Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #607 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 607 Wednesday, 18 August 1999 Today's Topics: NEWS: Live in Mexico City available for download from DGM NEWS: A response from DGM to those who query DGMlive's involvement with sound scapes Really a KC song ???? ProjeKcts!!?? re: The Devil's Triangle Future KC - no candy? Snore... Re: Devils Triangle - The Movie (ET #606) Mandrake Memorial the new deleted UK live CD re: King Velvets re: You Burn Me Up Re: Japanese video Exposure Re: Song References..KC/Zappa Indonesian Crimson (?) Fan expectations? Fripp and an Odd Film Absent Lovers Cale and Fripp Correction: Golden Hours CC #5-6 On Broadway review Playstation/Youth RE: mellotron usage during mid 70's Norbert Fragg: Happy at Last! RE: Devils Triangle - The Movie RF and John Cale Mellotron "I Talk to the Wind" melody B.L.U.E. 4-18-98 Knitting Factory Re: Playing Old songs in concert Dutch Radio--Fripp on Sept. 6th Russificated King Crimson King Crimson in Germany 1973 Attention Brazilian ETers! Mellotron Spotted in Soundgarden Mexico City download - you just can't please everyone all of the time Miscellaneous Thoughts Showcasing the Chapman Stick downloading the Window Media DGM bootleg crimson tributes request ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.5b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 14:12:27 EDT From: DanKirkd at aol dot com Subject: NEWS: Live in Mexico City available for download from DGM BIG NEWS!! KING CRIMSON LIVE IN MEXICO CITY DOWNLOAD!! All Disciplinarians(!) who have been awaiting the release of King Crimson Live in Mexico City can now download it from the DGM website at http://license.keyconnect.com/wm/dgm/. Go there today! It's free for a limited time only and will not be available in any other format. DGM has entered into a strategic relationship with Microsoft to launch BootlegTV.com, which starting November will offer concerts online on a pay per view basis. All the new KC shows, plus archives, will be available for download. Full news about BootlegTV.com can be found at the above URL, and in the press release at http://www.disciplineglobalmobile.com/dgmlive/press.html. -- Dan Kirkdorffer On behalf of DGM - Enjoy! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 12:55:28 EDT From: DanKirkd at aol dot com Subject: NEWS: A response from DGM to those who query DGMlive's involvement with Here is a message from David S. at DGM - Dan ########## A response to those who query DGMlive's involvement with Microsoft. The launch of DGMlive is announced as a "strategic relationship" with Microsoft. It is not a business partnership. DGMlive remains an independent company, in which Microsoft neither has nor has requested any holdings. Our relationship is simply that we have undertaken to use Microsoft technology, because it is the best currently available. It is our understanding that before the end of the year the Media 4.0 technology will work on all platforms. It is currently the best system for our purposes both in terms of audio quality and the Digital Rights Management system, which will ensure that the artists are properly rewarded for their work. Those who question the fact that we are using a music delivery system developed by a large multi national, should look at the current music carriers, CD and cassette. Both of these were developed and licensed ( if my memory serves me correctly ) by Phillips, yet another large multinational. Yet no one questions our use of these technologies. The key issue is not the content carrier ( whether it be CD or Media 4.0 ), but the ownership of the content itself. Copyright in the music resides, as always, with the artist. Microsoft, unlike their competitors, were willing to put time and energy into helping launch this project. They also have developed a technology that we will enable us to offer fans a whole range of music that would otherwise rot away in the archives. Our relationship with Microsoft is entirely non contractual , and beneficial to all those involved, including the fans. David Singleton 18 Aug 1999. ######### ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 21:20:37 +0200 From: David Restrepo Subject: sound scapes I have to say that the soundscapes are the best means to relax, read, do the dishes, tidy up the house and above all to seek inspiration. Mr. Fripp has given us a treasure of immesurable grandiosity. The more I listen to Fripp & the Crimson related music the more I like it. Mr. Fripp has given us more than we could ever imagine. I started to listen to Crimson at the end of the 70's with that oustanding compilation of the young persons guide to king crimson and ever since I've been struggling to get articles, records, CD's and pirate recordings. But this avalanche of Crimson music and information about Mr.Fripp & Crimson that we're experiencing at the end of this decade is nothing that I would have ever imagined before. This is a dream come through. Thanks to Mr. Fripp & the whole team at Discipline mobile and Elephant Talk. David Restrepo. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 16:28:21 -0400 From: "Robert Y. Gray" Subject: Really a KC song ???? I was scanning through amazon.com today and I came across a listing for a compilation CD called "A Brief History of Ambient Music" -- The Music of Changes....Vol. 3. On Disk 2 (Song 5) of the set is a song titled: Nuages (That Which Passes, Passes Like Clouds) with the artist being King Crimson. I was just curious what this song might be. (Could it be a ProjeKCts song ?) I've never heard this song mentioned anywhere in any capacity relating to Crimson. It could be a mistype on amazon.com's part but there are other songs on the CD credited specifically to Robert Fripp and Sylvan so it doesn't seem likely that it is a mistake. If anyone knows anything please just post your answers to the newsletter. Thanks. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 18:31:37 -0400 From: Donna Beane Subject: ProjeKcts!!?? Hello, My name is Ben Burton and I'm a Crimson fan! I am currently a member of the DMG club and I have a question. Please forgive my ignorance, but, could you explain what the different projeKcts are? I'm familar with one and two, but, I've read about zero,and three? What are they and where can I purchase them? Also I have three videos from the "80's" & "90's" is there anyway of getting footage of older Crimson? Thankyou for your time. Sincerely, Ben Burton ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 16:02:40 -0700 From: "Jon Green" Subject: re: The Devil's Triangle Jacek Czajka wrote: >"Devil's Triangle, The (1974) >Cast Vincent Price .... Narrator (voice) >Original music by Robert Fripp (as King Crimson) " >Has anyone seen this movie? I saw this at a drive-in movie theater probably in 1974-75. It is a very poor documentary meant to cash in on, then current, interest in the Bermuda Triangle. It probably shared the bill with a horror movie or two (one of those American International productions, no doubt). Already being a devout King Crimson fan, I began watching the film very intently when KC's music appeared, in the belief that it probably indicated a unique and high quality production. I was wrong. I don't remember Vincent Price's narration but I do remember KC's Devil Triangle accompanying endless shots of swimming fish (possibly in an aquarium). Not an ounce of imagination or effort went into the production of this film which even skimps on the expected stock footage of boats and airplanes. Also, The Devil's Triangle is the only music used in the film, so the above cite would be more accurate if it read "Original music by Gustav Holst". I would not expect to see this dismal excuse for a documentary re-released but it might be a good candidate for Mystery Science Theater 3000. Jon Green Promenade the Puzzle: The Poetic Vision of Peter Sinfield http://www.interx.net/~jgreen/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 23:20:43 -0500 From: John Barnas Subject: Future KC - no candy? With the recent discussion about Adrian's beatlesque vocals on Thrak, and more of the ongoing chit chat about Heartbeat I thought I'd pipe in with some of my own mindpoop. I like Adrian's voice and love everything on Discipline. I've always sorta cringed about the "talk" on Thela Hun Gingeet. It's time to face reality. KC is never gonna get a "commercial hit" with Adrian's vocals. My feeling is that is what was attempted with "Dinosaur" and maybe "People". I can live with all of Adrian's KC vocals. I love his vocal on Matte Kudasai and Walking on Air. But it's time to take the leap. Robert hinted at a direction toward electronica. This told me that although the fractals were creating new sounds, Robert understands that the product may remain uniquely Crimson, but maybe he could turn on some yout's out there and sell alot of units. Yes you read it: uniquely, yout's and units. What the heck am I getting at? Here it is. Adrian's vocals, in the style he has formerly presented, should no longer be a part of King Crimson. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. Any Adrian vocals (of the same style(s)) in the future will sound like rehash. It's over. I love Adrian's solo stuff and he is a very warm personal guy. Revelation was stirring during the ProjeKcts but broke through when I listened to Bill Rieflin's Birth of a Giant. Seriously, if this CD was titled King Crimson, Birth of a Giant I would have been pleased to find a place for it in KC evolution. Call me crazy. Ask me what I'm smokin'. But the Rieflin stuff, (with Bob and Trey on there, if you didn't know) fits between Thrak and now, with ProjeKct elements woven in. And I like Bill's vocals. They "fit" the music. I'm not saying that KC should strive at a commercial hit. I'm not saying Bill should sing for KC. But you all know where we are standing. We know that Robert is working on the next "period". There are alot of thirsty ears out there besides us Crimsonics. I believe the next Crimson could very well be freaky enough for many, many new ears to dig, and damn it, it should be! (dare I say, "better be" ?) I love you Adrian but let your guitar (and V-drums) sing. - discuss- JB ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 22:12:16 PDT From: "Nomad Stem" Subject: Snore... In ET #606 Jesse (aka Catherine) Pellegrini wrote: "How come the KC never plays any old hits. I just want to know. I saw them in concert last May and they won't play any. Not even Red." This followed a lament (pun intended) about the 72-74 band not using the Mellotron much. Seems like Jesse, like many others here, is so stuck in the past that he can't even differentiate the last time they saw the band from the present ("last May"). Come on folks. King Crimson is moving ahead with a promised new incarnation building off of 2 years of ProjeKct R&D, and rather than discuss issues about the present, we continue to wallow in the past about things no one can do anything about anyway. If the 72-74 band didn't use the Mellotron much (which is up for debate given Cross and Fripp played the Mellotron live) so what? It saddens me that so many more interesting topics of discussion continue to be ignored. I recognize many here are discovering the older releases for the first time, but please remember when these came out (25 years ago and more), and spare us the analysis of how this or that should have happened, and try to focus on the present. Otherwise it will all pass us by. Nomad ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 02:50:33 -0500 From: tonyola Subject: Re: Devils Triangle - The Movie (ET #606) [Badly formed multipart message, contents not processed] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 07:05:36 -0400 From: "Joseph A. Popp" Subject: Mandrake Memorial Does anyone have a copy of Mandrake Memorial's album from the early seventies? I REALLY want to get a copy of it. It featured Craig Anderton on guitar. Craig wrote the Electronic Projects for Musicians books which show how to make your own stomp boxes and guitar mods, etc. Please reply to Poppdodson at compuserve dot com. I'd be happy to trade cassettes. I've got a boot of KC live at the Greek Theatre Berkeley CA from the Beat tour. (Don't tell Robert) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 09:37:23 -0400 From: "Jay Tracy" Subject: the new deleted UK live CD For those who have missed the boat on finding the newly released/deleted U.K. live CD (1978, w/ Bruford), there is one now on eBay. Auction #146395332 http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=146395332 jay ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 10:14:02 EDT From: Biffyshrew at aol dot com Subject: re: King Velvets Michael Flaherty wrote: >By the way, Cale and Fripp have never played on the same track (anywhere) Check the credits for "Golden Hours" on _Another Green World_. Your pal, Biffy the Elephant Shrew ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 11:04:03 EDT From: Biffyshrew at aol dot com Subject: re: You Burn Me Up flori at vt dot edu wrote: >I was looking at the Exposure >pages for a track by track listing, and it listed Daryl Hall as the >vocalist on "You Burn Me Up I'm a Cigarette". Maybe I'm not >stretching my ear enough, but the vocal really doesn't sound like >his voice at all. Anyone have any thoughts on this? The vocal on "You Burn Me Up" certainly doesn't sound like any of the Hall & Oates hits I've (reluctantly) heard over the years, but it is very much of a piece with the sound of Hall's Fripp-produced solo album, _Sacred Songs_. In fact, the recent CD reissue of _Sacred Songs_ includes "You Burn Me Up" and Hall's other track from _Exposure_, "North Star," as bonus tracks. (It strikes me as odd to include recordings that are readily available elsewhere as bonus tracks, but like the man said, "Whaddya want for nothin'...a rubber biscuit?") Fripp's production style throughout the album involves treating Hall's voice with massive amounts of reverb, and while the results don't sound at all like Hall & Oates, I'm frequently reminded of Todd Rundgren--must be a Philly thang. Any Fripp/Crimso fans wondering whether _Sacred Songs_ is worth picking up should be advised that Fripp is all over it, and while it's primarily a rock 'n' roll album, its ties to _Exposure_ are strong and obvious. Your pal, Biffy the Elephant Shrew ------------------------------ Date: 14 Aug 99 07:26:24 +0000 From: "Kim Fyson" Subject: Re: Japanese video In reply to Christin Skinna's defence of the Live in Japan video I have to say that I too am a "video artist" and there can be no artistic justification (however avante-garde or strange your taste) for what was simply a very badly made video. Budget doesn't come into it, nor does artist style. It was just inept. -------- Kim Fyson VIDEO CULTURE Cambridge England 14-Aug-99 07:21:23 Tel: 01223 313126 Mobile: 0403 619270 Web Site: http://www.vidcul.u-net.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 13:14:14 -0400 From: "Darin G" Subject: Exposure Yes, that really is Daryl Hall on Exposure. If you love that one you may want to get Daryl's solo release from 1977, produced and played on by Fripp, and just released on cd. Speaking of Exposure, does anyone know if it will be remastered again also? DG ------------------------------ Date: 14 Aug 99 13:33:32 EDT From: James Dusewicz Subject: Re: Song References..KC/Zappa Perhaps my prior posts on the inclusion of snippets of songs within songs was misunderstood. On ITWOP a snippet of ITCOTCK(directly off the vinyl copy) is inserted in "The Devil's triange"; as is a snippet of "The Sounds of Silence" in Simon & Garfunkle's "Save The Life Of My Child" off of their BOOKENDS album. These snippets are directly from the vinyl(you can hear the clicks & pops of ITCOTCK reference. While FZ does do a lot of recycling of musical ideas "The Adventures Of Greggary Peckkery" comes to mind, they are played real time and are an organic part of those songs. Or they are retitled: see "Holiday In Berlin" on LUMPY GRAVY as "The Semi-Fraudulent Hollywood Overture" on 200 MOTELS. There are many more that are part of FZ's Conceptual Continuity theme. The above insertions in the first paragraph I consider in-organic and detract from the song's listening pleasure. As for VU influence on KC? Yes the VU influenced an awful lot of bands and their genre is related to the genre KC operates in. It isn't hard to recognize the Zappa influence on KC. Zappa and the VU were doing pretty nearly the same things. If a coin analogy could be used the VU was heads and Zappa was tails of the same continuum of the genre. Of course by the time of LOADED, Fripp had matured into his own style, but listen to THE VELVET UNDERGROUND AND NICO and WHITE LIGHT/WHITE HEAT and tell me that the song constructions had no affect on RF. jim campaigner at usa dot net James Dusewicz ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 13:52:30 -0700 From: "Joseph Carona" Subject: Indonesian Crimson (?) Well, folks this is actually my first post (although I've been enjoying the discussions for a while now). I'm a long time fan of Crimson, but relatively new to Fripp's solo releases. My question is about an unusual tape I came across about ten years ago. A friend of mine came back from a trip to Indonesia, with an import cassette for me. The rtape is the Indonesian release of Discipline (released on the "Yess" Records label of Indonesia). Oddly enough "Yess Records" logo is a mirror image silouette of Brufor behind his kit (circa 1971 with Yes - weird). Anyway, the cassette contains the Discipline album (albeit with a resequenced track order, and six bonus tracks.) Here's where it gets curious... The bonus tracks include "Inductive Resonance" and several tracks from the League of Gentlemen album. The other two are quite puzzling to me, I have long wondered if they are available on any other Fripp or Crimson release. One is simply a series of soundbites from interview which begins with a narrative about how "the following is meant to be taken as a way of life"; a recorded discussion then declares that "rock & roll is about F***ing"; and "How do I dance to this music? Close. Very very close. You feel the music in your pelvis." Further soundbites of a woman's orgasm and sirens whaling follow. Anyone heard this before? Where can it be found. Lastly, another bonus track on the disc sounds like a Fripp (?) guitar solo during a rehearsal or soundcheck with occassional synthesizer crashing sounds layered over it. Any info would be appreciated. Joe Carona Jcarona at Sunamerica dot com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 22:12:17 -0000 From: "Jim McLaughlin" Subject: Fan expectations? In Elephant-talk # 606 Jesse Pellegrini wrote: >Fripp said that it was a pain to use but you have to >be able to live up to expectations for fans. I can not believe that the name Fripp was used in this sentance. ROFL Jim ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 23:12:57 EDT From: SydRoms at aol dot com Subject: Fripp and an Odd Film I'm new to the list, so if this has been covered already I apologize before hand. Last night i saw a Vincent Gallo film, Buffalo '66, and lo and behold the movie featured a number of progressive tunes. The one directly related to KC and co. was "Moonchild" which was used as a very interesting cut into character development for Layla, the female lead played by Christina Ricci. Other cool tracks used in the film include two Yes numbers. "Heart of the Sunrise" helps build the movie up very well at the climax, where the main character is on a mission. "Sweetness" is the title of the other, which is a very seldom heard track from their debut. This was used at the end, which I won't talk about in fear of ruining it. However, my main reason of bringing it up is I figured this film would be of interest to those of you into Crimson. The use of "Moonchild" gives an interesting look at a great song. The movie, i will warn you, is a bit odd. I thought it was brilliant, but i would understand if others of you saw it otherwise. Tim Clark ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 04:15:45 EDT From: kevin p cook Subject: Absent Lovers The 73-74 KC line up will always be my personal favorite. That's one of the reasons I have had trouble accepting the 80's line up until I picked up "Absent Lovers". This band did have the power of the Fripp/Wetton/Bruford/Cross line up and finesse to boot.That reading of "Larks Tongues" smokes. It's remarkable that these recordings stayed in the can so long. A word about John Wetton "Live in New York". Ian McDonalds contribution on Easy Money makes this CD worthwhile, however the recording sounds as if it were miked from the audience. Kevin ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 10:06:37 -0500 (CDT) From: flaherty michael w Subject: Cale and Fripp Correction: Golden Hours I have been reminded by someone calling his or herself the Elephant Shrew (Is that you Eb? It certainly SOUNDS like you :)) that Fripp and John Cale do indeed play on one TRACK together: Eno's "Golden Hours" (from "Another Green World"--I even made a note of this on the cassette copy of my LP; clearly, the memory is fading). While I appreciate the factual correction, it does not change anything else I said in my post: knowing Eno's methods of working, it is very unlikely (although I cannnot be certain) that Fripp and Cale played "together"--they probably didn't even record on the same day. Either way, the session occurred long after Fripp's philosophy of playing was well established. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 08:14:31 +0700 From: "Dave Lumenta" Subject: CC #5-6 On Broadway review Just received the On Broadway package. My comments: 1. Sounds better than the sterile & heavily compressed B'Boom CD. 2. Frame by Frame somewhat sloppy (but that's the reason we joined the CC, right ?) 3. Thela Hun Ginjeet lacking the 'boobams' groove of the 80s version (eg: in Absent Lovers) 4. A very effective Talking Drum (short but very rich) 5. Great Pat - Bill duets (like on Prisms) 6. A magnificent Indiscipline. Just about the time I'm beginning to feel bored of all other versions of it (Discipline, TOPP Live In Japan video, Frejus version, Absent Lovers), this version has regained my interest. Here it seems to be their own parody of the song (Adrian singing the first lines in a rush). Bruford is the ultimate humorist here, being the perfect partner for Belew's elephantosity. At least, it proves that this gloomy 90s edition still retaines the shiny humor and mobility of the 80s edition. OK ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 23:35:39 -0400 From: "Matt Talbot" Subject: Playstation/Youth I think the playstation game could be fun, though I don't own one and am not a big fan of fighting games. But Adrian could have the Whammy Bar of Death, which can of course morph him into a thousand different animals, including an elephant... Next, and I know I'm just asking for rebukes and sinister looks from lots of folks with this one, but I think some KC listeners might enjoy Sonic Youth. I know, you're saying, 'First they say we should listen to Tool, now Sonic Youth? What's next, the Spice Girls?' But bear with me. Sonic Youth are a New York based band who loves alternate guitar tunings, dissonance, and reworking/improvising live. Sure, they're not considered virtuosos, except where feedback is concerned, but they're decent. People who put them down haven't listened close enough to hear Lee Ranaldo's gorgeous countermelodies behind the vocals, a la 'Sugar Kane'. And lately, their songwriting has gotten downright poetic, on newer gems such as 'The Diamond Sea' or 'Wildflower Soul.' As for the music, I don't think theirs is any more challenging to listen to than THRaKaTTaK or some of the ProjeKCt stuff. Sure, odd meters and polyrhythms are few and far between, and no mellotron, but those are hardly reasons not to give a band a try. Now, I'll sit back and just wait for the vitriol. moses at tmbg dot org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 20:57:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Tanigawa Subject: RE: mellotron usage during mid 70's >I've noticed on a lot of the mid 70's on the Great Deciever box >set the mollotron was largely ignored. >Where was the mellotron in the '73-'74 line up? I don't hear it as evident >as some say it is. I think the only time they used it was for the song >Starless and possibly nightwatch. The mellotron is used quite extensively on the material from this era. On "GD" and "Nightwatch" it also appears on "Exiles", "Talking Drum", "Trio", and a number of improvisational interludes. I cannot think of any KC album on which the mellotron figured prominently on every song. However it was used whenever appropriate, and to great effect. I'll agree with what someone said awhile ago: "No one uses a mellotron like King Crimson". >One more question. How come the KC never plays any old hits. I just want to >know. I saw them in concert last May and they won't play any. Not even Red. >Just answer me that question and I'll be satisified. When you compose a song >shouldnt you want to play it just because it's fun to play? "KC on Broadway 1995" has a relatively recent configuration playing "Red", "Talking Drum", and "LTIA part 2". This version of "Red" sounds just as good as the original to me. Maybe they are just tired of playing the same songs year in and year out. That would be understandable. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 23:59:22 EDT From: Bknt at aol dot com Subject: Norbert Fragg: Happy at Last! Dear Team, In my decreasing effort to present the purloined thoughts, knots, bon-mots and slop pots of that insurmountable but not unpronouncible guitarist, Norbert Fragg, I have discarded much that is unmentionable, unconscionable and merely recherche. I have no explanation as to why the following passage resisted disposal. It is possible that my kitchen In-Sink-Erator has ceased to function. It is also possible that Mr. Fragg's ineffably depraved twaddle caused my chromium-plated plughole to constrict and otherwise gag. Thus: Efforts continue from individuals who shall remain nameless, if only for the naming of such individuals requires that they retain the copyright in their work, and that, as a controlling and venal leader, it is my name that becomes the aim to retain blame in a game based on deception, theft and limericks rhyming with the distant Scottish town of Fraggish, though it may be inferred that I am not Scottish nor was meant to be--we Fraggs are originally French, as my great, great, great, great, great and then, not-so-great grandfather, De Rigeur Fragg insisted before he was disembowled, beheaded, flatted and sharped for refusing to give an autograph to His Magesty the Queen Edward II. Thus, a name can pertain to a process in which on-going matters acquire, if not require, if not suspire, if not re-wire, the attention of more than one individual, namely, myself. For those of insufficient mental capacity to grasp the plangent intricacies of the previous passage, your thrush-watching, paint-splotching leader submits to cybervisitors the joyous news that the woeful financial difficulties of the small, independent record company and tea-and-cappuccino dispensory known as Insipid Foaming Bile, are hereby forever banished, thanks to a decision by that peerless craftsman, brilliant artist and sadly misunderstood American genius, Kenny G, to release his latest work with IFB Records. Thus, your needy but not greedy leader vibrates with anticipation for the launching of G Whiz, a gala two-CD set on which this humble guitarist contributes a groundscape loop. To celebrate this important document of fin de icesickle mass culture, Mr. G, in the company of the famed Sufi financial planner and enthusiast of western business practice, Sheik Rattul En Roll, has suggested a collaborative venture in the form of a theme park franchise to be built atop a scenic promontory in the quaintly crapulous village of Itching Drawers, Lacklustershire. I have spent most of the morning giving due consideration to the names of the numerous attractions planned for the park. The list, which is subject to object, if not project, includes the Red Nightmare roller coaster, the Tight Scrummy Interactive Adventure, Dr. Diamond's Merry Underground Train, the Wall on Which the Profits Float gift shop, the Dancing Puppets Revue, the Great Deceiver Souvenir Kiosk (selling cigarettes, ice cream, figurines of the Virgin Mary...), the Sartori in Tangerine Juice Bar, Vrooom B'Boom dodge-'em cars, a Wake Up Poseidon raft course, a PerkyerCirkus Coffee Shoppe, the Ladies of the Road Hotel, What a Perfect Mess art gallery, and, of special interest to nostalgic enthusiasts, the Starless Exhibition Hall, in which the wax effigies of numerous musicians who never became famous shine, shine, depicted in their prime. The task remains to name the park. I have suggested Fraggland, or, a less humble variant, FraggWorld. Though I have mentioned to Mr. G that the title he favors has been released by me in audible form at so many opportunities that it is in danger of becoming more than ironic, he insists that the park reflect the spirit in which brain deadening masterpieces of mass produced monotony reach out and touch someone, anyone, everyone with disposable income. And so we ask all contributors to the kvetchbook, as well as those who have blessed me with their silence, to meet Mr. G and myself at the grand opening of Easy Money, where everyone can buy a thrill. We will provide autographs with any in-store purchase, and pose for photographs suitable for framing. I look forward to the habit of happiness and trust that I shall forget the years I sought something I better that had no name. Bill Kent ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 21:10:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Tanigawa Subject: RE: Devils Triangle - The Movie > "Devil's Triangle, The (1974) > > Cast Vincent Price .... Narrator (voice) > > Original music by Robert Fripp (as King Crimson) " > >Has anyone saw this movie? This is a documentary about the disappearances of ships and aircraft in a region of the north Atlantic known as the Bermuda Triangle. Only fragments of "The Devil's Triangle" (from "In the Wake of Poseidon") appear in the film. There is no other music by KC to my best recollection. The movie probably does not contain the frightful "wow" sound found on the cd and later vinyl pressings of the album. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 10:54:45 +0300 From: Haapa Ilkka Subject: RF and John Cale Hello, In ET#606 Michael Flaherty wrote: >By the way, Cale and Fripp have never played on the same track (anywhere); In fact they did; on Eno's Another Green World's piece Golden Hours Fripp plays beautiful guitar solo and John Cale plays viola at the end of the tune. And i'm sure that some other hawk-eyed ETer has noticed this too... :-) Ilkka Haapa Helsinki, Finland email: ilkka dot haapa at kolumbus dot fi ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 01:59:38 PDT From: "Rafael Di Liumbard Jr." Subject: Mellotron Steve Lukather (TOTO) uses the Mellotron on his latest album "Luke", and let's not forget that even Chicago used the mellotron especially on their seventh album, a supposed more "jazzy" record. But it seems to me that those not "art-rock" use the mellotron more for effect then for the music. It never gets as good as those mellotron choirs on ITCOTCK... Mellotron for all music... Rafael Di Liumbard ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 09:50:53 EDT From: Mrkndrew at aol dot com Subject: "I Talk to the Wind" melody First, Thanks to Toby and all on the ET staff for all their efforts. I really do appreciate the newsletter and web site. In E.T. # 606 Lina asked for help with the melody for I Talk to the Wind. I can help her out, but when I responded by private e-mail, it was returned to me. Lina, if you still need that melody, please contact me with your snail-mail address and I will help you. Meanwhile, keep playing! Mark Stansbery ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 13:06:20 EDT From: JAdams7866 at aol dot com Subject: B.L.U.E. 4-18-98 Knitting Factory Hello, Does anyone have the set list for the B.L.U.E. Knitting Factory Show on 4-18-98. I sure would appreciate it. Thanks, Todd jadams7866 at aol dot com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 15:00:24 -0400 From: David Todd Subject: Re: Playing Old songs in concert >present in the '69'-'72 era. One more question. How come the KC never >plays any old hits. I just want to know. I saw them in concert last May >and they won't play any. Not even Red. Just answer me that question and >I'll be satisified. When you compose a song shouldn't you want to play it >just because it's fun to play? You saw King Crimson in concert last May? I wasn't aware they were touring. Are you sure it wasn't a ProjeKCt? If you see the (circa) 1995 Live in Japan video, you'll note they played Red, Talking Drum and Larks Tongues in Aspic Part II. Anything is possible, some things are likely, few are consistent. Indeed, if you compose a song, you might want to play it. KC have composed many songs, and indeed, it would takes hours to play them all. Choices must be made. And the factors must be taken into account. And so they are. -- Hacksaw = David Charles Todd BBN Technologies = Hacksaw's Employer Hacksaw's Opinions != BBN Technologies' Opinions Linux understands you. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 14:28:19 -0400 From: "Snow, Rick" Subject: Dutch Radio--Fripp on Sept. 6th Can any of our Dutch friends translate this for us and find out when on the 6th this will be webcast? R. Snow (who is totally entranced by On Broadway) *************************** Een avond met Robert Fripp Dit jaar bestaat King Crimson 30 jaar. Sinds 1969 speelt de in London opgerichte Karmozijnrode Koning een vorm van eigenzinnige rockmuziek, waarin op oorspronkelijke manier en lang voordat het modern werd invloeden van jazz, Europese impro en 20ste eeuwse gecomponeerde muziek verwerkt zijn. Belangrijkste man in de groep -al zal hij dat zelf nadrukkelijk ontkennen, want KC is voor hem niet zomaar een groep, het is "a way of doing things" waarbij het geheel meer is dan de som der delen- is meestergitarist Robert Fripp. De geschiedenis van King Crimson is niet alleen vanwege het jubileum actueel. Na jarenlang juridisch getouwtrek heeft Fripp de knellende banden van KC met het label waaraan de groep jarenlang verbonden was, EG Records, weten te verbreken en is hij een eigen platenlabel, Discipline Global Mobile, gestart. DGM wil niet alleen een model zijn hoe in de volgens Fripp op bedrog, uitbuiting en hebzucht gebaseerde muziekindustrie ook anders dan op exploiterende wijze zaken gedaan kan worden, tevens biedt het label de mogelijkheid louter artistieke uitgangspunten te hanteren voor nieuwe releases. In de woorden van DGM zelf: "to bring music into the world which would otherwise be unlikely to do so, or under conditions prejudicial to the music and/or musicians." Sindsdien zijn naast platen van musici die door Fripp zijn uitverkoren een aanzienlijk aantal live-opnamen van verschillende KC-edities uitgebracht. Deze onderstrepen niet alleen het unieke en baanbrekende karakter van de groep, ze maken tevens een gedetailleerde reflectie op de ontwikkeling van de band mogelijk. En dat is precies wat we in Supplement vanavond en in een tweede uitzending later dit jaar willen doen: de ontwikkeling van KC volgen aan de hand van een gesprek met lid-van-het-eerste-uur Robert Fripp. Bas Andriessen zocht de enigmatische musicus op in zijn woonplaats nabij Salisbury, een kleine honderd kilometer ten zuidwesten van Londen. In de uitzending van vanavond zal het gaan over de jaren 1969 - 1980. Drie edities van King Crimson zien in die periode het licht, voordat Fripp in 1974 door de business gedesillusioneerd besluit de muziek definitief te verlaten en zich aan te sluiten bij een leefgemeenschap die de ideeen van de Russische mysticus Gurdjieff en diens adept J.G. Bennett in praktijk probeert te brengen. Gelouterd vestigt Fripp zich daarna in New York, nog zonder een idee hoe de toekomst zich voor hem moet ontvouwen. Uiteindelijk keert Fripp door uitnodigingen van o.a. David Bowie en Talking Heads terug in de muziek om op hun platen als gitarist bijdragen te leveren, en maakt hij in 1979 zijn eerste soloplaat "Exposure". Als we in een volgende uitzending de draad in 1980/1981 oppakken is een nieuwe editie van King Crimson een feit. De kijk van Fripp op muziekmaken is dan inmiddels radicaal veranderd. Denkt hij tot 1981 als de meeste (westerse) muzikanten dat het de musicus is die de muziek maakt, daarna zal zijn complete werk gebaseerd zijn op het inzicht dat de muziek de musicus bespeelt en de uitvoerenden "slechts" medium zijn. Maar daarover dus later dit jaar meer. In beide uitzendingen zal het leeuwendeel van de muziek bestaan uit live-opnamen. Want King Crimson was en is toch vooral een live band. Fripp omschreef het in 1991 zelf als volgt: "Studio and live are two worlds. Would you, the audience, prefer to have a love letter or a hot date? Each have their value. Crimson were always the band for a hot date. From time to time they could write a love letter too, but for me they were better in the clinches. Sometimes it's like angels descending from the clouds on chariots of fire, blowing trumpets of gold in your ear. Baby Blue, I was there." Supplement wordt vanavond gemaakt door Bas Andriessen, Co de Kloet en Vera Vingerhoeds. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 15:38:54 +0400 (MSD) From: "Roman Sklyarov" Subject: Russificated King Crimson Hi dear ETers. Crimheads from Russia are greeting you all. I have prepared a book called "Russificated King Crimson" consisting of the KC' history, complete translation of lyrics into Russian (what a titanic work) and Russian-based discography. Now I'm trying to publish it. By the way, can anybody explain me what does the "prism ship" means (from "In the Court of the Crimson King"). I'll be very grateful for the help. If somebody wants to contact me, please better use the fax. My phone/fax numbers are: home 007 812 2913376; office 007 812 2515011. Best regards Vladimir Kalnitsky, Saint Petersburg RU asu at roadcommittee dot spb dot su ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 07:14:59 -0700 From: Paulo Henrique Leocadio Subject: King Crimson in Germany 1973 Cheers! I have two CDs from that period. One, live in Italy (late october '73) and the other, live in Germany (Early november '73). I have only a light idea about the actual date since KC played 4 days in Germany in '73 (according to the KC files). You are absolutely right: first and probably second tunes are from a recent post '82 KC incarnation, the rest of the concert is really live in Germany. > Paulo H. Leocadio > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, Aug 17 1999 12:21:52 GMT-0400 From: manoel at mail dot pinkfloyd dot com Subject: Attention Brazilian ETers! Hello! I tried to send this posting in Portuguese, but, as you all know, English is the universal language, so I'm sending it back in English. A month ago I started a "local chapter" of ETers in Brasil, hoping to start a discussion group about music, specially Brazilian music. Considering Eters as people who like not only King Crimson music, but good music in general, and that they have a critical taste which follows a certain logic, I thought of them as a good starting group. I'm creating a web page for this purpose; if you have any topic about music (musical taste and musical options - no music theory allowed!!) you'd like to discuss with other people, or if you have any suggestions for the page, send them to one of my e-mail addresses: manoelzappa at zipmail dot com dot br or manoel at pinkfloyd dot com Stay tuned! Manoel Maria Jr. ------------------------------ Date: 17 Aug 99 12:42:14 -0700 From: "David Voci" Subject: Mellotron Spotted in Soundgarden Hello Friends, A couple quick points from a travel weary gemini...Again would like to compliment Epitaph's release and even though the material on discs 3 and 4 is a bit muddy, the material is refreshing seeing that most of the songs are non lp Crimson songs, some melodies that went on to become real, LP versions under different names are present though(Pictures of a City, for one). I really like the pseudo jazzy nature of the first line-up. Ian McDonald shows some cool flute/sax playing on this first incarnation and Fripp's style is pretty straightforward here. There are some long workouts on these discs and even an 18+ minute rendition of Drop In which is quite impressive. The versions of Mars throughout show some pretty trancey mellotron playing. Great Deceiver, the box set, seems to have many places where mellotron shows up and becomes David Cross's other instrument in lieu of violin. As far as Mellotron goes, yes indeed a great keyboard instrument and a song in which this really jumps out at the listener called 'Mailman' on Soundgarden's Superunknown LP is a superb showing for this device. This was a surprise hearing this, but at the same time a real treat...the ethereal nature of the 'Tron has been captured here in all it's glory. On this topic I would like to add to a comment a few issues back where a reader wrote about Matching Mole's first LP and Mellotron usage...while 'Oh Caroline' might feature this instrument to a degree, the real swan song on this album is the last track called 'Immediate Curtain' where the 'tron is center stage...a very deep/mellotron laced affair and pretty much a tour de force for the instrument. There's another current band that uses alot of 70's material to shape their sound called Monstermagnet that uses something called a 'Theremin' to get strange electronic sounds...I have a feeling that these spacers also used or could have used the Mellotron on some of their drug induced recordings(there's a tune called 'Ozium' on Spine of God that smacks of Mellotron but I really didn't get the CD out and check.) A big Sabbath fan(I'm missing three from their catalogue, Live Evil/Dehumanizer/Ozzie/Sab reunion 2CD), I never really liked the songs mentioned on Sabbath Bloody Sabbath re Mellotron. Since Sabbath really were a bass/drum/guitar/vox band the use of keys on Sabbath Bloody Sabbath were out of context in most cases, IMO...Sabotage is another story, the use here seems to fit with the overall theme(Supertzar???). And of course later, enters one Geoff Nicholls, who plays some really nice keys on lp's Technical Ecstasy and on...no mellotron here I don't believe but GN is indeed a fine keys player and fits in well with Sabbath's original lineup(at the end of Ozzie era) and others that followed(Dio/Tony Martin/Ian Gillan etc..). Some of my Sabbath info might be a little off as I didn't get CD's out to verify all info. I really enjoy the list we have here and want to thank all readers/writers for contribs and especially the webmaster for bringing it all together every week. Until next time, dv ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 14:27:46 PDT From: "Nomad Stem" Subject: Mexico City download - you just can't please everyone all of the time Interesting reading the first messages appearing on the DGM Guestbook. Obvious benefits for DGM here are the smaller downloads. Given they will be making concerts available, not just single tracks, MP3 size files would just be rediculously large. At least the MS format is half what that would be. That's significant. 3 hours at 28.8 speed to download almost 70 minutes of music is longer than most people have (except perhaps to complain about not being able to playback the audio in the first place). I think the other benefit is the qualify of the audio. My understanding is the MS technology is actually better than MP3. Given that knowledge why would a group of quality artists wish to go with the lesser quality playback solution? That's as much a compromise in an artist's integrity as anything the detractors wish to suggest. It doesn't make sense for a new venture to embrace an old, if somewhat revolutionary, format. DGM obviously is looking forward here. Were MP3 an improving format then it might have been an option. Given this concert is available for download free, I'm sure once the other platforms have a player that can play them people will still have access to the download somewhere on the web. And lets remember, no one is required to pay anything for this download, and it is up to you to decide whether immediate access to concert audio from the previous day's show is worth paying the $10 it might cost. Our friends down under might have a thing or two to say about being able to do that, and Joe Blow in Cleveland who just loved the show he went to will undoubtedly love being able to get his very own souvenir to play over and over. Either way some people just won't be happy - that's a simple fact of life. Nomad ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 22:16:30 -0000 From: "Kate & Eric Kirchner" Subject: Miscellaneous Thoughts Two quick notes to ET-ers: 1. Recently got into Steve Reich's "Music for 18 Musicians", and couldn't help noticing the resemblance between parts of that work and the intro to "Waiting Man" from "Beat" -- is this coincidental or by design? 2. Just for American sports fans only: Adrian Belew and Gary Gaetti (3rd baseman for my beloved Cubbies): separated at birth? I'll hang up and listen for my answer. Regards, Eric PS: I miss Eb! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 23:41:53 -0400 From: "Dennis M. Parrott" Subject: Showcasing the Chapman Stick Hello All - I hope this isn't covered in an FAQ somewhere, I already have too many Usenet bruises... ouchie! I hang out at lunchtimes with a fellow who is a musician turned computer programmer. A week or so ago, we were hanging out in a local CD merchants store checking out all the stuff we could buy when out of the clear blue my pal (John) starts into this: John: Hey, you're a King Crimson fan, right? Me: Uhh, yeah... John: Tony Levin - he's in Crimson? Me: Well, yes since about '81...and your point is? John: He plays a Chapman Stick, right? Me: Ummm, yeah as well as Music Man basses. So? John: I wanna know which CD I should buy to best hear him play the Stick. Me: Hmmmm.... I don't know -- I JUST LIKE THE MUSIC! I can't tell a Stick from my left elbow... I don't play, I just listen! ...but... I also "know" all you fine folk and so I am asking the Stick-knowledgeable among you to help John and I out. So that's the question before the group -- which Crimson tunes do you think show off TL's Stick playing the best? (Does anyone know which tune TL is playing in the pic in the booklet that came with _KC - Live on Broadway_ where he is pictured playing the Stick with a BOW!! John's comment when he saw that was "the first rule of virutousity is there are none", he shook his head and walked away puzzled...) Please send your thoughts, ideas, rants to me off-list; I'll summarize and post them to the list. I have it from a knowledgeable source that _Elephant Talk_ is opened with a Stick solo by TL. So please don't send me emails going -- "hey, its E.T. d00d" -- if that is your contribution, tell me which particular version is the one you would like to recommend. Thanks! Babbling and Burbling On... dp --------------- Dennis M. Parrott web developer-at-large dparrott at mich dot com http://www.mich.com/~dparrott/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 07:02:49 -0400 From: "Brian Berry" Subject: downloading the Window Media DGM bootleg For those who are having trouble downloading the Mexico City bootleg that DGM has provided over at http://license.keyconnect.com/wm/dgm/ (I had it timeout and stop three times) you might want to try a download manager like GetRight or Go!Zilla and then use the following URL: http://wmcontent.keyconnect.com/WM/content/F11AF6C1-4B59-11D3-9E6E-000629501 E85/04EFB40F-4E02-11D3-BF18-000629502413/WMS_RM_FILTER/KingCrimsonLiveInMexi coCity.wma It's long, but it will work. That way, if the connection times out, the download manager should be able to reconnect and pick up where it left off. I have a cable modem and it still took over five hours at least, so a bit a patience will be needed also :) GetRight is over at http://www.getright.com/ and Go!Zilla is at http://www.gizmo.net/gozilla/. Cheers, Brian Berry polarize at usa dot net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 06:22:18 -0700 (PDT) From: wilsonhenson at yahoo dot com Subject: crimson tributes I have to say that Murky's version of "Neil and Jack and me" is not only hilarious, but somewhat frightening.I urge all ETers to check this out on the tribute page from elephant tape. It's very funny. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 17:13:01 +0200 From: Marco Grossi Subject: request Hello, it is possible to have the chords for guitar of these songs? -- lizard - in the wake of poseidon - island i have searched a lot without success! thank you marco ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #607 ********************************