Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #642 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 642 Friday, 10 March 2000 Today's Topics: GIG BIZ: An extra ticket available for each Nashville show TV Fripp Waterburg and Waterbury, 1973 Re: Bootlegs Collector's Club 9 Robert Fripp at the NY Music & Internet Expo Ghost Dance; Brighton Oct 71; Red; Nico; Collectors' Club Mexico City for DOWNLOAD? Re: John Miller This is why taping is wrong. Re: Bootlegging and KC CC#9 (The Law of Maximum Distress part 3?) Fripp & ELP Regarding our right to tape. How I Became A Professional Musician Interview 1985 trey gunn's gear setup... a couple of comments Musicians ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.5b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 09:06:48 -0500 From: David Subject: GIG BIZ: An extra ticket available for each Nashville show Dear Elephant Talkers, My name is David. I am in possession of three extra tickets for the KC shows in Nashville: one ticket per show. If you live in Montreal, and you are male or female, and you would like to come to the show with me, please email me privately at treker at total dot net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 21:19:31 GMT From: "Jo Horne" Subject: TV Fripp Hi, Mike Dennis wrote "The TV appearance of Robert Fripp in the UK was not the Old Grey Whistle Test, but a half hour special. The presenter was Anne Nightingale, the first female DJ on a national radio station - Radio 1. I know as I have a tape of the soundtrack (pre video days!)" I recorded this TV programme on old format Phillips tape when it was repeated about 17 years ago. Needless to say the machine is long dead and the tapes lost in the realms of "studentdom". Does anyone have a copy on VHS PAL ? Thanks Jo Horne ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 19:00:32 -0500 From: "Alexander Domrin" Subject: Waterburg and Waterbury, 1973 Hello everybody: I wonder which of these dates and venues is correct: 1973/05/06, Palace Theater, Waterbury (Live Larks CD, Moonchild Records 930809) and 1973/05/16, Palace Theater, Waterburg (Halfcut Diamond CD, Highland HL160/61#KCB) ? Or both? Thanks! Alex ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 19:17:00 -0500 From: Ted White Subject: Re: Bootlegs In ET 640, CD sez: "I was struck by the self righteous tone of many of the pro bootleg contingent weighing in against Fripp's point of view in the last ET. Let me get this straight---Fripp's only basis for his objecting to bootlegs is that he isn't getting his 'piece of the action' (I paraphrase, but not liberally)? All of his strenuous and explicit arguments against bootlegging are completely disingenuous, and set up primarily to foil the (self) interests of his most ardent 'fans'?" What I find interesting about all this discussion of the pros and cons of bootlegging is the gray middle area. And in that area Fripp has taken advantage of bootlegs and "audience tapes." He seems to approve the latter to some extent (his comments on the early "audience tapes" passed on to him), and he has been quite willing to make use of them when they are 20 to 30 years old. While bootleg albums, made up, pressed and packaged for some form of sale, are clearly taking advantage of the artists in question, and are illegally profiting at the artists' expense, audience tapes which are traded and duped but never sold occupy a cloudier position. Legally, I suspect they fall into "private use" clauses (the sort which allow us to put our albums on tapes, or record TV shows), since they are without any profit. Clearly these recordings, whatever their province, become historically important over time. And it is this level of importance which Fripp has made use of in order to compile EPITAPH and at least one CC release (MARQUEE CLUB). Better an illegally-made document of these events than no documentation at all. It's amazing how far we've come technically in 30 or so years. In 1969 people took small, mono cassette recorders into shows, recording with speech-quality built-in mics, with obvious compression (which pumps up the ambient noise when no stronger signal is occurring) and considerable distortion (some of it from overloading the recorder, some of it from bad acoustics/recording location). Now even the analog recorders are much better, and some people are using DAT. Combine that with a CDR and you have a new level of private-circulation "audience tapes." It's clear that as long as the technology exists and people want to do it, audience recordings will continue to be made. The only real question is how we accommodate ourselves to it. My suggestion: Fripp should stop prohibiting audience recording, but allow it *only* if he receives a copy of all tapes made (and with the proviso that none will be sold as boots). --Ted White (aka Dr Progresso); DC-ET #6 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 23:44:26 -0500 From: Rob McMonigal Subject: Collector's Club 9 Haven't posted to ETalk in some time, but I wanted to say a few things on CC9. First off, this has greatly improved my impression of the Boz-era Crimson work. Having heard both Club releases, I have to say that Ian Wallace is correct in saying that the Boz band wasn't being judged on its best material. The sound quality is excellent, and the music shows a distinct jazzy style that King Crimson has never really had again. If this band had stayed together, Crimso might have sounded more like BLUE than Thrak. The jams are of a high quality, but of a different style than, say, those of the later 70s Crim. I do have to disagree with Ian on one thing. I happen to prefer this version of Schizoid Man to the one on CC 2. :) Well, those are my 2 cents, which added to the 16 for the CD have come out to a pretty good value! **************************************************************************** Rob McMonigal rbmst12 at imap dot pitt dot edu Serving an obscure purpose for over 22 years! Leader of the Loyal Opposition http://trebro.tripod.com/Main/index.html **************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 01:59:42 -0500 From: txc at echonyc dot com Subject: Robert Fripp at the NY Music & Internet Expo I found out about the event only by reading Robert's diary. It took a bit of sleuthing to figure out where and when it was happening, and quite a lot of frustration to find out how much tickets cost. However, as I am deep in the throes of Bruford/KC/Fripp worship (yes, I say!) I hightailed it over to the New Yorker Hotel. I made it in time to see Chuck D. of Public Enemy and 3 ex-Talking Heads (Jerry, Tina, and Chris) and others speaking on an artists' panel. Then followed two other speakers and a panel of copyright lawyers who unfortunately ate up a large chunk of Robert's speaking time. Robert wore a dark collarless tunic and vest so he was unmistakable when he came into the room to view some of the other speakers. Finally, when the goddamn lawyers split, he began by allowing people to take pictures of him while he closed his eyes and the flashes went off in rapid succession. I yanked out my camera and managed to get a shot but the microphone was in the way. I won't try to paraphrase his brief talk, but he did utter the words "Great ta-ta's in the 3rd row" and then pointed into the audience. (I was in the 2nd row so I didn't feel I should whip my head around in the direction he was pointing.) He also looked at his watch frequently and joked about the allotted time. When he opened the floor to (burning) questions he was greeted with both "What is the name of your company?" (not Digital Global Mobile as listed in the program!) and "How did you write 21CSM?" so it was clear there was a varied spectrum of KC and non-KC fans present, although all were attentive, appreciative, and welcoming as he mentioned. He was corralled by a number of people afterwards, most of whom seemed to want to give him a CD of their music for distribution by DGM. While I have not read all of the autograph discussion carefully, I will say that I did ask Robert for an autograph and he declined my request. I knew it was unlikely since he turned down another guy who proferred a tiny notebook for a signature, although the woman in front of me claimed she had a "toilet paper museum" and Robert signed her scrap of toilet tissue. After Robert declined to sign my video of Live In Japan I offered some vague words of appreciation as he dodged me and worked his way out of the room, still trailed by others. I did not shout, "Dammit, Adrian gave me HIS autograph!" (after a Bears show at the Palace many years ago; it turns out we have a mutual friend) nor did I go home and smash all my Fripp stuff but keep all of my Bruford stuff. Perhaps someday I will get his autograph, perhaps not. Nevertheless the chance to see Robert in person and bask in his magical, mystical, superhuman, godlike aura (wait, that doesn't sound sufficiently worshipful) some 17 years after the last time I heard him speak in Berkeley CA was well worth the effort. TXC ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 08:57:31 -0800 From: "Scott Steele" Subject: Ghost Dance; Brighton Oct 71; Red; Nico; Collectors' Club >Michael Giles, Jamie Muir, David Cunningham/Ghost Dance - This is a very enjoyable album. >What would be nice now would be a Collectors' Club release of this band prior to the Jan 72 breakup. A tape of Brighton 16/10/71 exists, and is the full show, but the quality of the sonics is worse that the Marquee 69 show. sadly. That is indeed sad. If it's beyond Singleton, it's pretty far gone. >(I can only imagine "Red" with PM pulling out some real interesting samples). I don't think we're going to get any of the old hits on this tour, do you? >then I bravely asked....a picture Fripp...I wont use the flash? he smiled and put his arm around Nico...I took the flashless photo...and he said "Better do one with a flash to be sure!"...so I did...Nico was impressed......and so was I That's a hell of a story, lady. Nice photo too. Can you talk more about what Fripp said about groupies to you? Thanks to all for posting about the next Collectors' Club release. I look forward to it with great anticipation. - S. scottst at ohsu dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 12:21:49 -0600 (CST) From: david craig Subject: Mexico City for DOWNLOAD? *Sigh* ... Nice try, but we're not quite there yet. (Why, oh why, the proprietary M$ .wma format? Of course, we've already had THAT discussion....) Are there plans to encode the Mexico City concert for DOWNLOAD instead of streaming? Listening to King Crimson sitting in front of my computer at work is just not going to fly, and I think we all know that unless you have a cable modem (and even with...), internet streaming just ain't yet quite ready for prime-time -- certainly not for an entire concert. David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 20:43:50 -0000 From: "Lee Fletcher" Subject: Re: John Miller Adam Tuckerman wrote :- > I was wondering if anyone had any information on John Miller... > Does anyone know what he's up to, or where he dwells, or any other > relevant information concerning him? Born in London, (1931) John moved to Cornwall (UK) to paint in 1958 where he still resides. The David Messum Gallery (London) have been exhibiting John's work (almost) annually since 1981. Until recently commercial prints of John's work were quite scarce. However, a series of paintings from his 1997 exhibition have become widely available in the UK, in the form of posters, prints, and postcards. John has written an autobiography (Leave Tomorrow Behind,) which was published as a signed limited-edition only. Other publications include Sketchbook of Cornwall, and Seaside Sketchbook, which feature rather more traditional illustrations than those used on the Soundscapes CDs. Both are probably out of print now. In December 1997 Robert Fripp performed Soundscapes at Newlyn Church (Cornwall) in the presence of a selection John Miller paintings. The performance raised money for a local charity. Hope that this helps. Regards, Lee Fletcher http://www.waterleat.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 16:53:20 -0500 From: Bob Pascarella Subject: This is why taping is wrong. In response to the outrageous post submitted by Chris Calabrese on his personal approach and reasons behind taping shows, I would like to comment. Chris, you may feel that it is your right to tape regardless of the artists wishes. You may feel that because it is easy to get away with, that it is acceptable. You may also argue that in many instances, the artists are unaware of you. But your arguments are juvenile and insensitive to the very thing that you are admiring. Just because you are a clever thief, does not mean that your actions are not impacting the artist. You have somehow realized the difference between taping and selling and choose not to sell, but then applaud the individuals that do sell these tapes. I'm sorry to say this, but you represent the very definition of this problem. Why should your appreciation of music be so one-sided? If you have enough sense to appreciate this music, then why can't you appreciate the wishes of these artists? Is this how you conduct yourself in other aspects of your life? If I were to invite you to my home, would you feel obliged to steal objects from me on the rationale that I will not be effected by the loss? It does not require a degree in rocket science to see why artist do not condone taping. It detracts from sales, disrupts distribution, dilutes the artist's vision of how the music is presented to the public and mostly, violates their creativity. If artists can respect you to the degree of producing music that you enjoy, you can respect them by adhering to their wishes at shows. 2 way street..Right? Bob Pascarella Artist/Producer ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 05:03:01 -0800 From: "WK" Subject: Re: Bootlegging and KC [Badly formed multipart message, contents not processed] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 07:39:39 -0700 From: Bill Lantz Subject: CC#9 (The Law of Maximum Distress part 3?) I agree with some other posts to date, this is my favorite Club release so far, and I've enjoyed them all. How lucky are we? Having had a tape of this radio show for many years, and having always wondered what a good copy would sound like, I was really happy to see that the reels were apparently rolling for the band that evening too. This is a different recording, the FM broadcast sounded different, the onstage mics were way more up front on the broadcast and the music was sadly overmodulated at times. But this recording is wonderful. Gone is Robert's warning on the possible harmfulness of Pepsi, the sponsor that evening (who pushed the edit button this time!) and Ian's synth(VCS3?) sounds during his drum solo, quite thankfully. Also snipped were a mere few seconds prior to Cadence while Robert tuned up. Here for the first time is the very interesting closing song, The Creator Has a Master Plan and the ensuing jam. And during that jam, the Law Of Maximum Distress prevails and the recording cuts during Robert's introduction of the riff from Lark's Tounges in Aspic pt.1 that somehow he pulled out a blues jam. By the time a new reel gets loaded, we're already headed back to the closing verse. Thank you DGM for this incredible release, looking forward to Central Park. Bill ------------------------------ Date: 9 Mar 00 15:59:47 EST From: James Dusewicz Subject: Fripp & ELP In Pete Frame's book of Rock 'n' Roll Trees, it is mentioned that Gregg Lake and Keith Emerson hatched the idea for ELP during King Crimson's last performance at the Fillmore East. Apparently, The Nice was the opening act. Once Robert Fripp had heard that Gregg Lake was thinking of forming a group with Keith Emerson, Fripp offered his service to Keith Emerson, also. Emerson refused. Apparently he did not wish to form another group with a guitarist involved. Hendrix also was interested in joining ELP and offered his services too. jim campaigner at usa dot net James Dusewicz Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 20:28:14 EST From: NotoriousAWOL at aol dot com Subject: Regarding our right to tape. I view a concert as a special "musical event". Especially a Crimson concert. The price of my ticket is the price of entry, nothing more. I am still a guest at the event. The hosts, both band and venue request certain decorum of the guests. One of these requests is , to please not tape or photograph the show , but just enjoy the experience as it happens. As a guest, I feel if I don't respect this simple and understandable request I'm quite the jerk. I bought some bootlegs way back when, but hey, grow up! We have the Club! Bootleg TV's coming! Be civil or don't go to the shows. Hope to see you there. TV's coming! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 22:00:37 EST From: CPFIREZINE at aol dot com Subject: How I Became A Professional Musician Interview 1985 My name is Chris Palladino. Last summer my good friend and sometime collaborator Mark Garland sent me a funny message regarding the Fripp interview , dubbed by Robert the "How I Became A Professional Musician" interview. When one recently came up for bidding on E-Bay, I checked it out, as this was the interview that I did with Robert in 1985 at Claymont Court for my radio show, Radio Oz, on WARX -FM. Mark Garland recorded the conversation, and he and I delivered the master cassette to Robert a few days later, as he had phoned me and asked if he could release it after it had aired. I was thrilled, of course. For whatever reason, I never heard another word about it until the summer of 1999. As it turns out, it was released. Apparently, tapes of it were sold during the 1989 Guitar Craft Seminars in Charles Town, WVA. I trust it brought some money in for the seminars and I feel very good about that, although it would have been nice to have gotten one for myself and that my name had actually appeared on it. You see, the tapes were mislabeled as "Interview by Mark Garland". Mark was very much a part of the project and Radio Oz, and it seems funny now that he was credited. I can still recall our marathon editing session for the radio show. After 2 1/2 years on the air, we were cancelled that week and the Fripp interview, originally scheduled for the following weeks program, was our swansong. Having said all that, I am happy to announce that I am now making the original full length interview available on CD for $20. The version released in 1989 was 37 minutes long. The new version is over an hour long and it covers more of the Fripp / Crimson story as it was in 1985. It happened in front of the students at the Fourth Guitar Craft Course. Fripp is in a very good mood throughout and seemed to enjoy regaling the gathered pupils with his stories. Feel free to E-mail inquiries to me. Copies can be purchased with check or money order at the following adress. Firezine Productions PO Box 585 Hagerstown, MD 21741-0585 USA ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 00:11:18 -0500 From: Adam Subject: trey gunn's gear setup... hey there, adam from the guitar geek website here. we just posted trey gunn's onstage gear setup on the guitar geek website and thought it would be of interest to a few of you crimson gear -heads out there. the url is : http://www.guitargeek.com thanks, adam - guitar geek website ps:we are still working on getting robert & adrian's setups - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Guitar Geek Website! - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - "the worlds' largest collection of your favorite guitarist's stage and studio setups" - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - http://www.guitargeek.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 08:59:06 EST From: Elfinster at aol dot com Subject: a couple of comments 1. robert fripp has contributed a guitar intro for maria gabriela epumer second album, "perfume." m.g.epumer is an argentine guitarist who, besides having her own band plays guitar in charly garcia's band (perhaps the most famous "rock star" in argentina), and has contributed with "los gauchos alemanes" and kabusachi (from "los gauchos alemanes") among others. you may want to check her out. 2. there's a factual mistake on the notes of the k.c. collector's club number 9 (live at summit studios). ian wallace writes "...it is written around a spanish guitar piece called a 'tarantella' that robert showed me...." there is no such thing as a spanish tarantella. tarantella is a musical form from souther italy. it's a danceable form that gets its name from the fact that folks believed that if you were bitten by a tarantula (hence its name) you would start dancing frantically. the tarantella mimics the alleged movements of the folks bitten by the infamous spider. 3. if anyone can send me info/instructions on how to deal with the mexico download for a mac. my computer skills are highly limited--which may explain my difficulties with the issue. if someone could burn a cd for me, that would also be an option. [please, email privately around this point. thanks] peace, carlos schroder ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 13:15:00 -0500 From: "BELONIS, KONSTANTINOS" Subject: Musicians I was just curious. Given that many participants in this forum describe themselves as musicians I was wondering if they were actually performing musicians or if they were of the bedroom/basement type i.e. I have heard Neal Peart of Rush described as the patron saint of basement drummers and I thought that the members of King Crimson might serve in a similar purpose. ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #642 ********************************