Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #608 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 608 Wednesday, 25 August 1999 Today's Topics: NEWS: Mexico/Microsoft Really a KC song? Theremim Sighting Re:Really a KC Song? Tron/Sabbath Corrections Re: Really a KC song ???? ("Robert Y. Gray") keith emerson and asia Huh?????? (FZ & KC & VU) RE: Russificated King Crimson Re: INDONESIAN CRIMSON Hall & Fripp Cale & Fripp with Eno Re: ProjeKcts!!?? Welcome me! Steve Reich and Crimson Re: "Nuages" Re: "Thela Hun Ginjeet" "The Night Watch" solo Dutch Radio--Fripp on Sept. 6th Re: Elephant Talk #607 CB used a `tron Mellotron Nuage Music for 18 Mandrakes Need for help In the release of September Crimson?? In my defense McDonald and Giles Rieflin, Brook, Gassparyan Exposure vote for Projekct One Nuages another KC rippoff Nuages II Thanks for OZ Darryl Hall and John Hall are not the same guy! DGM Collectors King Crimson V1 Origin of LIVE ON BROADWAY performances Dutch Radio: Fripp on 6 September shameless auction plug Mea Culpa re: Popol Vu ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.5b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Wed, 25 Aug, 02:00:00 From: Toby Howard(ET Moderator) Subject: NEWS: Mexico/Microsoft Hi all, just to let you know that I've decided to split off posts regarding the Mexico download/comments re Microsoft into a separate ET, until the current debate has blown over. The next issue of ET (following this issue ASAP) will comprise the latest posts on the latter subject. I hope this is in the interest of readers and thanks to several ETers for their private mail to me suggesting this. Cheers to all Toby ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 15:00:00 -0500 From: Scott Ranalli Subject: Really a KC song? "Nuages (That Which Passes, Passes Like Clouds)" can be found on the Three of a Perfect Pair album, which was the third and last studio album by the 1980s line-up of Crimson. The album is distinguished by a very bright yellow cover, which inspired a very bright yellow bass that Tony Levin had made for the 1984 tour. This tour is captured on the Three of a Perfect Pair - Live in Japan video. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 13:11:27 -0700 From: "Erwin Bush" Subject: Theremim Sighting In ET #607 David Voci said: >There's another current band that uses alot of 70's material to shape their >sound called Monstermagnet that uses something called a 'Theremin' to get >strange electronic sounds... The Theremin is an "ancient" electronic instrument, invented by Leon Theremin in the 1920's (I have a 1927 issue of "Science and Invention" magazine whose cover article is about Leon Theremin and his invention.) It has two electrodes, one vertical, one horizontal, and is played by moving your hands *near* the electrodes to control volume and pitch; the musician never touches the instrument. It was used quite a lot in the 1950's in "B" Science Fiction and mystery films (and some good ones too, like Forbidden Planet.) It's sound is often characterized as the "woo woo" sound. A young Robert Moog supported himself by making and selling Theremins. Now, in his post-Moog Synthesizer days he is selling them again; check out http://www.bigbriar.com/. Kit versions are available for as little as $299. To bring this on topic; to my knowledge King Crimson and/or Mr. Fripp have never used a Theremin in their work. Up until now I have never thought about such a thing. But it could be very interesting.... Cheers, Erwin Bush Livermore, CA ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 22:15:37 +0200 From: Maestro Izyrpo Subject: Re:Really a KC Song? Dear Roberto, YES, "Nuages" is a kind of real KC Song. It appears originally on their album "Three of a perfect pair" and was the last track on the first side of the vinyl release in 1984.Now it is simply a 5th track on CD with aforementioned title. ------------------------------ Date: 18 Aug 99 13:30:09 -0700 From: "David Voci" Subject: Tron/Sabbath Corrections Hello Friends, I would like to offer a few minor adjustments on my last entry(607). Sabbath Keyboarder Geoff Nicholls started his career with BS on the Heaven and Hell Album. As far as Supertzar, the song on Sabotage is concerned, the sound on this song had alot to do with a choir who is credited on the liner notes...Mellotron does not get a credit here so maybe there was one? On Sabbath Bloody Sabbath, there is no real mention of a Mellotron as liner notes reflect that all instruments are played by BS. I always heard those songs in the vein of either Moog or other Synthi devices that created these sounds...this is from memory as I didn't listen to the subject songs mentioned recently. Even though the topic of Mellotron has seen alot of press lately, I would like to agree with someone a few issues back regarding Edgar Froese of Tangerine Dream. This gentleman, along with Franke and Baumann played a host of electronic instruments on their LP's. Froese would play a modified Les Paul Guitar that had a very intriguing sound that fit right in with TD's overall electronic wall of sound. The Mellotron fit in very nicely with TD's analogue layering of sequences and if one is inclined in this genre and lucky enough to be able to find Froese solo stuff, there are some nice examples of the Tron on those(Ages, and Macula Transfer). Just called DGM in Los Angeles and a little upset that the guy told me that for Projeckt 4 box set they are ONLY TAKING ORDERS now, not shipping the set until October...this flies in the face of what I was told a month ago in regards to the LA branch shipping this in August... A true bummer but did find out that price is 40 dollars plus s/h, and tax if you live in Cali. Have a good one now, dv ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 18:15:56 -0400 From: J A Sontag Subject: Re: Really a KC song ???? ("Robert Y. Gray") Yes, it is a King Crimson song from the "3 Of A Perfect Pair" album - Track 5 on the CD, the last song on Side 1 of the LP. J A Sontag >I was scanning through amazon.com today and I came across a listing >for a compilation CD called "A Brief History of Ambient Music" -- The >Music of Changes....Vol. 3. On Disk 2 (Song 5) of the set is a song >titled: Nuages (That Which Passes, Passes Like Clouds) with the artist >being King Crimson. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 16:06:18 PDT From: "Justin Purcell" Subject: keith emerson and asia TO ALL PROG FANS: I have some bad news Due to Geoff Downes and asia having finance probelms they will not be going on their planned reunion tour. Also Ketith Emerson's unoffical site interstellar has colsed down for good. All you will see is a recent interview and also links to a rick wakeman interview and an ozzy osbourne interview. Justin Purcell Purcell_Justin at hotmail dot com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 20:58:55 -0400 From: "Dan B." Subject: Huh?????? (FZ & KC & VU) James Dusewicz wrote in the last ET: "It isn't hard to recognize the Zappa influence on KC. Zappa and the VU were doing pretty nearly the same things. If a coin analogy could be used the VU was heads and Zappa was tails of the same continuum of the genre." Frank Zappa has no relation to the Velvet Underground other than sharing the bill a few times with the Velvet Underground in N.Y.C; and Zappa's put-down of Lou Reed's limited guitar abilities and the VU's basic, predominantly simply-rhythmic, non-accented, three-chord music. (Could the VU's drummer play anything other than the most rudimentary 1-2-3-4 drumbeats anyway?) Zappa's influences are American old R&B (Johnny 'Guitar' Watson), 20th century serial & 'avant garde' classical music (Edgar Varese), modal jazz (Eric Dolphy), the guitar genius of Jimi Hendrix, & world music (Ravi Shankar, etc.). By the late sixties, Zappa basically had 'musical blinders' on and his influences are greatly less apparent, as was his notice of what was going on in the 'Rock' world around him. A KC influence on Frank Zappa was nil. When asked in an interview in the mid-70's referencing various known guitarists, Zappa replied he wasn't familiar with Robert Fripp's work. I'm sure Zappa had heard Crimson, but he didn't acknowledge it in the interview--not much of an influence there. As for an influence of Zappa on King Crimson, well, you'd have to ask Fripp that, but I'm sure the answer would be basically a non-influence. Zappa was much more influenced by rhythm in his compositions (he started on the drums), than Fripp was (is). Zappa loved funky & grooving old R&B songs and one of his trademarks was his use of tuned percussion (marimba, vibes, etc.) in numerous pieces. Fripp is much less influenced by rhythm in his pieces--of course it is an important element--though of much less importance than it was to Zappa. (Obviously, Lark's Tongues II is highly rhythmic or [a-rhythmic if you're a slave of 4/4]). Fripp (being European) is more influenced by the 'four-square' classical European "chamber" tradition, and is known for his love of Bach, & Haydn string quartets as well as the later more rythmically-non-completely-4/4-reliant string quartets of Bartok. Yes, Bruford dabbled on the marimba a bit, but it was usually just in an improvisatory fashion, or very limited, like in Fracture (in Crimson situations anyway). Zappa's music mostly occupies a world of percussion and constantly shifting odd-time accents. Fripp, himself, stated that he started off musically with a very limited sense of rhythm. In fact, I surmise this is why Robert Fripp's guitar 'style' is so unique: he developed this style to work for his particular sense of rhythm, rather than trying to sound like a more 'on the one', straight-ahead rhythmically-oriented guitar player (Allan Holdsworth comes to mind here as well). Also, though a lefty, Fripp plays right-handed, which places a lesser emphasis on the 'funky' strumming stuff: try it with your weaker hand, it's quite awkward. But now visualize those difficult Fripp frettings with your dominant hand. He has developed this technique to great effect, as Easy Money, The Sailor's Tale, Asbury Park, Requiem, etc., can attest. I will say that Robert Fripp has developed an advanced rhythmic conception through hard work and practice: his quick and even picking on Discipline is evidence to that, but it's not like Frank Zappa who intrinsically felt the downbeat of rhythm & blues, and was playing greasy, funky rhythm guitar by his late-teens, having heard this style of dance music growing up. Remember that the '72 touring rhythm section of Boz (& Ian Wallace) would go into a blues rhythm as an encore sometimes to piss and throw Fripp off, as Boz related as the blues was one of the styles of music Fripp was uncomfortable with and couldn't play properly. Zappa could play the blues with his toes. Both men with different styles, different outcomes: but both musically interesting and rewarding in their own pursuits and end results. -- "I don't want to spend my life explaining myself. Either you get it or you don't." -- Frank Zappa ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 20:28:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Tanigawa Subject: RE: Russificated King Crimson >By the way, can anybody explain me what does the "prism ship" means (from >"In the Court of the Crimson King"). I'll be very grateful for the help. My own guess would be that it is Sinfield's version of the then-alive Jim Morrison's "Crystal Ship", a means of temporarily escaping a humdrum existence. But where rock lyrics are concerned, anyone else's interpretation is as good as mine. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 13:23:05 +0700 From: "Dave Lumenta" Subject: Re: INDONESIAN CRIMSON The 'YESS RECORDS' mentioned is a small home-based bootlegging company, established in the city of Bandung, Indonesia in the early 70s. Since vinyl imports here in those times were very expensive for the average music buyer, this company bootlegged vinyls to cassettes at a price between Rp 500,- (mid 70s) to Rp. 3,750 (1988). Considering the exchange rate in 1988 (US$ 1,00 = Rp. 1,600,-), this was very cheap. Since vinyl playing time is not compatible with standard C60 cassettes, the song orders from most albums bootlegged were changed, and spaces were filled up with other works from the same artist. The guy who started this company (he died around 1992) was a huge Yes fan (that explains why he used Bruford's picture on it from the Fragile LP and Roger Dean's plane as his logo), and Yes' Fragile was the first album bootlegged. YESS became known as a specialized bootleg source, covering all items from YES, KING CRIMSON, FLOYD, ELP, BRUFORD, HOLDSWORTH, UK, MIKE OLDFIELD, EBERHARD SCHROEDER, NATIONAL HEALTH etc (there were a total of approx 800 titles released). YESS ceased to exist when Indonesia became a member of the Berne Convention in 1988 and bootlegging was outlawed. I had once visited this guy's home in 1989 and the only Fripp vinyls I saw were the 1980 LoG, Toyah/Fripp's The Lady and The Tiger and Summers/Fripp's I Advance Masked. Perhaps it was taken from these (I haven't heard extensively to these albums yet). Another LP was Fripp's Exposure. OK Dave ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 07:17:55 GMT From: "Rafael Maria Di Liumbard" Subject: Hall & Fripp First I'd like to say that I think it's quite audible that it's Mr. Hall singing on "You burn me up..." but only if you've heard _sacret songs_, which I'll comment later, It bears little or no similarity to Hall & Oates. Which in comparison seemes lika a warm up, or a tune up if you will. _sacret Songs_ is a wery Fripp album, lots of Frippertronics, and lots of interesting mixings. Especially a part where the rythmsection fades out and you hear frippertronics droning for a while then the rythm section reappears for a while. And Mr. Hall gives a new perspective on singing, It sounds fresh and new, even now. I feel strangely enough that it is the evolution of "Exposure" For those of you who haven't bought this record, I strongly suggest that it is time now. Also I'd like to comment on the Frippertronics issue: I do belive that Brian Eno once said that he had traced "Frippertronics" back to some strange record with an Lady singing into the loop. And therefor he should have absolutely no credit for the idea other than providing Mr. Fripp and himself with the oppotunity of making "No Pussyfooting" and et cetera. Anyone heard of this? "Consider thy errors as hidden intent" - Brian Eno Izaac Lassila ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 07:26:37 GMT From: "Rafael Maria Di Liumbard" Subject: Cale & Fripp with Eno But bear in mind that one of Brian Enos "visions" was to Team up Mr. Fripp with some drummer that he was uncompatible with. (forgot his name right now). Anyway Mr. Eno said it was interesting to use incompatible musicians at the same time, same record. So I wouldn't be surprised if Mr. Eno at least tried to get them at the same time... If he succeded or not, we'll never know??? Izaac Lassila ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 14:27:19 +0100 From: Peter Clinch

Subject: Re: ProjeKcts!!?? Ben asked: > I'm familar with one and two, but, I've read about zero,and three? What > are they and where can I purchase them? I *think* it's something like this... P0 was to be soundscapes and drumming, Robert and Bill. But Tony and Trey were about, and got invited along too, resulting in P1, so P0 never actually happened (yet!). Before P1 actually did their stint, P2 "accidentally" arose from what was to be a Krim writing sesh with Robert, Trey and Adrian, improvising and recording "Space Groove" instead. P3 was scheduled to be Pat, Trey and Robert, though once again Tony was free and added to the lienup, thus becoming P4. After P4, the originally planned P3 lineup came together. The upcoming Krim, scheduled as Robert, Pat, Trey and Adrian later this year, have been referred to as "ProjeKCt" (no numeric designator) in a DGM news release, though whether that is just during the rehearsal/preliminary phase before become King Crimson again, I don't know. What with the Seal tour Tony was working on cancelled, it's *possible* that he might be back on board: according to his website his schedule is somewhat up in the air right now. Aside from the P2 Space Groove album there will be a boxed set of 4 (one for each P) live CDs to be released through DGM in October, along with a single disc release "best of" culled from the whole box. At least some of the box contents are available as separate CDs in Japan, if you really can't wait. I believe the next KCCC release is to be a single P4 show (the "main" albums are collections from various concerts), and further KCCC releases may (or may not!) include projeKCt shows. Or something like that... Pete. -- Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net p dot j dot clinch at dundee dot ac dot uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 18:54:02 CEST From: "Macahan The Unifaun" Subject: Welcome me! Hello boys & girls! I'm totally new on this list, since I've more and more gotten into KC the latest weeks or so. Otherwise, Genesis is my first love and has so been for a year or two. However, I've listened to KC since I got a tape with Discipline, b/w "UK" many moons ago. Last week I searched for a good CD, and found Cirkus, which was something along what I was looking for, and it was a reviewers used ex. so it was quite cheap too. Of course I bought it, and of course it blew me apart. Dinosaur roxxx, as well as 24 of the other tunes. So I've suffered from constant repeat Cirkus playings, moving neigbours, broken loudspeakers and smouldering amplifiers. And today I walked into a record store, a bit drunk (had been in business negotiations with a pub owner - was hoping to get some money out of him, but I rather got a lot of beer in me. But it was on the house, so I'm pleased) and found the Epitaph-box marked at a 1CD-price. It probably was a misprint, but greedy me bought it immediately. Mars, Mars, Epitaph, Epitaph, Epitaph, A Man, A City, A Man, A City roxxx, as well as 10 other tracks. The worst critisicm I can come up with at the moment is that the cardboard sleeves are to tight! So, I hope for an ever-lasting Crimson love, and some time on this list. When I don't stagger into record stores I tab some guitar, so if you're nice & gentle, I might write a tab or two or ten for the ET-page. And one other thing: Excatly where on LTIA2 is that Bruford (?) line supposed to be. I guess it ain't on my copy, but I'd like to know the exact time on the CD so I can be sure. /Macahan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 10:13:35 PDT From: "Matt D" Subject: Steve Reich and Crimson Someone mentioned how the intro to Waiting Man resembled parts of the Reich composition Music For 18 Muscians. I would think that this is by design. In Bill Brufords Modern drummer issue (with him and pat on the cover) he metioned that during the 80's Crimson was influenced by Reichs music and style of writing. This is really obvious tomy ears anyway. In the song Frame by Frame I hear reichs technique of Phasing. During the verse when Belew is playing seven, Fripp plays in a meter one eight note less that what Adrian is playing. The guitar parts are out of Phase. Reich first pioneered this technique using two tape machines with identical spoken word parts on each of them. Some interesting stuff to check out. Hope this helps, Matt _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: 19 Aug 99 13:53:21 EDT From: James Dusewicz Subject: Re: "Nuages" The song/instrumental "Nuages(That Which Passes, Passes Like Clouds)" is indeed a King Crimson song. It was made by the eighties quartet and can be found on the last album that group made together in the eighties: THREE OF A PERFECT PAIR(1984). jim campaigner at usa dot net James Dusewicz Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 ------------------------------ Date: 19 Aug 99 14:12:58 EDT From: James Dusewicz Subject: Re: "Thela Hun Ginjeet" I happen to think that the rap by Adrian Belew on "Thela Hun Ginjeet" off of DISCIPLINE is great stuff. Initally that rap by Adrian was what attracted me to the DISCIPLINE album. Without that Belew rap, the song does not work, nor does it carry the resonance it carries on DISCIPLINE. While ABSENT LOVERS is a great snapshot of the dynamics of the eighties quartet band, and I adore the rest of the material on that two CD set, "Thela Hun Ginjeet" without the Belew rap falls flat for me. I would've rather that they have taped the Belew rap seperately and played it while they were performing "Thela Hun Ginjeet" live. It is a wonderful song and the absence of the rap kills it for me. jim campaigner at usa dot net James Dusewicz Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 14:56:21 -0400 From: Craig Clark Subject: "The Night Watch" solo I just took a spin by Dave Gregory's new web site (www.guitargonauts.com), and under "Dave's Faves: 20 Really Great Guitar Solos," he includes Robert Fripp's solo on "The Night Watch." Certainly an idiosyncratic choice. (Then again, Dave includes Paul McCartney's "Check My Machine" on his list of "20 Great B-Sides." *shiver*) I know this has already been answered by a few other people in the last edition, but Daryl Hall is _definitely_ the singer on "You Burn Me Up I'm A Cigarette" (and I also believe that's him providing the piano part in the song -- no one else is credited and he seems the most likely candidate). In fact, it was Hall's work on EXPOSURE that reignited my interest in Hall & Oates music in general (particuarly their late 70s output, which I've always preferred to their more mainstream releases). Also, to Robert Y. Gray: Yes, "Nuages (That Which Passes, Passes Like Clouds)" is, indeed, really a KC song. You can find it on THREE OF A PERFECT PAIR. And it sounds unlike anything else the group has ever done. Craig J. Clark cjclark at earthlink dot net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 15:58:03 -0500 From: nic dot roozeboom at philips dot com Subject: Dutch Radio--Fripp on Sept. 6th Translation from Dutch: An evening with Robert Fripp This year marks King Crimson's 30-year anniversary. Since 1969 the London-founded Crimson King plays a form of idiosyncratic rock music, which combines in an original manner (and long before it became fashionable) influences from jazz, European impro (sic) and 20th century compositional music. Main man in the group - though he would emphatically deny so, since KC is to him not just a group but "a way of doing things" in which the whole constitutes more than the sum of its parts - is master guitarist Robert Fripp. King Crimson's history is topical not just due to the anniversary. After years of legal tug-of-war, Fripp has severed the constricting binds of record label EG on KC and has started his own (sic) record label, Discipline Global Mobile. DGM not only wishes to be a model of conducting business in a manner differentiating itself from the - according to Fripp - deceipt, exploitation and greed in which current music industry finds its foundations. It also represents the opportunity to foster purely artistic motivations for new releases. In the words of DGM: "to bring music into the world which would otherwise be unlikely to do so, or under conditions prejudicial to the music and / or musicians". Since that time, besides records from musicians elected (alt transl: chosen, selected) by Fripp, a considerable number of live recordings from different KC editions have been issued. These underscore not only the unique and groundbreaking character of the group, but also reflect accurately on the development of the band. And that is precisely what we want to do in Supplement tonight and in a second broadcast later this year: follow the development of KC through a conversation with first-hour member Robert Fripp. Bas Andriessen visited the enigmatic musician in his hometown near Salisbury, approximately 100km south-west of London. Tonight's broadcast will feature the period spanning 1969 through 1980. Three King Crimson editions find existence within that period, before Fripp decides, disillusioned by the business, to abandon music and to join a community whose purpose it is to strive to bring into practice the ideas of Russian mystic Gurdjieff and adept JG Bennett. A jaded Fripp afterwards relocates to New York, yet without the vision how his future will unfold. Finally Fripp returns to music by invitations from among others David Bowie and Talking Heads, to contribute to their records as guitarist, and in 1979 makes his first solo record "Exposure". In 1980/1981 where we pick up in a future broadcast, a new edition of King Crimson became a fact. Fripp's perspective on making music by then has radically changed. Where until 1981 he adheres to the conventional (Western) idea that the musician produces music, afterwards his entire work will be based on the understanding that music plays the musicians, and that the players are "merely" a medium. But, as said, more on this later this year. In both broadcasts the majority of the music will consist of live recordings. Because King Crimson first and foremost always is and was a live band. Fripp described this in 1991 as follows: "Studio and live are two worlds. Would you, the audience, prefer to have a love letter or a hot date? Each have their value. Crimson were always the band for a hot date. From time to time they could write a love letter too, but for me they were better in the clinches. Sometimes it's like anels descending from the clouds on chariots of fire, blowing trumpets of gold in your ear. Baby Blue, I was there." Supplement tonight is made by Bas Andriessen, Co de Kloet and Vera Vingerhoeds. End of translation. Your humble translator, Nic ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 16:17:13 -0500 From: Craig Shropshire Subject: Re: Elephant Talk #607 CB used a `tron Capt Beefheart even used the things. Check out his unique application of `tron on "Making Love to a Vampire, With a Monkey on My Knee" from DOC AT THE RADAR STATION & the new box set GROW FINS (which features the not so nice Capt torturing one live). -Craig ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 08:28:15 +0200 (GMT+02:00) From: Jury Alexander Jania Subject: Mellotron You can also find some Mellotron used on "Breaking the girl" by the Red Hot Chili Peppers and also on the "Mellon Collie..."-album by Smashing Pumpkins and ...yes, well... I guess, with the use of some flute-like sounds, on Madonna's "Beautiful Stranger". Greetings from Cologne, Jury ___________________________________________________________ http://www.firemail.de - Ihr Briefkasten im Web. Einfach, schnell, sicher. Neu! Jetzt auch mit kostenlosem Fax-Empfang und Voicemail! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 03:37:03 -0400 (EDT) From: david vella Subject: Nuage Music for 18 Mandrakes Greetings Fellow Crimsomaniacs, Two or three points from the last issue of ET: Item 1: > I came across a listing for a compilation CD called "A Brief > History of Ambient Music" -- The Music of Changes....Vol. 3. > On Disk 2 (Song 5) of the set is a song titled: Nuages (That > Which Passes, Passes Like Clouds) with the artist being King > Crimson. I was just curious what this song might be. > (Could it be a ProjeKCts song ?) I've never heard this song mentioned > anywhere in any capacity relating to Crimson. No, it is not a ProjeKCt song, but a Crimsong from the 1984 release 'Three of a Perfect Pair'. But the real question should be 'how is this song title pronounced'? Is 'Nuages' an actual word in some language (is it French for 'clouds', for example?), or is it to be pronounced "new-ages", suggesting some sort of double meaning or poke at 'new age' music? Item 2: > Does anyone have a copy of Mandrake Memorial's album from the early > seventies? I REALLY want to get a copy of it. It featured Craig > Anderton on guitar. Craig wrote the Electronic Projects for > Musicians books which show how to make your own stomp boxes and > guitar mods, etc. Well, now, here is a subject dear to my heart. Mandrake Memorial is a band hailing from Philadelphia which existed circa 1968 - 1970. I suggest them as an interesting listen for anyone who hasn't heard them. During their brief career they put out three albums - the first was simply titled "Mandrake Memorial" (released 1968), the second was "Medium" (released early in 1969), and the third was "Puzzle" (released late in 1969). They started work on a fourth album but disbanded before it was completed - one song scheduled to be on the fourth album (and was released as a single) was a cover of Thunderclap Newman's 'Something in the Air'. Of the three albums, the third was by far the most ambitious, containing lots of grandiose classical themes, but also very innovative in other ways. The cover art was a reproduction of a famous print by M. C. Escher (curious snail-like creatures called 'roll-ups' marching around in one of his impossible buildings - While Escher isn't my favorite artist, the cover seemed to go quite well with the music on the album.) The first album starts off with a song called 'Bird Journey', which reminds me (the theme - not the music) of the 'Birdman Suite' on the MacDonald & Giles album. This is probably only a coincidence, but I mention it because the Mandrakes recorded the third album in England, only a few months after the birth of Crimson and probably roughly the same time that ITCOTKC was recorded. I always wondered if Sinfield and/or other Crimsonites might have come across the Mandrakes while they were abroad. Indeed, it seems to me that Craig Anderton & our Venal Leader might have hit it off well, given their shared interest in technical innovations of the electric guitar. I believe that today Craig is employed by Peavey Amps, Inc. Anyway, I assume that the poster who requested the "Mandrake Memorial album from the early seventies" is most likely referring to "Puzzle", the third album from 1969. This band deserved to be more well-known than they were. Anyone interested in hearing them will be pleased to learn that all three of their albums are now available (since 1996) on CD. The single (and the B-side) which were to be part of the fourth album have been included as bonus tracks on "Puzzle". (They don't fit with the theme of the rest of the album at all, but at least now their entire recorded output is available. All three of the albums are good, but if you want only one, treat yourself to "Puzzle".) Here is the address of the company where I found them: Collectables Records Corp. Box 35 Narberth, PA 19072 Sorry to go on for so long about the Mandrakes, but I was pleased to see them come up as a topic in ET! Item 3: > Recently got into Steve Reich's "Music for 18 Musicians", and > couldn't help noticing the resemblance between parts of that work > and the intro to "Waiting Man" from "Beat" -- is this coincidental > or by design? Well, I just listened to "Music for 18 Musicians", and while I love that work, I can't say I'm convinced of the resemblance. Guess I'll have to give it another listen - maybe my attention slipped.... Let me close with two queries - For the person who is absolutely enthralled with "Music for 18 Musicians" (but who is only lukewarm on the Steve Reich/Pat Metheney collaboration "Different Trains"), what else by Steve Reich would make a good listen? And, Terry Riley has been a recent topic on ET - Does anyone know if any of his work is available on CD and where? If not, does anyone have copies they might be willing to tape for me? (I've only heard "Rainbow on Curved Air" before.) Private responses to me at dvella at skidmore dot edu Thanks, now it's back to lurk-mode and an attempt to download the Mexico City show..... - David ==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==* David C. Vella Office: Harder Hall 219 Associate Professor of Mathematics 518-580-5291 Skidmore College dvella at skidmore dot edu Saratoga Springs, NY 12866 Home: 518-587-5363 web-page: http://www.skidmore.edu/~dvella/dcvbio1.htm ==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==* `I prove a theorem and the house expands, the windows jerk free to hover near the ceiling, the ceiling floats away with a sigh.' -Rita Dove US Poet Laureate (1993) 'The defining function of an artist is to cherish consciousness' -Max Eastman ==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==* ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 14:34:31 +0400 (MSD) From: "Roman Sklyarov" Subject: Need for help Hello, dear ETers! Thank you very much for the answer on my first letter. For my book "The Russificated King Crimson" I need some more information. Transcribe me, please, the first four linees of the first verse and the first line of the second verse of "The Court of the Crimson King"' version found on Disc One of the live album "Epitaph" (the version begins with: "The Earth is captive to the Moon"). I am interested also in the lyrics of "Drop In" (who is the poet?) and Donovan's "Get Thy Bearings". Who is the owner of the rights and who have published them? Best regards Vladimir Kalnitsky asu at roadcommittee dot spb dot su ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:49:54 CEST From: "Macahan The Unifaun" Subject: In the release of September Crimson?? Hi! I saw in my paper some weeks ago that In the Court of the Crimson King is to be released in September. That's all the info there was. Perhaps it's old news, but I wonder if it's a re-remastered re-release, a single (like they did with 21thCSM) or yet a live album or what. /Macahan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 15:54:10 -0400 (EDT) From: pellegrini dot 1 at osu dot edu (Catherine Pellegrini) Subject: In my defense to Jim Mcglaughlin. #1. I was not quoting Robert Fripp when I said you have to live up to expectations of fans. This was MY opinion. I feel that bands should live up to expectations of fans. #2. to Nomad. You have a right to express your opinion of what music should and shouldn't be played by KC. I happen to like the '72-'74 era. That particular segment happens to be special to me and alot of other KC fans. So if you appreciate the current music more. Fine. Don't tear my opinions down just as I wouldn't tear yours down. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:04:32 -0700 From: Chris Petty Subject: McDonald and Giles Hi, Ian McDonald and Michael Giles put out an album called McDonald and Giles, and I'd love to get it on CD. Is it out? Does anyone know anything about it? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:49:51 -0400 From: "Cambra, Robert" Subject: Rieflin, Brook, Gassparyan Dear ET readers, Those who live in wait for the next opportunity to hear Fripp spray dissonant, angular, burning guitar around the room would, I think, do well to pick up Bill Rieflin's new "Birth of a Giant" disc. Trey Gunn and Steve Ball are among the other players on this nice 'n' moody album, which even has a couple of killer pop songs on it (well, I'd call them pop songs). This is one of those very few albums I can't resist playing several times a day for weeks on end. Also, I'm sure many on this list would be interested to know that Michael Brook is touring with Armenian duduk player Djvan Gassparyan (the duduk is an apricot wood wind instrument). I saw their performance at The Great American Music Hall in San Francisco recently as a four piece band and it was pretty damn wonderful. I went to this show because it was a rare opportunity to see Brook, an unusual and gracious guitarist known for many things, here, perhaps mostly as a member of the Sylvian/Fripp band; but it also turned out to be an introduction to Gasparyan and a music I'd never heard before. They have a new album on Real World I'm looking forward to hearing. And I'm wondering, is there a US source for the charity disc on which Fripp contributes a soundscape? Robert ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 15:42:54 -0600 From: "Mary Rogers" Subject: Exposure > I just bought Exposure last week and am truly in love with it... > ... it listed Daryl Hall as the vocalist on "You Burn Me Up I'm > a Cigarette". Maybe I'm not stretching my ear enough, but the > vocal really doesn't sound like his voice at all. Anyone have > any thoughts on this? Yes it's Daryl, rocking out for a change. The re-release of his Fripp-produced "Sacred Songs" includes as bonus tracks "You Burn Me Up I'm a Cigarette" and "Northstar" from "Exposure." Bill JaKcobson ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 21:12:46 -0400 From: Martin Gebhard Subject: vote for Projekct One ProjeKCt One "Live at the Jazz Cafe" arrived today (Japan import): Incredible! Hear the power and inspiaration of this four musicians (RF, BB, TL, TG). It is more interesting than the "clean" sounding of Projekct Two, which I like also. But: Please Mr. Fripp, be careful with such professional musicians like BB... Can't wait to hear Projekct Four. Is here in Germany anybody, who is interested in KC, RF &! "der Vierte Weg"? Let me know. Greetings from Stuttgart, Germany. Martin. MartinGebhard at compuserve dot com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 02:50:41 EDT From: Hocow at aol dot com Subject: Nuages Robert Grey asked about Nuages (that which passes as clouds). If I remember correctly it was the flip side of the single "Sleepless." As a matter of fact I don't currently have a copy of Three of a Perfect Pair where I can check it out, but if you hadn't found the title to be a rarity, I could have sworn it was the last track on side one of the LP. It has a repetitous line that is percussion and bass or a synthesized bass part (an odd texture even for Tony) with guitar solos over the top. There are a few bars of one of the pieces on Thrackattack that are very similar. I'm sorry but I couldn't say which track. All in all I'd call Nuages a sub par outing for KC but it would be one of someone else's outstanding cuts. I hope this was helpful and I'm really dredging the bottom of the memory cells for this so I can't guarantee the accuracy. Brad Wilmot ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 13:37:19 -0400 (EDT) From: pellegrini dot 1 at osu dot edu (Catherine Pellegrini) Subject: another KC rippoff While watching the movie BATMAN on Saturday, I realized that Danny Elfman also ripped off a King Crimson piece. This time it was Larks Toungue in Aspic part 1. Right at the part where Jack Nicholson is in the toxic plant and is on the catwalk on the corridor(before he gets thrown into the toxic waste) there is the exact violin solo that David Cross is playing on the repetitive stratto in Larks toungue part 1. You know, how the piece first begins. If anyone doesn't believe me, I encourage you to watch Batman again and you'll see what I mean. Not that Elfman hasn't ripped off of anybody elses music. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 10:20:53 EDT From: Hocow at aol dot com Subject: Nuages II Hi gang, Just checked the ET resources like I should have before I wrote the first time (hey, it was 2am). Nuages was on Three of a Perfect Pair. Out. Brad Wilmot ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 10:12:24 -0500 From: Don Lawrence Subject: Thanks for OZ I enjoyed the Ozric Tentacles disc "waterfall". Thanks to those individuals who suggested it. They definitely have a sound that seems influenced by Fripp/Crimson. I couldn't help but hear the similarity to some Brand X from the 70's! I have read elephant talk for years. It is always good to find new artists recommended by other Fripp/Crimson enthusiasts! Thanks Don ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 18:08:42 -0500 From: "Tracy Family" Subject: Darryl Hall and John Hall are not the same guy! Hi folks, In regards to the post from Biffy the elephant shrew's posting regarding "Daryl Halls" album Sacred Songs. It's not Daryl Hall, but John Hall from the band Orleans. There is a link to his web page through Tony Levins web sight. This may be the reason the "Voices" (pun intended) don't seem to match up. I thought I had seen the singers being confused for each other on ET before so I thought I would make a short post. -CTracy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:04:27 +0100 From: lk Subject: DGM Collectors King Crimson V1 Hi. What is "DGM Collectors King Crimson V.1" for $90,99 by CDNOW ? CDNOW writes: "Very limited 3 CD japanese only collection in book case", the tracklist includes 17 titels, 21stcsm 2 times: 1. 21st Century Schizoid Man 2. Drop In 3. I Talk To The Wind 4. Eptaph 5. Travel Weary Capricorn 6. Improv 7. Mars 8. Trees (Live) 9. Pictures Of The City 10.Cirkus 12.Formentera Lady 13.Sailor's Tale 14.21st Century Schizoid Man 15.Improv: Rich Tapestory Of 16.Exiles 17.Lark's Tongues In Aspic ( After "(" the tracklist finished. Has anyone information about these CDs? Lothar ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 0:18:08 -0400 From: Andy Acunzo Subject: Origin of LIVE ON BROADWAY performances Hello ETers, I recently received Collector's Club Nos. 5&6, LIVE ON BROADWAY. It's a great set and has been tickling and tormenting my ears ever since. However, as a fan who attended one of those Longacre shows (is it really almost four years ago? Hard to believe...), I was somewhat bummed that Fripp didn't specify which songs were taken from which nights. And of course I was especially curious which tunes were from the show I saw! So in absence of such official info from the Club, I've done what I can to solve some of the mystery. I posess a...memory, yeah, that's it...:) of the show I attended - night two, 11/21/95. So I went and compared the content of the CDs with my "memory" of that night. (It gets rather detailed from here on out, so don't say I didn't warn you.) Based on my observations, the following songs on LIVE ON BROADWAY appear to originate from the 11/21/95 show: Conundrum, Frame By Frame, B'BOOM, THRAK, Neurotica, One Time, part of Indiscipline, Improv: Two Sticks, Elephant Talk. This isn't necessarily all correct, but this is how I see it. I'm positive about B'BOOM and THRAK, as these pieces are very different each time they're played, and they match 11/21 exactly. At the other end of the "certainty spectrum" are The Talking Drum and Three of a Perfect Pair, which definitely do NOT originate from the 11/21 show, as they were not performed that night. :) And since THRAK matches, Fearless and Highly THRaKked is definitely taken from another night. I'm not totally certain about the other songs, especially after the discovery I made with Indiscipline: i.e., it is a composite of more than one performance of the song. The intro Bruford soloing and a good chunk of the song do not match the 11/21 show, but the last minute or two seem to be an exact match. This leads me to believe that such editing may have taken place elsewhere in the set as well, although this is the only spot where I noticed it. On the official release, Elephant Talk is missing the nifty extra ending which the band played about five seconds after the song first ended. I thought it would have been cool to include it, as it was pretty funny and something different. Oh well. These are my findings, brothers and sisters in Crim. Now can anyone else with "memories" of these shows offer comments, criticism, controversy on what I've presented here, or what songs originate from any of the other nights? It's not the most pressing matter in the world, but if the band won't release the info it makes a neat puzzle for those so inclined. :) Andy Acunzo aacunzo at sbchem dot sunysb dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 23:37:02 +0200 From: "Ashworths" Subject: Dutch Radio: Fripp on 6 September Rick Snow asked for a translation of a Dutch press notice. My good friend Andre Batenburg has come up with the following. Much better than my own pathetic attempt, I can tell you! Tune in of the 6th guys. Pat Ashworth ashie at euronet dot nl Supplement VPRO Radio The Netherlands Monday 6 September: 2000-2400 local time info: http://www.omroep.nl/nps/radio/supplement/framesets/frameset_stemaf.htm webradio link: http://www.omroep.nl/nps/webradio This year King Crimson celebrate their 30th anniversary. Since 1969 the band has played an independent kind of rock music, incorporating jazz, European impro and 20th century music in an original manner and long before it became the trend. The group's main man - although he will emphatically deny it himself, as to him KC is not just a group, it's a way of doing things with the total being more than the sum of its constituent parts - is master guitarist Robert Fripp. KC's history is important not just because of their anniversary. After years of legal suits Fripp has cut off the suffocating ties with the group's label of many years, EG Records, and has started his own, Discipline Global Mobile. DGM not only wants to be a model for doing business in a different way to the music industry which is based on deceit, exploitation and greed, it also gives groups the opportunity to apply merely artistic criteria to new releases. In DGM's own words, 'to bring music into the world which would otherwise be unlikely to do so, or under conditions prejudicial to the music and/or musicians.' Since then a considerable number of live recordings of various KC editions have been released as well as records by other musicians hand-picked by Fripp. Not only do they underline the group's unique and innovative nature, they also make it possible to reflect in detail on the band's history. And that is exactly what we are going to do in Supplement tonight and later in a second programme: follow KC's development on the basis of an interview with Robert Fripp. Bas Andriessen visited the enigmatic musician in his house near Salisbury. Tonight's programme will cover the years 1969-80. Three editions of KC came out in that period, before Fripp, disillusioned by business in 1974 decided to leave music behind for good and join a community which tried to put into practice the ideas of Russian mysticist Gurdjieff and his adept J G Bennett. Completely cleansed, Fripp then moved to New York, without any idea on what the future would bring. Eventually Fripp returned to music at the invitation of, among others, David Bowie and Talking Heads, who asked them to play the guitar on their albums, and made his first solo album 'Exposure' in 1979. When our second programme continues in 1980/81, a new edition of KC is a fact. Fripp's ideas on making music have by then changed radically. Whereas (like most Western musicians), he thought until 1981 that it is the musician who makes the music, thereafter his complete work is based on the view that music influences the musician and the performers are merely a 'medium'. More on this later in the year. In both programmes the bulk of the music will consist of live recordings. For above all KC was and is a live band. In 1991 Fripp described it as follows: 'Studio and live are two worlds. Would you, the audience, prefer to have a love letter or a hot date? Each have their value. Crimson were always the band for a hot date. From time to time they could write a love letter too, but for me they were better in the clinches. Sometimes it's like angels descending from the clouds on chariots of fire, blowing trumpets of gold in your ear. Baby Blue, I was there.' Supplement will be made by Bas Andriessen, Co de Kloet and Vera Vingerhoeds. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 19:31:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael St Clair Subject: shameless auction plug Well, I kind of hate to do this. I'm an unapologetic capitalist, but I know some people here might feel auction posts hurt the s/n ratio. But, it's allowed, and my wife and I are saving up and buying a house and a few treasures must go, and I've got to get the best price I can. I've got the 2 part (both parts!) of the Sylvian/Fripp 'Jean the Birdman' CD single up for auction. I also have the import laserdisc of King Crimson's 'Live in Japan 1995' on the block. Both can be found through this link: http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=mcmick Thanks for your patience. Michael St. Clair ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 19:45:33 -0400 From: Jim Bailey Subject: Mea Culpa re: Popol Vu Just testing to see who's awake. ;-) Actually, not. Thanks to all those folks who caught my error. It's been a long time since I listened to those albums, and I guess memory has faded - or shifted - over the years. Perhaps I was thinking of something else and got names mixed up. Just goes to show, you can't trust memory. Anyway, to add another name to the Mellotron-users list: Harmonium. They were a band from Quebec (at least I think they're no longer around as such), and produced some great stuff. Rather folk/pop oriented, but with grander visions. Their double disc "l'heptade" is an excellent extended work. The keyboard player, Serge Locat also put out a solo album, "Transfert," but I don't know if it's on CD yet. Lots of ol' Mel on there, too. 'BFN Jim Bailey ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #608 ********************************