Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #601 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 601 Wednesday, 21 July 1999 Today's Topics: Belew Chicago tickets for sale Re: KC re-remasters: should I wait or not? ProjeKct in Nashville & ET Convention INCONSIDERATE PEOPLE USA cassette Re-re-re-masters FFWD; Lizard rehearsal tapes The King and his TOOL Fields' recorded output Re: Age Requirements (Ben Goldwasser) Fractured Question Survey Where to play seperated at birth? TOOL and Crimson / Bass player 3/97 Tool of The Grammar Kid Deja Vroom KC-Lizard,....a request for "Chuckles" Fripp No more whining! Re: Thela Hun Gingeet Tool and KC Van der Graaf Generator Great Deceiver RE: Does the 'King' have a new Tool? CDPoint coupon Re: Age and Religion Age? travelling the side roads Age Requirements re: Age requirements; and album similarities Adrian Returns GIG REVIEW: Adrian at the Coach House in Santa Barbara ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.5b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 17:17:43 EDT From: DDNNPECJAC at aol dot com Subject: Belew Chicago tickets for sale Selling 4 tickets to Belew at Fitzgerald's Sat. July 24 e-mail DDNNPECJAC at aol dot com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 15:15:30 +0100 From: Clive Backham Subject: Re: KC re-remasters: should I wait or not? In ET #600, Miguel Farah F. asks whether he should buy the current "definitive edition" CDs or wait for the next round of Fripp/Singleton remasters. May I make the following points: 1. We really don't have a clue when these new remasters might appear, so you could have a long wait. 2. Fripp has a habit of altering mixes when he remasters (I acknowledge his right to do so). If the current set is deleted when the new editions appear, and you have waited for them, you may find it difficult to hear these albums in their original format. 3. These albums were recorded using equipment far less capable than that used for the 1989 remasters. Unless Fripp has located better source tapes the liklihood of improved sound quality is minimal. Wearing my cynic's hat might I dare to suggest that the only sonic change on the new remasters is likely to be increased compression (that's the fashion these days), which will make them sound louder and more immediately punchy, but ultimately is a retrograde step. Of course Fripp may prove me wrong and magic up the original master tapes of ItCotCK: I promise I will be the first in line to buy a copy in that case. Conclusion: buy them now. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 11:41:57 -0600 From: "Steven Sthole" Subject: ProjeKct in Nashville & ET Convention In the first DGM newsletter, this was written: "ProjeKct, comprising Robert Fripp, Adrian Belew, Trey Gunn and Pat Mastelotto are planning a 1 week concert residency in Nashville in the fall. Exact dates have not yet been confirmed." And in ET#448, the first issue of 1998, Toby Howard wrote: "And you know, we really ought to arrange an International ETers convention one of these days... somewhere sunny would be nice " Hmmm. I don't know how sunny it is in Nashville in the fall, but I can't think of a better opportunity for such a convention to take place. I also can't begin to imagine how difficult setting up a convention could be. My guess is, we could make it as simple or as complex as we want: if anything, have local ET chapters announce who's coming and arrange informal meeting places. Perhaps those ETers who decide to go would want to meet up with other ETers from around the country. Anyway I put the idea out there for us to banter about, with much ballyhoo and broohaha of course. I do know once the dates are announced, I plan on making my travel plans. I always wanted an excuse to travel to Nashville in the fall. Also looking forward to seeing Adrian at the Bluebird theater here in Denver this week (sheeesh, does it get any better than this?) -sws * Steven W. Sthole * COIN Y2K * Colorado Department of Human Services * Steven dot Sthole at state dot co dot us * home : sws at rmi dot net ************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 20:57:35 +0200 From: "accoutumance" Subject: INCONSIDERATE PEOPLE Hello girls (if there is) and guys ! Well, i don't know if it's the right place to do it but i'm gonna do it here and now, and later on the DGM guestbook because it's awful. Yes, awful. Actually, i'm a second hand album seller, i work on a little shop down here in Brussels. Once, a friend of mine talked to me about a band and he told me "if you have it at work, play it and think of me". I had it and so i did put the cd to listen to the album, thinking of my friend. It's not my kind of stuff, post modern electronica, french touch as it's been said, like Daft Punk, Air, etc...but...but... here it is folks : the band is called MELLOW the title of the album : ANOTHER MELLOW WINTER it was released this year, 1999 and, on track 4, titled SHINDA SHIMA, at approximatively 2min35sec you can pricesely hear EPITAPH of KC ! the same guitar line, the same mood. My God ! And no credits ! Usually, i don't do this : report to other what others have done wrong, but it was too much for me. I call for boycott. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 16:52:16 -0400 From: "Snow, Rick" Subject: USA cassette In response to the query regarding whether USA was released on cassette in the USA, the answer is yes--found it in a cutout bin about 5 years back, on EG, don't remember if it was Definitive Edition or not, for about $5. Hmmm, if I only knew some Russian.... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 17:11:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Joe Hartley Subject: Re-re-re-masters miguel at antonia dot webhost dot cl wrote: > then comes > dgm-news #1 tellling us that RF and DS are re-remastering > those albums. . . . > the older editions ("definitive > remasters" by E.G.) are pretty cheap (11.47 bucks at CD > Universe) and are available now - the re-remasters may or > may not be better, and we don't really know *when* they'll > be available (and wether they'll be modified by RF). I'm pretty skeptical when it comes to re-mastering, especially KC remasters. I have heard a number of different editions of ITCOTCK, arguably the best candidate for remastering as it pushed the limits of recording technology in its day. Among the worst was an EG release (definitive edition? master edition? I can't recall) on CD that was worse than the "regular" CD release owned by a friend of mine. Two vinyl copies were ranked in there as well: a standard copy fell between the two CDs, and the best of all, the Holy Grail of sonic beauty for ITCOTCK, was/is my Mobile Fidelity Sound Labs half-speed original master recording. This release doesn't officially exist! The story I heard at the time was that Atlantic improperly let MFSL borrow the master when in fact they had no legal right to do so. Whether Mr. Fripp demanded the return of all extant copies or it was blocked from general release is unknown to me, but it doesn't appear on any of MFSL's release lists, and isn't listed in any of the catalogs record stores use to find records both in and out of print. (For the curious, my copy bears the ID MFSL 1-075). In fact, I had an argument one day with the owner of a store that specialized in used/out-of-print/hard-to-find records over this; he swore I was wrong, that it wasn't a Mobile Fidelity disk until I brought it into him one day. He promptly offered me $50 for it, and this was in '84! I have yet to hear a CD version that even approaches the wonderful sound of this release, which is a pity. In fact, the cassette tape I have which was recorded from this disk on a wonderful stereo (one of the 2 times it's been played) sounds better than the CD versions! My point, which I've strayed from, is that sometimes these remixes can be bad things! The EG release mentioned above continues to be the worst version I've heard. Don't despair that you don't have the latest remix; try to listen before you buy to see which you like better. ====================================================================== Joe Hartley - Computer Consultant - jh at brainiac dot com 12 Emma G Lane, Narragansett, RI 02827 - vox 401.782.9042 Without deviation from the norm, "progress" is not possible. - FZappa ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 14:44:43 -0700 From: "Scott Steele" Subject: FFWD; Lizard rehearsal tapes >I picked up FFWD quite some time ago. It is not unlike the >"ambient" music Brian Eno an RF do on No Pussyfooting. I >have only played it once. In places it is downright scary >and haunting. I have been looking for FFWD on CD for some time. If it is available I would sure be interested in purchasing one. >The "Poseidon" and "Lizard" bands disintegrated before they >had a chance to tour and would not have been ready in time >for the major festivals. But somewhere there must exist >auditions, rehearsals, and alternate versions. These should >be considered for future DGM club releases. If all clearances could be obtained, I would certainly like to hear this stuff too - that would be fascinating! I imagine some of the people involved might not want their rehearsal tapes aired in this way however. - S. scottst at ohsu dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 17:27:21 -0500 From: Fred Newman Subject: The King and his TOOL > My brother is somewhat of a garage band musician. To this > day I have never succeeded to convince him to buy even one > Crimson recording. I have several extra's but if I gave > them to him he would probably shelve them. He is always > bringing me stuff to listen to. One of the most recent was > a band called 'Tool'. I've enjoyed this band or at least > its 'Aenima' recording (I think thats correct). I hear many > sounds seemingly inspired by the 'King', especially track 5. > Is the spirit of the 'King' becoming part of all I enjoy or > can anyone else hear the likeness? > > Wow, yes, I had the same feelings about that one too. It's something about the way the guitar and bass parts at the end keep up their original patterns while Danny does that Bruford-like meter and timing change. Very heavy stuff. TOOL are also known to mess around a bit with their songs live, so seeing them is quite an experience. I happened to catch them last year in Houston, with the Melvins opening. After the Melvins were off and the stage crew was breaking down their gear, the music that was playing over the soundsystem was none other than the last 3 tracks of Robert's Radiophonics soundscapes. It was certainly strange to look out over this sea of hip little kids all being subjected to the works of the Master. I must add that 'Streets' pushed the sound system to its limits. When TOOL were up, they also did about 5 minutes of soundscaping/improv in the middle of the set mostly by messing with their effects units to make some truly magnificent racket before going into 'Sober'. I'm not sure which one(s) of them is the KC/Fripp enthusiast. It might the guitarist (Adam Jones) - he rarely solos, but on the last track of Aenima there's a very Fripp-like feel to the solo in there. The entire band, however, share many of the DGM sensibilities about artistic freedom, including lawsuit and everything with their management, etc. Ta-ta Fred ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 18:50:26 -0400 From: Ted White Subject: Fields' recorded output Michael Tanigawa sez: "The drummer Andy McCullough did an excellent job, especially on the instrumental break of "Cirkus". I have no idea what he is doing today. He did subsequently appear on the four Greenslade albums. I think he also joined Fields and one of Arthur Brown's groups, but I don't know if there was any recorded output." Fields recorded one album, which was released on LP in the UK only on a CBS label (maybe Epic). It was scheduled for a Columbia release in the US, and was promoted here in Columbia's PLAYBACK (a monthly mailing to people who signed up for it, with a 7-inch 33 1/3 record inside a small magazine) -- but never came out. McCullough's King Crimson connection was mentioned in the promotion. It can now be gotten on CD. I'm very fond of the track "Slow Susan" on the album, but it's not typical of the rest of the album. --TW (Dr P) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 00:49:57 +0100 From: "Cameron Devlin" Subject: Re: Age Requirements (Ben Goldwasser) No way, I was born in 1985 and listen to King Crimson/related religiously. The nice thing about KC is that the music can reach to all generations, providing that the young listener can accept that music can be longer that 4 and a half minutes, doesn't have to have words & doesn't have to be famous or popular. Strangely, I was recently told by a friend of mine: "if Fripp is such a great guitarist, why did he marry Toyah Wilcox?". Strange reasoning. Cameron Devlin http://www.devlin-web.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 20:05:25 -0400 From: "Josh Chasin" Subject: Fractured Question Regarding the much-acclaimed 2-cd live compilation, with many "previously unreleased" tracks-- if I buy all currently scheduled future Crimson releases, will I have cornered the market on these unreleased tracks? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 20:04:16 -0400 From: tj Subject: Survey Where hath that survey done gone? Remember questions like: "Question #2. Would you attend a show if they only played brand new material you'd never heard?" A rounded 90% said yes. I like that. Can we do it again? tj dc-et #2 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 20:56:41 -0400 From: tj Subject: Where to play I have an idea. Could ETers have an influence on what venues the future Crim plays in? No, not which continent or city. Where would you most like to be as your remaining ticket stub slides into your back pocket? Don't only think where you've heard them. Think about where they would get the best vibe and the best sound. How about: Paolo Soleri Amphitheater in Santa Fe, NM Warner Theatre in Washington, DC ? tj dc-et #2 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 21:36:07 -0400 From: RS <"rspeak"@erols.com> Subject: seperated at birth? Darth Maul & the Schizoid Man ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 21:01:45 -0500 From: "Patrick" Subject: TOOL and Crimson / Bass player 3/97 In response to the Does the King have a new TOOL post, see Bass Player Magazine page 10, March 1997. ..."Tool began to develop a new,more experimental, epic-sounding style. In order to capture this on tape, the quartet felt they had to find exactly the right producer. Although they could have gone with just about anybody in the industry, they chose King Crimson/Peter Gabriel veteran David Bottrill. TOOL Bass player Justin Chancellor comments: "We met a lot of people who were kind of the hot producers of the moment, and they all seemed to be able to do a good job - but they had a kind of attitude. We wanted someone who could push the sounds a bit, and we all enjoy King Crimson; that's how we came up with the idea of using David. The new material is a bit broader and more sonically challenging, so we didn't want to use someone who would just nail down a heavy rock sound. He was really the right person." So there you have it... and by the way, TOOL rocks, is very interesting music and a lot of angry fun... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 22:20:40 -0400 From: "Matt Talbot" Subject: Tool of The Grammar Kid Hi. Fairly new to ET (a few months), and I haven't posted yet. I felt it was time. Thanks to wviland at thin-film dot com for pointing that out about Tool. As soon as I read his comment, I said,"Track 5. What's that?" The song is called 'Forty-Six and Two,' and, yes, it does have a Crimsonesque feel, with the shifting meters and intense emotional journey it takes the listener on. Elsewhere on the album are ambient sections, similar to some of Fripp's soundscapes. Albeit soundscapes that would depict a nightmare world, they would certainly fall into a similar category. I believe someone had dreamed up a KC lineup with members of Tool, and I could see this working. Which brings me to my next point. Tool is not a "classic" prog rock band. They are relatively new to the business (compared to KC, anyway), and I got into them at their start, about the same time I discovered KC. I got into jazz in a big way about two years ago, and am still looking for new stuff to listen to. The point is, we always need to keep expanding our listening interests, be it from old or new sources. Therefore, Shane Brady, no, there isn't, or at least shouldn't be, a minimum age requirement. Welcome! Finally, the grammar thing. No, a spell-check isn't hard to do, but nobody wants to run to their 10th grade English manual to see if I placed all the commas correctly three sentences ago (and there's a lot). But I must agree that some proofreading is definitely in order. If you don't know, let your little brother proofread it for you. Or ask the dog. moses at access995 dot com P.S. I'm always willing to chat with just about anyone via email, so feel free. But no spam, please! ------------------------------ Date: 19 Jul 1999 14:50:36 -0500 From: NAUDETE dot MANTOVANI at monsanto dot com Subject: Deja Vroom Hi all Having received a DVD player last week i bought right away Deja Vroom. First, i would like to make a brief comment about the songs themselves since Deja Vroom does not present any material which would be new to us. The only new stuff are the innitial "Circular improv" in which every musician play specific roles and "Code: Marine 475" which does not appear on any live official KC CD, but sure does on other boots. What is to follow is a comment over the new technology as well as the features presented in the volume. Before i begin with specific comments i just would like to say that the image is simply fantastic, much ( very much) better than Laser Discs and regular VHS. It took me a while to understand how to manage the player since it is interactive. You can begin by simply placing the disc (exact size and weight of a regular CD) inside the player and let it automatically begins with the songs, or using the menu features, navigate through its menu options for each side. Side 1 has 9 songs, PJ Crook paintings, Vector Patrol, Press reviews, TV appearences over the world and Fripp's own comments over KC history. The booklet says side on has 10 songs, ending with "3 of a Perfect Pair". In fact this is the first error since the song is the innitial one of the side 2. It also says that PJ Crook paintings would be accompanied by song extracts, which is also not true. Paintings were there but without any sound. Press reviews, Fripp's reviews and TV appearances are in form of text and we can scroll pages up and down just like a ordinary PC text software. Most of the KC history texts, if not all, were taken from previous booklets such as GD, Epitaph and Night Watch. Vector Patrol (also in side 2) let the user choose from one of the multiple camera angles (available in few songs) set it as random or main angle. Best choice is using random angles and change angles when feature is available. bad thing is that whenever we change camera angles in the middle of the song the sound just stops until the angle is changed. Other feature is when DTS is available, is to select whuch musicinan would be in the middle speaker and so on. Since i do only have a regular stereo i could not use it. The player itself provides us with a VIrtual Surround Sound (VSS) that allows the user to select from 3 different sound types: regular stereo, surround with sound in the front and surround with sound in the back. The use of the feature enhances the sound in a very clear way. Very useful and amazing thing. Side 2 has other 10 songs (19 in total), Vector Patrol, Tony Levin's road diary extracts and 21St Century band. Levin's diary is just fun for it shows musicians in a way we see them in photographs. Wish it would be longer. There are various takes than can also be selected via menu. 21St centry Schizoid band was the feature that i wanted to play in the first time. It allows the uset o select between 4 rythm sections (69, 71, 74 and 96) as well as the singer (Lake, Boz, Wetton and Belew) and Soloist (MacDonald, Collins, Cross and Belew). Well, it simply did not work. I selected in the beginning at least 3 diffrent formations but the DVD insist on playing Lake vocals. When it finally changed to Belew's vocals i could not changed it back to any other one. I gave it up after 15 minutes of Schizoid and will try again another day. Maybe it was simply my own mistakes that did not make it work. If someone has gone through it please tell me. Overall conclusion is that DVD is fantastic and Deja Vroom is something we should all have,despite of the few mistakes. We have to take in consideration that the technology is very new and people are still learning how to deal with it. Cheers Ronald Vogel ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 01:19:40 -0500 From: Craig Shropshire Subject: KC-Lizard,....a request for "Chuckles" Fripp Re: Michael Tanigawa`s post to ET........ >The "Poseidon" and "Lizard" bands disintegrated before they >had a chance to tour and would not have been ready in time >for the major festivals. But somewhere there must exist >auditions, rehearsals, and alternate versions. These should >be considered for future DGM club releases. YES! &....AMEN!!!!!!!!! Lizard is simply a masterpiece & not only my favorite KC LP, but easily in my top 25 of all time! I never tire of it (been listening to it for nearly 30 years, now!!!!) Please, King Fripp,....do so............... We`re waiting w/ infinite patience..........SO HURRY THE F*CK UP!!! Thank you, kind sir. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 23:52:45 PDT From: "Bill Colrus" Subject: No more whining! Hello all! I am writing with a somewhat tongue-in-cheek request that we stop whining about such things as "how many times do we have to hear 'heartbeat?'" If any of you have simlar problems with issues like this, i suggest listening to something else or maybe nothing at all. It's just music. No matter how much we 'crimheads' love our 'crim,' it's still just music. It's supposed to be enjoyable. When it begins to be a drag, you can then move on to something else. Like feeling your significant other's "hands through your hair." Also, briefly, I wish to post my condolences concerning to passing of Morphine lead singer Mark Sandman. For those unitiated, I recommend picking up a copy of their Cure For Pain album. Morphine, like Crimson, has consistently produced some of the most unique music to come around the pike, and Mark's two-string slide bass and earnest baritone voice will be sorely missed. P.s.-has anyone else fallen in love with the new Flaming Lips album? Don't shoot me, but I have...Equal parts Neil Young, Radiohead, and XTC, this album should most assuredly appeal to all Crimson fans. Trust me.... Sincerely, Bill Colrus ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 09:59:19 +0200 From: "Andang Kustamsi" Subject: Re: Thela Hun Gingeet Scott McMahan wrote > b) What is the first line in the chorus, that sounds like > "watery main"? I've never been able to figure it out, or to > find lyrics with the chorus. I think the words are Japanese, "kuateri mei". <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Andang Kustamsi andang at nmt dot edu Art washes away from the soul the dust of everyday life. -Pablo Picasso <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 10:38:49 IST From: "chris mcgarel" Subject: Tool and KC >My brother is somewhat of a garage band musician. There is a similarity between Tool and KC which I have enjoyed since the former's Opiate EP way back when (1992 I think). This is an excellent assault on the ears as are their 2 full-length albums - Undertow and Aenima. This is very angry music, 'very metal' as Viv from The Young Ones might say but the guys have such integrity and drive in their music, lyrics and delivery that they never venture into the dreaded cliches of hard rock music. Their lyrical themes of isolation, disgust at organised religion, mental, physical and emotional abuse and hatred of conformity are standard rock fare but handled in an intelligent and non-cliched manner. The lyrics are often shocking but necessarily so to get across the dark emotions in the music. Curiously I find their lyrics very refreshing and life-affirming. Just watch any TV station for half an hour then listen to Tool rip apart the conventions that we are forced to endure in the mainstream media every second of the day. I read an interview a few years back (Kerrang! I believe) in which they cited Joni Mitchell and KC as influences. Fans of KC will revel in the time changes, the superb drumming, the heavier than heavy guitars - Adam Jones is not a technical guitarist by any means but his polymetric riffs against the shifting time sigs and use of effects and feedback are very individualistic and I believe he is a great talent. He also produces the band's later clay animation videos. A little anecdote: I saw the band support Rage Against the Machine a few years back and they put on a great show. Particularly memorable was the singer's (Maynard James Keenan) audience participation slot where he had the audience bleating like sheep - the irony was lost on the RATM fans (sad middle class students to a man/woman). By contrast RATM came on and at one stage had the crowd put their fists in the air and chant 'I am not a number' without a shred of irony! Reminded me of Monty Python's Life of Brian when Brian tells the mob 'You are all different' and they reply in unison 'Yes we are all different'. Aenima is a fine album from a fine band. It was produced by one David Bottrill (Sylvian/Fripp, Thrak, VROOOM, Peter Gabriel) who did a magnificent job (as did Sylvia Massey on Undertow). Tool's experiments with sound help to lift them out of the swamp of metal. The KC overtones in the music are not overdone but I can definitely hear an influence - not sure about the Joni Mitchell influence though! Maybe someone can illuminate us on this. I would suggest that Red might be the album to play to your brother. The opening bars of 'One More Red Nightmare' and Bill's storming percussion might just be enough to convert him. 'Lament', 'LTIA2' and 'VROOOM' might have a similar effect. Recommended listening: Hush, Cold and Ugly (from Opiate) 4 Degrees, Undertow, Flood (from Undertow) Eulogy, Hooker with a Penis, Jimmy, Aenima (from Aenima) Chris McGarel ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 12:14:15 IST From: "chris mcgarel" Subject: Van der Graaf Generator I bought 'Vital - Van der Graaf Live' the other day cos it was cheap and am hooked. Very KC in places particularly the more drawn out instrumental passages. To what extent did they improvise these? Can any VDGG fans out there recommend a suitable second purchase for a long-term KC fanatic? I would also appreciate a synopsis of PH's solo stuff - I would hate to buy the wrong title and get a bad impression of his work. Maybe a 'Top 3' and 'Worst 3' from an ET'er in the know would help me formulate a more educated overview of the vast output of VDGG and PH. [ Replies by private email to the poster, please, not to ET. Thanks -- Toby ] Some questions: I stand in the 'Fracture-is-good' camp. I also stand in the 'Heartbeat-is-good' camp. Does this make me a menace to society? Will my children be stigmatised? Thanks in advance Chris McGarel ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 11:03:49 -0400 From: Lehmann Lab Subject: Great Deceiver Does anyone know why there has been a delay in re-releasing _The Great Deceiver_? I would have thought that all they had to do was take the old packaging, the old masters, and ship it out. Are extensive changes known to be planned? Does anyone have any information on the USAII/Asbury Park double CD release described in the releases page? Thanks. --Jason ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 10:20:51 -0600 From: "Guido N. Vacano, Ph.D." Subject: RE: Does the 'King' have a new Tool? wviland at thin-film dot com says-- > My brother is somewhat of a garage band musician. I can certainly hear a KC influence in Tool's work, but it's not all that surprising. See them live -- they play Fripp's Soundscapes before the show, which strongly implies that they are fans of both Fripp and King Crimson (the latter was confirmed in an interview of the band which I found on the Music Boulevard site). I saw them at Red Rocks in Morrison, CO last year. It was one of the best shows I've seen. Guido Vacano ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 12:25:20 PDT From: "Nomad Stem" Subject: CDPoint coupon Hello Proggies, Just a tidbit for anyone interesting in saving a couple of bucks on their next CD purchase. CDPoint.com has a Real Audio feature called NetRadio that under the Vintage Rock section has a Progressive Rock channel, and although the playlist does repeat, plays with minimal interruptions, and plays a number of King Crimson tracks. Anyway, you can use the following coupon "Netradio7" on any purchase at cdpoint.com for $2 off a purchase (enter it below your shipping info). That almost eliminates the shipping cost on single item purchases. It is good until July 31st, so hopefully this reaches you before then. Nomad ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 20:34:48 +0100 From: John Peacock Subject: Re: Age and Religion > Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 17:22:18 -0700 (PDT) > From: Ben Goldwasser > Subject: Age requirements > > Hi, I was born in 1982 and I listen to King Crimson relgiously. Am I too young? Depends on the religion. At seventeen, you should be going through the Inquisition-era Catholic Church period. If you are listening Buddhistically, there is probably a problem. Hindu is OK (elephant-headed god seems oddly appropriate), but Scientology is right out. I can recommend listening in the fashion of a South-Sea Island Cargo cult, however. Perhaps someone could translate Sinfield's lyrics into Pidgin. They might make sense that way. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 14:46:36 PDT From: "oscar olsson" Subject: Age? In the latest Elephant Talk I read this: "Hi, I was born in 1982 and I listen to King Crimson relgiously. Am I too young?" I'm born in 1981 and I've been listening to Crimson since I was fourteen. I also listen to the records like someone listens to a preacher. I've got a bunch of friends that also listen to Crimson. I don't think that music has got anything to with age. If the music is good, (I mean good!!!), then no one will miss it. I'm sure that there has to be several other teenagers out "there" who like Crimson. Or..? Oscar Sweden ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 00:59:04 +0200 From: robert turner Subject: travelling the side roads david way wrote: "Bach [has] written pieces which aren't as technically proficient..." my comment doesn't address the issue of the original posting. the debate about technical proficiency vs. emotional effectiveness has been interestingly argued -- as has the issue of the (lack of) merits of _fracture_ -- to the degree that i don't feel a need to contribute. i hope to gently call the attention of david way to my following example, which i feel is suitably analagous to the excerpt above, to see if he gets a similar reaction: "Shakespeare has written works which aren't as poetically adept..." again, david, i'm just sharing a personal observation, with no intention to troll or bait you. something about the words "bach" and "not technically proficient" being syntactically linked really throws me. it's not unlike the (pleasant) startling disruption that can happen when reading a choice haiku or zen koan. thanks for waking me up! peace and respect, robert If the world has limits, how can there be another world? If the world has no limits, how can there be another world? -Nagarjuna ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 20:29:32 -0400 From: Dan J Cwirka Subject: Age Requirements I was born in 1981, and, I fear, am the biggest King Crimson fan in Connecticut. This, of course is only an assumption, due to the fact that I just haven't found really anyone else who even knows who they are. In that respect, it's somewhat like being in an elite club, and the music is the reward. The only reason their might be an "age requirement" is if your under twenty and hope to make friends with other Crim lovers close to your age. We're the minority, but we are out there! -Dan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 21:39:58 -0500 From: Sean Redefer Subject: re: Age requirements; and album similarities Dear Ben, I, too, was born in 1982 and like you, listen to KC religiously. In the past few years, I have grown to despise new music. (with the exception of Radiohead) I now solely listen to music from the 70's (almost exclusively prog-rock. ex. Yes, ELP, Pink FLoyd) My friend is 17 and he also listens to KC. Along with replying to Ben's post I'm going to post something myself: a question. Does anyone agree with me that In The Court... and In the Wake of Poseidon sound very similar? With the exception of the Peace... tracks. Similarities are as follows: Pictures of a City / Schizoid Man Cadence and Cascade / I talk to the Wind In the Wake of Poseidon / Epitaph Cat Food / Court of the Crimson King? Devil's Triangle / Moonchild Please reply w/ opinions Thanks, Sean Redefer P.S. Hi Jim ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 23:17:30 PDT From: "Michael Irish" Subject: Adrian Returns From the concert listing posted on ET I've found that Adrian Belew is returning here for a second concert, this time in Ann Arbor. I saw Adrian here at the 7th House, Pontiac, on June 21st, in what was one of the funnest concerts I've attended in a few years. There is not that wall between Adrian and the audience that I notice with some other musicians. Before the concert I bought Coming Attractions; afterwards Adrian signed the covers for Young Lions and Three of a Perfect Pair and I talked to him about how his music has affected me. Its great that he's coming back again. Adrian said, on his page, that his favorite guitarists are Robert Fripp, Jimi Hendrix, and Jeff Beck. My favorite guitarists are Robert Fripp, David Gilmour, and Richard Thompson. A fine if steamy concert by Ozric Tentacles last week in Detroit. This time last year Projekct Two played in the same battered hall. Great not talked about prog-rock album: Julie Driscoll's "1969". Are people buying DGM releases primarily from their website? Michael ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 12:58:36 -0700 From: "Padilla, Art" Subject: GIG REVIEW: Adrian at the Coach House in Santa Barbara Hello ET People! Well, I know it's a little late, but I thought I'd go ahead and post a short gig review for Adrian (the show was actually last Thursday, July 15). I was actually quite surprised and elated that one of the greatest guitarist in the world is coming to our small town. I was thankful that I arrived early to get a good seat. On a side note, 70's Teen Idol Bobby Sherman was behind me in line! Seems his two sons were in the first opening act, 'Whatever', of which I paid no attention. After that, 'The Irresposibles'...Of which I liked very much. And then Adrian. I was a little upset that he was going to have to cut his set so damn short. All in all, was a great show! Don't miss it! -Art Padilla Santa Barbara P.S. Remember to bring a Sharp Marker to the show for autographs. Adrian says his pens always disappear! ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #601 ********************************