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Subject: Elephant Talk #659


               E L E P H A N T    T A L K

        The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp
              and King Crimson enthusiasts

                        Number 659

                  Friday, 21 April 2000

Today's Topics:

   NEWS: CGT & T-Lev Webcast THIS SATURDAY NIGHT live from Boulder!

   Hyde Park '69
   G# mystery gtrs...both of them
   Re: Musicians
   Adrian Legg on G3
   Attacking culture is easier than tuning a Mellotron
   Re: G3 Blues
   Mute on stage
   Re:Fripp@G3
   remasters
   Just what did Bob mean when he said...
   Fripp @ G3
   CGT & 1973-period Genesis
   New Album, old ideas...
   CC#10
   Very Odd Time Signatures
   Re: CD prices
   G3 in Philadelphia

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Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 22:31:16 -0600
From: Jon Lybrook <jlybrook at indra dot com>
Subject: NEWS: CGT & T-Lev Webcast THIS SATURDAY NIGHT live from Boulder!

Just a final reminder before the Concert Event Webcast of the CGT
and Tony Levin from the Boulder Theater this Saturday, April 22nd
starting at 8:15 Pacific Time.

The Webcast is scheduled to be a bandwidth-friendly 20k stream using
either Windows Media Player OR RealPlayer.  You will also be able to
choose between an HTML or Java client.  No non-standard downloads
besides either of these players are required to take part in the
webcast!

The performance will be followed by a special program by KGNU Radio
on the history of Guitar Craft from its inception with Robert Fripp
and the League of Crafty Guitarists to the California Guitar Trio.
The program will be hosted by ETer Elaine Erb from KGNU and will include
a segment from Mark J., an also sometimes poster to ET.  The evening
will conclude with a live interview and a chance for on-line participants
to "talk" to the CGT, Tony, and Bill who will field questions and share
their thoughts on Guitar Craft, their current tour, and the release of
their new albums.

Now, here are the links you'll want to have handy:

Webcast link for the night of the performance:
http://events.worldstream.com/login/login.cfm?showtimeid=504518494

System Test - be sure to test ahead of time!:
http://events.worldstream.com/login/wizardfull.cfm

CGT Yamanashi News Page for late breaking info:
http://www.cgtrio.com/yamanews.htm

Also, for fabulous, complete, and Free MP3 and RealAudio tracks from
"Rocks the West" featuring Tony Levin, please visit the CGT Website
at http://www.cgtrio.com/rocks.htm.

Current tour schedule can be found at http://www.cgtrio.com/yamanews.htm.
If you're not able to see the CGT and Tony Levin perform in your town,
be sure to catch the webcast!

Best wishes,
Jon Lybrook
CGT Web

--
~^*~^*~^*^*~^*^~*~^~^*~^*~*^*~^*~^*~^
Webcast with the CGT and Tony Levin
Saturday, April 22, 2000 9:15PM MDT
   Live from Boulder, Colorado
More info at http://www.cgtrio.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 16:29:42 -0700
From: Robert Cervero <robertc at uclink4 dot berkeley dot edu>
Subject: Hyde Park '69

What is apparently the authentic 69 Hyde Park show is now in bootleg
circulation.  It must be Hyde Park, for after several listenings Ive
concluded its definitely not any of the other known 69 shows  its not
Plumpton, Chesterfield, Marquee Club, or Fillmore (East or West). [Over the
years a number of bogus copies of 69 Hyde Park have been out there that
are actually the Plumpton show].

Its an enjoyable listen, though short -- under 40 minutes.  The recording
quality is very good considering its 31 years old.  (I recall all the
whining about the recording quality of the 69 Marquee Club release  lets
remember, these historical gems come from an era of primitive hand-held
voice recorders.)  I was expecting more background noise given the size of
the crowd  purportedly, the audient-recorder was at front stage.  The
recordings somewhat marred by the editing out of banter between most songs
(sometimes a sign of a doctored-up, bogus bootleg, though I don't think
that's the case here -- too many unique touches to the show).  The
recording does capture Lake dedicating Epitaph to David and wishing him
happy birthday.  Im assuming this is David Enthoven, their manager of E&G
fame.  One way to authenticate this recording is to find out David
Enthovens birthday  on a lark, might anyone out there know whether its
June 5?

Heres the set list and my own reactions:
1. Schizoid Man  The tightest version Ive heard. Lakes phrasing stand
out.  Marred only
by some recording glitches.
2. In the Court  Notable for the original lyrics ... The Earth is captain
to the moon .....  Background vocals dominate, overly so.  Mellotrons in
fine form (its tuned).
3. Get Thy Bearings  McDonalds good instincts for free-form sax stand
out.  Giles also impresses.  Nice mid-stanza jam between Fripp and Lake.
4. Medley: Epitaph-Mantra-Travel Weary Capricorn.  Great musicianship
throughout. Nice transitions.  Well received by audience.
5. War.  The tron at its dark & menacing best -- I can only imagine how
pop tunes by the Stones must have gone over after this assault.

Please dont e-mail me for a copy of this show.  Fripp & Company now have
it, and I suspect itll be appearing as a Collectors Club release in due
time.

I wish I could say there are new surprises in the recording.  There really
arent.  Regardless, Ill take what I can get of the original
line-up.  This band marked a sea-change in contemporary music.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 22:13:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ken Makowsky <kimsky18 at yahoo dot com>
Subject: G# mystery gtrs...both of them

Howdy

I was lucky enogh to discover Fripps involvement in the G3 tour mentioned
in the last ET and got there early enough to enjoy his unadvertised set
when the tour hit Mpls.  The night I attended, Fripp was joined near the
end of his set by Mike Kineally, (I hope I spelled that right) who was
playing gtr and keys in Vai's band.  He stood in the shadows and added
quick flourishes to Fripps ambient washes.  It was really tastefully done.
Kineally, by the way, was part of Dweezil Zappas' band "Z", and a guitar
player columnist last I heard.  His chops are in the same league as Vai,
but he isn't rock star skinny/beautiful so he doesn't get the same kind of
attention. Too bad, really, because he's got chops and a sense of humour.

The "kid blues player" was Kenny Wayne Sheppard.  He does owe an awful lot
to Stevie Ray Vaughn.  My girlfriend and I left after the first song in his
set and went to get a beer.  Just not my thing.  To be honest, Vai and
Satch weren't really rocking my world either, but they were ok.  During the
closing jam Fripp was mixed down so low as to be practically inaudible.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 10:45:53 EDT
From: DanKirkd at aol dot com
Subject: Re: Musicians

In ET 658, "Rikala, Erik" <ERikala at pinacor dot com> writes:

> I was wondering if Elephant-Talk (or somewhere you may know of) could (or
>  does currently) help musicians into Crimso and prog music in general get
>  together by geographic location.  I think this would be an excellent
>  addition to your site (even if it were completely self-contained and merely
>  a link on the main Elephant-Talk site).  It's very difficult to find
>  musicians with the drive and creativity of most ET'ers and helpin us find
>  eachother would be invaluable.  The ads section is such a jumble of topics
>  a separate dedicated area would be a joy.

This is a good idea.  If someone wants to put together such a page/site we
can provide a prominent link at ET Web to it.  Local Chapters ETer groups
are always free to organize local pages we would link to that could support
this need too.

Dan
ET Web

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 11:19:03 -0400
From: Bob Pascarella <rPascarella at CramerProd dot com>
Subject: Adrian Legg on G3

After speaking with my friend, Philip (he's Mr. Vai's bass player) it was
reported that Adrian Legg was a pleasure to have on this "widdly wank
wonder world tour". It was also mentioned that his focus was primarily on
his internet connection and only partly on his connection to the other
guitarists.

RPascarella

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 11:30:45 -0400
From: Bob Pascarella <rPascarella at CramerProd dot com>
Subject: Attacking culture is easier than tuning a Mellotron

Having given the choice, I would think less time could be spent attacking
ALL cultures than the time required to tune a Mellotron.  There is an
interesting Mellotron up for sale on ebay.com for what seems to be a
reasonable bid amount at this time. It truly is the instrument you love to
love, but have to hate.

RPascarella

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 08:44:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Relph <relph at cthulhu dot engr dot sgi dot com>
Subject: Re: G3 Blues

When I saw the G3 show at the Concord Pavilion I was surprised when Fripp
came out during the "Blues Jam" with Steve Vai, Kenny Wayne Shepherd (sp?),
and Joe Satriani.  umrk at home dot com says that the song was "Red House".  Fripp
played a highly distorted "ugly" toned solo that was nonetheless
recognizably blues based.  That same night Mike Keneally had come out
during Robert's soundscapes and soloed over one of them.  Excellent.

        -- John

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 09:31:27 -0700
From: Robert Cervero <robertc at uclink4 dot berkeley dot edu>
Subject: Mute on stage

In response to the query: "Going over the entirety of KC's studio output,
are there any songs that have never been performed live?"

Based on what's out there on bootleg and circulating among tape traders,
these tunes have never been performed live:

Moonchild (from "In the Court")
In the Wake of Poseidon (from "Poseidon")
Prince Rupert Awakes, The Battle of Glass Tears, Big Top (from "Lizard")
Fallen Angel (from "Red" -- sidenote: short stanza played as part of jam at
the Zoom Club, Frankfurt,
         Oct. 13, 1972, the inaugural show of the
Wetton/Cross/Bruford/Muir/Fripp ensemble)
One More Red Nightmare (from "Red")

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 14:06:25 -0400
From: "Andrew Fignar Jr." <drew40 at mindspring dot com>
Subject: Re:Fripp@G3

>Any other folks catch a better performance at any of the other G3 gigs?

At Pine Knob in Michigan, Mike Keneally came out to "jam" with Robert.
Adding layers to the soundscapes. I thought it was fantastic. The crowd
started paying attention! Robert has since mentioned Mike at least twice
which leads me to believe he was very happy about Mike's accompaniment.
Mike told me a story that at this show Steve Vai walked by and was
surprised to see Mike out with Fripp, Stu Hamm was adding a little bass
texture too, and Steve took his bass and did a few bars of "Black Napkins"
or maybe it was "The Black Page", to see if Mike was paying attention. Mike
turned to see Vai smiling at him. I have not been able to pick this up,
maybe it was missed in the boot recording? So yes, I think these
performances with Mike were awesome, I sure would like to hear more! I
guess he did a few more.  On another subject Levin and CGT played live on
WDET? Did anybody catch that? I missed it, and would like some details,
please e-mail, I'll make it more than worth your while.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 13:42:23 PDT
From: "Bill Colrus" <billcolrus at hotmail dot com>
Subject: remasters

hi...
i have two questions:
1. will the jewel box editions of the latest kc remasters have the same
scrapbooks as the gatefold editions? I bought the gatefold in the court..
and didn't know if the new jewel box version of THAT had the scrapbook...
2. also, will the new jewel box editions COMPLETELY replace the 1989
definitive editions? i would think so, and, if so, i can calm down and wait
later to get those if i cant find the newest gatefolds...

any help would be appreciated...

-bill colrus

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 13:27:50 -0500
From: Rex dot W dot Fermier at ucm dot com
Subject: Just what did Bob mean when he said...

In the notes included with the Club 10 release (Live in Central Park), Bob
says that, "King Crimson 1973/4 was not a balanced group, or perhaps it was
balanced in disarray."

What does he mean, "balanced?"

Is it in terms of the contributions made by the musicians?
Is it in terms of skill and musicianship?
Pay inequalities?

How would someone identify this quality in a band?
How could you attain this quality?
And, given the power of the 1973/4 band, would you really need it?

Rex Fermier
> "This communication has fulfilled its purpose and will now be terminated."
===================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 16:43:31 -0400
From: leslabb at ptd dot net
Subject: Fripp @ G3

In ET 658 the following was written concerning RF's performance at G3

>Saw G3 in Montreal that year JUST for Fripp...the crowd, with a few
>exception (those clustered around the stage observing Fripp) were
>uninterested in the soundscapes and were looking (listeneing?) for some
>"wailin' gee-tarz" and were most unimpressed. A tough crowd and their
>disinterest seemed to show affect RF. There too, Fripp would set his
>"loops" and walk stage left to talk to the roadies and sip tea returning

I saw the G3 tour in Pittsburgh, at an outdoor ampitheater (IC Light
Ampitheater).  I had to literally drag my friends down early so that I
would not miss his performance.  Robert was already on stage when we
arrived.  He pretty much performed the same way as described above.  I
would not describe it as a disinterested performance, but more of a
creation of true background sounds.  I even remember a barge floating down
the river, tooting it's horn, and how it sounded blended with the wild
sounds coming from the PA system.

I really don't think Robert was expecting people to pay attention to his
performance, seeing as that he started before the gates even opened.  Think
of it as the music that plays over a PA system, before the opening and
takes the stage.

Les

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 18:17:29 EDT
From: MRKOC at aol dot com
Subject: CGT & 1973-period Genesis

In ET 658, Ted White responded to my impressions of T. Lev's new music:

>What struck me, especially in the CGT version of Tony's
>title track (which can also be heard on their new live album) was how much
>it reminded me of 1973-period Genesis.

Its funny, but I had the same thought as I stood listening to the new piece
at the Martyr's performance.  I was struck how much this reminded me of the
type of pleasent jamming Genesis did during the Foxtrot era.  Could be why
I like the CGT so much.  Or could just be their outstanding performances.

I may be reconsidering my opinion, since having purchased Rocks The West at
the show, I've had a few more opportunites to digest Tony's composition.
However, I have to disagree with Ted's inference regarding "the usual cute
set-pieces the CGT plays."  I find that they've managed to carve an
interesting musical niche, and they have peppered their performance with
guitar standards, classical pieces and orginal compositions that change
with each tour.  I especially enjoy Bert Lams' compostitions.

Later, Kevin

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 15:23:27 -0700
From: Todd Crane <tcrane at scripps dot edu>
Subject: New Album, old ideas...

Piotr Zlotkowski <pzlotko at amwaw dot edu dot pl> wrote:

"I also had an occasion to listen to the title track from the forthcoming
album. And in my opinion it's an unexpected reversion to the Discipline era
with some new ideas taken from the ProjeKcts and without any resemblance to
the music from Thrak. I wonder how the whole album will sound..."

While I have not heard the new album, Peter is likely right on target.  I
had a chance to watch a bit of the web interview with Fripp last night and
he mentioned that he "allowed" himself to use whatever technique/style was
necessary to create the music on TCoL, so there is a very good chance that
much of the album will reference KC days of old.  Fripp did mention that
when reforming in '81 he made the conscious effort to not look back on the
'70s and also in '94 he chose not to use same interlocking guitar ideas
that were used back in '81.  All in all, this interview was rather
interesting.  It's fun to watch Fripp answer the questions he thinks people
should ask, and not answer the ones they actually did ask.  I must admit
that this was the first time I've ever seen Fripp speak!  He is a
thoughtful and deliberate conversationalist.

Todd

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 18:37:47 -0400
From: Moses <moses42 at home dot com>
Subject: CC#10

Hello all,

        Finally broke down and joined the CC.  Sounds like I joined at the
right time.  This is amazing.  One question: Why does John Wetton always
sound out-of-breath after the solo section of 'Easy Money?'  Since I was 3
when this incarnation stopped touring, I unfortunately never saw them.  It
sounds like John Wetton's been running around during Fripp's solo, only to
arrive back at the mic just in time to do the scat singing part.  All of
the versions on TGD sound like that, plus the version of CC#10.  Is he just
breathless from Fripp's solo, or was there some amount of theatrics
happening?

Only half-serious,            ;-)
Moses

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 06:11:19 -0300
From: "yazbeck"<yazbeck at bol dot com dot br>
Subject: Very Odd Time Signatures

Hello ETs,
 Mr. Johnnyroman wrote:
 >"If any of you know of any electronic music with beats
 in odd time signatures, PLEASE LET ME KNOW."
  I don't know what kind of "eletronic music" he is
 searching for but, for instance, I wanted to write a
 couple of months ago when I got the ProjeKcts box-set, to
 comment of Mr. Mastelloto's drumming, mainly in "Masque"
 and it's resemblence with Zappa's synclavier drums in
 "Civilization Phase III". That is about the most odd time
 signatures I can figure out.
 Changing subjeKcts, is nice to find out about Mr. Fripp's
 reading interest in Freeman Dyson's books. Being a
 graduate student in Genetics make me read that kind of
 stuff.
 Tchau.
 Gabriel Yazbeck, Brazil.
 P.S. Interesting idea in "unusual idea for KCCC", althoug
 I am not (yet) a member.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 06:52:05 -0700
From: "Mike" <bigeberg at email dot msn dot com>
Subject: Re: CD prices

>... I bought Salad Days at my local cd rip off merchant...I
>mean store (is it me or did cd prices take another jump up recently
>
>First of all, regarding CD prices -- no it isn't just you, I've noticed a
>recent jump in prices, too.  I'm quickly moving to a policy of buying CDs
>only on sale (unless they are Crimson-related, of course!)  But here's a
>thought as to why -- just a guess, mind you -- isn't plastic a petroleum
>product?  What has happened to gas/oil prices lately?  The question is, are
>CD manufacturers passing on a real cost increase to the customer, or is the
>present jump in fuel prices only providing these manufacturers with an
>excuse to bilk the customer?<p

It costs less than $0.68 to make a CD, this includes the "jewel box" and
inserts. This price is based upon a limited run of 5000, it likely costs
MUCH less for major label runs of multi-million sellers like Santana, N Sync
etc. However, before you blame your "local CD rip off merchant", we (CD
retailers) usually PAY $11-$14 for CDs we sell for $14-$17. The LIST price
(manufacters suggested retail price) from the major labels has leapt
drastically in the past few months, CDs that listed for $11.98 last month
are now listing for as much as $17.98 and new "Hot" releases are listing for
as much as $19.98 for a single CD! Cassettes now list for as much as $12.98
for a single tape! A $3.00 cost increase to the retailer (and
subsequently,the consumer) based on a $0.02 increase in the pertoleum cost
of a CD? You do the math. Corporate greed, (im)pure and simple.

This is also why I have balked at purchacing the Collecters Club releases.
Sure, they are producing a far smaller production run of them, but I'm sure
that the end cost including artwork etc. is less than $2.00/CD. SInce there
are no promotional costs (no ads in Billboard etc) and is self distributed,
I have trouble accepting the +$20.00/disc cost asked. Now, to be fair, I DO
appreciate the fact that the artist (RF/KC) is getting the bulk of the
profit and that the cost is NOT going to the "middle-man", ownership stays
with the artist and NOT the "Corporation" and so on. I also understand that
bootlegs often run $20-$40/CD, making the KCCC releases competativly priced.
One could also argue that I am not taking into consideration
finding/purchacing (older) source tapes, remixing and editing time etc. but
re: recent live releases (both Discipline and KCCC) I have been unimpressed
with the mix and editing: cold endings at the end of discs instead of the
traditional  (and IMHO less jarring) fade out, questionable sonics on RECENT
recording (in fact I have heard better sounding BOOTLEGS of the Thrak tour
than the legit Thrak Attack release) aand so on leads me to believe that
there is minimal attention paid to the mastering of these tapes, therefore
less need to pay for it.

What's it all mean?

 Record labels WILL charge as much as the market will bear, that's basic
economics. As long as we, the buying public accept (and pay) $20 for a CD we
will be charged that much (and before long, more).  I for one refuse to pay
full price for most CDs and usually wait for used copies to surface in local
stores (there are exceptions).  I'm sure European readers will laugh at my
whining about the "high" US prices when you are paying almost double our
prices for music but the economics are tha same...GREED.

Just my seventy-five cents...what do you think?

655321

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 11:12:52 -0400
From: "Hickson, Robert [PRI]" <RHICKSON at prius dot jnj dot com>
Subject: G3 in Philadelphia

I caught G3 in Phili...I went only for the Fripp Soundscapes, but of course
stayed through the end.  I knew that they were doing the "all-star jam"
with "My Guitar Wants To Kill Your Mama".  Fripp came out to lurk in the
shadows for the jam (I had to immediately race to the stage-left side of
the venue to see him).  Fripp attempted to play, but apparently there was
some type of problem and he was not in the mix.  He put up his hands to
signal "no sound...oh, well nothing I can do" (yep, all that in one
gesture).  Fripp then demonstrated to me the role of a good audient - he
stepped to stage-right and listened to the others play.  At the conclusion
Fripp applauded his comrades enthusiastically.

At that G3 show I was particularly struck by the awesome Vai set and
immediately became a big Mike Kenneally fan.  At one point I thought I had
heard about a possible release of sounscape material featuring Kenneally...

Bert.

------------------------------

End of Elephant Talk Digest #659
********************************