Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #612 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 612 Friday, 10 September 1999 Today's Topics: NEWS: PJ Crook - Exhibition (OFF TOPIC) Mellotron and Theremin Re: Singing Drums of Favre Mellotron again new KC japanese releases Giles / Muir CD Another record with mellotron Unrelated KC concert alert The casting of Norbert Fragg Crimson suspenders! jamie muir Hm.. Re: Theremins Re: Django Re: Eno's Videos Re: Chamberlains MacDonald and '70s Crimson Toyah Wilcox In New Movie Jamie Muir Recordings john wetton cd Exiles tab SACRED SONGS Boz on VH1 The_neverending_Mellotronian's_List Jamie Muir-crimson material available? Crimson and Miles Cale Influence Crimson Monkeys? Eric Tamms Book Identities; Cale/Reily;Eno Video Re:Jamie Muir art and other recording? Macs 'N' Mex. how to..... Old winamp / new winamp? Re King Crimson live in Mexico Mexico City ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.5b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 11:42:10 +0100 (WET DST) From: Stephane Alexandre Subject: NEWS: PJ Crook - Exhibition Dear Elephant-Talkers, PJ CROOK, the painter of the last King Crimson CDs' covers, is exhibiting at Galerie Alain Blondel in Paris. The exhibition starts on thursday the 9th of September and ends on saturday the 30th of October 1999. The address is (close to forum des halles and centre George Pompidou) Galerie Alain Blondel, 4 rue Aubry le Boucher, 75004 PARIS (FRANCE) metro : Chatelet-Les Halles ou Rambuteau The opening hours are : Tuesday to friday - 11h to 13 h and 14h to 19h. Saturday - 14 h a 19h. A +, Stephane. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ElEphAnt wAlk - un site dedie a - KiNG CRiMSoN http://www.multimania.com/as33/Elephant-Walk-fr.htm par Stephane ALEXANDRE : as33 at multimania dot com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 16:58:13 +0100 From: Matthew Nolan Subject: (OFF TOPIC) Mellotron and Theremin Shameless plug! My band uses Mellotron samples here and there and we have also faked a Theremin using an analogue filter module feeding back on itself. We also have a bit of a thing for odd time signatures and are quite heavy on guitars. Our bass player has some TLev Funk Fingers although has not used them in anger on a recording yet. I play VDrums. You can find out all about us at http://www.rbtb.co.uk/ and hear some songs on line at http://www.mp3.com/rbtb/ We have a CD EP coming out in 2-3 weeks time. Regards, Matt Nolan. =================================================================== --Day Job: VLSI Design Engineer--Oak Technology Ltd.--Bristol--UK-- --Evenings and Weekends: Sound Engineer--Producer---Teeth Records-- --Drummer--The Rob Beadle Triangle Band-- http://www.rbtb.co.uk/ -- =================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 17:08:39 +0100 From: Matthew Nolan Subject: Re: Singing Drums of Favre > Would some ET'er with "eclectic" listening habits > perhaps provide us with a review of Prism's source: Pierre Favre > Ensemble's Singing Drums? Is it rewarding / intriguing listening for > non-drummers? Sadly, I am a drummer so can't speak for non-drummers. But I do own the Singing Drums album. Personally, I prefer the Bruford / Mastelotto / Belew rendition than the original Ensemble - it has more edge. The whole Singing Drums album is actually rather mellow. Not the kind of thing you'd perhaps expect from a percussion ensemble. It could well be rewarding listening for non-drummers, depends upon your tastes. I'm sorry that doesn't really help much. Perhaps there are downloadable clips somewhere (not on CDNOW, I've just had a look)? Regards, Matt Nolan. =================================================================== --Day Job: VLSI Design Engineer--Oak Technology Ltd.--Bristol--UK-- --Evenings and Weekends: Sound Engineer--Producer---Teeth Records-- --Drummer--The Rob Beadle Triangle Band-- http://www.rbtb.co.uk/ -- =================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 16:10:19 GMT From: et at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk (Elephant Talk) Subject: Mellotron again SYNCHRO, RONALD VOGEL wrote... > In 1972 the Moody Blues bought a "Chamberlain" which was an enhanced > mellotron and had some of the tunning problems already fixed. It was used in > their "Seventh Sojourn" album. David Bowie also mentioned using it in "Low". > I was wondering. KC was out so of money in 73/74 that they could not afford > buying one? Or they simply decided that the mellotrons they had were > actually more than enough for the role they played? The Chamberlin (note the spelling) was the American predecessor to the Mellotron and had a huge number of shortcomings, mostly associated with its internal build design. The Mellotron, believe it or not, was a substantial improvement over this original design. On a KC-related note, it may be of interest to some readers to learn that the famous 'Mellotron string' sound is a recording that Harry Chamberlin made of three session violinists playing in his daughter's bedroom in 1951. Mike Dickson - Elephant Talk Administration (help at elephant-talk dot com) For subscription information post HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 15:15:35 +0200 From: Michel Seigneuret Subject: new KC japanese releases Hi, These are both informations and questions: I recently spotted in some megastores in Paris (France, not Texas) several KC or related japanese imports made by Poly Canyon. 1)A box set containing the three first DGM collectors club releases (Marquee, Jacksonville, Bremen). Apparently some parts of the initial Marquee release have been edited out (e.g. Epitaph), This may represent an alternate way for getting these releases. 2)Two Projekct live CD's: "Live Groove" by Projekct Two "Live at the Jazz Cafe" by Projekct One Since these two are not documented in the ET releases section, I would appreciate any information/appreciation on these. Thanks. Michel ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 08:08:14 +1000 From: "Mirva & Gye Bennetts" Subject: Giles / Muir CD Dear ETers, I just found this information for another ET reader and though I would post it again. The Michael Giles / Jamie Muir CD is called Ghost Dance on Piano Records, Cat No. ( Piano501) Credit Card Hotline USA - (+1) 800 567 9185 UK (+ 44) 191 512 1109 Gye Bennetts Sydney, Australia ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 12:24:08 PDT From: "douglas miller" Subject: Another record with mellotron Hi all, There seems to be an ongoing discussion of other bands who used the mellotron in the 60's and 70's other than Crimson. I've seen many bands listed, but don't recall seeing Jethro Tull listed. I didn't realize they used mellotron until today. I was listening to the Aqualung record and noticed a string sound in the background and didn't recall seeing any strings credits and noticed John Evan, the keybroadist, was credited with mellotron playing. I don't maybe no one cares, but people seem to have been interested into this lately, so I hope no one already mentioned. So bye for now. Douglas Miller ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 15:22:17 -0400 From: pete Subject: Unrelated KC concert alert This concert alert is unrelated to KC - sorry. But, I saw godspeed you black emperor! twice over the Labor Day weekend. Anyone in the US is urged to go see them. For the uninitiated, gybe are a nine (or more) piece collective from Montreal playing brooding, swirlling instrumental pieces. They are reminiscent of the Dirty Three, Rachel's and the Kronos Quartet - only better. I caught them in Philadelphia supporting the superb Mogwai and in DC supporting LaBradford. More than half of the audience left the DC gig before LaBraford came on. Gives you an idea of the buzz surrounding gybe. Go see 'em! I'm confident KC fans will not be disappointed - this long time fan was not. Gig list and a sound sample from the new EP at http://www.southern.com/southern/band/GDSPD/ also check out http://www.total.net/~constell/html/godspeed.html and www.gybe.cx Once again apologies for cluttering up the KC newlsetter on unrelated matter. Pete McClymont pjmcclym at erols dot com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 14:23:58 EDT From: Bknt at aol dot com Subject: The casting of Norbert Fragg Dear Team, Can it be? Is our foaming, bilious guitarist contemplating the next step in mass culture success? Recent diary entries about mixed metaphors, doing nothing, artistic re-invention and the insidious embrace of Microsoft can only lead to the shattering conclusion that, given a chance and a choice, all artists want to be Elvis. That's right, Norbert Fragg has gone Hollywood! Thus: The sudden decision of Mr. Kenny G to release his two CD set through Curdledman Money Grab entertainment, instead of the more humbling, though occasionally bumbling Inspid Foaming Bile music discorporated, sent the Venal and but not yet Feeble Leader to a distant Narnes & Boble bookshop where, energized by a quadruple cappuccino, he perused pertinent pages of a somewhat worn, tear-and-sympathy stained copy of Suicide for Dummies. It was perhaps an impulse for de-invention that lent the opportunity to audition for Mess Shugah, a small, but significant role in Mr. George Lucas's next Star Wars film a compelling aspect easily likened to a key opening a floor in which the grass did not seem greener. With nothing more awaiting immediate attention than some tapestries left broiling by Dan the Gyro in Fragg World Central's computerized metaphor mixing device, and some months to go before my return to the Back Line as a lurking, if unlit, guitarist performing in the reanimated double bubble edition of Wing Friction, the offer received the hearty approval of my hoarse little Goy-ah, herself an actress of some reknown, who commanded me to cease mixing metaphors, shorten my sentences, and follow the procedure common to those seeking infinite wealth through temporary employment in the motion picture industry. "Oh, do not ask what is it," she declaimed, "find an arse and kiss it." A jarring journey to a sybaritic accommodation at the Stystalker Ranch in California's woefully contrite Chagrin County, left me Grumpy and Mildy Cracked. Personal greetings came via computer download: a holographic image of the bearded and butyraceous Mr. Lucas flickered over the in-room hot tub, welcoming me, assuring me that I was among his favorite guitarists, announcing that he owned all of my recorded work and mentioning that the sonic symbolism of "In Search of the Lost Power Cord" and "Knights in White Rattan" had influenced his early films. In keeping with Goy-ah's advice, I replied that, though it may have failed to find its audience, his "Howard the Hockey Puck" had lasting significance in my life. Our conversation steered toward efforts to change the world. I mentioned my refusals to buy frozen perogies and other grocery items produced in nations with Stalinist concert halls. He said he gave up changing the world long ago when he discovered that, due to an enormously clever licensing deal struck with Microsoft, he and Mr. Gates would soon own it. The audition took place in a room with flat, featureless walls painted the color of moldy Stilton. Images photographed against a "bleu screen" could later be plopped in, Mr. Lucas said, to variously cheesy special effects. I was told to that the part for which I was reading, Mesh Shugah, was a Schizoidiac, a mystically manic, partially mechanical, musically expectorating "spittarist" who enigmatically informs Annapkin Stystalker that nothing he's got he really needs. Mr. Lucas admitted that Bono, currently in rehearsal as the giant squid in Andrew Lloyd Webber's musical remake of Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea, and Sting, who, in preparation for a world tour, will be staring at himself in a mirror for several weeks, have both passed on the part. He mentioned also that David Bowie auditioned for the part, and has yet to be informed that he has been cast instead as a spaceship that, during the film's climactic scene, crashes into Meatloaf. I was asked to put a rubber chicken on my head and to "do nothing while we take a level." I announced proudly that doing nothing has become my life's work until Mr. Lucas's cell phone chirped. He politely excused himself and I was told by a bright-eyed minion that Mr. Lucas really and truly loved everything I did, and that he thinks I'm perfect for the part, and that he'll get back to me as soon as he can, but I should please leave the room now, because Ricky Martin is on a tight schedule. On the return flight, I perused the latest edition of Acting For Dummies, content with the knowledge that, despite what appears to be an utter waste of time, a Fragg who can think quickly on his feet may still achieve what he wants for himself: I kept the chicken. Bill Kent ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 17:44:02 PDT From: "Ryan Tassone" Subject: Crimson suspenders! I don't suspect this subject was covered in the dead threads, and I didn't see it in the FAQ's, so I'm gonna be bold and ask...who's saying, "whew...my, my," in "Easy Money" (directly after the two allsorts that occur after the line "crimson suspenders" on LTiA)? Is it obviously Wetton? Did Belew perhaps take this as a cue for his many recited songs? In watching the video release called Yesyears, I've become accostomed to what Bruford's voice sounds like, and maybe that could be him...after all, he was the one who blew the whistle on LTiA, so he does know how to have a little fun during recording. Add to that his partnership (almost apprenticeship) with Muir, and you've got a good case for why Bruford could've wanted to accent that weird ripping, stretching sound after the "crimson suspenders" lyric. Or I could be totally wrong. Thank you for reading this, if you are, in fact, reading this. Ryan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 19:58:26 -0700 (PDT) From: keith adams Subject: jamie muir does anyone have access to any recordings of jamie muir and the music improvisation company? ill be willing to put some money out for it. anyway, e-mail and let me know. keith elliot adams ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 10:12:36 PDT From: "Peter Drubetskoy" Subject: Hm.. Just a correction - in ET#610 Jim Bailey's post "Live in Japan" seen in a new light" appears under my name for some reason, well, that's not me. Actually, I wrote to this digest about seeing KC quotations written on the walls in Verona last week but this post got lost somewhere in the cyber space, I guess. Cheers, and sorry, Jim... Peter. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 10:19:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Tanigawa Subject: Re: Theremins There is an episode of the animated cartoon "I.M. Weasel" in which Weasel's hapless rival I.R. Baboon becomes a theremin virtuoso. It seemed to me that the mellotron would have had more potential as a humorous prop. I could imagine Baboon getting entangled in the tape rack and chewed up by the machinery. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 13:40:20 -0400 From: Ted White Subject: Re: Django Robert Speak tells us: "I believe Nuages is a French word for clouds. Also Dango Reinhart (pardon my spelling) also has a song with this title. One of Dango's 'standards'. It has nothing in common with the KC song. What is interesting is that our Robert F. has mentioned that Dango was one of his influences. Dango had only two or three working fingers on his left hand but produced some incredible jazz -flamenco-spanish tunes.One of RF's first guitar teachers was a flamenco style guitarist." Django Reinhardt (correct spelling) was a Gypsy guitarist who is generally co-credited with "inventing" jazz guitar (along with Charlie Christian) in the thirties, as a member of the Hot Club of France. For many years jazz guitarists had basically two choices: to follow Reinhardt or Christian -- between them they pretty much defined the jazz guitar. It would be surprising if Django was *not* an influence on Fripp; he was an influence on most guitarists. He was not, however, a "flamenco" guitarist, per se. --TW (Dr P) dc-et #6 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 13:56:28 -0400 From: Ted White Subject: Re: Eno's Videos Rafael Maria Di Liumbard sez: "Sorry for Non ET posting... "But does anyone know where one might be able to buy some Eno videos, especially Apollo... And Thursday Afternoon?" I bought THURSDAY AFTERNOON on a laser disk years ago; it might still be available somewhere. But I have to say that this is something only completist Eno collectors would want. It's "ambient video," which is to say, slow, semi-abstract, and uninvolving -- boring, in fact. It's the concept of "wallpaper music" applied to video. The problem is that you can use ambient music or wallpaper music as a background to a wide variety of activities, but a video demands your ongoing attention -- and this video does not repay that attention. Stick with the CD. --TW (Dr P) dc-et #6 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 14:11:36 -0400 From: Ted White Subject: Re: Chamberlains Ronald Vogel opines: "In 1972 the Moody Blues bought a "Chamberlain" which was an enhanced mellotron and had some of the tunning problems already fixed. It was used in their "Seventh Sojourn" album. David Bowie also mentioned using it in "Low". I was wondering. KC was out so of money in 73/74 that they could not afford buying one? Or they simply decided that the mellotrons they had were actually more than enough for the role they played?" Chamberlain invented the Mellotron, but not under that name. An early prototype was sold by an agent, who represented it to be his own, to Dallas Instruments, who developed it as the Mellotron. Chamberlain did not find out for several years. In the meantime he perfected the instrument as the Chamberlain. His goal was to recreate the full sound of the taped instrument -- attack, decay, vibrato, all -- which the Chamberlain did far better than the Mellotron. The AFM was bitterly opposed to the Chamberlain -- one musician using it could do the work of several musicians -- and its use in recording studios has rarely been openly credited. The St. Louis progressive band Ethos (two albums in the seventies) was one of the few to openly acknowledge using Chamberlains. --TW (Dr P) dc-et #6 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 14:38:41 -0500 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: MacDonald and '70s Crimson I heard a quite good interview with Fripp on a Dutch Radio webcast yesterday. In it, he added a significant detail to the story that Ian McDonald told a here a while ago: "Q: You played on Starless - did you return only for the recording session, or were you going to stay? IMcD: I was just playing, it was just recording session, I was just asked if I would play on this one track, although people seem to think that I've rejoined the group. After the session Fripp asked me if I would like to rejoin the group, they were about to go to an American tour. And I said "Yes", and then he immediately, promptly disbanded the group. He... hmm... So I think he just wanted to hear me say about come back to break the band up. A little bit of revenge, I think." As I understand from the Fripp interview, what he had offered was that McDonald not only rejoin the group, but *replace* him in it, so that a Frippless Crimson could continue with at least some continuity from the ITCotCK 1969 band. However, EG management rejected the idea, and the only way for Fripp to exit the group was to break it up completely. Rather than revenge, this looks more like a more toward acknowledgement of McDonald's contributions and skills -- one which, however, appears to have been scuttled from the outside. -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt at metatronpress dot com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Shekhinah: The Presence http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 16:25:08 -0400 From: leslabb at ptd dot net Subject: Toyah Wilcox In New Movie Maybe this was mentioned previously, and I had missed it, but I was reading the September issue of MOJO and there was an ad for a movie titled "Julie and the Cadillacs" starring TOYAH WILCOX. No mention of Robert Fripp in the ad. However in an article in the same issue, concerning the connection between the Devil and Rock'n'Roll, it is mentioned that Robert Fripp had recorded an album with a White Witch by the name of Walli Emlark that dealt with ESP. Anyone else hear about this one? Les B. Labbauf http://home.ptd.net/~leslabb Beauty is the reflection of the appearance of truth. Better to seek truth than the reflection of its appearance. But better to seek beauty than nothing. Author Unkown. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 12:00:25 -0400 From: "merella" Subject: Jamie Muir Recordings The only other recording with Jamie Muir I'm familiar with is the self titled Music Improvisation Company. This album was released on ECM records in the early Seventies. I believe it is one of the first recordings ECM produced so it may be out of print, but go to ECM's web site and check around. I first came across this album in '81 or '82 at a second hand record store. A friend was working there at the time, so I asked him to play a bit of the album. He looked at the cover with a grin and placed the needle to the vinyl. Soon the other patrons were looking around the store with expressions of shock and horror. This was not the latest by the Police or Talking Heads but random events of grating sound. The lack of tonal center and rhythmic structure was too much for our innocent victims and they quickly left the store. "Works every time", said my friend from behind the counter. He then told me he used the album to clear out the store when he felt the need to close up shop for some herbal inspiration. The music on this recording is of the free jazz/ avant garde genre. The other players included Derek Bailey on guitar and I believe Evan Parker on saxophone (both stalwarts on the British avant garde scene). I remember Bailey's guitar sounding very stacatto and metallic much like a prepared piano. Muir was up to his usual antics but with no form or pulse to play against it was rather anti-climactic. (If I heard this again today I may think differently). It's definitely worth a listen if only for the sheer audacity of it all. If you don't have any luck at ECM hit those used record stores. Muir mentions this project and others in his interview on the Elephant Talk Interview page. Let us know what you think if you find this recording. Mark Merella Takoma Park, Md. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 17:18:42 EDT From: DAV1DBOW1E at aol dot com Subject: john wetton cd hello... if anyone is interested in owning the john wetton live cd "chasing the dragon," i am willing to part with my copy for 10 dollars, which will include the cost of priority mail. i was going to auction some stuff on ebay, but i thought i'd give some crimson fans a chance at this one first. it contains a few crimson songs, including a piano/vocal version of "starless," as well as some asia and solo wetton stuff. so if anyone is interested, please email me at bewlaybr0s at aol dot com. (that's a zero in "bros.") thanks. -jason ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 00:51:08 CEST From: "Macahan The Unifaun" Subject: Exiles tab Hi all! I just completed the Exiles guitar tab and sent it to ET, and will appear there soon I hope. Anyway, I'd like to get all tabbers out there to produce a few more tabs so that the tabsection could get a bit more complete. There is a Genesis-tab project that worked brilliantly until the website owner got some problems with the site. But we covered most of 70's Genesis in a few months. I hope we can do the same with Crimso. /Macahan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 19:33:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Joseph Basile Subject: SACRED SONGS Hi, May I recommend the rerelease of SACRED SONGS by Daryl Hall?! The Fripp remastering and 1977 frippertronics makes this a underated masterpiece.(My album was a poor pressing, so this is oh so cool on CD.) The liner notes by Jeremy Holiday, and RF January 1999 take on this album/cd is worth the price! Then Fripp adds BURN ME UP LIKE A CIGARETTE and NORTH STAR as bonus tracks, how could I not fall in love with this again! I remember seeing Hall and Oates at this time (around 1977) Hall played behind a curtain for the start of the show, and I wondered at the time if he copied this from Robert. The other Gutiarist on the album is Caleb Quaye who I recognized from HOOKFOOT. In fact most members of HOOKFOOT played on this CD and toured with HALL and OATES in 1997. (ROARING HOOKFOOT would be another jem to find on CD.)I was very much surprised at the admiration Fripp had for Hall's "pipes". This remaster confirms my belief of Fripp as a very gifted producer! Excellent!!BUDDHA RECORDS 74-465-99604 2 /1999.Buddha@:www.buddharecords.com Oh, David Singleton and Gerald Talbot were given "extra special thanks" on the CD. Why was it so EZ for me to be with you.... Basile ByE the Three Rivers __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 00:10:10 -0700 From: "Terri_Mike_Klein" Subject: Boz on VH1 Fellow Freaks, Just finished consuming newsletter #610 and the post concerning the VH1 special on Bad Co. The poster was correct in stating that Boz didn't speak too glowingly of his former band, KC. In fact, he said something along the lines of having enough of rubbish " fairie music." What a tired and somewhat delirious looking and sounding Boz didn't say was that he started his KC tenure as a roadie and that RF himself taught him to play bass when it became apparent that that was the easiest way to get someone to play the way he liked! Seems we can chalk Boz' fame and fortune up to being at the right place at the right time! In closing, I must mention that I will most definitely wet myself when I see a band on this show that actually deserves it. What's next, Meunedo?? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 14:04:53 +0100 From: "Rainer Straschill" Subject: The_neverending_Mellotronian's_List Hi there ! further examples of Mellotron use: Herbie Hancock uses a tron on his "Sextant" album from 1973, which is also available as a reissue 2CD packaged with "Secrets" from Sony/Columbia. Klaus Doldinger (saxes, keys) makes heavy use of the tron on some of his mid-70ies "Passport" albums, notably "Looking Thru" and "Jubilee 1974 (live)" Don van Vliet a.k.a Captain Beefheart also utilises the many-keyed monster, examples can be found on "Doc at the Radar Station" (1980) and "Safe as Milk" (1984) keep 'em tuned ! Rainer ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 19:10:28 +0300 From: "Toni Suominen" Subject: Jamie Muir-crimson material available? Steve Riley wrote: >I was very pleased to see that DGM finally has released some >live material >with Jamie Muir on it. WOW!!! I didn't know that. What is that material? Toni Suominen tono at mbnet dot fi ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 17:46:43 -0400 From: "merella" Subject: Crimson and Miles I have recently been listening to live Crimson from '73-'74, paying particular attention to the improvisational sections. These urgent explorations remind me of Miles Davis from the same period. When Crimso dispense with a regular pulse they seem to be on their own turf, a sort of late 20th century free rock. But when Wetton and Bruford kick in with a nasty groove they share common ground with Miles. Both bands had shirked chord changes for a modal approach, the emphasis being on shifting textures and dynamics. When I listen to "Asbury Park" I can't help but be reminded of Miles's "Live-Evil" or the nasty aptly titled "Rated X". Miles's haunting "Willi Pt.II" has the same ominous build of "Starless and Bible Black" and "In A Silent Way" is reminiscent of Crimson's quieter improvs. Both bands had a nice solid bass player to play off of (though I think Wetton was a little more adventerous yet not as "in the pocket" as Michael Henderson). Bruford, like Dejohnette let's you know where the groove is yet at the same time mixes things up, accenting the soloist. Fripp like McLaughlin and later Pete Cosey knows how to lay down a stacatto trance groove, yet when the time is right he rips out your guts with razor sharp distortion. David Cross sort of floats on top, as did Miles, but seems to searching for his place in the music rather than pushing it forward. Any Crimhead who enjoys the live improvs of '70's era Crimson should definitely check out Miles from the same period. A good introduction (though controversial) is Bill Laswell's compilation remix, Panthalassa. The version of "Rated X" with the beefed up bass is a mother'. For the grit and fire go straight to the live stuff. When Miles played the Fillmore they should have billed him with Crimson. That would have been a night of hellified music. Robert, if you're out there, were you listening? I bet Bill was. Peace, Mark Merella Takoma Park, Md. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 15:51:22 -0400 From: "Gordon Emory Anderson" Subject: Cale Influence No one has mentioned Cale's work with minimalist LaMonte Young (such as playing chopsticks for something like 9 hours straight) as being a possible influence on Fripp. Of course, no one has ever heard most of those early recordings (because LaMonte Young has kept them squirrled away for some reason), but Cale was certainly a factor in the early days of minimalism, and this can clearly be heard on some of his VU work. And although such work as the League of Crafty Guitarists and 80s Crimson are not exactly minimal, the influence is there. Also, Cale is certainly one of the main grand-daddys of punk rock. After VU (clearly a punk sensibility, particularly in the 'age of aquarius' 1960s), Cale produced Iggy, Patty Smith, and a whole host of early punk recordings. Again, the punk influence on 70s and 80s Crimson may not be direct, but some of the feel is clearly there. Finally, in some of Fripp's writings he mentions his sojourn from England to NYC in the 1970s, desiring to expose himself to the powerful artistic explosion that was still there (or here, I should say). By this time, some of the early punk had begun to pour into a new generation (such as Blondie, Talking Heads, Ramones, to name the more popular ones). This is very remiscent of John Cale, who in the early 1960s sojourned from Wales (via the Eastman school and other hoity-toity music conservatories), to expose himself to the NYC avante garde scene (which gave birth to a lot of modern dance, and forged new directions in the visual arts--Merce Cunningham, Twyla Tharp, Andy Warhol, Bob Dylan, and Yoko Ono were all active in NYC at this time). Oh yeah, don't Eno, Cale, and Nico show up on a live album from the mid 70s together? Clearly, Fripp would have become aware of Cale's work through Eno, just as Cale was aware of Fripp's work with Eno. So whether directly or indirectly, Cale has influenced Fripp, and probably vice-versa as well. Collabroation between these two characters would be interesting, but it would probably last about as long as some of those high atomic-number man-made elements. -Emory ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 19:16:02 -0400 From: moses Subject: Crimson Monkeys? Hello Again, ETers, I'm on a mission. I'm trying to compile a list of all the songs with the word 'monkey' in them. Why? you ask. Well, because, of course, somebody had to. The list I have so far is on my webpage, which can be found at http://www.crosswinds.net/~abdominalyeti Please note, I am only interested in songs where the word Monkey is said in the song, not just in the title. I haven't found any KC songs with the word in it, but of course there's Sylvian/Fripp's *God's Monkey.* What other ones am I missing? It would only make sense to relpy (relpy? What's that?), umm...REPLY privately, either to moses at tmbg dot org or abdominalyeti at crosswinds dot net . There's a link on the page which will allow you to email me also. Thanks in advance for your thoughtful consideration, Moses ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 08:39:50 -0500 From: michael goodall Subject: Eric Tamms Book Hello, Mark Merella enquired about locating Eric Tamm's out of print book. I entered TAMM into the author search at this site (http://dogbert.abebooks.com/abep/il.dll?ph=1) which is the Advanced Book Exchange webpage and I found the book was available at a few used book stores. This service is a great way to track down those hard-to-find gems and at the same time support used books. Michael ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 20:29:30 -0500 (CDT) From: flaherty michael w Subject: Identities; Cale/Reily;Eno Video I. I am willing to apologize if I offended Biffy by comparing him/her to Eb (I DID include a :)). No offence meant. I won't apologize for not realizing that he/she is a long time member--there are too many people on this list to bother trying to keep track of them all. By the way, Biffy: you called me an "obvious newbie", but a quick look at the archives will show that I've been in this letter nearly 100 times in three years. I guess you didn't notice me any more than I noticed you. Who cares? No one. That's my point. II. The album by Terry Reily and John Cale is available on CD in Europe. Import copies can be purchased at www.fe.org. A great album, if you like these guys (as I do), but no resemblance to Fripp, or at least not so one could say, "If you like Fripp you'll like this one" (which, I guess, is a point on that now fading discussion). III. While the music to Eno's "Thursday Afternoon" is readily available, the video is out of print. Used copies tend to be expensive. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:04:21 +0900 From: Chanung Park Subject: Re:Jamie Muir art and other recording? You can get 3 CDs via web shopping. 2 Incus items & Ghost Dance. Music Improvisation Company 1968-71, featuring Derek Bailey, Evan Parker. & Dart Drug with Derek Bailey. GD is soundtrack with Michael Giles(yes! ex-KC) & David Cunningham, under $13 at Cdworld.com. & Incus items are $18 each at Forcedexposure.com. It's the cheapest cost as far as I know. Of course, plus shipping charge. Jamie Muir did typograpy on Derek Bailey's Aida. Oh, & you can see his painting on MIC, photo on DD cover. I have been intereste in JM's percurssion. But IMHO, LTIA is the best. He did all that he could on LTIA 1. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 19:49:11 +0100 From: nigel proctor Subject: Macs 'N' Mex. One for the techies. For us Macs, left out in the cold, consider......would one of the Virtual PC progs.,loaded on a Mac, ( with Windows and Media Player running) be able to download and play 'Live in Mexico City' ?? Just a thought, or is this thread dead? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 19:04:56 -0300 From: "carlos h moller" Subject: how to..... Krimson in Mexico City.... great show ! but: how do i convert the WMA file into a CDA file (is that correct ?), so i can listen to it with a regular CD player ? any ideas ? carlos h moller sao paulo - brazil ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 18:03:52 -0400 (CLT) From: "Miguel Farah F." Subject: Old winamp / new winamp? I heard _somewhere_ that the newest winamp 2.5 won't let you transfer a WMA to a WAV file, so copyright won't be broken. As far as we care, currently, the infamous _Live in Mexico City_ is free, and it's been stated explicitly in the DGM web site that burning that show into a CD for personal private use is within the fair use copyright law. So, with that in mind, I'd like to get a hold of the older winamp 2.24. Was anyone here wise enough to keep the install file? If so, can you send me a copy? Thanks. Ob-KC content: show many of you are counting days until _The Great Deceiver_ is released? -- MIGUEL FARAH // miguel at webhost dot cl #include // http://www.webhost.cl/~miguel <*> "Trust me - I know what I'm doing." - Sledge Hammer ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:25:06 +0100 From: SeaHunter Subject: Re King Crimson live in Mexico Sorry but I tend to use a humble psion5 and an old 486 for my internet excursions, this download is not even worth me attempting to get, I cannot even run half the microsoft material. Considering the cost to hear this would likely be of the order of #800 in hardware upgrades, I can't consider it worth it. I am happy to pay over the odds for cd's that are of personal importance (i.e shows I've been to, though not likely in UK with KC!) and can only hope that some service can be provided to supply cd copies from DGM. I can appreciate that Robert wishes to use the latest technologies, but we are'nt all in a position to chuck money in PC upgrade after upgrade to keep up, I havent' got the dvd disc of crimson and am unlikely to until the technology stabilises and i can afford it. But I am not bitter about it, merely resigned to the fact, after all what I really want is the live experience. Come to Wales Robert - we'll do our best not to smoke, take photos etc. Robert ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 12:18:10 -0500 From: michael goodall Subject: Mexico City Hi all, Has anyone figured out the track times for each song from the Mexico download show? And relatedly, has anyone created a nice CD cover for this? Finally, how does one split a long .wav file into separate, shorter tracks? I have the most recent WinAmp. michael ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #612 ********************************