Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #603 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 603 Friday, 30 July 1999 Today's Topics: NEWS: ET Goes PDA! Fripp-Hackett related post... Books about Crimson/Fripp, etc. The Mellotron Great Deceiver ( Japan ) The sound of Red The Great Deceiver Bill_Bruford's_Earthworks_-_live_at_Keitelejazz,_A The Great Deceiver boxed set for sale New survey sugestion on getting panter's ears early Re: mellotron/ITCotCK ed. eg/no apologies/belew live any info on remastered releases? some mellotron stuff Relax, Have a cigar, Can I Buy You A Beer? King Crimson and movies Centipede RE: Egad, "crim-heads" . . . . A Crimhead Am I new dead threads; remasters FW: Crimson Tool RE: Song restatements More Crimson Tool... ELP/YES =RUMOR= Re: Mellotron Jamie Muir Re: DGM Reissues half speed masters; Aladdin Theater; 602 ETs; USA II; E-Bay Delay Correction/Insight No-Man's Tim Bowness on working with Fripp (part 1) GuM? Pat news KC SALE An Observation and a Query Avant Garde For ET: The Ululating Whisper Let The Power Fall A somewhat trivial question GIG REVIEW: Adrian Belew ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.5b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 03:37:54 EDT From: DanKirkd at aol dot com Subject: NEWS: ET Goes PDA! ETers, I'm very happy to announce that you can now get ET on your PDA (Palm Pilot or Wn CE device). Using the free AvantGo.com service you will be able to download (through a hotsync) the latest ET newsletter, the latest ET news and tour date information for upcoming shows and events. If you've been thinking about getting a PDA, perhaps this feature makes doing so even more compelling. I think this is a pretty cool feature, if I may say so myself. I've actually been reading ET on my Palm V for the past 5 or 6 issues. I really like the convenience, and having the latest tour dates on my PDA is also useful. The nice thing is that we've set things up so that most of all the pages you can download are automatically generated, so this adds little extra day to day work for me, and hopefully no extra work for Toby, yet provides a unique feature few web sites have at this point. In fact the Elephant Talk channel is only the second "optimized" music channel at AvantGo (optimized meaning that the pages have been specifically created for display on the small screen of a PDA). You can find instructions on how to get the software you need and how to subscribe to the ET channel at AvantGo on our new PDA page at ET Web. It is really quite simple. If you have any questions please send them my way. Cheers and enjoy! Dan ET Web ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 12:31:01 PDT From: "alexis rondeau" Subject: Fripp-Hackett related post... Hello, A litle while ago, i read on a Genesis-related website that there had been a real posibility for Robert Fripp to join the band when Steve Hackett left! i don't beleve it makes sens. Is somebody confusing Steve Howe and Steve Hackett again? Or am i wrong and is there any truth to this? Tell me if you know. While i'm on the subject of Genesis and their guitarist, i've got to mention how much i'd like the Hackett - Tokyo Tapes lineup to get together again. There is so much they could play: everybody's solo stuff (with Ian McDonald and and Chester Thompson's new albums), the best os Genesis, some Crimson stuff... it'd be especially fantastic if they played something out of the Red album witch has never been performed live by KC and Does feature Wetton AND McDonald! Have fun. Alex ps. It's great for you if you've read the Merriam Webster's Dic. and know it all but don't be to harsh with the foreigners... i can only spellcheck french. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 15:44:31 -0500 From: Alexander Domrin Subject: Books about Crimson/Fripp, etc. What books about King Crimson, Fripp, etc. have ever been published? In English and other languages? Any information would be extremely appreciated. That would be marvelous too, if I could receive information about books dedicated to "similar" ProgRock bands and artists. Best, Alex ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 17:11:30 -0400 From: Jean-Sebastien_Rostan Subject: The Mellotron Hi! If there would be one word describing the work of mellotron in King Crimson it would be : MOOD! Most of King Crimson emotions passed through that wonderful (but unreliable) instrument... Beside the Moody Blues, I think that these bands where using mellotron the best: Genesis (Gabriel Era) Premiata Forneria Marconi (an Awesome Italian Band) Harmonium (a Montreal progfolk band) and Crimso off course. One has not to be a virtuose (why Yes and ELP or Gentle-Giant werent big users) on the keyboards to give flavor to a piece of music: just playing the right notes/chords Today we can get this sound digitally without having to setup the reeltapes or the power fluctuation... Like Roland Vintage synth module that do the job very well! ciao! ** Djee-Ess ** Montreal, Canada Djee_ess at Hotmail dot com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 23:34:02 +0100 From: "Anthony Bird" Subject: Great Deceiver ( Japan ) I have just received The Great Deceiver - Live 1973~1974, which is a Excellent Box set, I got it from Boxman www.boxman.co.uk , If you check there, they have two versions of the Great Deceiver, one is about #50 & the one I ordered from Japan on a label called Canyon International is a Box set 4 CD's two colour Booklets one Japanese & one English for only #12.19 + # 2.50 postage, its got to be the Bargain of The 21st Century Schizoid Man Tony ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 06:33:59 +0800 From: "John & Sharon" Subject: The sound of Red Lennarts comments regarding the sound of Red resonate a little over here in Australia. It would be lovely to hear this remixed as the album has some entrancing moments (especially Starless). John Buchanan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 06:47:14 +0800 From: "John & Sharon" Subject: The Great Deceiver TGD appears to be still available at http://partner.frontstage.com Keep searching through the King Crimson catalog until you come across The Great Deceiver for $22 US!! (you can still get it for ~$70 in other parts of the list if you haven't searched far enough. A recent post said this was a Pony Canyon release, but all the packaging was in Japanese. It may be worth investigating as well as the remastered catalogue in miniature vinyl editions. Maybe Pony Canyon got these before the rest of the world ala the Pojekct releases?? John Buchanan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 16:42:36 +0300 From: "Toni Suominen" Subject: Bill_Bruford's_Earthworks_-_live_at_Keitelejazz,_A I haven't heard Earthworks before this event, so I didn't know what to expect. Of course I did know that some awesome drumming was about to be heard, because of Bruford on the drums. The evening was very cold, and I remember Mr. Bruford mentioning something about our weather conditions in Finland. But despite the cold weather, especially the musicians and also the audience were hot. Before Earthworks there were two Swedish jazz-bands playing, both had good drummers, but nothing compared to Bruford. Earthworks was, to me, very light, entertaining fusion jazz. I liked it so much that I bought their new CD, A part and yet apart, and liked it also. They opened with the opening track of A part and yet apart, No Truce with the Furies, wich is my favourite track. They played almost every track of APAYA, something from the earlier albums, and also something from the Bill Bruford with Ralph Towner & Eddie Gomez - If Summer Had Its Ghosts - album, wich also sounded interesting. And at the end of the evening, Bruford played an awesome about 15 minutes long drum solo, wich a got long standing ovation. In general, the gig was exellent and Bruford's playing convinsed me that he is one of the best drummers in the world, maybe even the best. Also, the other guys from Earthworks appeared to be very talented players. Toni Suominen tono at mbnet dot fi ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 12:00:26 -0400 From: MH Subject: The Great Deceiver boxed set for sale If anyone is interested in a copy of The Great Deceiver boxed set, I am offering one for sale, in excellent condition. Details: King Crimson Live 1973-1974, released 1992, out of print. 4 CD set. Includes the entire show from Zurich, Nov 15 1973 and parts of: Pittsburgh, Apr 29 1974 Providence, Jun 30 1974 Glasgow, Oct 23 1973 and excerpts from a few others. Also includes a 68-page Scrapbook, featuring a tour diary by Robert Fripp, tour photos, tour dates, notes on the recordings and lots of reviews of the Essential KC boxed set. Will take best offer. Respond by private email only. Mike Hairston mikeh97 at gis dot net ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 12:50:01 -0400 (CLT) From: "Miguel Farah F." Subject: New survey sugestion I'd like to propose a new survey in the ET WWW site. 1) If you had to introduce KC to someone that's never heard it before, and you could only use ONE album, which one would you choose? 2) If you had to introduce KC to someone that's never heard it before, and you could only use TWO albums, which ones would you choose? [ Please, no answers to this to ET. Dan the Webmeister will decide whether to have this as a new survey or not. -- Toby ] -- MIGUEL FARAH // miguel at webhost dot cl #include // http://www.webhost.cl/~miguel <*> "Trust me - I know what I'm doing." - Sledge Hammer ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 04:05:39 +1000 From: "ross david" Subject: on getting panter's ears early (in reply to Ben G. - and to all ET youngsters/oldsters) No, you can't be too young to be overwhelmed by music. Can I tell you about my first time? (Ah, the first time ... sigh.) In the middle of the 1960's there was an American variety program called the Ed Sullivan Show. This show screened regularly in Australia on Sunday nights. (Sunday night, as chance would have it was the only night that my parents would allow their 11 (possibly 12) year old son to watch TV.) The Sullivan show had acts, somewhat uniquely, which ran a gamut from classical performers through to magicians and stand-up comedians. Occasionally there was pop-music. One fatal night, one act changed my life forever. And here is my slightly re-mastered version of it. A stage-setting of four (maybe five) cylinders varying considerably in height and size. One musician on each cylinder. In the middle, on top of the highest clyinder, up so high that he cannot be seen in the basic front-on camera shot, the drummer.The floor-to-ceiling visuals are matched by wall-to-wall sound - punctuated by two periods where nothing but a single keyboard note is played. It was Vanilla Fudge performing You Keep Me Hanging On. I was astounded and at a loss. Lying on my stomach in the middle of the living room, with my hands propping up my head, I turned to my parents and asked: - "Is this music?" Blank looks.Even if it weren't music, I knew one thing for sure: I was a convert. Short postscript. Vanilla Fudge's version of You Keep Me Hanging On had some features that are, er, fairly familiar to anyone reading this; volume contrasts, stop-start manoeuvres, heavy keyboard, lead guitar as a sort of dada glue, all-over-the-place drumming. Do the Vanillas qualify as an influence on Our Majesty? all the best Ross Davis A.C.T.,Aust. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 11:50:29 PDT From: "Hiro Noodles" Subject: Re: mellotron/ITCotCK ed. eg/no apologies/belew live "I did not have too much time to check it out, but would like to know who else made use of the mellotron back in 70's. Does anyone know?" well, i certainly think that john paul jones warrants mention as an innovative mellotron player. "Editions EG released half-speed mastered LPs of the KC catalog in the 80's, IIRC. ANyone know if ITCotCK was part of that series?" i bought that version of ITCotCK on CASETTE the other day for $1. "I don't want to hear any more apologies about being a Fripp fan. All this nonsense about what OTHER people think of us- Star Trek fans, etc.- who cares. They are missing the boat, simply because they don't have an adventurous ear! Let them listen to the Carpenters. They're safe. You don't have to think when you listen to them. If your wife doesn't understand, DON'T BRING HER! Listen - Fripp is a genius and he surrounds himself with awesome musicians. What more do you want? There is nothing to understand. You either get it or you don't. From where I stand, if you get it, you're one of the lucky few." if you listen with an adventurous ear, you'll find there is nothing SAFE about the carpenters at all. Karen could make "happy birthday" sound as depressing as a SWANS song. Richard is such a brilliant arranger that you don't even notice how complicated the safe pop song you are hearing actually is. he's a genius that surrounded himself with HAL BLAINE. don't get me wrong, i like kc better than the carpenters. but i also like the monkees and the melvins. as neil young sez, "It's all the same song." " Last night Adrian proved that he has what it takes to walk out in front of a crowd with two acoustics and one electric guitar and truly become a one man show. He floored us with his virtuosity, his vast musical repertoire, his good humor, and a natural raport with the audience. More importantly for me as a guitarist, Adrian entered and exclusive little club of guitar players that I have seen perform live, that possess such a command of the instrument, they have entered a special place in my heart: Leo Kottke, Michael Hedges, and Jimi Hendrix." i'm not saying ade isn't great, but next time ask the soundman to show you the tapes. and remember to ignore that little man behind the curtain! -hiro Hiro Noodles' HQ http://hiro.drool.org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 00:15:14 +0300 From: "Demon Avi" Subject: any info on remastered releases? Dear friends, Hi to you all! I've missed some ET newsletters but I've noticed a discussion on remastered King Crimson started so I thought it will be a good time to ask something I wanted to ask long ago. About 2 months ago I saw some copies of different KC albums in a record store here in Israel. They were improted from japan and on the back it was written they are "definative edition" and "remastered". Among them were "Red", "Island" & "Disciplan". They were very expensive (japan imports usually are) so I did not buy them as I thought I will find them in a different printing (from USA/England/Germany/Holland). I currently have only 2 remastered releases of King Crimson (ITCOTCK & LTIA) and I am missing a lot of KC albums in my collection, so I thought I should wait and buy the remasters. However, since then I only found "Disciplan" in a remastered edition. Does anyone know if the other remastered Cd's have been released anywhere but Japan? If not, will they be? Can someone please light my way & give me some information about the remastered releases? Thanks in advance! Yours truly, Avi ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 22:27:45 +0200 From: "Al" Subject: some mellotron stuff From Elephant Talk #602: " I did not have too much time to check it out, but would like to know who else made use of the mellotron back in 70's. Does anyone know?" I can only answer by my floydian point of view, you can hear mellotron into: pink floyd / a saucerful of secrets...................title track and see-saw pink floyd/ ummagumma (studio album)......sysyphus pink floyd/ atom heart mother........................title track (into the"mind your throats, please" section) Alb 1963 P.S. I deeply love FRACTURE! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 18:23:24 -0500 From: razoo at postoffice dot swbell dot net Subject: Relax, Have a cigar, Can I Buy You A Beer? Regarding the topic about what venue is best suited to Crimsoning, I would take a cool, cozy jazz venue, complete with tables chairs and waitresses, who (gulp) serve both alcoholic and nonalcoholic drinks. Although I don't smoke cigarrettes, I enjoy smoking a good cigar should the festivity of the occasion call upon my desires to do so. I support the venue that would supply me with one of those too. I've had the privilege of seeing Andy Summers, ProjeKCt 3 (three times, two shows were non-smoking), Larry Carlton, and a few other notables under these kinds of conditions, and have a warm and vivid memory of them. The availability of drinks didn't cause me to get "bombed", I possess a certain amount of self-control. Everyone I saw at those shows were laughing, smiling, generally having a good time. Nobody vomited because of smoke in the venue, they were probably consumed by the smoking guitar playing going on. I enjoy concerts in all types of venues, but my preference is noted. I think I've been to some of the shows that Brewin prefers, the kind where no cheering of Our Heroes of Crim would probably be frowned upon; that would suck. Perhaps if one desires his space to be silent (but for the music) and sterile, he or she should stay home and listen to their hi-fi system; even the volume can be controlled. Thanks to ET staff for allowing another point of view to be noted on this issue. Throw Baby in the Water, Razoo ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 19:30:15 -0500 From: "Vanderbilt" Subject: King Crimson and movies I could not help thinking that Sex,Sleep, Eat, Drink, Dream would have been the perfect theme song for Kubrick's new Eyes Wide Shut. Also, I noticed that Brian Eno wrote "Prophet Theme" (or something similar) for the movie version of Frank Herbert's classic, DUNE. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 23:01:04 -0400 (EDT) From: keith adams Subject: Centipede hello, does anyone have an information on where i cant get a hold of a Centipede recording? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 20:11:32 PDT From: "Michel Champagne" Subject: RE: Egad, "crim-heads" . . . . Kyle, in ET#602, expressed displeasure at the use of the term "crim-head" (or "crimhead"), and I for one can say that I share his displeasure, although for not exactly the same reasons. This is not to say that his reasoning is invalid, but that our motivations are different. At any rate, that is not the point here. As far as I know, the first time I saw this term used was in the booklet that accompanied "The Great Deceiver" CD box set, and I found it immediately distasteful. The use of the term was by RF himself, and my (unconfirmed) impression is that it was something he had "recently" begun to use, as I don't recall seeing it anywhere in the original "Young Person's Guide" booklet, or the updated "frame by frame" booklet, and have never heard him utter it in any concert recordings in which he makes a vocal presentation. Perhaps Uncle Bob has been using the term for years; I don't know. My personal favorite for a replacement, and one I've been using for nearly 25 years now, is "crimsomaniac." I proposed this to Robert in a letter a few years back but, alas, he has not seen fit to take my suggestion. (Oh, woe is me! ) Robert can use his term of choice, and I'll use mine. Note to Kyle: you can choose too. Just my two cents. Mike Michel J Champagne Pellerin Milnor Corporation Systems Programmer ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 01:25:10 EDT From: Bolinhed at aol dot com Subject: A Crimhead Am I from ET 602: < When did we start calling ourselves"crim-heads"? The connection with "dead-heads" is most distasteful, especially when the "deadhead" movement, (in America anyway), seems to have degenerated into a bunch of glassy-eyed, upper middle class twentysomethings, who wold follow Starship around if it meant that they wouldn't have to work another summer. >>> Dude!! Da-hooooood! Starship is on TOUR?! Well then, I am AUDI this job! Like, pronto!! Seriously - who gives a patootie what "we" call "ourselves"? Call me Ishmael. Unless someone tattoos a title on you, don't fear it. Jim ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 12:06:43 -0400 From: James Hannigan Subject: new dead threads; remasters I propose any discussion of one's age, sex, color, creed, height, weight, foot size, favorite color, and whatever other personal statistic which may arise regarding "being a King Crimson" fan be banned forever. As for the remaster issue: go track down some pristine original pressings, clean them, place in new sleeves, and play them on a good turntable, and you will be happy. Jim Hannigan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:16:14 -0700 From: Brian Mafi Subject: FW: Crimson Tool Howdy, Gotta chime in on the Tool/KC connection. Tool are IMHO THE top group of rock as we know it. They combine impeccable musicianship, creativity, a willingness to experiment, and take NO SHIT from anyone! They are doing their thing their way, on their terms (sounds like another band we may all know). I highly recommend seeing them live. Yes, they stretch a little, add sections to a couple of tunes, do a bit of "Soundscaping/noisemaking" before "Sober". "Aenima" is a must own for anyone looking for cerebral hard rock in the late 90's. See You Auntie! Brian ------------------------------ Date: 26 Jul 99 13:41:00 EDT From: James Dusewicz Subject: RE: Song restatements Speaking of ITWOP, which I think is ITCOTCK part two for all practical purposes. "Devil's Triangle" has a snippet of "In The Court of The Crimson King" buried in the mix. ITWOP came out in (1969). The only similar snippet inclusion of a song I can recall is on Simon And Garfunkle's BOOKENDS album that includes in the song "Save The Life of My Child" a snippet of "The Sounds Of Silence" from the lp of the same name. BOOKENDS also came out in (1969). I think it's rather cheesy myself, but it is MHO. jim campaigner at usa dot net James Dusewicz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 15:55:28 -0700 From: Brian Mafi Subject: More Crimson Tool... Howdy, Coupla comments re: The Tool/KC thread... > Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 13:55:40 -0700 > From: "M. Cornelis van der Weele IV" > Subject: Re: The King and his TOOL "Thgouh KC was not specifically mentioned, his father made a point of citing Danny's heavy prog influence as a drummer." Danny had mentioned in a Modern Drummer interview how enamored he was of Billy Cobhams' playing. > From: "GARY WEIMER" Subject: Bicker, Banter, Brouhaha > Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 13:14:48 PDT "Maybe it's just me, but I find Tool to be a shallow, droning imitation of a real band. I will admit, though, that I find the vocals excellent. I've never heard anyone so effectively capture not only the style, but the phrasings, of Ian Anderson." YOW!!! If you find Tool "shallow", I can't imagine what you consider "deep" in the current world of one-off, here on a soundtrack, gone the next day world that is rock music in the late 90s'. Tools' music/lyrics, like any good band, are extremely multi-layered; repeated listenings reveal new treasures every time, if you feel compelled to listen for them. The lyrics are ANYTHING but shallow; Maynard is writing on a multi-level plane. Consistently in interviews, he is asked "what does X song mean"? and consistently, he says, listen to them and figure what it means to YOU. Like an onion...peel back the layers to get what is inside. The Ian Anderson comment sounds to my ears like a dig at Maynard copping anothers' style. Don't quite hear it myself, but I haven't been overly immersed in Tull music. (Tull...Tool...hmmm, you may have something there;). We are all products of our influences... Just a fan of Tool & KC giving my .02 cents worth of opinion. Tool is considered, by fans and critics , let alone most every person in a modern rock band, to be the epitome of substance,meaning, integrity, and talent in this sorry-ass world of current rock music. Give 'em another chance, Mr. Weimer! Peace, Love, Bobby Sherman, Brian Mafi ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 22:25:53 -0000 From: "Jim McLaughlin" Subject: ELP/YES =RUMOR= In issue 602 Kurt McClintock wrote: >Having heard that ELP is re-forming to join Yes on tour later this >year.... Sources in the Professional Hammond Organ World looked into it and confirm it to be a rumor. No facts yet. Jim ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 18:32:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Tanigawa Subject: Re: Mellotron Here's what I could come up with in 5 minutes. Beatles Rolling Stones Family ("See Through Window") Led Zeppelin Greenslade Groundhogs ("Earth Shanty") Yes Traffic ("No Face, No Name, No Number", "Dream Gerrard") Genesis Barclay James Harvest Caravan Bee Gees ("Every Christian Lion-hearted Man Will Show You") Klaatu The Graham Bond Organisation and Cream are from the '60s and so aren't included in this list. Graham Bond is said to have introduced the mellotron to rock music. However I don't know to what extent he used the instrument. I have not been able to find any of his albums. Cream's use of the mellotron is debatable. I have heard that the "mellotron" on "Badge" and "White Room" is actually Clapton's guitar recorded several times over, but don't quote me on that. There is a mellotron on Caravan's "Nine Feet Underground", but it appears so seldom that it is easy to miss. Caravan is mostly inoffensive pop with none of the menace of the pre-1980 KC. Finally King Crimson also used the mellotron to create orchestral effects, and not merely to terrify the listener. Examples are "In the Court of the Crimson King", "Epitaph", "In the Wake of Poseidon", and "Cirkus". In these cases their use of the instrument was similar to Mike Pinder's on "Have You Heard/The Voyage". I would believe that the Moodies regarded KC as a threat. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 15:14:13 +0300 From: "Mikko Sorsa" Subject: Jamie Muir Hello ET:ers! First I'd like to greet everyone since I'm new to this newsletter. I have listened a lot of the Larks record lately, and am very impressed by Jamie Muirs percussions. Does anyone know did Jamie Muir appear live with KC? If so, is there any video material of those appearances? I've heard some live recordings from 70's but they seem to lack Jamie's percussions, am I right? Anyways, warm greetings from sunny Finland! Mikko Sorsa ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 08:56:20 -0400 From: Loren Karnick Subject: Re: DGM Reissues I'm sure I'm sending this to the wrong place, but I thought some clarification was in order. I have been pestering the DGM website with questions about both the first to Collectors Club releases, as well as The Great Deceiver. The response is the somewhat enigmatic "be patient", but clearly the answer is that all of these will be back in print through DGM, just a matter of when. I myself am going to be patient for the first two Collectors releases, because what I've seen at eBay and Artists Shop (or whatever) are really expensive and I'd rather DGM see any profit off them. As to The Great Deceiver, it is floating around and I was able to get a copy for a reasonable $50 and it is well worth it. I was concerned because the sets are relatively repetitive, but there is a whole lot to be learned about the group and the players from a careful listening. While I am disappointed in the path that John Wetton's career has taken, from these discs, it is clear that he was a valuable contributor to KC at this time and RF had made a wise choice in including him. I have seen complaints about the repetitiveness of certain songs and while if you've been a real diligent collector, you might get tired of it, I think that it is great to hear the difference even from one Easy Money to the next, and some very significant changes, such as RF's guitar over Wetton's voice in Easy Money on the second (or third disc, can't remember). Given the Dead/KC comparisons, I suppose that this interest in variations is similar to the sometimes interminable discussions among deadheads about the innumerable different versions of their songs and what makes one more special, but hopefully, DGM will not be that excessive in bringing out discs, and will be selective ala Dick's Picks, which tend to be very good. I am afraid that discerning RF's intentions for releases through DGM can be like reading tea leaves at times, but in the long run is probably a better value. An aside: does anyone else out hear the similarities between Sundays All Over the World and the early 80's Canadian group Martha and the Muffins? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 09:51:00 -0700 From: "Scott Steele" Subject: half speed masters; Aladdin Theater; 602 ETs; USA II; E-Bay >Editions EG released half-speed mastered LPs of the KC catalog in the 80's, IIRC. ANyone know if ITCotCK was part of that series? Yes it was. >>Could ETers have an influence on what venues the future Crim plays in? >Here's my vote: The Aladdin Theater: Portland, Oregon! That would be a great place for them to play, if the theatre adds some cushions to those seats. They really hurt. ;) >In ET# 601 (gosh that's a lot of ETs!) Thanks for your efforts in producing all of them, Teamsters - they've been great. Mostly. Overwhelmingly mostly great. ;) >As for the USA II/Asbury Park release, my reliable sources indicate that the plan (for now - all things can change), is that this would be a Virgin release that will hopefully appeal to all camps in the USA debate, with one CD being the original LP release, including overdubs, and the other CD being the entire Asbury Park concert, sans overdubs. This is an outstanding prospect that I look forward to eagerly. E-Bay Syndrome: >Nonetheless there does seem to be quite a demand for these discs. Two CD copies of USA have sold for $36 and $28 respectively, and the Earthbound CD eventually sold for a walloping $61. If you bought it at E-Bay, you paid too much. But I have yet to find a good dealer of used CDs on the Internet - has anyone else? - S. np: Soft Machine Third scottst at ohsu dot edu ------------------------------ Date: 27 Jul 99 13:37:13 -0700 From: "David Voci" Subject: Delay Correction/Insight Hello Friends, In issue 602, Douglas Otte responded, albeit a bit incorrectly, to my query regarding the use of onstage tape recorders for sound delay technique: >I've been a fan of KS since the mid-70s. I've read >many things by & >about him, & I've never heard of him using this delay >technique, but I'm >sure it's possible. In the 70s he did use 2 Revox >reel-to-reel >machines. If you look closely at the photo inside the >case of the >remastered "Moondawn" CD, or at some of the photos >inside the "X" LP >(the "X" CD doesn't include the photos), you can see 2 >tape machines at >.with a one-tape >loop. I'd like to offer the additional information of the fact that while this effect was utilised by Klaus Schulze and subsequently by alot of others my question was one of trying to determine who did it first...One individual has suggested Terry Riley which I tend to believe as Klaus does mention this innovator in some of his CD liner notes...Fripp/Eno's 'No Pussyfooting' puts their use at 1973 so that's the earliest that I know of. In 'Silver Edition', a 10CD set by Klaus Schulze, Disc 3 is live material from 1976, and the notes for this disc go on to say that yes, "the wheeling tape recorder, a revox, was indeed used to produce a permanent tape echo(delay)" obviously for sound enhancement...There is also a beautiful CD entitled 'Timewind' in which the first piece, Bayreuth Return, was played with the same delay/echo effect done by using this running tape recorder concept. Anyway, I'd probably do well by looking deeper into info on Terry Riley as this artist might hold one of the keys to this mystery. The bigger point and one of the other main reasons for bringing this to ET, was that when I read the liner notes to 1999, Live in Argentina soundscapes release where RF indicates the use of the tape delay process and upon hearing the Scapes, the Berlin School sound came immediately to mind and I was also extremely appreciative that Fripp indeed had this floating, spacey, synthetic side to him that sounds like everything but the Fripp we were all used to. Thanks for all responses, on or off the ET. dv ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 22:17:23 +0100 From: "D. Chinn" Subject: No-Man's Tim Bowness on working with Fripp (part 1) Hi all, There's a lengthy interview up on the homepage of the British avant-pop band No-Man. In this, their singer Tim Bowness talks about many things including his own experience of working with Robert Fripp and (another twist in that old "dream lineup" thread) the suggestion of a Crimson/No-Man fusion. I thought I'd provide other ET-ers with a cut-down version of the portion of the chat relating directly to Crimsonic matters. Robert worked with No-Man during his Indian summer of collaborative efforts in the early '90s, a period that included work with The Beloved, FFWD, Future Sound Of London and of course David Sylvian. During this time he seemed to have a real enthusiasm for working with the next few generation of musicians, and No-Man certainly benefitted. I'll send in Tim's thoughts on the Crimson/No-Man hybrid for the next ET in order not to hog too much bandwidth. For now, though, here's the part relating to the Fripp session. Among other things, it gives an example of what it's like working with an Eno-esque method of Oblique Strategies. (Asked about working with people like RF and Mel Collins - both of whom played on No-Man's 1994 "Flowermouth" album along with former Japan/Rain Tree Crow percussionist Steve Jansen, jazz trumpeter Ian Carr, and Porcupine Tree's drummer Chris Maitland - Tim said:) "I think that all good collaboration comes from mutual respect, and I think that that was the case in almost all of the collaborations we've had. And really we've defined our territory. We'd provided the blueprint as a sketch for other people then to reinterpret and pervert. "We gave (Fripp) two ways of approaching the material. One was a set of obvious strategies where he'd been given instructions to perform on specific tracks in specific ways; the other one was that we just let him rip through the pieces in the way that he felt like. And the resulting solos were cobbled together by a combination of both those elements: both of specific instructions - an example of that would be the solo in 'Teardrop Fall' - or things that he'd actually come up with on the moment in response to the tracks - the coda to 'Simple' being a fine example of that. In the case especially of Fripp and Collins, they lived and breathed music, and they were just reacting automatically to the sketch that we'd presented them with. I think it was a great meeting point of our quite uniquely defined blueprint and their very unique responses to that blueprint... As an experience it was inspiring... Fripp didn't disappoint in any way as a player or a personality; the same with Collins. The sessions were quite straightforward and effortless, and hugely enjoyable and inspiring." (Asked about specific memories from the sessions, and about RF's own mannerisms, reactions etc., Tim replied:) "Well, I'm not sure how many people know about this, but for one of the processes we'd cut out images from the history of rock. And if we wanted him to play in a certain style - say, hoary old rock'n'roll - we'd show him a photograph of Buddy Holly. If we wanted epic pomposity, we had this wonderful Brian May photograph that we used to put in his face. (laughter) Similarly, actually draped over the speaker was an image of Rick Wakeman in a golden cape! (more laughter). We created a certain atmosphere from which we wanted the solos to spring. It was fun! (chuckles). As much as anything else... "He would react to the 'rock icons' that we'd thrown at him. For example his line on Rick Wakeman was 'bad timekeeper' so, um... (giggles) we didn't want bad timekeeping in the track, but maybe that's what he thought the instructions were! One of his stranger reactions was when we wanted some sort of hugely guttural, chunky funk riffs and we had a photograph of Jimmy Page circa 'Houses Of The Holy' at which point he merely gesticulated towards vomiting, which was probably the result you can hear on the track. One example I do remember was the solo in 'Teardrop Fall' where I'd suggested some kind of demented '90s rock'n'roll response, so the photograph was the one of Buddy Holly, and it was this idea of twisted '90s rock'n'roll filtered through Fripp's imagination. Which I think we got. He then came up with his own response to this, which was a much more synthetic processed guitar sound which we didn't like. He then urged us to keep what we didn't like, and was turning round either to myself or Steven and saying 'This is the sound you should go with. This is the sound of the future. You should ignore that Fripp-by-numbers that you have', and so on and so forth. So there were examples of him urging us to keep a take that we didn't, and being quite forcible about it." (Asked whether he would like to work with RF again, Tim was enthusiastic:) "Yeah! I mean, it was a session without complications and with extremely far-reaching results. So of course I think that, once we've exhausted our delightfully named 'Fripp Slave ADAT' (laughter), it will be nice to work with him again." Soundscape addicts should note that parts of that 'Fripp Slave ADAT' have since shown up on various No-Man albums and EPs from 1994 to 1997, (as well as on Steven Wilson's experimental electronica project Bass Communion). And most of it sounds pretty convincing. The No-Man site is at http://www.collective.co.uk/noman and the interview itself can be accessed directly at http://www.collective.co.uk/noman/speak.html Happy reading. Dann Chinn dchinn at btinternet dot com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 21:32:35 -0400 From: tj Subject: GuM? >From DGM usa news: >For any "Road Rules" (MTV) >watchers, you may want to check >out the next two Mondays to listen >for tracks for GuM, a new side >project from Pat M. Wish there was net info about GuM. We might be an interested audience. tj dc-et #2 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 21:52:53 -0400 From: tj Subject: Pat news A small catch about Pat from a MrMr website: "Pat Mastelotto is currently working on an album with my friend Cenk Eroglu from Turkey. An album under the name Mastel@ottoman should be expected by the end of the year." Dig it. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 10:29:54 -0700 From: "adrian goldwater" Subject: KC SALE KING CRIMSON, 1 page red/black press release LP Discipline 19.00 KING CRIMSON, b/s pass Rome '73 `Larks Tongue In Aspic' 40.00 KING CRIMSON, Backstage card pass Rome/Italy 13/11/73 40.00 KING CRIMSON, Backstage card pass Rome/Italy 6/4/73 42.00 KING CRIMSON, Concert poster `Dusseldorf 7/5/95 22.00 KING CRIMSON, Front cvr UK mag `Beat Instrumental' Jan '72 14.00 KING CRIMSON, Oversized promo postcard with Tour Dates '78 12.50 KING CRIMSON/K.AYERS/J.MARTYN/UFO, Island Rec. Catalogue 75 14.00 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 12:13:11 +0100 From: "Jonathan Casey" Subject: An Observation and a Query Hello ETeam, Here's a little observation... Anyone out there notice that the latter section of LTiA III, bears a striking resemblance to the beginning of The Beatles song "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band"? The arrangement of instruments, the sound, the rhythm; take a listen, I think you will agree that it's a conscious reference. Of course, being King Crimson, the chord changes go ballistic, with increments in semitones, so it's like Beatles covers on the PA in Hell's Supermarket. This bit gets a little more circumstantial - but I'll still stand by it. Fripp once commented that he was working on a "Lark's Tounges in Aspic 4" when writing pieces for THRAK, but that the title itself would draw with it a weight of expectancy from nostalgic listener. Now, the smart money says that VROOOM and VROOOM VROOOM are what became of LTiA 4. Check out the VROOOM EP version of the former track - it seems the direct reference idea took on a new level of experimentation. The arrangement, rhythm, and sound are still there, but the composition is moving in to scary, industrial territory. Then VROOOM VROOOM Coda comes along, and takes the biscuit. Following the lineage of the concept, you could say that this piece is simply the most disturbing, violent version of "Sgt. Pepper's..." you could possible imagine. And now, here's a query... I read in a biography of Peter Gabriel, that a South Bank Show was dedicated to the making of his fourth album (informally known as "Security"). Does anyone have any idea how I could get my hands on this? Cheers for now, Arch Stanton. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 18:57:10 +0700 From: T Ismail Reza Subject: Avant Garde Hello; I'm new here and this is my first posting- (even though I've been into King Crimson for ages-) For me, KC always been ahead of its time, especially compared to any "prog-group" from the same era, even now. So that brought up an idea; Could we describe the music of King Crimson as "Avant Garde"? The problem is, mostly people around me believe that Avant Garde means strange, uncommon musical instruments (toothbrush, tin bucket, etc), and several respons upon the idea of King Crimson as an Avant Garde group is against it. But many people believe KC as a progressive-rock group; although for me the genre was already to small for KC. Well, I do need some light here. Would you like to share some of yours? ^_^ Cheers! The Schizoid One; Reza! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 12:15:34 EDT From: "James Crary" Subject: For ET: The Ululating Whisper When I first heard "No Pussyfooting" by Fripp 'n Eno as a young boy and was at the age when I was easily led on into my opinions, Swastika Girls struck me as engaging, but heavy. Later, in high school, when various Jewish intellectuals got around to talking about Fripp in Juilliard sessions, they referred to his work with Eno as "minimalism" and introduced me to the humanist and charming Steve Reich and the much less personable, if more accessible, Philip Glass. Still, I found the terms elusive, but not being familiar with the concept I was sensing, or appreciably eloquent in the English tongue, I was forced, imitatively, to "file that" away. A course in Sufism and over a decade later, I guess "audiative absolutism" describes King/merry-Bob's epics with techno-gaga Eno a little less plagaristically and a heap of a lot more accurately. What Fripp had actually done with Pussyfotting was introduce a generation of "stuck in the head" Doublemint gum commericals to the idea of a presence where music was consciously at work in what Gurdjieff called one's "being-mentations" 24 hours a day, eight days a week; in the magic circle of thought, intuition, as a foreplay of craft. At least, that's what I thought the works of music meant. I hardly can deny beautiful experiences of meditation came to me because of this funky, enchanting piece. Fripp's an inspirational soul-catcher, no doubt about Bob. A similar explanation for Sinfield's lyrics has proven more elusive. Maybe Noam Chomsky could give one. At the dawn of human expression, which came first, the whisper or the ululation? James Crary ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 17:19:18 -0500 From: Loren Karnick Subject: Let The Power Fall In the most recent ET, someone mentioned that 800.com was selling this disc at the unbelieveable price of $0.45. Not one to let a bargain pass and immediately signed on and found that the info was correct. Not only that, but they have an electric coupon good for 800 cents off ($8.00) off any order over $15.00. Not to plug any retailer, but their listing of things crimson is extensive, so no one would be remiss in hitting this site. I will see whether they come through, I can only keep my fingers crossed. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 13:03:39 -0400 From: "Dan B." Subject: A somewhat trivial question I read that Robert is naturally left-handed, though he plays guitar in a traditional right-handed fashion. Is this true? If so, this might explain partially his technique of imposing interval/octave jumps. This would 'seem' easier with one's naturally stronger, dominant hand doing the fretting. Of course, the inspiration to create has a much larger focus. -- "I don't want to spend my life explaining myself. Either you get it or you don't." -- Frank Zappa ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 04:18:21 -0500 From: dziura at megsinet dot net Subject: GIG REVIEW: Adrian Belew Had the pleasure of seeing, hearing, meeting Mr. Belew as he played Fitzgerald's outside Chicago. Opening act The Irresponsibles (from Boston, MA) presented an infectious set of gonzo pop that left no doubt as to why Mr. Belew agreed to produce their first album (complete with self-described "kiss ass" track "Dear Mr. Belew.") Mr. Belew's set was familiar, yet challenging as he performed many of the requisite tunes you would expect to hear on a "Salad Days" best-of tour. His voice continues to dazzle me as much as his brilliant fretwork. Great moment: Near the end of the show as he tried unsuccessfully to keep one of his acoustics in tune (no doubt due to Chicago's recent tropical forest heat and humidity wave), Adrian says, "I'm not going to subject you to this. I can play you something else" and whips his Strat back into place for a short and sweet rendition of "Heartbeat." Adrian was extremely cordial and the crowd of approx 150 was very enthusiastic (and overwhelmingly male, as my wife pointed out). Much of the Q and A and request segments fell to KC matters, much of which has already been described here. To add: Fripp will be arriving in Nashville on Aug. 15 and the two will begin composing on Aug. 17 "after Mr. Fripp spends Aug. 16 in his usual three-movie jet-lag mode," Adrian says. Touring? Late in the year, he speculated. Bottom line: check out few remaining dates of the tour, if you can. Gotta go--no late seating ... Jordan Dziura ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #603 ********************************