Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #602 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 602 Saturday, 24 July 1999 Today's Topics: David Sylvian Re: remastered KC Review: KC's "Cirkus" remasters; GD reissue Local venues Re: The King and his TOOL Didyoukno Bicker, Banter, Brouhaha no apologies! Fripp & VDGG Egad, "crim-heads".... Re-re-remasters Younger Crim fans / first two albums Re: ProjeKct in Nashville & ET Convention Fripp's effects/pedals Re: Venue Query The fifth Greenslade album Adrian and The Future Crim ELP/Yes Tour Country Disco Re: Great Deceiver and USA II/Asbury PArk Re: Survey Re:Age Russian Earthbound CD....remastered? OT: Schulze & Revoxes Review of "Gordian Knot" now online Eddie Jobson interview The Sound of RED Mellotron REVIEW: Suzi Katz "Three Day Rain" GREAT DECEPTION VdGG/PH thanks Crimson CDs Abroad the future of music ? Let The Power Fall for 45 Cents! GIG REVIEW: Adrian Belew, Coach House 7/15 ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.5b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- From: "John O'Connor" Subject: David Sylvian Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 17:22:07 +0100 There is an interesting profile of David Sylvian in the August issue of future music. On the subject of The first day/damage he is quoted as saying "Although I'll happily stand by anything I've recorded since 1983 when I had a huge shift in my focus on the songwriting process and indeed my personal life. I would say that I'm not particularly close to the Robert Fripp recordings. I learned a lot from them though , which is invaluable" I find this somewhat disappointing even though the quote ends on a positive note. I personally consider the first day/damage project a huge success with both artists drawing on each others energies in a highly positive way. The remote dream of any future collaborations seems to be ruled out given David's negative view. However, his new album "Dead Bees on a Cake" has IMHO definitely been influenced by the RF collaboration. The first track surrender reminds me a bit of early Crim especially the flute sections. The rest of the album is very ambient/moody with David using his voice like an instrument, kinda reminded me of John Martyn's Solid Air. Be interested if any other Crim enjoyed it as much as me. John O'Connor Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana Groucho Mrx ------------------------------ Date: 21 Jul 99 12:23:52 EDT From: James Dusewicz Subject: Re: remastered KC I would tend to wait on the KC remasters myself. I have all of the KC (1989) remasters and will probably pass on the new batch if/when they appear. As far as the whole reissue/remaster issue goes, I would love to get several band's CD remaster/reissues. The Allman Brothers Band come to mind. I only bought the first album in reissue because their is a change from the prior CD in that on the original tapes, a new segment appears at the end of "Don't Want You No More>It's Not my Cross to Bear". My Pink Floyd collection is half reisssue/remaster(early stuff) and half previous issue CDs(from Wish You Were Here, on). My Genesis collection is all reissue/remaster. But I had a similar problem with my Jefferson Airplane collection. After I had purchased the last CD, they started releasing the remaster/reissue versions. So I had to immediately dump those purchsed CDs. jim campaigner at usa dot net James Dusewicz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 19:48:40 +0200 From: Henning Schnoor Subject: Review: KC's "Cirkus" I found King Crimson's "Cirkus" in a record store today, and since the "Great Deciever" re-release has been pushed back again, I bought this one. First, about the tracklist: The pieces are really very well chosen. With a band that has had as many line-up changes as Crimson, it's difficult to compile a "Guide". I think this 2 CD set really gives the listener a sort of "overview", and it's great to see material from P1&2 here. But it's kind of strange to have a recorfing of "Talking Drum" from 1973 leading into a 96 performance of "Lark#s Tongue in Aspic II". But, as KC fans know, "strange" isn't necessarily a negative thing. Second, the sound quality: It's great to have bootleg atmosphere on an official release :-)) Seriously, I was surprised how good the 69 recordings sound. Whoever is responsible for cleaning this up, please let me know how you did it :-)) I think the 96 show doesn't sound as good as it could have, but of course I don't know what kind of equipment has been used for recording the show originally. The performances are as good as we've come to expect from Crimson. The highlight for me is "Starless", my favourite Crimson piece of music. It's really interesting to compare this to the "Red" version - Cross really makes a difference. It's interesting to hear the different lyrics. The live recordings of the double-trio shows proof the 81-84 Crimson material just gets better with more players involved. Bottom line - this is really a great compilation & teaser for the box sets. I've been waiting for the "Great Deciever" re-release for quite some time now, and "Cirkus" also makes me think about getting the "Epitath" box. A great package, BTW with very interesting photos of the different players in the booklet. Henning Schnoor -- http://schnoor.cruise.de ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 14:57:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven Sullivan Subject: remasters; GD reissue > I'm pretty skeptical when it comes to re-mastering, > especially KC remasters. I have heard a number of different > editions of ITCOTCK, arguably the best candidate for > remastering as it pushed the limits of recording technology > in its day. AFAIR from my reading, ITCotCK was actually recorded under rather primitive conditions, even for its day. > Among the worst was an EG release (definitive edition? > master edition? I can't recall) on CD that was worse than > the "regular" CD release owned by a friend of mine. Two > vinyl copies were ranked in there as well: a standard copy > fell between the two CDs, and the best of all, the Holy > Grail of sonic beauty for ITCOTCK, was/is my Mobile Fidelity > Sound Labs half-speed original master recording. > This release doesn't officially exist! The story I heard at > the time was that Atlantic improperly let MFSL borrow the > master when in fact they had no legal right to do so. > Whether Mr. Fripp demanded the return of all extant copies > or it was blocked from general release is unknown to me, but > it doesn't appear on any of MFSL's release lists, and isn't > listed in any of the catalogs record stores use to find > records both in and out of print. (For the curious, my copy > bears the ID MFSL 1-075). In fact, I had an argument one > day with the owner of a store that specialized in > used/out-of-print/hard-to-find records over this; he swore I > was wrong, that it wasn't a Mobile Fidelity disk until I > brought it into him one day. He promptly offered me $50 for > it, and this was in '84! Fripp might be interested to know this -- could it be that the original master of ITCotCK is actually still in MofI's vaults?? (Also -- how'd you get a copy?) Editions EG released half-speed mastered LPs of the KC catalog in the 80's, IIRC. ANyone know if ITCotCK was part of that series? > My point, which I've strayed from, is that sometimes these > remixes can be bad things! The EG release mentioned above > continues to be the worst version I've heard. Don't despair > that you don't have the latest remix; try to listen before > you buy to see which you like better. Most of the KC back-catalog CDs aren't remixed. THe only remixed tracks I'm aware of were 'Matte Kudesai' on Discipline, and the use of an alternate mix on 'Sleepless'. > Does anyone know why there has been a delay in re-releasing > _The Great Deceiver_? I would have thought that all they > had to do was take the old packaging, the old masters, and > ship it out. Are extensive changes known to be planned? According to Fripp's diary, the delay has been due to problems obtaining the original artwork. Apprently this has now been worked out. It's still not clear to me whether the set will be sonically 'upgraded' or not. ------------------------------ From: "Brian T. Perkins" Subject: Local venues Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 11:53:02 -0700 >Could ETers have an influence on what venues the future Crim >plays in? Here's my vote: The Aladdin Theater: Portland, Oregon! Cheers, Brian ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 13:55:40 -0700 From: "M. Cornelis van der Weele IV" Subject: Re: The King and his TOOL > [re Tool] I'm not sure which one(s) of them is the KC/Fripp > enthusiast. It might the guitarist (Adam Jones) - he rarely > solos, but on the last track of Aenima there's a very > Fripp-like feel to the solo in there. The entire band, > however, share many of the DGM sensibilities about artistic > freedom, including lawsuit and everything with their > management, etc. Actually, in an odd twist of coincidence, Danny Carey happens to be from my hometown (Paola, Kansas) so I've seen several interviews/articles with him in the local paper. Thgouh KC was not specifically mentioned, his father made a point of citing Danny's heavy prog influence as a drummer. I remember him specifically mentioning Danny staying in his room and practicing along with ELP albums and such. Since the issue of Danny's meter had come up, I thought I'd mention this. My friends and I had gotten into Tool way before even knowing who KC was. ;) ~Cornelis~ ------------------------------ From: "Al Murray" Subject: Didyoukno Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 20:14:01 +0100 Patrick wrote: TOOL Bass player Justin Chancellor comments: "We met a lot of people who were kind of the hot producers of the moment, and they all seemed to be able to do a good job - but they had a kind of attitude. We wanted someone who could push the sounds a bit, and we all enjoy King Crimson Well, you might not know this but when Justin was in a band called Peach back here in the UK [from which he was poached to join Tool, after Peach supported Tool - short version] Peach did a cover of... wait for it... Cat Food. It's not bad - I've got it on vinyl somewhere. Cheers! Al ------------------------------ From: "GARY WEIMER" Subject: Bicker, Banter, Brouhaha Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 13:14:48 PDT Maybe it's just me, but I find Tool to be a shallow, droning imitation of a real band. I will admit, though, that I find the vocals excellent. I've never heard anyone so effectively capture not only the style, but the phrasings, of Ian Anderson. As far as the similarities between ITCOTCK and Poseidon, there might be some truth, but I think it's very minute. Pictures of a City seems a bit like Schizoid Man, but the break slips into this jazzy thing instead complete pandemonium. Cat Food is also a much more edgy, jazzy type of song held up against ITCOTCK. Then again, we must remember the philosophy of so much of the recording industry - If the public loved it once, by all means, make sure you do it all over again. As a young band, KC might have had some pressure exerted on them. I think Poseidon is varied enough in content, and similar enough in approach, to have walked the tightrope between caving in and moving forward. ------------------------------ From: "Tom McCarter" Subject: no apologies! Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 23:59:33 -0700 I don't want to hear any more apologies about being a Fripp fan. All this nonsense about what OTHER people think of us- Star Trek fans, etc.- who cares. They are missing the boat, simply because they don't have an adventurous ear! Let them listen to the Carpenters. They're safe. You don't have to think when you listen to them. If your wife doesn't understand, DON'T BRING HER! Listen - Fripp is a genius and he surrounds himself with awesome musicians. What more do you want? There is nothing to understand. You either get it or you don't. From where I stand, if you get it, you're one of the lucky few. Stop apologizing! - Tom McCarter (tgmc at jps dot net) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 01:10:09 -0500 From: Craig Shropshire Subject: Fripp & VDGG In ET #601 Chris Mcgarel states......... >I bought 'Vital - Van der Graaf Live' the other day cos it was cheap >and am hooked. Very KC in places particularly the more drawn out >instrumental passages. It occurred to me that many of the younger ETers may not be aware of Van Der Graaf Generator. The above title by them "Vital" is a monster! It has some of the most outrageously powerful fuzz-bass this side of Bernard Paganotti (Magma), & wonderful violin to boot. GET IT! You can`t go wrong..................... Also, of course, their classic masterpiece "Pawn Hearts", which happens to feature Bob Fripp on guitar. (He`s also on a track on "H To HE...." & P Hammill`s solo "Fool`s Mate" BTW). -Craig ------------------------------ From: KSozay at webtv dot net Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 01:47:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Egad, "crim-heads".... Hello, Forgive me for making an ass of myself in advance, but his has been bothering me for days. When did we start calling ourselves "crim-heads"? The connection with "dead-heads" is most distasteful, especially when the "deadhead" movement, (in America anyway), seems to have degenerated into a bunch of glassy-eyed, upper middle class twentysomethings, who wold follow Starship around if it meant that they wouldn't have to work another summer. There must be another title we can give ourselves. Cheers, Kyle ------------------------------ From: "John & Sharon" Subject: Re-re-remasters Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 09:13:53 +0800 Joe Hartley wrote of the MoFi ITCOTCK- I too had a copy of this many years ago & it was as good if not better than an early Island (picture of an island on label) pressing. The KC catalog was markedly inferior on Polydor repressings (be warned- compression reigns supreme) The holy vinyl grail for KC hunters should be a UK Island copy of Islands. It's hard to believe how much sonic degradation has occured over the years compared with the original vinyl. Anybody know what happened to the tape that introduced the phase shift & crackling noises?Let's hope the remasters restore Islands to its former glory. Anyone know anything about the Japanese vinyl replica editions available recently? yours John Buchanan ------------------------------ From: bozmn at intercom dot net Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 16:32:12 -0400 Subject: Younger Crim fans / first two albums I'm yet another of the younger generation of Crim fans. (born in '82--yesterday was my 17th birthday) Most of my favorite things to listen to, in fact, are from the 60's to the 80's: Crimson, ELP, Yes, Genesis, the Who, XTC, Zappa, Rush, etc. And regarding the ItCotCK/ITWoP parallel: I think "Devil's Triangle" is based on their arrangement of Holst's "Mars". From what I remember, as well (haven't listened to ITWoP in a while), the title tracks are somewhat similar. I guess they were running out of ideas or something... Cole ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 16:11:41 -0400 From: Gary Davis Subject: Re: ProjeKct in Nashville & ET Convention At 07:02 PM 7/21/99 GMT, Steven wrote: >In the first DGM newsletter, this was written: > >"ProjeKct, comprising Robert Fripp, Adrian Belew, Trey Gunn >and Pat Mastelotto are planning a 1 week concert residency >in Nashville in the fall. Exact dates have not yet been >confirmed." > >And in ET#448, the first issue of 1998, Toby Howard wrote: > >"And you know, we really ought to arrange an International >ETers convention one of these days... somewhere sunny would >be nice " > >Hmmm. I don't know how sunny it is in Nashville in the fall, >but I can't think of a better opportunity for such a >convention to take place. I also can't begin to imagine how >difficult setting up a convention could be. My guess is, we >could make it as simple or as complex as we want: if >anything, have local ET chapters announce who's coming and >arrange informal meeting places. Perhaps those ETers who >decide to go would want to meet up with other ETers from >around the country. Anyway I put the idea out there for us >to banter about, with much ballyhoo and broohaha of course. Well, I'd certainly want to banter about this. Sounds like a neat idea! I don't know how structured people would want this to be, but here are some things to consider. 1) We need to get an absolute confirmation on dates, times and venue(s) for these performances. To set all this up and have the dates cancelled for whatever reason would not be good! I'm sure that the band would want to cooperate, though, as it would definitely mean increased ticket sales for the concerts. 2) The convention should be over the weekend. Obviously more people would be able to come given they'd miss less work. Also airline ticket prices are usually cheaper if arrival and departure are separated by a weekend. (although it should be mentioned that Nashville being where it is geographically makes it within a day's drive from almost anywhere in the US east of the Mississippi River!) 3) It would be good if we all stayed in the same hotel. Not only would this make for easier socialization, but then we could get convention rates! This would require someone (preferably an ETer who lives in the area) to scout the hotels and make arrangements with one of them. And given convention rates, it means we wouldn't need to stay at the cheapest place in town. We could get a really decent place. And those that wished to save more money on the rooms could do so by sharing a room. There should be a swimming pool, lounge, restaurant and decent places to visit within walking distance. Speaking of walking distance, it would be nice if the hotel were withing walkin distance of the venue, too. But if not, I suppose car pooling and/or bus rental is also an option. 4) Decent convention space should also be taken into consideration when selecting a hotel. I don't know how structured people would want to make this event, but many hotels will give discounts on convention space or even give it freely depending on how many rooms are booked during that time! There are a variety of things that could be done with the space. We could watch KC videos. Perhaps we could get some of the band members to come and give a lecture. Maybe we could even hire a band - Earthworks, BLUE, CGT? Anyway, just some food for thought. So we need to find out as soon as possible when this concert residency is going to take place. Then identify a person in Nashville who's willing to scout and report on possible hotels. Also one person or a group of persons needs to step forward to lead this venture. For my part, I'm willing to help promote the event through my newsletter and appropriate pages on The Artist Shop's website. Gary ************************************************************** Gary Davis The Artist Shop The Other Road http://www.artist-shop.com artshop at artist-shop dot com phone: 330-929-2056 fax:330-945-4923 SUPPORT THE INDEPENDENT ARTIST!!! ************************************************************** Check out the latest Artist Shop newsletter at http://www.artist-shop.com/news.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 18:29:01 -0300 From: Daniel Gomez Casanouve Subject: Fripp's effects/pedals Hello ETers: does anybody know which effects/pedals Fripp used back in '69 to '71 Crimson guitar work (linked to his Les Paul Custom and Hiwatt amps)? Great sustain indeed! Thanks everybody. Daniel Gomez Casanouve. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 16:46:39 -0400 From: Bayard Brewin Subject: Re: Venue Query In ET601, TJ queried: > Could ETers have an influence on what venues the future Crim > plays in? Finally!!! The core KC issue ET can address! :-) :-) [1] Enough of these crass alcohol/tobacco abbatoirs foisted upon us by the front-line apologists of the Entertainment Machine. Where is it writ large that we have to volunteer for conditions that would be unacceptable on public transit in order to hear music (presuming you even can)? Thank you, NO -- if getting bombed is the mission, I can accomplish that at home in far more amenable surroundings and company, for a fraction of the cost. There is nothing "genuine" about a listening experience that combines the finer points of a latrine, elevator, factory PA, and detox center. [2] I admire Fripp's quixotic effort to draw in a more diverse demographic to these events, but I should think the crowd at the gate is sufficient evidence that this effort has a long way to go. If you know in the present you're playing primarily to middle-aged, middle-class heads-of-family, why not choose your tour venues and schedules to match for that reason alone? For example, earlier times, places with better access from surrounding suburbs, etc. [3] Given the huge number of academic sites with exceptional (and underwritten!) assembly facilities, why on earth would one even consider putting on an event in some dank "concert hall" maintained barely to public health and safety standards, with every facet controlled by usurious "management" companies? If migrating the demographics of his audience is an important mission to Fripp, I should think this would be sufficient reason to exclusively target college campuses and communities. And think of the additional control this provides over all sorts of event features: ages, special dispensation to local musicians, CC members, ETers (ahem) ... [4] Please don't read this as a call for The Unplugged Tour ... but I wonder if it's really necessary in 1999 to have a house mix that's capable of removing amalgam fillings at a distance of a quarter-mile. The only conditions I can imagine that addressing is an audience that doesn't give enough of a shit to listen consistently. I should think that the right facility, and a reasonable amount of self-policing in the audience, would solve that problem nicely. [5] At the risk of really knocking it on the head -- more assertive signage and announcements on the subject of Audience Recordings. Again, a more sane facility should help address that issue, but erring on the side of irritation is probably a good idea. Also, occasional real-time accommodations to the issue, such as modest-quality (i.e., unlikely to bootleg) RealAudio streams, would be a welcome recognition by DGM that the will to attend may not match the ability. (Ask any recent parent.) [6] We're all here already, DGM, so Put The Tickets Here. Or There. Just don't make us pay tribute to billionaires like Paul Allen just to see your shows. Having worked on several e-commerce sites, I'm confident you can farm out development of a ticket-serving application that can meet the needs of a modest tour, at a very reasonable budget -- maybe less than you're losing otherwise in "handling" and other opportunity-loss costs to the likes of Ticketwanker. Plus, it's direct contact with your most ardent and moveable audience -- an opportunity to do something other than a Transaction. Bayard Brewin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 16:17:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Tanigawa Subject: The fifth Greenslade album In a previous post I mentioned that Andy McCullough (from the "Lizard" edition of KC) appeared on "the four Greenslade albums". I was mistaken. There is a fifth album "Live" of performances from 1973 and 1975. I found a copy of it this weekend at CD Warehouse in Sunnyvale, CA. For a single cd, this British import was rather expensive, over $20. This is the only live non-bootleg I know of that features McCullough (Greenslade himself appears on at least one live Colosseum album). Everyone does as excellent a job in concert as on the studio albums. The liner notes were written in April 1999 by Dave Greenslade. He states that the four original members (Greenslade, Dave Lawson, Tony Reeves, McCullough) may be reforming the band in the near future. I hope they come to San Francisco, but the fact that none of their albums are currently issued in the US makes that possibility seem remote. As an off-topic, can anyone tell me where I could get the first two albums of the Graham Bond Organisation? Mike ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 06:36:24 -0600 From: "Steven Sthole" Subject: Adrian and The Future Crim As an addendum to my previous post, I have some news to impart after having seen Adrian Belew perform in Denver last night (July 21). This post is not really intended as a gig review, however: Let me say at the beginning that, before last night, I had always thought of Adrian in terms of his role in King Crimson. Sure, I've got some of his solo CDs. But his place in my mind as a performer was always "subservient" to his place in King Crimson. This is no longer the case for me. Last night Adrian proved that he has what it takes to walk out in front of a crowd with two acoustics and one electric guitar and truly become a one man show. He floored us with his virtuosity, his vast musical repertoire, his good humor, and a natural raport with the audience. More importantly for me as a guitarist, Adrian entered and exclusive little club of guitar players that I have seen perform live, that possess such a command of the instrument, they have entered a special place in my heart: Leo Kottke, Michael Hedges, and Jimi Hendrix. (Enough, I'll hop off my soapbox now). Last night, between songs, Adrian had a few things to say about some of his ongoing projects (ProjeKcts?). Foremost perhaps, was this little tidbit: King Crimson *will* record a new album and King Crimson *will* tour next year. Also, you may recall in ET#601, when I quoted DGM newsletter #1: "ProjeKct, comprising Robert Fripp, Adrian Belew, Trey Gunn and Pat Mastelotto are planning a 1 week concert residency in Nashville in the fall. Exact dates have not yet been confirmed." When Adrian spoke of this event last night, he specifically referred to it as a recording session at his home/studio in Nashville. He made no reference to a live concert. He seemed to indicate to the crowd that Robert, Trey, Pat would accompany him in a recording project that would serve as a rehearsal for Crimson. I asked him about this after the show, pointing out that the first DGM newsletter specifies a "1 week concert residency" in Nashville. His comment, to paraphrase, was something like: "well, those things often get changed around a lot". Of course it's possible these plans were announced to DGM while Adrian was busy on his Coming Attractions tour. And, the "Exact dates have not yet been confirmed" part of the DGM blurb indicates this as well within the planning stages. I do hope that this ProjeKct event in Nashville will happen in the public arena. And it's gratifying to know that the King will soon be with us again. -Steve * Steven W. Sthole * COIN Y2K * Colorado Department of Human Services * Steven dot Sthole at state dot co dot us * home : sws at rmi dot net ************************************************** ------------------------------ From: "Kurt McClintock" Subject: ELP/Yes Tour Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 09:35:51 -0400 Having heard that ELP is re-forming to join Yes on tour later this year, I would love to see Robert Fripp, Bill Bruford and John Wetton be invited to come along... just imagine the interesting possible combinations/reunions that would be on stage. Kurt McClintock kurtmcc at triton dot net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 09:36:17 -0600 Subject: Country Disco From: "Mary Rogers" Country Disco I saw Adrian Belew and the Irresponsibles last night at the Bluebird Theater in Denver. I've seen Adrian with Zappa, Bowie, Talking Heads, Krimson and now finally solo. With all of the Bad Boys of Rock out there, it sure is nice to see a Good Guy! It was a good, mature audience, although there was this one guy (and there alway seem to be this one guy -- does he travel to all of the shows just to irritate us?) that bellowed "Belew!" whenever there was a quiet spot. He eventually shut up, I don't know if somebody ribbed him or what. While we were heading out west on Colfax, we passed a sign a sign that said "Country Disco." That's the worst thing I've heard of since "Christian Rap." (And don't get me wrong, I especially love yuletide music such as "The First Noel," "O Holy Night" and "Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer.") With all of the hub-bub concerning "Fracture" lately, I decided to give my Starless and Bible Black CD a spin, for the first time in a long while. I was pleasantly surprised. While I can't say I like S&BB as much as the Lark's Tongues, Red, In the Court, and Discipline albums, I was impressed by its quality! Similarly, while I can't say I like "Fracture" quite as well as its Frippian compadres "Larks Tongues II" and "Red," it is quite the the tune. Saturday is Ozric Tentacles! Bill JaKcobson "Today's country/western music is neither of either." --Katie Lee ------------------------------ From: DanKirkd at aol dot com Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 12:15:44 EDT Subject: Re: Great Deceiver and USA II/Asbury PArk In ET# 601 (gosh that's a lot of ETs!), Jason asked: "Does anyone know why there has been a delay in re-releasing _The Great Deceiver_? I would have thought that all they had to do was take the old packaging, the old masters, and ship it out. Are extensive changes known to be planned? Does anyone have any information on the USAII/Asbury Park double CD release described in the releases page?" Well, the first DGM NEW mailing indicated that "Those waiting for the reissue of "The Great Deceiver" must continue to be patient. Although the rights to this album have reverted to Discipline, its re-release has been delayed due to a number of missing parts (we have not been sent all the necessary films for the art work!). The missing items are being painstakingly reassembled and "The Great Deceiver" should be reissued before the end of the year." As for the USA II/Asbury Park release, my reliable sources indicate that the plan (for now - all things can change), is that this would be a Virgin release that will hopefully appeal to all camps in the USA debate, with one CD being the original LP release, including overdubs, and the other CD being the entire Asbury Park concert, sans overdubs. If you look at Survey #7 we took at ET Web a year ago, you'll see that one issue was the length of the entire show, when Starless, Fracture and the entire Asbury Park Improv are added, so knowing the original USA LP wasn't that long, I imagine the Asbury Park concert will actually span the two CDs. Anyway, I expect we'll get more news from DGM when the time is right. For now this is targeted for release next year sometime. Dan ET Web ------------------------------ From: DanKirkd at aol dot com Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 12:24:45 EDT Subject: Re: Survey In ET #601 tj asked about redoing a survey. Actually, we will probably do so, because it would be interesting to see how time changes the answers. If you have any suggestions for a survey question feel free to send them to me. BTW, in survey #5 we tried to get a gauge on ET demographics (at least with respect to the population that answers surveys), and 10% of the respondants placed themselves in the 19 or younger category. Interestingly enough, that age group, like every other tended to like the 1972-74 incarnation of King Crimson the best. You can check out all the past surveys at ET Web. Cheers, Dan ET Web ------------------------------ From: "Toni Suominen" Subject: Re:Age Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 22:39:16 +0300 Oscar Olsson wrote: >I'm sure that there has to be several other teenagers out "there" >who like >Crimson. Or..? Yep! Here's one. I'm seventeen. Toni Suominen tono at mbnet dot fi ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 19:44:22 -0400 From: Erik DePoy Subject: Russian Earthbound CD....remastered? Shortly after submitting my last post regarding the Russian CD pressing of USA up for auction on Ebay, I noticed the same person is selling a CD copy of Earthbound, again a Russian pressing. When I bought my CD copy of USA at the infamous "Gorbushka" outdoor CD market in Moscow, I didn't notice Earthbound on sale or else I would have snapped it up in a flash. I'll have to take another look when I'm in Moscow next month. What I'm curious about is the claim that the Earthbound CD has been remastered. Here is the item's description: "This is not a CD-R, this is a 1999 factory pressing. Serial number: KCCD 005. Digitally remastered. Seeing the extremely low sound quality of the original recording it is remastered brilliantly. Nevertheless this is not an audiophile edition. Recommended only to a serious collector. Sometimes, especially on the first track, the voice of Boz Burrell is distorted. Not factory sealed (as all Russian CD's). Not used. The CD contains a frightening warning in Russian regarding unauthorized duplication. All the rest of the stuff is in English. Very hard to locate even in Russia." My guess is that someone worked on a cassette or 8-track copy of Earthbound with digital recording tools and is trying to pass it off as an official remaster. It may be that RF and David Singleton have actually remastered Earthbound (and USA for that matter) and somehow these Russian CD pirates got a hold of a copy and are now distributing it, but I rather doubt it. Whatever the truth, I am intrigued by the notion of a remastered Earthbound. As for the frightening warning in Russian regarding unauthorized duplication, I can only chuckle. Russian copyright infringement is an oxymoron if I've ever heard one. Nonetheless there does seem to be quite a demand for these discs. Two CD copies of USA have sold for $36 and $28 respectively, and the Earthbound CD eventually sold for a walloping $61. Let me remind you that they only cost about $1.75 in Moscow. There is another copy of Earthbound up for auction, and is presently at $20.50 with three days of bidding to go. Suffice to say that I will try to load up on CD copies of USA and Earthbound next month! Erik DePoy New York City ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 19:59:40 -0400 From: Douglas Otte Subject: OT: Schulze & Revoxes > A point I find curious on Fripp/Eno's 'No > Pussyfooting'(another great synthetic/electronic gem long > overlooked but now owned)and subsequent Soundscape releases > is the technique of using one or two A77 Revox tape machines > for delay and other sound modification. I am a huge Klaus > Schulze fan and on many of his 'Golden Age' analogue/space > recordings, this tecnique was utilized heavily(I think he > used only one). I can't remember if he takes credit for this > idea or if Eno started this...maybe someone even before Eno? > I've been a fan of KS since the mid-70s. I've read many things by & about him, & I've never heard of him using this delay technique, but I'm sure it's possible. In the 70s he did use 2 Revox reel-to-reel machines. If you look closely at the photo inside the case of the remastered "Moondawn" CD, or at some of the photos inside the "X" LP (the "X" CD doesn't include the photos), you can see 2 tape machines at his feet. I can see, though, that they are not set up with a one-tape loop. What were they used for - playing pre-recorded samples? That's possible. Or, were they for simply recording his sessions? I don't think that's the answer, but I don't know. I browsed the KS website (www.klaus-schulze.com), & his instrument listings from the 70s include "tape echo" in addition to "Revox" & "2nd Revox." -- ============================================ "Be careful with that! That's concentrated evil. It could turn you all into hermit crabs." - The Supreme Being, "Time Bandits" ============================================ ------------------------------ From: "Axel Bruns" Subject: Review of "Gordian Knot" now online Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 10:55:07 +1000 G'day ! Delurking here for a moment, I thought that some people here might be interested to know that a review of the _Gordian Knot_ CD, featuring Trey Gunn and Sean Malone among others, has just been published in M/C Reviews at http://www.uq.edu.au/mc/reviews/. The direct address for the review is http://www.uq.edu.au/mc/reviews/sounds/gordian.html. Any comments are more than welcome... Axel Bruns -- M/C - A Journal of Media and Culture mc at mailbox dot uq dot edu dot au The University of Queensland http://www.uq.edu.au/mc/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 08:39:10 +0200 From: Lennart Stahle Subject: Eddie Jobson interview I sent some questions to Eddie on tuesday and got the reply yesterday, thursday. here it goes... >How's the Legacy project coming along? Have you found a new singer? It's coming along very well, thank you. Next week I travel to Real World Studios in England to work a little more with Bill Bruford, followed by a trip to Bulgaria to record more new music with The Bulgarian Women's Choir who are performing on the album. I have not yet approached any singers for Legacy. There is still quite a lot to finish before I'm ready for vocals. >I guess you've done lots of music for Nash Bridges, any chance of >releasing it on cd? I've thought about it, but don't want to spend the time compiling/remixing at the moment. Don Johnson is into doing it... we'll see - down the road. >Do you use a midi'd violin? >if you do, do you rather add a strings sound or do you actually play a >synthesized sound? I have a Zeta midi violin which I may use on the album, but I haven't used it much yet. >Keith Emerson uses samplers for piano and organ sounds. What do you think >of the quality of modern samplers? The quality of a modern sampler is only as good as the samples you're using. A good set of piano samples is the way to go for live performance, but not in the studio where the real thing is much preferred. As for organ - the real sound comes from the Leslie speaker; but a "Hammond" midi module will give you more flexibility than samples. >Do you still do any stuff on the synclavier? Almost everything, as I use it as both sampler and midi controller. >Would you ever concider playing on the CS80 again? Unlikely. I would be more likely to sample the sounds I needed. >I believe you was about to form a group playing "pop" music in the mid >80's? what happened? Not true. I almost formed 'Zinc' as a real group, but it certainly would not have been regarded as "pop". After Asia's commercial success, however, I was approached several times by people trying to form another 'sing-along with the ex-progsters' type of thing (I declined). >where you ever approached by Terry Bozzio to join "Missing Persons"? No. I would have had to have my plexiglass violin melted down and turned into underwear. >Have you been offered to join any more bands since YES? Thankfully, no. ------- This was posted to the Eddie Jobson mailinglist yesterday, The subscription address is http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/EddieJobson /Lennart ------------------------------ Subject: The Sound of RED Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 07:44:20 -0700 From: Jim Bricker Does anyone else on ET feel that RED is one of the worst sounding studio albums from Crimso? Not in terms of performance, but the quality of the sound. To my ears, it's compressed and muddy and flat. It doesn't sound crisp at all compared to say LTiA from that era. In the 400 odd issues I've been reading ET I can't remember seeing this point raised. So I wonder, what I'm missing? Am I sonically arrogant? Regards - - Jim B ------------------------------ From: NAUDETE dot MANTOVANI at monsanto dot com Subject: Mellotron Date: 23 Jul 1999 14:00:01 -0500 Hi all Recently i have been reading some texts about the use of the mellotron. There was something i did not notice exactly that way. When used in some ways, the mellotron does sound like an orchestra. I went to check out how KC used and compared on how the Moody Blues did back in the late 60's / early 70's. The difference is quite big. While Mike Pinder (Moody Blues keyboardist) used it actually to make sounds with orchestral sumptuosness and much melody, King Crimson (MacDonald, Fripp, Cross...) gave a totally different context to the instrument. It was used to simulate some horror sounds (The Devil's Triangle), other melodic lines, etc..., but never sounded like an orchestra. That proves, if needed, that 70's KC was really a group of contrasts and musical experiments. I did not have too much time to check it out, but would like to know who else made use of the mellotron back in 70's. Does anyone know? Cheers - Ronald Vogel ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 17:11:59 -0400 From: adrienne esztergar Subject: REVIEW: Suzi Katz "Three Day Rain" REVIEW of Suzi Katz "Three Day Rain" 1994, Alice Records (http://www.wnchome.com/suzikatz) Relevance to ET: Marc Anderson plays on it, and Marc played on the Sylvian/Fripp CD "The First Day" Disclaimer: This review reveals more about me than Suzi's record :-) but hopefully has relevant content. My vote: ***-1/2 (out of 5) We can't idolize Robert (at least in his presence, without fear of a fragment of spittle), which is okay, because after all, Steve Tibbetts is God, as I pointed out some time ago in a long-lost ET. (I note that Steve & Marc Anderson are/were/willbe presently (how zen) in Europe touring with Cho Drolma and her Tibetan nun "choir", proof! Only God would be touring with a pack of nuns!). Okay, perhaps I exaggerate. How does that get me to Suzi, singer-songwriter of folksy music? Ah. Well, you see, I lost my copy of Marc Anderson's "TimeFish" (itself an awesome percussive explore), and resorted to a web search for "Marc+Anderson". Seems nobody has the frickin' CD, and the only site I could find that sells it said "I'll have to contact Marc, who is in Europe right now." But I digress. This web search lead me to Suzi Katz's "Steve Tibbetts" web site (www.frammis.com), which besides having details on Steve's/Marc's/Cho's European tour, had a link to Suzi's personal web site, where I noticed, with some drool on my keyboard, that she has a Second Recording. Namely, "Three Day Rain" with Steve Tibbetts on guitar and bazouki, Marc Anderson on percussion, Enrique Toussaint on bass, Ken Holmen on sax tipping in for the last track, and Jan Reimer subtly performing backup vocals here and there. I prepared myself for disappointment, as First Recordings, like Suzi's debut CD from 1991, are usually better than what comes after. I was proven wrong. Suzi has a beautiful voice, and a great talent for writing lovely, simple, folksy acoustic guitar music. That alone would make a good CD. Add Steve Tibbetts, Marc Anderson, and entourage to the equation, and the recording becomes rich in detail, potential for either a disastrous CD, or a mind-blowing CD. And in places, this CD blows ears off one's head. The CD is largely comprised of pleasant music in the style of the likes of Michael Hedges (the singing stuff, not the instrumental stuff). As aural bookmarks to this, the first track "Send out a call" is a simply stunning and dense piece, and the last four tracks are a haunting emotional roller-coaster, and very moving, notably "Only the Light", the instrumental "Maggie Cameron", and "Mode of Travel". Taken as a whole, this CD is rich and tasty--which reminds me, it's time for a Latte. Highly recommended for those who go for this kind of music (or who appreciate challenges and great, great music). If you like the audio samples she's provided at her web site, you have to order directly from Suzi, as her CD is a hard-find (not as hard, it seems, as Marc's "TimeFish" dammit); more info is at her web site. - Brian barnold at media100 dot com ------------------------------ Date: 23 Jul 99 16:20:56 -0700 From: "David Voci" Subject: GREAT DECEPTION Hello Friends, A posting in 601 from Lehman that read: >Does anyone know why there has been a delay in re->releasing >_The Great Deceiver_? I would have thought that all >they >had to do was take the old packaging, the old masters, >and >ship it out. Are extensive changes known to be >planned? This elusive CD re release has been promised for years by DGM upon my calling there to enquire. The latest release date they are quoting is near this year's end. Oh no, not another prophecy related, geeky millenium acknowledging special release please. Again, since I jump around in my listening, it's only recently I've come back to the Crimson Camp. I was lucky to get a used copy of GD for $40USD from a mail order company in Long Island(New Sonic Architecture)...only limitation was I didn't get the Box to hold the CD's and book...great music, jam intensive and very much a pleasure to hear...Epitaph 4CD set is just as great for my tastes...All I can suggest is to have hope, pray alot and keep your ear to the ground vis a vis a forthcoming release. I have been curious about how much this sold for when in print in the US? J & R Music World, a mail order stereo/computer service had it for $54.95 when in print. Ridiculous prices for this on Ebay for used copies(I'll probably never use this service for CD's)but if you're in need and it's oop, then is it really overpriced($55-$80 a set)? I don't think so, if the set is new, especially if you can't get it and it's it's highly desired...there was someone who was lamenting a couple issues back about the Artist Shop 5 copy announcement and it's priceyness to which I semi agree but again, $80.00 is not really that much when all the above apply. If they were used at this price that's another story. Best, dv ------------------------------ From: "chris mcgarel" Subject: VdGG/PH thanks Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 01:34:17 IST In ET#601 I posted a plea for info to remedy my ignorance on Van der Graaf Generator and Peter Hamill. I feel it is only right that I post a big public thanks in ET to all those who responded by private email. Either VdGG/PH fans are a very helpful lot or they are sincere devotees of these artists. I favour both assumptions. Anyways thanks guys. I tried to email you all. If I missed you out please don't take it personally. I would urge those KC fans who are unitiated in VdGG to go out there and get some! It may be a while before we get new KC material and there is no better way IMHO to bridge this temporal gap than with VdGG. I bought First Generation, a compilation of their early work, and it hits all the same spots that KC 69-74 hits for me. Peter Hamill's Fool's Mate also features understated but effective Fripp as does the epic '...Lighthouse Keepers'. I'm just pumped about discovering this music (can you tell?) and I hope I can arouse curiosity in someone else with this post. Once again thanks guys - you know who you are. Further discussion is welcome by private email. Chris McGarel ***Alan, forget fusion, do u wanna put together a VdGG cover band? :-) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 20:55:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Terry Kroetsch Subject: Crimson CDs Abroad If you can help me, please respond with private e-mails only. I really appreciate it. I would like to know where to look (or if I should bother looking) for Crimso and related CDs in these places: Taiwan Airport Narita Airport Singapore Airport Singapore Maldives Kanyakumari, India I leave in two weeks time. Cheers and thanks whoever... ------------------------------ From: "first.exp" Subject: the future of music ? Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 09:16:25 +0200 hello to everyone.... a great number of Eters have talked lately about the KC catalogue remastering project, and it seems they are all disappointed. Does those remarks can help to reconsiderate the case ? Ultimately, i don't care anymore. I feel "blaze"...You know, in ten years of time, i've bought three times all the Genesis collection, so it can't be worse. But let's go a step further - and i would like, if someone knows a little more about that, that you will give us the light we are missing. Here it comes : i've heard that DVD technology will bring to us a new cd format, the DVD audio. Already, this surprises me...It's been said DVD capacity is far more important than CD (about 4 Giga), so what will remain of the space left or will the bands adapt themselves to DVD in creating albums of 4 hours and more as they had to adapt to CD instead of vinyl. Please note that CD perverted in a way the conception of albums, as it was in the 70's. They were approximatevely about 45 minutes, and now, they all seemed obliged to fill a CD entirely, so you get 78 min, and a lot of songs that's annoying. Well, to answer to that question, i've been told that the remaining space on the DVD audio will be filled by a 6 track master, as a mix table, to provide a better sound quality. It seems strange, but, why not ? So, the whole question is this : is it true, and so, will there be another wave, a wave of DVD audio wich will oblige to be up-to-date all consummers already owner of a cd collection to change once again their album format ? The debate will still be open. ------------------------------ From: "Ken Payne" Subject: Let The Power Fall for 45 Cents! Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 03:01:58 -0700 I just noticed that www.800.com has Robert Fripp's Let The Power Fall listed at 45 Cents with free shipping. Ken Payne http://members.tripod.com/~Ken_Payne/home.html np. Steve Hackett - Darktown ------------------------------ From: KingChazs Subject: GIG REVIEW: Adrian Belew, Coach House 7/15 Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 16:04:12 -0400 (EDT) Dear ET'ers: had to add my comments on the Coach House show...(I've already sent part of this to a friend on ET so Russell....you've seen this already). Well, I've thought some about the show last Thursday. It was actually pretty good; I think guitar wankers everywhere would have dug it. Adrian's sound these days is a lot more dark, power-chordish than previously. He has said in inteviews that it had a lot to do with his work with Nine Inch Nails. The latest release, Coming Attractions, has a couple of songs featuring this new sound -- one is called Inner Man, and it's a far cry from Inner Revolution (as you may recall, a nice poppy song about changing oneself). The chorus of Inner Man says "My inner man is an animal..." and I think he meant it in a dark and chaotic way. Ade's finally bringing up the Id in his music rather than the previous Superego focus. At any rate, the show featured quite a bit of new, instrumental music such as a song using something he calls Belewps -- he acts as his own rhythm guitarist. Some of the compositions were unnamed and some were titled -- such as a ripping, Crimsonish tune called Madness. He also did a few of the older songs -- Dinosaur and Fly for example. He played snippets of things called out by the audience and the Beatles' Blackbird. A question and answer session was also part of the evening. He only did one encore -- The Rail Song (one of my favorites so I was pleased). The evening was a good one for us fanboy types but I think the vast majority of the audience wasn't really interested in Adrian's music. There were two opening acts, the first of which was a local band called Whatever. They seemed to be the star attraction for all the Santa Barbies (as my husband dubbed the rich, mindless, young, bimbo females in the audience). I also heard from one of the other "true" fans that he surmised that Adrian wasn't pleased by the addition of Whatever to the bill since it pushed back the start of his part of the show to nearly 11pm. Another thing I noticed about the crowd (which thinned out considerably after Whatever finished) was that some people were actually videotaping Adrian's show...right out in the open for all to see (and this was a small venue -- it may seat 300 or so). I didn't think this was very cool and I'm surprised the management allowed it. Perhaps Adrian wasn't too happy about it....I don't know but I kind of got the feeling that he was feeling low or unhappy since the show was short. Well, that's the way it goes sometimes.... Incidentally, as I told Art by email -- apparently, I was sitting right next to Bobby Sherman and didn't even know it. I kept wondering why he looked familiar and why all these people kept coming up to him to say hello. I thought he was a schoolteacher or something. All I can say is "duh".... === Rochelle _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com End of Elephant-Talk Digest #602 ********************************