Reply-To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Discipline #60 Discipline, Number 60 Sunday, 11 October 1992 Today's Topics: Fripp raids the vaults again Fripp philosophical point _Musician_, August 1984 interview with Crimson: Bruford Levin/Uncle Funk _Musician_,August 1984 interview with Crimson: Belew Singing the Belews _Musician_,August 1984 feature on Crimson: Fripp Players wanted [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: wcsanil at ccs dot carleton dot ca (Anil Prasad) Subject: Fripp raids the vaults again Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 11:37:47 EDT Egad! My wallet's begun to ache already! When does this stupid live box come out in the USA? I assume Caroline is releasing it? Is there going to be a mini-CD to accompany it's release? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Anil Prasad | "No matter how rough the road may be, ---------------------------| we can never, never surrender to what wcsanil at ccs dot carleton dot ca | is right." wcsanil at alfred dot carleton dot ca | -- J. Danforth Quayle, 11/15/91 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: MICHAEL dot LEE at mail dot admin dot wisc dot edu Subject: Fripp philosophical point Date: Mon, 05 Oct 92 13:38 CDT A general discussion question, that may also reveal where RF may be headed with a new Crimson. RF said something about an "obvious" new music revolution that would occur in 1991. Well, it's at the tail end of 1992, and while something (and this does include music, I think) HAS changed so far this decade -- it's scope and nature isn't clear, and probably won't be until some more political elements (the 92 US pres elections and the EC difficulties, particularly) are more settled. As I think this both reveals some factor of Fripp's philosophy AND where a new Crimson would be headed, what do you think it could be? Michael Lee michael dot lee at mail dot admin dot wisc dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 18:39:19 PDT From: ee152fcy at sdcc15 dot UCSD dot EDU (Paolo Valladolid) Subject: _Musician_, August 1984 interview with Crimson: Bruford "Its easier to be in Crimson now than it ever was...Robert and I are both a lot calmer, in my opinion." "I'm a classic Englishman. I sort of garden like crazy. Physical labor balances musical activity beautifully." "I love jazz, what can I say? I still listen to _A Love Supreme_ all the time. In that record I find just about everything I respect in music." "Creating Crimson's music," he (Bruford) explains, " is just about everything that the general public thinks it isn't...they have this idea that Robert comes in with this huge stack of manuscript...but its not like that at all...the music's hardly composed, anyway. 'Composition' is a nice, flattering term... we'd all like to think that our better rock groups *compose*...but Crimson sort of *scuffles* for its music...I'm quite an irritant at rehearsals because I don't settle. What used to be that deal was that the drummer would get his part immediately so that the rest of the group could go on changing theirs. And a drummer was also what everybody else...overdubbed on...which is a bit like being shat on. I've come to resent this idea that the drummer has to be a carpet...So I've been retaliating by deliberately changing my part...which really gets them going...no, that's an exaggeration. It keeps them on their wits, though." " ...Take "Sleepless", for example. Does what happened to his original drum track faze him? "I mostly played the tune the way I thought it should be played, leaving out great sections of drumming. Which were then put back in...I'm quite happy to sort of provide some drumming and then let other people rearrange them as they see fit...I quite like that. There used to be an...insufferable preciousness with music, where the *note* was the precious item." ..."Drumming, for me, doesn't really occur with a machine...It can take away s some of the chore of keeping time...it was held that the other musicians *couldn't* keep time, so they employed this guy called a drummer to do it for them...we have to assume that by now that Robert Fripp can keep time. And if he can't, well, that's tough. But timekeeping is also something that we need for the audience. The machine can handle it, leaving me free to stand and play a vertical rack setup...embroidering on the top." ..."in the West, we spend thousands of dollars getting rid of every...harmonic distortion, and then of course spend thousands of dollars putting it all back in again...In this oscilloscope mentality, music is supposed to abide by some mechanized rythmic formula...Rhymthm, to me, is about Tony Williams coming and going like the breeze, like a storm, rather than the thing that military bands went to war with. Which is called beat. Rhythm is pulse, as supposed to beat." ...There is another drummer in King Crimson, after all: Adrian Belew. Bill feels it is important for the band to exploit that. "God - Adrian, what can I say about Adrian...I think what Adrian has realized is that he doesn't have to please anybody else. And the most pleasing he will be to me is when *he's* most pleased... "I think a lot of his life he's had the traditional entertainer's idea that ...you must supply what the customer wants. Jon Anderson and I always had arguments about that when I was in Yes. I used to say 'Good God, man, Charlie Parker never worried about what the audience thought!'. And he'd say 'Who's Charlie Parker?'" [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: 05 Oct 92 15:28:17 EDT From: Michael Sheehan <70373 dot 3423 at CompuServe dot COM> Subject: Levin/Uncle Funk Hello all. Since there's been all this talk about Tony Levin, I thought I'd chime in with a personal reminiscence or two. One is, Uncle Funk is an assortment of fellas who live in and about Woodstock, New York, which is where Levin makes his home. They played up here in Albany, New York about a year and a half ago in a small bar, at which time Jerry Marotta was playing drums! There wasn't even a very big crowd, so after the show I just walked right up to the stage and chatted for a while with Tony, and bought Jerry Marotta a beer (!). Needless to say, as a rabid Crimson and Peter Gabriel fan, I was hard put to contain myself. Sad to say, Uncle Funk is a not-particularly-noteworthy band, despite its famous members. Pretty much an area bar band, and Tony (and presumably, Jerry) plays with them when he's got the time. Another aside... a woman of my acquaintance dated Tony for a year or so, and a friend of mine has his bass from the ToaPP tour (the yellow one withe the logo). His dad knows Tony and Tony gave it and a small amp to the guy for his birthday one year. You should see it... under the E string the wood is worn away a good 1/8-1/4 inch, under the other strings also, but not so deep... must be from all those "Sleepless" nights! Well, enough about me. Jeez, you'd think with all these odd, random connections, I'd at least have been able to score backstage passes by now-- I'll never forgive my friend for breaking up with Levin! :) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 07:56:22 PDT From: ee152fcy at sdcc15 dot UCSD dot EDU (Paolo Valladolid) Subject: _Musician_,August 1984 interview with Crimson: Belew "I feel, personally, that I'm getting further and further from wanting to do the normal pop song, the kind of thing I think I was brought into the band to do." [ me: Wasn't 1984 about the time Belew worked on _Desire Caught By the Tail_? The liner notes in _Desire of the Rhino King_ said that Belew at that time was tired of pop and caught up in the romance of art...] "I think about the future of the band all the time." "I think of myself as not a very articulate person. But I do study the dictionary a lot and read lots of words, because I think it's part of being a lyricist to understand words. "My two favorite drummers of all time were Ringo Starr and Bill Bruford." ...Earlier he was leaning with Fripp, trying to get Bill to simplify. But that, he feels, was in a period when the songs were also leaning in that direction... He's less inclined (now) to stomp on someone else's inner path when he's just beginning to dust off his own. Like the lyric says - "dig me...but don't.. bury me." "...I feel that Bill should be playing as Bill plays. Because I love it...and there are plenty of drum machines that can play a straightforward pulse if that's what you like...I prefer Bill being Bill, which implies inventiveness and pretty much placing the beat all over the place." Of course if Bill plays that way it's guaranteed to irk Fripp... "I haven't found the solution to this basic dilemma yet. Right now we're starting to arrive at a style where Bill and I play together with me functioning as the beat drummer, which I'm pretty good at, and Bill functioning as the random schizophrenic drummer...I think that should be the answer...I know this problem really bothers Robert. And I don't really know what to say about that, because it doesn't bother me anymore." "I'll tell you one difference I think we've successfully managed. For a long time the band had talked about playing more freeform style, actually *not* playing together. It was suggested that we go into the studio and really not pay attention to each other, but still try and go in the same direction...That's how a lot of the industrial sounding stuff came about, by just going in there and trying to make an 'almighty noise', as Robert calls it. Where it really works for me is the thing I'm happiest about on the whole record, 'Dig Me', where I told the guys I wanted to lay down this very awkward guitar part and then have them play to it, but in a way that would sound like we're really not playing together...The song sounds like it's falling apart." "...We got all this stuff (new gear piled around the rehearsal room) set up and we were looking at it and saying 'Gee whiz, look at all this,' and I said 'Y'know, boys, we should just go back to Strats and Super Reverbs.' And Tony and Bill and I were laughing about that and we just shook our heads and said 'Yeah, man, we'll just have a garage sale.'" [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: wcsanil at ccs dot carleton dot ca (Anil Prasad) Subject: Singing the Belews Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 14:31:21 EDT There's an interview with Adrian Belew in the new issue (nob. 92) of MODERN DRUMMER. Yup, that's right, modern drummer! It's very interesting actually, Belew discusses his drumming experiences (both as a drummer and with various players including a very large and very informative chunk on Bruford). On the cover is Trilok Gurtu, who's a *phenomenal* and highly underrated percussion talent. If you pick up the mag, make sure you read the Gurtu article! Better yet, pick up one of his two solo albums, Usfret or Living Magic. If you're unsure about these, start with one of the last two John McLaughlin releases "Live at the royal festival hall" or "Que Allegria". The latter is especially recommended. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Anil Prasad | "No matter how rough the road may be, ---------------------------| we can never, never surrender to what wcsanil at ccs dot carleton dot ca | is right." wcsanil at alfred dot carleton dot ca | -- J. Danforth Quayle, 11/15/91 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 7 Oct 92 07:53:42 PDT From: ee152fcy at sdcc15 dot UCSD dot EDU (Paolo Valladolid) Subject: _Musician_,August 1984 feature on Crimson: Fripp "Music is the cup that holds the wine of silence. Sound is that cup, but empty. Noise is that cup, broken." "I feel limited by recording. Not always...if its 'my record', I feel limited, I feel a responsibility. But if its someone else's record I don't worry, because *they're* picking up the pieces." "The Giles Brothers were looking for a singing organist. I was a nonsinging guitar player. After thirty days of recording and playing with them I asked if I got the job or not - joking like, you know? And Michael Giles rolled a cigarette and said, very slowly,'Well, let's not be in too much of a hurry to commit ourselves, shall we?' I still don't know if I ever got the job." "I never thought Crimson would happen again...speaking strictly as a human being, I'm sorry it did. Because it is excruciatingly painful." The other band members take the space easily, without thinking. But Fripp's sense of responsibility holds him captive to the vision. He *knows* what Crimson needs, and if they won't provide it, he'll subvert or betray his own playing style to try and fill the gap. He lays himself out, nerves bare and screaming, and lets them get away with it. Bill talked about the drummer having to go and be the carpet; but Fripp, int his point of view, is forced...to be the floor beneath the rug. "...I construct a field on which other people can find themselves. But in finding themselves, it doesn't occur to them to extend the courtesy to me. And *that* you can print...hopefully they will read it and the penny will drop. Dear guys, if you're reading this: your guitarist is frustrated!" "Why, then, do I continue to do it? Because, obviously, there is something there worthwhile. No other band is doing what King Crimson is doing." But at what cost? In all the rattle and bang of the Crimson creative process, some vital element is being constantly misplaced, and I think it's Robert Fripp's instincts. The hotline to the Court, if you will. Fripp doesn't really *play* on Crimson albums anymore, not really *play*, the way he has on Bowie's albums, or on the Roches' "Hammond Song", when a more playful and adventurous Fripp could come out behind his fastidious facade. On a Crimson album today he plays a lot like he talks, which, in turn has a lot in common with the the way Bill drums - in that it is overly intellectualized...small wonder there's a Time conflict between them. And small wonder that there's a Space conflict between Fripp and Adrian, what with Fripp locking himself into a self-imposed Iron Mary of arpeggiated cross-rhythms just so that Adrian can have room to soar. (Adrian, by the way, doesn't think it's that way. "I see Robert wailing a lot," he says.) "I can understand Bill not wanting to be the timekeeper of the band, because I'm not interested in being a rhythm player...which is an entirely honest, worthwhile, interesting role. But it's not one I go for. Now, my response to Bill's not wanting to keep time is that I don't mind him not keeping time for me, because I can keep my own. What I object to is his *disturbing* my time. It's Tony Levin who is buying a drum machine...because Tony realizes that to me, time is now a vital issue. My personal pulse is being disturbed so oftenm and so frequently...that I'm not going to handle it anymore." Its sad...there can be no solution to the problem. As his friends well know, he is simply too much the gentleman. Another guitarist would reach out and fight for some space...but Fripp is...incapable of resolving the difficulties. Not without cranking the pressure to the certifiable danger point, and he is unlikely to do that. It is easier to withdraw. "...Well, if you put it another way, if you ask me whether I could envisage a future in which all I did was stay at home in the village where my family go back for 300 years, with my friends and family around me, and I didn't tour endlessly with musicians that irritated me, I didn't have to deal with pressure that people normally never have to deal with...I didn't have to do interview, be hit on everywhere I go...could I handle that as a future? The quick answer would be yes. Could I handle it well? The answer is, phenominally well. Me and a book is a party. Me and a cup of coffee is an orgy." Until the next time Crimson calls at least. *************************************************************************** End of the Crimson feature Interviews/features on the band and members were done by Freff, a mysterious former _Keyboard_ columnist and philosopher. Extraneous philosophizing edited out by me, Paolo Cheers, Paolo [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 14:34:30 -0500 From: "Kerim C. Fidel" Subject: Players wanted Any and all capable players at UIUC interested in Crimson and related music are cordially invited to correspond with me (Kerim Fidel) at: kcfg9904 at cs dot uxa dot uiuc dot edu Thanks very much. Kerim Fidel [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] To join this mailing list or have your thoughts in the next issue, please send electronic mail to Toby Howard at the following address: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk The Discipline archives are available on "ftp.uwp.edu". The views expressed in discipline are those of the individual authors only.