Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #635 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 635 Tuesday, 15 February 2000 Today's Topics: NEWS: CGT in Newport, RI deja FOOOOL Share a room in Nashville Disappearing (or Invisible) Posting EG Mislabeled CDs my personal history of kc Re: Great Deceiver Box set Survey 9; Trey Gunn Band; Cross website; double duo Rieflin; Mojo article; Survey 9; next KCCC release; Video of 1973-1974 band; Re: Guitar Synth Patron/artist relationship Discourse in the Court of the Crimson Fool,Bootleg Daisy Chain THANK YOU!!! "Negative Psychological Impact of KC" Radius? crimson etc for sale Continuing discussion about "discordant music' Re: In The Court Of The Crimson Fool Re: Trouble with Deja VROOOM Re: an observation by W. Stuart Kirkham KC and Fripp CDs for sale Re: Crimson In Nashville HeartBeat Richard Palmer-James; King Crimson's potential Re: Guitar Craft GIG REVIEW: "We are the Glove" Trey Gun Band at the Tonic Lounge, Portland O ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.5b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 10:50:36 -0500 From: Martin Bradburn Subject: NEWS: CGT in Newport, RI Dear Eter's - We are once again excited to host the California Guitar Trio on Feb 22 here's the info: The NC5 Music Series, In cooperation with Newport Winterfest Presents DGM Recording Artists The California Guitar Trio In a return engagement supporting their new album "Rocks The West" Tuesday February 22nd The Newport Congregational Church, 73 Pelham St (corner of Pelham and Spring) Newport, RI For info and tickets call (401) 849-2238 or 846-9262 Doors open at 6:00 pm; Show starts at 7:00 pm $15 day of the show, $13 In advance, with Winterfest button, children under 12, and seniors. Open seating. The Church is an old beautiful space, and the CGT show there in Oct was phenom, great acoustics, wonderful performance, and appreciative audience. If you want to see the CGT in a non-bar/club environment, and live in the NE area this is the one. If not catch them in your area, they are such a dynamic, talented and fun show, chances are you'll leave with a smile on your face, I always do! - Martin Bradburn ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 14:27:24 EST From: Monkici at aol dot com Subject: deja FOOOOL this deja vroom dvd just sucks. only about 25% of the thing will actually load and half the time there is no audio. hmmm. this seems to run against the grain of what robert is preaching about in the liner notes... does anyone have suggestions. please email me privately. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 14:38:14 -0500 From: Scott Greenbaum Subject: Share a room in Nashville Do 3 or 4 people here want to share a non-snoring room in Nashville for the 5/19 > 21 Krim shows? I'll be flying in from Miami, solo and wish to defray costs. Please email me privately at Scott at Greenbaum dot com Thanks, Scott Greenbaum ************************ Scott Greenbaum Professional Exchange Account Manager http://www.professional-exchange.com mailto:scott at professional-exchange dot com t (800) 351-1138 ext. 104 f (800) 351-1146 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 15:24:00 -0500 From: "BELONIS, KONSTANTINOS" Subject: Disappearing (or Invisible) Posting I had made a posting prior to the previous issue with regards to the posting "Negative aspects......" However I have seen that it did not make it into the newsletter even though I believed that it was well written and addressed the subject matter succinctly. Did I somehow inadvertantly run afoul of the posting ettiquette? At any rate, I still would like to know if anyone has studied the picking technique of R. Fripp and may have some suggestions as to maximize a protocol of study. Also, I kind of wish that some posters would ease up on trashing any music that isn't within the ken of KC and related artists. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 16:23:06 -0500 From: Adam Aronson Subject: EG Mislabeled CDs In #634 Dave & Racqui said... > I have recently acquired a copy of Sunday All Over the > World's "Kneeling at the Shrine" CD. Nice stuff. Had a > couple listens...pretty interesting. > > Upon the second removal from my CD player, I noticed that > the CD itself is labeled RF & tLoCG, Show of Hands. This is > printed on the CD, opposite the data side (obviously), > straight from EG. Has anyone else come across this? Do I > have a rarity? Private responses would be welcomed. funny... there is a similar discussion running on the Brian Eno list: Nerve Net. I personally own a copy of the EG "Starless..." whose actual CD is labeled as "In The Court..." A few Eno-ites are describing owning "Evening Star" and others with the same problem. Adam ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 00:16:33 +0100 From: "Etlettera" Subject: my personal history of kc dear guys and girls, dear rob. in a storm evening in 1960, on winter's beginnin' isaw at first time light of life. fifteen years later i met kc. fist there was court of kc. years later. i bought as a tape live kc: "usa" over the years kc was my first adress in music. i met a girl, years ago. she's talking about michael jackson. she was out. now i'm 40years. i got two boys, beeing a good father. beeing a good husband, for life. and now, twentyfive years later, hearing starless and.... i understand. music and words. thanks, rob, tahanks, all human at kc. thanks you for your work. doesn't matter, that i'm from austria. not all the people here are fighting against strangers. notice' 74% didn't elect him greetings carl michael wolf ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 17:23:11 -0700 From: gherring Subject: Re: Great Deceiver Box set > i want to get 'the great deceiver' 4 cd set - where can i get it??? > thanx, > steve burdick > As you may have noticed, it currently is out of print. The plan seems to be to re-issue it, but if I recall correctly, there is a legal snafu about the artwork holding it up (sorry, don't exactly recall where I read that). If you aren't willing to wait for that (or whatever it is) to be resolved, check the auction sites. I got my copy recently from a amazon.com auction. I was lucky enough to find someone selling an "unwrapped" (as he said; it apparently was never opened and still had the cellophane and price tags on it). Just keep checking the Amazon, Ebay, Yahoo, and every other web auction site you can think of. What you'll find probably really will be used, but that's all there is right now. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 16:26:26 -0800 From: "Scott Steele" Subject: Survey 9; Trey Gunn Band; Cross website; double duo A couple of caveats to Survey 9 at www.elephant-talk.com. It was very difficult to pick a favorite release, all are good and almost all are ideal. (I haven't refused one yet and can't imagine refusing one.) I would feel a lot better about downloading video and audio performances if it were easy for me to convert them to other formats that are more compatible with my home stereo and video systems. I do not use my home computer for music listening much; my stereo and video are still doing that for me. Call me old-fashioned. > Feb. 10 Eugene, OR WOW Hall Trey Gunn: Thanks for bringing your excellent ensemble up the West Coast. The show was fantastic, the musicianship was at a very high level. You are really on to something here. I hope this tour is very rewarding for you, financially and/or otherwise. Congratulations to all four of you for a real victory. >Very best wishes, David Cross Very best wishes to you sir. Exiles rocks my world. I look forward to your next release with great anticipation. See you at www.noisynoisy.com. >(c) I don't like this designation 'Double Duo'. The new line-up is, let's not beat around the bush, a quartet. You must lighten up and enjoy life more. - S. np: Ry Cooder, Trespass soundtrack scottst at ohsu dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 16:40:58 -0800 From: "Scott Steele" Subject: Rieflin; Mojo article; Survey 9; next KCCC release; Video of 1973-1974 band; herbicide >Just picked up Bill Rieflin's CD titled "Birth Of A Giant" and the last track blew me away. It's simply called "Outro(non intro). It is played by Robert Fripp-rhythm & dueling guitars, Trey Gunn-bass & dueling warr guitars, Bill Rieflin-bass, un-mellotron, drums, and Carmen Rizzo-blips. The album is very solid and falls in nicely between KC and NIN land. This album, and the Rieflin-Fripp-Gunn album, are indispensable. >I would really like to read the Dec. 99 Mojo article on the KC 30th anniversary. I too missed that, and if it could be posted on the E-T web site, I think it would be great. I was surprised when I found I couldn't link to it from the DGM web site. >So what is your single favorite is hard to answer because I would give up Broadway before the others because there are other quality sources of double trio live. I found that difficult to answer too. >1. Does anybody know which band is going to be on the next release? Is it the end of the "Islands" band, or the beginning of the "Larks" band? Kind of the middle of the Islands band. >If you know more about it thatn just that, please feel free to share-(songs, why it would be of particular interest) I don't know any more about it than that, sorry. >2. Does anybody have a copy of the bruford-wetton-cross-fripp band playing on t.v in 73'? I have been hungering to actually see them play some of this amazing stuff(as i am a musician myself, i love actually watching bands do things that amaze me) There is a tiny little clip of this band on the Careful With That Axe video available from DGM. >I do not feel that the music is so bad that it should be used as a herbicide... One man's medicine is another man's herbicide. I love it when they make me grind my teeth. - S. np: Magma downloaded from www.hob.com scottst at ohsu dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 19:42:59 -0500 (EST) From: "Aaron G. Moulin" Subject: Re: Guitar Synth Macahan, Fripp uses a Roland GR-1, a GR-30 and a VG-8 V-guitar system. I think Adrian uses a GR-30 and a GR-1 (but I wouldn't wager my head on it). Trey likely uses a GR-30 and probably a fair amount of other things--I haven't a clue as to the specifics of his "toys." I personally own a GR-30 and a GR-1. Both are excellent guitar synths with faithful tracking a sound reproduction. I don't believe that Roland markets the GR-1 anymore. You can, however, get them off Ebay (where I got mine) for a reasonable price. The GR-30 can be purchased new for probably around $600-$700 (not including the GK-2A pickup). Personally--I would go with a Roland synth. But, I'm biased. The VG-8 is a fantastic synthesizer, but also expensive. I hope to get one someday. So, there's what I know about what you've asked. Good luck. Aaron ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 17:03:51 -0800 From: "Scott Steele" Subject: Patron/artist relationship >>Maybe you've heard about a site called "e-circles", there you can upload and download freely. This could be an interesting option to get innaccesible Krimson Material. >Another suggestion is for people to set up a "digital tree," the modern version of the old "tape tree", by which rare live recordings were circulated among fans in a structured format (the first person sends copies to two people, who then send copies to two people each, and so on). Outstanding, given the recognition that the patron has a moral obligation to purchase all of an artist's "authorized" output before dealing in his "unauthorized" output, and in so doing establishes the best possible relationship between patron and artist. The best source of highest quality "inaccessible material" has been the Collector's Club for the past couple of years. >http://difference-engine.tripod.com/ Thank you sir - S. np: Gone Orchestra, 7/25/99 scottst at ohsu dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 21:47:03 EST From: Hocow at aol dot com Subject: Discourse in the Court of the Crimson Fool,Bootleg Daisy Chain Wow, Mr. Kirkham raises some interesting points. Some of the fauning over the ProjeKcts may be a bit of the Crimson Kings new clothes. I have gotten into everything KC has done from the beginning, but I do not consider the ProjeKcts to be Crimson anymore than B.L.U.E, League of Gentlemen, or the Bears. These are some great jams (as in the old fashioned jazz sense of the word.) I have the full set and find it to be challenging, sometimes even trying music. There's a lot to like but I think to some degree this material is being evaluated as much more than it is. On the old Larks era lps (that's sort of like a disc for you younger readers) the improv cuts sprinkled among the compositions were also harder to get into but they were one among eight or so songs. Starless (the improv) eventually became one of my favorites on that album, but I had Fracture, Great Deceiver, and Night Watch to use as training wheels until it grew on me. The same could be said for Providence. Asbury Park was the high point of the live album out of the box. Even one cd that is all freeform improv can strain your brain. Four cds of this is just too much to digest at once. There are plenty of five minute passages you could drop in the middle of the Thrak cd and it might have been my favorite cut after the first week. But all improv and no composition makes KC a dull boy. Without knocking Tony and Adrian I have found all the later improv to be a bit more stagnant. I think it might be the way the melotrons glued everything together or the way Wetton played lead bass guitar. The 80's and 90's improvs just don't seem to have those stunning moments where you start saying there's no way they just tossed that off without composing it. Soundscapes may also contribute to a lack of harmonic movement do to their repetitious nature. I find it strange that Fripp places so much emphasis on improvisation with the latest lineups. It will be interesting to see how much the ProjeKcts affect the new Crimson. Pr ojeKct X could very well be a case of addition by subtraction. Six pieces in a freeform jam almost guarantees that at least four guys have to use a lot of admirable restraint. The smaller rythm section should make for a more adaptable unit. I also think P1234 might have needed some Adrianism's in the guitar section. Trey's solo cd's (buy the new one now!) show a lot of inventiveness that for some reason he has not unleashed in the Crim format. Judging by Robert's diary we should be able to expect full frontal Warr guitar, especially in the bass clef, on the new Crimson. I am greatly looking forward to this. Anyway, despite this diatribe, I really enjoy the improvs but I would rather they be the crown jewel in a program balanced with great compositions. Hey, this had very little to do with all that deep stuff in Kirkham's post. It just inspired me to ramble on about how I evaluate the ProjeKcts. I Talk To The Windbag. (I'm referring to myself, not Mr. Kirkham) Yours Verbosely, Brad Wilmot PS What the hell are you guys thinking, proposing a bootleg daisy chain, in a newsletter for Robert "smuggling a recorder into my concerts is a nonconsensual act comparable to rape" Fripp enthusiasts? I confess I've bought a couple of bootlegs myself so I can't say I am without blame,but to openly call for setting up a bootleg web in a forum where you know he's going to read it is at best insensitive to Fripp and at worst an insult to everything he stands for. No wonder we get called a turd. It's not like there isn't a glut of material availble now anyway. Well I'm getting down off my soapbox now. See ya. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 11:20:52 CET From: "Macahan The Unifaun" Subject: THANK YOU!!! Hello! Thank you to all who replied to my mail about guitar synths. I received lots of mails with lots of info and lots of advises. Most were positive but some were negative towards guitar synths. But in the end, when summing it all up, I decided to go for a Roland GR-30 plus a GK2A pickup. I learned that the sounds in a GR-30 can be found in the JW 10-80 and 20-80 keyboard, so I'll go and try that one to know a little about what sounds you can get. Thanks again, I really appreciate your kindness and helpfulness. /Macahan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 02:56:39 +0000 From: luisrey Subject: "Negative Psychological Impact of KC" So now King Crimson is 'satanic'. A recent letter from "Macahan the Unifaun" raises the ugly head of 'satanist' infantile mythology in rock music... may I ask, what is the use of a 'message backwards'in a recording when to ACTUALLY HEAR IT you have to play the record (please note:vinyl) backwards? Who's got the equipment to hear the recording in such way? Maybe a selected few blockheads that spend all their money to hear Led Zeppelin saying something like "Do What Thou Wilt"... how very enlightening and original... getting an Aleister Crowley book is cheaper (and even reading it engraved on the vinyl of Led Zeppelin III), but of course that would imply some degree of intelligence, something those famous 'satanic fans' and preachers lack. This 'backwards' thing probably had its origin in exorcist horror movies. Subliminal messages are not recorded 'backwards'.For this the technology required (and many time used, specially in advertising) is completely different. That leaving alone the rather ridicule notion of all the satanic stuff, 'dark and light' mystical rubbish. KC is tangible, humanistic, deep, sardonic, not very optimistic or whatever... rather realistic I think. But then realism is 'dark' in our happy society of the spectacle. Naivete indeed, but then... confusion will be our epitaph isn't it? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 12:52:26 +0100 From: izyrp at odn dot de Subject: Radius? Can someone here tell me if something called "Radius" with contributions from David Cross has already been released? If so, what is the title of this album? Has anyone possibly heard it, so that he could shortly describe the music on "Radius"? Zbig ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:05:24 -0000 From: "David Hudson" Subject: crimson etc for sale I'm selling the following stuff. Prices exclude postage and packing (I live in England). Please e-mail me privately. King Crimson - The ProjeKcts (4 cd): #20 Project Two - Space Groove (2 cd): #7 Bruford Levin - Upper Extremities: #6 Robert Fripp - Radiophonics 1995 Soundscapes Volume 1: #6 Ten Seconds - Ten Seconds: #6 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 08:14:17 -0600 From: Todd F Harrison Subject: Continuing discussion about "discordant music' Good day, friends, It looks as if Mr. Kirkham may have missed or not enjoyed the "formal inquiry" nature of my posting. (How did I dare, indeed). I often argue the contrary hoping that what ends up is the integration/unity of opposites. Sir, please don't take a formal discussion and inquiry personally. If I misunderstood you, it is purely my fault and a reflection of human frailty. Naturally, if you didn't care, you wouldn't bother to take the time to improvise a posting. On the other hand, part of the intention in my posting was to attempt to impose a more structured inquiry, a non-improvised questioning if you will. This would explain my attempt to try on different words to see if they fit, as well as to look at both sides of the "commerciality" question. If that was thought provoking, I have succeeded. Apologies if the tone and dispassionate inquiry was perceived as other than loving and interested. TH/Chicago ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 15:35:23 +0100 From: "Tim Bowness" Subject: Re: In The Court Of The Crimson Fool Just to say that I thought the recent 'In the Court of the Crimson Fool' posting was probably the most eloquently and coherently argued statement of intent I've come across in ET since I started receiving my twice weekly dose of KC mania around eight months ago. The involutionary observation was exactly right and certainly describes the industry workings of many other artists contemporaneous to Fripp and co as well (e.g. creatively speaking: Bill Nelson/Neil Young/Philip Glass, commercially speaking: Yes/Steve Hackett). The motivation is primarily financial, but ultimately if these artists continue to produce large volumes of adequate but ultimately rather inessential work, the respect of even the most hardcore audience will diminish. For me, the 90's incarnation of KC has been something of a superior tribute to its own history. A 'Red' for the digital generation, if you like. They've skilfully mined aspects of their past and performed them brilliantly, but have failed in coming up with a viable contemporary identity in the way that previous incarnations obviously did. During this period of slightly unsure footing, they've then foisted several good but insubstantial albums of material upon, what has become, a rather static audience of diehards (me included). I know many former KC fanatics who feel that the band has become a self-conscious parody of itself and after being disappointed by the myriad releases surrounding Thrak will take a lot of persuading to come back into the fold. What next, 'Vroom Vroom', the sound of the car engines that took the mighty Crimson to the rehearsal studios that made the music that made the album? Such atrophy can be circumvented. Brian Eno has been consistently interesting for almost thirty years. Due to his collaborations (U2/Massive Attack/Jah Wobble/Talking Heads), his work and audience have been in a state of constant evolution. With the exception of the themed 'ambient' series of albums, his solo material has always been sufficiently different to what preceded it to justify an ongoing interest. That doesn't preclude prolificity either. In 1994/95 alone he was a primary source of influence on five grounbreaking and utterly different releases (Bowie's 'Outside' /Passengers' 'OST'/ Laurie Anderson's 'Bright Red'/ 'Spinner' with Jah Wobble/ James' 'Wah Wah'). I write this because King Crimson have meant a great deal to me in the past and certainly have the potential to do so again. In the same way that I treasure my copy of 'In The Court', but feel that the 'Epitaph' boxset was unnecessary (historically fascinating, though artistically questionable), I believe that the band should have waited for a new direction to occur, released a great album as a result of this and left it until the next wave of inspiration descended upon them to release a successor. Personally, I find the continuing releases of live performances and r&d sessions to be occasionally inspired and interesting, but ultimately confusing and damaging as regards the band's pursuit of a new audience. As a means of improving their payments into their pension plan however, it's brilliant. -- tim dot bowness at virgin dot net http://www.collective.co.uk/noman http://www.collective.co.uk/darkroom http://www.collective.co.uk/samuelsmiles http://come.to/no-man ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 11:46:00 -0500 From: Gary Davis Subject: Re: Trouble with Deja VROOOM At 06:59 PM 2/11/00 GMT, Arnie wrote: > >In a message dated 02/08/2000 8:11:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, >toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk writes: > ><< << Has anyone else has a problem with Deja Vroom when > trying to select different band members for 'Schizoid Man'? > I get the same version regardless of which era I choose for > any of the members. >> > > I can't even get to "Schizoid Band" on my DVD Player. Anyone know what I'm > doing wrong or have any suggestions? I don't have a separate DVD player, but do have a DVD-Rom in my computer. To be honest, accessing the Rom material of Deja Vrooom has always been problematic for me. I wonder what troubles others have had. Gary ************************************************************** Gary Davis The Artist Shop The Other Road http://www.artist-shop.com artshop at artist-shop dot com phone: 330-929-2056 fax:330-945-4923 SUPPORT THE INDEPENDENT ARTIST!!! ************************************************************** Check out the latest Artist Shop newsletter at http://www.artist-shop.com/news.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 13:24:25 -0800 From: "Stephen L Arnold" Subject: Re: an observation by W. Stuart Kirkham On 11 Feb 00, at 18:59, W. Stuart Kirkham wrote: [snip] > So I ask, to what extent have these artists realized their > combined potential? To what extent has our perceptions of what > King Crimson is or should be, restricted the ability of the band > to fully realize their potential? To what degree is the band > simply playing to the expectations of its audience (and to what > degree do we the audience thus limit the artists' creative > expression)? Balderdash, gobbledygook, and poppycock ;) > They must sell to us; that is the economic reality of life, but > to what degree have we let them down by being blind and slavish > worshipping drones, and not helping them push themselves further > by being brutally honest about their work? You're right, they do have to sell their stuff, but I certainly don't think disc sales are a factor directly (or indirectly) in their respective creative processes. In fact, pretty much all of us would buy most anything they put out; some might sell or trade them afterwards, but most would not. I think Fripp & Co. realize that pretty much anything they do will sell to the core fan base, so they can be free to follow their creative impulses for the most part. Also, each era (decade?) of KC has evolved considerably, yet has always had a common thread of Crimsonite (or Fripp?) running through it. It sounds like you have a somewhat divergent opinion of what *you* think KC and related works should do and be. If you want something *that* different from what they're doing (and have done over the years) then feel free to listen to other things (I also like Bela Fleck, Frank Zappa, Peter Gabriel, John Cage, JS Bach, and Paco de Lucia, among others). After all the DGM releases, as well as Fripp's business philosophy, how could you believe they are driven by purely commercial or business concerns? It seems to me DGM is intended to do just the opposite. And I would certainly not characterize KC fans in general as: > blind and slavish worshipping drones Egotistical, condescending, and opinionated maybe ;-) but not worshipping drones. > All they hear us say in this forum is, "That was really good > guys. Great Show." More virtuosity please. More angst-filled > thrashing and banging about, please. More of the same, please, > but more complicated. Involutionary. I haven't been able to keep up with my ET reading lately, but that's not how I remember it being. I did get to see CGT last time (with Tony) and they just came back last week with the Trey Gunn Band. At the risk of sounding blind and slavish, it was excellent, and I thoroughly enjoyed it. Especially the part about sitting on the patio eating great pizza from next door and drinking draft Red Tail, and chatting with a couple of the guys; then back to the pool table for the show. I also picked up the latest CGT and Trey CDs and got them signed, so I got to meet and chat with everybody for a while after the show. It was a most exceptional evening (so sue me, I'm a slave to excellent music and fun). The CGT _rocks the west_ is live stuff from a few recent dates, including the previous show at the Mercury so it has some tracks with Tony and Bill Janssen, while Trey's _The Joy of Molybnenum_ is new studio stuff with Bob Muller and Tony Gabelle. There was also a new guy at the show (Randy Strom) playing Warr guitar along with Trey. He's a real nice guy, even after a bad night's sleep on a hard floor :( The only thing I can think of, in terms of constructive criticism, is that I'd like to hear some of the CGT's own compositions and ideas developed over a slightly longer time frame. Some of them are just too short... (am I being slavish again?) The other thing is that I got the impression that Trey & Co. were just getting fully warmed up as they hit the last encore. (kinda like the Gypsy Kings - they don't get really groovin' until about 2:00 am) But no way am I going to tell them what to do musically. I think they're fully capable of determining their own musical direction. I'm just going to wait and see what comes next. And I'm not going to bad-mouth it until they do something I don't like. [disabling soap-box mode and enabling flame-retardant shield] Steve ************************************************************* Steve Arnold http://www.rain.org/~sarnold Things go better with Linux and King Crimson. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 11:22:16 -0500 From: Kevin Subject: KC and Fripp CDs for sale Hello, I have a few CDs for sale if anyone is interested. Shipping is $2 for the first and $1 per disc after (in the US) King Crimson--Thrakattak (with poster)--DGM--$9 Sylvian/Fripp--The First Day--Virgin--$5 Sylvian/Fripp--Darshan (remixes by Future Sound of London and the Grid)--Virgin UK-$7 Thanks for looking Kevin ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 11:51:54 -0500 From: "Larry D'Ambrosa" Subject: Re: Crimson In Nashville Does anyone know if the shows are Nashville allow people under the age of 21? I'd like to bring my daughters (some might say subject them to) the show. Please reply to: ldambrosa at attglobal dot net Thanks, Larry D'Ambrosa ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 09:31:17 +0000 From: Miles Chapman Subject: HeartBeat Watching Heartbeat (ITV, 13th February) I am sure that a little (instrumental) bit of Moonchild was used at least once. Did anyone else hear this or was it something similar to KC that I misheard? All and any details please! Miles Chapman ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 15:28:06 -0800 From: "Scott Steele" Subject: Richard Palmer-James; King Crimson's potential >The singer will take the lead on most of the songs (composed by David Cross, Richard Palmer-James and Mick Paul). I am glad that R P-J is going to collaborate with this outstanding group. >I would not waste my time seeking out this forum just to say KING CRIMSON SUCKS! Many before you have done exactly that, hard as it is to believe. >My point is that yes, the music is good, and it has changed form, but does this mean that they have realized their full potential as a band? My input is this: the change represents more of an involution of their music than an evolution. My input is this, and the key words in your sentence, for me, are "full potential": They may never reach their full potential. However, it is more likely that they will as opposed to, say, Martina Aguilera or Christina Carey. ;) >Personally, if Bruford feels like it is time to leave KC, I support him in his decision. So does Fripp. >I find a greater degree of creativity in his music outside of KC than in his recent works within it. I am not sure about a "greater degree of creativity" but I certainly appreciate the new Earthworks album as a fine work of art. >So I ask, to what extent have these artists realized their combined potential? One must first answer whether they have reached their separate potentials. But I think that it is more likely that this group will reach their combined potential than in any other group I can think of, because of their skill in combining. >To what extent has our perceptions of what King Crimson is or should be, restricted the ability of the band to fully realize their potential? I think that Fripp (and the others) consistently resist the tendency of being restricted by our perceptions. >To what degree is the band simply playing to the expectations of its audience (and to what degree do we the audience thus limit the artists' creative expression)? I think that they actively resist playing to the expectations of their audience. >They must sell to us; that is the economic reality of life, but to what degree have we let them down by being blind and slavish worshipping drones, and not helping them push themselves further by being brutally honest about their work? Quite a bit if one reads and believes the Fripp diary. >All they hear us say in this forum is, "That was really good guys. Great Show." More virtuosity please. More angst-filled thrashing and banging about, please. More of the same, please, but more complicated. Involutionary. That is not really all that is said in this forum. Largely though I would agree with you; that that is mostly what is said in this forum. - S. np: Tapes of myself from 1982 (I forgive myself) scottst at ohsu dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 19:06:40 -0600 From: Guitar Craft North America Subject: Re: Guitar Craft Hello, In response to David Way's question in ET #634 about the recommended Ovation model for Guitar Craft and related courses; the correct model is #1867. Persons interested in participating in a Guitar Craft course and wishing to purchase an Ovation can pursue details about discounts via the course registrar. These and general questions about Guitar Craft can be directed to the above address; more information can be found at www.guitarcraft.com. Best, Murray Kapell Guitar Craft North America ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 23:44:11 -0800 From: "btpmsi" Subject: GIG REVIEW: "We are the Glove" Trey Gun Band at the Tonic Lounge, Portland Oregon Dear all, After reading Trey's diary entry for 2-4-00, I attended this show with more than a little trepidation. "Internal and external pressures are forcing us to cancel the Midwest leg of this tour" (I'm paraphrasing) While I'm not sure about the specifics of how this decision came to be, I do know that the perfomance I took in last night showed very little sign of "internal pressures" and many signs of passionate, professional musicianship. The show led off with a new one from Joy of Molybdenum, called "Sozzle"; then "Kuma" from "The Third Star", then Heavens Gate from JOM. "Sirrah" ended the fisrt section. On the second or third song of the set ("Sirrah, I think") as Bob Muller switched from his drum kit to playing the hand drums, he accidently dropped his drumsticks on the floor next to the Bass drum. Without missing a step, Trey reached calmly down, picked them up, and waited for the right "rythmic moment" to hand them back to Bob, so he could switch back seamlessly to playing his kit. I could see the grateful smiles on the faces of the rest of the band after that. Each successive time I've seen Trey Gunn I am struck by how much his playing has grown from the previous outing. As with the previous show here at the Satyricon, the audience seemed to hang on every note, and there were moments of rythmic fire and melodic beauty. "Arrakis" led off the second "grouping" of songs at a breakneck pace of hairsbreadth syncopation between Trey and Tony Geballe on the lead melody. Tony really showed me some amazingly idiosyncratic soloing on his six string guitar. (he also played Saz and an acoustic 12 String guitar) I don't remember his being given much opportunity to step out and take the lead at last years show. Here he was given two chances and really showed some fine fingerwork (go get 'em, Tony!) Following "Arrakis" was "Hardwinds" which is an older song of Trey's that has been given new life on JOM, then "Rune Song". Now Trey introduced the band members with Mr. Muller garning the loudest applause for his wonderful playing. The next four songs: "Glove", "Tehlekedi", "Brief Encounter" and "Joy of Molybdenum" all from the new album, closed out the show as a "Suite" of pieces flowing one into the other. The guys dispensed with the "going off stage to get a the crowd to yell for an encore" routine and announced that they just wanted to "stay on and keep playing". So, on to an electrifying version of "Dziban" wherein Trey shows off his amazingly fluid tapping style on some extended soloing on the Warr guitar, and finishing with "Kaffal". The crowd roars it's approval, and the guys bow and leave the stage. A wonderful set of amazing new music. "We are the Glove" was displayed over and over on the LED readout on Tony's equipment. He didn't give me a straight answer when pressed for the meaning of this phrase. The band and the audience don't experience the same show the same way. I suppose only they know truly what the music "should" sound like. Listening to this music is a very personal thing for each member of the audience. (and the band) As I said before, if there were conflicts between the band members, they didn't let it show last night, at least not to this blissfully ignorant ear............ all Tony would say when asked about future TGB perfomances was the "there are plans to make plans" for more touring. With the KC tour on the horizon in May, (ten weeks?) the next leg of the TGB tour may have to wait awhile. Cheers, B ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #635 ********************************