Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #624 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 624 Wednesday, 1 December 1999 Today's Topics: NEWS: New additions to DGM USA mail order Reiflin / Fripp / Gunn Rimitti with Fripp / Flea More ProjeKct babble/burble/banter Everything You Know Is Wrong Saturday Night Live Projekcts Over-Review/DGM re: Saturday Night Live Ian McDonald interview Re: Projekcts box; audiences, Fripp and cameras Re: Bootleg? on RA Six random thoughts a visual joke from P4! Change for the sake of change, PX quandry Christian apologist quotes Crim RE: Last Yes Bruford New Bruford CD / Crimson in MOJO / responses to ET 623. Re: Cardboard Cd Covers (Elephant Talk #623) The Repurcussions of Angelic Behavior RE: Tony's Pics Re: Elephant Talk #623 Brain Confusion dissipated Fripp liner notes/Robin Trower/John Paul Jones Looking for Karl Johnston Crimso bootleg in Vladivostok in the court of the crimson care live recordings trade CC Box LIVE IN MEXICO CITY RE : About the Remastered "In the court of the Crimson King" CD. KC CC For Sale A new JazzRockWeb starts 21st Century Schizoid Pumpkin WARNING: Small, mobile, intelligent (?) self-promotion follows Zoom Club 72 KC Live at the Zoom Club '72 Any Canadians in DGM Collector's Club? Fritz Lang's Metropolis & KC King Crimson Live Video - with J. Muir! FWD:Doctor Diamond Projekct GIG REVIEW: 11/16 Newport RI ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.5b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 03:03:44 EST From: DanKirkd at aol dot com Subject: NEWS: New additions to DGM USA mail order Just a quick word to let you know that DGM USA has added Steve Hancoff's "Duke Ellington for Solo Guitar" release to their online mail ordering offerings, as well as the re-mastered "Sacred Songs" release from Daryl Hall. Dan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 13:04:59 -0300 From: "SYNCHRO, RONALD VOGEL" Subject: Reiflin / Fripp / Gunn Hi everyone If you really like the Projekcts and can't wait until KC releases new studio material. Well, you don't have to wait too much. Order now the new Reiflin / Fripp / Gunn CD and delight yourself with more Projekct like music. Very powerful. There are no songs titles (tough it has 10 lasting 53 minutes all together), no credits and no nothing. The only warning written in the media itself says "Random mode is required for full effect". Very nice surprise from Fripp / Gunn. Cheers Ronald Vogel ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 13:17:01 -0300 From: "SYNCHRO, RONALD VOGEL" Subject: Rimitti with Fripp / Flea Some 5 years ago a friend of mine who used to be a belly dancer brought me some arab music as soundtrack. She used to have my company while privately rehearsing at my place. What a pleasure. What really amazed me, besides her beauty, was how powerful the arab music sounded. Very rich instruments and very powerful singing. I tought to myself that if any real good rock musician would want to fuse it with powerful guitar riffs the result would be fantastic. Time passed by and nothing happened... until last friday when i was listening to a traded tape that has a KC show from nv 72 with Muir. As a filler Mr Howard Brotine recorded some material from an 1995 album by called "Sheika" recorded by a guy / group / singer (who knows?) called Rimitti having Robert Fripp and Flea (who the hell is Flea?) as collaborators. Not only i had my desire fulfilled, but it came along with soundscapes, guitar solos and Fripp riffs. Marvellous surprise. I immediately ordered the CD. If someone has addittional information on the stuff please write me privately. Cheers Ronald Vogel ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 12:43:31 -0500 (EST) From: andy dean Subject: More ProjeKct babble/burble/banter Just received my ProjeKct box set, and I can say that the P1 CD was worth the $40 alone. Not so sure about the others ... I have been ravenously awaiting the Jazz Cafe release for nearly 2 years now, and it did not disappoint me. Some have asked "Is it the acoustic drums?" "Is it Bruford?" It's BOTH--and Tony Levin, of course, that make P1 stand out. Levin and Bruford go together like ketchup and french fries, and Gunn and Fripp are in their element as well. I wouldn't mind seeing some more P1 in the form of club releases. I do think Live Groove is considerably better than Space Groove (which was about 1 1/2 CDs too long), but that really isn't saying much. Heavy ConstruKction (is anybody else getting tired of sticking the letter "K" into words in which it doesn't belong?) sounds OK, and the novelty version of 21CSM is a diverting 2 minutes, but that's about it. There are a couple of tracks that sound reminiscent of Space Groove II (or whatever the hell starts off the Space Groove album), and I was glad to hear that. P3: Inconclusive. Sounds pretty good, but I think I'll have to listen to it a few more times before I decide if this is what I want the future of King Crimson to sound like. (I will say that I hope Masque 3 finds its way onto the new album.) I like what I'm hearing from P4. I still don't know about the V-Drums, though--I agree with the post that stated they should sound more like DRUMS than flatulence, computer blips, etc. I'm anxious to see how they sound in songs that are a little more structured. All this V-Drum improv has me feeling a little overloaded. Now, to go play the Great Deceiver ... --Andy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 18:44:25 -0500 From: Travis Flower Subject: Everything You Know Is Wrong Many ET fans seem to be jumping on certain bandwagons, so I'll just play devil's advocate and everyone can comment on how wrong I am. Hey! I love electronic percussion. Ok, fine, just like everyone else, I actually think acoustic percussion belongs at the center of any rock band. But and am I the only person who caught how the vdrums enabled Belew to lock in a bass line impossibly tightly into the rest of his one-man rhythm section in P2? Am I the only one who wet my pants when I heard Mastelotto's integration of DnB rhythms into the P4 show? Of course P1 is incredible: Duh! It sounds exactly like I'd expect an improv Crimson jam to sound. Yet in contrast, P3 and P4 are SURPRISING. I am now a Mastelotto convert. (Join us: it's bliss...) Personally, I think the idea suggested in the P4 liner notes is excellent: a whole series of undergound P4 techno remix CDs. (I want to hear a news story about how some teen at a rave had an aneurysm from dancing to a 40 minute jungle version of Ghost.) Don't bother to tell me that that's the worst idea you ever heard; no one will ever produce such a monster. Rest easy. Oh yeah. And P2 totally funked the house. Anyone who suggests otherwise has the soul of either a ribbon clerk or a poultroon. I was so damn close I could hear Fripp's pick hit the strings before he swelled in the note with the volume pedal. That's more intimacy than I've had on some decent dates. Travis ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 15:51:39 -0800 From: Nic Roozeboom Subject: Saturday Night Live >Anybody else catch approx 5 secs of LTiA I on >SNL this w/e? (One of the parts similar to >the section between 3:39 and 3:56.) Absolutely! How could we miss a full five seconds? I think I only caught on during the last of those: Fripp skysawing into a scene where the Devil (Will Ferrell) appears out of smoke to purchase the soul of jailbird and failed rocker turned desperate (character played by Garth Brooks) for a few, it appears, pretty pathetic "monster hits". Inspired choice of score - clearly by somebody who knows his demonically-inclined music and not the result of a search engine. Nic ------------------------------ Date: 16 Nov 99 16:54:55 -0800 From: "David Voci" Subject: Projekcts Over-Review/DGM Dear Friends, Just wanted to pass along my feelings about the recently issued King Crimson set entitled 'The Projekcts'. This set is beautiful in design...Great packaging and artwork(PJ Crook)...Very nice box to hold the four cd's...there's something almosts intoxicating about the packaging on this and Epitaph...something about the cardboard stock or something...real quality material and box design. Exceptional quantity of pics/info/gig schedule/diaries/etc...not a plethora of Fripp ramblings about the business save for a few notes in each booklet(abbreviated ramblings). To my ears and mind, this set is really what I think King Crimson is in the nineties and what one should associate with the moniker of KC when discussing the Crims. What I'm trying to say is that THIS IS KING CRIMSON. Live At The Jazz Cafe is probably my favorite disc...very moody, ambiental, textured, diverse and moves you along gently while hooking you subtly. Live Groove is probably the most lukewarm of all four but still listenable and the longest of the four(64 or 67 minutes). The riff from Space Groove(the song Space Groove) is very prevalent throughout this disc and shows up now and again of other discs in the set. Masque is up and down...minimal soft spots/non descript passages but this disc shows the maturing of the Projekcts...Moodiness/Minimalism/Soundscaping are all present here and this is probably the most surreal of the four. West Coast Live is good shit...alot of improv...'The Ghost' songs that start and finish the disc are most noteworthy and overall a great ending to the set. My review is pretty lame, admittedly, with higher focus on the first disc as this is the one I start with when listening to the set and usually listen to them all in a row if something doesn't come up to take me away...The same is true of Great Deceiver...If I decide to listen to it, the whole set usually has to be heard. DGM/America and in general, seems to need a major overhaul by the looks of alot of emails of late. I bought my set through a local shop and left there only having spent 30 dollars total. No 15% shipping....The only downside to me getting it this way was the wait but no big deal. I have had good luck with DGM America but the shipping charges really have to go. I am also sympathetic to others who have been given the runaround by DGM and my only suggestion is to get your local store to order it and hope they don't mark it up too much. Enjoy Everything, dv ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 02:02:44 -0500 From: Mathias Thallmayer Subject: re: Saturday Night Live Yes, I heard it. BTW, it was used to underscore the appearance of the Devil. He came to buy the soul of a unknown musician (played by Garth Brooks) in return for a hit song. An amusing Crimso reference. -- Mathias tarkus at mindspring dot com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 02:08:32 -0500 From: Mathias Thallmayer Subject: Ian McDonald interview There is an interview with Ian McDonald in the NOV. '99 issued of 20th Century Guitar. The theme of issue is "The Class of '69 - Then and Now" and relates a number of groups who released albums in that year and who have albums out now. Cover includes KC, Yes, Tull, and Procol Harum. -- Mathias tarkus at mindspring dot com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 11:15:19 +0000 From: Peter Clinch

Subject: Re: Projekcts box; audiences, Fripp and cameras In ET #623, Ron Chrisley typed: > In Fripp's defence, I suppose he could claim that he asked us not to take > photos, while no one asked Tony not to. Surely if an audience member asked > Tony not to take their picture, he would comply?! I see this angle, but am > not entirely persuaded: who would have thought that the performers would be > taking photos of the crowd, in order to ask in advance not to snap? I think it's in "Beyond the Bass Clef", but may have been in one of Tony's Road Diaries, that he has asked, and been turned down, about taking pictures at sessions (the John Lennon ones?). So it seems he does bother about it. As to "who would have thought it", anyone who is remotely aware of Tony's concert habits. A bit like Fripp can assume from past behaviour that people will want to take flash photography, one can assume similarly that Tony will probably be snapping (and often in such a way that gets into the sleeve notes of releases, so it benefits a wider community). And, of course, if you don't want to put up with the bassist's dreadfully uncouth behaviour, you can exercise the option to leave, just as RF does! Pete. -- Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net p dot j dot clinch at dundee dot ac dot uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 11:44:26 +0000 From: John Peacock Subject: Re: Bootleg? on RA Tony Evans said: > I was listening to the Orange Sunshine RealAudio channel tonight, and heard what > sounded like an alternate take of the studio version of "The Court of the Crimson > King". The structure of this version of the song was essentially the same as the > released version, > but the recording had some important differences. Is this a BBC session version? It sounds like it from your description. I thought they had released the BBC session stuff (they seem to have released everything else), and I'm sure they did a version of ITCOFKC. I have a tape of it somewhere (recorded from Tommy Vance's Friday Rock Show sometime in 1980, nostalgia fans), but would probably not find it quickly, since my place is so untidy I have difficulty finding my sofa. If it was from a BBC session, I think it would be played live, but in a studio. Does this help? John Peacock ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 14:18:42 +0000 From: Russell Whitworth Subject: Six random thoughts Random thought 1: I think the California Guitar Trio missed a trick in the naming of their live CD. My suggested title: "In Support of the Crimson King". Random thought 2: There is currently a debate going on as to the most suitable music to perform in the Millennium Dome during the closing minutes of the year/century/millennium, at the celebrations being hosted by the Queen. High on the list of nominations are Robbie Williams - Millennium, The Beatles - All You Need is Love, John Lennon - Imagine, and Prince - 1999. I think all of these are wrong. What better than "21st Century Schizoid Man", performed by a once-only collaboration of all current and former members of King Crimson. I'm sure it would blow the lid off the Dome, and Her Majesty would surely enjoy it. However, R.Fripp should be restrained from performing his version of the national anthem, which would be far too confusing for the audience to know whether and when to stand, sit, dance, applaud, or take photographs. Random thought 3: I also prefer the Collectors Club release of ProjeKCt 4 to the boxed set. It might be that I prefer it when the music is given more space to breathe, rather than relentlessly plastering me against the rear wall. I sense that Pat's preferences are for the noisier pieces. Random thought 4: I hope the KC2000 crew in Nashville take time to listen again to some of the ProjeKCt 1 and ProjeKCt 4 material, so as not to miss out on the R&D input from Bill and Tony. Random thought 5: Twice last night, when listening to ProjeKCt 4, I was convinced that I was hearing a surround-sound mix. Although I have a 5-channel system at home, I normally listen to music in conventional stereo. But P4 was definitely giving me strong images from the sides and rear. So much so, that I had to reach for the rear speakers to make sure that they were really turned off! This led me to wonder when we can expect so see some 5.1 mixes of the current material? P4 would be wonderful in this mode, particularly where it combines solo instruments with washes of soundscapes. An audio-only DVD, or a DTS CD in a 5.1 mix would suit me just fine. Random thought 6: Careful listening to all four disks of "Epitaph" reveals the seeds of many Crimson tracks from the following four or five studio albums. I wonder if, in years to come, we will look back on the ProjeKCt recordings in the same way, and be able to spot the genesis of new ideas. -- Russell Whitworth Home home page: http://www.anchorag.demon.co.uk/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 14:25:10 -0600 From: Rex dot W dot Fermier at ucm dot com Subject: a visual joke from P4! My good friend, John Leeson, Jr., a raving King Crimson fan, has pointed out what appears to be a visual "joke" on the back cover of the "Roar of P4" CD. I'll pause while you pull out your copy and scan the picture of Bob's electronics, peddles, etc. Note all of the cables on the floor. Then observe that there is only one single plug in the wall outlet! For those of you that get the joke, great! For those who don't, try plugging everything in your house into one outlet. Then wait for the fire brigade to explain it to you. Rex Fermier The quality of the question determines the quality of the answer. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 15:45:40 EST From: Hocow at aol dot com Subject: Change for the sake of change, PX quandry Howdy, Let me give a hearty here here to Gabriel Boeme on his last post in reaction to a previous post that expressed concern the new Crim would be a step backwards. Sometimes KC leaves a rich field unplowed for the sake of avoiding repetition. I'm not a reactionary who says they are no good since losing Iangregmichaelpetermel- johndavidbilltony. I am speaking only of compositions. While it is always exciting to see a great leap forward where the band totally reinvents itself, there is nothing wrong with taking these new directions and refining them for an album or too. I think Thrak would have been better if the band (imho) was not being so careful not to retread the ground they covered in the 80's. This is not to ignore Vroom and Vroom Vroom's debt to Red. It's more that they abandoned boo bams and interlocking guitars to avoid getting into a rut. If the new band is going to revisit KC's 70's roots with an altered lineup the end product should be a fresh take on a proven commodity. I'm all for it. The same with bringing back the 80's guitar structure. Here the band created a whole new rock vocabulary that has room for development in a great number of pieces. A new ball to kick around:How do you want your ProjeKct X? Download? Collector's Club? My suggestion would be make the new cd a double album. One of Crim and one of PX. My second choice would be a separate conventional release ala Thrakkattak. As a KCCC member I would be equally well served by a club release but I hate to see non members left out on new material which would have wide appeal within the greater Crimhead fraternity. This matter might be better addressed in the guestbook but I am too computer illiterate to figure out the proper way to reply to the security verification they require to print a post. Just something that might be interesting to kick around. The lads may or may not appreciate the input. Out. Brad Wilmot ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 19:35:50 -0500 From: Jason Nickey Subject: Christian apologist quotes Crim Of note to some, maybe... Ravi Zacharias, a Indian born Christian apologist, has a web site (www.rzim.com) on which he posts Realaudio recordings of his sermons, debates, college open forums, etc. Besides quoting C.S. Lewis, G.K. Chesterton and the like, he has often quoted King Crimson songs while making some particular point or the other. One message that springs to mind at the moment is called "Understanding the Spirit of the Age" in which he quotes "Epitaph" while making a point on the modern condition of man. But I've heard him quote Crim a number of times, frequently enough that it's obvious that he's a fan. The only other band I've ever heard him mention is the Moody Blues, but only in passing. I thought this might be interesting to Crimheads of the faith. Later, Jason Nickey ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 16:44:04 PST From: "S Sautter" Subject: RE: Last Yes Bruford Actually, Bruford's last Yes appearence was on 1993's Symphonic Music of Yes. Bruford played on all but one of the ten tracks. Steve Howe was also on the entire album and Jon Anderson did vocals on 'Roundabout' only. And to prove just how small an island England is, Alan Parsons produced and engineered the orchestral recordings. It really is a great album and recommend it to all. -Steven ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 19:49:15 -0500 From: James Beard Subject: New Bruford CD / Crimson in MOJO / responses to ET 623. Hi there. I Pete Lockett's Network of Sparks featuring Bill Bruford. I haven't seen anything about this project in ET so I thought I'd mention it (even if it is a bit late). I was in Bristol this last weekend, and one of the main reasons for going was so that I could go to a gig of the above-mentioned group. It is a 5 piece percussion ensemble led by Mr. Lockett who specialises in tablas and other ethnic percussion. The concert was tremendous fun, and it was nice to witness a night of all *acoustic percussion* ie, the REAL DEAL. And I had a great view of Bruford. As a drummer, I am always blown away by his technique, and Saturday evening was no exception. He was chiefly playing the kit. He also played on that wondeful tongue-piano thing from 'The Sheltering Sky'. I also noticed how much fun they all had, particularly Bruford. Perhaps this is why he is concentrating on projects such as this in preference to Crimson. I thought this music (albeit all percussion) was a lot more soulful and easy to enjoy than some of the recent Crimson stuff. You could really feel the groove in your heart. It's as simple as that. As opposed to much of the ProjeKcts material, which I find that I have to really *work at* to be able to listen to it. I mean ... track 11 of 'Masque' uses extensive samples of what sounds to me like rodents being killed, for goodness sake! Anyway, they have a CD out which also features Mr. Bruford, it is called 'One', and is on 'M.E.L.T. 2000' records, Cat no. 50 1001 2. I would heartily recommend it to fans of real, honest, unadulterated drumming. I haven't seen it in the shops anywhere (I bought mine at the gig), but it should be available to order. II Crimson feature in December's MOJO. Self-explanatory really. The new MOJO magazine, which has Pink Floyd on the cover, has an 8-page article all about King Crimson, which I haven't actually had time to read all the way through yet, but what I have read so far seems quite positive. III Followups from the last ET. > You see, during the P1 gigs, from the stage, Tony Levin was taking pictures > of *us*, the audience, without *our* permission! I'm not sure whether the author of this post was joking when he talked about Tony's P1 picture-taking. But I do think that it's totally different to an audience member taking a flash photo during the performance. Whilst mid-gig, the performers are concentrating, listening to each other, and in a certain emotional state. Flash photography often intrudes on this. Perhaps for some (such as Fripp) this action is as off-putting as something else like a shouted obscenity during quiet passages. I wish we could somehow draw a veil over the whole photography issue (right after *this* post :). Fripp doesn't like it, so don't do it. There's no two ways about it. Anyone who doesn't understand or respect this shouldn't be at a Crimson gig. > To all the folks with the ProjeKct box: Play Masque no.8 and cut to 2:20 on > the track. Does anyone else hear The Sheltering Sky (part 2)?????? Yes, kind of. Anyway, listening to that track reminded me again that (for me) it's definitely one of the best tracks of the P3 set. On the whole, I do prefer the more ambient, less cacophanous numbers. Until next time, James. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 14:02:24 +0000 From: Chris Warburton Subject: Re: Cardboard Cd Covers (Elephant Talk #623) Well I've finally been stirred out of lurkerdom.. At 15:32 13.11.1999 GMT, Rob Dunkley wrote: >I love the actual Cirkus set but hate the container - if I had known >in advance that it would come enshrined in cardboard I might not have >ordered it in the first place (my listening loss though!). Reductio ad absurdam: The wrapping is more important than the present? >Why anyone would think that issuing a CD in a cardboard cover reminiscent >of a long departed, unlamented, black disk is a step into the future is >beyond me. Maybe because vinyl was better and more imaginatively packaged? As for the "unlamented" black disc, which in case you hadn't noticed is NOT departed - CD has certain advantages in terms of noise floor &c. but it is a SERIOUSLY technically flawed means of recording and delivering music: just do some simple arithmetic on sampling rates and audio frequency range and then consider the opportunities for curtailed transients. Roll on 24/192 or better. Far from abandoning my existing vinyl, I'm constantly wondering how to raise the money for a better turntable, and where practical, buy vinyl in preference to CD. >As far as I'm concerned, CD manufacturers should stick to the plastic >cases we are all now used to because: > >a: they are more durable than the cardboard ones; You mean those jewel cases whose hinges disintegrate if you sneeze at them, and those retaining clips that have often fallen to pieces even before they've left the shop. >b: they fit into all the CD storage units on the market; and Instead of buying those silly overpriced slotted units that also don't cater for the big double/triple &c. cases, buy shelving type units as produced by the likes of IKEA: they work out a lot cheaper too if you have a collection the size of mine! >c: they are cheaper to produce (maybe meaning cheaper CD's - maybe not). Maybe not? Definitely not! CD prices have more to do with profits than production costs - hence the repeated calls by consumer organisations in the UK for investigations int pricing. The original justification for higher pricing was to recoup development & new plant costs: these have long been covered, and CDs are now far cheaper to produce than 12" vinyl ever was (proportionally), but have we gained anything, I think not! >That's it, I've had my whinge. And I mine. ChrisW (Re-lurking) "a cynic is a man who when he smells flowers looks around for a coffin" - Bierce ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 17:53:55 -0700 From: Bill Lantz Subject: The Repurcussions of Angelic Behavior The new Rieflin/Fripp/Gunn CD entitled "The Repurcussions of Angelic Behavior" on First World (FWD 9906) could be called the "lost" ProjeKct in my singular estimation. It is definitely well worth seeking out if you liked the Projekct box. The tracks are title-less (10 of them, with #3 and #10 drawing my current attention the most) and suggested playback mode is random according to instructions on the CD. The whole thing is just great and is a welcome addition in that vein. Cool Stuff. Bill Lantz Arizona ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 20:15:50 -0800 From: "Walter Harley" Subject: RE: Tony's Pics Ron Chrisley observed: > You see, during the P1 gigs, from the stage, Tony Levin was taking pictures > of *us*, the audience, without *our* permission! Since learning what Fripp > is capable of, I have had fantasies of asking the venue manager to stop the > gig, and inform the band that they will not be allowed to continue until > Tony surrenders his film.:-) [...] And the annoyance gets > worse when he walks as close to the line of hypocrisy as he did on that > night, in not challenging Tony's photography, but challenging some member of > the audience's. Many of us who get to meet our heroes end up saying or asking really dumb things and wishing we'd not tried in the first place. In my case, the one time I got near enough to Tony to say hi, I asked him how it was that Robert tolerated him taking pictures of the band, when clearly Robert didn't tolerate it on the part of the audience. His polite response was, essentially, that he'd never though to ask and Robert had never mentioned it. That may only inflame your feeling of hypocrisy. In my case, it causes me to reflect on the nature of Tony's and Robert's relationship: two very different people, both very intentional, but with differing backgrounds and practices, who have worked together so intimately and for so long. And it causes me to reflect on the fact that both are mature people, capable of complexity and inconsistency of action and emotional response. Just like their music. It seems trivially clear that the act of the audient taking a photograph disrupts the music: Robert stops playing. Whether it is the music that is disrupted, causing Robert to stop attempting to play it, or whether it is Robert who is disrupted, causing him to stop playing music, seems a question for Robert and his spiritual or psychological counselor to explore; frankly, I doubt it's possible to come to an answer. It is hard to imagine that the audience's reaction can have any useful impact on this exploration. In a nutshell: why does it make you angry that Robert's actions do not make sense to you? --Walter Harley ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 10:18:13 -0600 From: Craig Shropshire Subject: Re: Elephant Talk #623 Brain Confusion dissipated RE: Ted White`s Brain Confusion (sorry, couldn`t help myself) I have this single on Weird Person`s Guide to KC There it says that the B-side (Nightmares in Red) is "the first record ever that R Fripp is playing on". It`s *mighty* weird,(and interesting), but no way to tell who`s on it. Thanks to Ted for this info from The Fripp (that he`s "not on it", after all). Seems he liked the title, though. :^) Nice to clear up that misconception......... So,.......... what *would* be the first recording from RF? ~Craig PS: I have just obtained a SEALED (vinyl, of course, as there is NO CD) copy of KC -U.S.A. (Live) on Edt EG. 1975 It is the Collector`s Edition (Half-Speed Mastered). I will be entertaining bids on this rarity . Those seriously interested please respond by private email @ above address. I also have a list of other progressive LPs available upon request. Thank you. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 09:14:35 -0800 (PST) From: Timothy Edwards Subject: Fripp liner notes/Robin Trower/John Paul Jones I thought I read (on ET?) that Fripp wrote liner notes to the recently remastered "Bridge of Sighs" by Robin Trower. I picked it up yesterday (never owning or hearing a complete RT recording - thought I should at least own one) and found no Fripp liner notes(?). Anyone know anything about a connection between the two? Did I dream this? If so, I must get more of a life... I also picked up "Zooma" by John Paul Jones. I've been reintroduced to power groups/trios/ quartets, etc. via the ProjeKcts box set (thank you, Robert & co.) and I must say this is a really great album! If you think that the ProjeKcts are wonderful then "Zooma" is the *tonal* partner (to the P Box) for you. Both are exploratory, interesting and driving! I just needed a little break from the P Box (and this coming from someone who appreciates Eric Dolphy!). Plus it's on DGM and Trey Gunn appears on it (Ahhhh, the ET connection!). Dig in. Thanks for the great newsletter. --Timothy Timothy Andrew Edwards Music (ASCAP) immersive at go dot com http://taem.iuma.com "You must beware of artists - they mix with all classes of society and are therefore most dangerous". ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 11:34:35 +1100 From: "Craig Jones" Subject: Looking for Karl Johnston Sorry for this interruption... Karl Johnston, lastly of New South Wales, Australia, are you out there somewhere? Please contact me as I want to talk to you about your Chapman Stick, & KC videos. back to normal transmission... all the best Craig Jones Melbourne, Australia Ketchup Is A Vegetable! good_king_zog at msn dot com dot au ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 20:04:37 EST From: Delhi4551 at aol dot com Subject: Crimso bootleg in Vladivostok I am a seminarian studying for the priesthood and a long-time, avid fan of Crimso. In the summer of 1998, I spent 6 weeks at a Catholic mission in Vladivostok, Russia, which is on the Pacific coast (on the Sea of Japan). The majority of Russian youth are eating western culture with a shovel, and so I stopped into a CD store to see what they like to listen to. I managed to find a copy of "B'Boom", which of course is the "official bootleg." The CD cost almost twice as much as in the US. The clerk showed me the copy (which was locked behind glass) and explained that this was not an original but a bootleg. Of course, I answered back, it says so on the label. He seemed to understand what I said, but he explained further that it was in fact a bootleg. My knowledge of Russian isn't the best, but if I understood the clerk correctly, the CD in the store was a bootleg copy of an "official bootleg" CD that was produced to compete with an actual bootleg recording of a live concert! And it cost twice as much as in the US!! P.S. I'm using someone else's e-mail address right now. My own address is RonWilliamsJr at hotmail dot com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 09:58:24 +0100 From: "domenico" Subject: in the court of the crimson care Dear Eters, i thank you all for your reactions upon my messages. That's all i wanted ; constructive exchange of point of views about what we like the most. But this time, i gave me a right to respond... Firstly, to "Boehme, Gabriel" who said : "Do not be afraid", "Look beyond your expectations" and "You're wrong - KC does look back". Well, i'm not that afraid. It's that when you love someone, i think you care for it, it's as simple as that. I don't know if you don't mind, but anyway, that's the way i live it (and maybe i'm living it in the wrong way). So, if you can take care of me saying that i must not be afraid, you could easily understand that i'm just afraid because i care for the Crim. Also, in fact, i'm looking beyond my expectations ; all i've done is wrote my impressions just to share it with you all. I trust them. As always. Finally, about looking back and looking further...I just hope wherever they look, they look with the eyes wide open. But, in the end, should we take this all so seriously ? Crimson had always been (and still is...i keep my finger crossed) my favorite band not specially because of the music, but for the integrity they showed, for the approach, uncommun in other pop groups. They did it for thirty years. Who am i to criticize them if they will not apply those principles this time ? We're all human after all. And it's their right to take a break. No one did what they did for such a long time. They have the right to rest. They have the right to do what they want. We just have the right to listen and enjoy what they bring to us. I've always said that those newsletter are something completely wrong because of it's possible influences.... Secondly, Gerard dot Coughlan at irishlife dot ie wrote : "I think melody and harmony have had quite a bit to do with King Crimson" Of course. So do rythms. :o))) How happy must we be to see this band has everything for everyone : beautiful melodies for some, great instrumental parts for others, intricate rythm sections, tension, and so on. Just take any prog group and compare it with KC...Genesis, Gentle Giant, Yes, they all had great based melody structures but they were rythmically poor...if you listen to KC aside. And do not let me say what i didn't say this time : i love those bands also, and i have great pleasure to listen to them, but with KC it's special. And it's just because of Bruford. Of course. How he plays with the time, upon, beyond and before...A marvel. Well, it's time to go for me now...But another little remark : it's funny how many of us are the most impressed by P1 in the ProjecKt box. How should we take this fact ? It's just at the opposite of what we all know is occuring right now... See you soon folks, Domenico PS : Any VAN DER GRAAF GENERATOR fans should manifest themselves for remastered editions (and why not, released on DGM after acquiring their copyrights) !!!!! I trust you !!!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 10:51:07 +0100 From: Marco Arienti Subject: live recordings trade hi everybody, I'm Marco, writing from Tuscany, Italy I was wondering if some kind soul wiuld like to help me in getting 1971/72 shows by KC I'm sorry I have no KC material to give you back except for the offficial releases, if you like I also own some Cantebury-related rarities and concerts, M.Davis, Coltrane Don Cherry, Zappa and a lot of other things, but no KC... hope to hear someone soon, thanks in advice ciao Marco ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 11:34:53 +0200 From: "Toni Suominen" Subject: CC Box Hello! I heard that in Japan there is published a three CD box wich contains the three first volumes of Collectors Club releases. Could someone tell what are these three volumes. I think I remember hearing something that one of these CDs contain live-material from the Wetton-period with Muir on it. Is this true? If anyone has it, how much have paid for it? I would get it for about 90$. Is it worth this much? Toni Suominen tono at mbnet dot fi ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 18:09:56 -0800 From: Michael A Jackson Subject: LIVE IN MEXICO CITY I was able (finally) to download LIVE IN MEXICO CITY. What a great concert! I copied it to cassette tape for myself and a friend and I was rocking out to the concert in my car while driving down the road. Although I didn't like every song, the band was in top performance. Michael Jackson/proclaimation at juno dot com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 09:19:22 -0000 From: Ian Carpenter Subject: RE : About the Remastered "In the court of the Crimson King" CD. I recently purchased the 30th Anniversary Limited Edition of ITCOTCK direct from DGM UK via their website (together with the ProjeKCts Boxed set - five days from placing order to receipt of goods, which included a weekend, so no complaints there!) and I can confirm that there was indeed a booklet of photographs and press clippings included in the package. Regards IanC ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 23:15:56 -0500 From: Todd Crane Subject: KC CC For Sale I have a copy of King Crimson - 'The Beat Club Bremen 1972' for sale. This is a DGM Collector's Club release that does not capture my imagination. Track's are: Improv: The Rich Tapestry of Life Exiles Lark's Tongues in Aspic (Part I) $15 (includes S & H in US) I will also entertain trades for other KC material. Todd ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 11:14:33 +0100 From: "Andy Pohl" Subject: A new JazzRockWeb starts Hi there, in Germany starts a new JazzRockWeb - a `Forum for finest Fusion', Prog-Rock and so on. Many (german) Reviews and News your can find here. Please klick on www.jazzrockweb.de and feel free to put your notice in the Guestbook. Andy Pohl, a real "holdsworthian Crimsoid" www.supersache.de www.pastorius.de ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 09:54:55 -0500 From: tj Subject: 21st Century Schizoid Pumpkin While four of our heroes sweat for us in Nashville one amongst us listeners carved a little something for Halloween 1999. She (dc-et3) has created the first known Schizoid Pumpkin and photographed it so we can all enjoy. Please take a moment from your funny life and look. tj dc-et2 http://www.tidalwave.net/~dumela/index~1.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 21:34:47 +0000 From: Andre LaFosse Subject: WARNING: Small, mobile, intelligent (?) self-promotion follows Hello people -- I have some music I'd like you to have a listen to. I already hear the inevitable unison huff of, "What the *^$# does this have to do with ET/KC?!"... so allow me to plead my case: -- Fripp's diary entries periodically return to the subject of how musicians, eventually, must become their own record labels. That's what I'm doing. -- Fripp's diary entries also make ongoing reference to the life-draining properties that unsolicited demos often contain. That's what I'm (hopefully) avoiding. -- Those intrigued by the drum & bass oriented excursions of the recent ProjeKcts may particularly be inclined towards some of the material herein. -- I played three KC tunes ("Red," "Thrak," and "Schizoid Man") at my CalArts Graduation Recital two years ago. Let me suggest a couple of excerpts to increase the on-topic quotient: http://shoko.calarts.edu/~altruist/Sig1.mp3 This is a bit like the middle section of "Fracture," if the harmonic emphasis were shifted from 20th Century impressionism to Baroque, and was remixed by a jungle DJ. http://shoko.calarts.edu/~altruist/Reason1.mp3 The closest thing to a Fripp-like solo that I have. How close? I leave that to you... To those who have made it this far: thanks for your patience and interest. To the others: I look forward to many flames, hate-mails, and criticisms of my musical and personal character (private mail, please!). To Toby: Hopefully I won't give you reason to wonder why you deal with this sort of thing in your spare time. The main URL for the music, by the way... http://www.altruistmusic.com All the best, --Andre LaFosse ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 20:54:45 -0800 (PST) From: Edgar Kausel Subject: Zoom Club 72 I recently received a tape containing the debut performance of 72-74 Crimso, the '72 Zoom Club gig. There are some facts about the Larks' Quintet line-up that the "Beat Club `72" (KCCC#3) release already showed and are confirmed in this gig : this band is a bit more ecclectic than the '73 line-up; Cross plays more violin than mellotron and has a more leading role, having space to even play flute; Fripp is more quiet but plays some complicated lines ; Bruford playing isn't as "tentative" as in the studio recording of "Larks' Tongues in Aspic", playing fundamental lines and sometimes a leading role in the improvs; and Muir playing all those sounds, bringing colors and texture to the music, and also some energy, magic and inspiration to the band. But the most interesting thing is that, just when I was losing hope to hear another structured song from the 72-74 Crimso(I was prepared to listen only improvs from this gig), this awesome piece of music appears, beginning with that powerful violin + guitar line. This extraordinary piece ends with a superb bass solo, that Wetton doubles with his voice! After that, I had to take my jaw from the floor... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 17:56:09 PST From: "Brian Barton" Subject: KC Live at the Zoom Club '72 Hello all. I just got my hands on King Crimson live at the Zoom Club @ Frankfurt (Oct.13 '72 I believe). Of all the Larks' Tongues era bootlegs I've listened to so far this one has the best sound quality and is of enormous historical interest, and IMHO is worthy of a Collectors' Club release. It includes a 45 minute improv (longer than the entire Bremen Beat Club Collectors' Club CD) that is overflowing with creativity and that never gets lost. And there are two other improvs that introduce ideas which would later be incorporated in Lament and Doctor Diamond, among other songs. What also makes this show essential is that it provides a glimpse at early versions of songs not performed at the Beat Club. Easy Money, the most notable of these, starts out with the mellotron filling in for some of Wetton's vocals as the lyrics hadn't been finalized yet. And the middle part which would later become a jazzy interlude instead features extensive violin by Cross. But the real surprise is in the ending, which is identical to that of Fallen Angel. Needless to say, this show should be commercially available to all Crimheads. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 18:48:15 PST From: "B Saylind" Subject: Any Canadians in DGM Collector's Club? Are there any Canadians in the DGM Club? Just curious how DGM ships releases to Canadians from the U.S., what kind of duty/handling charges you incur if something like UPS is used, or if there are any options (e.g. US Post). ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 08:13:25 -0800 From: tom murphy Subject: Fritz Lang's Metropolis & KC [Badly formed multipart message, contents not processed] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 19:12:57 -0800 From: Paulo Henrique Leocadio Subject: King Crimson Live Video - with J. Muir! Greetings, I think most of you heard of the marvelous LD collection released in some parts pf the world and heavily traded all around named Beat Club Bremen, under different titles such as Musk Laden, Jazz Rock, British Blues and many others. That collection presented excellent performances, the majority of them very rare, by groups such as Jethro Tull, the very first version of Renaisance, just to count a few. All the performances were recorded for the German TV in Bremen, for the Beat Club TV show, during the very late 60's and early 70's. A must have for all music lovers. I always wondered why there are titles covering the majority of rock movements of the period but none for Progressive! I was sure: wrong conclusion. I found a couple of years ago a Progrssive Rock specialized shop in another town in my country listing a video entitled "Best of Beat Club: Progressive Rock". BINGO! Worse: under the title there was a brief explanation of each of the titles they had. For this one: "..., ELP, King Crimson and others live for German TV ..." KING CRIMSON LIVE!?!?!?!?!?! Now, after a week or so of my order, I had it for the 1st time: Larks' Tongues in Aspic (part 1) all alive and with Jamie Muir. The rest is ok, ELP, Soft, even the Nice all alive. Dudes, I went crazy. Cheers! Paulo H. Leocadio Sao Paulo, SP, Brazil ------------------------------ Date: 30 Nov 99 13:09:15 -0800 From: "David Voci" Subject: FWD:Doctor Diamond Projekct ET and Beyond, Can we ever get another glimpse at KC doing the brilliant tune Doctor Diamond? This is a fantastic tune, replete with emotion and overall, a lost gem in my opinion...I thought I saw somewhere that there was a studio version of this??? Any other live shows that this can be found on? I posted awhile back with thoughts Projekct Box and wanted to add a little note and that is basically that discs 1 and 4 are probably the most noteworthy. I truly believe that the quote from Bill Bruford underneath the tray to Disc 1 sums it all up quite nicely: "An unfortunate side-effect of most arrangements is to ensure that accidents don't happen. The beauty of collective improvisation is that accidents will happen." Next and last point is re: Wetton and that is to say that as many of you probably already have posted, this fine gentleman was the bassist/vocalist on Wishbone Ash's 1981 release entitled 'Number The Brave'. Have good holidays, dv ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 10:58:56 -0500 From: Martin Bradburn Subject: GIG REVIEW: 11/16 Newport RI What a pleasure it was to see the Europa String Choir with Tony Geballe last week here in Newport . The show was at the Newport Congregational Church, a lovely venue with such good acoustics that I don't think any artificial reveb was used or neccesary. The crowd although small was very attentive, supportive and had a great time. Tony Geballe opened and as always presents his 12 string magic with a warmth and humanity that transcends the technical ability he displays and gives his music and performance such a heartfelt sensibility. He played for 15- 20 minutes then ESC played for 1/2 an hour then after an intimation they repeated finishing with Tony joining them for their last piece. "Native of the Rain" and "Flock" from his first CD "Native of the Rain" were uplifting and the 2 pieces based on Turkish themes he developed during his stay there were challenging to the ear and the mind. Of all the GC related groups that I have seen perform are unique and the ESC is no exception. They have a very dynamic, wide sound that is just the right blend of solo virtuosity and ensemble cohesion. Their interplay is synchronous and precise and at the same time flowing and dreamy. And they smile a lot!, together and separately, the audience and the music benefit for this warmth and humanity. The new material since Markus Reuter joined is very powerful and adds a dimension to the earlier material while indicaticating the huge capabilities of this group. The original trio as represented on their first recording "The Starving Moon", are Cathy Stevens on Violectra a six string electric viola/violin, Udo Dzierzanowski on a Godin guitar with built in Synth interface to a GR-30, and Alessandro Bruno on a Parker Fly with a GK-2A. They are now joined by Markus Reuter on Warr Guitar. All of the ESC play through Boss GT-5's and the sound palette they access is truly marvelous. Here were some of the highlights for me: "Hot Metal" and "City of Rome" from the Real Deal Promo and soon to be released "Lemon Crash" CD.Both of these pieces just (pardon the terminology) kick ass!!! They have great structure and dynamics, C of R captures such a moment, place, feeling, just great. Likewise "St Francis Waltz", "Easy St. Poets" and "Woodentops II" were much more lush live, a hot date for sure!. Udo's lead on "City of Rome" and everybody else's support and interplay creates marvelous tension and release. "Hot Metal", has a very Beatlesque start that developed into such a foreign land with Cathy' staccato bowing and the crunchy guitars. .They did a great improv with Udo playing drums via the GR-30 and a personal favorite a lovely, albeit shortened, "Tubular Bells" their only cover of the night. Markus Reuter's playing was entrancing with really intriguing interplay, he works the Warr with a sensuous and yet forceful feel. The last piece with Tony joining them was especially strong Cathy Stevens on "Violelectra", well I could gush about her technique, feel, sound and interplay, but lets leave it at this. I was entranced by her right hand at one point and immediately thought of Bill Bruford at recent Earthworks show. Just his fluidity on a switch from slamming toms to lightly tapping a ride cymbal, fluid, forceful delicate yet so strong, she has that sense to her playing. Udo Dzierzanowski with his infectious smile may lull you into a sense on calm, but beware this man can shred and although I felt hints of RF in his phrasing he brings a unique voice to the mix. Alessandro Bruno was very reserved but as with Udo stepped out to rock when appropriate or just interwove beautiful textures in this truly group effort. His slide work was very nice. A great show, lets hope that they come back to the states soon. If you haven't heard them search them out on recording or better yet live I don't think you'll be disappointed. -- Martin Bradburn ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #624 ********************************