Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #628 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 628 Tuesday, 28 December 1999 Today's Topics: NEWS: The *New* Official Pat Mastelotto Homepage Re: Odd-time signatures Re: Elephant Talk #626 "Mindless Banter" KC and "odd" time signatures Re: Honest OpinionS Re: ET a turd? 21st Century Coming UP! Odd-time signatures Odd time signatures King Crimson's silent extra player SB Trio show and other stuff Odd-time signatures Tony Levin pic There are no stupid questions ... Red Least! Least! Norbert Fragg Records! Sheltering Sky TAB or MIDI Guitar Circle in Ventura, CA Odd time signatures... Re: Elephant Talk #627 Great Deceiver Box/ All hail the KCing! Turds, Tripe, Tosh, number Twos, ooooooooonly Talk! Last Days Of The Century Ballistic Music releases just wondering..... sheltering II Michael Giles Projekct box review'd, Eno book FAQ live in Mexico City Fripp solo sound Michael Nyman - Crimson connection Absent Lovers Record ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.5b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 20:17:45 PST From: "stuart allison" Subject: NEWS: The *New* Official Pat Mastelotto Homepage Hi All, On behalf of Pat and myself I invite you to the new Pat Mastelotto homepage at www.pnc.com.au/~wallison/pm.htm Improvements will be being made continuously so visit back regularly! Merry KChristmas, Stuart ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:24:17 -0600 From: Jordan Subject: Re: Odd-time signatures Dan said in the last ET: "(Even 15/16 is only a measure or note length (depends on your critera for rhythmic measuring) from 16/16 which is just 4 bars of 4/4" Actually, one bar of 16/16 is the exact same thing as one bar of 4/4 (which contains four quarter notes, eight eighth notes, sixteen sixteenth notes, etc.). So, playing in 15/16 time would be that each measure would effectively have the last 16th note removed. Jordan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 23:31:51 -0600 From: Gudrun Subject: Re: Elephant Talk #626 "Mindless Banter" >It's time to cut out the mindless banter and start saying "thank you" to all >the gentlemen of Crimso who have so generously provided us with 30-plus >years of some of the best music this world has to offer. Whilst I can certainly agree with this assessment, I have a hard time with this one............. >As >fans who enjoy the band's work, we should listen to them and offer >criticisms constructively or not at all. ........since what criticism is deemed "constructive" is a rather tenuous affair. However, the suggestion should be well taken, nonetheless. We all tend to "revere" our own opinions a bit too much, eh? (....and don`t always consider their impact on others). ~Craig Shropshire PS Still anxiously awaiting for my copy of Projeckts box................ 8^( PPS I have an extra (new) copy of R. Fripp-Let the Power Fall (Definitive Edt.) CD, which is available for $9 (post-paid in U.S.) Please respond by private email. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:06:40 -0800 From: Nic Roozeboom Subject: KC and "odd" time signatures >>Correct me if I'm wrong (I know you will), but I think that Frame by >>Frame is in 2 or 3 ungodly time signatures at the same time!! "In my own analysis" strictly only two, and never at the same time. The piece alternates 4/4 and 7/8. Throughout the latter, a superimposition of two patterns, one 14 16ths and one of 13 16ths is played but the dominant meter is still the 7/8 from which the vocal and one guitar (later drums and bass) are hinged. In other words, 13 doesn't qualify as time signature. I would venture however that the guitarist playing the pattern-in-13 is "thinking" in thirteen while playing, and mentally latches back on to 7/8 at the "intersect". Let's say that anyone capable of playing RF's guitar part while singing the lyrics, deserves some serious tipping of the hat. down by numbers, nic ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 20:47:05 -0500 From: "Jim McLaughlin" Subject: Re: Honest OpinionS "Dave Schroeder" wrote: >Can't you find something better to do with your time >than writting paragraphs of negative remarks on people who are creating >music? No they can't and shouldn't. I can't tell you how many times I've come out of a show that I enjoyed thoroughly, only to have some lame-brained full of himself "person" ('g' rated) rant about how bad some aspects were. Tough if they didn't enjoy it. Maybe this is their expression of joy. Maybe this is their way of feeling more in touch with the music. Maybe they feel more important when they critique things in detail. I LAUGH AT THEM. I WANT MORE OF THESE POSTS! >But don't screw it up for the rest of us. Screw up what???? Do you think that some band member will bail out because of a post to this site, BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHA You take it too seriously. If you don't like the post, move on. Some us like reading the various insights and ramblings of the people who post here. After all they are just expressing -their- opinions. Jim ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 22:59:11 -0500 From: Martin Bradburn Subject: Re: ET a turd? Just to wiegh in on this little controversy (IMHO!!!!): 1. People who live by negativity die by negativity. If your opinion is that you dislike what an artist is doing, offer creative, constructive criticism, not verbal diarrhea, (if it smells like a turd....). that takes no effort at all and just reflects the coarse and sad nature of the critic. ET and the DGM Guest Book provide a great resource to access and connect with what many consider to be some of the most adventurous, creative, changeling music and musicians in the world. Use it wisely the lure of the dark side is very seductive......... I have met Adrian on quite a few occasions and have always found him to be a very personable, gentle soul. Why does it seem that of all the members of KC he gets dissed so much on ET? And his skills and talents as vocalist, songwriter, guitarist and percussionist are questioned at length? To quote Buckaroo "Don't be mean...." I believe this is one of the best and worst feature of the Net. Forums for opinions with the animosity not to have to pay for unfounded verbal masturbation. It's only really enjoyable for the perpetrator or other voyeuristic trash hounds. On the flip side ET is a very cool list that offers many positive (insert all the words to Elephant Talk..). I has provide me with many pertinent pieces of info that have led to some of the most amazing musical and, yes, life experiences. ET has also the possibility of creating great misundestandings in posters as well as readers. Robert has said, and I paraphrase, you have to read all of ET or none, and for the subjects it can be a sort of masochistic endeavor. With respect to Mr Belewbeloid, from Zappa, Talking Heads, Paul Simon, NIN, Bowie, Laurie A,etc., to his solo electric and acoustic, orchestral, rock, pop releases , to his invaluable input and contributions both as a writer and performer in KC, Adrian makes it scream, cry, bang, boom, soar and fly with best of them. He also brings wit and humor that adds a great balance to the feel of this talented, but sometimes too serious troupe.(Although I think Robert is hiarious and should onsider standup as another career 8^) ) Adrian don't let the ET bastards get you down. Their are many her among us who truly appreciate what you have done and continue to do for the music. That is to give it a voice so that those that listen may at least be presented with an opportunity to hear. Whether they choose to do so is up to them. In support, Martin Bradburn PS: I loved your drumming in P2 , and your acoustic interlude at the P2 shows was the bomb! Sorry I missed the "Salad Days" tour! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 01:19:47 EST From: MarkJX at aol dot com Subject: 21st Century Coming UP! Season's Greetings to all ETrs across the globe! I've decided to skip the Millenium hooplah and meet my commitment to do my volunteer radio stint on the Colorado Springs, CO NPR/College station; KRCC on New Year's Eve. I've planned a 4 hour tag-team with the subsequent DJ (I go 10-12PM, she 12-2AM) and in honor of all the hype, and the apparent bust that it is, it will be aptly named; YBOTHER2K?. The normal show title is THE DIFFICULT LISTENING HOUR, after the song by Laurie Anderson, which is the opener, and the end snippet of 1967 from Adrian Belew closes the show weekly. On this occasion, I plan to close the century down with 21CSM, appropriate for the title, as well as the hysterical aggravated unfinished quality of the end of the song. I am looking for further suggestions for Crim-related material for the show from fellow ETers. PLEASE RESPOND TO markjx at aol dot com PRIVATELY. (You're welcome, Toby!) Should the interest and response merit, I will maintain a page of suggestions and ranking that you can all check out. Thanks! Mark J. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 01:38:05 -0500 From: Johnnyroman Subject: Odd-time signatures Roy asked in two ETs ago: "Which songs by King Crimson have similar "odd" time signatures?" "Indiscipline" is a measure of 5/4 then a measure of 6/4, repeated. some say 11/4 but i always lose count, and I consider the 6th beat as a downbeat... well at least thats how it feels so I always consider that the start of a new measure. Maybe there should be a new section in the FAQ with a table of all the songs not in 4/4 and what time signatures occur? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 01:57:58 -0500 From: Johnnyroman Subject: Odd time signatures >>I was telling my boss about the recording of the new King Crimson album, >>and the 15/16 sections. Which songs by King Crimson have similar "odd" >>time signatures? >Correct me if I'm wrong (I know you will), but I think that Frame by >Frame is in 2 or 3 ungodly time signatures at the same time!! I believe the static adrian part is 7/8 and the dynamic fripp likes to drop notes here and there so sometimes he's in 6/8 or 7/8, and the drums are in 7/4. Which is cool because the 1 for every other measure in guitar is on the AND of 4 in the whole picture. adrian: |* 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 *| bruford: |* 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 *| Even though I've only heard Neurotica twice, I think I remeber the middle section (arrive in Neurotica...) being like that as well, guitar in 7/8 and drums in 7/4 Michael Britt http://handstogod.tripod.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 23:32:09 PST From: "Spear man" Subject: King Crimson's silent extra player Managed to give a good run through of the projeKct box set as well as the rieflin/fripp/gunn disc and I can't help but think that P4-levin+Rieflin may be the way for KC to move ahead. Certainly live this may offer the best of both worlds--with a nod to the past and an uncertain future. As a double trio, KC seemed overwhelming live--well yes--that is how it should be :), but what I mean is gone were the days where silence played a part. So little space was left between the notes of 6 amazing players begging/demanding our attention, that the double trio couldn't help but fractilize under the weight of all that is ego. And now that it has fractilized, perhaps silence could become part of the band once again. And I don't mean the absent years. What I remember that I liked most about the 80s King Crimson was it's sheer ability to play at times nearly in total silence and in the same song bring the volume and chaos to near-destruction. With the double trio this dynamic seemed lost or forgotten--not that there wasn't plenty of thraak to go around, but if you removed the thraak what was left? I don't think silence, as there was little room for it in that configuration. I understand why belew is apprehensive and that bruford wants to play acoustic drums elsewhere. I think that the new KC without two drummers would be a vast mistake. KC sorely missed dynamics as a doulbe trio and while I did go see each of the legs, I couldn't help but think that something was missing. Shhhhhhhhh. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 23:51:39 -0800 From: "Stephen L Arnold" Subject: SB Trio show and other stuff Howdy: It's time to de-lurk. By some odd twist of planetary alignment, the CGT (with special guest Tony!) played down in Santa Barbara a while back, and I actually found out before it happened. It was a small bar in Goleta, and we had to sit on the pool table. It was *excellent*. They even had real beer on tap (Red Tail ale from up north). I caught the tail end of their show before the KC at the Wiltern a few years back, but I guess I didn't get a chance to really appreciate them. I also have the RFSQ CD, but I never had any CGT stuff. Not anymore! As soon as the show was over, I bought Pathways (and the guys even signed it - cool) but I couldn't afford any more. I wanted Tony's new CD, but I don't get to carry much cash (I'm married). One of the guys said they were going to appear on Tony's next release, and vice versa. Even cooler. The show was excellent, and so is Pathways. I really like the original stuff (perhaps they could give some of it a little more time to develop?), and the Moonlight Sonata is positively stirring (I heard it twice today, and I can't get it out of my head; but I'm not complaining). On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 22:35:21 EST, "Ron Williams, Jr." said: > It's time to cut out the mindless banter and start saying "thank > you" to all the gentlemen of Crimso who have so generously > provided us with 30-plus years of some of the best music this > world has to offer. I thought (almost) mindless banter was the whole point of this thing. And I'm not sure I feel responsible for the rude behavior of a few lame-asses. I would think that the whole ET thing, the loyal following, etc, would be obvious thanks. If not, Thank You. It's not "some of the best", but rather The Best (what others should aspire to). That said, they must be having one hell of a good time. It took me 15 years of playing music (age 10-25) before I found the right situation, but when I did, it was like nothing else. It's all great, whether it's singing a Haydn mass in latin, or playing some bluegrass out in the woods. In my experience, however, there's nothing like playing (or, in our case, making a valiant attempt) the heavy-duty, progressive (sorry RF), improvisational weirdness that we've all come to associate with KC (and related stuff). Since we scared off about 95% of the people as soon as we started jamming, I'd say we succeeded 8-) In other words, you're not going to convince me that their life is hell. I'd put up with a lot of crap just to experience some of those "in the zone" moments again. But again, Thanks. It's gratifying to see people be at least moderately successful doing something so far outside "normal" parameters (not to mention listening to the fruits of their labors). I could listen to the live '74 stuff going back and forth to work for a solid month... Hey, wait a minute; I have! Steve ************************************************************* Steve Arnold http://www.rain.org/~sarnold Things go better with Linux and King Crimson. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 13:47:15 +0200 From: masse at geocean dot u-bordeaux dot fr (Laurent MASSE) Subject: Odd-time signatures One example comes to mind: the bridge to "The Howler" on Beat is indeed in 15/16. This is achieved just by deleting one sixteenth on a very classical funky riff by AB (or RF, still confused about who plays what!). Complicated only by BB playing alternatively inside and outside of the groove, as usual. Other examples? Maybe the frantic section near the end of Starless, but I should check. And, by the way, just a time signature doesn't mean anything, it heavily depends on the way the musicians feel it and organise their playing inside. If you take the song "Three Of A Perfect Pair", it is arguably one of the most complicated combinations of polyrhythms and endless changes of odd time signatures in KC's repertoire. Yet it sounds so natural many consider it the uninteresting poppy side of the band. To me, this song has always been the achievement of all the work done on Discipline: the experimental side of arrangements applied to a very simple and effective pop-song structure, and you may even dance to it because it is VERY CLEVERLY put together. It could even have been a single! In other terms, you will dance to 15/16 if the musicians groove inside, you won't dance to 4/4 if the musicians are crap (I won't cite examples, too many of them). Laurent Masse masse at geocean dot u-bordeaux dot fr ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 11:05:36 -0500 From: "Dave Fisher" Subject: Tony Levin pic Hello ET, I would like to take the opportunity to announce my new website. Of particular interest here is my photograph of Tony Levin. The photo was snapped at the Toronto K.C. concert in 1995. There are many other musical artists profiled on the site as well. Go to http://home.golden.net/~tekapo -- navigation to the photograph should be straight-forward by viewing the thumbnails. Tony is near the top. Any feedback on the site from ET members is greatly appreciated. Cheers, Dave Fisher Waterloo, Ontario, Canada ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 09:03:19 -0800 From: "NeutronJuan" Subject: There are no stupid questions ... ... only stupid people. Having laid out that bit of insight, here is my list of less than burning questions: 1. Are we not *reasonable fanatics* of King Crimson ? 2. Will the next King Crimson album include a song titled Elephant Turd ? 3. Will the title of the next King Crimson album be the sound of an Elephant Turd ? 4. Robert Fripp mentions in his diary a section of music in 6/16. Why would this section of music be in 6/16 rather than in 3/8 ? 5. If the section of music mentioned in the proceeding question rocks, does the proceeding question *count* as a math rock question ? 6. Is Robert Fripp exposing items in his diary with the intention to punch the buttons of Gary Davis ? Your less than burning answers to these questions would be appreciated. Adios amigos ! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 11:57:07 -0500 From: Jon Blessington Subject: Red I think RED is the best damned album I ever heard. I did hear Larks Tongue, Schiziod, and most of the other King Crimson albums, but RED is my definite favorite. It's sad that most artists today can't even hold a tooth-pick to King Crimson's insane and provacative talent. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 15:26:14 EST From: Bknt at aol dot com Subject: Least! Least! Norbert Fragg Records! Dear Team, Our margarita main-lining, basement dwelling, jargon-quoting guitarist, Norbert Fragg, continues to enter the world. Our trusty but slightly rusty Heavy Metal Ax Grinder has been of late "vibrating" (I use the quotation marks to inspire thoughts of that nasty little battery-operated household appliance employed as a technological aid to lower chakra stimulation, with the suggestion that a cognitive reverberation may link man and machine) in Gnashville, that traffic snarled, hillbilly burg of bad architecture, beer guts, red pickup trucks, cowboy hats that real cowboys would never wear and bosomy millionaire songstresses who just the sweeeetest people, where he is making a new Glazed Krumpet album with his electrodrummer Mat Lotsapasta, distempered stickster Out Trey, and singwriter, guitarist and recording studio entrepreneur Mondrian Bayou. News of the recording, tentatively titled Confusion of the Putz, has set Net natterers nattering, chat chatterers chattering, journalists a' journeying and beasts a' beasting as Fragg and his Merry Dudes wrestle with expectation, anticipation, expectoration and more than a little constipation, as these purloined diary excerpts reveal: The septic tank pumped afresh, the Morning Shift is disrupted. Mondrian Bayou, having spent several hours in his royal water closet, shattered the dreary damp with cries "Eureka!" and burst forth, in a fit of ecstatic glee, rushed like a later day Archimedes into the basement chamber where he collided with the Sitting Gigster. Tangled in a web of bathroom stationery upon which the Cranially Cropped Bayou had pencilized the words to the lasted stinkerI mean stomper, no, I mean, stonker--that Mat and Bill the Gyro were twerning, burning, Richard-Rodgers-and-Jerome-Kerning in the garage, the Gigster, ever so tetchy and slightly smacked, flung forth a series of polysyllables relating to surprise, annoyance and disgust pertaining to the malodorous fumes accompanying Mondrian's arrival. "That," Mondrian proclaimed, poking his pencil at a print-out of the latest ET, "is a real TURD!" The Gigster, shaken and stirred (but neither bottled or bonded), replied that the object under observation was, in fact, if not intact, "a context of intransigent retroactionary differentials applied in an anarchic, implausibly collapsing dispensation of mutually incongruent appositional referents, while THAT," the Gigster paused to point at a foul and fetid blob upon my chamber floor, the apparent result of Mondrian's explosive voidus interruptus, "is a turd." Thus the new title of what had previously been referred to as Heavy ObstruKction, was renamed "Pachyderm Poop," with Mondrian happily hobbling to his dictionary for alliterative insight: "Floater. Feces. Font of fundament! It's only....poop!" The past-50 Gigster was left to contemplate, as a reminder to all who read these diaries and reflect upon the hesitations and complications inherent in the life of professional musician and occasional participant in matters Krumpet, an unusually appropriate aphorism first heard in 1985 at the Guitar Wonk Level II session at the Claypot Institute for Higher Lowering, typically used to explain why participants must sit in the dark with an unlit candle after consuming a vegetarian dinner of select legumes in piquant chili sauce; this same aphorism also explains the paradoxical relationship between the performer and the audience when one knows that one doesn't know if the venue's plumbing works, and the role of inspiration in mass culture: Ask not for whom the bowel tolls; some things you just don't want to know. Bill Kent ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 15:27:44 -0500 From: "Wilmoth, Jim" Subject: Sheltering Sky TAB or MIDI I have searched high and low for Sheltering Sky Tab or Midi file, but with no success. Is anybody currently working on it by chance? Jim ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 15:40:33 -0500 From: "Wilmoth, Jim" Subject: Guitar Circle in Ventura, CA I've been looking for some fellow crafties, in the Ventura, CA with little success. If there is one or if there is enough to interest to start one I'd be interested in hearing from you. Jim ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 22:45:19 +0200 From: "Toni Suominen" Subject: Odd time signatures... Hello! Lewis Southers wrote: >Correct me if I'm wrong (I know you will), but I think that Frame >by >Frame is in 2 or 3 ungodly time signatures at the same time!! Yes, in the original version on Discipline the song starts with a 4/4 thing. And over it Fripp plays a very fast riff that goes in... I don't know how should I say this... I think it's 6/16 or 12/8, depends on how you think it. Anyway, it's a riff that can be divided by three, a triplet riff played over the normal 16th notes. And then the second section, the section Crimson starts live versions of this song with. The other riff is in 7/8 and the other in 7/8 and 6/8 played alternately. And if you want an odd time signature song, you should listen the song Discipline. That song is a monster of odd time signatures. The song starts with a 5/8 riff and over it Bruford plays a CRAZY beat: The bass drum goes in 4/4 and the thing played with hands is in 17/16 or something like that, I haven't been able to figure it out. (BTW, if somebody has a transcription or knows better how this song goes with drums, can you please let me know, you can E-mail privately). And later in the song there time signatures like 5/16, 6/16 and other... Toni Suominen tono at mbnet dot fi ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 00:29:45 -0600 From: Gudrun Subject: Re: Elephant Talk #627 Great Deceiver Box/ All hail the KCing! >For those of you hesitant to pick up this box set, and I certainly fit >into this category, don't be! The improv's are incredible, and the >variation in playing within structured songs is great as well. Hopefully >this will be rereleased on DGM in early 2000. As for sonic quality, I >have heard others rag these recordings. Granted there is some tape hiss >in the very quiet passages and the walk on Pussyfooting excerpts are >barely audible, but the music itself is so dynamic and very well >recorded. In particular, as dynamic as the bass and drum interplay is, >it is not at any point overloaded and distorted on these recordings. The >engineer may have cut a few songs short, but he captured the KC glory >without clipping and compressing it to death. The dynamics are very much >there - enough to rattle the windows one moment and then to the quietest >calm the next. And the telepathy and experimentation between the >musicians is first rate. ABSOLUTE INDEED! Why would anyone hesitate (except for financial reasons, of course)? These are easily amongst the very best live KC recordings available. I saw this line-up in Chicago. Utterly amazing!... & each rendition here offers many new things. If nothing else it`s absolutely essential just for the incredible lengthy improvs. ...... Doubtless as important as *any* Krimson recording for the true fan. It includes an immense booklet jammed w/ photos & info., too. The sonics are just fine throughout. No reason to grumble there. Wetton`s fuzz-bass never sounded so monstrous before!!! It all screams apotheosis! That this is OOP is simply a travesty. I just received my Projeckts box & the P-1 disc is perhaps the closest we`ll get to hearing these days of yore (above-mentioned direction w/ plenty of the majesticly intense Fripper-sustain guitar we know & love), & w/ Billy & Tony laying down a gloriously powerful foundation. BB in particular seems highly charged. P-1 was a delight. Too sad that it is no more............ P-3 (the Texas shows..........) A nice surprise was to see alot of the performance by P-3 which I attended in Dallas included here, along with some of the subsequent shows at two venues in Austin. To sit nearly in front, in a very small & intimate blues club setting (Poor David`s Pub in Dallas) w/ a seating arrangement consisting of maybe 7 rows of folding chairs, was too ideal for words. No smoking allowed,of course. 8^) (Mr. Fripp wouldn`t have it). One could *not ask* for better listening environs.........OR a better example of contemporary "progressive" music. What other band is leading so boldly into the future & never compromising their integrity ???? If there`s another, I need to hear them. ~Craig ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 14:06:40 +0000 From: Peter Clinch

Subject: Turds, Tripe, Tosh, number Twos, ooooooooonly Talk! In ET #627 Gary Davis wrote: > Why does everything automatically and immediately go into the on-line diary? Is it not the case that it goes into The Diary, which just happens to be published online? I get the impression that there isn't a separate online diary, so if it goes in to the personal diary, that's what you read. As to why RF feels the need to present it in full, the other side of the question would be "why should it be editied, and given the different audiences reading it, how can one reasonably draw the line as to what comes out?" choices, choices... Pete. -- Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net p dot j dot clinch at dundee dot ac dot uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 18:18:09 -0500 From: "Peter.K.Geddes" Subject: Last Days Of The Century Those looking for music to be played at the end of this century should look no further than "Last Days Of The Century", an album by one of Robert Fripp's guitar students, Al Stewart. The album was released in 1988 and includes backing vocals by then-unknown pop chanteuse Toi Amos. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 04:25:56 -0700 From: "owen temby" Subject: Ballistic Music releases Hello ETers, Although I don't read ET regularly, my sense is that a lot of really great music that might have an audience with ET subscribers is going unnoticed. More specifically, the music being released by Steve Ball and Ballistic Music. This ET contribution represents my enthusiasm for this music and my wish for it to be exposed to a larger audience. Here are some reviews of my favorites: Steve Ball/Greenthumb - This is the newest SB album, recorded live in Argentina in 1997 and performed with a League of Crafty Guitarists type of line-up. It contains mostly songs from the SB catalog, plus a few covers--including a scorching acoustic version of Genesis' "Back in NYC" This is a very accessible album and, I think, a great place for starters. Steve Ball/The Breathing Field - This is my favorite Ballistic release and one of my favorite albums released all year. It appeals to the same part of my musical taste as Peter Hammill and David Sylvian do. Simple acoustic songs with an emphasis on the vocals. A bit dark, and very intimate. Steve Ball/Ballistic - Basically, two songs that were built upon pre-existing material, performed a few times each in different styles. All right, that's a bad description--you'll just have to hear it for yourself. It has kind of an ambient/techno feel to it. I love it. Seattle Guitar Circle/Twilight - A very recent release and an absolute essential for the Guitar Craft music enthusiast. I suspect that this would probably be a DGM release if the SGC wasn't a locally based performance team. This is an album of great acoustic guitar playing with very strong compositions. I think that fans of the California Guitar Trio might especially enjoy this. Electric Gauchos/Blue Orb - This is a live album of Guitar Craft material performed electrically with drums. Now why wasn't this released on DGM? I initially had trouble enjoying this one, but it really grew on me. For me, it's best when listened to *LOUD*, and in a big room. It should appeal to King Crimson fans and CGT fans who don't mind Paul's burning solo at the beginning of the "Train to Lamy Suite". I *know* that this is SB's favorite album in his catalog. The SB solo albums all have vocals and the other two are instrumental. They are inexpensive ($10 plus $1.50 S&H), and can be purchased online at www.steveball.com or www.seattlecircle.com. These are some of my favorite albums that I've bought all year. All are *highly* recommended. Owen Temby ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 18:08:06 -0200 From: "carlos h moller" Subject: just wondering..... hi you there ! well, we had: - Fripp, Gunn, Bruford & Levin - Fripp, Gunn & Belew - Fripp, Gunn, Mastelotto & Levin - Fripp, Gunn & Mastelotto what if there was a Fripp, Belew, Levin & Bruford projekct ? what would we get from this one ? another Discipline ? yet, just wondering...... carlos h moller brazil ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 18:12:51 -0200 From: "carlos h moller" Subject: sheltering II i can't remember who said that one, but if you have P3 Mask 8, and if you start it around 2:20, you'll hear quite the same harmonic sequence of Sheltering Sky. don't believe it ? put your Discipline CD on you player and start Sheltering Sky around 3:00. that's it ! i don't know what's happening, but we have this one, and Lark's IV and V ( now Fractured !! )... kind of deja vroom, don't you think ? carlos h moller brazil ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 18:28:38 EST From: PDKuhn at aol dot com Subject: Michael Giles Hello. Can you please let me know (so that I can let fellow King Crimson fans know) what in world became of Michael Giles! There has nevewr been a drummer like him in all of rock and roll. Thanks Paul Kuhn ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 07:40:08 -0500 From: "Peter Shindler" Subject: Projekct box review'd, Eno book Hey gang, I picked up the Projekct box this past week and finally had some time to listen to it. So... like a lot of Crimson's less, uh, compromising releases, there are a lot of great moments and a lot of dreck. I got mine for $30 at Newbury Comics; it's well worth it. What's been particularly striking to me is how very different each lineup sounds; it's been suggested here that P1 owes a lot to the large-scale improvs of Larks-Tongue-era Crimson, obviously due to Bruford's overwhelming presence, but there are also long stretches that seem to have been imported directly from the BLUE sessions- aside from the always-impressive, always-weird Bruford-Levin polyrhythmic machine, note that there's a lot more guitar soloing and less ambient synth-looping than on P2-4. This one's exciting and unpredictable while it also looks back nostalgically at Crimsons past. P2 is the most fun and quirky of all P's, no doubt due to Adrian. "Live Groove" makes an interesting companion piece to "Space Groove," which I really enjoyed once I stopped trying to hear Crimson in it. P2 is also the only Projekct that had anything resembling a repertoire, and they had much more time to live with these pieces; it shows. There's a polish and "togetherness" to this one that's lacking on the other discs, but maybe at the expense of the unpredictability and danger that the other P's have; the unpredictability that comes when nobody, not even the musicians, know what can possibly happen next, and the danger that it could all fall apart in the next instant. P3's "Masque" sounds somewhat related to ThrakAttak; specifically, I think "Masque" is ThrakAttak's younger brother, who grew up listening to the same John Cage and Ornette Coleman albums as his bigger bro, but now he wears baggy pants and likes to go out clubbing. I really admire the cajones it took for Fripp, Gunn, and Mastellotto to even attempt music like this, even if the results are less than totally successful; it sounds like a first attempt at a new music that's taking its own sweet time to develop, and I think when the new Crimson album is done and available to us, this one will make a lot more sense. Also, this album might be the first Crimson-related offering wherein Mastellotto really asserts his territory and shows the world what he can do; his assimilation of the V-drums and other assorted "knobs and buttons" is stunning, and the production job is wonderful to behold. Finally, it makes me wonder what this band would sound like if they had a singer who could improvise alongside the instrumentalists, someone like Mike Patton or maybe even Bjork? I haven't listened to P4 in as much detail as the first three; it's nice to hear Tony Levin (hopefully not in his Crimson swan-song) providing something musical and "woody" in the midst of all the digitalia. I'm excited to hear what a fully-digital KC can do, but I hope they don't forget how good simple vibrating strings on a wood-bodied instrument can sound, as Levin subtly reminds us throughout this disc. Incidentally, I also found a copy of Eric Tamm's book on Brian Eno, "His Music and the Vertical Color of Sound," all gussied up and re-released by Da Capo. It's got some useful insights into the man's way of approaching music and recording, as well as lots of details on his ambient works with Fripp. Recommended. Peter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 19:56:59 EST From: NotoriousAWOL at aol dot com Subject: FAQ Hello! My name is Tom and I'm new to being online. Looking through ET's "FAQ" section I noticed the question, "Where was "USA" recorded?" I can tell you with some degree of assurance that it was indeed recorded at Convention Hall, Asbury Park, N.J. because I had the pleasure of being there. I took a bus all the way from Newark and had to stay overnight there. How excited I was to, having followed the band from the beginning for hearing hints of the music locked inside me, Finally bei ng rewarded for my patience and faith with so-unique-and-ahead-of-its-time-we-stll-can-hardly-believe-it "Lark's Tongues" and still reeling from the incredible power of the just months before released "Starless" be on my way to see the King. Fripp! Bruford! And who was this guy Wetton? Being a bassist I was particularly awed by his power, presence, and non-stop riffing. That night was indelibly etched in my memory. Just about a year later the release of "USA" confirmed my impression of the concert. Yup, take it from an earwitness. "USA" was 6/28/74, Convention Hall, Asbury Park,N.J. I'll always have both. Tom is also known as NotoriousAWOL at aol dot com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 23:02:20 +0100 From: marco bisello Subject: live in Mexico City Hi there, is there a way to convert the file of "Live in Mexico City" in .wav to record it on cd? Thanks ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 21:36:29 -0800 From: s Subject: Fripp solo sound Hello, I was wondering if any of you knew what equipment and settings Robert Fripp uses to get his smooth, full solo guitar sound as heard in the solo in the Nightwatch song on Starless and Bible Black. It is also a distinctive guitar solo sound he uses on some of the solos on the League of Gentlemen 1980 official bootleg and most notably on some of the songs on Brian Eno's Another Green Planet. When he uses this solo sound he also plays a lot of trills and seems to be soloing in pentatonic or a Japanese sounding scale. I think his guitar also has this sound sometimes when he plays ambient Frippertronics. Does anyone know what I mean? I really like this guitar sound, and wonder how it is achieved. Thanks a lot, Steven ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 18:32:52 +0000 From: Russell Whitworth Subject: Michael Nyman - Crimson connection Reading the sleeve-notes for Michael Nyman's "After Extra Time", I've found a surprising and mystifying KC reference. The topic is "Memorial", Nyman's extraordinary piece dedicated to the Heysel Stadium victims, and better known as the theme to "The Cook, The Thief, His Wife & Her Lover". Referring to the first performance, the sleeve notes say: "The orchestra was the largest Nyman has worked with, 15 strong, the string and horn sections backed up by electric guitar and bass, and a drummer who used to be with King Crimson." The studio recording on the CD has no drummer, hence no credit for a drummer. So who was it? And, for that matter, who was the guitarist? -- Russell Whitworth http://www.anchorag.demon.co.uk/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 04:40:07 PST From: "stuart allison" Subject: Absent Lovers Record Hi, A friend of mine recently bought a record entitle Absent Lovers. It contains some of the tracks off the recent Cd release: Red Matte Kudasai Three of a Perfect Pair Indiscipline Sartori in Tangier Frame by Frame Man with an Open Heart Sleepless Heartbeat Elephant Talk These all seem to be in same order as appear on cd without half of the tracks and seeing as I am yet to purchase the disc I do not know if they are the same. The only distinguishing feature that I can find on first listen from any other 80s performances I have heard is a part in Sleepless (all right get a hold of yourself....) where Tony stops playing and its just TL and AB singing to BBs drums. Does this help? I would like to know if it is the same recording and if it is an official out of print release. It has a red cover with a picture of AB and RF in trenchcoats with suitcases and on the back has 3 pics, TL, BB and AB & RF hugging with an interview with Fripp & belew. Thanks in advance, Stuart Come visit the *new* official Pat Mastelotto page at: www.pnc.com.au/~wallison/pm.htm ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #628 ********************************