Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #656 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 656 Monday, 17 April 2000 Today's Topics: Islands Waters of Eden? Belew, CD prices, unusual idea for KCCC Earthbound/gatefolds or jb/TGD price Re: Guitar on "Prince Rupert" & "Book of Saturdays" Re: Oxford Poly 1982 / Great Deceiver Packaging Comparing musicians. Re: Nobody knows the answer to that trivia question? Re: Nobody Knows the Answer . . .? Pt. II 1-4-5 Frippery Blues attack on culture CGT w/ T Lev Re: Witless commentary ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 21:10:21 EDT From: NotoriousAWOL at aol dot com Subject: Islands I bought my 24 bit "Islands" today. Clicked right on to "The Sailor's Tale"as a lot of us did, I'm sure. What a piece. Pure Crimson. When I first heard it all those years ago, Fripp's guitar figure crawling meanacingly under Mel's Soprano sax really had me. And then the slow tempo solo with that rattling guitar . What a unique voice this man has. Then to "Islands" itself, and I gotta tell ya, That is one beautiful and spiritually uplifting piece of music. I still have the Rolling Stone review's words memorized they hurt so much. The last line: "The last album to put on before you retire." I wonder where that guy is now. The remastering is awesome. The packaging beautiful. There's a certain comfortable nostalgia to it.And a little nostalgia now and again doesn't have to be a bad thing! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 22:02:10 -0500 From: Jordan Subject: Waters of Eden? So has anyone heard the new T Lev? Comments? Amazingly it was in local stores on the day of release...I know that was the plan when he signed with Narada, but I just didn't believe it somehow. :> Didn't have enough cash though. Also, I unfortunately was not able to go to the opening night of the door in Milwaukee (a mere hour and a half away), but I heard it was fantastic. Not only the show, but the surprise encore when they did a version of Elephant Talk with, for the very first time, Tony on vocals. --Jordan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 00:25:01 -0400 From: David Vella Subject: Belew, CD prices, unusual idea for KCCC [ Please, posters, don't use HTML formatting in your posts, as below. You can see we can't handle it. Cheer -- Toby ] Greetings Pachyderm Banterers,

A couple of articulate announcements I've been meaning to make:

First, old business, To Todd, who wrote a few issues back:

Okay, I admit it. I don't really know much about Belew's solo output. Frankly, if it were not for his work in Crimson I would never of heard of the guy. However, I bought Salad Days at my local cd rip off merchant...I mean store (is it me or did cd prices take another jump up recently?!) and have become quite fond of this collection. ....... Sooooo, this brings me to the obvious question. Now that I've got this collection, where should I head next?

First of all, regarding CD prices -- no it isn't just you, I've noticed a recent jump in prices, too. I'm quickly moving to a policy of buying CDs only on sale (unless they are Crimson-related, of course!) But here's a thought as to why -- just a guess, mind you -- isn't plastic a petroleum product? What has happened to gas/oil prices lately? The question is, are CD manufacturers passing on a real cost increase to the customer, or is the present jump in fuel prices only providing these manufacturers with an excuse to bilk the customer?

As to your main question, I would agree with those who have responded so far, except to add the following: Since Belew's first albums from the early 80's are no longer in print, try the compilation Desire of the Rhino King. I especially like the track She is Not Dead which reminds me of the Beatles' Tomorrow Never Knows, except slowed way down. If you are looking for more obvious Beatles influences, you'll find a track or two on almost every release, with perhaps the best ones on Here. There's also one or two such tracks on Inner Revolution, which also features the track This is What I Believe In, which sounds more like Crimson than any of his other solo material.

On the other hand, I'm surprised nobody mentioned Mr. Music Head. To be sure, this is more pop-oriented than some of Adrian's other work, but am I alone in loving this CD?

Another recent favorite of mine is Op Zop Too Wah.

Or, to summarize, buy anything. You can't go wrong.

To Jeff, God of Biscuits, who wrote (regarding the gatefold remasters):

Does anyone know if these are mail-order releases only? Shouldn't I be seeing these along with the KC selections at my local music shop?

I don't know where you are writing from, but I saw all three gatefold releases in the FYE chain ("For Your Entertainment") in the Colonie Center Shopping Mall, Colonie, NY, just outside of Albany a few days ago. But you'll pay top dollar there...about $18 a pop (see previous paragraph above) as opposed to DGM's price.

[Speaking of the Albany, NY area, here's a subliminal message for Fripp & other Crimsonites: you WILL play in the Albany area when you tour!]

Now, on to new business. Those of you who bought the gatefold remasters, did you read all the details in the wonderful accompanying booklets? In particular, in the center page of the Islands booklet, there is an excerpt of a newspaper article from Nov, 1971 entitled "Crimson King Blues". Did you read the last paragraph? Allow me to quote:

...it led Fripp on to a fantasy of his: "We've been toying with the idea of doing an album of Crimson songs the way they shouldn't be done - 'Cadence And Cascade' as a reggae, 'Schizoid Man' as a big band swing..."

Does this idea resonate with anyone else? I'm sure he was joking for the interview, obviously too much of a financial risk for a mainstream album. But...But... what a perfect idea for the Collector's Club, eh? I'd LOVE to hear Dinosaur as a Waltz, or a folk version of Cat Food! C'mon, admit it! Can't you just HEAR the Roches singing Cat Food? They'd be perfect! Everything she's chosen is conveniently frozen...eat it and come back for more! It would be a complete riot. But the odd thing is, it could very well become a highly sought-after rarity! Let's all flood the DGM guestbook with requests.....

On that note, back to being the Waiting Man,

Peace (a theme)

-David Vella

PS to Dan Buxbaum: I can't think of an answer to your trivia question, unless maybe it is an Alexis Korner album? I can't remember, it being 25 years since I've heard anything by AK. So I guess I wouldn't classify that as an easy question. An easy question would be something like "name 2 Crimsongs with the word 'canoe' in the lyrics" or "name 2 Crimsongs with the word 'despair' in the lyrics'. But maybe that's too easy for the erudite eyes in this crowd.... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 09:57:13 +0200 From: masse at geocean dot u-bordeaux dot fr (Laurent MASSE) Subject: Earthbound/gatefolds or jb/TGD price Hello everybody, To hopefully close the Earthbound 2,3,n discussion, go to the news page at DGM: they are currently looking through the archives to gather material for "Ladies Of The Road". The last time we heard about this was in the liner notes to Absent Lovers. I believe it will be a regular release, but if it's DGM only it may not include any of the three remaining Earthbound tracks that never were released on CD. The copyright issue is a little bit complicated anyway. Jacksonville's Sailor's Tale was copyrighted Virgin as it was on Earthbound, but was reissued on a DGM CC release. So whether Peoria, Groon and Earthbound can legally be on Ladies of the Road is very unclear to me. To the people who have trouble with the gatefolds: I think a little care in handling the CDs is the solution. I've always kept all of my jewel boxes or digipaks or whatever in good condition, whereas a friend of mine always thrashes every kind of packaging. So is the problem with gatefolds or with people handling them? The ultimate solution could be a children toy-like packaging, but I definitely would not vote for this. To those complaining about TGD price: this is a limited appeal, low run release with an incredibly thick booklet. How could it be cheap? The initial release was really expensive too. When I bought my copy in 1993 in Paris, it was 500 FF (#50 or $75). A really difficult decision at the time. This disn't help finding something pleasant in "Tight Scrummy"! Laurent Masse masse at geocean dot u-bordeaux dot fr ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 10:59:45 +0200 From: "Gerd Weyhing" Subject: Re: Guitar on "Prince Rupert" & "Book of Saturdays" Hello, here's my Guess about the Robert's Guitar on "Prince Rupert Awakes",& "Book Of Saturdays": To me, it sounds pretty much like a guitar played/recorded backwards! I'd record it like this: 1.) Find a good melody/phrase and record it on top of the "background tracks" 2.) Play the whole recording backwards and listen to the "now- backwards-guitar-melody" 3.) Practice this "now-backwards-guitar-melody" 4.) With the recording setup still set to "backwards", record the practiced part on a new, empty track 5.) Now change your setup back to "recording forwards" again, mute the first guitar part, and listen only to the newly recorded guitar. But these days, there are different ways to play things like that: On the "People" of "B'Boom", Adrian Belew plays a short part that sounds definitely like played backwards. Because this is very hard to play live, he must have some assistance from his effect-board....... Hope this helps. Cheers, Gerd Weyhing, =:-# ----------------------------------- We are ugly, but we have the music. (Leonard Cohen) ----------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 10:15:30 +0100 From: "Ivor Canning" Subject: Re: Oxford Poly 1982 / Great Deceiver Packaging Hello All, As a relatively newbie lurker I just wanted to decloak and ask: a) Did I really just dream it or did I see KC at Oxford Polytechnic on Wednesday 10th March 1982 for a mere #2.50 (an event not commemorated in any gig history I've yet seen) ? It was a hell of a dream as I recall, with the band playing at more or less floor level in a low-ceilinged student bar and an indelible rendition of 'Red'. b) Has anyone else noticed that the keyboard player's hands depicted just inside the back cover of the 'Great Deceiver' booklet are actually those of Eddie Jobson not David Cross (cf the same photo, in reverse, on the inner sleeve of 'Viva! Roxy Music' for confirmation) ? Is this going to change in the new release, thereby immediately raising the value of original copies by 0.000000001p and a small snug anorak ?? Regards, Ivor. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 11:35:28 +0100 From: James Beard Subject: Comparing musicians. In ET#655, Ian Wallace wrote: > Recently, someone said in a letter, that Mike Giles was the best > Crimson drummer and had the best technique. When a musician gets > to a certain point, there is no such thing as "the best." I think > musicians should be taken on their own merits and not be compared > to one another at all. I couldn't agree more. Something which has saddened me over the years of reading ET is the way in which debates like 'Bruford is the best drummer' or 'What good does Trey Gunn do in the band?' have raged from time to time. What people really mean is, 'I prefer Bruford's drumming', or 'I'm not sure about Trey Gunn'. Expressing these sentiments in the form of slagging off one artist or another is so immature and pointless. I'm not immune to thinking things like this, but I try to be a little more objective about it. For example, I happen to prefer Bill Bruford in the whole 'which drummer' debate. But I recognise that all the other drummers who have passed through King Crimson have been very good, otherwise they wouldn't have been in the group. I also remember being skeptical of Trey Gunn around the time of Thrak, as I couldn't really tell where he was in the mix of the album. But once I'd heard some of his solo work, I realised that the guy can rock, and is a fantastic touch guitar player. I have a copy of the new Krimson album, and I have to say that I'm not yet convinced about the all-electric line up. But I haven't written it off either. It's a new thing, and will take time to fully appreciate. I think my ideal line-up would probably still be the 80s quartet, featuring real acoustic drums, and Tony Levin doubling on basses and stick. But it's not up to me, and I don't have the right to complain if I don't like it. I'm not being *forced* to buy the albums! I'm just glad that the guys are still making music and doing it the way they want (well, apart from Adrian's acoustic I Had a Dream). Anyway, I'll try not to ramble for much longer. I also wish people could stop obsessing so much about KC and the music. Try and chill a little. I just enjoy the music and try not to let it have too much importance in life. I think one should balance out the heaviness and muso-ness of KC with other music ... James. -- http://www.geocities.com/hal.geo/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 08:16:51 -0400 From: "David A. Sage" Subject: Re: Nobody knows the answer to that trivia question? > Dan B. wrote: > > >I'm surprised that nobody answered my trivia question a few digests > >back. (I'm sure that Michael 'Biff'son knows the answer but is being > >kind enuf to the rest not to answer.) Anyway, the question was: what > >'70s album features guest appearances by two Islands-era K.C'ers along > >with Eric Clapton & Charlie Watts? > > Hmm! What an (ahem) Irregular Combination of musicians. > > Your pal, > Biffy the Elephant Shrew At first I thought of Alexis Korner, or Long John Baldry, but then I realised it was Leon Russell's first album. _Many_ guests on that one (and I still happen to have 2 copies of it around, one of which has the original Shelter logo--any of you olstimers remember THAT kafuffle?) Dave P.S. So what do I win? Yet all experience is an arch wherethrough Gleams that untraveled world whose margin fades Forever and forever when I move. How dull it is to pause, to make an end, To rust unburnished, not to shine in use! Tennyson "Ulysses" - - - - - - - - dsage at continuum dot org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 08:26:48 -0400 From: "David A. Sage" Subject: Re: Nobody Knows the Answer . . .? Pt. II But after a closer look, I have decided that it's the Alexis Korner album _Bootleg Him_, not Leon Russell's first album (which has no trace of Wallace and/or Burrell). Dave -- Yet all experience is an arch wherethrough Gleams that untraveled world whose margin fades Forever and forever when I move. How dull it is to pause, to make an end, To rust unburnished, not to shine in use! Tennyson "Ulysses" - - - - - - - - dsage at continuum dot org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 09:51:44 -0400 From: Bob Pascarella Subject: 1-4-5 Frippery Blues Yes indeed...Our beloved Robert does not (and I know he can) play blues riffs. At the 1997 (or was it '96?) G3 Tour with Steve Vai, Joe Satriani and some other young kid, Robert was opening the shows with his SoundScape stuff. It was a very interesting showing for RF. He simply sat there, twiddling with his rack devices and layering up guitar lines while very few people slowly filtered in. Mostly, he played to the maintenance crew. Often he would walk off stage and stand to the far left and listen to the repeating patterns. Then slowly saunter back, make a subtle adjustment or add another line and walk away again. I found this to be like a painter who adds an element, then stands back to appreciate its' effect from the viewers P.O.V. But at the end of the show, Steve Vai invited all the guitarists up to "jam" on a simple blues 1-4-5 thing in the key of A. How simple is this for guitar players? Right out of the 101 book. So.. Stevie takes 8 bars (flying like an annoying bumble bee). Then Joe takes 8 (screaching like an old iron door hinge) Then the young kid actually plays a nice 8 in a S. Ray Vaughn style. Then they throw it to Robert (who insists on standing WAY to the left out of the light). Well..Robert sets up a quick layer thing in the key of H# (or was W flat?) Many people groaned. I laughed out loud and I'm sure RF heard me due to my proximity to the stage. I'm also sure poor Robert was dragged out there by the other guys. He looked like he really just wanted to finish his coffee and remain backstage. After the show backstage (I'm good friends with one of the bass players), I asked Robert how he felt about the "jam". Immediately he chuckled and said : "I tried to warn them...but they insisted." We both laughed. Although good natured about the whole thing, I had the distinct feeling that Robert would have rather NOT been part of the entire show. He did say that he enjoyed the personalities and abilities of the other guitarists, but did agree that the musical matchmaking was "a bit off". R. Pascarella ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 14:46:22 +0200 From: "Rainer Straschill" Subject: attack on culture In ET 655, Edgar Knausel wrote: >"Let us continue our attack on culture." John Wetton >Mmmm... I think the author was actually Robert Fripp. >I don't know, may be Wetton said it too, but Fripp >used to introduce a powerful song with those words, >back in 1971-74. The Fripp quote you are most probably referring to is "We shall now tune our mellotrons and attack culture once again", Fripp's intro to "Fracture" on "The Night Watch" album. Rainer Rainer Straschill Moinlabs GFX and Soundworks www.moinlabs.de ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 14:04:27 EDT From: MRKOC at aol dot com Subject: CGT w/ T Lev I flew home from Jacksonville, FL, yesterday, and stayed home long enough to unpack, and then it was out to the city to see the California Guitar Trio with T. Levin at a crowded bar, Martyr's. I've seen the CGT four times, and they continue to get better and more creative and intense with each performance. I wonder what they'd do if they picked up a Strat something other than their acoustic guitars. They wail on those, performing Beethoven, Bach, McLaughlin, their own compositions, and any number of guitar classics like Walk Don't Run or Miselou. Levin was an added bonus, his bass adding a thunderous frequency. They performed acoustic Discipline and Elephant Talk. After Discipline, Paul Richards looked at Tony, and profanely declared, "Who needs those other guys?" During Bohemian Rhapsody, the audience began to sing along, and there was a wonderful chorus to accompany one of their finest musical moments of whimsy. I know I'll catch some flack for this, but the only low point in the show was when they performed two of L. Lev's pieces. I'm beginning to believe that his compositions are in best form when he's collaborating with others. (I guess the same can be said for the holy one, Fripp.) Although Tony's pieces were melodic, they were almost too pretty for the kind of music these other men have been creating. But overall the music was great, the performances totally energized, and the crowd extremely enthusiastic. Regards, Kevin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 17:23:38 -0400 (EDT) From: "Weissenburger - Jeremy S." Subject: Re: Witless commentary >Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 14:34:46 -0700 (PDT) >From: sean hewitt >Subject: Witless commentary on PG1 > >First up, it's definitely Steve Hunter on Waiting For >The Big One, not RF and not Sid McGinnis. I apologize for making the error. I had been upstairs, and my CD collection is downstairs. I was wrong and I admit it. Still, all you need to do is make the correction. You didn't have to be insulting about it: >Most of the above doesn't require any "inside" >knowledge, just the ability to read record sleeves. >I'm amazed that such posts are ever written. It was an honest mistake, OK? Make the correction and move on. Geez. ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #656 ********************************