost constantly. It's one of the few CDs in my collection that I can always put on when I'm in the mood for hearing something and can't make a decision. An "old standby," in other words. The same can be said for the mighty Lizard. A truly complex work. Crimson has so much complexity, beauty, depth, and intensity that most people I have exposed to them cannot "handle" it. That sounds horribly elitist, but perhaps not here!

>P.S. Anybody ever read Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand?

Oh please let's not get that stuff started here. Several mailing lists and newsgroups I've been involved with have been invaded and wrecked by admirers of Ayn Rand. Let's discuss Crimson instead. There is no one slipping in discussions of Marx, after all.

Jeff McFadden

Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 23:59:46 -0400
From: Craig Griffith <wgriffi at pop dot ma dot ultranet dot com>
Subject: Some replies
> Sorry to break this out to you like this, but "Fripp's well know excellent
> control of sustain and feedback" mainly comes from... surprise, surprise:
> a bit of help from a Fernandes sustainer installed in his Gibson guitar.

These days, yes, but "back in the day", such as when Heroes was cut, there was no such thing available, I believe. There certainly wasn't when performed his legendary sustains in the incarnations of KC from '69 to '74. One thing I have always wondered, though it might have been asked already, is whether or not the sustained notes in Prince Rupert's Lament are, in fact, a studio manipulation of his playing. It doesn't sound like an E-bow (which Fripp himself has confirmed that he never used professionally) or a Fernandes Sustainer pickup (unavailable at the time), but it certainly would be a wonder of technique to be able to perform such a feat. Anybody know?

> Yet one thing should not be forgotten: It's a sad circumstance that this is
> not a DGM record. This remarkable record is distributed by a Major, and it
> looks like that. No PJ Crook, no liner notes, no catalogue... it took time
> to realize what was wrong then I remembered. This fact is not easy to
> realize when you have been exclusively buying DGM outputs for almost a
> year.  Sorry for the Majors. Everything they do is wrong.

Nope, sorry for you for restricting your music buying to DGM releases if their much-touted business ethics were the only reason you did so. There's an entire world of music out there, and no matter how eclectic DGM can claim to be, it can't encompass all of it. As for the PJ Crook artwork, I based the absence of it on the fact that this is the first major release by King Crimson in six years. Her artwork works well with the archival releases and the ProjeKcts, but I can't see it being on a new KC studio album and really looking appropriate. My guess is that it was KC's idea, not Virgin's, to go with a different cover artist. As for your last statement, I agree that the major labels have done some incredibly wrong things over the years, and it does seem to be getting worse, but to say that everything they do is wrong is to convey an oversimplistic attitude about the music industry, in my opinion. It seems as oversimplistic to me as the attitude that if it's good, then it's got to be on a major label.

> P.S. Anybody ever read Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand?  If you want to
> experience something eerie, change the name Hank Rearden to Bill Gates and
> Rearden Metal to Microsoft.  It is kind of spooky - especially when you
> consider that the book was written in 1957.

And if you want to experience something not so eerie, replace "wondrous, versatile superalloy" with "buggy, unstable operating system."

-Craig Griffith

Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 06:18:17 +0100
From: Nigel Roberts <nigel dot roberts at essex dot police dot uk>
Subject: Sorry....more e-bow.

RF may well use a Fernandes sustainer now....but he would not have used one on "Heroes" because they weren't around at that time. From a musical perspective (I'm a guitarist) RF gets THAT sound with (as he states in his diary) nothing more than a Les Paul, a fuzz device and a modicum of volume. The last bit is the real trick. If the live on stage sound level is low then there would be no way to generate this sustain/feedback, so the Fernandes device may be used then, but for the fantastic sustain/feedback sounds really are (were?) part of RF's playing I would doubt that he uses anything else. Listen to the end part of Groon on Earthbound.....THAT is the sound. I know. I use it all the time in my own playing. More info on this is available....but this is not the place. Thanks, Nigel

Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 04:09:29 EDT
From: Sylsteph at aol dot com
Subject: Re: Centipede - Septober Energy

Dans un courrier date du 05/05/00 20:43:38 Heure d'ete Paris Madrid, et at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk a ecrit :

> I never knew about the existence of the Centipede - Septober Energy
>  recording until it was mentioned here 2 issues ago. Since the Lizard era is
>  one of my favorites and the reviews mention similarities with that album, I
>  have tried to buy it and have discovered there two versions of it, a 1 cd
>  version (CDNOW, CD UNIVERSE, AMAZON ) and a 2 cd version (THE ARTIST SHOP),
>  with the corresponding price difference as well. Then in the last issue
>  somebody mentions the quality of the cd is like if it had been made from a
>  good quality LP. Question: What is the difference between the 1 cd and the
>  2 cd version? Which sounds better?

The 1CD version is in fact a bootleg copy of the vinyl, but with some "edits" on each tracks. Now, it seems there are two 2CD versions of "Septober Energy" (complete) available !! One is on the What disc? label (apparently a Voiceprint under-label) and the other on RCA - BMG (if I remember well), with the american cover. Both of them seems to be of better quality, of course. This is a great album, but I think it would be interesting to have also a live album of Centipede, as this mega-group seems to work better in concert.

May be there is a tape of good enough quality somewhere...

Stephane Fougere

Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 20:21:04 +0100
From: "roger whittaker" <family at whittaker5 dot demon dot co dot uk>
Subject: Prog documentary on the radio

Hi everyone,

I thought some of you may be interested in this:

I was surprised that no-one mentioned it on ET actually, but a few weeks ago there was a documentary on BBC Radio 2 called 'Caped Crusaders'. It was a documentary about (mainly 1970s) prog-rock presented by self-confessed progger (and punker) Stuart Maconie. Obviously it was quite a mainstream production and it only really focussed on the 'Big Four' - if you will - of KC, Yes, Genesis and ELP (it briefly touched on Pink Floyd, The Nice, VDGG and Gentle Giant, and also oddities like Queen's 'Bohemian Rhapsody' etc.) Nevertheless, it still made quite interesting listening with lots of interviews and sections of music. On the KC front, there was quite a lot of an interview with Ian McDonald and extracts were played of 'Epitaph' and (the much underrated) 'Lark's Tongue In Aspic, Pt. 1' I taped it and if anyone is at all interested then do e-mail me.

Just a couple of other things before I go:

  1. On the (threatening to be overdone) subject of which KC songs to play mates in an attempt to convert them, I always find that 'Cat Food' goes down a treat. Needless to say, 99% of people that I have played the first album to (in particular tracks ' . . . Schizoid Man' and 'In The Court . . . ') have been completely blown away. I've also found that 'Starless' has gone down well, as have 'Neurotica', 'Sleepless', 'Lark's Tongue In Aspic, Pt. 2' (the live versions on 'Cirkus') and 'One More Red Nightmare' in particular.

  2. Finally, just for anyone who is yet to have purchased the 30th Anniversary Edition remasters I spotted them on the WH Smith website a couple of weeks ago at the cheeky little price of #8.99 (not including shipping). They are possibly/probably/likely to be sold out by now but still worth a mention I thought.

Thanks, bye,

Nick Whittaker.

Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 12:39:56 -0700
From: Philippe Toudic <PToudic at hopkinscarley dot com>
Subject: Turkish Tea

My two cents on the recent mentions of "Turkish Tea." I saw the Discipline tour on two consecutive nights in San Francisco, during which, as I recall, the band performed two "works in progress." The first would later become "Neurotica"; the instrumental "work in progress" version has been called "Manhattan." The encore to both of the late sets was a precursor to "Satori in Tangier" that featured Fripp's "Turkish Trumpet" synth guitar sound. My guess would be that this is the aforementioned "Turkish Tea."

- Phil T.

Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 17:09:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Aaron G. Moulin" <amoulin at brandeis dot edu>
Subject: Summit--and something else.

Perhaps I'm just off my rocker--but has anyone else noticed Fripp playing a portion of what would become "Larks' Tongues in Aspic Pt. I" towards the end of this track just a bit before the come back to the "The Creator Has a Master Plan" head?

Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 23:22:55 +0200
From: Mart dot Meyer at t-online dot de (Martin Meyer)
Subject: guitar techniques

Hello everybody,

there was an interesting discussion about RF's guitar techniques on ET. E-bowing and everything. As to e-bowing: it can make a note last forever and it can make it sound like a violin, because you don't have to plug the string to make it sound. But sounds like on 'Book Of Saturdays' were created by reverse playing. You turn the multitrack tape around in the recorder and play to the reversed song. You can easily prove this by recording the questioned passage with a sound editor program on your PC and then reverse ist by the corresponding option of the program. On 'Book Of Saturdays' you hear clearly a plain, clean guitar playing to to weird sounds of the reversed piece. Try it. It explains the strange phrasing of the solo. So much to this.

By the way: today I got me TCOL. Sounds very interesting. Some Passages are just beautiful. But listening seems sort of a stress to me. Anyway, I'm looking forward to the concert in Germany in June. RF is a must to every guitarist with a taste for the bizarre!


Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 14:40:19 -0700
From: "Allen Giacomo Frater-Cote'" <allenwrench at eudoramail dot com>
Subject: Projeckts/Crimson in Austin

I've only been subscribed to the newsletter for maybe a year, so perhaps this has already been discussed, but I'm curious as to where the tracks on "Deception of the Thrush" were recorded. Some of them have applause, talking, etc., in the middle, so they were (presumably) recorded live. I was in attendance at one of the precious few Projeckt Three shows, and I recognize some of the material, but I could be fooling myself with the power of suggestion. Anyway, I was just wondering which shows the material from Projeckt Three was recorded at so as to compare it with my own memories of that night. If you can help me out I'd appreciate it a lot. Thanks in advance.

In addition, I was wondering if there were any other Austin-area Crimsonites who would help me in petitioning to Fripp and company to bring their show through Texas. Having already played in Austin just last year, I'm sure they know of possible venues, and Austin has some of the best crowds I've ever been in attendance with. If I'm not mistaken, Pat Mastoletto is from Austin, and Trey Gunn is from nearby San Antonio (at least he was introduced at the Sunset Station stop on Eric Johnson's Vortexan tour as "San Antonio's own"), so it shouldn't be TOO difficult to persuade them to play here. Just thought I'd try.

Here's hoping,


Date: 09 May 2000 20:42:02 -0800
From: campbells at yorkinternet dot net
Subject: Fripp sustain and you.

Just a note on this whole EBow thing. During the time period that we're talking about (Bowie/Heroes and earlier) the Fernandes Sustainer didn't exist. True, he uses one now but that's a more recent development. While I don't know what he used on Heroes, I do know that his infamous sustain (ala USA's Exiles, second solo) was the combination of volume, distortion and Fripp.

RA Campbell
Campbell's Music Service

Date: Mon, 11 Feb 1980 00:12:42 -0500
From: Marc Rinfret <mrinfret at videotron dot ca>
Subject: TCoL aphorism, second view.

First view:

Second view:

Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 19:40:43 -0700
From: Steve Arnold <sarnold at rain dot org>
Subject: Re: Fripp book online...

Christopher Carl Heckman <checkman at math dot gatech dot edu> said

> For what it's worth, I have converted this file from Word to
> TeX, Donald Knuth's mathematical typesetting language. It is
> online in gzipped tape archive format (good for Unix), and it
> can be found at

Is there some reason why you didn't take the next step (ie, texi2html) and put it up on a GaTech webserver (or somewhere else)? Is there some reason why someone else couldn't do that?

Just curious, Steve

Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 23:27:02 -0700
From: Todd Crane <tcrane at scripps dot edu>
Subject: TCOL Top Ten

Inspired by KC News Network and David Letterman, I've devised a top ten list. Of course, this is strictly for a bit of fun. Any resemblance to actual statements is purely coincidence.

Top 10 things overheard during the recording of TCOL

10.  "Let's see Levin try this!" - Trey
9.  "ET Sucks" - Adrian
8.  "1-2-3-4-5-6-7-1-2-3-4-5-6-7-1-2-3-4-5-6-7..." -Pat
7.  "EG Sucks"- Robert
6.  "Strawberry fields forever" - Adrian
5.  "More memory!  I need more memory!" - Pat
4.  "Trey ol' chap, is that a camera?" - Robert
3.  "What the hell does Lark mean anyway?" - Trey
2.  "Dorset, oh sweet, dear Dorset." - Robert
And the number one thing overheard during the recording of TCOL
"Hey Robert, ConstruKct THIS!" - Adrian


Mike Stok