Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #649 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 649 Saturday, 25 March 2000 Today's Topics: NEWS: California Guitar Trio/Tony Levin GIG BIZ: Tickets in Central Europe re: Islands Ian Anderson, on King Crimson....1971. Crimson gigs in UK? T-Lev and Narada Records King Crimson Concerts Coming Up. Liner Notes Re: Islands remastered edn. Concerning different release dates of TCOL Scour12345 in ET 648 Tony/Narada; thanks Christian hearing? Japan CDs Islands doesn't suck? KCCC9 wanted I Have a Dream Formentera Bound Guitar Synths I have a Dream I Have A Dream - controversial? ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 20:14:56 -0500 (EST) From: Adam Levin Subject: NEWS: California Guitar Trio/Tony Levin Orion Sound Studios 2903 Whittington Ave Baltimore, Maryland Saturday, April 15th, 2000 8PM California Guitar Trio with Special Guest Tony Levin The world renowned acoustic guitar trio will be teaming up with King Crimson/Peter Gabriel bassist Tony Levin performing a collection of music from their past repertoire, music from Tony's new album _Waters of Eden_ and a few surprises! [http://www.cgtrio.com/] [http://www.papabear.com/] Admission: Tickets are $17.50 + service charge/$20 day of show Advance tickets will go on sale Friday March 24th from TicketWeb at http://www.ticketweb.com/ or by phoning 510-594-1400. This is an all ages show ======================================================================== OTHER INFO: Point your favorite web browser to The Progressive Rock Web Site at http://www.progrock.net/ -Adam --- "...if one strives at hearing for the sake of constant virtue, out of seeking liberation from cyclic existence, gradually one becomes a Hearer." - Chandrakirti T h e D a r k A e t h e r P r o j e c t http://www.darkaether.net/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 11:17:42 +0100 From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: GIG BIZ: Tickets in Central Europe Hello ETers, I just learned the what the prices of the tickets for the Warsaw Crimson performances are. And those are not good news - they range from 120 to 250 PLN (30 - 60 american dollars!). Is it normal? What are the prices in Prague, Berlin, Budapest etc,? What are the venues like? Another thing is the the venue in Poznan, Poland. Fripp complained about the Congress Hall in Warsaw where KC played during Thrakkattak Tour as being too large (that's why they play in Roma theatre now, which is smaller). Well, the congress hall is a venue for two thousend peolple. And the Arena hall where they are going to play in Poznan is much bigger - it is a large basketball hall for about 6000 men. It is a horrible place with no acoustic at all. I cannot imagine a concert of improvised music there! Yours Oh Nick, I had the strangest dream! I thought - how could I know what I was never taught?" Stravinsky/Auden "The Rake's Progress" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 17:55:35 +1100 From: "Tom Pitsis" Subject: re: Islands I concur with you re: Islands. It's a great KC album. You say you don't know whether to go for Lizard or Poseidon next. As a satiated Islands audient/purchasant I must recommend Lizard (my own favorite KC), in my humble Masters degree: CD (purchasing) opinion. Much beauty there, but for the best Frippstuff ever try the Sylvian collabaration. Yes, it's really Frippstuff because Sylvian alone lacks a certain... umm... I don't know what. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 01:00:31 -0800 From: "Ehrcraft" Subject: Ian Anderson, on King Crimson....1971. Thought this was an interesting quote found, at the Jethro Tull Print Archive- http://www.abj.btinternet.co.uk/index.htm - about a visit to a San Francisco FM station during the Aqualung tour. This comes from the 1971 article titled, "Ian hates drugs. John likes Tchaikovsky. Jeffrey is alert. Barrie is Church of England" A half hour later, having been driven there in a rented Continental limo precisely the color of faded money, Ian Anderson sits cramped in the tiny, cluttered broadcast booth of a local FM rock station, facing a very nervous, very young man inhabiting wire-rim glasses, a mass of hair, and scuffed cowboy boots. The disk jockey across from Ian is very nervous because he is very young and hasn't been a disk jockey for all that long, and because he is ignorant, in the biblical sense, about Jethro Tull's music. To top that off, he has all four of Tull's albums - 'This Was', 'Stand Up', 'Benefit', and 'Aqualung' - arrayed before him, but Ian says he doesn't want to hear any of Tull's music, he wants to hear Roy Harper's music instead. Since the disk jockey is ignorant, in the biblical sense, of Roy Harper's music as well, his nervousness escalates; he slaps another of Ian's requests, King Crimson's '21st Century Schizoid Man', on the turntable, mutters, I still get off on this record, and lopes off to the library to return with the lone Roy Harper album available. Roy Harper, Ian tells him in a polite but firm instruction, is a great English acoustic player who wipes the floor with all your James Taylors, Gordon Lightfoots, Dylans. (22 July 1971) Rolling Stone Mag. Q. Is there a KC Print archive like this? The one here at ET is a bit thin. Silly question....What would Fripp do if you turned on a strobe light.....leave the country? Cheers, D. Ehr Portland, OR. USA ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 12:36:11 +0000 From: James Beard Subject: Crimson gigs in UK? I was just wondering how come the UK seems to be so neglected when it comes to Crimson and related groups and their tour schedules. Only about 6 or 7 single dates from the whole of all the ProjeKcts were in this country. It doesn't seem right somehow. Similarly, Bruford Levin, The Trey Gunn Band, Adrian Belew, California Guitar Trio, no sign of them in the UK. And there are no UK dates yet for the Double Duo. I would have hoped they would perform here first, with their operating base (DGM) being here, and coming from this country originally. I guess now that the group itself is 3/4 American, it's not surprising that they're performing most of their shows there. Also, it could be down to the fact that the US is more open to that kind of music. Are there not enough fans in the UK? At least Bill Bruford's Earthworks seem happy to do a proper number of shows over here. James. -- James Beard Production Runner - Qtwo http://www.unique.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 07:28:12 -0800 From: "Cerquone, Suzanne" Subject: T-Lev and Narada Records Dave wrote: >>Now, when artists such as Tony himself proceed to navigate himself through the murky depths of progressive/experimental music, there seems (to me, at least) to be 2 sides to this particular realm of musical territory: there's the tasteful, jazzy, world music, rythmic side, and then there's the sappy, new age, dentist office/elevator music side. I'm concerned about "Waters Of Eden" being released on Narada records, because I've always known Tony to be on the favorable side of things. However, I fear that he may be riding the very fine line that separates these 2 music worlds.<< The latest sampler from Peter Gabriel's Real World label has the Narada label logo on the CD back cover; so perhaps there was some kind of merger between the two labels, which makes sense if Levin all of a sudden is releasing his latest CD there. So perhaps it's not all bad if the integrity of Real World is behind it. Suzanne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 15:49:32 +0000 From: Henrik Irgens Subject: King Crimson Concerts Coming Up. Dear list! Lucky to have secured tickets for their Copenhagen gigs in May, I'm still left wondering, why no planned concerts in London/UK? I remember Fripp, at the signing in the bookshop Borders (Charing Cross), saying that touring was basically only possible in the states 'cause of the huge cost of running the production elsewhere..... Why Copenhagen, Denmark, Amagerbio and not The Jazz Cafe or Royal Festival Hall or even the Albert Hall? Anyone? Henrik Irgens irgens at perjesi dot demon dot co dot uk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 11:42:21 -0500 (EST) From: Art Cohen Subject: Liner Notes Carsten wrote: : I really enjoyed Ian Wallace's liner notes a lot. If possible by any : means, I would like to see something like that also in forthcoming : releases. The perceptions of the band members on that particular : incarnation of the group, and even the concert captured in this release, : is a true added value to the CD. I have to agree wholeheartedly with this. I *much* more enjoy reading some liner notes by a member of the band on the CD, and regarding the circumstances of that CD's recording, rather than, say, Fripp's or Gunn's diary from the time period that the disc was being assembled. It seems like, say, in 2 or 3 (or 10, or 20) years, when I come back to this CD, the liner notes will still be relevant, whereas the tour notes from one of the ProjeKct tours (as appear on some of the other KCCC releases) will seem oddly anachronistic. --Art ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 12:04:33 -0500 From: Jim Bailey Subject: Re: Islands remastered edn. >Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 16:57:02 +0000 >From: James Beard >I think there is some really beautiful stuff on this record, and it >makes a nice change to hear Crimson not focusing on dissonance and chaos >so much. I think it's worth buying for 'Prelude: Song of the Gulls' >alone. I have to second this, especially the last part. It brings to mind a question, though. I have never seen it mentioned (or even asked for that matter) who the musicians are on "Prelude." I think it would be safe to assume that Robin Miller plays the oboe part, but who are the string players. Talented as the band was (perhaps even Boz ;->), I doubt they could've pulled that off. I have always wondered why they weren't credited on the LP. Does anybody out there know? Jim Bailey ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 12:16:13 EST From: NotoriousAWOL at aol dot com Subject: Concerning different release dates of TCOL I was looking over Belew's fine website and saw some criticism of all the "drivel" on ET. It occured to me how spoiled we can become in this information age if we lose perspective of where we are in history. How wonderful to have an international forum like this right at our fingertips! Concerning the grousing over different release dates of TCOL in different countries: So it's always been. I recall buying "Islands", "Larks Tongues" and "Starless" as imports. Hadda have 'em, baby! Of course, they were right there on the record store shelf staring at me. Thats a little different than persuing a copy of TCOL around the world. I read somewhere in these pages that Fripp is "forcing us to buy the high priced imports". Geez. I'd say get a life if it wasn't such a tired expression. Whoops! Just said it. You know what? I enjoy the club releases coming through the mail so much that's how I'm choosing to buy TCOL. Being the # 1 Crimson fan ( sorry, Phil from Victor's House of Music) I think I can shoutout to the rabid: Relax. It's just a record. And its coming to us. Hey Crimson guys: Thanks for some new music! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 13:18:31 -0500 From: "Albert Oller" Subject: Scour12345 in ET 648 Great!! No-one has even heard T. Levin's new music yet and someone is already preparing (threatening) to criticize the music or T. Levin for having played it. Could this possibly be why A. Belew used the overly polite term "turd"? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 10:30:33 -0800 From: "Scott Steele" Subject: Tony/Narada; thanks Christian >I'm concerned about "Waters Of Eden" being released on Narada records, >because I've always known Tony to be on the favorable side of things. >However, I fear that he may be riding the very fine line that separates >these 2 music worlds. I think Tony is using the strong distribution arm of Narada to his benefit. I think From the Caves of the Iron Mountain and World Diary could have been excellent Narada products if he had decided to do them that way. >All the best to you all!/Christian Isendahl, Sweden Christian, thanks for posting the Meridiem information. - S. np: Buckethead, Monsters and Robots scottst at ohsu dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 21:06:41 +0000 From: fullcircleuk Subject: hearing? Maybe I'm going deaf in my old age (too many Crimso concerts I suspect), but - did I hear Mr Fripp say: There's more to hearing than meets the ear. -Robert Fripp Or was it "there's more to herrings than meet the ear?" unless you've been thoroughly slapped by a fish, usually it's just a bit of a brush with the gills. Dave ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 22:27:20 +0000 From: Andrew Jones Subject: Japan CDs Adam asked "So, how does one order a CD from Japan and have it arrive quickly and safely?" I've used www.cdjapan.co.jp and found them reliable. They take VISA/ Mastercard/ Amex. Other sites which are out there but which I haven't used are www.tower.co.jp and www.hmv.co.jp Andrew Jones ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 18:36:22 EST From: Hocow at aol dot com Subject: Islands doesn't suck? Howdy, Wow an ET a day lately. Just got to thinking after reading James Beard's post that he had bought Islands despite seeing it slagged by the faithful. KC music is like sex. At its worst it is better than anything else. ( The one arguable exception being Earthbound) Islands is definately an excellent album if you are taking an open or pro approach to it. To me all the early albums suffer a bit from being dated but if I am in the mood to overlook this they all have their own charms. If you are debating Lizard or Poseidon that is a tough call. I am probably alone in preferring both of these to the first album. Using the first album as a frame of reference, if you want more of the same (and I mean that as a good thing) buy Poseidon. If you want to get something different Lizard is a totally unique performance. The vocals are quirky and an acquired taste. It is more a performance by an orchaestra of session players than an album by a coherent band. This leads to it being incohesive (Fripp has problems with it because of this.) but I find the random qualities to make it more interesting. Some songs are almost collage like in the way mellotron and guitar bursts slap you at random. There is a rock dixieland feel to the pieces with multiple horn players. Overall I think Lizard is the more entertaining choice but Poseidon is the safer. You should enjoy either one as much as Islands. I guess I shoud have sent this to Mr. Beard but I have always found everyone else's opinions on the various Crim albums to be a good read. Brad Wilmot ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 00:52:33 +0200 From: Peter Drubetskoy Subject: KCCC9 wanted Hello, all. I'm interested in "Live at Summit Studios" KCCC9 release while being ready to get rid of KCCC 5,6 "Live on Broadway". Anyone interested in swaping is welcome. Cheers, Peter. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 18:21:09 -0400 From: Andrew Acunzo Subject: I Have a Dream Well, I listened to the new Krim (or Belew) song. First off, thanks to Adrian for making it available! And I thought his commentary was really interesting and insightful. It was a great read and provided another behind-the-scenes look at the making of the new album. However, I thought Belew's text was much more interesting than the song itself, which seemed, well, pretty boring (but like he said, after all the "controversy," it was bound to disappoint). The music is somewhat haunting and reminiscent of Inner Garden, but the lyrics are just a list of events and could have come right out of Billy Joel's "We Didn't Start the Fire." I don't see what was so offensive about it and especially don't understand why it's still on the album in full-band format but not as the ballad version, but I just didn't care for it. If the purpose was to offer a moment of peace before the final onslaught of Larks' 4, though, why couldn't it have been left as an acoustic guitar and soundscapes instrumental? It seems like that might have been a better compromise and kept the balance of the album intact. Andy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 18:25:03 PST From: "Brian Barton" Subject: Formentera Bound In recent issues of ET the "Celebration of the Lizard" Boston 72 bootleg has been mentioned as a potential Collectors' Club release. While more Islands band releases are always welcome, I think a show from 1971 should come first since there's nothing live from that year in the catalog. Even though Ian Wallace contends that 1972 performances were just as good, I still think collectors would enjoy hearing live versions of other songs like The Letters, Devil's Triangle, and Islands as well as Peter Sinfield's synthesizer. The sound may be rough, but club members were by and large willing to put up with Live at the Marquee 69, and there are a few 1971 shows that sound at least as good if not better without any treatment at all. NY Academy of Music 71 has also been raised as a possibility, and while it is a great show, I would argue that the performances at Plymouth and Brighton are even better. Alternatively, Toronto would make a good compromise since it's almost as good a show and has the best sound of all 1971 shows. I'd also like to announce that I'm in the early stages of developing a website that will deal primarily with the Islands band. So far all I really have is a list of audience recordings with commentary for many of the shows. My goal is to have a setup that parallels the ET release page, where each official release has its own page with basic details and reviews, except that my page would cover unofficial releases. To this end, I'm inviting ET'rs to visit and submit their own reviews for the shows listed. I would especially like to hear from those who went to the shows - even seemingly minor details like the lightshow or what the performance meant to you in personal terms would be welcomed. Previously unpublished scans of pics or memorabilia would also be greatly appreciated. Thanks, and I hope to hear from you soon. http://geocities.com/bartbri ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 21:33:10 -0000 From: "John Hawkins" Subject: Guitar Synths Joseph Popp's posting about the synthesizer exhibition at the Erie Art Museum (ET648) prompts me to invite comments on, and perhaps confirmation of, the following apocryphal points: RF was involved in the development of the early guitar synths (made by Roland?), but unfortunately the situation arose where the devices behaved perfectly under his fingers, but mistracked and crashed when played by anybody else! Robert was the only guitarist whose playing produced a clean enough control signal for the temperamental electronic systems to respond to correctly. This is probably the closest we are going to get to an objective, scientific, confirmation of the opinion that RF has the most immaculate technique on the planet! The dedicated guitar used in this system is easily recognised by the stiffening arm running from the body to the head, above and roughly parallel to the fingerboard. Is this the model on display at the Erie Arts Museum? Is anbody out there still playing one of these beasts? I understand that in order to tame the vicissitudes of the guitar/electronics interface, this "Input Module" ended up being, in effect, a standard electric guitar of very high quality indeed. I have always believed that the solo on "Three of a Perfect Pair" (played by Adrian?) used one of these synths, deliberately exploiting the weaknesses for musical effect. It would be great if someone in the know could comment on this. This aspect of "Getting more out of the technology than anybody realised was in there." has been notable in all incarnations of KC down the years. Best Wishes, John. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 22:42:34 -0600 From: "Grant Colburn" Subject: I have a Dream Boy, I'm more confused than ever with what the whole controversy was about. So Fripp told Adrian that it was too depressing. Doesn't Robert Fripp realize that almost ALL of his music has a depressing, disturbing vibe to it? I mean think of Starless or Epitaph. Can you GET more depressed? And what is Threnody for Souls In Torment? I can barely listen to all of it usually, its so dark and disturbing. Why do you think Belew wrote it after all? Chances are he was just going along with the overall vibe of the rest of the new King Crimson disk. Now don't get me wrong, I love Fripp's dark disturbing music, but he shouldn't be surprised when the dissonant chromatic music he writes actually inspires people to write unhappy words and ideas. Its like the question I tried to ask Fripp some time ago, how does he equate his dark "evil sounding" music with his message of music being a positive and uplifting experience? If Adrian wrote the lyrics as they are then so be it. My guess is that it was the overall vibe of the music on the upcoming disk that brought those words out in the first place. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 23:41:09 -0500 From: "Jeffrey A. Sontag" Subject: I Have A Dream - controversial? Re: "I Have A Dream": I cannot see at all why this song should have been controversial with anyone (this totally apart from the question as to whether it is to one's personal taste). Unfortunately, the only thing I can see it as is yet another victory for Political Correctness - we can't talk about sad things or bad things because somebody will be upset or offended. (For what it's worth, the song is 100% to my personal taste - I like it.) Jeff Sontag jasontag at csionline dot net ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #649 ********************************