Reply-To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Discipline #62 Discipline, Number 62 Thursday, 22 October 1992 Today's Topics: Steely Crimson Crimson Covers Covers Trey Gunn solo release Cover versions Re: Cover versions Crimsonite Covers Crimso Covers RE: Trey Gunn Comments on Belew's _Electronic Guitar_ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: urgent at elea dot umd dot edu (Gen) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 14:33:03 -0400 Subject: Steely Crimson Hey, or maybe King Dan! I must admit, I've never had Paolo's fantasy, but I whole heartedly endorse it. Question is: is there already a link here with Levin? Or the possible Marrota (sp?). I feel like a bit af trivia is hangin' in my head. I personally dream of the Roches backing up Adrian, but that's another story... listing in the wind... gent [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 10:02:57 PDT From: Guardian of the Alpha Architecture Subject: Crimson Covers In the last mailing, Robert Steinberger asked about Crimson covers. The earliest cover I recall is the Canadian hard rock band April Wine covering "Schizoid Man" in the late seventies. More recently, the Boston based jazz band Either/Orchestra covered "Red". Finally, I recently heard an industrial/dance cover of "I Talk To The Wind" complete with samples of the flute parts off the original recording. Brian Rost rost at rgb dot enet dot dec dot com 508-568-6115 DEC, Hudson, MA ******************************************************************************* "There's too many hands in your persimmon pie, when one hand is my desire" -Roosevelt Sykes ******************************************************************************* [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 11:08:41 MDT From: pmartz at dsd dot es dot com (Paul Martz) Subject: Covers > I came accross the first King Crimson cover version i've ever encountered: > a version of '21st schizoid man' by the Swiss jazz-hard-core crossover > band Alboth! [ ... ] > > Are there any other covers around? i can hardly imagine... April Wine, a Canadian hard rock band, also covered this tune back in the '79-'81 time frame (don't remember exactly when it came out). -paul pmartz at dsd dot es dot com Evans & Sutherland [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 13:22:46 EDT From: dmandl at shearson dot com (David Mandl) Subject: Trey Gunn solo release I haven't heard this solo release, but I'd be willing to bet that it's worth getting. I saw Trey perform live at The Knitting Factory in NYC a couple of years ago as part of a "Stick Summit"-- four Chapman Stick players playing solo and in different combinations--and Trey's set (with a percussionist) was absolutely fantastic. I told him that he had an open invitation to be on my radio show any time he wanted (he eventually did come down, but it was with Fripp and Toyah to talk about the Sunday All Over the World LP). I hate cassettes because the quality is always below par, but if it's the only format available, you should probably go for it. --Dave. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 13:27:54 EDT From: dmandl at shearson dot com (David Mandl) Subject: Cover versions Another cover version that comes to mind (also of "Schizoid Man") was done by the band Unrest a few years ago. I think it's on their first LP, and I think the LP's untitled, but my memory's fading. BTW, it's not too good, though I like a lot of their other stuff. --Dave. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Daniel Brown Subject: Re: Cover versions Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 14:24:29 EDT > Are there any other covers around? i can hardly imagine... April Wine did a cover of "21st Century Schizoid Man." Not bad, but certainly nothing like the original. -- Daniel W. Brown (brown at pollux dot cs dot uga dot edu) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 11:39:05 PDT From: "John M. Relph" Subject: Crimsonite Covers I believe that a cover of "I Talk To The Wind" was reported on Discipline fairly recently, by the band Opus III (or is it Opus 3), a cheesy image band from England who do light dance music with breathy female vocals. It is a very surprising cover. Which is to say that it is surprising that they would cover the song. Very strange, but I like it, in its own way. Should be widely available. -- John [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 14:36:22 EDT From: Jason Subject: Crimso Covers In response to the letter in Discipline #61, April Wine, the Canadian Rock Group, has recorded a cover of "21st Century Schizoid Man" as well. I heard members of the band talking about it on Montreal radio recently, and they said that they actually played it some years ago at some sort of large festival (in California, I think), in which King Crimson also played. After their set, April Wine ran into the members of King Crimson, who revealed that they were unaware of the existence of this cover, and were very impressed by it. I have yet to hear it, but it must be pretty decent. -Jason Finestone Yale University [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Return-Path: Date: 19 Oct 1992 12:08:47 -0500 (EST) From: keens at phillip dot edu dot au Subject: Re: Discipline #61 To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Toby What will be one of many responses I imagine, re covers Opus III has recently done a dance/groove version of 'I talk to the wind', ELP did 'Epitaph' as an epitaph to the live version of Tarkus on 'Welcome back my friends etc'. On the new Crimson, of which I've heard little, I must admit to being a little disappointed that Adrian Belew is in again - the weakest part of that incarnation was (obviously mho) Belew's singing/ rapping (eg elephant talk, thela hun ginjeet [what is that title about, one reviewer mentioned the obvious pun and I've been lost ever since], though when mellow, such as Heartbeat, he does sing nice). Het, maybe vocalists were always the weak link in the crimson chain. Please don't strike me off the mailing list for these perhaps heretical opinions - am enjoying discipline. Will I have the time/discipline to search the archival editions for interesting titbits? Do you have an index or backcopy mailing list [ Sure, look on ftp.uwp.edu -- Toby ] thanks Jeremy Keens (Dr) RMIT - Bundoora Anatomy and Physiology (keens at phillip dot edu dot au) ............................................................................ ...................................................... Here Comes Everybody Me, Jake and Anna Livia Plurabelle..........O tell me all [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 19 Oct 92 16:38:49 CDT From: BI17ABF To: Subject: Crimson Covers RS> I came accross the first King Crimson cover version i've ever RS> encountered: a version of '21st schizoid man' RS> Are there any other covers around? i can hardly imagine... If I recall, April Wine (Canadian rock band) also did '21st Century Schizoid Man' on one of their albums, though I don't know which. Asia has done 'Starless' on a live album. You may argue that since it was Wetton, it isn't a cover. But I argue that if it ain't got Fripp, it's a cover. =8) Mike Taylor piscine at rs1 dot tcs dot tulane dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 19 Oct 92 8:15:31 EDT From: 1LT Robert Friedman 5-3502 Subject: RE: Trey Gunn Good day, eh? I own "Raw Power" on the *dreaded* cassette format. I too was skeptical of purchasing the recording in this form, but no more... This is a fantastic album, with only stick and percussion. The high end of the Stick sounds very "Frippy" in some sections--must be that Guitar Craft training :-) Listening to this album, you get the feeling that Gunn may have been the driving force behind the music in the Sunday All Over the World album rather than Fripp. Overall, a very pleasing album and worth the money (heck, I paid $12 US at the Fripp/Belew concert in Washington). Buy it! -Bob -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- "Why do we kill people who kill people : "Mr. Neutron--easily the most to show people that killing people is : dangerous man in the world!" wrong" -Anon. : -M. Python Bob Friedman is Mr. Neutron at rfriedma at aeha1 dot apgea dot army dot mil -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 21 Oct 92 18:57:41 PDT From: ee152fcy at sdcc15 dot UCSD dot EDU (Paolo Valladolid) Subject: Comments on Belew's _Electronic Guitar_ I happened to walk into my local Tower video store and what should I find but a video by Adrian Belew. Since it would only cost me $0.49 to rent it as opposed to buying it for $49.95 list ;-), I happily picked it up. The video starts with speeded up footage of Belew and Rich Denhart, who engineered his first three albums, scurrying about setting up his musical equipment. Belew starts off with a tour of his equipment, explaining how he tweaked his flanger to get that "elephant" sound, for example, or how he made the rhino roar on his guitar. Interspersed with all this are shots of Belew playing riffs from "Big Electric Cat", "Heartbeat", "Ideal Woman", "Dig Me", and other tunes; as well as parts of an interview conducted by Denhart. Belew also shows little tricks he does with a slide, some in unconventional ways, and demonstrates his mastery of the volume knob. He finishes Part I with explanations of how he uses delays and a demonstration of his 16-second delay unit. He layers his Belewotronics and then with a sheepish look removes his guitar, places it on a stand, and walks off camera while the delay loop continues to play. Part II covers Belews guitar synthesizers, fretless guitar, alternate tunings, and some soloing techniques. It begins with shots of Belew playing synth riffs from "The Rail Song" and "Ballet for a Blue Whale" and improvising Fripp-like synth solos. He explains how he often tunes his guitar synth a fifth above the guitar and explains two of his tunings ( the "Heartbeat" tuning and another tuning with the G string tuned up to an A ). Later, he plays the "Man With An Openn Heart" riff on his fretless guitar. What mystifies me is why, after all the time and effort he obviously put into the fretless guitar, did Belew apparently abandon that instrument eventually? I haven't heard fretless guitar on his last three albums. It's a very innovative and unique instrument ( at least in rock music ). Part II closes with the section on soloing. Now Adrian doesn't give theory lessons or picking exercises here ( he apparently assumes that the viewer can pick up that information elsewhere ). What he focuses on are physical techniques for getting sounds out of the guitar, like yanking on the neck, pressing a string between the pickup poles, feedback notes via hammering on with a right hand finger ( these last two I haven't been able to reproduce, maybe because I practice thru a headphone amp and not with a speaker, which is necessary for feedback ), two-handed tapping, feedback manipulation with a Roland Jazz Chorus amp ( as heard on "Thela Hun Gingeet"), and something he does with his right hand behind his left on the neck which I couldn't see since the hands were blocking my vision, but which produced another cool feedback note. Throughout the video, Belew addresses the viewer in a friendly, down-home, self-effacing manner. At times, he seemed like a big kid showing off his toys endearingly. There was one moment where he was demonstrating the strange reaction his guitar synth has to right hand tapping when suddenly the synth just goes nuts and Belew stands there with a hand to his ear, smile widening, until he couldn't take it anymore and bursts out laughing. One impression that one gets is that he doesn't take himself too seriously, unlike a certain former bandmate of his. BTW, Belew would have taken a lot of abuse from Fripp if he were a Guitar Craft student because of his playing style; in the form of comments like "Your left thumb, it should not be fretting notes like that! Why is your left thumb on the fingerboard?!? It should be in the middle of the back of the neck!". He's like Pat Metheny and Hendrix in that, in spite of "wrong" technique, incredible cascades of notes leap out of the guitar. The video closes with the camera focusing on photos lying on the floor; Belew with Bowie, Belew posing for the "Twang Bar King" cover drawing, album covers, and other photos of Belew. Oddly enough, the camera avoids the King Crimson group photo ( of the group in happier times, everyone all smiles and hugging each other ) until almost the last moment. Cheers, Paolo [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] To join this mailing list or have your thoughts in the next issue, please send electronic mail to Toby Howard at the following address: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk The Discipline archives are available on "ftp.uwp.edu". The views expressed in discipline are those of the individual authors only.