Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #613 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 613 Monday, 13 September 1999 Today's Topics: Before *and* after Bill, he was "William" Announcement: Toronto Stick Seminar, November 27/28 1999 Economics, Fripp, and Aristotle Mellotrons Smellotrons Cale and Young; Fripp's Diary (Double Duo is off) Yet more Mellotron users DGM pricing Bruford interview mexico city .wma to .wav - need help Live a Mexico. How to listen to Live in Mexico City (a review) Mexico On CD Mexico City ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.5b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:10:33 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time) From: TIMOTHY A EDWARDS Subject: Before *and* after Bill, he was "William" Saw something that I've never seen (or heard) before... Group: Pavlov's Dog Label: Columbia PC 33964 1976 Special Guests: William Bruford - drums -and- Group: Kokomo Label: Columbia PC 33442 1975 Mel Collins - saxes and flute Just some information for the completists, if it is not already known. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 09:18:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Kev Subject: Announcement: Toronto Stick Seminar, November 27/28 1999 Kevin Muir presents the 1ST ANNUAL TORONTO CHAPMAN STICK SEMINAR On this, the 25th anniversary of production of the Chapman Stick, we are pleased to hold the first event of this kind in Toronto, Ontario Canada, on NOVEMBER 27th and 28th, 1999. The seminar will be held at the ROYAL CONSERVATORY OF MUSIC, 273 Bloor Street West in downtown Toronto. Saturday's session is from 1:30pm until 6:00pm. Sunday's session will run from 10:00am until 6:00pm. Instructors for this tapping weekend will be GREG HOWARD from the U.S. and FERGUS MARSH from Canada. There will be a PUBLIC CONCERT on Saturday evening featuring Greg and Fergus, and a smaller gathering on Sunday after the seminar at which seminar attenders are encouraged to perform. *BONUS SETUP SEMINAR!!* will be held on the evening of Friday, November 26th. Greg will work with you to set up your Stick for optimum playability! Details TBA. PLAYERS OF ALL LEVELS AND MUSICAL INFLUENCES ARE WELCOME! GREG HOWARD is one of the world's foremost tappers - performing, composing and teaching on The Chapman Stick. To date he has released six CDs and a live concert video. His touring and teaching around North America and Europe have given Greg a unique insight into the instrument and method. He has brought his talent to groups as diverse as the pop music giant Dave Mathews Band and his improvisational groove poetry trio, Code Magenta. He is also the author of a comprehensive method called "The Stick Book, Volume One" published in 1997. Greg will teach a variety of subjects in a hands-on setting, including: independence training warmups right hand scales, modes and improvisation bass motors two-handed bass FERGUS MARSH is a resident of Toronto and a renowned Stickist. He played in Bruce Cockburn's band on several albums and tours in the 1980's, was a member of the band Big Faith and is a sideman and recording musician on countless CD's and live projects. He will be discussing the function of the Stickist as a sideman in a band setting. THE ROYAL CONSERVATORY OF MUSIC, founded in 1886, has a long tradition of excellence in musical training -- placing it among the great music schools of the world. We are pleased that this first annual event will be held at an institution so rich in tradition. TUITION for two days of instruction is $200 Cdn ($160 US) if you register before November 1st, $230 Cdn ($180 US) after that. Tuition does not include lodging or food. Payment in cheque or money order should be made out to Kevin Muir and mailed to: Kevin Muir 51 Water Street Stratford, Ontario CANADA N5A 3B9 LODGINGS in the area are too numerous to list in their entirety. Here are a couple in the area: (all prices in Canadian funds) Quality Inn: 280 Bloor St. West (5 minute walk to the seminar!) single: $135 + tax double: $150 + tax 1-800-228-5151 Venture Inn: 89 Avenue Road (Avenue Rd at Bloor St. - 5 minutes walk) single: $129 + tax double: $139 + tax 1-800-387-3933 The Downtown Toronto Association of Bed and Breakfast and Guest Houses (416) 977-6841 can make suggestions and reservations for you at a member B&B or guest House. Rates range from $60-$85/night. Further inquiries about the seminar should be directed to Kevin Muir at the above address, by telephone at (519) 273-7376 fax at (519)273-4092 or by email to: kmuir at golden dot net Enrollment space is limited, so register now! This is a great opportunity to get together and meet other tappers and learn about the continuing evolution of Emmett Chapman's unique instrument and technique. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 13:43:27 -0500 (CDT) From: flaherty michael w Subject: Economics, Fripp, and Aristotle In the recent DGM newsletter, it was announced that material available from DGM Live will eventually be made available from "a third party." Thank you. As this may calm matters a bit (I noticed everyone who thought that everything was "just fine" had access to the music), I would like, with the help of Aristotle, to make a few points: Appeal to Ethos: When I joined the teaching profession, I was aware that I was embarking on a career that is not valued by Western society, and am not surprised by my income level, nor the restraints that level puts on my lifestyle. Besides, it's not as if I ever have to wonder where my next meal is coming from. Appeal to Logic: This means there are certain things I cannot have, but also certain things I can have, and, again this is accepted. For example: 1. When I play a new Fripp cd (which I can afford) on my cheap stereo (which is all I can afford) it will not sound as "good" as the cd that audiophiles play on their expensive equipment. And I don't care. 2. I could, I suppose, AFFORD a DVD player, but I cannot justify the cost for my purposes, and so I do not own the fancy KC DVD. But my little VCR will still play the VHS version, so it doesn't matter: I have a copy that's good enough. 3. If I want the new David Bowie cd, I will have to wait two weeks longer than someone who has technology that is so far out of my price range that I can't even afford to look at it will, but so what? Two weeks is a short span of time. Appeal to Pathos: I don't really care about Mexico City, Broadway is fine for now (see, I CAN afford the club), but I would like an opprtunity to purchase releases I do care about, and therefore thank DGM for making them available--eventually. Sorry for the unusually long (for me) post, Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 14:49:11 EDT From: Hocow at aol dot com Subject: Mellotrons Smellotrons Enough already. Who gives a rat's ass that some obscure half assed KC or Yes or Genesis imitator that didn't cut it used a mellotron on their mediocre art rock debut that deservedly languished in obscurity? It's the music not the instrument. The mellotron was an integral part of early KC but it was the music that was magical. The contrast of the orchaestral passages with demonic bebop made Crim a whole different animal from their peers. The band moves farther away from these roots and we twitter on and on about where else to find six bars of mellotron. Ex member, Belew (bummer, check out RF's new diary) did just fine with the guitar synth strings. It's essentially the same sound whatever you generate it on. Lets move on to slashing our wrists over the disolution of the double duo. I was really looking forward to Larks IV and Crim Blues and re exploring those little guitar duets. Dammit, Adrian, say it isn't so. Gotta Get My Medication, Brad Wilmot ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 13:50:55 -0500 (CDT) From: flaherty michael w Subject: Cale and Young; Fripp's Diary (Double Duo is off) 1. The work John Cale has done with Lamont Young has not been released because Young has demanded that Cale and Tony Conrad sign papers giving him sole writing credit for what were group improvs. Cale and Conrad have (rightfully, in my opinion) refused, and so the music goes unreleased. Reports have it that Young has also put himself up and Cale and Conrad down in the mixes. 2. In his diary, Robert Fripp has announced that Adrian Belew will not be rejoining KC. For details, see the diary, which is particularly interesting at the moment: as Fripp remixes the KC catalog, he is giving some commentary on the releases ("Lizard" gets some particularly harsh words). Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 20:09:07 -0400 From: bozmn at intercom dot net Subject: Yet more Mellotron users I apologize if this has been mentioned already and I hadn't noticed it: The 80's group XTC used (and still uses) a Mellotron on their albums. Their '83 album "Mummer", I think, was the first of their albums to feature a Mellotron. Also, (oh, now this is a classic) Bob Seger's keyboardist played a 'tron on "Turn the Page". Cole ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 16:34:12 +0100 From: "Ronald Chrisley" Subject: DGM pricing The following has been sent to the DGM gusetbook. Comments? [ "gusetbook"? Is this a new DGM initiative to discuss the fabrication of New Age underwear? I think we should be told -- Toby ] Dear Robert/DGM, (Forgive me if this has been discussed here before. If it has, please refer me to the date of the relevant entry -- I can't figure aout a way to search past entries in the guestbook.) I'd like to know the basis on which DGM price their items. In particular, I'd like an explanation of the pricing difference for membership in the KCCC, which is #78 = $126 for UK members, and $90 for American members. The explanation DGM give is that a CD "costs" #13 (= $21) in the UK, while it only "costs" $15 in the US, so the 6 CDs of the KCCC yields 6x#13=#78 for the UK and 6x$15=90 for the US. What I would like to know is how these "costs" were computed. Are they based on an actual difference of costs to DGM in the US and UK, or are they merely exploiting the UK music industry's price fixing scheme, which is unfair, and which has been the subject of several governmental investigations? I'm trying to see how it could be the former. Certainly, there is an extra cost in the UK in VAT, which is 17.5%. But this should only raise the UK CD price to $17.63, not $21. What explains the extra mark-up of nearly 20%? Suppose the most generous (to DGM) case, that the KCCC CDs are manufactured in the USA, and must be shipped to the UK. Would this really incur an extra $3.37 per CD? They could be sent individually by airmail for that price! And aren't internal shipping costs in the UK cheaper than internal shipping costs in the US? Is it that you pay your UK staff a higher wage, so this must be offset by higher price? DGM, please explain what I am missing, if anything. I'm obviusly not a businessman, so I quite quickly concede that there may be issues here which I am misrepresenting or ignoring. Please correct me. If instead you *have* based your prices on an unfair and industry-set "going rate", do you acknowledge that this means that you are making a much higher profit margin on items sold to UK members? Would you consider changing your pricing scheme to rectify this? If so, when? If not, why not? Could you apply your answers to the specific cases of KCCC membership, and the new Projekct Box, which you are selling to US customers for $40, but to UK customers for #40 = $64.60, which *even taking into VAT into account*, is a markup of nearly 38%? To be honest, I had intended to raise these questions before, but was afraid I might be prohibited from joining the KCCC because of doing so. Please do not refuse me membership because of this sincere attempt to discover the truth. Much discussion of CD price-fixing in the UK is done in the abstract, ignorant of particular details. Here's a chance to see the *actual reasons* why CDs in the UK cost more than US price + VAT. Thanks, Ron Chrisley ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 16:50:13 -0400 From: Chelsea Snelgrove Subject: Bruford interview Greetings All: FYI: There's a 4-page interview with Bill Bruford (along with a review of an Adrian Belew show in Boston) in the latest AMPLIFIER magazine (Vol. 4, No. 4). Bruford talks some about Fripp/Crimson, as well as Yes and Earthworks. Cheers, Chelsea Snelgrove ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:10:15 -0700 From: "Joel Campbell Knisley" Subject: mexico city I have read more than enough posts regarding the mexico city download. I've heard the show, loved it. Can we move on, please? Thanks. -joelk at eudoramail dot com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:11:18 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time) From: TIMOTHY A EDWARDS Subject: .wma to .wav - need help .wma to .wav - need help Anyone? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 12:16:44 +0200 From: Pascal Sauvaget Subject: Live a Mexico. Bonjour, this is a message for the french reading ETers! J'ai telecharge le live de KC en wma, et voulu le convertir en fichier wav pour le graver ensuite. Mais le logiciel utilise pour cette conversion (winamp) donne un son pourri (on dirait que ca tremble la-dedans!). Je desespere completement de l'ecouter tranquillement a la maison sur ma platine. L'un de vous aurait-il reussi cette delicate operation? Je serais preneur pour un cdr. si vous etes ok, envoyez-moi un message, avec le prix du CDr et de l'affranchissement. D'avance, merci beaucoup Pascal pascal dot sauvaget at ac-rennes dot fr ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:02:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Warren Melnick Subject: How to listen to Live in Mexico City (a review) This is getting to be a major pain so I thought that perhaps having everything in one place might help. How to listen on your PC: It is in WMA form so you will need to have the Microsoft Media Player to listen to it. This means having a Windows 95/98/NT/2000 machine or a Mac running Virtual PC (or similar). How to listen on a CD: A few steps here actually to do it right. You should own a CD burner and a copy of SoundForge (or similar). You also need WinAmp 2.24. Just a quick not here: If you are doing this to sell copies and make money that is not yours I hope you burn in hell. That said... Get WinAmp at ftp://ftp.winamp.com/pub/winamp/winamp224_full.exe and install it. Change the output plugin to DiskWriter and "play" the concert to a WAV file. Something weird happens here because the output file is MUCH bigger than it should be for 16 but stereo. Open up SoundForge and cut the WAV file into tracks for burning (either make a bunch of WAV files for an external burning program or if you have CD Architect then just make regions to be turned into tracks. Here is a list of where to cut the tracks, even if the song list is slightly off: title begins at length Dinosaur 00:00:00 7:25 One Time 07:25:50 6:02 VROOOM VROOOM 13:27:25 4:49 Soundscape 18:16:00 6:25 B'Boom 24:41:15 3:36 Thrak 28:17:25 1:49 Sex... 30:06:50 4:56 The Talking Drum 35:02:50 3:59 Larks II 39:03:10 6:15 Neurotica 45:18:37 4:34 21st Century 49:52:50 6:31 Prism 56:23:25 4:32 Red 60:55:68 6:27 Note that saving this file (or these files added together) makes a file of just over 600 meg in size, not over 700 meg like the original WAV file was. Anyone know what the rest of the space is for? Now burn your CD and make covers. Covers for this CD made by a fan are at: http://www.your-music.com/kc1.jpg and http://www.your-music.com/kc2.jpg (good job Darren - I see you took the picture from the Web site like I did when I made my own cover) Need a cover-making program? There is a good one at: http://www.isonews.com/files/cdrlab41.zip This is for PC only as well (sorry but I only use Windoze and Linux). :-) Warren Melnick warren at walrus dot com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 21:35:04 -0500 From: Paul Hubers Subject: Mexico On CD I know I'm not the first and I'm sure I wont be the last but can someone burn me a CD of the Mexico download? I'd like to be able to listen to it on my home stereo. We'll work out some kind of deal. Thanks -PH ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 09:48:03 -0500 From: "Rick Tvedt" Subject: Mexico City I have tried all the fixes reccomended. I have downloaded Winamp Complete. I still get an object moved here window after entering my Email address. When I click on the link I get an HTTP 404 error. Can somebody please help me? ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #613 ********************************