Elephant Talk #612 (as text)

9 September 1999

Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 11:42:10 +0100 (WET DST)
From: Stephane Alexandre <as33 at multimania dot com>
Subject: NEWS: PJ Crook - Exhibition
Dear Elephant-Talkers,

PJ CROOK, the painter of the last King Crimson CDs' covers, is exhibiting
at Galerie Alain Blondel in Paris. The exhibition starts on thursday the
9th of September and ends on saturday the 30th of October 1999.  The
address is (close to forum des halles and centre George Pompidou) Galerie
Alain Blondel, 4 rue Aubry le Boucher, 75004 PARIS (FRANCE) metro :
Chatelet-Les Halles ou Rambuteau The opening hours are : Tuesday to friday
- 11h to 13 h and 14h to 19h. Saturday - 14 h a 19h.

A +,    Stephane.
       ElEphAnt wAlk - un site  dedie a - KiNG CRiMSoN
        par  Stephane ALEXANDRE : as33 at multimania dot com

Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 16:58:13 +0100
From: Matthew Nolan <mattn at oaktech dot com>
Subject: (OFF TOPIC) Mellotron and Theremin
Shameless plug! My band uses Mellotron samples here and there and we
have also faked a Theremin using an analogue filter module feeding back
on itself. We also have a bit of a thing for odd time signatures and are
quite heavy on guitars. Our bass player has some TLev Funk Fingers
although has not used them in anger on a recording yet. I play VDrums.
You can find out all about us at http://www.rbtb.co.uk/ and hear some
songs on line at http://www.mp3.com/rbtb/  We have a CD EP coming out in
2-3 weeks time.


Matt Nolan.
--Day Job: VLSI Design Engineer--Oak Technology Ltd.--Bristol--UK--
--Evenings and Weekends: Sound Engineer--Producer---Teeth Records--
--Drummer--The Rob Beadle Triangle Band-- http://www.rbtb.co.uk/ --

Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 17:08:39 +0100
From: Matthew Nolan <mattn at oaktech dot com>
Subject: Re: Singing Drums of Favre
> Would some ET'er with "eclectic" listening habits
> perhaps provide us with a review of Prism's source: Pierre Favre
> Ensemble's Singing Drums?  Is it rewarding / intriguing listening for
> non-drummers?

Sadly, I am a drummer so can't speak for non-drummers. But I do own the
Singing Drums album. Personally, I prefer the Bruford / Mastelotto /
Belew rendition than the original Ensemble - it has more edge.

The whole Singing Drums album is actually rather mellow. Not the kind of
thing you'd perhaps expect from a percussion ensemble. It could well be
rewarding listening for non-drummers, depends upon your tastes. I'm
sorry that doesn't really help much.

Perhaps there are downloadable clips somewhere (not on CDNOW, I've just
had a look)?


Matt Nolan.
--Day Job: VLSI Design Engineer--Oak Technology Ltd.--Bristol--UK--
--Evenings and Weekends: Sound Engineer--Producer---Teeth Records--
--Drummer--The Rob Beadle Triangle Band-- http://www.rbtb.co.uk/ --

Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 16:10:19 GMT
From: et at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk (Elephant Talk)
Subject: Mellotron again
SYNCHRO, RONALD VOGEL <RONALD dot VOGEL dot SYNCHRO at la2 dot monsanto dot com> wrote...

> In 1972 the Moody Blues bought a "Chamberlain" which was an enhanced
> mellotron and had some of the tunning problems already fixed. It was used in
> their "Seventh Sojourn" album. David Bowie also mentioned using it in "Low".
> I was wondering. KC was out so of money in 73/74 that they could not afford
> buying one? Or they simply decided that the mellotrons they had were
> actually more than enough for the role they played?

The Chamberlin (note the spelling) was the American predecessor to the
Mellotron and had a huge number of shortcomings, mostly associated with
its internal build design. The Mellotron, believe it or not, was a
substantial improvement over this original design.

On a KC-related note, it may be of interest to some readers to learn
that the famous 'Mellotron string' sound is a recording that Harry
Chamberlin made of three session violinists playing in his daughter's
bedroom in 1951.

Mike Dickson - Elephant Talk Administration (help at elephant-talk dot com)
For subscription information post HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com

Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 15:15:35 +0200
From: Michel Seigneuret <seigneur at lpbc dot jussieu dot fr>
Subject: new KC japanese releases
These are both informations and questions:
I recently spotted in some megastores in Paris (France, not Texas)
several KC or related japanese imports made by Poly Canyon.
1)A box set containing the three first DGM collectors club releases
 (Marquee, Jacksonville, Bremen). Apparently some parts of the initial
 Marquee release have been edited out (e.g. Epitaph),
 This may represent an alternate way for getting these releases.
2)Two Projekct live CD's:
  "Live Groove" by Projekct Two
  "Live at the Jazz Cafe" by Projekct One
Since these two are not documented in the ET releases section, I would
appreciate any information/appreciation on these.


Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 08:08:14 +1000
From: "Mirva & Gye Bennetts" <gyemirva at acay dot com dot au>
Subject: Giles / Muir CD
Dear ETers,

I just found this information for another ET reader and though I would post
it again.

The Michael Giles / Jamie Muir CD is called  Ghost Dance on Piano Records,
Cat No. ( Piano501)

Credit Card Hotline  USA - (+1) 800 567 9185
                                    UK (+ 44) 191  512 1109

Gye Bennetts

Sydney, Australia

Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 12:24:08 PDT
From: "douglas miller" <ian_mackaye at hotmail dot com>
Subject: Another record with mellotron
Hi all,
    There seems to be an ongoing discussion of other bands who used the
mellotron in the 60's and 70's other than Crimson. I've seen many bands
listed, but don't recall seeing Jethro Tull listed. I didn't realize they
used mellotron until today. I was listening to the Aqualung record and
noticed a string sound in the background and didn't recall seeing any
strings credits and noticed John Evan, the keybroadist, was credited with
mellotron playing. I don't maybe no one cares, but people seem to have been
interested into this lately, so I hope no one already mentioned. So bye for

                                   Douglas Miller

Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 15:22:17 -0400
From: pete <pjmcclym at erols dot com>
Subject: Unrelated KC concert alert
This concert alert is unrelated to KC - sorry.  But, I saw godspeed you
black emperor! twice over the Labor Day weekend.  Anyone in the US is
urged to go see them.  For the uninitiated, gybe are a nine (or more)
piece collective from Montreal playing brooding, swirlling instrumental
pieces.  They are reminiscent of the Dirty Three, Rachel's and the
Kronos Quartet - only better.
I caught them in Philadelphia supporting the superb Mogwai and in DC
supporting LaBradford.  More than half of the audience left the DC gig
before LaBraford came on.  Gives you an idea of the buzz surrounding
Go see 'em!  I'm confident KC fans will not be disappointed - this long
time fan was not.

Gig list and a sound sample from the new EP at
also check out

Once again apologies for cluttering up the KC newlsetter on unrelated

Pete McClymont
pjmcclym at erols dot com

Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 14:23:58 EDT
From: Bknt at aol dot com
Subject: The casting of Norbert Fragg
Dear Team,

Can it be? Is our foaming, bilious guitarist contemplating the next step in
mass culture success? Recent diary entries about mixed metaphors, doing
nothing, artistic re-invention and the insidious embrace of Microsoft can
only lead to the shattering conclusion that, given a chance and a choice, all
artists want to be Elvis. That's right, Norbert Fragg has gone Hollywood!


The sudden decision of Mr. Kenny G to release his two CD set through
Curdledman Money Grab entertainment, instead of the more humbling, though
occasionally bumbling Inspid Foaming Bile music discorporated, sent the Venal
and but not yet Feeble Leader to a distant Narnes & Boble bookshop where,
energized by a quadruple cappuccino, he perused pertinent pages of a somewhat
worn, tear-and-sympathy stained copy of Suicide for Dummies.

It was perhaps an impulse for de-invention that lent the opportunity to
audition for Mess Shugah, a small, but significant role in Mr. George Lucas's
next Star Wars film a compelling aspect easily likened to a key opening a
floor in which the grass did not seem greener. With nothing more awaiting
immediate attention than some tapestries left broiling by Dan the Gyro in
Fragg World Central's computerized metaphor mixing device, and some months to
go before my return to the Back Line as a lurking, if unlit, guitarist
performing in the reanimated double bubble edition of Wing Friction, the
offer received the hearty approval of  my hoarse little Goy-ah, herself an
actress of some reknown, who commanded me to cease mixing metaphors, shorten
my sentences, and follow the procedure common to those seeking infinite
wealth through temporary employment in the motion picture industry. "Oh, do
not ask what is it," she declaimed, "find an arse and kiss it."

A jarring journey to a sybaritic accommodation at the Stystalker Ranch in
California's woefully contrite Chagrin County, left me Grumpy and Mildy
Cracked. Personal greetings came via computer download: a holographic image
of the bearded and butyraceous Mr. Lucas flickered over the in-room hot tub,
welcoming me, assuring me that I was among his favorite guitarists,
announcing that he owned all of my recorded work and mentioning that the
sonic symbolism of "In Search of the Lost Power Cord" and "Knights in White
Rattan" had influenced his early films.

In keeping with Goy-ah's advice, I replied that, though it may have failed to
find its audience,  his "Howard the Hockey Puck" had lasting significance in
my life. Our conversation steered toward efforts to change the world. I
mentioned my refusals to buy frozen perogies and other grocery items produced
in nations with Stalinist concert halls. He said he gave up changing the
world long ago when he discovered that, due to an enormously clever licensing
deal struck with Microsoft, he and Mr. Gates would soon own it.

The audition took place in a room with flat, featureless walls painted the
color of moldy Stilton.  Images photographed against a "bleu screen" could
later be plopped in, Mr. Lucas said, to variously cheesy special effects. I
was told to that the part for which I was reading, Mesh Shugah, was a
Schizoidiac, a mystically manic, partially mechanical, musically
expectorating "spittarist" who enigmatically informs Annapkin Stystalker that
nothing he's got he really needs.

Mr. Lucas admitted that Bono, currently in rehearsal as the giant squid in
Andrew Lloyd Webber's musical remake of Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the
Sea, and Sting, who, in preparation for a world tour, will be staring at
himself in a mirror for several weeks, have both passed on the part. He
mentioned also that David Bowie auditioned for the part, and has yet to be
informed that he has been cast instead as a spaceship that, during the film's
climactic scene, crashes into Meatloaf.

I was asked to put a rubber chicken on my head and to "do nothing while we
take a level." I announced proudly that doing nothing has become my life's
work until Mr. Lucas's cell phone chirped. He politely excused himself and I
was told by a bright-eyed minion that Mr. Lucas really and truly loved
everything I did, and that he thinks I'm perfect for the part, and that he'll
get back to me as soon as he can, but I should please leave the room now,
because Ricky Martin is on a tight schedule.

On the return flight, I perused the latest edition of Acting For Dummies,
content with the knowledge that, despite what appears to be an utter waste of
time, a Fragg who can think quickly on his feet may still achieve what he
wants for himself:

I kept the chicken.

Bill Kent

Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 17:44:02 PDT
From: "Ryan Tassone" <aqua_tarkus_ at hotmail dot com>
Subject: Crimson suspenders!
I don't suspect this subject was covered in the dead threads, and I didn't
see it in the FAQ's, so I'm gonna be bold and ask...who's saying,
"whew...my, my," in "Easy Money" (directly after the two allsorts that occur
after the line "crimson suspenders" on LTiA)?  Is it obviously Wetton?  Did
Belew perhaps take this as a cue for his many recited songs?  In watching
the video release called Yesyears, I've become accostomed to what Bruford's
voice sounds like, and maybe that could be him...after all, he was the one
who blew the whistle on LTiA, so he does know how to have a little fun
during recording.  Add to that his partnership (almost apprenticeship) with
Muir, and you've got a good case for why Bruford could've wanted to accent
that weird ripping, stretching sound after the "crimson suspenders" lyric.
Or I could be totally wrong.  Thank you for reading this, if you are, in
fact, reading this.


Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 19:58:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: keith adams <starless_and_bible_black at yahoo dot com>
Subject: jamie muir
does anyone have access to any recordings of jamie muir and the music
improvisation company?  ill be willing to put some money out for
it. anyway, e-mail and let me know.

keith elliot adams

Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 10:12:36 PDT
From: "Peter Drubetskoy" <pdrubetskoy at hotmail dot com>
Subject: Hm..
Just a correction - in ET#610 Jim Bailey's post "Live in Japan" seen in a
new light" appears under my name for some reason, well, that's not me.
Actually, I wrote to this digest about seeing KC quotations written on the
walls in Verona last week but this post got lost somewhere in the cyber
space, I guess.
Cheers, and sorry, Jim...

Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 10:19:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Tanigawa <tanigawa at cadence dot com>
Subject: Re: Theremins
There is an episode of the animated cartoon "I.M. Weasel" in which Weasel's
hapless rival I.R. Baboon becomes a theremin virtuoso.

It seemed to me that the mellotron would have had more potential as a humorous
prop.  I could imagine Baboon getting entangled in the tape rack and chewed up
by the machinery.


Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 13:40:20 -0400
From: Ted White <tedwhite at compusnet dot com>
Subject: Re: Django
Robert Speak tells us:

"I believe Nuages is a French word for clouds.  Also Dango Reinhart (pardon
my spelling) also has a song with this title. One of Dango's 'standards'.
It has nothing in common with the KC song.  What is interesting is that our
Robert F. has mentioned that Dango was one of his influences. Dango had
only two or three working fingers on his left hand but produced some
incredible jazz -flamenco-spanish tunes.One of RF's first guitar teachers
was a flamenco style guitarist."

Django Reinhardt (correct spelling) was a Gypsy guitarist who is generally
co-credited with "inventing" jazz guitar (along with Charlie Christian) in
the thirties, as a member of the Hot Club of France.  For many years jazz
guitarists had basically two choices: to follow Reinhardt or Christian --
between them they pretty much defined the jazz guitar.  It would be
surprising if Django was *not* an influence on Fripp; he was an influence
on most guitarists.  He was not, however, a "flamenco" guitarist, per se.

--TW (Dr P) dc-et #6

Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 13:56:28 -0400
From: Ted White <tedwhite at compusnet dot com>
Subject: Re: Eno's Videos
Rafael Maria Di Liumbard sez:

"Sorry for Non ET posting...  "But does anyone know where one might be able
to buy some Eno videos, especially Apollo... And Thursday Afternoon?"

I bought THURSDAY AFTERNOON on a laser disk years ago; it
might still be available somewhere.  But I have to say that
this is something only completist Eno collectors would
want.  It's "ambient video," which is to say, slow,
semi-abstract, and uninvolving -- boring, in fact.  It's the
concept of "wallpaper music" applied to video.  The problem
is that you can use ambient music or wallpaper music as a
background to a wide variety of activities, but a video
demands your ongoing attention -- and this video does not
repay that attention.  Stick with the CD.

--TW (Dr P) dc-et #6

Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 14:11:36 -0400
From: Ted White <tedwhite at compusnet dot com>
Subject: Re: Chamberlains
Ronald Vogel opines:

"In 1972 the Moody Blues bought a "Chamberlain" which was an enhanced
mellotron and had some of the tunning problems already fixed. It was used
in their "Seventh Sojourn" album. David Bowie also mentioned using it in
"Low".  I was wondering. KC was out so of money in 73/74 that they could
not afford buying one? Or they simply decided that the mellotrons they had
were actually more than enough for the role they played?"

Chamberlain invented the Mellotron, but not under that name.  An early
prototype was sold by an agent, who represented it to be his own, to Dallas
Instruments, who developed it as the Mellotron.  Chamberlain did not find
out for several years.  In the meantime he perfected the instrument as the
Chamberlain.  His goal was to recreate the full sound of the taped
instrument -- attack, decay, vibrato, all -- which the Chamberlain did far
better than the Mellotron.  The AFM was bitterly opposed to the Chamberlain
-- one musician using it could do the work of several musicians -- and its
use in recording studios has rarely been openly credited.  The St. Louis
progressive band Ethos (two albums in the seventies) was one of the few to
openly acknowledge using Chamberlains.

--TW (Dr P) dc-et #6

Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 14:38:41 -0500
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt at metatronpress dot com>
Subject: MacDonald and '70s Crimson
I heard a quite good interview with Fripp on a Dutch Radio webcast
yesterday. In it, he added a significant detail to the story that Ian
McDonald told a here a while ago:

"Q: You played on Starless - did you return only for the recording
session, or were you going to stay?

IMcD: I was just playing, it was just recording session, I was just
asked if I would play on this one track, although people seem to think
that I've rejoined the group. After the session Fripp asked me if I
would like to rejoin the group, they were about to go to an American
tour. And I said "Yes", and then he immediately, promptly disbanded the
group. He... hmm... So I think he just wanted to hear me say about come
back to break the band up. A little bit of revenge, I think."

As I understand from the Fripp interview, what he had offered was that
McDonald not only rejoin the group, but *replace* him in it, so that a
Frippless Crimson could continue with at least some continuity from
the ITCotCK 1969 band. However, EG management rejected the idea, and
the only way for Fripp to exit the group was to break it up completely.

Rather than revenge, this looks more like a more toward acknowledgement
of McDonald's contributions and skills -- one which, however, appears
to have been scuttled from the outside.

|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| jzitt at metatronpress dot com           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Shekhinah: The Presence     http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |

Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 16:25:08 -0400
From: leslabb at ptd dot net
Subject: Toyah Wilcox In New Movie
Maybe this was mentioned previously, and I had missed it, but I was
reading the September issue of MOJO and there was an ad for a movie titled
"Julie and the Cadillacs" starring TOYAH WILCOX.  No mention of Robert
Fripp in the ad.

However in an article in the same issue, concerning the connection between
the Devil and Rock'n'Roll, it is mentioned that Robert Fripp had recorded
an album with a White Witch by the name of Walli Emlark that dealt with
ESP.  Anyone else hear about this one?

Les B. Labbauf

Beauty is the reflection of the appearance of truth.
Better to seek truth than the reflection of its appearance. But better to
seek beauty than nothing.
Author Unkown.

Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 12:00:25 -0400
From: "merella" <merella at boo dot net>
Subject: Jamie Muir Recordings
The only other recording with Jamie Muir I'm familiar with is the self
titled Music Improvisation Company. This album was released on ECM records
in the early Seventies. I believe it is one of the first recordings ECM
produced so it may be out of print, but go to ECM's web site and check
around. I first came across this album in '81 or '82 at a second hand record
store. A friend was working there at the time, so I asked him to play a bit
of the album. He looked at the cover with a grin and placed the needle to
the vinyl. Soon the other patrons were looking around the store with
expressions of shock and horror. This was not the latest by the Police or
Talking Heads but random events of grating sound. The lack of tonal center
and rhythmic structure was too much for our innocent victims and they
quickly left the store. "Works every time", said my friend from behind the
counter. He then told me he used the album to clear out the store when he
felt the need to close up shop for some herbal inspiration. The music on
this recording is of the free jazz/  avant garde genre. The other players
included Derek Bailey on guitar and I believe Evan Parker on saxophone (both
stalwarts on the British avant garde scene). I remember Bailey's guitar
sounding very stacatto and metallic much like a prepared piano. Muir was up
to his usual antics but with no form or pulse to play against it was rather
anti-climactic. (If I heard this again today I may think differently). It's
definitely worth a listen if only for the sheer audacity of it all. If you
don't have any luck at ECM hit those used record stores. Muir mentions this
project and others in his interview on the Elephant Talk Interview page. Let
us know what you think if you find this recording.

Mark Merella
Takoma Park, Md.

Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 17:18:42 EDT
From: DAV1DBOW1E at aol dot com
Subject: john wetton cd

if anyone is interested in owning the john wetton live cd "chasing the
dragon," i am willing to part with my copy for 10 dollars, which will include
the cost of priority mail.  i was going to auction some stuff on ebay, but i
thought i'd give some crimson fans a chance at this one first.  it contains a
few crimson songs, including a piano/vocal version of "starless," as well as
some asia and solo wetton stuff.  so if anyone is interested, please email me
at bewlaybr0s at aol dot com.  (that's a zero in "bros.")  thanks.


Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 00:51:08 CEST
From: "Macahan The Unifaun" <the_unifaun at hotmail dot com>
Subject: Exiles tab
Hi all!

I just completed the Exiles guitar tab and sent it to ET, and will appear
there soon I hope. Anyway, I'd like to get all tabbers out there to produce
a few more tabs so that the tabsection could get a bit more complete. There
is a Genesis-tab project that worked brilliantly until the website owner got
some problems with the site. But we covered most of 70's Genesis in a few
months. I hope we can do the same with Crimso.


Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 19:33:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Joseph Basile <basilej at yahoo dot com>
May I recommend the rerelease of SACRED SONGS by Daryl Hall?! The Fripp
remastering and 1977 frippertronics makes this a underated
masterpiece.(My album was a poor pressing, so this is oh so cool on
CD.) The liner notes by Jeremy Holiday, and RF January 1999 take on
this album/cd is worth the price! Then Fripp adds BURN ME UP LIKE A
CIGARETTE and NORTH STAR as bonus tracks, how could I not fall in love
with this again! I remember seeing Hall and Oates at this time (around
1977) Hall played behind a curtain for the start of the show, and I
wondered at the time if he copied this from Robert. The other Gutiarist
on the album is Caleb Quaye who I recognized from HOOKFOOT. In fact
most members of HOOKFOOT played on this CD and toured with HALL and
OATES in 1997. (ROARING HOOKFOOT would be another jem to find on CD.)I
was very much surprised at the admiration Fripp had for Hall's "pipes".
This  remaster confirms my belief of Fripp as a very gifted producer!
Excellent!!BUDDHA RECORDS 74-465-99604 2
Oh, David Singleton and Gerald Talbot were given "extra special thanks"
on the CD.
Why was it so EZ for me to be with you....
Basile ByE the Three Rivers
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 00:10:10 -0700
From: "Terri_Mike_Klein" <penylain at gte dot net>
Subject: Boz on VH1
Fellow Freaks,
     Just finished consuming newsletter #610 and the post concerning the VH1
special on Bad Co. The poster was correct in stating that Boz didn't speak
too glowingly of his former band, KC. In fact, he said something along the
lines of having enough of rubbish " fairie music." What a tired and somewhat
delirious looking and sounding Boz didn't say was that he started his KC
tenure as a roadie and that RF himself taught him to play bass when it
became apparent that that was the easiest way to get someone to play the way
he liked! Seems we can chalk Boz' fame and fortune up to being at the right
place at the right time! In closing, I must mention that I will most
definitely wet myself when I see a band on this show that actually deserves
it. What's next, Meunedo??

Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 14:04:53 +0100
From: "Rainer Straschill" <moin at eikon dot tum dot de>
Subject: The_neverending_Mellotronian's_List
Hi there !

further examples of Mellotron use:

Herbie Hancock uses a tron on his "Sextant" album from 1973, which is also
available as a reissue 2CD packaged with "Secrets" from Sony/Columbia.

Klaus Doldinger (saxes, keys) makes heavy use of the tron on some of his
mid-70ies "Passport" albums, notably "Looking Thru" and "Jubilee 1974

Don van Vliet a.k.a Captain Beefheart also utilises the many-keyed monster,
examples can be found on "Doc at the Radar Station" (1980) and "Safe as
Milk" (1984)

keep 'em tuned !


Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 19:10:28 +0300
From: "Toni Suominen" <tono at mbnet dot fi>
Subject: Jamie Muir-crimson material available?
Steve Riley wrote:

>I was very pleased to see that DGM finally has released some >live material
>with Jamie Muir on it.

WOW!!! I didn't know that. What is that material?

Toni Suominen
tono at mbnet dot fi

Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 17:46:43 -0400
From: "merella" <merella at boo dot net>
Subject: Crimson and Miles
I have recently been listening to live Crimson from '73-'74, paying
particular attention to the improvisational sections. These urgent
explorations remind me of Miles Davis from the same period. When Crimso
dispense with a regular pulse they seem to be on their own turf, a sort of
late 20th century free rock. But when Wetton and Bruford kick in with a
nasty groove they share common ground with Miles. Both bands had shirked
chord changes for a modal approach, the emphasis being on shifting textures
and dynamics. When I listen to "Asbury Park" I can't help but be reminded
of Miles's "Live-Evil" or the nasty aptly titled "Rated X". Miles's
haunting "Willi Pt.II" has the same ominous build of "Starless and Bible
Black" and "In A Silent Way" is reminiscent of Crimson's quieter improvs.
Both bands had a nice solid bass player to play off of (though I think
Wetton was a little more adventerous yet not as "in the pocket" as Michael
Henderson).  Bruford, like Dejohnette let's you know where the groove is
yet at the same time mixes things up, accenting the soloist. Fripp like
McLaughlin and later Pete Cosey knows how to lay down a stacatto trance
groove, yet when the time is right he rips out your guts with razor sharp
distortion. David Cross sort of floats on top, as did Miles, but seems to
searching for his place in the music rather than pushing it forward. Any
Crimhead who enjoys the live improvs of '70's era Crimson should definitely
check out Miles from the same period. A good introduction (though
controversial) is Bill Laswell's compilation remix, Panthalassa. The
version of "Rated X" with the beefed up bass is a mother'. For the grit and
fire go straight to the live stuff. When Miles played the Fillmore they
should have billed him with Crimson. That would have been a night of
hellified music.

Robert, if you're out there, were you listening? I bet Bill was.

Mark Merella
Takoma Park, Md.

Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 15:51:22 -0400
From: "Gordon Emory Anderson" <ganderso at telcordia dot com>
Subject: Cale Influence
No one has mentioned Cale's work with minimalist LaMonte Young (such as
playing chopsticks for something like 9 hours straight) as being a possible
influence on Fripp. Of course, no one has ever heard most of those early
recordings (because LaMonte Young has kept them squirrled away for some
reason), but Cale was certainly a factor in the early days of minimalism,
and this can clearly be heard on some of his VU work. And although such
work as the League of Crafty Guitarists and 80s Crimson are not exactly
minimal, the influence is there.  Also, Cale is certainly one of the main
grand-daddys of punk rock. After VU (clearly a punk sensibility,
particularly in the 'age of aquarius' 1960s), Cale produced Iggy, Patty
Smith, and a whole host of early punk recordings. Again, the punk influence
on 70s and 80s Crimson may not be direct, but some of the feel is clearly

Finally, in some of Fripp's writings he mentions his sojourn from England
to NYC in the 1970s, desiring to expose himself to the powerful artistic
explosion that was still there (or here, I should say). By this time, some
of the early punk had begun to pour into a new generation (such as Blondie,
Talking Heads, Ramones, to name the more popular ones). This is very
remiscent of John Cale, who in the early 1960s sojourned from Wales (via
the Eastman school and other hoity-toity music conservatories), to expose
himself to the NYC avante garde scene (which gave birth to a lot of modern
dance, and forged new directions in the visual arts--Merce Cunningham,
Twyla Tharp, Andy Warhol, Bob Dylan, and Yoko Ono were all active in NYC at
this time).  Oh yeah, don't Eno, Cale, and Nico show up on a live album
from the mid 70s together? Clearly, Fripp would have become aware of Cale's
work through Eno, just as Cale was aware of Fripp's work with Eno.

So whether directly or indirectly, Cale has influenced Fripp, and probably
vice-versa as well. Collabroation between these two characters would be
interesting, but it would probably last about as long as some of those high
atomic-number man-made elements.


Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 19:16:02 -0400
From: moses <moses at access995 dot com>
Subject: Crimson Monkeys?
Hello Again, ETers,

I'm on a mission.  I'm trying to compile a list of all the songs with
the word 'monkey' in them.  Why? you ask.  Well, because, of course,
somebody had to.  The list I have so far is on my webpage, which can be
found at http://www.crosswinds.net/~abdominalyeti

Please note, I am only interested in songs where the word Monkey is said
in the song, not just in the title.  I haven't found any KC songs with
the word in it, but of course there's Sylvian/Fripp's *God's Monkey.*
What other ones am I missing?

It would only make sense to relpy (relpy?  What's that?), umm...REPLY
privately, either to moses at tmbg dot org or abdominalyeti at crosswinds dot net .
There's a link on the page which will allow you to email me also.

Thanks in advance for your thoughtful consideration,


Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 08:39:50 -0500
From: michael goodall <goodall at earthling dot net>
Subject: Eric Tamms Book

 Mark Merella enquired about locating Eric Tamm's out of print book.

 I entered TAMM into the author search at this site
 which is the Advanced Book Exchange webpage and I found the book
 was available at a few used book stores. This service is a great way
 to track down those hard-to-find gems and at the same time
 support used books.


Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 20:29:30 -0500 (CDT)
From: flaherty michael w <z946128 at rice dot farm dot niu dot edu>
Subject: Identities; Cale/Reily;Eno Video
I.  I am willing to apologize if I offended Biffy by comparing him/her to
Eb (I DID include a :)).  No offence meant.  I won't apologize for not
realizing that he/she is a long time member--there are too many people on
this list to bother trying to keep track of them all.  By the way, Biffy:
you called me an "obvious newbie", but a quick look at the archives will
show that I've been in this letter nearly 100 times in three
years.  I guess you didn't notice me any more than I noticed you.
Who cares?  No one.  That's my point.

II.  The album by Terry Reily and John Cale is available on CD in Europe.
Import copies can be purchased at www.fe.org.  A great album, if you like
these guys (as I do), but no resemblance to Fripp, or at least not so one
could say, "If you like Fripp you'll like this one" (which, I guess, is a
point on that now fading discussion).

III.  While the music to Eno's "Thursday Afternoon" is readily available,
the video is out of print.  Used copies tend to be expensive.

Michael Flaherty

Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:04:21 +0900
From: Chanung Park <cwpark at kobaco dot co dot kr>
Subject: Re:Jamie Muir art and other recording?
You can get 3 CDs via web shopping.
2 Incus items & Ghost Dance.
Music Improvisation Company 1968-71, featuring Derek Bailey, Evan
Parker. & Dart Drug with Derek Bailey.
GD is soundtrack with Michael Giles(yes! ex-KC) & David Cunningham,
under $13 at Cdworld.com.
& Incus items are $18 each at Forcedexposure.com. It's the cheapest cost
as far as I know. Of course, plus shipping charge.
Jamie Muir did typograpy on Derek Bailey's Aida.
Oh, & you can see his painting on MIC, photo on DD cover.
I have been intereste in JM's percurssion. But IMHO, LTIA is the best.
He did all that he could on LTIA 1.

Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 19:49:11 +0100
From: nigel proctor <nkp at dircon dot co dot uk>
Subject: Macs 'N' Mex.
One for the techies.
For us Macs, left out in the cold, consider......would one of the
Virtual PC progs.,loaded on a Mac,
( with Windows and  Media Player running) be able to download and play
'Live in Mexico City' ??
Just a thought, or is this thread dead?

Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 19:04:56 -0300
From: "carlos h moller" <chmoller at zaz dot com dot br>
Subject: how to.....
Krimson in Mexico City.... great show ! but: how do i convert the WMA file
into a CDA file (is that correct ?), so i can listen to it with a regular
CD player ?  any ideas ?

carlos h moller
sao paulo - brazil

Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 18:03:52 -0400 (CLT)
From: "Miguel Farah F." <miguel at antonia dot webhost dot cl>
Subject: Old winamp / new winamp?
I heard _somewhere_ that the newest winamp 2.5 won't let you transfer a
WMA to a WAV file, so copyright won't be broken.

As far as we care, currently, the infamous _Live in Mexico City_ is
free, and it's been stated explicitly in the DGM web site that burning
that show into a CD for personal private use is within the fair use
copyright law. So, with that in mind, I'd like to get a hold of the
older winamp 2.24. Was anyone here wise enough to keep the install file?
If so, can you send me a copy? Thanks.

Ob-KC content: show many of you are counting days until _The Great
Deceiver_ is released?

MIGUEL FARAH              //   miguel at webhost dot cl
#include <disclaimer.h>   //   http://www.webhost.cl/~miguel
"Trust me - I know what I'm doing."
- Sledge Hammer

Date: Wed,  8 Sep 1999 23:25:06 +0100
From: SeaHunter <robert dot lethbridge at net dot ntl dot com>
Subject: Re King Crimson live in Mexico
Sorry but I tend to use a humble psion5 and an old 486 for my internet
excursions, this download is not even worth me attempting to get, I cannot
even run half the microsoft material.

Considering the cost to hear this would likely be of the order of #800 in
hardware upgrades, I can't consider it worth it.

I am happy to pay over the odds for cd's that are of personal importance (i.e
shows I've been to, though not likely in UK with KC!) and can only hope that
some service can be provided to supply cd copies from DGM.

I can appreciate that Robert wishes to use the latest technologies, but we
are'nt all in a position to chuck money in PC upgrade after upgrade to keep
up, I havent' got the dvd disc of crimson and am unlikely to until the
technology stabilises and i can afford it.

But I am not bitter about it, merely resigned to the fact, after all what I
really want is the live experience.

Come to Wales Robert - we'll do our best not to smoke, take photos etc.


Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 12:18:10 -0500
From: michael goodall <goodall at earthling dot net>
Subject: Mexico City
Hi all,

Has anyone figured out the track times for each song from the Mexico
download show? And relatedly, has anyone created a nice CD cover for
this? Finally, how does one split a long .wav file into separate,
shorter tracks? I have the most recent WinAmp.


Mike Stok