Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #638 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 638 Saturday, 26 February 2000 Today's Topics: why not to tape Re: 2,500 years of misinformation... "Discipline" midi file Mastica Bootlegs; Dixie Dregs; 3/22/74 ORTF TV show Great Deceiver Boxset Nightwatch Can anybody help me? Nightwatch Live P3 Crimson Nashville ticket UK reunion, Qango May KC shows in Nashville...request for info Possible Futures ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.5b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 12:05:13 PST From: "Dick Ross" Subject: why not to tape ET, Now that King Crimson are about to take to the road again there is likely to be more discussion of taping and Fripp's stance of not allowing it at a KC show. If you are into taping I ask you to consider what Fripp's motivation is for not giving you consent to tape a live performance of King Crimson. I have a little insight into this because about a year ago I attended a panel discussion on boot legging that Fripp participated in as a panel member here in Austin for South by South-west. Seven speakers sat on the panel with various points of view on boot legging. All agreed that the selling of boot leg tapes was wrong because it rips off the artist. Some stated that taping was good for the artist because it promoted the artist and created a demand for his work, a good way to jump-start a career. Fripp stated, and I paraphrase, that what interested him as a performer was the relationship between the performer and the audience. That this event should not be reduced to a commercial event. Although it exists in a matrix of a commercial event, it is something much more than that. In this event the audience plays a major roll. The band is the father, the audience is the mother and the music is the child being born. All being present together. Fripp talked of coming home and embracing his wife. He would rather be in the moment of that embrace than have a tape of that embrace to look at. Trying to capture that embrace on tape does not allow him to be fully in the moment of that embrace. Looking at the tape does not come close to being in the embrace. Compassion is Fripp's motivation, compassion for the musical event. Playing music for people to hear without distractions in the way. Being in the moment of that embrace. I recently had the pleasure of seeing The California Guitar Trio at the Cactus Cafe. What a joy it was! The collective attention of the crowd held me. The band more relaxed and powerful than ever. And the moments of silence... a bridge to cross to be right there with them! So to get the mast out of a show and to contribute the most to a show leave the tape at home and bring your ears and fully be there in the moment. You will be appreciated. and you will enjoy the show more Dick Ross. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 13:37:12 -0800 From: Ken Stuart Subject: Re: 2,500 years of misinformation... Hello, First I should say that I have taped the aforementioned "PBS Frontline - Apocalypse" program, but have not yet gotten around to viewing it. With that disclaimer, I wanted to point out that my experience is that less than half of the information presented on PBS is accurate, and less than an quarter of the information presented on Frontline is accurate. Mention was made of the "misinformation" that is corrected in this program - but how do you know which is the "misinformation" - the program or what is purports to correct? If you are "learning", you might want to read the novel "1984"... -- Cheers, Ken kstuart at jps dot net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 17:19:49 +0000 From: Bobby Marcum Subject: "Discipline" midi file I am a Mac user with Cubase VST. I have downloaded a Midi file of "Discipline", how do i open it, and how is it intended to be used. Thanks...Bobby. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 17:26:10 -0600 From: James A Hogard Subject: Mastica Any Crimheads who'll be down here in Austin for SXSW, you must see Mastica. You will kick yourself if you don't. Honest. Hogard ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 17:00:33 -0800 From: "Scott Steele" Subject: Bootlegs; Dixie Dregs; 3/22/74 ORTF TV show >I am guilty of buying bootlegs myself so I have no right to judge the action. I just don't think this is the forum for it. Bravo Brad Re: Dixie Dregs' California Screamin' >This outing struck me as more fusiony than I remember other Dregs efforts being. I was disappointed in the lack of good liner notes, no DGM quality here and in the version of Zappa's "Peaches en Regalia," which zooms by in under 3:50 in never really tackles the signature melody line the way some of Zappa's better bands did. I on the other hand love this version of Peaches, he really takes advantage of the two guitar/two violin/two bass/one keyboardist lineup and makes a huge statement with it. Can't be too much shorter than the original can it? >If the daisy chain were big enough, we could make KC boots an unattractive financial proposition for the bootleggers... (maybe) This doesn't answer the issue of putting cash into the pockets of the members of the incarnation of KC that was the subject of the bootleg... maybe we could just all send Robert a buck or two on our own -- kind of like musical shareware... It also doesn't address the quality control that Fripp/Singleton et al have put into the KCCC releases - these are as good as they are going to sound, whereas the original bootlegger is probably trying to catch a cyclone in a peach basket, especially anything they recorded before 1995 technology. >Somedays I just don't know why he puts up with us... ;^) Well, he doesn't. ;) >Is that true? The March 22, 1974 ORTF TV show? Old Crimson official video, at last? Night Watch, Lament, Starless? Yupeee! Fripp says that not only do they sound like shit, they also look like shit. Too bad it's not in Smell-o-vision. - S. scottst at ohsu dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 06:37:54 -0500 From: "Kiffmeyer" Subject: Great Deceiver Boxset If anyone is interested, I found a sealed copy of the Great Deceiver set at my local music store (Charlotte, NC). They will not do mail order, but I could be pursuaded to make an arrangement if interested. Price is 59.00+tax+shipping. Please email me offline at fritzk at conninc dot com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 06:40:42 -0500 From: "Kiffmeyer" Subject: Nightwatch The version of "Easy Money", that appears on The Nightwatch CD set, does have the "minor" alternative lyrics, FWIW. Thanks - Fritz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 18:24:02 -0600 From: jgossard at natalia dot k12 dot tx dot us (Jason Gossard) Subject: Can anybody help me? Boo hoo...My car got broken into recently, and more fool me, I had my copy of the King Crimson Collector's Club Release #4 in there....Discipline is not offering extra copies, right?....If this is the case, is there anyone out there who, for some strange, inexplicable reason, does not want their copy or has an extra copy to sell/trade/make a CD-R from? This is one of my favorite Club releases, and I do not know how much longer I can go without that simply explosive Lark's Tongue II....or that Waiting Man....or any of it, for Fripp's sake! drop me an e-mail if you can help me out! Thanks! Jason Gossard ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 01:05:52 +0100 From: The Ashies Subject: Nightwatch Live Ian Obermuller asked about the lyrics to Easy money on the Nightwatch live album. Well mine definitely says '..they never told me once you were a minor'. Actually, I've always had this idea that the lyrics were '...they never told me you were a miner'. I can just imagine a big guy with a dirty face and one of those hard hats with a lamp on being described as '.....show(ing) the colour of your crimson suspenders'. It brings Monty Python's Lumberjack Song to mind! I like it! Pat Ashworth ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 08:47:23 -0800 (PST) From: Ronald Miklos Subject: P3 Hi everyone Having traded a P3 show from Cactus Cafe (22/03/99) and heard it to exhaustion I have to say that Pat Mastelloto is really a "demon" (like Fripp himself says). He really did what he wrote on P3 CD. Cut, moved and replaced events (that is how he called P3 music), and so on... The result is wonderful but I can say that it does not reflect what one could have experimented attending one of their shows. I do not know if the attending audience liked it or not but the experience was for sure very different. The show (at least the one I mentioned) is not so heavy as the CD and some parts of the CD could easily be recognised in the Cactus Show. I could divide the 2 sets into 11 tracks (5 in the first one and 6 including encore in the 2nd one). Both sets lasted for about 74 minutes cutting out applause. First set began with a 11'30 min. soundscape following other 4 tracks lasting 40 minutes all together. 2nd set was a little bit shorter lasting some 34 minutes. The music itself is great IMHO. Ir is always very good to listen to a track in its entirety without being "demoned" by Pat. There are hevaier and lighter moments. Pat, Trey and Robert seemed very relaxed. The audience behaved himself good and a girl could be heard after the show saying "Thank you Projeckt 3" twice. I am anxiously waiting for other traded projeckt boots to arrive, not only from P3, to be able to analyse them and share my experience with other posters. That's for Dan Kirkdorfer: "P3 live - WOW" Ronald Vogel (Brasil) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 14:01:47 -0500 From: "Erik Varga" Subject: Crimson Nashville ticket Does anyone have an extra ticket for King Crimson Nashville May 20th "Saturday Night"? Erik ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 14:44:21 -0500 From: John Ott Subject: UK reunion, Qango > An old John Wetton interview added to ET interviews mentioned the UK > reunion cd. Does anyone know the status of this project? It sounded like it > was all but finished two years ago and then it dropped out of sight. Has it > been shelved for some reason? It sounded very intrigueing at the time they > were working on it. > Wetton withdrew because Eddie Jobson was slow to work on it because of his work on various TV and Movie soundtracks. John has asked that his vocals be removed. I recall something in Tony Levin's diary about being approached by Jobson for some more bass playing. Both Bill Bruford and Tony have already been recorded for the project. So perhaps Eddie had found time to work on this. John has a new project called QANGO it is: Carl Palmer: Drums and Percussion John Wetton: Vocals, Bass Guitar, Guitar David Kilminster: Guitar, Harmony Vocals John Young: Keyboards, Harmony Vocals This grew out of the failed Asia reunion. (Downes withdrew John Young steps in) Quango is touring in Europe at the moment and have Plans for Asia and North America. (no dates yet) later John ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 09:32:57 PST From: "Michel Champagne" Subject: May KC shows in Nashville...request for info Does anybody know what the deal is regarding ticket sales for the warm-ups at 12th & Porter in Nashville May 19-21? The websites linked on the DGM News page say absolutely nothing regarding tickets and ticketmaster.com doesn't have the shows listed. I've tried repeatedly to get info from the venue and have been forced to leave messages, but have heard nothing back. Could they possibly be sold out? Specifically, I am interested in 1) how to get tickets and 2) is it an all-ages show. TIA to any responses, either to the gb or directly to my email. Mike Michel J Champagne Pellerin Milnor Corporation Systems Programmer ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 19:38:33 +0100 From: "Tim Bowness" Subject: Possible Futures Before I make a few points that some ETers might mistakenly regard as 'burning' Robert and the boys, I better say that, for me, the band has always been one of the most artistically important and critically neglected (especially in the idiotically trend conscious UK) bands in the history of the rock genre and that after 30 years of a frequently bizarre on-off career, against all odds, they're still churning out idealistic and creative music. There's no doubt that alongside the likes of Hendrix, Velvet Underground and Roxy Music, Crimson are one of the truly great sonic archetypes of rock culture and have influenced generations of aesthetically contradictory artists from the Prog stylings of Steve Hackett to the new wave abrasiveness of Magazine, to the outer reaches of trance dance (The Orb) and avant-garde experimentalism (Paul Schutze/Fred Frith). There's also no doubt that each generation (the current one included) of the band has produced a dream team of players that would feature in countless favourite band lists. Throughout its career Crimson has laudably attempted to challenge notions of itself both externally and internally, and it's almost impossible to conceive other bands of its generation having the ability or inclination to play with the preconceptions heaped on it (imagine Yes or the Moody Blues putting their collective egos on the line in a similarly fearless manner to the Projekcts Crimso). Compared to their peers (eg the aforementioned Yes), KC is in extremely rude health and even compared with the 90's wave of Brit Rock artists (Verve/Oasis/Radiohead), Crimson sound positively 23rd Century. My main concern (stupid expectation?) is that the band are not effectively competing with the true voices of our current Progressive culture, which, for me, over the last decade or so have included Tricky, Underworld, Roni Size, Bjork, Massive Attack and Goldie. In many ways, the new KC has become an honourable entry into the slightly marginalised Out-Rock territory inhabited by Tortoise, Trans Am and Labradford, or a contemporary extension of the post-'Bitches Brew' Miles Davis bands from the early 70's. Although I've enjoyed recent KC albums, I'd replace the Energy/Intensity/Eclecticism motto with Energy/Intensity/Relentlessness. Partly due to the reliance on the rather plastic V Drums/Touch Guitar line-ups, the new music is frequently exciting, but rarely charming, relaxed or still. Despite occasional glimpses of light, the current music has a comparitively narrow sonic and emotional range and I don't believe it's due to the always excellent playing, but to the plasticity of the sound processes employed, which to me sound more like vague nods towards the early-80's jazz-rock futurism of Weather Report or Zappa's 'Jazz From Hell' than the sound of the 'noughties'. I agree with the ETer who suggested that too much is being said about something that probably didn't request it in the first place, but if you put King Crimson - The Projekcts on a cover and a #40 price tag on the box, you have to expect something serious in response. Having bought, digested and liked the Projeckts box set, I personally think the band is 75% of the way towards becoming a new force for a new age (with Mastelotto and Gunn finally coming into their own). If they seriously want to compete with Underworld and the Chemical Brothers (which they may not) rather than continue as an eccentric institution preaching to the converted, I'd suggest bringing in an outside producer such as Mitchell Froom, Roni Size or Brian Eno and contrasting the electronic soundscapes with more acoustic instrumentation and space. They're brave enough and capable enough to do it and personally speaking it would be nice to see the band confound the UK critics and find a residency in the charts again. Can I start a campaign to get a Kelis/Belew duet on the next album? -- tim dot bowness at virgin dot net http://www.collective.co.uk/noman http://www.collective.co.uk/darkroom http://www.collective.co.uk/samuelsmiles http://come.to/no-man ---------- ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #638 ********************************