Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #654 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 654 Monday, 10 April 2000 Today's Topics: NEWS: Keith Tippett gig in Moscow GIG BIZ: KC TICS>>>>>> Earthbound I and II Great Deceiver/Crimson Usenet group Belew's Salad Days The New Gatefolds Fripp on Peter Gabriel 1 and Fripp Plectra Re: PG's Other guitarist Amy X Neuburg & Men Northwest US Tour Trade Wanted Drum notation on Three of a Perfect Pair wanted. Nobody knows the answer to that trivia question? Jonesing Re: The Great Deceiver: too expensive? Prog music KC tabs Great Deceiver box--no price too dear Re: git on prince rupert awakes ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 21:06:08 +0400 From: "Sergei Kantere" Subject: NEWS: Keith Tippett gig in Moscow To all Moscow-based crimsoids (hope it's not too late!): Keith and Julie Tippett perform in Moscow on April 13 in club DOM (www.dom.com.ru). Best, Sergei Kantere Moscow, Russia ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 09:31:44 EDT From: PR1955 at aol dot com Subject: GIG BIZ: KC TICS>>>>>> If anyone out there has 2 for any night in Nashville- any night- PLEASE PLEASE email me your price......I am at PR1955 at aol dot com dot dot dot ME- I am Paul...My business schedule now allows me the time off to see them. Have not missed a US tour since The Fillmore East...Would hate to stop the cycle now. I want to continue till I'm 64 (Hey is'nt that a song ?)...But really- please - if anyone has for sale please email me. Luv To All........Paul ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2000 17:00:13 +0200 From: izyrp at odn dot de Subject: Earthbound I and II In the tour programme from the Thrak-Tour Fripp himself has written: "Earthbound" (...)Subsequently deleted after much effort by myself in the 1980s, it is now a cult classic and in so much demand that we are planning to re-release it. We are also compiling "Earthbound 2" from my archives for DGM release in 1996." It's a shame really , that almost every year Fripp changes his mind about releasing or not releasing of "Earthbound". Zbig ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 11:47:15 EDT From: JMRosen at aol dot com Subject: Great Deceiver/Crimson Usenet group Hello All! Has the The Great Deceiver reissued being sold through DMG been remastered, or repackaged? I'm also wondering why there is no King Crimson usenet newsgroup. Anyone? [ There used to be, but it seems to have disappeared. -- Toby ] -- Joel M. Rosen ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 12:06:57 -0400 From: "Josh Chasin" Subject: Belew's Salad Days Mr Joseph Popp writes: >>>>>If you really like Adrian... 1) Lone Rhinosauras (solo w/band) 2) Desire Caught By The Tail (solo/solo) 3) Remain In Light (Talking Heads w/Adrian) No kidding...>>>>> No kidding indeed... I'll echo these sentiments, and add a title triggered by this post-- The Tom Tom Club's first album, the one with Genius of Love and Wordy Rappinghood. Man oh man, do the elephants talk on that one! Humbly submitted, Josh Chasin NYC, USA ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 15:29:39 -0700 From: "Martin Crawford" Subject: The New Gatefolds Greetings from the Great White North After reading the many comments regarding the re-issues, and one recent dodo slagging Bruford's chops, (probably a bait comment, we'll see) there is one area that needs to be addressed. Given the size of the gatefolds, how does one correctly remove twigs and seeds from a stash? It's impossible to do without nasty accidents. Was this intended by DGM or just an oversight ? Martin Crawford Hamilton, Canada Go Leafs Go !! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2000 22:27:13 +0100 From: Arcoddath Subject: Fripp on Peter Gabriel 1 and Fripp Plectra First up, the guitar solo on "Waiting for the Big One", as with most of the guitar on Peter Gabriel's first album ("Car") is by Steve Hunter. Fripp is on the album but only in parts -- he's also credited with Classical Guitar (the mind boggles!) and banjo (on "Excuse Me"). Interestingly, "Ecuse Me" also features a barbershop quartet led (and presumably arranged) by Tony Levin. I've never heard the story about getting RF plastered to play the blues before... Secondly, about eight years ago I ordered a small batch of "Fripp picks" from a source in the USA. These were small triangles in a black material. I wore them out fast and have never again been able to trace the source. Any help? Regards, ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 20:49:18 -0400 (EDT) From: "Weissenburger - Jeremy S." Subject: Re: PG's Other guitarist >Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 11:48:35 +0100 >Subject: Re: Fripp and Peter Gabriel's first album > >> I really like the blues guitar solo on "Waiting For The Big One". >> Does anyone know if this Fripp playing or is it the other guitarist on >> the album? > >I read somewhere (no idea where, this could be pure heresay, who knows?) >that it was indeed RF, but it was deemed necessary to inebriate him >first with alcohol in order to enable him to "play the blues". > >True or not, it's certainly amusing. I suspect it probably is RF (even >if the alcohol bit is someone having a joke) as, although it doesn't >sound like his style of playing, it is most innovative - nice use of >fret-sliding whole chords and fast, envelope altering volume swells. >Then again, I'm not familiar with the "other guitarist"..... The other guitarist PG had on hand was Sid McGinniss, who is now best known for playing in the house band of David Letterman's TV show. I had always thought it was Sid who played that solo, as it didn't seem very much like Fripp's style. But then again, who knows? --Jeremy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 22:34:14 -0700 From: Matthew Nolan Subject: Amy X Neuburg & Men Northwest US Tour Hello Northwest friends! Amy X Neuburg & Men bring their electronic avant-cabaret art rock (including a mean and manly cover of KC's Waiting Man) (and a Chapman stick-ist) to an urban center near you. Here's the schedule: Wed 4/12 PORTLAND: Berbati's Pan Thurs 4/13 EUGENE: Vets Club Fri 4/14 SEATTLE: The Rainbow Sat 4/15 SEATTLE: Pink Door Mon 4/17 PORTLAND: Satyricon plus several in-store performances. Email me for further details (start times, addresses, etc.). Hope to see you!!! -- Herb Heinz herb at isproductions dot com For info on Herb's CD, "Failure": http://www.isproductions.com/herb/failure.shtml - For mp3 songs: http://www.mp3.com/herb For info on the new CD from Amy X Neuburg & Men, "Sports! Chips! Booty!": http://www.isproductions.com/amy/band.shtml ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2000 23:45:34 -0700 From: Todd Crane Subject: Trade Wanted Hi there, I have a copy of King Crimson Collector's Club #7, Live in San Francisco ProjeKct Four - The Roar of P4 that I would like to put on the trading block. I am not desperate to get rid of this fine disc, but if it can snag me some good bounty in a trade I'm willing to go for it. Below are some offers I'm willing to accept. Feel free to suggest your own. My copy of KCCC #7 for your.... remastered, gatefold copies of Islands and Lizard copy of KCCC Live at Jacksonville '72 etc.... I'm not interested in bootlegs. Thanks, but no thanks. I'm also willing to sell KCCC #7 and put the proceeds toward renewing my KCCC membership, so monetary offers will be entertained. Take care, Todd ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 07:57:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Asko Kauppinen Subject: Drum notation on Three of a Perfect Pair wanted. If anybody has any sort of notation for the 6/8 verse part of ToaPP, I`d really appreciate a copy. I`m planning on translating it on a sequencer. I prefer e-mails to be sent directly at my address. Don`t want to annoy every ETer, do we. Thanks, a argoniteman at yahoo dot com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2000 11:32:02 -0400 From: "Dan B." Subject: Nobody knows the answer to that trivia question? Hello E-T Land, I'm surprised that nobody answered my trivia question a few digests back. (I'm sure that Michael 'Biff'son knows the answer but is being kind enuf to the rest not to answer.) Anyway, the question was: what '70s album features guest appearances by two Islands-era K.C'ers along with Eric Clapton & Charlie Watts? Since nobody wasted their time to answer i'll throw out some more clues: one of the tracks in question on this disc features Charlie Watts playing drums with one of those members of '71-'72 Crimson mentioned. The song with Clapton on it does not feature any previous K.C. members. Another song in question that has the other member of the '71-'72 K.C. on it also features John Entwistle on there as well (but not on his 'standard' bass guitar). There, that should give it away to everybody (or at least those familiar with '70s stuff). A great record with great songs on it. Also nobody responded to my query on the new Lizard remaster. Therefore, i've surmissed that either the mix is not resoundingly different--the two-track earlier CD master was probably just run threw some newer mastering gear like the latest gen. equipment from TC Electronic to 'brighten' it up a bit more(?)--or that those that bought the mini-LP bought it for the packaging and haven't played the damn thing! Maybe I should ask again when the regular jewel case version is available. Either way, it's not that important to me as I am quite happy with the '89 Definitive Edition of Lizard--haven't decided yet if i'll pick up the new remaster--the new Crimson album is a higher shopping priority. Just played Lizo again, and more nuances become ever more present. Lizard really shows off Robert Fripp's "composer/arranger" side (even though it was made a long time ago and things change and he might disagree with that assessment from me). It's so 'orchestrated', with the orchestral and alternately jazzy horns thickening & punctuating the sound. Additionally with the highly original acoustic guitar, mellotron, and early synth & electric piano synthesis. It's strange that I finally "heard" the arranged chord progression & Fripp's playing thereof on "Indoor Games" to be almost structurally "bluesy" (minor pentatonic? could be wrong)--though of course, it's a pretty twisted blues--if it hasn't shaken off it's 'blues' chord roots & 'accepted' instrumental accents all together--never caught that before though. Also the nice major key "...Baboons to sing..." part is an attractive 'c' section and a gorgeous melody before the main theme kicks in again with even more ferocity. Also appreciate Gordon Haskell's bass & vocal stylings and the drumming from Andy McCullough is just INCREDIBLE. He had the power and "grand" orchestral-scope that Michael Giles had, but his playing is more slippery flexible, nuanced and darting/slicing through the arrangements than Giles'. I guess what I'm trying to say is that his drumming on Lizard is just as original, skillful, musical and bizarre as the rest of the other instrumental & non-instrumental components that went into making this album such an original, timeless and unique piece of work. People can like or dislike Lizard but it does possess a unique conception which makes it 'special'. (Isn't that 'special'?) (Since somebody asked about who might be attending the level one Guitar Craft course in September: i hope to be there--if I can get off from work, shouldn't be a prob.--if so, I'll be the lefty weirdo with the Simon & Patrick non-cutaway regular acoustic. My guitar playing could use some well-organized discipline no doubt!) -- "Things are never bad; it's the way you think about them." -- Epictetus (What a silly old Greek optimist) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 13:52:39 EDT From: AGH6868 at aol dot com Subject: Jonesing Hey folks, I just want to say that I sure hope the boys will make a jaunt to Salt Lake City when they tour the states. I've only lived here for six months. I used to live in Chicago and Boston where I got to see a fair share of Crimson shows. Salt Lake is a much smaller "big city" and the music scene here is pathetically lacking visits from cool bands. Plus all the big names seem to come on weeknights. Wheras in Chicago it seemed the great bands would always play on a Friday or Saturday night. King Crimson.....come to Salt Lake!!! Please!!! Sincerely, Gunnar ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 11:46:08 -0700 From: "sdavmor" Subject: Re: The Great Deceiver: too expensive? From The most recent Artist Shop Newsletter: KING CRIMSON/THE GREAT DECEIVER (4CD) BOX SET And last, but certainly not least, is King Crimson/The Great Deceiver 4CD box set! I've just been informed by Caroline that they've just discovered that they have a number of these still available. No doubt many of you have heard that DGM are reissuing this box set (and, in fact, are currently taking pre-orders for the reissue). What I'm offering is the original 1992 release of Great Deceiver, not the impending DGM reissue. According to information from DGM on the reissue, there is apparently no difference in the track listing for the two box sets. However, I need to make clear that I do not have any information as to whether there will be any changes in the packaging or sonic quality of the DGM reissue. Nor do I know how soon the DGM reissue will be available (can't be too long if they're already taking pre-orders on it). The original release that I have available is in an elaborately packaged longbox with a very extensive 68 page book. For those of you who may be unfamiliar with The Great Deceiver, it is a collection of previously unreleased live recordings from the Fripp, Wetton, Bruford, Cross ensemble from 1973-1974. Included is a good number of improvisations (about 15!!!) not available elsewhere plus a live performance of the Crimson song Doctor Diamond! The price on this box set is $54.99. Again, this is the original release that is out of print. If you're specifically interested in the forthcoming DGM reissue, I recommend you visit the DGM website for more information Regards, Steven Davies-Morris (SDM) -- A 21st Century Schizoid Man (who loves this terrific boxed set) Brief Bio: http://www.jes.com/aboutus.html Personal: http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/Island/1274 Systems Theory: http://systemstheory.net/ [hear Mellotron by Mike Dickson!] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2000 15:50:16 -0400 From: Dom Peruso Subject: Prog music Fans of KC and progressive music might want to check out the following website. "Let us continue our attack on culture." John Wetton The above quote perfectly summarizes the mission of Attack on Culture: Attack the prevalent business culture of encouraging performers to become the "flavor-of-the-month." Attack on Culture seeks to encourage innovation in music and the evolution of culture. To that end, AoC presents quality music by outstanding musicians directly to a global audience. Fans of progressive and art rock will find something they like in two AoC ensembles. Wine of Nails is an instrumental outfit delivering prog rock, funk, fusion, and world-influenced music. They have been compared to King Crimson, Vai, Santana and Yes. The Grimm deliver progressive rock and power metal and have been compared to Rush, Queensryche, and Crimson. Buy one CD and receive the second for half-price at www.attackonculture.com. Samples of these artists are available at www.attackonculture.com. Interested artists should email info at attackonculture dot com Thanks. dfp at attackonculture dot com www.attackonculture.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 00:00:08 -0400 From: Johnnyroman Subject: KC tabs this may be a question answered somewhere else, (I've already looked through the faq) but I wanted to know how to post tab for elephant talk's tab section. I want to fill in alot of the missing "holes" in the exsisting tabs. Any response would be appreciated. mike ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 09:31:37 -0400 From: "Snow, Rick" Subject: Great Deceiver box--no price too dear Re: the posting of the cost of The Great Deceiver box set. Is it expensive? Yes, in an absolute sense. In a relative sense? It is a bargain. It is what can happen AFTER you buy the set that gets expensive. I, like many on this list, had my first introduction to King Crimson with ITCOTCK when it was initially released. I, quite frankly, did not buy another KC record until Discipline. I got back into KC (Discipline, Beat and Three of A Perfect Pair) by way of League of Gentlemen and a Fripp instore performance at Peach's in Ft. Lauderdale. During the intervening years--high school, college, young adult life--what was termed as Prog Rock really didn't do it for me (still doesn't). Despite well-meaning attempts of siblings and friends, I never could stand Yes, ELP, PFM or other bands of that ilk. So, for me, there really wasn't a King Crimson that didn't have Adrian Belew and Tony Levin in it. Fast forwarding until the 90's--I had seen and admired the handsome Frame by Frame boxset but wondered if I really needed to spend that much money on a KC collection. I'd go into the store, pick it up, admire it, wonder about it, and eventually put it down and leave with some other purchase. Well, one evening, after imbibing a few beers with a friend after work, I cruised by the music store and there--displayed with the new releases--was The Great Deceiver boxset. Now, there was a handsome box with a tracklisting with which I essentially was totally unfamiliar. I promptly laid it on the counter, whipped out my credit card and walked out the door. By the time I hit my car, I already had "buyer's remorse." How could I have spent that much money on a KC boxset? I didn't know any of those songs!! What in the hell was I thinking? Before I could turn back around, I got the shrinkwrap off and the first disc in the cd player. Before I got home, I was hooked and happy. For the next month, I listened to nothing else. Soon thereafter, I began the task of "backwards filling"--starting at Red and working backwards. There was an investment. And now that the "Definitive Editions" are no longer definitive (and will need to be replaced), and with the KC Collectors Club, and Soundscapes--it isn't the money I spent on The Great Deceiver--it's the money that I've spent BECAUSE of The Great Deceiver that has put a dent in my budget. And I really don't regret a penny of it. R Snow ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 17:17:07 +0100 From: Clive Backham Subject: Re: git on prince rupert awakes >>>Fripp uses a great effect on prince rupert awakes and the same one on >>>the mid-section of book of saturday. Always thought it was an envelope >>>modifier(???). >Always naievely thought he'd recorded the solo then just reversed the tape.... >Has anyone tried to re-reverse them and verify aurally? A few years ago there was a discussion about that part on Book of Saturday, and whether it was based on violin/guitar/whatever. I reversed it and can categorically state that it is reversed guitar. I've not done the same with Prince Rupert, so couldn't say. I assume we're talking about the line that follows the descending five notes of electric piano at the start of the chorus? In that case, it doesn't sound quite the same to me. I'd say it is quite possible that it isn't reversed guitar. ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #654 ********************************