Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #616 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 616 Monday, 4 October 1999 Today's Topics: NEWS: GCT in Newport RI 10/12 NEWS: New Trey Gunn album in November USA -- again More Crimson/Tool Charles Mingus Meets KC -- Not Mexico City show Live in Mexico City; what Pat can really do KC related news! cd length hippies DGM and new KCCC rules Night Watch edit Mike Giles & Leo Sayer Double Duo / ITCOTCK 30th ARM Re: Rick & Keith(and Steve) Miles Smiles Upon Us Album artwork search CD Length Robert Fripp's webchat Top 5 at 5 Lizard no big deal,big deal Prog in London Collector's Club No. 7 vs. Boddy/ Reuter Fripp's off the deep end Live at Plymouth - 11/may/71 ITCOTCK and Lark's tongue vinyl--still sealed The roar of ProjeKct Four Mellotron, once again Adrian Belew CD for sale (again) Marquee Re-Release! 2 Questions Mogul Thrash ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.5b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 09:45:55 -0400 From: Martin Bradburn Subject: NEWS: GCT in Newport RI 10/12 The California Guitar Trio will be performing at the Newport Congregational Church in Newport RI on October 12th. The Church is located in downtown Newport at the corner of Pelham St & Spring Street. The doors open at 6 pm the first band is at 7.00. The Church is a beautiful space, the interior of which was designed by John Lefarge who did a lot of the interior work at Trinity Church in Boston. The Church has organized a arts committee to promote the' church as and artist space, gallery. and help with restoration of the church. They have hosted artists in residence and this is the first show of what we hope will be a continuing music series. The last show in a church I saw was Washington Sq. with Robert, CGT, Gauchos and the Wilsons. If that was an indication of the possibilities in such a space, this could be a special show. The opening acts are, Oracular a Stick/Flute Duo (sometimes with percussionist) http://www.moonsite.com/oracular/ and Richard Leo Johnson (12 string Guitarist). http://members.aol.com/jahbo/ The tickets are $15.00 and reservations can placed at 849-2238. In a related note Tony Levin will be doing some dates with the CGT, currently the 11th at the Bottom Line and tentatively the 12th at Johnny D's in Somerville MA. Check Yamanashi News at http://www.cgtrio.com/yamanews.htm for more details. Martin Bradburn ______________________________________________________________ | 'We know others to the extent we know ourselves' | | - Guitar Craft Aphorism | ______________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 13:27:37 +0300 From: "Jarmo Muukka" Subject: NEWS: New Trey Gunn album in November This is for Trey Gunn fans who doesn't know it yet. Trey will release a new album in November. This is from Trey's web at http://www.treygunn.com/onlinestore.html Also there is a link to online store where you can order Raw Power. Please do, it's worth buying. JMu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 17:51:08 -0400 From: Ted White Subject: USA -- again Bobster asks, "Why am I having such a difficult time finding a copy of King Crimson USA on compact disc? This is my favorite Crimso recording and the only one I can't find. Can anyone out there help me?" Because it has never been released on CD? There *was* talk of a USA II a year or two ago, and talk of releasing *both* the original live tapes (with Cross on violin) and the USA overdubs (Jobson on violin overdubbed) in a double-CD setup -- which, as I recall, was overwhelmingly approved by ETers here -- but I haven't heard anything more about that project since the advent of the Collectors Club. Maybe it's time to start getting the ball rolling again. --TW (Dr P) dc-et #6 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 17:55:29 EDT From: Belewp at cs dot com Subject: More Crimson/Tool I just bought a Tool live video intitled " live in Sacremento", and guesss what the bands stage intro tape consisted of......music from Fripp's "Live in Argentina" soundscapes. It seemed very fitting . ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 18:24:15 -0400 From: Ted White Subject: Charles Mingus Meets KC -- Not Steve Dinsdale sez: "Oh yes, (stop me if you've heard this) check out John McLaughlin `Extrapolation' from early 1969. Indisputably a major influence on the young Fripp's chordal style. One more thing....Charles Mingus ! A piece called `Haitian Fight Song' from an album called `The Clown'. (The middle of `Pictures Of a City' me thinks) and for some strangely Crimsonesqe intensity from 1963 try an album by Mingus called `Right Now' it's cheap and I think you'll love it !" As a fan of Charles Mingus since the mid-fifties, I applaud and endorse any recommendations of his music. Indeed, I recommend the following sites for my own specific reviews of a number of his more important albums: http://www.holeintheweb.com/drp/mingus.htm (review of his boxed set of Atlantic recordings from the fifties and early sixties) http://www.holeintheweb.com/drp/drpcm2.htm (review of his two Columbia albums from the fifties and what's been done with them) http://www.holeintheweb.com/drp/drpcm3.htm (review of his 1962 Town Hall Concert, what led up to it and its consequences) and http://www.holeintheweb.com/drp/drpcm4.htm (review of his seventies Columbia recordings) That said.... I asked Robert Fripp in 1979 whether he'd ever heard much Mingus, or been influenced by him (I was thinking of sections of LIZARD), and he told me that he hadn't. His only exposure to Mingus was via a Period sampler which came out in the mid-fifties, which had one track from a 10" Period LP by Mingus. But the track in question was not by Mingus and was untypical of the album it was from, since it was by Teo Macero (who was then in Mingus's group). (The 10" LP was one of a two-LP set called JAZZICAL MOODS. Both LPs are on the CD of the same name from Original Jazz Classics. Shortened versions -- minus Macero's track -- have been issued on LP and CD as THE JAZZ EXPERIMENTS OF CHARLES MINGUS and under other titles, on various labels over the years.) In my opinion, Charles Mingus is the most important composer to come out of jazz. He was also a virtuoso bassist, and a remarkable pianist. I could wish to hear King Crimson *more* influenced by him -- that would be exciting -- but I hardly expect it. Mingus created music of great emotional impact. King Crimson used to do that too. I await with bated breath the product of its next incarnation. --TW (Dr P) dc-et #6 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 17:32:09 -0600 From: Phoenix Subject: Mexico City show Hi! I've noticed since several newsletters ago, that people who live too far away from USA never could download the show of Mexico City 1996, even people from Mexico. I live in Mexico City and I already have the show, I can't put it on CD and I'm not interested in that, but I've recorded it on an analog tape, it will ever sound better on your stereo than on your computer and I could say that the tape has almost the same sound that the media file. Please feel free to contact me about it. On the other hand, where can I find the new album of Ian Mcdonald? The record companies always release the european versions to Mexico, and the european version of that album was released a couple of months ago and I still unable to find it, please help me with that. -- Phoenix FOREIGNER Rock Band Page http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/8471 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 16:48:31 -0700 From: "Scott Steele" Subject: Live in Mexico City; what Pat can really do >Join the "Live In Mexico City" Liberation Front! CD si, MS no! Viva la raza! >I look forward to hearing what Pat can really do. Anybody else excited about the possibilities? - S. np: Weather Report first album scottst at ohsu dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 21:42:33 -0400 From: Gary Davis Subject: KC related news! Hi, folks: The latest Artist Shop newsletter is out and you'll find it in its entirety at . Here's the info of most interest to Crimson fans. We have some very exciting news on our Discipline page . BIG NEWS!! 'KING CRIMSON/LIVE IN MEXICO CITY' DOWNLOAD!!! Many of you have probably already heard about this, but for those of you who might have missed it, King Crimson Live in Mexico City can now be downloaded! It's FREE for a limited time only and will not be available in any other format. This is a wonderful live concert that includes a rare double trio performance of the King Crimson classic '21st Century Schizoid Man!' Of course, you'd have to been offline for the past several weeks not to know about this download. But for reasons unbeknownst to me the original URL for the download is no longer good. But the link on my Discipline page is to the new and currently correct download. Available now, King Crimson/In the Court of the Crimson King - Special limited 30th anniversary edition of the legendary English prog rock group's phenomenal 1969 debut album in deluxe packaging. Digitally remastered using 24 bit technology, it comes in a unique, limited edition, cardboard stock gatefold sleeve just as the original vinyl LP was release in 1969 with the original artwork & sleeve notes intact, plus some previously unpublished archive photos. Five tracks, including '21st Century Schizoid Man' and 'In The Court Of The Crimson King'. (This newly remastered version will revert to a standard jewel case packaging in February 2000.) PROJEKCT THREE-MASQUE - Japanese edition of the 1999 outing by this prog rock trio comprised of King Crimson members Robert Fripp, Trey Gunn & Pat Mastelotto. 13 tracks & over 52 minutes of music. Available from Japan before the rest of the world. John Paul Jones/Zooma - This roaring and powerful 9 track instrumental album features Jones playing four-string, ten-string, and twelve-string basses, as well as bass lap steel, kyma, mandola, organ and guitars, while also arranging and conducting members of the London Symphony Orchestra for one of the tracks. John Paul Jones envisions Zooma as the advent of an on-going solo career. He is keen to return to touring, and a planned world tour will begin with major cities in the US in the fall. We've got a lot of new and forthcoming releases added to our Voiceprint page many of which have just come out in the last month including these gems: Various Artists/The Sky Goes All The Way Home - This project was co-ordinated by Ashley Franklin of BBC Radio Derby's Soundscapes (Mojo and The Wire both highlight his show). His 15 year old daughter Claire, has Downes Syndrome and she attends Parkwood School, Alfreton in Derbyshire. Whilst the family were on holiday, Claire, whilst gazing out of a car window said "the sky goes all the way home..." Because of her condition, Claire's sentences are few and far between. This extraordinarily poetic phrase inspired Ashley to contact hundreds of musicians in order to compile an album. All profits from this release will go to Parkwood School (to raise funds for their minibus) and The Downes Syndrome Association, whose director has written some of the sleeve notes. Ashley has compiled a 35 track double cd, 25 tracks of which are exclusive to this release, and the running time is over 2 and a half hours. There is a sensible balance between local musicians and names of international repute - Robert Fripp, John Wetton, Peter Hammill, Rick Wakeman, Anthony Phillips, Celtus, No-Man, Roy Harper, Biosphere, Gordon Giltrap, Kevin Coyne, Nick Harper, In The Nursery, The Enid and many more. Bass Communion/Bass Communion (2) - Bass Communion's second release continues where its first left off, creating a distinctive and emotionally resonant electro-organic fusion of ambient loop music, minimalism and darkly evocative textures. Bass Communion is Porcupine Tree/No-Man member Steven Wilson. Stylistically it's reminiscent of Brian Eno's and Terry Riley's systems experiments, the dark atmosphere's of Paul Schutze and Thomas Koner and the textural avant-garde of Carl Stone and Moron Feldman. One track features Robert Fripp and the other collaboraton is with Dutch sound designers, The Square Root of Sub. John Wetton/Sub Rosa - Live in Milan - An acoustic concert, recorded on July 5th 1998 at the medieval castle of Vigevano, a town designed by Leonardo Da Vinci on the outskirts of Milan. For this set John is joined by Martin Orford (IQ) on keyboards, flute, vocals and David Kilminster on acoustic guitar and vocals. This was the first time that John had played Milan since Asia in 1982 and before that with King Crimson in 1973, expectations were high, the moon was rising the sun was sinking and the stage was set for a magic evening. Mogul Thrash/Mogul Thrash - The sole album that Mogul Thrash released was recorded at Advision Studios in the summer of 1970, engineered by Eddie Offord (Yes, ELP) with production by Brian Auger. The band comprised John Wetton (who went on to Family, King Crimson, Asia, etc), James Litherland (ex-Colosseum), Malcom Duncan and Roger Ball (who went on to form The Average White Band), Bill Harrison (ex-Glass Menagerie). Lyrics were by Pete Brown (Jack Bruce, Cream, etc). Mogul Thrash toured extensively in the UK and Europe and even managed to score a hit single in Belgium with Sleeping In The Kitchen, which features as a bonus track on this release. The music was halfway between British Progressive Rock and the band Chicago, the band broke up due to poor sales, managerial pressures and fabulous debt, thus ensuring that this record has become highly desirable on the collectors market. On a personal note, I was delightfully surprised by the quality of music on Mogul Thrash. The comparison to a progressive Chicago seems quite apt. Unfortunately this CD seems to have been mastered from vinyl - OUCH! But at present, this is the only official release available for this album. So for it's historical value and the high quality of the music, I do recommend it. It's a pity I can't equally praise the sound quality. In our New Label section we have some new releases by David Sylvian. Coming soon is David Sylvian/Approaching Silence - Music the former Japan leader recorded with King Crimson's Robert Fripp in 1994 in Tokyo. Contains 'Redemption - Approaching Silence', plus two cuts previously released as a limited edition in 1991. >From the Renaissance Records catalog you'll find the following from John Wetton: John Wetton/ARkANGel - John Wetton, probably best known as one of the founding members of Asia, has proved his genius as a solo artist through the years. Renaissance Records has previously released his collaborative work with Phil Manzanera-Wetton Manzanera and solo project Caught In The Crossfire. This latest Renaissance release is a more recent work, recorded in 1996-97. Arkangel was first released in Japan in 1997 on Pony Canyon. Last year it was released in Europe on Eagle Rock. Arkangel is now complete with all fifteen tracks available on the foreign releases, plus two as yet unnamed bonus tracks (never before released)!!! Be prepared to see more of John Wetton in the coming years on Renaissance. His latest recording, No Man's Land is slated for early 2000. John Wetton/Caught In The Crossfire - John Wetton, a man who has been in more bands than most of us have had hot dinners, was born in Derby, England in June of 1949. His musical career has spanned nearly 35 years, bringing us some of rock's most memorable projects. John's musical heritage includes King Crimson, Roxy Music, Uriah Heep, Bryan Ferry's band, and UK. He may be more recently remembered as one of the founding members of Asia. Ex-Yes members Steve Howe and Geoff Downes, along with Wetton and Carl Palmer formed one of the first "supergroups" of the 1980s. Together they produced a monster debut album, Asia. It was the biggest selling album in the U.S. in 1982, staying at number one on the US album charts for 9 weeks. Caught In The Crossfire is a solo project John completed during his hiatus between the bands UK and Asia in 1980. And the latest import releases can be found at SINFIELD,PETE-STILL Japanese reissue of the former King Crimson member's solo debut, originally released on the Manticore label in 1973. Digitally remastered using 20 bit K2 Super Coding technology, it comes packaged in a miniaturized gatefold LP sleeve with the original artwork intact, right down to the embossed front & back covers and the dragon painting mounted on the cover! Nine tracks. Gary ************************************************************** Gary Davis The Artist Shop The Other Road http://www.artist-shop.com artshop at artist-shop dot com phone: 330-929-2056 fax:330-945-4923 SUPPORT THE INDEPENDENT ARTIST!!! ************************************************************** Check out the latest Artist Shop newsletter at http://www.artist-shop.com/news.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 22:34:26 -0400 From: moses Subject: cd length hippies Someone or another wrote: >> 'Night Watch' could have easily fit onto one CD if discreet editing >> occurred. And someone else wrote: > Really? Both CDs combined come to something just under 84 minutes. Since > standard CDs are defined to a limit of 74 minutes and that players are > only guaranteed to play that lengfth of CD, exactly what ten minutes > would you be happy to lose from the 'Night Watch'? I know that 74 minutes is the length they advertise when they sell CD-R discs, but I have numerous cds that are longer than that. The Orb's *Orbus Terrarum* is 79:41, and I've heard that there are 80 minute cds available, but that still leaves the question: Which four minutes would you cut? And someone else wrote: > good evening hippies, I'm not offended, but not all KC fans are hippies (back to that required age thread). That's all for now. Good day to you all. Peace, Love, and Happiness Moses ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:33:27 +0200 From: "SYNCHRO, RONALD VOGEL" Subject: DGM and new KCCC rules Hi all I am writting not to be on DGM's side but only to give my business opinion about the subject. It is IMHO obvious that DGM is experiencing some organizational problems. If i am not being able to get simple answer's from them, imagine the stress they are going through. Well that is not the point. What i would like to say is that whenever you start a projetc like the Collector's Club you establish minimal conditions for it to be profitable and allow it to , at least, break even. CC has a list of approx 3000 members. If every member would ever use the membership credits to buy other DGM's products, it would be very difficult to DGM to control it all and even worse to plan profit margins for future releases. What i think is that if DGM does not change the rules we would have the risk to have the CC closed due to non profitable operation. Some may disagree and say that DGM should get better organised to control it using a computer system developed exclusively for this type of operation or that Fripp is breaking innitial rules. Well that he is doing for sure and who wants to complain is full of reasons. I accept it anyway. I do not want that the Club "cease to exhist" (isn't it new?). So i accpet new rules. Where can i get so much material from any band i like so much. Well, is it a Collector's Club or not? We are collecting rare material directly from the best quality source we can ever get. Who else offers it? I am a Kc collector and buy whatever i can find in distant Brazil (believe me, it is a lot). Collector's Club for me is a very big bonus. I pay $19 for each volume ($3 more than US members) and it is worth anyway. Feel free to answer. This is the right place for it. Crim cheers to all of you Ronald Vogel ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 8:39:20 -0500 From: "Damon C. Capehart" Subject: Night Watch edit Mike Dickson wrote: > "David Voci" wrote... > > 'Night Watch' could have easily fit onto one CD if discreet editing > > occurred. > Really? Both CDs combined come to something just under 84 minutes. > Since standard CDs are defined to a limit of 74 minutes and that players > are only guaranteed to play that length of CD, exactly what ten minutes > would you be happy to lose from the 'Night Watch'? Actually, CDs can be up to 80 minutes long, and - at least in my experience - I haven't seen a CD player unable to handle any of my longer ones. Examples off the top of my head include the Orb's Orbvs Terrarvm at 79:58, as well as many of Klaus Schulze's recent CDs, including many of those in his 25 CD set Jubilee Edition. What DGM would have sacrificed - in addition to the 4 minutes of music - is the interactive multimedia thing. Damon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 09:52:07 -0700 From: "WK" Subject: Mike Giles & Leo Sayer Dear Fellow Spock-rockers, I was recently amusing myself with the tragic-comedy of the once great Leo Sayer and lo and behold amongst the musician credits but whose name should appear? Mike Giles??? Does anybody know if the Mike Giles credited for playing drums on "The Show Must Go On", "One Man Band" and "Long Tall Glasses" etc., is in actuality our beloved Michael Giles of KC? Not that playing for Leo is anything to be ashamed of...in fact Leos other cohorts during his 1973-1975 period included the likes of Russ Ballard of Argent/Zombies fame and Andrew Powell of The Alan Parsons Project and several other superb well known studio-musicians of the time. It's kinda funny how one can discover that a guy that once incorporated dressing up as a clown as his usual routine had a couple of tasty recordings that still sound fresh after all these years. Ah, but I know what you're all sighing..."what a waste of such an excellent prog drummer." Just kidding Leo! Anyway, I've been reading ET for about a year now and I can't recall anybody mentioning this or what became of Michael after KC. I guess it could have been worse and he could have joined Foreigner or Bad Company like some of the other guys did. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:32:10 -0500 From: Tim Read Subject: Double Duo / ITCOTCK 30th ARM Two points to make on this. >After reading the news that Belew was pulling out of King Crimson, like >many I'm sure, I started thinking, "what next?" Having never been >convinced that Belew could provide a vocal accompaniment that suited the >direction the ProjeKcts have been taking (not that anyone else here seemed >to think that topic worth discussing for some strange reason), it seemed >that perhaps Belewe had also come to the same conclusion. Given Fripp's >naming of the new formation as the "Double Duo", this obviously also meant >that Belew would play drums quite a bit. I think the Double Duo is more of a tongue-in-cheek reference to the Double Trio's name. I'm not saying you're not right -- I could have quite easily missed something on upcoming Crim. That being said, I hope we do get to hear a little Belew drumming on the next stuff. Not a whole lot, but just enough. :) I get so blown away by the guitar work on the 80's and double trio stuff that sometimes I forget that Ade can also play drums (and not too shabbily, as P2 bears witness). Second: ITCOCK 30th remaster. I admit, I admit. I've thought for years that this was an overrated album. Then I got the 30th remaster yesterday, and I finally understand now why some people get misty-eyed over various passages of ITCOCK, Epitaph, etc. This sounds like an entirely different version of the band compared to the Definitive Edition. Ian sounds a lot more prominent, the mix seems a little more open, and the packaging is fantastic. I can only imagine how Red will be after this. :) The shorthand: buy the 30th remaster. :) -Tim Read ------------------------------ Date: 28 Sep 99 14:45:30 EDT From: James Dusewicz Subject: Re: Rick & Keith(and Steve) I really enjoyed Chuck Bates' excerpt of an interview with Steve Howe. However, Steve Howe's take on the Rick Wakeman-Keith Emerson relationship, the acrimony between the two: >>"It might have been fueled by the fact that Rick, Keith, one of them, doesn't seem to appreciate the other one fully.">> doesn't seem to square with what Rick Wakeman said about Keith Emerson in the last(and final) paper edition of YESMAGAZINE. Rick and Keith seem to be good friends. And that after Rick tours RTTCOTE around until Spring of 2000, Wakeman and Emerson are planning to do a tour together. The plan is to do a tour, a live album from the tour, and a studio album. Though I really like Steve Howe, and I nearly own all of his solo albums, Steve is known to be occasionally self-serving in his interviews. And he is not beyond re-writing history if it somehow suits his current aims. jim campaigner at usa dot net James Dusewicz Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 ------------------------------ Date: 28 Sep 99 12:57:45 -0700 From: "David Voci" Subject: Miles Smiles Upon Us Hello Friends, Nice to see post from Steve Dinsdale in ET 615, How are you Steve? Steve is, as some of you might know, one of three players in a very progressive analogue synthi band from UK called Radio Massacre International...If you're not hip to them, then now's the time mon frers as RMI, excuse the trendy expression, shred!! 1)Keep releasing your material Steve and I have yet to get Borrowed Atoms, your last release and thanks for the mailing of the limited release 'A Bridge Too Far'. Steve is a regular sort of chap and very amiable in my posts with him regarding his band and such(Yes Ladies and Gentlemen, musicians are real people in many cases). 2)Concur with point Steve made about Miles Davis in ET615...This jazz/big ensemble thing gets in you after awhile and in addition to titles mentioned by Steve, there are a host of other equally entertaining titles released awhile back by CBS/Sony in the U.S. from the mid seventies fusion period of Miles, all live and great companion pieces to Agharta/Pangaea(Two double CD's , one recorded in the day, the other at night on the same date)...Dark Magus, In Concert, Live-Evil(McLaughlin again), Black Beauty, Live At Fillmore. Then there's 'Big Fun' which I haven't seen domestically(U.S.)which also gets into the improv/broody/minimalist sound textures. It's great to see an EM musician enjoying other styles and if you listen to Miles, you get a sense of many different elements of music history coming together...I would almost classify some Miles Improv as "Electronic, Ambiental Jazz". In regards to Centipede, there is a distinct possibility that someone(Steve Feigenbaum at Cuneiform or maybe Rob at Voiceprint)might just put this out...I don't know if this enters territory of too many musicians to get the publishing rights from(Like Stomu Yamashta's Go-Live in Paris)or what? There was another project of Mike Ratledge's in the late seventies called Planet Earth and I was wondering what readers here know about that as I believe there was a vinyl release at the time. Lastly, John Surman...a Brit jazzer, late sixties/early seventies who showcased the talents of John McLaughlin/Dave Holland/Marc Charig/Harry Beckett/Nick Evans etc in addition to doing Trio work with Barre Philips-Bass and Stu Martin-Drums...A baritone Sax player, JS is indeed a free blowing type of guy who puts out some really fine English slanted Free Jazz...There are a couple of double CD's that compile 4 of his albums(The Dawn Sessions) and then there are 3 releases from the early Deram catalogue that are available on CD...Check em out!!! Enjoy Everything, dv ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 16:12:03 -0500 From: "Noftz, Chris" Subject: Album artwork search This is neither a comment, nor a criticism...not an idea or an offer of help... I just came across your website and thought you folks might be able to help me. I want a copy of Islands on CD...but I really would like the album art that I have on my old album...the off-white with the multi-colored 'islands'. Is this version available anywhere? Thanks... c_noftz at hotmail dot com ------------------------------ Date: 28 Sep 99 15:55:28 -0700 From: "David Voci" Subject: CD Length In issue 615 this occurred: in et 614 "David Voci" wrote... > 'Night Watch' could have easily fit onto one CD if discreet editing > occurred. to which Mike Dickson(et at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk) in et 615 wrote: >>Really? Both CDs combined come to something just under >>84 minutes. Since >>standard CDs are defined to a limit of 74 minutes and >>that players are >>only guaranteed to play that lengfth of CD, exactly >>what ten minutes >>would you be happy to lose from the 'Night Watch'? >>And, as some people may already know, it is -already >>edited-; the gig >>kicked off with 'Larks Tongues In Aspic Part 1', no >>recording of which >>has (apparently) survived. Some bootlegs appear to >>have it, but it's >>always turned out to have been spliced on from another >>gig. To which I have to respond that I don't know where Mike got his maximum 74 minute information from but I can't think of any CD player that maxes out at 74 minutes... True, the blank CDR's only say 74 minutes(formatting for recording at home might explain this)but the professionally recorded ones do go all the way up to 79:56(my longest) minutes in some cases... I could list tons of CD's that I have that clearly go as high as this...(Robin Trower-Twice Removed/Bridge of Sighs, Fred Frith/Henry Kaiser-Friends and Enemies(79:25 per disc) not to mention that 3 of the 4 Great Deceiver Discs clock in at 76 minutes plus) but my comment was that if you could cram this much time onto one...4 more minutes could have easily been dispensed...Maybe not...and if not then Mr Fripp could have maybe searched for material to fill up these blanks areas(Bremen/Jacksonville), thus giving customers/fans that much more material for their money...The space is there... Maybe Night Watch is a bad example of overkill as the Great Deceiver IS out of print...Night Watch, if one has GD, is really unnecessary IMO unless you're a major Crim-inal... Another point about Fripp and that is before I listened to Great Deceiver and heard Rob's antics, I always thought that this guy was a super serious individual with nothing but a stone face but in listening to these crowd intros, it seems to me that Mr Fripp is indeed the jokester and that maybe this cold exterior is just that, a facade of sorts...RF seems to like to have fun with people and hearing him in this easy going, sometimes word stumbling mode, is invigorating... Best, dv ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:47:23 +0200 From: "Olivier" Subject: Robert Fripp's webchat Hi everybody, Reading ET for now more than six months, it's the first time I write in it. I know that a webchat happened earlier this month or at the end of August with Robert Fripp, but I don't remember on which web site it happened. Could anyone help me and tell it on my personal mail ? It could also be useful to have it on ET, in order to inform everyone of this former webchat.I think the minutes of the webchat are still on the website. I also bought CIRKUS some time ago. It seems to me that it's more than a good summary of KC's career although I don't have the talent of some to dissert about it during pages and pages.... Thanks in advance for your help Olivier ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:48:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Joseph Basile Subject: Top 5 at 5 Top 5 at 5 Songs in my head at this point in time. 5. Californication / RHCP 4. Peace a Theme/ IWOTP/KC 3. NYNYC/Hall/Fripp 2. Redemption Song /Marley 1. Something In 4/4Time Hall/Fripp Both 1,3, I never appreciated until I had the CD version of this.The solo in 4/4 time is CRIMSON, wow is it cool! Enjoy just about all the posts in the last ET. Joe * --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at Yahoo! Auctions. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 12:56:15 -0500 From: "SYNCHRO, RONALD VOGEL" Subject: Lizard Hi all Lizard fans. Fripp said about Lizard 2. "Lizard". At the end of the remastering process, I found myself strangely attracted to several / many parts of the album. But where it fails for me is in the inability of the (attractive, eguiling, amusing, peculiar, wobbly) parts to express the sense of a coherent whole. When Simon (demon mastering engineer) & I parted, he kindly expressed support for the albums we'd been working on, with the exception of "Lizard" which was (exact word escapes me, but this is close enough...) awful. He then said, but it "wasn't (Robert's) fault". Robert replied: "If it wasn't my fault, then whose was it?". I am not (as is said) "identified" with "Lizard". I listen to the work of these young men, 3 decades ago, with the same robust good humour I extend to the work of any young men at any period. Why remaster it given that I have unpleasant memories of the recording process? Because I feel an ongoing responsibility: i) I was partly/largely responsible for what I'm listening to today; ii) People continue to put their hard-earned pay on the counter to buy the album. If we accept their money, they deserve to have the best available format we can present to them in return. But, I would have thought this so obvious that the question be unnecessary. " He also said about Lizard: "I'm not 'identified' with 'Lizard' " " 'Lizard' lovers must be strange" " I listen to to the work of these young men with good humour" " very few of those ideas works" " 'Lizard' is unlistenable" IMHO: I like Lizard. I think some KC work cannot be compared to other albums just because the creating process and mood at the time it was generated was very different between each other (Did i make myself understandable? I am not a native speaker). At Lizard's time they were not playing live, the band was not really a band but a "pick up of musicians" gathered together to record an album for commercial purposes, if not contractual. How would someone expect some "sense of a coherent whole". I understand Fripp's feelings about it. But i am quite sure that any crimhead would think in a different way just because feelings and experiences are different from the creators. Well too much naive philosophing for now. Ronald Miklos Vogel ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:59:56 -0600 From: basculaesher at iserve dot net dot mx (Rosendo Espejel) Subject: no big deal,big deal It is no big deal that Adian was about to leave in fact that was good news.I dont think Crimson can be as surprising as could have been if this was to hapen.Who is to know what would it be,i think Belew has been on Crimson a little bit too much now and i definitley dont like him as a drumer.Lots of the gratest musicians these days would like to be in the band,it could have been very intresting to see such a huge change to happen. Fripp has always been a wise person and Crimson has always been a band with the best of luck in that matter. ?What about david torn and sylvian to fill the empty space? Big deal is that DGM canceled the miniaturaized LPs. I really like to know why or if this is momentary because i sold all my Crimson cds in order to be able to buy the others and now its been too long without them.?What is going to happen?,?perhaps they're going to be dated 2000? HELP. Santoyo ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 23:26:01 PDT From: "Alex Yeung" Subject: Prog in London Hi Crimson fans, Anyone have any suggestions for music to see in London? I will be there in October. Thanks Alex opiate333 at excite dot com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:06:48 +0200 From: "Sal Pichireddu" <21st dot century dot schizoid dot man at gmx dot net> Subject: Collector's Club No. 7 vs. Boddy/ Reuter Dear ETlers, as I am currently listening to the brandnew KC-CC No.7 CD "P4 in SF" (why do progheads always use abbreviations? ;-)) I have a kind of deja-vu... Some of the tracks (the more 'electronic') remind a great album, that has been released earlier this year: Ian Boddy & Markus Reuter - Distant Rituals (Check this link for more details: http://www.selse.demon.co.uk/DiN.html) All in all a very intense, suggestive & convincing mixture of electronic and 'progressive' music (if you want to use this terms). Highly recommended to those, who like tracks as "Ghosts" on the new P4. Surely two of the most innovative and exploring releases this year. Greetinx from Cologne, Sal P.S.: Oh, BTW - MR is member of the Europa String Choir. --- +++ IMPORTANT NEWS + IMPORTANT NEWS + IMPORTANT NEWS +++ Check out the Prog-Festival PROGPARADE Dec.,4th 1999 http://progparade.musicpage.de "Music speaks through one language, but in many dialects." (Robert Fripp) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 16:13:30 EDT From: BLonik13 at aol dot com Subject: Fripp's off the deep end As I see this new Crim lineup forming, I struggle with what Fripp has in mind to present us, his adoring buying public. My recollection is that he left it after the last edition completed its work as "the band is taking a break while the next musical ideas present themselves, but you're all welcome to participate when that time comes." Then he set about an impossible course of jerking the others around, making them jump through a variety of hoops with no end in sight or certainty that anything Crim would come of it all. Was he just trying to find the music, or was it some convoluted way of showing everyone who's boss, and those who can't hack it can depart? Bruford finally just got fed up with it and said forget it. Tony waited and waited and waited, took a gig to pay the bills while remaining loyal to Crimson, and then Robert decides it's time to go--NOW--and he's booked. Is that any way to treat people with whom you've been in a band for 25 and 20 years, respectively? Nothing against Trey and Pat; they're good guys and fine musicians, but playing in Crimson is the best thing that will ever happen to them, and consequently they're willing to play Fripp's games. Part of me wants to trust in Robert's notions, but part of me says he's gone off the deep end. Tony is the greatest casualty here. If I were starting a band and could choose any person in the world to have on my team, who else would I start with? He's reliable, energetic, capable, versitile, a perfect team player. How can Fripp just cast him aside? And how can there be a "Double Duo" when everyone plays a different instrument? I took great pleasure in Fripp's panicked diary entry when Adrian quit the band. Serves him right for all the nonsense he's perpetrated. It matters not to him, not as long as his adoring public is buying every last scrap of material he has on archive. Mr. Please Don't Bother Me for an Autograph--but I'll SELL one to you for a few bucks. Crimson and Fripp have been favorites of mine for a long time, ever since my brother returned from college in 1969 and played me Schizoid Man at high volume when I was a tender age of eight. I've generally respected Fripp for his pursuits and trusted his inclinations. Canning two of the world's finest musicians for an uncertain future casts a doubt on my perceptions. I'm curious to see what comes of this, but I expect a lot from these lads and hope not to be disappointed. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 09:40:00 -0300 From: "SYNCHRO, RONALD VOGEL" Subject: Live at Plymouth - 11/may/71 Hi all I have mentioned before some information about bootlegs but i decided to review this particualr one because of the high level of interest it may generate in fans of Mel / Boz / Ian formation. I hope i can start a wave of bootleging reviews, which is something i always wanted to do. After almost 1,5 years without any gig KC returned to live gigs in April 71 for 4 appearences in Frankfurt. The Plymouth show is the first one in England with the new formation. Islands has not been recorded at that time and the band was experiencing the songs in the shows. The repertoire is quite different from other 71 shows and radically different from 72 shows. Now a comment must be added to the review. In 71 the band broke apart and had to stay together until april 72 because of contractual clauses. So, all 72 shows were just contractual obligations and not a real album promotion tour. It can clearly be seen when comparing 71 recordings to 72 ones. 71 gigs shows a quite cohesive band playing Islands without many improvs, while 72 gigs were just blows as Fripp once said. Well, back to Plymouth. The tape was sent me by an american internet friend of mine (Brian "Brain" Barton) with whom i exchange live material mainly from this particular formation which seems to attract him a lot. I can provide the source but only by private mail. The songs are: - Cirkus - Pictures of a City - Sailor's Tale - The Letters - Lady of the Dancing Water - Cadence and Cascade - Get Thy Bearings - In the Court of the Crimson King - Ladies of the Road - Usual Fripp's funny comments - Devil's Triangle Having bought and traded lots of material from the formation, this is the first and only one until now that has "Bearings" and "ITCOKC". "Cirkus" is played faster, just like the album version, and differently from the latest versions which are slower and are something like 1,5 minute longer. Mel is always the highlight of the shows. "Pictures" follows and is played in the usual way. "Sailor's tale" comes without "Formenetera Lady" (which was not being written at that time - or i guess so) and is very different from what we are accostumed to listen. The logical sequence of the official version is there but played in a totally different way using different instruments. The guitar solo is not present and Mel's flute is very soft in the beginning. "The Letters" seems to be having minor changes between innitial shows and album. 'Lady of the Dancing Water" is very well sung by Boz and sets up "Cadence and Cascade" without interruptions as if they were just one. "Get Thy Bearings" leaves space for some improvs and is not that different from 69 formation. "ITCOKC" is very well played and sung and Mel's flute is a (as usual) highlight. Both songs were only played live by the formation in the early 71 shows and abbandoned later when Islands material started to be written. A very big bonus for a crimhead. "Ladies of the Road" is played heavier since the beggining. The lyrics were there but sung in a different order and slightly different. Boz sungs "I laughed and just unzipped her" instead of "Smile". Fripp's funny words and comments follows and we can hear the audience laughing tough it takes some patience to understand what he was saying. "Devil's Triangle" closes the gig with strong mellotron lines terrifying the listener. As my friend said it is "Crim heaven" for the affictionates and collectors. Too bad Fripp has not such material officialy recorded with him. Maybe he should find some "not so bad quality boots", restore and treat the sound and release it as a 4 CD box set of this formation. Dream on pal... Cheers to all of you. Ronald Vogel ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 12:38:51 -0400 From: "Snow, Rick" Subject: ITCOTCK and Lark's tongue vinyl--still sealed For those of you who do not subscribe to Goldmine, the most recent issue has a full page ad from The Record Club of America. Remember them? Growing up in a small city in West Texas, RCOA was my musical link to the outside world. As a matter of fact, I'm sure my first copy of ITCOCK was a selection of the month from RCOA. Well, they've been storing all their vinyl in a warehouse somewhere for the past twenty-five years and it has just now come to surface. These are all original issue--not reissues or cutouts. It is well worth "surfing" thru their site at http://www.recordclub.com just to take a stroll down memory lane. In so doing, they have two King Crimson titles available, still sealed, never before played--In The Court Of The Crimson King and Larks' Tongues in Aspic. Limited quantities available--or so they say. Also list McDonald & Giles. Have fun looking. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 19:39:24 +0200 From: POISSON Thomas Subject: The roar of ProjeKct Four Hi everyone, Some (personal) thoughts on Collector's Club 7 (ProjeKct Four in San Francisco) : - This record is highly addictive ! I have been stuck on it for a week or so. It's haunting me ! I am most enthusiastic about the possibilities of the Double Duo after hearing P4's music. - PatM reminds me of Jamie Muir in the way he uses percussive effects. He is simply amazing. - I had this idea : what if Robert or Trey played MIDI guitar with percussion sound ? - Is there a significant difference between CC7 and "West Coast Live" ? I hesitate between the Projekct Box and the Best Of, and this could alter my choice. Cheers, Thomas ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 01:03:11 -0700 From: Peter Drubetskoy Subject: Mellotron, once again Sorry, if it's already been mentioned or if nobody cares anymore but I only now realised that Van der Graaf Generator used mellotron on "Pawn Hearts" (and maybe somewhere else, I don't know). I couldn't remember seeing their name in your lists. Cheers, Peter. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 23:13:16 -0400 From: Kevin Subject: Adrian Belew CD for sale (again) Hello, I have a copy of Adrian Belew's CD, YOUNG LIONS for sale (includes Adrian's re-recording of Heartbeat). I'll send it to your door for $8 postage paid (in the US) Thanks Kevin ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 00:34:56 -0500 From: Scott Richardson Subject: Marquee Re-Release! When I renewed my KCC membership, I inquired about the possibility of a repressing of Club1. I received this reply: > Hi Scott, > Club # 1 (Marquee Club) has been repressed and is available now. > > Thanks, > Bill > DGM Woo-hoo! -Scott ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 17:36:29 -0400 From: "Michael J. Bennett" Subject: 2 Questions A friend loaned me a flexi-disc from an issue of Guitar Player magazine, January 1986, that is a wonderful song by Robert called "Easter Sunday". It has Frippertronics, straight acoustic guitar, and straight electric guitar. Was this ever released on an album? On the live Mexico internet concert, is that really Adrian singing "21st Century..."? I can't tell if he's disguising his voice to try to emulate the distortion usually used with that song or not. Thanks! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 09:04:25 +0200 From: izyrp at odn dot de Subject: Mogul Thrash I've just learnt that the Andorra CD from Mogul Thrash (with Wetton on bass and on one track on vocals) is just one Brian Auger production containing apparently outtakes only (or do they have to claim releasing alternate versions since they are not keen on legal problems with "Voiceprint" owing the original recordings?) Well, I hope I will find out. Means there's another Mogul Thrash CD from "Voiceprint", which I look forward to purchase too in order to compare both releases. To a gentleman asking if Mogul Thrash became Average White Band after Wetton's departure: No, not really. Firstly, Wetton didn't quit the band, they were simply disbanded to avoid legal problems. Secondly, only two musicians from Mogul Thrash (Duncan-tenor sax and Ball-saxes) appeared in AWBand, which also included Alan Gorrie (not from Mogul Thrash) with whom Wetton co-wrote his only composition within Mogul Thrash called "St.Peter". ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #616 ********************************