Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #645 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 645 Thursday, 16 March 2000 Today's Topics: GIG BIZ: Tickets to Nashville? KCCC #9 & Emerson/Hendrix Unknown Countries Re: Mexico City for DOWNLOAD? Re: bootlegs/audience tapes Bassists in Guitar Craft; Earthbound and USA BootlegTV slogan and trust Re: Live in Mexico on Mac = Travesty? The "Wanna start a prog band?" Forum has a *search* box! The light from Hell the term 'soundscape' Academy of Music NYC 11/24/71 KC & ... check this out The construKCtion of light ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.5b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 14:41:17 -0600 From: "Snyder" Subject: GIG BIZ: Tickets to Nashville? My name is Howard Snyder and I've been trying to get tickets to the Nashville shows, however The only place to get 'em is the faisons.com site and they don't have 'em yet. I'm in Chicago so it's no that easy to drop by the venue. If anyone has any information about how to get them, when are they selling them again on the website, etc, etc, anyone with extra tickets???, please send private e-mail to: snyder7 at onebox dot com Thanks "A thing of beauty is Joy forever" -John Keats -- H. Snyder snyder7 at onebox dot com - email (773) 377-5000 x6496 - voicemail/fax ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 18:03:08 -0500 (EST) From: "Weissenburger - Jeremy S." Subject: KCCC #9 & Emerson/Hendrix When we last read Elephant Talk, we found out that: >I read, I believe it was in an interview with Keith Emerson, that the >original idea prior to ELP was a band made up of Emerson, Lake, Hendrix >and Mitch Mitchel. This never happened due to contract and mangement >difficulties. It is rumoured that they did get together and jam and that >a tape of that jam still exsists. From an interview I've seen Emerson had said that when he sat down with Hendrix, Mitchell (I believe) was sitting there playing with a knife throughout the entire discussion to form the band, which freaked Keith out. AFAIK, no tape was made of them jamming. I do know that there exists a tape of Hendrix with some of the 1969 Crimso band, but I was told the quality is awful. >5. I still think DGM should consider the 11/24/71 recording from the >Academy of Music, NYC for KCCC release, if a suitable source can be >found. This performance peels paint off the walls like no other show >I've heard by this lineup. The dual mellotron buildup in "The Devil's >Triangle" is fearsome... if I'd been (headliner) Procol Harum, I >wouldn't have wanted to follow this onstage. And the version of >"Cirkus" in this show is, frankly, just bizarre. It's lugubrious and >fascinating all at once. I second this motion. This is probably my favorite recording of "Cirkus." I also like the silly ending to "The Sailor's Tale." I will say this for this era of Crimson: after hearing "The Sailor's Tale" from anywhere, it stays with me for the rest of the day. I think that that's probably one of the finest things you can say about a band: that their music stays with you for a good long time. --Jeremy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 19:31:20 PST From: "Michael Irish" Subject: Unknown Countries I've been reading with interest the lengthy reviews regarding the last King Crimson Collector's Club release, "Live at Summit Studios." As so much as has been written to date, all I can add is that I completely love it. I found the retake here on Groon fascinating, moving from Robert's opening figures from the recording with Michael and Peter Giles, an incandescent trio, to extended improvisations by Mel Collins and Ian Wallace. Ian writes abouth Mel's Coltrane-influenced sax, collaborated by the disc I'm listening to now, "John Coltrane Live at the Village Vangaurd Again!" Of the unfamilar numbers I most enjoy the finishing "The Creator Has a Master Plan," where Boz's voice hits the groove. I come away from Summit Studios with the greatest respect for Mel Collins and Ian Wallace. I have Ian's CD, "Take A Train," but I'm curious as to what Mel Collins has been doing since the sessions for "Red." I feel that, along with "Jacksonville," "The Beat Club," "Live at Cap D'Agde," "On Broadway," and "The Roar of P4," that "Live at Summit Studios is one of the best Collector's Club editions, a great resevoir of music that I'm happy to have heard, and continue to hear, beginning with the initial "Marquee" release. Michael Irish ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 00:53:33 EST From: DanKirkd at aol dot com Subject: Re: Mexico City for DOWNLOAD? In ET #642 david craig writes: > Are there plans to encode the Mexico City concert for DOWNLOAD instead > of streaming? Ummm... the concert is ONLY available as a download. Either way, best to contact the BTV folks directly with your suggestions. Contact info is listed at their site (www.bootlegtv.com). Dan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 10:25:28 -0600 From: William Jenks Subject: Re: bootlegs/audience tapes Ted White wrote, in part: >What I find interesting about all this discussion of the >pros and cons of bootlegging is the gray middle area. And >in that area Fripp has taken advantage of bootlegs and >"audience tapes." He seems to approve the latter to some >extent (his comments on the early "audience tapes" passed on >to him), and he has been quite willing to make use of them >when they are 20 to 30 years old. I should begin by confessing my bias: I don't understand why anyone feels why they have a "right" to record an event they are attending. My understanding is that (apart from all the high-falutin-artist-moment talk) all you get when you buy a ticket is a license to *attend* --- all other rights to the performance remain with the performers (or at least not with the audience). To record is to steal. In principle, I don't see how taping a concert is much different than video taping a play. Having said that, I don't see any ambiguity about Fripp or other musicians taking advantage of recordings that were made by audience members. In a sense, it's just Fripp (or whomever) marketing 'stolen property' that has been returned. Just because Fripp didn't make the original recording doesn't mean he doesn't have the right to profit by it. Finally, to all the arguments that the people who buy bootlegs are dedicated fans...or that people couldn't afford to go to the concerts or were too young or whatever... Come on guys, all of these are 'justifications' for trading in stolen goods. Instead of doing that, wouldn't it be better to spend all that energy instead on convincing the artists to take a more Grateful Dead-like approach to the performance rights? William Jenks And as long as you're asking, I don't trade in mp3s, duplicate conventional CDs/tapes for friends, or any of that nonsense, either. :-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 10:58:13 -0800 From: "Scott Steele" Subject: Bassists in Guitar Craft; Earthbound and USA >Yes that's right, I'm a bass player and I am hoping that I am not exempt from the "guitar craft". If so...sorry for wasting time and space, if not...any information of it's possibilites would be greatly appreciated. I think it would be a good thing for a bass player to do. When you watch CGT closely you see that Paul Richards plays a lot of bass parts. Also, Trey Gunn is a Crafty. Bass players could really benefit from the Guitar Craft tuning too. >If Fripp/DGM has decided not to release the album because they can get away with releasing the tracks on the Club, fine. Just say so and give those waiting for the album some closure, OK? Pure speculation on my part, but maybe the reason that "replacement" product has come out is that DGM doesn't own the masters to either Earthbound or USA. - S. np: Gone Orchestra, the Utopian Barge Trip scottst at ohsu dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 13:17:10 PST From: "Nomad Stem" Subject: BootlegTV slogan and trust I was browsing through older DGM Guestbook entries and saw one by Nicholas Croft (nick at nicholascroft dot com) dated March 4: "It is with interest that I read the new Bootleg TV promotional screen animation. While I hope to listen to works presented through this new venue, I feel partly insulted by the 'trust the music' slogan. "Perhaps, because any worthwhile system of philosophy contains the seeds of it's own contradiction, it is also with interest that I note that the DGM catalog contains the Talking Heads Title: 'Fear of Music'. "Sometimes, fear or terror is an appropriate response to a work of art( and the spirit that animates it ) "Trust, in spite of the commitment of particular musicians, seems an inappropriate response to music born of a great spiritual vitality. That vitality will always be interpreted in countless ways, by various individuals. So, what ( who ) is it that we are to trust? All we really have to relate to are humans that are 'inspired' in some way. The 'inspiring' spirit cannot effectively protect us, it seems to me." One of the things I have to agree with is the pretentiousness of the slogan. After all, this is a commercial venture, and money coming in to seed the company is coming from venture capitalists that diary entries by BTV CEO Steve Ball paint in a bleak light. I may be willing to trust DGM, based on a track record, but as long as BTV is being funded by such people it will have to cater to such people. If a decision has to be made to make money then I suspect this business will, like any other, be subject to making that decision, even if customer trust might suffer. Trusting music falls by the way-side. It happens, and desperate start-ups can't be blamed for such things. The other thing that gets to me is the Flash introduction to the new BTV website. Am I the only one here who doesn't like the sensationalism? One nice thing about the DGM website is that although it is in the sales business one doesn't come away feeling like product is being pushed at you. The whole Flash intro smells of selling product. It is like the difference between Bradley and Gore. Trust versus sales pitch. It remains to be seen how friendly the BTV venture feels when my audio stream fails mid-concert. How hard will it be to get my money back when that happens (like the recent NYExpo Fripp keynote webcast made it all too plain that it can happen)? Will there be a forum we can ask questions in and receive answers in like the DGM Guestbook? Finally, a question to others who downloaded the Live in Mexico City audio from the original site: has anyone ever received an email from the mailing list we were supposedly signing up for? I haven't. I really don't want to download the audio again, but it appears that's the only way to get on the mailing list now if the old one is not being used. Can't I just join the mailing list? Besides, I thought I was already on it. I'm interested in other ETers thoughts on these topics. Nomad Nomad ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 17:32:36 -0800 From: Taylor Sherman Subject: Re: Live in Mexico on Mac = Travesty? Um, did you try downloading the whole file and playing it locally? That's the best thing to do anyways, because then you get to listen to it offline as much as you want. . . > Currently, I am using a machine in a 256k DSL connection and find that if > I attempt to listen to the performance, I am greeted with a grating, > horrendous effect - several seconds of music, a pause, then several > seconds of music. > Thanks for any recommendations you may be able to provide - it sounds > like an interesting show, I just can't seem to listen to it without > these annoying, 1-2 second pauses littering the audio. > > -Todd > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 03:18:29 GMT From: "michael m." Subject: The "Wanna start a prog band?" Forum has a *search* box! For anyone that has no idea of what this is all about, that forum's main purpose is to get together musicians from all over the world, people who want to form a prog band. Bands that are looking for musicians post messages there too. The thing is, I just added a search box on the message board. People had complaints for the load of messages but I could not remove any message, they are all very important. My final thought was to improve the board with an engine which searches all the messages. Please email me with any suggestions regarding the forum, - MichaelM To visit the prog musicians forum click here: http://www.progmetal.net/musicians ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 20:15:37 PST From: "John Montoya" Subject: The light from Hell I was there as a witness. This was a most ungodly and unnerving sacrilege to a Guitar Craft course. After that came the feverish red nightmares!!What next!! Stereo portable amplifiers!!! Chords from Hell !!!!!! All who hear my words-beware!! John The Bass was introduced to Guitar Craft by The Hellboys in the early 90's. All are welcomed, go into the light. The Hellboys ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 13:13:01 +0100 From: robert turner Subject: the term 'soundscape' At 15:02:58 [-0600] on 11 03 2000, "Les Heifner" wrote: >are [there] any legal implications as to whether or not I can >dub myself a "soundcapist," >who perfroms "soundscapes." Does anyone know? i don't know for certain, but i imagine it has about the same legal implications as calling yourself a musician. in any case, i'm pretty certain that fripp is not the first to use the term "soundscape." it may be that the person who coined this term is a composer named r. murray schafer. i first came across the term is his writings. from the library of congress: Author: Schafer, R. Murray. Title: The new soundscape; a handbook for the modern music teacher [by] R. Murray Schafer. Published: Don Mills, Ont., BMI Canada, 1969. LC Call No.: MT6.S2825N5 note the date! schafer's writings on music are insightful and very thought-provoking. his book catalogue can be found at: http://www.patria.org/arcana/ArcanaB.html concerning the actual term 'soundscapist', i've heard of a landscaper and a landscape architect, but i've never heard of a landscapist. i have heard of an escapist, though. your term sounds pretty original from this point of view. if you're taking votes, mine is "fly with it." thanks for the post, les; it prompted me to find schafer on the web. i'm happy to know that his works are available. cheers, robert ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 14:47:08 EST From: MongoBoy at aol dot com Subject: Academy of Music NYC 11/24/71 In ET 643, Steve Smith > I still think DGM should consider the 11/24/71 recording from the > Academy of Music, NYC for KCCC release, if a suitable source can be > found. This performance peels paint off the walls like no other show > I've heard by this lineup. The dual mellotron buildup in "The Devil's > Triangle" is fearsome...(snip) And the version of > "Cirkus" in this show is, frankly, just bizarre. Well, anything is possible and I think there's a real chance here. Sometime last year one of our ET readers posted an offer to give away his cd boot of this show (along with another from the '72-73 era KC) to the first responder. Needless to say I wasn't first, and neither was Fripp. He claims Fripp responded to his offer but was No. 3. This fellow (sorry I've forgotten your name, friend) was kind enough to make copies for me on cassette and maybe did the same for RF. Really good sounding boots and they do shred wallpaper like no other. Looking forward to KCCC 10 & 11! Mongo ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 16:10:49 -0800 From: "Darin Giammusso" Subject: KC & ... So who is this Sunshine Band anyway? Y'know, "KC & the Sunshine Band". Where are the lost tapes of this incarnation? :) DG ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 10:34:17 CST From: "matte kudasai" Subject: check this out hey there fellow crimheads. i just recently saw a band over the weekend that is based out of St. Louis called "Hotel Faux Pas". the band consists of four guys who played with such finesse i thought they where a national touring act until i talked to them after the show. there songwriting style is very Belewesque and even the lead guitar wore a Three of a Perfect pair T-Shirt and among his musical equipment he used a Roland JC120 and a GR30. they had a very full sound and put on a spectacular show. i urge you to check out there website at: WWW.hotelfauxpas.com and see these guys live whenever you get the chance. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 00:52:15 +0100 From: lk Subject: The construKCtion of light The ConstruKCtion of Light(PCCY-01455) will be released in Japan on April 19, 2000 The official new King Crimson album from DGM: ProzaKC Blues (5:26) The ConstruKCtion of Light (8:39) Frying Pan (6:50) FraKCtured (9:05) Oyster Soup (6:20) Lark's Toungues in Aspic Part IV (12:56) Heaven and Earth (7:45) Why does DGM offer this in Japan first and not worldwide for all fans at the same time???????? So I buy TCOL in Japan for a lot of money und pay at a later time I think only 1/2 of this money! That's bull...... For a chat with Robert fripp look at: http://eden.vmg.co.uk/talk/kingcrimson/ Lothar www.elephant-song.de starless at elephant-song dot de ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #645 ********************************