Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #647 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 647 Sunday, 19 March 2000 Today's Topics: Track 8 RIPS! KC new album The Lady or the Tiger boot the bootlegging PLEASE all this and all of that Cigarettes and Ice Cream Pre-Fripp soundscapes Islands LP Re: SABB Live in Mexico City, Japan Releases and bootlegging KCCC 9; Earthbound and USA Re: starless 'Summit' KCCC CD Starless and Bible Black correction! Fripp's influences Follow-up to my Windows Media Player Experience Re: Mexico City for DOWNLOAD? New Crimson secret dates? Japan First and BLUE Nights and Creator Ian Anderson, on King Crimson....1971. Fripp/Summers video Starless and Bible Black remove Mexico Show: the downloadable issue 'starless and bible black' Euro Tour Re: The construKCtion of light DVD players ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 18:34:10 -0800 (PST) From: Joseph Basile Subject: Track 8 RIPS! Hello, Waiting for the new Crimson. In my CD playing for over a week now my top 5@5! 5.ICOTCK(remastered)4.The Ladder/YES(It's Going To Be A Good Day)3.CGT On Tour With KC. (Thanks Chico! 2.Boot CD/KC Paris TV.... Starless...AH #1.Refflin,Fripp,Gunn /Angelic Behavior/ (Track 8 Fripps!) Basile By The Three Rivers! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 01:12:24 PST From: "Manuel Rabasse" Subject: KC new album Hi there, i've just received an advance copy of the ContruKCtion of Light from Virgin France. I have the same track listing as the cretin who whines endlessly at the end of the last ET but my cd player indicates 11 tracks. can anyone shed any light on that. Also as far as i can understand the lyrics i think this track listin is in the wrong runnin order. I think et's will be in a surprise when they hear "ProzaKC Blues" which is a blues but a "weird one". Also about releasing first the album in japan, this is simply because as you should know if you were a bit aware of the music world, domestic press of cds is much more expensive there than in europe. That means if the japanese corporations dont do anything, the market will be flooded by imports and they will disappear. That'a why there's a lot of "special japanese edition" on the market. And you dont have to buy the KC lp right when it's out. You can wait until it's issued rest of the world. I dont have a european date of release yet but it shouldnt be long. I'll let you all know. Cheers. Manuel ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 21:28:25 +0100 From: "Christian Skina" Subject: The Lady or the Tiger Can anyone provide me with a copy of this recording? Thanks Christian ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 12:53:26 -0000 From: Jonathan Canning Subject: boot the bootlegging PLEASE I dont have a whole lot to say right now, I prefer to read/listen to all other ETers but one thing that is becoming UNBEARABLE is the bootlegging conversations! I must say something about this, precisely: ADD BOOTLEGGING TO THE DEAD THREADS SECTION! Obviously everyone feels strongly about it one way or the other, but no solution is going to solidify! Isnt that clear?! It seems to have taken over the majority of the forum and IT MUST STOP! There ARE other things to discuss folks, and bootlegging will always continue, no matter how much the topic is pounded out. OK .... So when are Crimson going to appear in the UK!?!? Anyone? Please!! The anticipation is annoying me and I might have to go to Paris... i guess that can't be bad! ;} Thanks for letting me get that off my chest! Adios readers anonymous. Ami2b at hotmail dot com [ Yep, I'm tightening up on this. It's off topic, for a while at least. --Toby ] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 14:09:44 +0100 From: Gnad Markus Subject: all this and all of that I) "The Bootleg Controversy" I have no opinion about taping or not. [ so I cut the rest of the paragraph :-) -- Toby ] II) "The ProjeKcts" Has anybody ever tried to find out in which way the song titles of P1 and P2 relate to the actual music? An example: Heavy & Light ConstruKction are basically the same tunes, but both played with various instrumentations. In Vector Shifts and Grooves and Sus-tain-Z-stuff may be same relationships - yet you have to listen very often and try very hard to find them out. It's easy to check a guitar phrase in numbered Pink Floyd tracks and then find out what relations there are. It's difficult with improvised work. That is P2. P1 makes it even more difficult. For what do the numbers and i's stand for? Who knows? III) "King Crimson in Austria" Why now not? RF has mentioned it in his diary but everytime I look at the tour dates I see - nothing. Sad, but Munich is way up. IV) "Op Zop Too Wah" Who knows where to buy it and maybe send it to me? V) "The Fear Note" The Gates Of Paradise 7 min 23 Take a close listen. Best wishes Markus Alexander Gnad ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 08:20:57 -0500 From: Christopher Rhines Subject: Cigarettes and Ice Cream Hey...... I'm trying to find any information about a song called "Cigarettes and Ice Cream." Maybe this isn't the title, but these words are part of the lyrics at least. I'm trying to find the real name of the song and what album it is on. Thanks! ------------------------------------------------------ Christopher K. Rhines ------------------------------------------------------ Technical Services / University Libraries Virginia Polytechnic Institute & State University ------------------------------------------------------ 540-231-9255 crhines at vt dot edu ------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 09:37:14 -0500 From: "Pinke, Brian" Subject: Pre-Fripp soundscapes Not to belabor the point, but in addition to R. Murray Schafer's 1969 book "The new soundscape; a handbook for the modern music teacher" I happened to find several other (pre-Fripp) uses of this word, both in texts, as titles and the name of a studio in Alexandria. I believe that Mr. Fripp is the first to use it as a verb, similar to "guitaring," extending the idea found in "God is a Verb" to other areas of life. (Love is a verb, was one of the suggestions, and it seems crafty may be, too.) For the soundscape examples see below, otherwise excuse this waste of your time and skip to the next message. ---- Lifchitz, Max, 1948- Instrumental music. Selections Rhythmic soundscape : no. 1 ; Winter counterpoint ; Consorte ;Exceptional string quartet . Published/Produced: New York, N.Y. : CRI, p1985. Description: 1 sound disc : analog, 33 1/3 rpm, stereo. ; 12 in. Manufacturer's no.: SD 516 CRI ---- Fire / Czeslaw Milosz. [...] recorded at Soundscape Studio, Alexandria, Virginia on October 5, 1986. ---- London, Edwin. Quintets, trumpets (2), horn, trombone, tuba Brass quintet ; Psalm of these days II / Edwin London. Soundscape : for string quartet ; Soundscape : for piano / Lionel Nowak. New York, N.Y. : CRI, p1982. 1 sound disc : 33 1/3 rpm, stereo. ; 12 in. Manufacturer's no.: SD 470 CRI ----- Soundscape Published/Produced: Harriman, N.Y. : Spectrum, p1982. Description: 1 sound disc (47 min.) : 33 1/3 rpm, stereo. ; 12 in. Manufacturer's no.: SR-144 Spectrum Contents: Notturno / Robert Gibson (11:08) -- Marginal developments / Thomas DeLio (8:50) -- Chanson (5:29) ; B.P. : a melodrama (10:02) / Lawrence Moss -- Aeolus / Mark Wilson (10:33) ----- Dartmouth composers sound recording Published/Produced: Hanover, N.H. : Dartmouth College, c1981. Description: 1 sound disc (44 min.) : 33 1/3 rpm, stereo. ; 12 in. Manufacturer's no.: D-200 Dartmouth College Series: Music from Dartmouth Notes: Ursula Oppens, piano. The last 2 selections were realized in the Bergman Electronic Music Studio, Dartmouth College. The 1st 3 works are for piano; the 4th and 5th, for synthesizer. Notes by the composers on container. Contents: Hay una, mujer desaparecida / Christian Wolff (13 min., 7 sec.) -- Tender buttons (3 min., 12 sec.) ; Pterodactyl (7 min., 10 sec.) / Stephen Dembski -- In medias res / Jon Appleton (9 min., 46 sec.) -- Soundscape II / Mark Weltner (10 min., 34 sec.) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 13:04:58 -0500 (EST) From: Art Cohen Subject: Islands LP >This is my first posting to ET, so I figured I would make it a simple >question. >I was wondering if a vinal copy of the white cover the the album Islands >is >worth anything? I think I remember reading somewhere that this is rare, >and I was just wondering if it was true. I got it for 10 bucks at a flea >market, and I think it's an interesting alternative to the crab nebula >cover. I don't think this is particularly rare. I used to run into this album fairly often in used record stores in the early 80s. 10 bucks in very good (or mint) condition sounds about right. My apologies if this is a FAQ, but can anyone fill me in on why the album cover was changed (from the nebula to the "blotches") for the American release? --Art ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 13:23:07 -0500 From: John Ott Subject: Re: SABB > Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 17:09:40 -0500 > From: Brian Preston > Subject: Re: starless/TCOL/etc > > Reading ET recently made me think (again) where the term 'starless and bible > black' comes from (from where does it come?). It is a literaray allusion I > believe. Does anyone know? "The title is a phrase from Dylan Thomas, from 'Under Milkwood'." This is in the FAQ! later John ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 14:13:44 -0500 From: Warren Melnick Subject: Live in Mexico City, Japan Releases and bootlegging [Badly formed multipart message, contents not processed] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 11:53:30 -0800 From: "Scott Steele" Subject: KCCC 9; Earthbound and USA Got mine recently and am enjoying it thoroughly. The difference with this show is that they sound like all four of them are having fun - I've never heard that from this version of KC before. I sure wish I had been there! Jeremy, I don't know who owns the masters to Earthbound and USA. I have a soft spot in my heart for both of these records and I hope they both come out eventually. Meanwhile, I really enjoy The Great Deceiver and KCCC 9, Live at Summit Studios. - S. scottst at ohsu dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 15:01:47 EST From: Biffyshrew at aol dot com Subject: Re: starless Brian Preston wrote: >Reading ET recently made me think (again) where the term 'starless and bible >black' comes from (from where does it come?). It is a literaray allusion I >believe. Does anyone know? It is from the opening of _Under Milk Wood_ by Dylan Thomas. Get on down, Biffy the Elephant Shrew ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 20:49:10 -0000 From: "roger whittaker" Subject: 'Summit' KCCC CD [Badly formed multipart message, contents not processed] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 21:01:18 -0000 From: Simon Calkin Subject: Starless and Bible Black Re:Where does "Starless And Bible Black" come from? It's from "Under Milk Wood" by Dylan Thomas. Check out the Stan Tracey album "Music Inspired By Under Milk Wood" (1965,recently released on CD)...the title track is STUNNING. Simon Calkin Broadcast Engineering Broadcast Technology Resources, BBC Resources * Work: 0208 576 0910 * Fax: 0208 749 7853 * Room 4252 TV Centre, Wood Lane, London, W12 7RJ > * mailto:simon dot calkin at bbc dot co dot uk > * http://www.bbcresources.com > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 21:07:08 -0000 From: Simon Calkin Subject: correction! Gah...this shift work's rotting my brain.I meant to say that the track "Starless and Bible Black" on the Stan Tracey album was stunning (not as I typed).Please Mr.Moderator,edit my posting accordingly. Simon Calkin Broadcast Engineering Broadcast Technology Resources, BBC Resources * Work: 0208 576 0910 * Fax: 0208 749 7853 * Room 4252 TV Centre, Wood Lane, London, W12 7RJ > * mailto:simon dot calkin at bbc dot co dot uk > * http://www.bbcresources.com > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 15:15:46 -0600 From: "Lee Mckee" Subject: Fripp's influences [Badly formed multipart message, contents not processed] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 16:01:18 -0600 From: Todd Madson Subject: Follow-up to my Windows Media Player Experience My last message to ET detailed my downloading of the Windows Media Player v6.3 for Macintosh in order to play the Live in Mexico City concert by King Crimson. I was plagued with intermittent pauses, and sought out the advice of the BootlegTV individuals. They recommended downloading the Dinosaur file to see if it played the same way locally. Oddly enough, it did. They felt that perhaps my Mac was a little underpowered as the requirements for WMP 6.3 was to have a PPC 604 machine at 180 Mhz at minimum. Mine is a PPC 603EV machine at the same speed. I've got more than enough ram and am running a L2 cache of 512k. I have no problems with other players (Real, AudioActive etc.) that stream high fidelity audio and I am utilizing a 256k xDSL connection. My recommendation is if you are experiencing this problem try downloading Dinosaur and attempt to play it off the drive. My bandwidth before was good, but streamed off the drive it went through the roof. Still the irritating pauses. I'll attempt defragmenting my hard drive this weekend to see if I can speed up the I/O somewhat. Last I heard they were going to attempt to duplicate my setup to see if they could get the same problem to occur. They had mentioned one machine had done this interminably and then after a reboot it was fine. I have not had such luck. Sorry for the lack of KC content - however, I do feel this is an on-topic post since if Discipline Global Mobile desires to use this particular content distribution conduit it may prove problematic for some users as I know many users with less powerful systems than my own. My configuration: PPC 603 EV 180mhz, 80 megs of ram, 512k cache, 1.6 gig ide HD, 512M and 160M SCSI drives, LaCie SCSI CD burner, Epson PhotoEX printer. -Todd Madson Guitarist/Composer: Crash/Hydravian/Aliensporebomb ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 16:20:37 -0600 (CST) From: david craig Subject: Re: Mexico City for DOWNLOAD? I think that it's also worth emphasizing that bootlegtv has now made the concert less accessible to EVERYONE, not just users of OS's other than Windows. I am baffled as to what they hope to accomplish here. If you can't download it, which most home modem users could do (overnight, say), one's only option now is to stream to your home computer or listen at work. The latter is obviously not an option for most of us (never mind the question of how pleasant that experience would actually be), and the former is only a realistic option for home users with stable, high-bandwidth internet connections: ISDN, a cable modem, or whatever. I dunno where the bootlegtv guys live, but that ain't most of the country yet, kids. (I have no idea what the situation is outside the US.) Seems to me that bootlegtv has therefore restricted access to the concert, as a practical matter, to people who i) use Windows 9X [if you hopped successfully on the earlier download] ii) live in or near major metropolitan areas with widespread high-speed internet access iii) are wealthy enough to AFFORD such a high bandwidth internet connection And even then, to listen to the concert requires being at one's computer, hardly the listening environment most of us would favor, given a choice. King Crimson is not Britney Spears. The music requires a measure of attentivness to enjoy. I am utterly mystified what bootlegtv hopes to accomplish with this tease of a "release." Is it intended to be promotional, somehow? To generate interest and good will? Faith in the soundness of the technology, upon which to build confidence that when product is offered for money that it will be worth paying for? From my vantage, they are failing miserably on each and every one of these presumed aims. Presumably, this aims to be a business venture, which hopes to earn some money at some point. I see no logical aim in generating significant ill-will in a large, dedicated portion of your potential customer base, never mind restricting your potential pool of customers so drastically and arbitrarily from the outset. Almost every aspect of this I find capricious and irrational. They've done nothing to date that suggests to me that they are an enterprise I can trust, or would feel especially generous about giving my money to. (And streaming a King Crimson concert to my office is not a product I would pay for in the first place. Honestly, what good is that?) Of course I'm irritated that I can't listen in any reasonable way to a performance by one of my favorite bands. [How else would I be expected to feel, under the circumstances?] I understand that we still live in the stone age of the internet. But there's really nothing about this situation that makes any sense that I can see. Not for BootlegTV, and certainly not for us. David Craig ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 15:43:55 -0600 (CST) From: w7wilsonet15 at webtv dot net (R. Wilson) Subject: New Crimson secret dates? Hello Fellow E.T.er's, I understand King Crimson has commited to several dates at small Beer Clubs throughout south Alabama, Mississippi, and Texas,in addition to the Nashville Dates. Oh, sorry. I thought this was issue #481 I was adding to! I need my medication...FM Radiohead Ric! Love you all!!! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 19:08:39 EST From: Hocow at aol dot com Subject: Japan First and BLUE Nights and Creator Howdy, I just thought I would write in on the Japan situation. I recently read a very good explanation but I don't remember where. I beleive it was ET and it might have been Gary from Artist Workshop. The explanation was something to the effect that unlike most other markets, the Japanese pay large sums up front. Often the distribution deal with Japan underwrites the production of the US and Euro versions. I hope I got that right but that was the gist of it. Sorry I can't remember where I read this because it went into a great deal of depth and made the whole situation logical and palatable. It could also have been a Fripp diary. If you want to be the first kid on your block (unless you live on my block then you would be the second) to get BLUE Nights send Tony a fax. The last I heard his 800 number was down and it wasn't yet in the Papa Bear online catalogue. This 2cd set kicks ass. It is mostly material from the BLUE album but they really stretch and embellish all of it. There are also some wicked improvs. Tony has a ton of samples on the Papa Bear site. Go check it out. A bit pricey but well worth it. Papa bear is the fastest mail order I have dealt with. Everything I've ordered has come within 3 business days. CheKc it out. You'll be glad you did. The suspense is killing me. When is the Belew site going to have "I Had A Dream." I am dying to hear Adrian's take. I have a feeling he's pissed and I hope this doesn't have reprocussions on band morale down the line. If they include the song in their performance set it would be an extra incentive to pick up the next live cd. One other thing. While I do like it, I think everyone is going a bit gaga over "Creator" on the new club release. It's a good jumping off point for some nice jams but the song part isn't all that and a bag of chips. I haven't heard the original but it seems to me to be a case of a jazz musician who is a great instrumentalist taking an ill advised venture into cosmic lyrics. These things used to mar jazz albums all the time in the 80's. I used to always skip these tracks and think if only they would shut up and play. Sorry if I've offended everyone. There were whole Return toForever albums that were unlistenable because of preachy lyrics. Brad Wilmot ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 16:08:40 -0800 From: "Ehrcraft" Subject: Ian Anderson, on King Crimson....1971. [Badly formed multipart message, contents not processed] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 17:17:05 -0800 From: starless at uswest dot net Subject: Fripp/Summers video In regard to the question that was posed about the Fripp-Summers music video "I Advanced Masked", I believe this was a single music video released around the time of the album of the same name. I recall seeing the same video in the mid-80's and, fortunately, I had the wherewithal to tape it off of VH1 at the time. I believe it was broadcast fairly frequently during that time period on what used to be the Sunday night jazz show (mid to late 80s). Aside from that, I don't know much else, nor do I know if the video appears on a full length VHS release or not. I know this isn't much information but it might help put it in some chronological perspective. John ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 23:51:17 EST From: CCol542760 at aol dot com Subject: Starless and Bible Black Hello, answering Brian Preston's question, "Starless and Bible Black" is from "Under the Milkwood" by Dylan Thomas. It is a quote from the first page of the play, which evokes a mood like the beginning of the particular day the play is dealing with is the beginning of all times. I guess this is what the title of the improvisation on Nightwatch and SaBB is referring to. I don't have a copy handy, but I guess the phrase is "The sky was starless and bible black". Under the Milkwood is a radio play trying to capture the world in one day of a fictitious small English town - reading is definitely recommended. Best regards, Carsten Collatz ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 07:40:08 -0300 From: "cb" Subject: remove [Badly formed multipart message, contents not processed] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 04:58:37 -0800 From: "Joey Aguilera" Subject: Mexico Show: the downloadable issue [Badly formed multipart message, contents not processed] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 16:50:18 -0000 From: "Al Murray" Subject: 'starless and bible black' ........Is from the poetry of Dylan Thomas - Under Milk Wood. Cheers! Al P.S. Toby - can we kill the taping thing - please!?? [ Gotcha. -- Toby ] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 12:24:52 EST From: "Donnon Murray" Subject: Euro Tour Hello. I'm a 31 year old American student curently studying in the UK. My Grateful Dead ethics incline me towards watching live music grow and unfold over a tour. With that in mind I want to do multiple Crim Shows. Can anyone help me find tickets for Copenhagen or Hamburg? Also I'm looking for anyone who may wish to share accomodations in these cities to help defray expenses. I'd also be willing to buy a ticket for anyone who lives in these cities that can offer lodgings for a night or two. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 13:10:33 -0800 From: Lewis Southers Subject: Re: The construKCtion of light This is what lk said >Why does DGM offer this in Japan first and not worldwide for all fans at the >same time???????? So I buy TCOL in Japan for a lot of money und pay at a >later time I think only 1/2 of this money! That's >bull...... > If it's not worth it to you, don't do it. If it is worth it to you, do it and don't complain about it. Hell, I'm just happy an album is coming out at all. -Lewis There's more to hearing than meets the ear. -Robert Fripp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 14:59:52 -0800 From: "Darin Giammusso" Subject: DVD players I am looking to purchase a DVD player and want one that has all the "extra" features that will make it easy to take advantage of the KC DVD. I know some of you out there have one, so if you could help me out with some model numbers, I would appreciate it. I'm not looking for built-in Dolby Digital or DTS, just features (preferebly on the remote) that are worthwhile. Thanks! DG Get GobiVisto! Groups, event calendars, email, and more... Check it out at http://mail.gobi.com/ ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #647 ********************************