Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #665 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 665 Friday, 5 May 2000 Today's Topics: NEWS: Adrian Belew interview on HMV.com TLoC aphorism Unrecorded tracks The ConstruKction of Light Phish food for thought Belew's voice on ProzaKc Blues Live in Mexico city down load Re: ebow Re:ebows Centipede - Septober Energy To Introduce KC To The Uninitiated... Re: ConstruKction Thoughts Hi TOMMY!! ConstruKction of Light CC10: Central Park Ebows, etc. 666 thank you to Justin Weinberg & Jeff King Rimitti Revisited Bruford/Levin Mr Belew's voice on ProzaKc, end of thread Re: Lost Fripp release The "King Crimson in Spanish" website is ready !!!! New Crimson. Demo tapes ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 09:43:21 -0400 From: Barry Walsh Subject: NEWS: Adrian Belew interview on HMV.com Hello, Elephant Talk! Just thought I'd drop a line to let you know that in celebration of the release of ConstruKction of Light, HMV.com will be running an interview with Adrain Belew starting Tuesday, May 9 (the day of the record's release in Canada). Feel free to pass the word on to all the ETers out there! And, by the way, great site! Thanks! Barry Walsh Features Writer HMV.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Feb 1980 12:50:33 -0500 From: Marc Rinfret Subject: TLoC aphorism The light cause it's own shade. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 01:49:33 -0400 From: Andrew Karlin Subject: Unrecorded tracks Hi, all... Steve Smith wrote with regard to the the Robert Cervero "Unrecorded tracks" thread the following.... >From: Steve Smith >Subject: Re: Mute on stage >Rob, I think you pretty much nailed it regarding things played live that >never made it to CD, although there's at least one track on the '80s boot >'Indisciple Mining Rocks' that could have gone either way to these ears... >was it a rare improv from the '80s band, or was it a composition that never >found its way to disc? Think the "title" (according to the bootleggers) >was "Turkish Tea"... "Turkish Tea" has always seemed to me a working out of the pre-vocal themes of "Neil and Jack and Me". It's followed by the (nameless) track I call "Stonybrook". This is a jam loosely based on some preset patterns. I remember the Stonybrook U. show pretty well as I went to of all the New York area shows during that tour. I particularly remember a good show at the Rutgers Athletic Center (NJ) right before Stonybrook, followed by an outstanding show at Princeton in a medieval castle-like theater. The energy level was very high, and Adrian had us up and rocking! Robert continued to remain mostly in the background as he had since the 1981 relaunch. Remember all of this music came out in the context of the early-80's afro/tribal beat rage (see Talking Heads, Eno, et al). The title "Indisciple Mining Rocks" is a pun about how hard it was to get decent Krimson bootlegs (like "mining rocks"). The red cover portrays a jackhammer blasting into the Discipline knot logo, sucking off music into a portable tape recorder. This semi-official Warner Bros./EG release contained one of the first publishings I remember of Roberts' written opinions on bootlegging. If I may quote, "...if money is made by the sale of my work, then I wish to receive my share of it...to bring a recorder is a deliberate violation of the ground rules...I am seeking the quality of attention...the music mediates a relationship between the player and the listener...this relationship is very fragile and easily spoilt...For some players this presents no difficulties...but it does for me...how many times can one lose one's virginity?" My apologies to Robert for the unauthorized transcription and harsh boiling down of his article from Musician magazine. Mining Rocks concludes with a recording of the famous Fripp quip to a fan who yelled for him to play louder, "Perhaps you'd care to listen more attentively!" Regards, AK ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 11:30:28 +0100 From: "Ron Chrisley" Subject: The ConstruKction of Light > Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 19:17:17 -0500 > From: "Loren W. Claypool" > Subject: TCoL > > I read several posts to ET re: TCoL, most in the vein of disappointment. > I take a different view. Me too. > I played the Real Audio clips and captured them. I edited out the > transmission pauses, burned them to CD, and have been listening to the > tunes away from the computer for the last few days. (For those who may be > wondering, I will pick up the official CD the day of its release, break my > temp copy in half, and throw it away.) I did the same thing -- except I put it on a CDRW, so I don't have to break the CD when the album comes out... And I added Adrian's mp3 of I Have a Dream at the end. Here are my thoughts so far: It's better than Thrak -- I'm not a big fan of late KC songs, I prefer the instrumentals. So this album takes the instrumental goodness of the Projekcts and adds compositonal direction. Belew is continuing to play with the lyrical form. On Thrak, "People" played with a noun-noun/noun-verb ambiguity. On this album, "The World is My Oyster Soup Kitchen Floor Wax Museum" plays a word association game (I remember doing that as a youngster. My friend Howie and I gave up after "So sorry Charlie Rich Little Boy Wond-er-d it through the grape vine-yl confessions of a dying man on the Moon Unit Zappa"). Nevertheless (or therefore) I don't like it that much. The melody also has that boring bluesy interval with repetition like on Sex Sleep Eat Drink Dream, People, and Dinosaur. I haven't seen any mention here of the fact that the opener talks about this forum in uncomplimentary terms! Larks' IV seems to be more a rework of Red than of Larks' The Projekcts were definitely R&D for KC -- the opening theme on Into The Frying Pan was a standard element of several Projekct improvs. > Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 12:24:55 +0200 > From: Valerie Le Goff et Mickael Vedrine > Subject: "Belew's" voice in ProzaKc Blues - KC appearance > > Hi, ETers ! > In Et #662, Louis Sormany writes : > > > - "ProzaKc Blues" is very strange: never before, KC had > played blues. > > Belew's voice is very special! > > Indeed, and it couldn't be stranger, since it's not him who sings on > this song ! It seems like you've missed this information, Louis, but > during the recording of TCoL, Mr Fripp reported in his (always > informative and often entertaining) diary that a guest (I cannot > remember his name) was recording vocals for this song. I was a little > surprised to hear that it's in fact the vocals for the first song of the > album, but I feel this particular singer adds to the roughness of the > song. Well, I haven't read the diary either, and have no credits for the album, but the singer is definitely Adrian Belew. Try raising the pitch without changing the tempo (I used a stretch factor of 78% in Cool Edit) and you'll see what I mean. The phrasing and melody are all Belew's too. > Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 10:19:44 +0200 > From: Gnad Markus > Subject: col reviews / tamms book / pre-orders > > Hi there! > > I) I'm reading ET 662 early in the morning, CET. What comes to my mind (and > what came to my mind this night, "i had a dream") is only one thing: On May > 8th (plus/minus a few days) the new Krim will be released. Please - and > this goes out to the ET masters - avoid filling the next thirty ET numbers > with reviews and discussions about the new album. Please, please, please, > make ET posters add their opinions on the release pages and not on the > newspaper. I don't mind getting ET every day, but ET every day filled with > the same crap about the new album... how it is and what it is and what one > thinks about it... no, please not. Sorry. I think that is what this forum is for, more than anything else perhaps. Cheers, Ron Chrisley ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 09:13:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Justin Weinberg Subject: Phish food for thought From the A.V. Section of The Onion (May 3), a snippet of an interview with Phish's guitarist, Trey Anastasio: The Onion: So it seems like you're kind of separate from the group that's perceived as your fans. You don't seem like guys who would follow a band around. Trey Anastasio: No, I've never followed a band around. Well, maybe for short periods, like five shows. When I was in high school, I followed King Crimson around for a while, when they came through on the Discipline Tour, which just blew my mind. I didn't follow them around, but I went to New York and Philadelphia. I did the same thing with Talking Heads and different bands. I like to go to concerts and whatnot. But, no, I think we've all always been pretty hunkered down. But there are other aspects to our personalities that we share with the audience. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 18:49:13 +0200 From: Valerie Le Goff et Mickael Vedrine Subject: Belew's voice on ProzaKc Blues Hi ETers, In Et#663 I posted a comment about Louis Sormany's observation that Adrian Belew's voice was very strange in ProzaKc Blues. I truly and thought that it was in fact a guest, once evocated in Robert Fripp's (or was it Trey Gunn's) diary. And then, I may well have been wrong. I just received a message by another ET reader who thinks the voice is indeed Mr Belew's one, just modified with a computer effect. I ne happy to acknowledge my mistake, but I remain doubtful. So, could anyone help us to find out who's voice it finally is (private emails, please) ? Maybe someone who already owns a copy of the CD and can look at the booklet ? By the way, whoever sings it, I think this is a very powerful and surprising song. And one that should end the "Did Mr Fripp ever play the blues ?" thread. Mickael ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 11:18:55 PDT From: "Matt D" Subject: Live in Mexico city down load I was curious if this is still avalible in full download format. The Boot Leg TV site only offers the whole show in streaming audio. I just got my own computer and would love to have this. If anyone know where i can find it let me know. If not, could someone help me out and send me a copy? Matt Deibert Please respond directly to dibes at hotmail dot com not the newsletter Thanks ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 14:35:25 -0600 (CST) From: TIMOTHY GUEGUEN Subject: Re: ebow On Wed, 3 May 2000, Elephant Talk wrote: > Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 11:53:42 -0400 > From: Joseph Shelby > Subject: ebow > > other bands/artists that feature the ebow in action include > Big Country and David Bowie (its how the main guitar sound is > generated in "Heroes", both studio and most live versions i've seen...) Fripp was of course the guitarist on the original version of "Heroes," and I've never seen any evidence that he's ever used a Ebow. I've always assumed the guitar sound came about simply thru Fripp's well known excellent control of sustain and feedback, perhaps aided by processing from Brian Eno's Synthi AKS. He didn't need an Ebow before that so I doubt he used on then. tim gueguen 101867 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 16:40:44 -0400 From: John Ott Subject: Re:ebows > Subject: ebow > > other bands/artists that feature the ebow in action include > Big Country and David Bowie (its how the main guitar sound is > generated in "Heroes", both studio and most live versions i've seen...) > > Joe > That would be Mr. Fripp on "Heroes" with the ebow . Mick Ronson played a ebow on the song at the Freddie Mercury tribute. I saw the Wallflowers play it live but the guitarist did not use a ebow. He had a PRS hollow body and stood close the amp and used feedback. Ross Childress of Collective Soul is another frequent ebow user. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 13:51:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Alfred Bello Subject: Centipede - Septober Energy Hello Krimsonites! I never knew about the existence of the Centipede - Septober Energy recording until it was mentioned here 2 issues ago. Since the Lizard era is one of my favorites and the reviews mention similarities with that album, I have tried to buy it and have discovered there two versions of it, a 1 cd version (CDNOW, CD UNIVERSE, AMAZON ) and a 2 cd version (THE ARTIST SHOP), with the corresponding price difference as well. Then in the last issue somebody mentions the quality of the cd is like if it had been made from a good quality LP. Question: What is the difference between the 1 cd and the 2 cd version? Which sounds better? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 17:39:41 -0400 From: "GREG JONES" Subject: To Introduce KC To The Uninitiated... Having recently had the invitation to make a mix tape up for 2 open-minded friends of what I considered essential Crimson, I thought it would be fun to hear what songs other ET folk have used to proselytize the musical heathen and what sort of results, glorious or otherwise, they achieved. By the way, my tapes both included The Great Deceiver, Three Of A Perfect Pair, Indiscipline, Red, Dinosaur and Fallen Angel among others. Greg Jones ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 00:07:54 CEST From: "Macahan The Unifaun" Subject: Re: ConstruKction Thoughts Hello all! >I've just finished listening to The ConstruKction Of Light twice, and I >have to say that I think it's just amazing. Much, much better than I >could've even hoped for. To me, it's the perfect combination of Red-era, >80s-era and post-ProjeKct-er King Crimson. I can't wait to get the CD and >hear it in its true glory. > >I've read so much bad stuff on here about it that I am completely amazed. >What do you folks want? Christ, this recording is IT!!! What more could KC >have done? Are your ears stuffed with Elephant Turds??? My thought exactly. I was very impressed after the first listening, and have since come to enjoy Heaven and Earth, Frying pan (tCoL's most commercial song, to my ears - possible single release?), ProzaKc Blues, and Lark's IV very much. We are of course all allowed to have our differing opinions, but I agree upon that this album is a leap forward. Yes, it's in the spirit of past Crimsons, but it's NOT simply repeating old ideas, but rather mixing them with current ideas and producing an impressive result. In fact I was starting to fear that the Copenhagen concert I've bought tickets for would be boring and too much ProjeKctique, neglecting the pre-Vrooom Crimson. I can stand a few ProjeKct songs in a row, but after a while it gets too much, too dense for my tastes. However, after listening to tCoL, I am once again very happy I am going, even if they'll only play the latest stuff. Frying pan instead of Heartbeat, ProzaKc Blues instead of 21th Century Schizoid Man and even Larks IV instead of Starless is a substitution I have no objection against. I'm going not just to see a once great band, but a still creative and powerful one. Long live Crimson, they're still very much alive and kicking (if you ever doubted...). Doesn't Lark IV's fast, disted Frippertronics sound like a heavy metal solo, btw? Suits the song perfectly, though. /Macahan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 01:38:50 -0700 From: "Sandersen" Subject: Hi TOMMY!! 'Tommy' was the deaf dumb & blind kid from Pete Townshend's imagination. Yes, it's all about WHO(!!) No, not the band but the vocalist on the opening track on the new album?? A special guest?? It's Adrian pitched down to the 'unrecognizable'. Ehh......maybe it was Pete Townshend after all......or maybe even Tommy himself. I'm out!! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 16:52:08 -0700 (PDT) From: andres cruz Subject: ConstruKction of Light I have listened to the previews. Personally, I think it is a wonderful effort. People that found it not quite good, maybe will look back a couple of years from now, and say: "That's a great record" I guess when Discipline came out, the purists that were customed to listen the "old Crimson", experienced that. But remember guys, the actual music industry is way suffering from lack of Art, these days the choices for the REAL MUSIC fan are none. Let's receive with open arms when musicians with creativity and devotion put a project out. Let's enjoy the few master pieces that are coming out. This is like an oasis in the middle of the desert. Thumbs up for Fripp and Co.!!!! Cheers, Andy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 18:42:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Edgar Kausel Subject: CC10: Central Park Has anyone noted that at the beginning of "Easy Money"'s second verse ("well i argue...") there are two voices singing? Is that Cross maybe? Or Bruford? Is that a verification of an old fripper axiom (drum mikes record everything)? Edgar ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 20:05:21 PDT From: "Kevin Simonson" Subject: Ebows, etc. Howdy. From looking at the RFSQ video, the sudden "shift" to a "harmonic" is very likely a smooth transition from "guitar" sound to the GR300 synth tone, either an octave or a fifth up from the guitar tone. The Damage laserdisc also features footage of this. During the soundscapes portion of the performance (in RFSQ), RF uses the mix knob on his modifed Tokai les paul (with GR X0X guts installed--at one time there was a kit produced specifically for this purpose) to produce these sounds. The Damage, RFSQ, soundscapes and First Day releases all feature the 300. Later releases do not (to my knowledge). Since RF played the solo on the original "Heroes" recording, I would bet that there is no e-bow there, but it's a guess. I've never seen reference to RF using an e-bow. Just lots and lots of super-saturated guitar! Anyway, enough fanboy gearhead yakking, back to the fanboy dial-a-crim-lineup yakking. -Kevin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 11:30:28 +0400 From: "Iscander the Aquarius" Subject: 666 Hi everybody! Just wondering if you're all expecting ET#666 just as impatiently as I do :) And the techno-remix of ITCOTCK :))) Btw-has anybody heard VOIVOD's cover of "21st century schizoid man"? It's incredible,simply great...the song that had a potentially heavymetal riff finally got the heavymetal sound ! And they've played it very carefully,copying all the bends in Fripp's solo and all the improvs... I highly recommend it to anyone... A\\ www.iscander.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 11:28:31 +0200 From: Gnad Markus Subject: thank you to Justin Weinberg & Jeff King Hi there! These two made two great postings to Elephant Talk. Read them and think! It's so true. I wish Justin & Jeff would post their views also to the DGM guestbook. But as I replied (to Jeff): "But you know what happens - people read it, some post something about it, but a week later they forget and continue debating about cd prices and what an asshole Robert Fripp is because he doesn't write back." Remember! It's about music! Markus Alexander Gnad ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 10:28:49 +0100 From: "Harry Dowdell" Subject: Rimitti Revisited Sorry to open old threads but previous posts were never too clear on RF's playing on the Rimitti CDs. Cheika ("Crazy") Rimitti is an Algerian Rai singer well into her seventies. In 1993 Houri Talbi got her to interpret some songs he had written for her. The CD released was called Sidi Mansour (ABSOLCD 2) and has RF's unmistakable guitar & frippertronics on a number of tracks. A second CD called Cheika (ABSOLCD 5) was released made up of two further tracks from the Sidi Mansour sessions and two remixes of Rah Yabki from the first CD. The remixes are the best tracks but do not feature RF. I got this CD from HMV but it now appears to be unavailable, the Sidi Mansour CD never appeared on their lists and was found in the African/World music section of a shop in York. :) Harry Dowdell ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 13:32:12 +0200 From: Gnad Markus Subject: Bruford/Levin Once again, Hi there! For I am obviously a victim of too much information I forgot why Bruford & Levin aren't in the current incarnation of King Crimson. Can anybody tell me? [ Private email only please. Thanks -- Toby ] Thanks Markus Alexander Gnad ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 15:59:22 +0200 From: Valerie Le Goff et Mickael Vedrine Subject: Mr Belew's voice on ProzaKc, end of thread Hi Everyone, A few ETs ago I started a controversy about who sings on ProzaKc Blues. I thought it was a guest, referred by Mr Fripp in his diary. And I was wrong. Louis Sormani, Grant Colburn, Sean Hewitt, Matthew Nolan, who expressed their doubts about my statement, were right. I received today a message from Ken Latchney in which he kindly explained that the guest vocalist, Hooter Jones, was a joke during the recording sessions, and that the voice is indeed Adrian Belew's, modified with a pitch shifter. However, Hooter Jones is a great singer ;o) Mickael Vedrine ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 10:38:19 -0400 From: "Paul A. O'Rear" Subject: Re: Lost Fripp release >Can anyone tell me what happened to the Fripp release "Sunday all over the >world"? I can't seem to find any evidence of it's existence!! Any info would >be much appreciated! As a matter of fact this can be ordered from DGM's online shop. As Gary mentioned you can look it up under the artist name of "Sunday All Over The World". They're selling it for $12.50 +S&H. A steal. Paul Paul A. O'Rear Ph: 717.502.1906 WUGNET Sysop & Microsoft MVP Sageline Software | Helpful Solutions http://www.sageline.com | http://www.helpfulsolutions.com mailto:pao at sageline dot com | mailto:pao at helpfulsolutions dot com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 12:44:36 -0300 From: "KingCrimson En Espanol" Subject: The "King Crimson in Spanish" website is ready !!!! !Big News! Visit http://geocities.com/crimson_espanol/ The site is ready!! Cheers, Alejandro Cosentino crimson_espanol at hotmail dot com Buenos Aires, Argentina ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 12:39:48 -0400 From: "Brian O'Connell" Subject: New Crimson. I've been seeing some negative reviews on the list about the new disk. I've listened to the webring a few time and I love it. You have to give new Crimson a few passes before it starts to sink in. It was the same for me with Vroom and Thrak, and I'm sure for a lot of people when Discipline came out. The live Crim in 00' will be white hot searing intensity, I just know it. What else would you expect? I think that this is a very exciting and important disk. Just my two cents. PS- I would've liked to have seen "I had a Dream" on there, oh well. -Brian O'Connell ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 07:54:35 -0300 From: "Herman Ringer" Subject: Demo tapes Greetings from Buenos Aires! I have a band with a SABB lineup: I play violin, viola and keys, there's a guitarist, a bassist and a percussionist, and I've been searching many different personal web pages of former and present Crimson musicians, but I couldn't find anyone, who offers to listen to some demo tapes of new bands. We live in a world where a creative attitude means zero airplay, and recording companies search new versions of the same old pop formula. It would be a great thing to have someone to encourage this new bands, 'cos I hope we can enjoy of many years of Crimso, Genesis and Yes, but new bands should have also chances to develop themselves. Strange thing that in a interview, a ouple of years ago, Bill Bruford stated: "In the days i was a young musician, recording companies gave a band three records to see what happened, but today they give you three seconds, so you can't develop anything. I'm thankful of being a young musician in the time I was a young musician". Great thoughts. Just a month ago, I write to Bill, via his web-page, and they told me that Bill "doesn't currently have the 2 or 3 hours my record deserves". So what do he puts an address at all! I just wanted to have a brief commentary about it. It would be too pretensious to hope to get a recording contract. But just a few words of THE drummer would have been a blessing. I hope someone will ever listen to our material. They could be surprised! Herman ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #665 ********************************