Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #623 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 623 Tuesday, 16 November 1999 Today's Topics: CDs for trade Projekcts box; audiences, Fripp and cameras 2 cents worth on P1234 the projekcts box review ! ACOUSTIC DRUMS RE: Last Yes Bruford Richard Palmer-James & David Cross Warr Guitar Music new person league of gentlemen Your own alternate "Deception of the Thrush" About the Remastered "In the court of the Crimson King" CD. Review Of P Box Set I threw some Crimfants into the deep end! End of ProjeKCt 2 disk; thanks Travis Re: Monday Nov 8 - Middle East (Down) - Boston Loopers Collective III King Crimson on the Collecting Channel the devil's triangle on video Brain Confusion guitar tabs projects - new KC RE: Frightening Future King 3 of a perfect pair tab Crimson King Bootleg on RealAudio Fripp KC In Mexico Download page Sucks!!! Cardboard CD Covers Saturday Night Live Further KC "sightings" on USA TV The real hidden track in the P-Box. Crimson related news An exclusive interview with David Cross ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.5b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 15:02:22 -0600 From: Alexander Domrin Subject: CDs for trade Hello everybody: I have a couple of extra CDs that may be of interest to some of you: Ian McDonald * Drivers Eyes 1999 (with Hackett and Wetton); Peter Banks * Two Sides of Peter Banks 1973 (with Hackett, Collins, Jan Akkerman, etc.) Peter Hammill * Skin 1986; Brian Gingrich / David Torn * The White Rim of Heaven 1996. I am interested in trading those CDs for Crimson or other prog rock CDs. Send me a private message. Best, Alex ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 00:30:42 -0000 From: "Ron Chrisley" Subject: Projekcts box; audiences, Fripp and cameras Finally managed to get the Projekcts box without paying the absurd #40 that DGM is asking over here. Lovely stuff. I saw all four nights of P1 and for the past 2 years I have been a P1 snob, based on my love of Bruford's playing and my relative dislike of P2, both live and studio. But P3 and P4 are excellent! I really love this stuff. Thank God the songs are gone. (I suspect that there is a date error in Robert's diary for the P3 disc -- shouldn't the second entry entitled "Tuesday 23rd March 1999" actually be for the morning of the 24th?) On to the hidden tracks: > Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 18:55:00 -0500 > From: Travis Flower > Subject: ProjecKt Audiences (Who am us, anyway?) > > Ever look around at a big family gathering, say for example at a big > holiday dinner, and smile to yourself with embarrassment but begrudging > affection at these wierdos seated around the table? Ya gotta love 'em, > because they are, after all, your family. > I feel much the same way listening to the "hidden" bonus track after > Schizoid Man on the P2 CD. The audience is venomous- there is the > distinct possibility that the foolish soul with the camera might not > make it out of the theatre without getting gang-probed. I burst into > continuous fits of silly laughter listening to the righteous > indignation. Just imagine such intellectual discussions about the > inviolable rights of the Artist at a Guns 'n' Roses show.... > I think that in the final analysis, that track represents a very > special sort of victory for both Fripp and his frustrated fans. Fripp's > philosophy of the participant audience is vindicated by that recording: > the audience has indeed become, in a John Cage sort of way, a real part > of the "composition" of the final track of Live Groove. The audience > for their part, gains the benefit of being included as part of a bona > fide King Crimson improvisation. I wish to god that it was me calling > that guy a "flaming indigent cocksucker" on the CD. Beats the hell out > of my ticket stubs for a souvenir. Travis, are you so sure that the audience is angry at the photographer? I had assumed that they were hurling abuse at Fripp! On retrospect, you are probably right, and I'm only projekcting what happened at the beginning of the last set of the last night of P1's stint at the Jazz Cafe onto the P2 hidden track. In the case of P1, the audience may have been humorously annoyed by the photographer, but they were really pissed off at Fripp for walking away from the mic, mid-sentence, in an ill mood. Right after Bill started his quiet intro, you could quite clearly hear someone say "wanker!" -- and it was clearly directed at Fripp. It is no surprise that this portion of the piece has been edited out of the Projekcts Box release! What is strange is that Fripp makes a point of saying that somewhere between the two sets P1 entered the "zone". Does this mean that the affair with the flash and rude termination of announcement did not take him out of the zone? Or could it be (as it seemed at the time) that his strong negative emotions charged his playing in a way that was atypically non-Frippian -- without rational control or design -- thus yielding a blistering performance that galvanized the others into a wonderful joint performance? In any case, since Fripp won't let the matter of flash cameras at KC gigs die, I'll point out something that has annoyed me ever since that night. You see, during the P1 gigs, from the stage, Tony Levin was taking pictures of *us*, the audience, without *our* permission! Since learning what Fripp is capable of, I have had fantasies of asking the venue manager to stop the gig, and inform the band that they will not be allowed to continue until Tony surrenders his film.:-) Not that I have anything against Tony's picture taking -- not at all! (hi Tony!). Nor am I trying to defend the right of people to take flash photos of KC. It's just that I get annoyed with Fripp when he claims to have the sole, clear view on what is and what is not acceptable behaviour in a musical/artist context. And the annoyance gets worse when he walks as close to the line of hypocrisy as he did on that night, in not challenging Tony's photography, but challenging some member of the audience's. In Fripp's defence, I suppose he could claim that he asked us not to take photos, while no one asked Tony not to. Surely if an audience member asked Tony not to take their picture, he would comply?! I see this angle, but am not entirely persuaded: who would have thought that the performers would be taking photos of the crowd, in order to ask in advance not to snap? By the time one sees Tony snapping, it's too late, for surely no one would want to marr the perfromance (as Fripp did) with a request to stop taking photos? Or should the audience member walk out if they don't like it? I suppose that might be the response most analogous to Fripp's, assuming that they get their money back (unlikely, without Fripp's help). Of course, besides the hypocrisy issue, there are the other considerations of generosity and balance: even if the audience photographer was 100% in the wrong, what is the right thing for Fripp to do: broadcast that negative energy to 200 people by beiung rude to all of them, or just let it pass? Or find a constructive third way: tell the person to surrender the film, thus making the point Fripp so desperately wanted to make, and then continue with the announcement? Before, I was willing to let this incident pass without comment, but now that Fripp/KC/P2 have gone so far as to enshrine such chastisement on one of their CDs, I felt I had to speak up. To anyone at the P4 gigs: Did Tony take photos there as well? Ron Chrisley PS: no, I wasn't the one who took the photo! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 23:53:12 EST From: Hocow at aol dot com Subject: 2 cents worth on P1234 Howdy, Just thought I'd throw in my impressions which are in many ways duplications of other recent posts. First off, such a huge quantity of abstract music is impossible to really digest in the short time the box set has been in my hands (at least for those of us with jobs). So I'll reserve the right to totally reverse myself in a month or two. 1 Just because your v-drums can make fart noises does not mean it will ever be a good idea to do it. I am trying to keep an open mind but I am finding that the rythm section continually going booshshsh instead of boom gets fatigueing before most of the pieces are over. Given the abbreviated length of the P3 cuts this is a very scary proposition. Perhaps I am alone in this opinion. I'm far from being a purist but I beleive that 90% of the material would be drastically improved if the v-drums were set to sound like, well, drums. 2 For all the criticism I've seen in here, I find a lot of P2 to be very enjoyable. Admittedly this may be due to lowered expectations. 3 P3 has a lot of interesting textures but I have to agree with a poster from a few issues back that no melodic ideas seem to fully develope. There's some nice building blocks but they never seem to get assembled. 4P4 has its moments but for the most part is kind of annoying. I find myself unable to sit through it most times that I have put it on. Conversely I really enjoyed Roar of P4. I especially liked Seizure and would like to see some form of it appear on the next Crimson. Generally I feel on a lot of P4 Tony is at a loss for what to do. Because of this I am sorry to say that at this early stage for my ears the best ProjeCKt is P1. 5 Is it Bruford or just the fact that it is acoustic drums? The music breathes. Bruford can throw so many different approaches to the same groove. When the band starts to just vamp Bruford changes the rythm or throws in one of those rim shots on an odd beat that makes you go "What the hell was that?" Tony is so much more at home in this lineup. New foundations for Fripp and Gunn to solo over just flow freely. There is something totally new and yet a feel that stretches back to 70's improvs. It's almost as if after Red, Wetton quit and was replaced by Levin. These improvs could have been the descendants of Providence and Asbury Park. P1 is the only CD in the box where if I walked into a music store and heard it playing I would run up to a clerk and ask if that was a new Crimson cd playing in the background. The thing that is most intrigueing about this is the fact that according to Fripp's diary all P1 music was intentionally spontaneous with no preplanning at all. Not even a key or a 1 2 3 go. P23and4 on the other hand played compositions evolved from improvs. And yet P1 sounds so much fresher and together. I don't doubt the ability of the current lineup to come up with something that is worthy of the Crimson name. The progress reports in Fripp's diary are definately exciting. I just think P1 may be the last time we hear Crimson as we have known it. Contrary to what I have said here, I fully expect what they go on to to be a drastic change and equally as good as what preceded it. But, please, Pat, don't lose track of the effectiveness of conventional drums instead of boings and fizzes. Guess I got a little long winded there. Time for me to go lay down. Brad Wilmot ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 10:45:21 -0200 From: "carlos h moller" Subject: the projekcts box review ! hi you people living the KC xperience ! well, after receiving my box and listening to it a couple of times, now i have my comments: Projekct 1: - sounds great right on the first track, but in the middle of the CD it seems to loose something and ends suddenly. if only they continued the first track for the rest of the album..... - bruford is a hell of a drummer ! Projekct 2: - far better and beyond than Space Groove. - i think that just a few people understood the way adrian play drums. he play drums just like he plays guitar ! his guitar playing is often non-structured as his drumming. i had that "not a real drummer" kind of thinking, but after listening carefully to it, i thought i found the explanation. i have an idea: maybe he should program his guitar with all the V-Drums sounds and try to rock with it ! it would be great !! - loved the "21st Century" dance-like version.... Projekct 3: - what was that ? - it sounds to me that Pat left out the best parts, because it sounded a little frustrating to me, since fripp loved it ! - Pat has a real sense of producing. though i didn't like it that much, the sound is great. Projekct 4: - now we're talking business !! - Tony makes a huge difference after all ! - Pat is mixing acosutic & electronic in this one. that's the way i like it, but a whole electronic KC is inevitable i guess ( which i'm hoping for ! ) ok, that's all. i understand ( and hope ) that these CDs are only a step to the next krimson. after four hours of improvisation ( and guitar lines so repetitive ! ), i'm really hoping a song-structured and musical-structured album or something. are you with me ? carlos h moller brazil ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 13:04:55 -0000 From: "John Stevens" Subject: ACOUSTIC DRUMS Further to Ronald Vogel's comments re Acoustic v Electro drums: I concur that Billy B's playing on Jazz Cafe is far more interesting and dynamically diverse than the percussion playing on the other 3 CDs in the boxset. To these ears acoustic drums are far more interesting than the bleeps & gleeps of electronic drums. Just listen to 80's music to hear how dated drum machines etc now sound. I loved them at the time but now far prefer the clarity and timbre of the acoustic kit, John Stevens ------------------------------ Date: 7 Nov 99 14:06:18 EST From: James Dusewicz Subject: RE: Last Yes Bruford Since Brufords appearences on lp/cd have been covered post-Yes. I thought I'd post his last Yes appearance. Bruford appears on two cuts on YESSONGS(2CD)(1973), actually released as a three record lavishly packaged set on May 4, 1973. I picked it up in September of that year. He appears on "Perpetual Change" and "Long Distance Runaround/The Fish". By the way--the new offering by Yes--THE LADDER, is perhaps the best music they have put out since the KEYS TO ASCENSION volumes, and ABWH. So if you are a Yes fan and don't own it yet, go get it, It's good!! That only goes to show that Yes can make great records with Steve Howe and without Rick Wakeman. jim campaigner at usa dot net James Dusewicz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 01:21:02 MSK From: "George Khouroshvili" Subject: Richard Palmer-James & David Cross Hello ETers, Just a short note to let you all know that Richard Palmer-James will provide lyrics for the next David Cross solo album. All the best, George Khouroshvili If you want to receive the news about David Cross activities, subscribe "Calamity", the David Cross newletter. Email addresses: Subscribe: calamity_news-subscribe at onelist dot com Unsubscribe: calamity_news-unsubscribe at onelist dot com List owner: calamity_news-owner at onelist dot com Shortcut URL to this page: http://www.onelist.com/community/calamity_news ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 22:32:49 -0000 From: "Anthony Brearton" Subject: Warr Guitar Music Since being being overwhelmed by Trey Gunn on the Warr Guitar I made an effort to find more of the sounds available on this remarkable instrument. My efforts paid off and I found that a guy by the name of Jim Wright was making music on the instrument. I bough his CD and have not taken it from my deck ever since! I recomend that all music lovers get in touch with Jim at mrjwright at earthlink dot net and buy his music. The wider the audience this music reaches the better! He really plays this instrument and with feeling. This is the REAL THING. This high quality cd is far cheaper than we pay in Britain, and is of a very high quality indeed. I cannot be alone in appreciating this music and I urge all out there to buy and enjoy! Give it a try, You' ll not regret it. RF, if you read this I urge you to listen to this music. Go on, you've nothing to loose and many DGM fands could benefit! Best Wishes, Tony Brearton ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 22:57:29 -0800 From: "slightcap" Subject: new person I have always been a King Crimson fan and i have always wondered why so called classic rock radio stations never play even the very early stuff.I must also tell you that my idea of classic rock is not the norn.....like you matt ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 23:09:12 -0800 From: "slightcap" Subject: league of gentlemen i also want to say that my stupid town of rockford illinois was fortunate enough to have the league and a frippertronics show in our town.its even listed on the album covers.ifound a photo itook before the frippertronics show /he did not like the fact the picture was taken thats why its a classic he was pissed off about the photo even though he said it was ok ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 08:17:16 +0100 From: tpoisson at atelier dot fr (BQUEDIRECTE Poisson) Subject: Your own alternate "Deception of the Thrush" Hello everyone, How about a little survey about the new projeKct box ? Send me your 10 favorite tracks from the P-boxed-set, and I will publish the compiled results in a month or so. [ Please DO NOT send your favourites to ET -- send only to Thomas. Thanks, Toby ] Just send an e-mail to tpoisson at atelier dot fr, with the subject : "ProjeKct", and the 10 tracks you prefer. Thomas PS: by the way, I am very happy with "Deception of the Thrush" ; I am just curious to see what people prefer within the projeKcts. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 08:22:40 +0100 From: leif dot myhrer at seb dot se Subject: About the Remastered "In the court of the Crimson King" CD. At the "News from the World Central" you can read: "30th Anniversary Limited Edition. Remastered in 24 bit by Simon Heyworth, Robert Fripp & David Singleton, in mini gatefold facsimile of the original vinyl album cover, and with a booklet containing historic photographs and press clippings. " When I bought my copy there wasn't any booklet included. Has anyone experienced the same problem? Has anyone received a booklet? Regards Leif Myhrer leif dot myhrer at seb dot se ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 13:32:00 +0000 From: Gerard dot Coughlan at irishlife dot ie Subject: Review Of P Box Set A Chairde, I wasn't going to post an opinion regarding this release but given the increasing coverage I thought I'd stick my neck out.... I was very excited when I got this...it was a little overwhelming at first - more than four hours of new KC related music in one go is one mother of an overdose. My girlfriend was less than enthusiastic. I had seen Projekct One and Two but knew nothing about what P3 and P4 were going to sound like. Projekct One: I like this a lot. The sound quality is excellent and Bill and Tony are exceptional. I was at the last two P1 performances so I was thrilled to see that those nights are well represented here. The solid groove that is provided by the rhythm section here is integral to the whole CD and I think it's the best setting Fripp and Gunn (and Belew of course) can have for their improvisation. Projekct Two: I saw them also when they played in London and I have to say I was disappointed compared with what I had seen a few months earlier. I was thrilled to see Adrian Belew in such a small setting but overall I was disappointed with the music being played. I got a hard time from this digest at the time when I slagged them off. The music was a little too chaotic and direction-less. It seemed that each of them were in their on little world, not really listening to what the other was playing. There was very few ideas when compared with P1. I thought Space Groove was pretty good for an effort recorded in three days. There seemed to be a more relaxed approach to the playing which I liked. Fripps playing on this is really good and inventive and not necessarily the very fast 10 notes a second type stuff. Live Groove I suspect is probably better than it should have been given that this line-up played a lot more gigs than any of the other Projekcts. The amount of material is thin on the ground with three different versions of the same piece (Construkction - heavy, light, contrary) and a "cover version" of sorts (21csm) although Sustaynz, Deception of the Trush and the title track are quite good. You also get the infamous photo incident crowd reaction and band announcement. I think "flaming indignant coKcsuKcer" would be a great title for a song on the new album !!! Projekct Three: This is one I am trouble getting my ears around. It's also the one most people seem to be raving about. From a pure technical point of view it's very good. Pat's remixing, re-jigging, editing and so on is very accomplished but after hearing it I'm finding it very hard to remember and recognise some of the pieces. I think this one needs more time. Listening to it reminds me of when I first heard Bitches Brew...it's very dense music, not a continuous improvisational performance but a aural collage of different performances of different pieces all spliced together. In this way it's very different to the other three discs. It sounds more like studio work than live work. Projekct Four: I like this one a lot. Possibly because it has what P2 and P3 don't, a bass player. I don't think the music works without a proper played, as opposed to programmed, bass part. This CD sounds really good with lots of heavily distorted bass lines which really works in Ghost Part 1, Hindu Fuzz and Construkction (again!). I didn't think the P4 version of ..Thrush was a good as the version on P2, but it's still good. Other Comments.... Domenico wrote in #621 that when reviewing the Box Set that King Crimson is "....just about rhythms....". Fair enough comment given the stature of some of the rhythm sections down through the years, but then Scott Steele replied quoting "I think melody and harmony have had quite a bit to do with it...". King Crimson definitely have produced some great melodies. I suppose music should have rhythm, melody and harmony but in the case of the Projekcts it can be a long hard search to find more than one of these at any one time. When I saw Projekct 2 in London in April 1998 there was a moment between numbers when Belew was messing about with some sounds on the drums and someone said something which he heard and replied "that's the only melody you'll hear tonight". Good sense of humour from the man but he was right, it was the only melody we heard. Thanks for your time... Regards Gerard ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 11:16:13 -0500 From: "Gordon Emory Anderson" Subject: I threw some Crimfants into the deep end! A funny story..... On Friday I went with some of my colleagues to a nearby "Friendly's" here in NJ. Now for these guys, Friendly's is kind of exotic: one guy is from Burma, one guy from Armenia, one guy (Tony) from Jamaica, and one guy (Ram--kind of a ringer in this story) from India (the Indian guy is into Jazz and has gone to BLUE with me). On the way over I played some nice quasi folky/funky Lori Carson. On the way back I told Ram I had some Najma and some Crimson loaded. He told me to play some Crimson, so I started 'Indiscipline' from Live on Broadway. As Bruford's drum solo gets going, the Aremenian, the Jamaican and the Burman (I've seen a David Cassidy CD on his desk!) are cracking jokes: "Well, you can't exactly dance to this, can you Emory?". Not familiar with 'Indiscipline', Ram's gettin' nervous: "I don't think they're ready for this, Emory." Anyway, Adrian says "I did!" and the band kicks in. My passengers grew quickly silent. "You listen to this?" Tony eventually says. "Listen to it, I was THERE!" I reply. Adrian continues:" I wish you were here to see it!" And the unholy terror conitnues. We get out of the car and all of them are silent as we walk back, some looking at the ground. "Look, Ram. They're silent!" I say, but they don't seem to notice. It was truly a hilarious moment. -Emory ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 10:02:29 -0800 From: "Scott Steele" Subject: End of ProjeKCt 2 disk; thanks Travis >The audience is venomous- there is the distinct possibility that the >foolish soul with the camera might not make it out of the theatre without >getting gang-probed. He didn't make it out before being Ton Prob'd. >I wish to god that it was me calling that guy a "flaming indigent >cocksucker" on the CD. Beats the hell out of my ticket stubs for a >souvenir. ROFL! Are there any tapes extant of the concert in Italy where the promoter (or someone?) pulled the plug on the 1974-model Crimson? In one of his box-set diaries Fripp describes a moment where they thought they were going to start a song and all you could hear was Bruford's opening snare shot. >We are in a position to debate Fripp's motives and behavior, however >distant they may seem, precisely because he has let us get to know him, in >some ways, on a rather personal level in a way that few musicians do. I appreciate it Bob. I think our e-contact is better than any tongue-tied face-to-face fan-slobbering I could muster up. (And thanks for a cool post, Travis.) - S. scottst at ohsu dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 14:07:56 -0500 From: Dave Lane Subject: Re: Monday Nov 8 - Middle East (Down) - Boston Loopers Collective III David Kirkdorffer wrote: >DATE: Monday November 8 (8-11pm) >LOCATION: At the Middle East Downstairs (Central Square, Cambridge) >FEATURE: The Boston Loopers Collective III, with: >* Electric Percussion: T.G. Noyes, Michael Bloom and Frank Coleman >* Bass: Micorvard >* Keyboards: Jere Fason >* Unguitar: David Kirkdorffer > Visuals from Dr. T For some reason I feel the need to point out the King Crimson connection: Bloom is the Boston rock critic who was dubbed "Clueless and Slightly Slack" in the Great Deceiver booklet. --Dave ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 14:11:34 -0500 From: Ted White Subject: King Crimson on the Collecting Channel If I may, I'd like to put in a plug for a five-part series which I am running on the Collecting Channel (www.collectingchanel.com) on King Crimson. I am the manager of the Music microchannel on the Collecting Channel, and you can find that by clicking on "music" in the list of categories on the left side of our home page. In the past I have run feature articles on Genesis, After Crying, Stackridge and other groups of interest to Crimheads and progfans. The emphasis is discographical and for collectors. Now, starting on November 10th and running through November 16th, King Crimson is featured in a daily series of five articles which follows the group chronologically from its origins (as the *first* League of Gentlemen, Brain, and Giles, Giles & Fripp) up to the present. Check it out. --TW (Dr.P) dc-et #6 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 17:24:44 EST From: BEWLAYBR0S at aol dot com Subject: the devil's triangle on video hello king crimson people... i have the 1978 documentary "the devil's triangle" for sale on video for $15. most of you have probably heard of it, as i've seen it mentioned in et before. but for those who haven't, it's a one-hour documentary about the bermuda triangle, narrated by vincent price, and with a soundtrack consisting entirely of the kc track "the devil's triangle." it's also in the original box, which is pretty worn but overall in good shape. incidentally, the box says the movie features music by "king cromson," which only adds to its charm. :) the picture and sound are amazingly good for a video this old, too. i would imagine this is pretty hard to find in the original box and all. email me at BEWLAYBR0S at aol dot com if anybody's interested...first come, first serve. i will pay shipping. -jason cook ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 23:30:02 -0500 From: Ted White Subject: Brain Confusion At the same time I sent a note to ET about my upcoming discographical piece on King Crimson on the Collecting Channel (November 10th through the 16th), I posted a mention in the DGM Guestbook. Shortly after that mention appeared, I received a query about one of the groups I'd passingly mentioned in the Crim's pre-history, Brain. The query was from Robert, who wondered what I was talking about. I responded by quoting him the entry for that group in Vernon Joynson's THE TAPESTRY OF DELIGHTS, an encyclopedic book on British psychedelic and progressive rock, which identified Brain as the precursor to Giles, Giles & Fripp, with all three of those members, and the progenitors of one 45 single on Parlophone. He informed me that the entry was in error. I had just time to rewrite the relevant paragraph of my piece for the Collecting Channel, and in the interests of sharing Vital Facts, I shall quote it here: ::Fripp then met the Giles brothers. Michael was a drummer and Peter played bass. In August 1967 they reputedly formed a band called Brain, which released one single, "Nightmares in Red" b/w "Kick The Donkey" on Parlophone (R 5595) that year. "Nightmares in Red" has been described as "three minutes of sheer lunacy, nonsensical lyrics, discordant orchestration, snoring, total mayhem." This obscure single is of course now extremely rare and collectible, due to its historical importance to fans of King Crimson. However, when queried about this single, Robert Fripp told me, "The Giles Brothers were in Trendsetters Ltd. before Giles, Giles & Fripp. The single you're referring to belonged to the end period of Trendsetters and before I worked with them. So, I'm not sure if the single really is Trendsetters, or Brain for a group name during transition. But it's certainly not GG&F and I'm not on it." This information will confound collectors, who thought otherwise.:: Let it be so noted. --TW (Dr.P) dc-et #6 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 11:08:20 -0500 From: " Jensen" Subject: guitar tabs Hi everyone. Just a quick question. Are there any guitar tabs available for CGT, Crimson, or Fripp songs which use the new standard tuning? Thanks, Erik Jensen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 19:15:03 EST From: Tonyg1228 at aol dot com Subject: projects - new KC hello, I've been lurking for quite some time, but haven't felt the desire to input until now. My thoughts on the project box: P1: Three (3) seasoned musicians showing chops, having fun,improvising as we all know they can. Great stuff, but few new directions. (note: sorry, but I cannot put Trey in this category. I like both his albums, but he is out of his league here. I couldn't find his contributions to thrak, etc. and these discs expose him for Fripp lite, which does nothing for the music. Also, I feel he may be intimidated by Levin's presence, staying in the background on P1 & P4.) P2: Here is where the research starts. I like this much better than space groove. Some good exploration of sounds, but limited in style. P3: More exploration in sound and content, better with Pat, who HAS shone outside the DT, who can use the drums to more interesting results (not to take away from Adrian, who did some great work). All of this leading to ..... P4: This is it!!! This is the future of KC! Having heard this, I would hate to see them going back to the past styles, doing Belew songs and such. I am sure that the musicians would be bored with that also. Let's have a clean break! Just my 2 cents. Thanks, Tony G p.s. all you mellotron freaks, ckeck out Edgar Froese's "Epsilon in Malaysian Pale", beautiful stuff. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 13:30:52 -0600 From: "Boehme, Gabriel" Subject: RE: Frightening Future King "domenico" states: >I decided not to see the Robert Fripp and Trey Gunn diaries anymore. >My passion, wich became a need, an organic response, for this band is so >big, i may overreact. >The fact is, all i saw is : >- "hey, i've never played that kind of stuff for 25 years now" >- "we are calling it Lark's IV" >- "Trey has a new cd coming out" >- "there is new guitar interplay between Ade and myself" > >Guys, what's going on ? >Are you going into memorabilia ? >I am afraid. KC always go further. But doesn't look back. 1) You are wrong -- KC does look back. You *have* to look back in order to move forward -- at the very least, in order to avoid what has already been done. To specifically address your concerns, my reading of the diaries is that these old titles ("Larks'", the "F" piece, "Discipline", etc.) are merely points of reference, or notes of similarity, between music past and music present. The old pieces are not the determining factors; rather, the new music emerges, and afterwards its similarities with music past are noted. Mr. Fripp himself mentioned that he hesitated to refer to old titles, but he has no other way of communicating to the diary the "type" of music being worked upon. Also, don't forget that something "new" can be created by unusual or previously unattempted combinations of several "old" things. Pat Mastelotto's drumming alone should guarantee the "new"-ness of the upcoming Crimson music. 2) Do not be afraid. Being "afraid" of consistency is just as bad as being "afraid" of change. John Cage was quoted as saying, "I can't understand why people are frightened by new ideas. I'm frightened of old ones." While some might applaud this attitude, I find it just as limited and reflexive as retroism. You artificially limit yourself either way. If you require that KC only use old ideas (as KC '69 and KC '73 revivalists might like), you automatically reject anything new that might come along. If you require that KC only use *new* ideas (as some ProjeKctophiles seem to want), you automatically reject anything that has ties to Crimson's past. Both approaches get in the way of musical influence -- you reject ideas, not on the basis of the music, but based on their real or superficial resemblance to something old. 3) Look beyond your expectations. You have perhaps picked up on "frightening" signs of retroism in Mr. Fripp's diary because that is what you have been looking for. So, chin up, steel yourself, and plunge back into the diaries. Face your fears, and look closely to see if the monster in the closet isn't just your own reflection in the mirror. Hep yadda, Gabriel Boehme ---------- Men do not differ much about what things they will call evils; they differ enormously about what evils they will call excusable. G.K. Chesterton ---------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 14:12:51 PST From: "don hosek" Subject: 3 of a perfect pair tab Just to let people know... my intent is to put this up on my website & send an announcement to ET. The presentation will be a bit more sophisticated than most tab pages. -dh --- "You're not a cyberwarrior and you're not surfing the web. You're a loner and you're typing." -Bill Maher ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 04:17:40 -0500 From: tonyola Subject: Crimson King Bootleg on RealAudio I was listening to the Orange Sunshine RealAudio channel tonight (an excellent channel of late 60s and early 70s progressive/FM rock, by the way), and heard what sounded like an alternate take of the studio version of "The Court of the Crimson King". The structure of this version of the song was essentially the same as the released version, but the recording had some important differences: 1) The mellotrons were much lower in the overall mix. 2) Fripp plays simple fuzz-tone electric guitar solos during the choruses, and these solos are fairly high in the mix. 3) The flute solo was entirely different from the released version, along with the guitar complementing the flute. 4) Greg Lake's vocal phrasing was slightly different, and less reverb was used on the vocals. 5) The "ahhhhhhh" vocal parts in the choruses were different in that the singers clearly slide up to the D chord at the beginning of each phrase of the chorus, rather than attacking the chord at the proper pitch. 6) The transition to the sustained E chord after the final chorus was markedly sloppy, with a very ragged attack on the E chord. 7) The extended coda (beginning with cymbal hits, then calliope) was missing from this version. 8) The overall sound of the song was "drier" and lacked the atmospheric ambience of the released version. I assume that what I heard was an early take of the song that had somehow been bootlegged - this is the first time I've heard an "unauthorized" studio recording by King Crimson. Although it's fascinating to hear stuff like this, I'm glad that this version was not the one that was ultimately released. Tony Evans tonyola at mediaone dot net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 23:29:10 +0100 From: King Crimson Subject: Fripp Hi ETers! At http://www.firstworldmusic.com/ you will find a new release of RIEFLIN, FRIPP, GUNN: The Repercussions of Angelic Behavior FWD 99.06 Bill Rieflin Robert Fripp Trey Gunn -available Nov.9 Also you find: surfacings 1 RAW POWER FWD 99.01 Trey Gunn Dave Douglas Bob Muller Pat Mastelotto Serpentine Lothar ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 19:08:00 -0600 From: "Paul Clark" Subject: KC In Mexico Download page Sucks!!! I sit here 2 and 1/2 hours downloading that damn file and get nothing. Media Player shows up then it disappears with a Window browser opening to a page that says for me to enter email address,well I did and still nothing plays. I give up,try releasing it on CD !!!! Online Downloads SUCK !!! If the future of music goes to this extreme I will hate Music & the Musicians who go there. Paul Clark arkangel at webzone dot net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 15:32:11 +1100 From: "Rob Dunkley" Subject: Cardboard CD Covers I love the actual Cirkus set but hate the container - if I had known in advance that it would come enshrined in cardboard I might not have ordered it in the first place (my listening loss though!). Why anyone would think that issuing a CD in a cardboard cover reminiscent of a long departed, unlamented, black disk is a step into the future is beyond me. As far as I'm concerned, CD manufacturers should stick to the plastic cases we are all now used to because: a: they are more durable than the cardboard ones; b: they fit into all the CD storage units on the market; and c: they are cheaper to produce (maybe meaning cheaper CD's - maybe not). That's it, I've had my whinge. Rob D. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 11:46:48 -0500 From: Dave & Racqui Subject: Saturday Night Live Anybody else catch approx 5 secs of LTiA I on SNL this w/e? (One of the parts similar to the section between 3:39 and 3:56.) dc et 9 http://www.tidalwave.net/~dumela/index~1.htm -- Midnight Mecca Online! Check it out. http://www.midnightmecca.com brought to you by: deltaq Associates Ltd ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 12:18:39 -0800 From: "Anonymous01 Anon1" Subject: Further KC "sightings" on USA TV I don't usually watch much late-night TV, but I happened to be up late the last few nights, and... (1) Either Thurs. or Fri. night (11/11 or 11/12), just as Dave Letterman cut to a commercial, Paul Shaffer and the band ripped into the opening chords of "21st Century Schizoid Man"... and then (2) last night (Sat. 11/13), on Saturday Night Live, Garth Brooks was playing a down-on-his-luck songwriter who makes a deal with the devil. As the devil arrives with a thunderclap & a cloud of colored smoke, we hear several seconds of evil-sounding music... from "Larks' Tongues in Aspic, Pt. 1" ! Does Fripp have some sort of deal with the devil (i.e. NBC-TV) himself? Ha ha... Anon1 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 15:25:15 +0800 From: Brady Drum Company / Chris Brady & Craftsmen Subject: The real hidden track in the P-Box. Greetings and Goodwill to all. To all the folks with the ProjeKct box: Play Masque no.8 and cut to 2:20 on the track. Does anyone else hear The Sheltering Sky (part 2)?????? Great Stuff!! Shane Brady. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 17:26:28 -0500 From: Gary Davis Subject: Crimson related news Hi, folks: The latest Artist Shop newsletter is out and you'll find it in its entirety at . Meanwhile, here's an excerpt that will be of special interest to Yes fans: Recently released from Discipline - King Crimson/The ProjeKcts, a 4-CD Box Set of entirely new King Crimson material. In November 1997 King Crimson began touring in a series of sub-groups or ProjeKcts of its 6 members: Adrian Belew, Bill Bruford, Robert Fripp, Trey Gunn, Tony Levin and Pat Mastelotto. These 4 CD's, one for each of the 4 different ProjeKcts, document the radically new material developed in this period - a must for all KC fans. It includes ProjeKct One - Live at the Jazz Cafe, ProjeKct Two - Live Groove, ProjeKct Three - Masque, ProjeKct Four - West Coast Live. Also available is King Crimson/The ProjeKcts-The Deception Of The Thrush, a one CD compilation from the box set. The new issue of Expose (#18) will be going to press the week of 11/1, and should be available before mid-month. 84 pages, loaded with information, not advertising. Among this issue features is: * Interview with Bill Bruford (Earthworks) Occasionally I've seen inquiries on the list about Centipede's Septober Energy. Centipede was a huge group of musicians that was led by Keith Tippet. Their one album was originally released in the early '70's. It was produced by Robert Fripp and featured Ian McDonald amongst a very large ensemble of progressive musicians. This has finally been re-released on CD and can be found in our import section . BTW, something not mentioned in the newsletter, I recently got access to some of the Bill Bruford & Earthworks/A Part and Yet Apart Japanese release at a reduced rate. Normally these go for 29.95. But until this stock is depleted, these will be going for just $15.95! The Japanese version featured a bonus track of Earthworks doing a live performance of If Summer Had It's Ghosts. If anyone's interested, let me know right away as they probably won't last too long. This is not listed on the website at this price. Gary ************************************************************** Gary Davis The Artist Shop The Other Road http://www.artist-shop.com artshop at artist-shop dot com phone: 330-929-2056 fax:330-945-4923 SUPPORT THE INDEPENDENT ARTIST!!! ************************************************************** Check out the latest Artist Shop newsletter at http://www.artist-shop.com/news.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 21:53:35 -0600 From: Alexander Domrin Subject: An exclusive interview with David Cross Hello everybody: Those of you reading in Russian may visit the website of the Belorussian periodical called "Musical Newspaper": http://www.nestor.minsk.by/mg/mg9910/mg94200.html One of the latest issues of the newspaper (#42) contains an exclusive interview with David Cross: http://www.nestor.minsk.by/mg/mg9910/mg94214.html Best, Alex P.S. In recent issues of the Musical Newspaper you may also read exclusive interviews with Annie Haslam (No.43); and Mick Box of Uriah Heep (No.42). ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #623 ********************************