Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #615 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 615 Monday, 27 September 1999 Today's Topics: Alternate Futures KC Sheet Music? Tabs On Mellotrons As Usual Re: No Self Control and the birth of Discipline The Gouger USA CD question regarding rerelease Kinder Gentler Smelotron Adrian Belew - Out & In need information Re: Interview with Steve Howe of possible interest Expanding Horizons Re: Pavlov's dog KC LPs for Sale Raw Power; Mogul Thrash; Night Watch; Bruford's next project; Yes w/orch Stefano from Italy CC# 5 & 6 Collector's Club and upcomming KC tour... The Fragg Diaries Mid-70s KC live a KC-CC related chat Belew New NIN album ProjeKct One Track Naming Goodbye Adrian; Hello Adrian! projekct 2 live question Proj 4 / KC Collectors Club 8 Review: ProjeKCts box set What a Week! - ProjeKct's Box, ITCCC Remaster & Club No.7 The Great Deceiver not necessarily local ET'ers The New Rules Youth and KC Krimson 1982 (?) live "Aus dem Alabama" Live In Mexico Mexico City for Mac ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.5b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:22:06 PDT From: "Nomad Stem" Subject: Alternate Futures After reading the news that Belew was pulling out of King Crimson, like many I'm sure, I started thinking, "what next?" Having never been convinced that Belew could provide a vocal accompaniment that suited the direction the ProjeKcts have been taking (not that anyone else here seemed to think that topic worth discussing for some strange reason), it seemed that perhaps Belewe had also come to the same conclusion. Given Fripp's naming of the new formation as the "Double Duo", this obviously also meant that Belew would play drums quite a bit. So what could Fripp decide to do? One thought that appeared very intriguing was a P3 plus Bjork. Think about it. Who could best match the sonic quality of P3, and also actually possibly be interested, (and interesting)? Her name has been thrown around in the past before. But then the news came through that Belew had agreed to a lesser commitment in King Crimson, and the show would go on. And although that was good news, it was also slightly disappointing, wasn't it. Because gone was the alternate future that might have been, and instead we have a future that could likely mean less touring, less commitment, and likely less innovation. One has to wonder what ideas Fripp had in the few hours he would have had to think seriously about the possibilities. As one who professes to turn a seeming disadvantage into an advantage, he surely must have been thinking about such things. We may never know. Nomad ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:53:34 -0500 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: KC Sheet Music? I don't recall seeing any mention of this, but... has sheet music of any King Crimson material (any era, but for these purposes I'm most interested in the Lake and Wetton regimes) ever been published? If so, how is it accessible? -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt at metatronpress dot com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Shekhinah: The Presence http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 21:42:56 +0200 From: "Armando Ciuffa" Subject: Tabs Please, I want the tabs of Yamanashi Blues and Melrose Avenue from Kan-Non Power Robert Fripp's album. Where can I found its? Armando ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 17:53:15 GMT From: et at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk (Elephant Talk) Subject: On Mellotrons As Usual "Rob/Dianne Dunkley" wrote... > The instrument was apparently then given to a pianist, Alan Clare, > who, due to lack of space, on-forwarded it to Princess Margaret & Lord > Snowdon (after a brief return to Sellers) who subsequently supplied it > to Robin Douglas-Home (a writer, pianist & nephew of an ex-UK PM). It's worth mentioning that Princess Margaret made it known that she wanted a Mellotron, so Streetly Electronics manufactured a special black model with gold finishing for her. After she conveniently 'forgot' to pay for it, Streetly took it back from her and Peter Sellers gave her his model. AFAIK there were only six black models made, one of which went to John Lennon and one of which was sold to Pink Floyd and which is now in private hands. Others are 'missing'. izyrp at odn dot de wrote... > Mogul Thrash were a six-piece containing three brass/woodwind-players > (Collosseum,Blood, sweat & tears or early Chicago coming to mind) and > played mainly compositions by their guitarist James Litherland from > "Colosseum". I was once told that Mogul Thrash became The Average White Band once Wetton left. Is this true? "David Voci" wrote... > 'Night Watch' could have easily fit onto one CD if discreet editing > occurred. Really? Both CDs combined come to something just under 84 minutes. Since standard CDs are defined to a limit of 74 minutes and that players are only guaranteed to play that lengfth of CD, exactly what ten minutes would you be happy to lose from the 'Night Watch'? And, as some people may already know, it is -already edited-; the gig kicked off with 'Larks Tongues In Aspic Part 1', no recording of which has (apparently) survived. Some bootlegs appear to have it, but it's always turned out to have been spliced on from another gig. Punksatan Bobby wrote... > Yes that is Bill Bruford and he plays on 2 Pavlovs Albums, "Pampered > Menial" and "At The Sound Of The Bell". I think he only plays on the latter; Mike Safron played percussion on 'Pampered Menial'. "merella" wrote... > Concerning Mellotrons: I was browsing around a used bookstore and while > thumbing through a biography on James Joyce I found he actually used a > Mellotron to compose music for his series of poems "Chamber Music"! James Joyce died in Zurich in 1940!! Mike Dickson - Elephant Talk Administration (help at elephant-talk dot com) For subscription information post HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 11:08:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Chad Powell Subject: Re: No Self Control and the birth of Discipline Tony only played on one song on PG3. It was "I Don't Remember" (Not "No Self Control") and he played stick. John Giblin played bass on the rest of the album. I can't find my vinyl copy of the album (which has credits for each song), but I'm pretty sure Fripp didn't play on the song either. Chad >I've just been listening to No Self Control by Peter >Gabriel and it occurred >to me what an important track this is for prog and >post-prog. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 15:57:46 EDT From: Biffyshrew at aol dot com Subject: The Gouger >Cirkus/Nightwatch/Frame By Frame/Concise/Compact/Abbreviated/Young >Persons(was this the first?)/etc... > >Just an observation as it seems to me that RF keeps re-releasing the same >stuff over and over again. > >'Night Watch' could have easily fit onto one CD if discreet editing occurred. I can see your first point, at least to some extent, but that last shot is quite unfair. As I recall it, Fripp actually gave us--yes, *us*, in this very forum--the chance to voice our choice about whether we wanted _The Night Watch_ to contain as much of the concert as was available, which would necessitate a double-CD release, or to have a trimmed version that would fit on a cheap and cheerful single disc. Most of us (including my good self) favored the former option. merella wrote: >Concerning Mellotrons: I was browsing around a used bookstore and while >thumbing through a biography on James Joyce I found he actually used a >Mellotron to compose music for his series of poems "Chamber Music"! ENOUGH >ALREADY! A pretty neat trick, considering that Joyce died in 1941, before anyone outside Germany knew about recording tape... Your pal, Biffy the Elephant Shrew Join the "Live In Mexico City" Liberation Front! CD si, MS no! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 17:04:42 -0400 From: Bobster Subject: USA CD Why am I having such a difficukt time finding a copy of King Crimson USA on compact disk? This is my favorite Crimso recording and the only one I can't find. Can anyone out there help me? Wetton rules. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 23:35:07 -0400 From: "Karen Sell" Subject: question regarding rerelease Dear Sir, please help me, my non-internet-using-Crimson-fan friends are driving me crazy. Do you know when the 4 box set of the 1974 live concerts will be rereleased? Your web site says late 1999 but they seem to think it has already been released, could you please set the record straight. Thanks a lot. Karen Sell ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 12:23:11 EDT From: Hocow at aol dot com Subject: Kinder Gentler Smelotron Hey Dudes, Sorry about my tirade against mellotron posts in 613. I just felt like we had reached the six degrees saturation point. I was also feeling quite bitter about Adrian's 6 hour vacation. (I wasn't negligent in reading the diary. Ade's return was added later in the day.) I love the sound of the mellotron but you have to admit there's a lot medeival wimp rockers purveying rubbish whose only saving grace is that they can hold down 8 seconds of strings and flutes on a tron. The fact that I like the instrument does not make up for poor music being played on it. I bought and enjoyed and got tired of all this crap 20 years ago. It's why I still enjoy KC and barf when I try giving Yes one more chance. Anyway I just got tired of scrolling through it and over reacted due to the "disolution" of my favorite band. By the way, why isn't there any speculation or discussion of the new material? Fripp mentioned a few things that really got me excited. Larks IV would imply something with a nod to the past but a move away (hopefully) from rehashing Red. He also mentioned Belew adding some blues. In interviews surrounding Op Zop Too Wah Adrian said he wanted to try to get KC to dabble in blues and pointed to the cut Modern Man in a Hurricane as what he had in mind. I think this could be some interesting new ground. I was disappointed in the lack of interlocking guitars ala Frame By Frame in the Thrak cd but chalked it up to "you gotta move forward." Fripp's notes on the preliminary sessions said that the guitar duets will be back. I can't wait. Finally, as much as I will miss Bill and Tony, I think the four piece gives everybody room to move. The Trey that appears on his solo albums is nowhere to be found in the double trio. The same can be said about Pat. If all I had heard of Bill Bruford was the double trio stuff I wouldn't be all that impressed. They both had to play with one hand behind the back to make it work. I look forward to hearing what Pat can really do. Anybody else excited about the possibilities? Brad Wilmot ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 11:53:29 -0500 From: "Loren Claypool" Subject: Adrian Belew - Out & In In defense of the person who posted the Adrian is out of KC story which elicited the following - "Perhaps we should read the entire story before posting this sort of news. I was quite saddened to read ET#613 but happy after reading RF's diary." I checked the diary in the morning and read the news - Adrian was gone. I quickly hit Adrian's website - no info. I checked the diary again in the evening and Robert had made an addendum based on his conversation with Adrian - Adrian was back. The original message was accurate at the time it was posted. With the wonders of instant global communication, readers of Robert's diary may have indeed had the information before Trey, Pat, Bill, and Tony! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 14:10:51 -0400 From: "paula_nahmias" Subject: need information I'm a new ciberspace visitor and being a person who practically grew up listening KC and Fripp's absolutely marvellous and unique music I really would like to know if I will ever have a real chance of enjoying a live performance. I'm from the farthest corner of the earth, Chile , and I've had the pleasure to attend to Yes, ELP, Jethro Tull and Led Zeppelin concerts. Please, if you have any information you could share with me, or simply if you'd like to get in touch with me just to "talk" e-mail me. myrddin at ctcreuna dot cl . THANK U. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 19:45:03 -0500 From: "Chuck Bales" Subject: Re: Interview with Steve Howe of possible interest On the Steve Howe web site (www.stevehowe.com) there is the question posed to Steve concerning the relationship between Yes and King Crimson (among other bands) during the late 60s and early 70s. The test follows: Q: Thanks for the inspiration. What was the relationship like between Yes, King Crimson, Genesis and ELP in the 70's? What about now? "That's a very difficult question to answer. All I can speak for is how Yes somewhat saw the other bands. Certainly I won't deny at that time we saw them as competition, we were in certainly the same area of music and we had our own styles. But we slightly came on the back of ELP, although that's not mentioned very often, but that's what it did for me, ELP have got some groundwork in, actually with Eddie Offord, and then we came in and not took anything away from them, but we were a new attraction. We played together on a few occasions with ELP and it was usually quite combustuously fiery, there was a feeling-- today, I know, that it might have fueled by the fact that Rick, Keith, one of them, doesn't seem to appreciate the other one fully, and I'm not sure which way round it is. So at that time there was a bit of too much competition if we got together on the same stage so we saw ELP as, like King Crimson, they were there almost before us, we were almost in their jet stream a bit, but we felt very, very confident that we were making our own mark, that we didn't like to be compared to those bands. But there again the motion, the movement of music was a great thing to be part of. I think we were a little bit the same with Genesis, a little bit precious that maybe that whether they could take anything from us, whether we could take anything from them, could we get further. But maybe they were just fleeting moments. I think to be perfectly honest there was a feeling of, like in England, not ignoring other people but just you absorbed how good these bands were and you didn't pamper to that too much, you didn't sit around and listen to it all the time, because in a way you didn't want to be influenced by it, it was a concern that Yes weren't going to sound like these other bands, and be like them. "So in a way we kept out of their hearing range a little bit by just being away on our own, and I tend to think that's what all those did, Renaissance, the Gentle Giants, and all the other bands, everybody was so industrious that I don't think we held any malice, we just wanted to get to where we were getting, we didn't want anybody to get in the way, but they weren't in direct competition with us in any way at all. And, King Crimson? Well we lost Bill to King Crimson but I don't know what we can say about that, we accepted it, we met them afterwards, and everybody remained great friends. What I was talking about earlier was just a surface awareness of desire for Yes to become successful and things not get in the way, but they didn't. ELP rubbed shoulders with Yes more than anybody else but we weren't really very alike, there wasn't any a big pairing off of any numbers of them particularly, and I suppose Genesis was just a bit further away; of course I later wrote with Steve Hackett, and I met Phil Collins, and Peter Gabriel once or twice. I feel tremendous respect for them and they forged ahead with the same thing we were, we were lucky we had Atlantic, they had a label that was doing they could for them as well. It was pretty much like we were in our camp, and they were in there." Q: Have you ever played with Robert Fripp? "No." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 04:57:05 +0100 From: Steve Dinsdale-PRESENTATION Subject: Expanding Horizons After not having visited ET for a while, it was encouraging to see many posts recently about related and unrelated artists to the KC core. There's some great music out there and acting upon the recommendations of others can often uncover some wonderful new worlds. I am thinking specifically of Miles Davis...In A Silent Way and the remastered Bitches Brew...every home should have one, and for a really out there set, try Pangea and Agartha, two double CDs recorded on the same day (!) in 1975, it was as out there as Miles ever got and retired for 6 years subsequently as a result ! I'm thinking of these as they are all great examples of collective improvisation (remarkable that such a Jazz giant could subvert his ego to the larger cause). Also the Centipede album seems to be generating some healthy interest, I remastered this from a clean vinyl copy with the added benefit of a Cedar declicker. It is a wonderful album. There's a follow up large scale project by Keith Tippett called ARK (album title `Frames') whichis available on OGUN.Tippett is a true adventurer and I'm still investigating his many projects...if you like his work on Lizard etc check him out. Oh yes, (stop me if you've heard this) check out John McLaughlin `Extrapolation' from early 1969. Indisputably a major influence on the young Fripp's chordal style. One more thing....Charles Mingus ! A piece called `Haitian Fight Song' from an album called `The Clown'. (The middle of `Pictures Of a City' me thinks) and for some strangely Crimsonesqe intensity from 1963 try an album by Mingus called `Right Now' it's cheap and I think you'll love it ! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:11:02 +0700 From: T Ismail Reza Subject: Re: Pavlov's dog T> Yes that is Bill Bruford and he plays on 2 Pavlovs Albums, "Pampered T> Menial" and "At The Sound Of The Bell". Ummm mr. Brufford only plays on "At the Sound Of the Bell". The Drummer on "Pampered Menial" was the Pavlov's Dog first drummer; Mike Saffron. Actually, in the cover leaf they wrote; Mike Saffron : percussions; and there are no traces of "drummer"-title; but there are no traces of Bill Brufford also Pavlov's Dog is worth to have a good hear! They have a certain originality! ^_^ Cheers! The Schizoid One! Reza! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:44:49 -0400 From: "Brian E. Rounsavill" Subject: KC LPs for Sale I am cleaning out my old vinyl and would like to pass along my KC collection to another fan, see auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=167617056 It includes "McDonald and Giles" as well as "USA" and "Young PErson's Guide" which are pretty hard to find. Thanks, Brian *************************************************** Brian E. Rounsavill, CAE, CMP Director of Meetings, Exhibits and On-Line Services The Electrochemical Society, Inc. 10 South Main Street Pennington, NJ 08534-2896 USA Phone: (609) 737-1902 ext. 16, Fax: (609) 737-2743 E-mail: brian at electrochem dot org Web: http://www.electrochem.org/staff/brian.html *************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:07:07 -0700 From: "Scott Steele" Subject: Raw Power; Mogul Thrash; Night Watch; Bruford's next project; Yes w/orch >The final source of outtakes is from a previously unreleased recording by >a band called Believe What You Please, which featured Gunn with >percussionist Bob Muller and trumpeter Dave Douglas, the latter known for >his work in the jazz world with folks like John Zorn as well as his own >many bands. These tracks on Trey's Raw Power are stunning. Puttin' on the White Shirt really does it for me. >http://www.disconforme.ad , a small record company from Andorra Thanks for pointing this out - I have been curious about Mogul Thrash for many many years. >'Night Watch' could have easily fit onto one CD if discreet editing occurred. Yes but then we'd hear the whining sounds of the people who don't have the entire concert and want every last second of the show. >Bill Bruford and Mark Nauseef on drums and percussion, Steve Swallow on >bass, David Torn and Miroslav Tadic on acoustic and electric guitars Thanks for posting this info - this band will be a hummer! Torn, Nauseef and Tadic have made beautiful music together previously. >I'll just say this, When Yes Tured with a live Synphony Orchestra on the > "Tales From Topografic..." tour, it wasn't anywhere near the exellence > when before and after they played the same tunes with the "Tron". wha-at? Yes toured with a symphony orchestra? There was no orchestra on the Tales date that I attended. - S. scottst at ohsu dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 23:43:23 +0200 From: "Raffaele Filipponio" Subject: Stefano from Italy I would to know if it's possible that will be out a live of KC with Jamie Muir for all the poeple and not for Collectors only Could RF do a thing like that in the future ? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:28:04 -0700 From: Andy Gower Subject: CC# 5 & 6 I live in Canada and I am subscribed to the KC Collectors Club. I got the booklet in an envelope for the On Broadway release, but I never got the CDs. Has anyone else heard of this problem? Thanks for the help, Andy Gower ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:29:18 PDT From: "alexis rondeau" Subject: Collector's Club and upcomming KC tour... Hullo! -1- Well if i was in charge of the KC Collector's Club, i'd know what to do for releases to come. I'd like alternate ProjKcts. I'd like ThrakaTTak 2 for more double trio improv. Another recording with Jamie Muir (only got 2 songs so far...). Crimson's rehearsals with Jery Marotta. KC under construction with some work in progress (i thought Gentle Giant Under Construction was a clever thing to do). Most bands have lots of unreleased music in a basement somewhere but i'm not sure KC do. And i'd like music to come (such as the "calling card" that VROOOM was to Thrak). I didn't join the club right from the start so a re-print of last year's releases might do me good. I don't think i'm the only one... -2- I supose KC will tour in the near futur. With or without Bill and, or Tony, the sooner the better. Well, here is my idea: Would you like KC to tour with Upper Extremities or Earthwork?!! Would you like KC to tour with Upper Extremities or Earthwork?!! Would you like KC to tour with Upper Extremities or Earthwork?!! Can't think of a better one. Al x ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:28:19 -0600 From: "Steven Sthole" Subject: The Fragg Diaries Elephant Persons: I have been given permission from the kind (yet enigmatic) Bill Kent to create a webplace for the diaries of our favorite "foaming, bilious guitarist", Mr. Norbert Fragg. The Fragg diaries can be seen, in all their mind-numbing glory, at http://home.rmi.net/~sws/fraggs/diary.htm in a format that some might find recognizable ;-) Bill and I have bandied about ideas for the Future of Norbert on the Web, so I can say now that this is "only the beginning": more lampooing, verbal harpooning and HTML festooning is in the works. Perhaps even a real kvetchbook, er I mean guestbook. Regards, -sws * Steven W. Sthole * COIN Y2K * Colorado Department of Human Services * Steven dot Sthole at state dot co dot us * home : sws at rmi dot net ************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:40:35 PDT From: "don hosek" Subject: Mid-70s KC live OK, I'm persuaded: I think the mid-70s KC (Fripp-Wetton-Bruford-[Cross-Muir]) is the best of the line-ups. Red is playing on the headphones right now and leaving me absolutely astonished... such great music. So the question is, given the seemingly unending stream of live KC releases, what do I want to get to hear this line-up live? The possibilities: -USA -Great Deceiver (wait for re-release on each of these last two?) -The Night Watch -The Beat Club, Bremen (available at all?) Any thoughts? -dh --- "You're not a cyberwarrior and you're not surfing the web. You're a loner and you're typing." -Bill Maher ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:15:35 +0200 From: "Christian Skina" Subject: a KC-CC related chat A short while ago I was sending to ET a short "innocent" question: any Soundscape release by the CC? Several core ETers have answered me personally and I can draw some conclusions. Before I tell you about these conclusions, I must make a couple of things clear: 1) I do not have the time to read other postings of the ET. Matter of priorities of course; I use ET as a source of practical information: when and where something is being released or someone is playing a gig. It's possible that what I am going to say is deja vu for the list. That would be the case, my excuses! 2) The so called conclusions are only based on a small number of emails I have received and personal thoughts. This is what I have to say (finally) some ETers are sad that no "Fripp guitar stuff" looks like being released soon (or ever) by DGM CC. Everyone saw the new KC added to CC as a farewell to any chance of hearing bootleg Soundscapes. Some ETers thought that the CC is a sort of democracy, where those forms send by DGM with "which releases would you be interested to buy" would actually influence the releases. Maybe they do/did but some cannot believe that there is so little interest in the guitar craft of the aforementioned Gentleman. There. I do have one thing to add: I always considered Mr Fripp as a catalyst for the other K'rimsons. In the days he was recording Let the Power Fall, I thought of him (and his music) as a fractal Crimson (though I did not use in my head these terms). If the CC drifted to KC CC, those Soundscape days (and the present ones) could be theoretically considered as the smallest Crimson Fractal/ preProject/ whatever pleases you to call it. So, in "legal" terms, there is always possible for the KC CC to release a nice Soundscape evening. I've attended all 4 Jaz Cafe evenings. No further comment, it's been here certainly praised the experience of those evenings. A couple of days later (as my memory allows me to remember) Mr Fripp was Soundscaping in a church in the South of England. I had a place reserved but just couldn't make it (what a shame, my pocket was bloody empty, I was jaded after paying myself a 5 years University thing). So, when the CC came up, I hoped, etc. I myself wonder about the tone of this posting: is it whining about lost hopes, is it trying to tell DGM something? I will certainly not suggest bootleggers should restart their work. With one exception, I have never bought a boot. That exception is a breath taking concert Sylvian-Fripp-Gunn which I hope someday will make the object of a KCCC release, for others to enjoy. Good luck everyone! Chris ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 06:35:39 EDT From: Belewp at cs dot com Subject: Belew Fripp likes to move forward and to only look back for nastalgia sake. When Bill left, he didn't make a fuss ,hey he still had Pat. When Tony left it made room for Trey to actually be heard for the first time. Then something terrible happenened......Belew is having doubts about the next Crimson album!!!!!! The world stopped for fripp while he pondered how impossible it would be to go on without Belew. Sure he could phone Sylvian but David could never fill in the void Belew would have left. See , the Fripp and Belew guitar relationship is the integral balancing act that gives Krimson the life affirming luster that Krimson lacked before Belew stepped into the Fractured Court of the Island Lizard. A balancing act that I think was summed up on the OpZop to Wah song "Guitar on a high wire". Don't get me wrong, I loved 90% of what Crimson did before 1981 (The missing 10% being John Wetton's vocals{I realise ET'ers that's not an accurate figure so go figure }) But Belew became the equal Fripp lacked after McDonald, Giles,Lake and Sienfield Left. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:35:25 -0500 From: Chris Van Valen Subject: New NIN album Hi EYMs & Ws On the new Nine Inch Nails album, "The Fragile", stunt guitar boy Ade plays on three tracks, billed as "additional guitars" on the track, "Just Like You Imagined" and as "end melodic guitar" on "The Great Below" and "Where Is Everybody?". In addition, Bill Rieflin drums on one track, "La Mer". over 'n out, cv If you have an unpleasant nature and dislike people this is no obstacle to work. - J.G. Bennett And it's potato, potato, potato. - Mike Keneally ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 17:17:52 +0100 From: Iain Robertson Subject: ProjeKct One Track Naming Hi, Anyone know if 2 ii 3 means "December 2nd, 2nd set, 3rd piece", or "2nd piece in the 2nd set on December 3rd"? My initial assumption was the former, but having been their on the 2nd, and having recognized 3 i 2 and 3 ii 2, but not 2 ii 3 or 2 ii 4, I'm more inclined to think the latter is correct. Anyone know for sure? -- * ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Iain Robertson (mailto:i-robertson at ti dot com) MOS Design, Texas Instruments, Northampton, UK Phone: 3412; Fax: 3456; Prefix: +44 1604 66 (Speed: +8 447) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 21:12:08 +0100 From: Russell Whitworth Subject: Goodbye Adrian; Hello Adrian! Well done Robert and Adrian on coming to a resolution that continues Adrian's involvement in Crimson. This parallels a recent situation that I had with my own employer, in which I was quite prepared to compromise an excellent career in order to devote more time to my family... but fortunately through discussion we were able to find a solution that met both objectives. It is great to have an understanding "boss"! Of course, it is sad that this reduces the opportunity for us fans to see Crimson performing, but I am pleased for Adrian that he has set the right priorities. Last year I had a chance encounter with another Crimson member, and in the course of conversation we compared lifestyles. His comment was that in the early days of his career, spending large amounts of time away from home was somewhat unique to the musician's way of life. However, increasingly he has noticed that business folk (such as myself) are under much the same pressures to spend a lot of time away from our families. One of the sadder aspects of modern life. Returning to Adrian - I was surprised to note on his website that he still reads ET. I had interpreted his excellent response a couple of years ago to the continued criticism here as being a parting shot; but evidently he is still with us. Of course, we all know that Robert reads it all - and that Bill doesn't. But I don't know whether Trey, Pat and Tony are still with us. Regardless - it seems to me that if members of Crimson are going to read this stuff, they should be prepared to roll with the punches, and not to take it personally! The intended audience of this forum is, I believe, other fans. I'm delighted for Fripp & friends to read my words here - but surely they choose to do so at their own risk! If at times the comments are unkind, cruel and misinformed, then so be it. They are balanced by the comments that are kind, complimentary, and equally misinformed. I find this a useful distinction between ET and the DGM visitors' book. When I post to DGM, I *expect* Robert to take an interest. When I post to ET, I do not. Oh dear - I've used the words "expect", and "Robert" in the same sentence! I'm bound to get taken to task for that one :-) -- Russell Whitworth Home page: http://www.anchorag.demon.co.uk/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 08:37:33 +0200 From: "Christian Skina" Subject: projekct 2 live question Dear ETers Who can tell me something about the Projekct 2 live Japanese double cd? Or, is there any url with information about it? Thanks Chris ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:10:30 +0100 From: nigel proctor Subject: Proj 4 / KC Collectors Club 8 Just received 'The Roar of 4', Collectors Club 7, in which it states that Club release 8 will be........The VROOOM sessions 1994! Studio stuff at last. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 14:46:28 +0100 From: Matthew Nolan Subject: Review: ProjeKCts box set The King is alive and well! I received my pre-order box set last Saturday morning - what a pleasant surprise! That meant that I didn't get as many of my planned chores done as I should have, but never mind... Anyway, I've now had a week do listen and digest, and so here's what I think: P1 - aah, the Bruford Levin rhythm section. It's almost as if they have a telepathic link. Some excellent leads over the top from Gunn, and Fripp, but mainly soundscapes / soundscape based stuff from the latter. It really seems to work well in this context, especially for the more ethereal tracks. For some reason I am finding the even numbered tracks most appealing. P2 - hmm, better than Space Groove, but I'm still not entirely convinced. I think it is the obtuseness of Belew's drumming (don't get me wrong, I love his drumming on Op Zop Too Wah for example). Or maybe it is lacking a "proper" bassline in many tracks. Track 7 is a favourite though. P3 - Mastelotto!!! This man is incredible. Expanded V-drums with other pads and percussion sound modules, triggered samples and loops. I would have loved to have seen the live set in action. Fripp and Gunn fit over the top of this rhythmic hotbed very nicely. Especially, to my mind, on tracks 3 and pretty much everything from 5 onwards. Some good big demonic breaking-up distorted rumbles here and there too. I must buy a sub-woofer.... P4 - Pat M in fine form again, this time leaning further from "industrial rock" towards "drum and bass" or "jungle". And the very welcome addition of Tony Levin filling in the bottom end and doing some great raucous stuff with overdriven bowed Steinberger. I think P4 is my favourite of the box. I have spent a couple of nights listening to it on headphones before going to sleep (although I wouldn't advise this as, the second night - albeit long after removing my headphones - I awoke covered in sweat with my jaw locked at the right hand side!! what's that all about??) Dislocations aside, a fine collection of group improvisations. The finest racket you will hear for a good long while. Regards, Matt Nolan. =================================================================== --Day Job: VLSI Design Engineer--Oak Technology Ltd.--Bristol--UK-- --Evenings and Weekends: Sound Engineer--Producer---Teeth Records-- --Drummer--The Rob Beadle Triangle Band-- http://www.rbtb.co.uk/ -- =================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 06:23:49 +0100 From: "Barrie Sillars" Subject: What a Week! - ProjeKct's Box, ITCCC Remaster & Club No.7 What a week it has been for KC related releases. On Tuesday, the ProjeKcts Box arrived. Thursday I got the remastered ITCCC. To top it all, today waiting for me was the ProjeKct 4 live Club No.7 release. It is going to be a busy weekend. The Club 7 release looks to be quite different to the ProjecKt 4 CD in the box set, as only two tracks seem to be from that. According to the booklet, Club 8 will be "King Crimson - The VROOOM Sessions, 1994". Enjoy! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 05:29:10 +0800 From: "John & Sharon" Subject: The Great Deceiver I just received "Cirkus"yesterday & find to my surprise that "Starless" from TGD has been remastered. It's louder, the high frequency noise in the right channel is a little louder (unfortunately), & the bass & treble have been elevated somewhat. Overall it does sound good. If RF is going to use the remastered versions, one of the best live albums just got better. I ordered Cirkus from CD Now & got a copy "made in the EU" Don't Caroline press their own anymore? yours John Buchanan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 14:26:58 -0400 From: Peggs Subject: not necessarily local ET'ers I'm looking to converse with fellow Crimheads either internet or snail mail about anything Crim. I'm in the Detroit area, but anybody, anywhere is cool. I've been into the Red Beast since the mid 80's, but not real "serious" until, well, I guess you always have to be seriously into Crimson if you're into them at all. So, here I sit... Greg gcpeggstuff at usa dot net P.S. I've tried a few "local ET'ers", but never got a reply. Are you out there? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 21:33:58 -0400 From: tj Subject: The New Rules Although DGM has yet to post the new KCCC rules they have replied to a few of us about them. DGM apparently plans to retract there kindness in allowing KCCC members to apply any remaining funds towards other non-KCCC product. DGM USA said this and Dan the DGM webmaster confirmed it. Some of us joined KCCC with the former rules in mind so now we are nothing but short metal object drilled into wooden planks (screwed) on that concept. Alas it FEELS dishonest to me. It's apparently an accounting nightmare. I say get a BETTER accountant. This is still on dgm...com: "XIII Q. Can Club members use their deposit to buy from the general DGM mail order catalogue? A. Yes, as mentioned above. However, orders from the general catalogue will need to made separately from Club orders. This is to simplify the practicalities of running the Club." sadly, tj dc-et2 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 11:05:54 -0400 From: moses Subject: Youth and KC Hello, folks! Just an interesting note that you all might appreciate. I was driving some Boy Scouts(I'm a leader) halfway across the state on the way to a campout. Since Pennsylvania is somewhat large, it was a four hour drive. Not content to simply listen to the kids chat about Pokemon and Magic: The Gathering, I put in some music to make the ride go quicker. One of the tapes was a compilation I made of my favorite Crimson songs, from various albums. They seemed to tolerate most of it, and actually enjoyed some of it. They especially liked 'Mother Hold the Candle Steady While I Shave the Chicken's Lip' from Thrakattack, which surprised me. They described it as 'nightmare music.' On the way home, two of them were sleeping and the other patiently waited through some Medeski, Martin, and Wood. When it was finished, he asked for the King Crimson tape again. Not one to discourage a youth from possibly becoming a Crimhead(Is that the term we decided on?), I put it in the player. He listened intently to the music and my abbreviated history of the band, and somewhere about 45 minutes into the tape (during LTIA II), he said, "You can tell this band because of the way they use scales." I thought about that, and he's right. It totally floored me that a 14 year old (who's studying the drums!) could pick up on that. He especially liked the double trio incarnation, because of the two drummers. Now he's looking for a copy of Thrakattack. He's not getting mine, though. Later, Moses moses at tmbg dot org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 17:30:21 +0100 From: Roderich von Detten Subject: Krimson 1982 (?) live "Aus dem Alabama" good evening hippies, yesterday to my great disappointment my vcr failed to record the broadcast of a krimson-concert in germany from 1982 (i guess) on 0.15 a.m. on german "Bayerischer Rundfunk" -TV-channel (so it was today, to be precise: 27/09/99). the title of the broadcast was "Live aus dem Alabama" ("live from the Alabama") - and my question is: does anybody out there know something about the concrete date and venue of this gig? the second question goes out to my fellow german ET-contributors/-readers - and i take the liberty of asking the question in german: gibt es irgendjemanden unter euch, der nicht wie ich das pech hatte, diesen konzertmitschnitt zu versaumen, sondern der einen video-mitschnitt anfertigen konnte? ich waere sehr an einer kopie interessiert - und wuerde mich dementsprechend ueber eine antwort freuen! (zu aergerlich: die ersten drei minuten ("waiting man") hat meine video-kiste aufgenommen, ab dann war leider schluss.) greetings roderich ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 15:39:43 +0100 From: Philippe BOINEAU Subject: Live In Mexico I've downloaded the 'Live at Mexico', but I'm not sure of the setlist : 1-Dinausor 2-One Time 3-Vroom Vroom ??? 4-????? 5-Coda:Marine 475 6-Sex Sleep Eat Drink 7-????? 8-????? 9-????? 10-21 st Century ... 11-?????(drum solo) 12-????? Is these title has been played in one concert or several ? P. Boineau ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 19:09:39 -0500 From: Eric Olsson Subject: Mexico City for Mac I've come up with a procedure for downloading Mexcico City on a Mac equipped with Virtual PC, and then transferring it to a Mac-ready format. (You can play it back with VPC as well but the sound may be poor.) Contact me privately for instructions - I'd like to get an idea how many Mac users are out there who have to go through this nonsense to hear the concert. Also please drop me a line if you've already gotten the concert onto a Mac yourself, or if you don't have access to Virtual PC. I'd like to tally the number of Mac users and forward it to DGM and the appropriate parties at Microsoft. Regards, Eric Olsson *********** Eric Olsson mailto:eric at olsson dot com (214) 303-1968 ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #615 ********************************