Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #636 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 636 Friday, 18 February 2000 Today's Topics: Question about the Mexico City download attn. Fripp and Tapers Heartbeat Great Deceiver available Soaring angst over hard-hitting rhythms ; DVDs negative impact of Projekcts box set KC concerns. Deja Vrooom on a PC Loomings Justanote PS on DVDs Re: Trouble with Deja VROOOM re: HeartBeat _Joy of Molybdenum_ samples? In Support of Their Satanic Majesties -- Hyde Park '69? Re: Problems With Deja VROOM Re: Radius Re: Heartbeat Giles Giles & Fripp U.S. LP To anyone who has the Nightwatch live album... DGM Enhanced CD's? ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.5b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 15:05:22 -0500 From: "Josh Chasin" Subject: Question about the Mexico City download Is the Mexico City show still available for download? I had it on my hard drive, but my hard drive crashed (note to self: never buy another Compaq product again!) and everything was lost... sure I backed up the important stuff, but as we know there wasn't any way to back up this file. 'preciate any help. Thanks. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 15:42:39 -0500 From: "Andrew Fignar Jr." Subject: attn. Fripp and Tapers This is response to the daisy chain letter, and comments in ET #635 I don't read Fripp's dairies, so I was surprised to see the comment Mr. Fripp made about rape. To compare theft to rape is unacceptable. Can you imagine if you were raped (and yes, men can be raped) , every time you would see that word you would be reminded of the worst incident in your life. I can't imagine being raped 40 times a year as Fripp claims (every show is taped, Robert should know this by now). And not be dead or insane. I find his statement extremely offensive, as I'm sure rape victims feel offended too. so much so, I call for a public apology. OK I can understand and respect Mr. Fripp for his stance on tapers. I think it's great he releases so much material, and even formed a club for collectors. This is just about the coolest thing I've seen in music. Mr. Fripp sure gives us a lot of product, and I know he's not making as much as he should on this. I take this as a to show respect to collectors and tapers, and bending to our will. How fantastic, and honorable. This is a compromise I find very acceptable. Tapers, I see your point of view too, it's frustrating for you in this arena. I suggest you flock to artists who enjoy a good bang, and allow taping. We have trees, and files in SHN format right on the Internet to download. We are having a ball with the best equipment and cool rigs. Venues like The Wetlands, and GAMH, are giving us prime locations. We are not looked on as criminals, more like the elite fan. We are given more room and respect than I ever had stealth taping. An artist I like a lot that allows taping is Steve Kimock, his stuff is mellow, a jam band, but man can he play that guitar, it's not rock, but jam which is like the Dead, and bluegrass with a little jazz thrown in. Kimock is very enjoyable. You want more Rock? Well what About Mike Keneally and Beer For Dolphins. He was the last stunt guitarist for Zappa, playing the same role as Adrian Belew, and Steve Vai once filled for Zappa. He is now touring with the Steve Vai band, has played with Fripp. Robert has made positive comments on Mike at least twice. Once in the dairies, and once during a soundscape show, saying you should seek him out. I ditto that advice!!Mike is online when in town, and will talk to you directly. I probably have received about 50 private e-mails from him over the years. Check out his web page at www.keneally.com He has a news group too, and often posts there. Mike allows taping, bucking most of his peers on this, but what a gesture. Fact is, he is also one of us, a fan, his CD collection is one of the world's best. Please read his taping policy on his web page before attempting to tape or collect his works. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 15:59:11 EST From: TimPGriffiths at cs dot com Subject: Heartbeat Yes that really was 'Moonchild' that you heard in the background of Heartbeat (ITV 13 Feb). Not a programme I normally watch but it does tend to grab your attention when something as out of place as Moonchild appears. Who knows which programmes KCs current output will appear in in 30 years time! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 15:45:21 -0500 From: "Bill Duhigg" Subject: Great Deceiver available My Generation, the great independant CD store in Westlake, Ohio, has at least one copy of the Great Deceiver ($US62). Their phone number is 440-871-5586. I've phone-/mail-ordered stuff from them in the past, so I assume they may still do so. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 14:10:18 -0800 From: Ken Stuart Subject: Soaring angst over hard-hitting rhythms ; DVDs Hello, Normally, I don't violate the netiquette that prohibits "me too" messages, but since I haven't posted in a while, I wanted to say that the following few sentences by Mr. Kirkham perfectly encapsulates my own reaction to all post-Discipline KC and ProjeKct material: " The mood and tone on the ProjeKcts shows very little deviation from angst-filled, searing, soaring guitar lines overlying various hard-hitting rhythmic devices. I know that all of the artists are capable of doing other things. Yes the music is "complicated, uncompromising, and challenging," but it is so within the same relatively unchanged parameters. The further complication of an existing system is a classic symptom of involution. " Ironically, I only came across this statement due to an intent to post a short message advocating the purchase by any KC fan of the "Deja Vroom" DVD should they acquire a DVD player. In the course of this, I came across a few messages complaining about problems with this DVD, and I realized that before posting about the DVD, I should read any messages on it and so came across Mr. Kirkham's thoughtful statement. Regarding the DVD problems, my initial two reactions are: (1) It seems possible that at least one of the people with problems may not be aware that this DVD has two sides! To access the second half of the program, you must turn over the DVD! (2) It is still somewhat early in the evolution :-) of the DVD format, and the release of The Matrix DVD pointed out that many players do not conform to the full DVD guidelines. Since "Deja Vroom" is another such DVD that includes unusual features [ie any feature other than "press play":-) ], it is likely that many players do not properly implement support for the features used by "Deja Vroom". I will shortly try all the reported problem areas on my recent Toshiba DVD player and will report back. -- Cheers, Ken kstuart at jps dot net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 17:04:28 -0600 From: "Keith C. Wilkerson" Subject: negative impact of Projekcts box set The recent posts about the negative emotional impact that might be received from listening to the improvisational music in the Projekcts sent me back to listen to it after a month of having not listened to it. I had an initial impression when reading the posts that it might be true, at least for some. Relistening, I had a sense of joy at the playfulness and jazz improvisations, especially on P-2. I think the initial reaction comes from hearing the layers of seemingly chaotic discord. It takes a while to get used to it and feel any structure to it. It does not work all the time, but it is very interesting and when it does work, extremely fun and spontaneously joyful. It was well worth the price for me. Keith C. Wilkerson kcw at ccaonline dot com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 18:14:26 -0500 From: James Beard Subject: KC concerns. Hi there. I have read several interesting postings on ET which resonate with feelings that I've had for quite a while (well, since the beginning of The ProjeKcts, I suppose). I'm not convinced by quite a lot of the KC related material that has been produced in the last few years. I don't deny it has value for many fans out there, but it just doesn't *do it* for me personally. The last proper King Crimson album (to these ears) was Thrak. In 1995. I think I've been trying to 'make do' with the releases since then, but have never been really satisfied. I do think, however, that some of the solo projects have been more satisfying musically. Trey Gunn's 'The Third Star', for example - I have enjoyed it a lot. Also, both of Tony Levin's Papabear albums, Bruford's new Earthworks album and Belew's 'Op Zop Too Wah' have worked well as repeat playable albums. I guess the main areas I'm not keen on are the extended improvisations (ie not composition), the discordant/hardcore noise of much of the ProjecKcts, and the releasing of older material. > Even one cd that is all freeform improv can strain your brain. Four cds of > this is just too much to digest at once. There are plenty of five minute > passages you could drop in the middle of the Thrak cd and it might have been > my favorite cut after the first week. But all improv and no composition > makes KC a dull boy. I think it's too much of the same for me. I actually love 'Requiem' from Beat, once I worked out how to listen to it. But it was just one track on the album. Not a 40 minute version of 'Requiem'. As far as the old material goes, I'm mainly talking about the Collectors Club live releases. This is why I didn't sign up to the Club in the first place. I think it's a really good idea, particularly if you are more into the older material, but not for me. There's only a certain amount of different combinations of songs and line-ups that I can take. I have a few of the 70s albums, also The Nightwatch and Circus, which is enough to keep me happy on that score. But in the KCCC releases there are probably some tracks which appear on virtually every CD ... I do not blame Fripp or DGM for any of my complaints. It is my personal preference which governs these opinions, and DGM can't be expected to do everything tailored to my interests. On the whole, I have been very pleased with my DGM collection. I am however, rather waiting for another 'proper' King Crimson studio album. After all, there has only been one of these since 1984's 'Beat'. I have the same expectation from Peter Gabriel - his last proper studio album was in 1992 (Us). I am, overall, glad that King Crimson has managed to remain one of the very few bands who've existed for many many years, and haven't mellowed in the their old age, or become comercial. In fact KC seems to be exactly the opposite. And on the Bruford/Levin issue: I think my ideal KC would still be the 80s quartet (again a personal preference), but, having heard (and loved) Bruford's current solo work, I think maybe he's better off unleashing himself on the wider world. James. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 01:05:05 -0000 From: "Ron Chrisley" Subject: Deja Vrooom on a PC > Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 11:46:00 -0500 > From: Gary Davis > Subject: Re: Trouble with Deja VROOOM > > At 06:59 PM 2/11/00 GMT, Arnie wrote: > > > > >In a message dated 02/08/2000 8:11:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, > >toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk writes: > > > ><< << Has anyone else has a problem with Deja Vroom when > > trying to select different band members for 'Schizoid Man'? > > I get the same version regardless of which era I choose for > > any of the members. >> > > > > I can't even get to "Schizoid Band" on my DVD Player. Anyone know what I'm > > doing wrong or have any suggestions? > > I don't have a separate DVD player, but do have a DVD-Rom in my computer. > To be honest, accessing the Rom material of Deja Vrooom has always been > problematic for me. I wonder what troubles others have had. > Well, Gary, I felt I had to respond to your post, since I bought Deja Vrooom from *you* and have had loads of troubles trying to get it to work! :-) The truth is, after hours of fiddling when I first got it almost exactly a year ago, I finally was able to access everything except: 1) Tony's Road Movies: audio, but no picture 2) Indiscipline: it chokes just as they get to the fast part, and goes to the next track I'm using Cyberlink's PowerDVD, but do not take that as a recommendation. One big advance was that instead of moving the mouse around the screen, looking for places where the cursor changes to indicate a selection point, one can simply use the arrow keys! 21st Century Schizoid Band works fine on my PC. Later, Ron ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 20:33:51 EST From: VROOOM56 at aol dot com Subject: Loomings Call me Ishmael. Some years ago - never mind how long precisely-having little or no money in my purse, and nothing particular to interest me on shore... Fripp is he Ahab, Is he Father Mapple, Ishmael, Starbuck, the life sustaining coffin of Queequeg? Or the cursed White Whale and all that has been hinted! And the Crim, what of that motley collection? Of course they are the doomed PE QUOD, or at least it's crew of Skilled Men of adventure, put to the task by Old Captain Pegleg! And what of myself and others of my ilk, - Some years ago - never mind how long precisely-having little or no money in my purse, and nothing particular to interest me on shore... With apologies to classics referred above both literary and musically, My humble thanks for the time diverted from the everyday! JB ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 22:02:06 EST From: MAXhasHEART at aol dot com Subject: Justanote Justanote to say hello. Had the opportunity to see KC in PEORIA, IL, during the Islands Tour. One of the very best shows I've ever seen. I'm 45 years old now...that was late 1971 (or) early 1972. Islands was an amazing work. Also play McDonald and Giles first solo effort a lot ...still. It's an incredible thing to put Islands on these days...gives me a chill...how truly wonderful to still have that feeling about someone's work...it still affects me. Thanks guys!!!! Does the work hold up? Absolutely. Fripp...thank you. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 19:34:39 -0800 From: Ken Stuart Subject: PS on DVDs PS I did check Deja Vroom on my budget Toshiba DVD player today, with no problems accessing or playing any portion of the DVD (although I did not check every possible combination on the multi-era Schizoid). For those considering a DVD player, I heartily recommend a Toshiba, they seem to offer the best quality per dollar (or pound). -- Cheers, Ken kstuart at jps dot net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 07:27:43 -0700 From: Bill Lantz Subject: Re: Trouble with Deja VROOOM I've seen alot of people post with Deja VROOOM problems. I have a standalone JVC XV-501 DVD player and can access all features including selecting the different bands for Schizoid Man. The only thing I have any problem with at all is the actual selection process in the menus. It is a little jumpy and hard to pin down a selection at times, but patience always pays off. The songs that have multiple angles allow different angle selection on the fly without any interruption of music by hitting the angle button on my remote. At least this is the way it works on my system, so I'm glad I bought the player I did. This is easily the best DVD in my small but growing DVD collection, it was also my first. It has the most special features of any DVD I've come across (including movies). Tony's Road Movies set to a variety of DGM music are fun and a nice inclusion as well. My receiver is not equipped for 5.1 yet so I couldn't test that, but fortunately we're given the choice of audio formats. Bill ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 16:10:23 +0000 From: paul dot williams at nab dot co dot uk Subject: re: HeartBeat In response to: >Watching Heartbeat (ITV, 13th February) I am sure that a little >(instrumental) bit of Moonchild was used at least once. Yes indeed. Not being a Heartbeat adherent, I nevertheless caught the sublime tone of Moonchild while perusing the colour supplements last Sunday. I was amazed as they normally play stuff like the Tremeloes and Herman's Hermits!! Also: I recently bought the Fripp remaster of 'In the Court.....'and it is an amazing leap from the previous remastering from a few years back. Utterly brilliant resurrection of a classic... Are there any plans for 'In the Wake....' to receive the same treatments in the very near future??? Also, any UK dates proposed yet for KC - preferably London area?? e i o PW ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 14:15:03 -0300 (CLST) From: "Miguel Farah F." Subject: _Joy of Molybdenum_ samples? Hi. All the talk about Trey Gunn's _The Joy of Molybdenum_ has made me want to try it out, to see if I like it (try before you buy is my usual approach to music I don't know). I've been trying to find sound samples from this album, but haven't found any. Do you know if there are any out there? Thanks. -- MIGUEL FARAH // miguel at webhost dot cl #include // http://www.webhost.cl/~miguel <*> "Trust me - I know what I'm doing." - Sledge Hammer ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 11:36:35 -0800 From: Robert Cervero Subject: In Support of Their Satanic Majesties -- Hyde Park '69? This kinds of fits into the recent chatter of KC's mind-tinkering musical and 'satantic' influences. There's a Japanese bootleg coming out in March that, by title, speaks to Crimson's dialectic leanings -- dark & brooding yet regal & grand. It's titled: "King Crimson: In Support of Their Satanic Majesties -- Legendary Hyde Park, 1969". Of course, what's most noteworthy is that this is purportedly Crimson's much celebrated, long-awaited '69 Hyde Park show (hey, with nearly a half million folks in the audience, someone had to have recorded this). The flier states: "At Last! This previously unavailable original audience master tape. Sound quality is excellent from real master. One of the most important historical moments of Crimson's career!" I was at first dubious, for there was a 1969 Hyde Park bootleg going around a few years back which was the 1969 Plumpton show -- a sure give-away was that the ambient background noise sure didn't sound like 400,000+ hippies. However, purportedly a guy who recorded the Stones show at Hyde Park (which came out as a bootleg two years ago) also recorded Crimson. One Japanese contact says he's listened to a few clips of the show and this is definitely the real thing. As someone who got hooked by KC in '69, I'm salivating at this prospect. Do any Japanese E.T.er's have any more of a scoop on this? Rob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 09:11:46 -0500 From: KrisD Subject: Re: Problems With Deja VROOM gents, i have had absolutely no problem exploiting every option on the disk. i am using a high-end Pioneer DVD player and a DTS-aware receiver. it has been my experience that DVD-ROM's typically found in laptops and home computers have subtle differences from the commercial home-theater grade DVD players and certainly use a different operating system to decode the contents of a DVD. evidence that yet another protocol out there is not totally standardized. try to find someone with another copy of DeVr and see if you experience the same problems. if you do, it's probably your hardware. if not, the DVD itself is probably bad, see ya! ~kris ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 17:49:51 EST From: Sylsteph at aol dot com Subject: Re: Radius Dans un courrier date du 15/02/00 20:32:49 Heure d'hiver Paris Madrid, et at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk a ecrit : > Can someone here tell me if something called "Radius" with contributions > from David Cross has already been released? > If so, what is the title of this album? > Has anyone possibly heard it, so that he could shortly describe the > music on "Radius"? > Zbig Radius is Geoff Serle's band, featuring David Cross and Sheila Maloney, among others. I've learned that they have realised five albums, but I only know two of them : "Elevation" and "Where is the peace ?", which is the last one, I think, realised five or six years ago (may be on Voiceprint). It contains a sort of "ambiant" version of "Minaret", a track first released on Cross second album, "The Big Picture". Describing the music is difficult (and it's a long time i've been listening this stuff !): you could say it's a mixture of modern sounds, programmed rythms, jazz-rock, contemplative or dark ambiances, and allsorts. I'm not sure this description helps really, but my memory is a bit tired, although I do remember it's very strange and also interesting. Stephane Fougere http://www.multimania.com/traversesmag/index.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 06:42:45 -0800 (PST) From: vince dot beaney at excite dot com Subject: Re: Heartbeat Miles Chapman wrote: >Watching Heartbeat (ITV, 13th February) I am sure that a little >(instrumental) bit of Moonchild was used at least once. Did anyone else >hear this or was it something similar to KC that I misheard? >All and any details please! Yes, I heard it; it was Crimso' and it also had a certain Mr. Greg Lake singing as well (it was in the 'dramatic' bit where the baby went missing!) - For all you non-UK ET-ers who wonder what we are talking about; Heartbeat is a TV situation-drama about a policeman in Yorkshire in the sixties, with lots of period music; I don't recall hearing Crimso' before, but then I don't watch it very often (honest!!) Vince <>< ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 23:16:21 EST From: Biffyshrew at aol dot com Subject: Giles Giles & Fripp U.S. LP Dear Palavering Pachyderms: At a record convention last weekend I found a copy of an album I've heard about but never actually seen in 30 years of collecting Crimson: the U.S. pressing of _The Cheerful Insanity Of Giles, Giles And Fripp_. Here's an excerpt from Fripp's 1974 interview with Ihor Slabicky in Trans-Oceanic Trouser Press that is relevant to this find: IS: Was Giles, Giles & Fripp a big success? RF: Oh no. We sold 500 and something in England. I still get royalty statements. It sold one in Sweden, 40 in Canada. IS: It was released here. RF: Yes it was. Greg Lake managed to find a copy. It has a different cover to the English one. He threatened to have it blown up into a huge poster. I reminded Gregory that I had, and still do have, a few of his early publicity photos which include Greg holding a huge, two-foot diameter plastic rose with a crown of thorns. I threatened reciprocal action with these. IS: What's on the American cover? RF: I'm wearing a hat, a cap which looks like a Salvation Army cap and, well, it's just different. I've placed a scan of the cover on my website at: http://members.aol.com/biffyshrew/crimso.html Get on down, Biffy the Elephant Shrew ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 21:17:28 -0800 (PST) From: Ian Obermuller Subject: To anyone who has the Nightwatch live album... Anyone who has the Nightwatch live album... Do the live-only alternate lyrics ("..they never told me that you were a minor") of Easy Money appear in this version? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 01:21:54 -0600 (CST) From: david craig Subject: DGM Enhanced CD's? Folks- Anyone else tried using the enhanced CD features on a recent DGM release? I haven't tried it in a while because the first time I did, all I found was a catalog, which isn't very exciting :-) A friend of mine with a new G4 I helped him set up tried one recently, and couldn't get it to work. In particular, when you try and access the enhanced cd features from your computer, the silly thing wants to install QuickTime 3. If you decline the invitation, the program quits and won't let you access the catalog or whatever else is there. There are an assortment of idiotic problems with this: i) QuickTime is at version 4, and has been for QUITE SOME TIME NOW (actually, it's presently at 4.1, soon to be bumped up again, I believe.) Somebody tell DGM.... ii) Said version 4.1 is already installed. iii) I simply cannot _believe_ that the programming would be so breathtakingly bad that it requires just exactly that (outdated) version of QuickTime to run. So ... what's up? Is there anything on the CDs these days worth viewing? If so, what's it going to take to view them? (Downgrading to ancient system software for a silly catalog is too absurd an option to even mention....) David ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #636 ********************************