Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #599 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 599 Tuesday, 13 July 1999 Today's Topics: NEWS: DGM newsletter Heart vs Mind Adrian Belew Returns to Chicago! Durngons and Draigooons Fracture furor Technique vs. Inspiration... Any Crimfans in H-Town? Michael Giles in action again? FOREIGNER Re: Technique vs. Inspiration... Ozric Tentacles @ Wetlands...Many Crimso fans in attendance! Motley Crue plagiarize the great deciever song? Re: Classical Composer Influencing Fripp Fripp`s playing. who is Gordon Haskell? RE: Fracture Who was the best opening band for KC? Collector's Club: help with info please Remastering KC/ Projeckt Box FFWD disc T. Lev More "Fracture" noise ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.5b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Tues, 13 Jul 1999 12:21:39 -0400 From: Toby Howard Subject: NEWS: DGM newsletter Hi everyone, just a note to point you to the new DGM email newsletter, issue #1 of which came out yesterday. I'm not going to repeat its contents here in ET. If you'd like to subscribe to the DGM newsletter, sign up via the DGM Web pages, at http://www.disciplineglobalmobile.com. Cheers Toby ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 12:21:39 -0400 From: Jean-Sebastien_Rostan Subject: Heart vs Mind Hi There! I see there are many categories of Crimson or any prog listeners around... Some of them are listener, other are player (ex: guitar player) some of them are more focussed, other less narrow minded!! Tastes are personnal and should not be discussed! A musician will hear a song very differently than a non-musician. He will hear and interpret things that will be left hidden to the non-musician! But a non-musician will also have a great advantage over the musician: he will hear the song in its truest and purest way...heart vs mind conflict!! Last Sunday July 4th, I saw the REMEMBER SHAKTI with John McLaughlin band! It was a great example of a great melting between Virtuosity and spiritual/emotion. McLaughlin was able to be as fast as light but at the same time very celestial and melodic. Balance is the key here...if you are sincere and play with heart, even the choppiest cerebral licks will be heard as beautyful wind to your ears. Music is more than notes or harmonic structures. It is the voice of God (a personnal opinion here) As a guitar player I am inspired by Both Robert Fripp and John McLaughlin. Both of them are true artist that play with technique, emotion, mind and HEART! Earing with the heart is tough when mind overshadow it! best regards J.S. Rostan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 12:37:38 EDT From: Bashatee at aol dot com Subject: Adrian Belew Returns to Chicago! Hi... Just read that Adrian Belew & the Irresponsibles will be performing at Fitzgerald's July 24. Opening act at 9pm is Satya Graha. This venue is located at 6615 Roosevelt Rd, Berwyn, IL., a close-to-Chicago western suburb. I enjoyed his recent sold-out show at the Double Door which was eloquently reviewed by several others on this site. My only addition is that Adrian requested no smoking during his performance; something one doesn't encounter too often on the smokey bar concert circuit. I don't know ticket prices, but the Double Door ran about $17.50 for a show worth double that amount. More info available @ 708-788-2118 or www.fitzgeraldsnightclub.com Take care... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 12:39:14 EDT From: Goodcraker at aol dot com Subject: Durngons and Draigooons Wow. Dungeons and Dragons eh? This isn't meant as a mean spirited post, but an actual question. How old are you Doug Nowicki??? I would love to get the youngest to the oldest posters, and I have a funny feeling Mr Nowicki is young. DAMN YOUNG. [ Whoa. I only just let this post through. What, pray tell, is intrinsically wrong with being "young"? Or any age, for that matter? Life is life. Growing old does not necessarily imply the acquisition of wisdom or good taste, or anything. Dumbness, especially DAMN DUMBNESS, is surely universal. Mr, or Ms, Goodcraker, please take your "funny feelings" on this topic elsewhere in future. -- Toby ] But anyway.....I have another question. I was discussing my collection of CDs with several people the other night, and mainly hearing them complain that I had nothing to play for "the general public" to enjoy. (people in the yard having a BBQ). As I went into my 15 minute dissertation on what it was like to enjoy music that few people like and how lonely that liking can be...one of my guests pissed on my parade by saying..."Ya know what? You KC fans are a little too much like Star Trek fans. Think about it." Yikes. I did. ......still thinking about it. I tried a snappy comeback, but I couldn't do it. The person who made the remark was someone I had taken to a June 95 show in Chi-Town, and we had a strange (and for me embarrasing) moment exiting the show. While we were walking to the parking garage afterwards, we had 5 or 6 fans behind us, all talking about the pros and cons of Belew, Wetton etc etc. in a most serious overtone. My partner quickly compared them to Star Trek geeks arguing over Picard and Kirk. ...God..I had forgotten about that moment until it was brought up almost 4 years later. Sooo I ask, without trying to anger up anyone's blood.....is this format turning into a parody of ourselves without us even knowing it? And does that question make sense? And are we all a little toooo serious in our attempts to impress each other and /or Fripp? SIgning off or now...... T Murphy/Chicago "It tastes like...BURNING!"---Ralph Wiggum ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 12:52:19 EDT From: CURUGROTH at aol dot com Subject: Fracture furor Concerning David Hudson's critique of "Fracture" in issue #597, which was greeted with such hostility in #598: It is interesting that not one of his respondents acknowledged that there may be some truth in what he wrote. Instead he was accused of over-intellectualizing (David Todd, David Lumenta), presumably because some feel threatened by his ability to discuss specific musical features (whole-tone riffs, their sequential repetition at different pitch levels, etc.) using technical vocabulary, and because they feel inadequate to defend their high opinion of Fracture in the same terms. Lumenta, for example, wrote of "overrational discussions enjoyed by snob high-culturalist music critics, narrow-minded prog rock fans or green-faced music students," clearly wishing to tar Hudson with this brush. Criticism like Hudson's should not be seen as a threat, but as a challenge that can heighten appreciation of a work's qualities, both good and bad. Isn't that one of the things this forum is supposed to be about? This being said, I think that Hudson did overlook Fracture's good qualities. First, the overall structure is tight and quite effective. Like LTinA Pt. 1 (starting at 2:53 after Muir's intro), Fracture opens with two contrasting themes. The first creates a tense and expectant atmosphere; the second, (as in LTinA) using distorted bass, unleashes a dark and dangerous force (Fracture, 1:12 and 2:19). The fast section beginning at 2:49 (Like its counterpart in LTinA at 4:53) attempts to counteract this dark impression. In Fracture it succeeds temporarily: it leads to two new themes (3:22 and 4:38 respectively) which suggest a tone of quiet wonder or mystery. Eventually, however, tension builds and the fast theme comes under increasing pressure until the catastrophic return at 6:04 of the "B" theme (distorted wah bass). This devastating setback parallels the catastrophe at the end of LTinA, Pt. 1. After an eerie, depressed transition (6:36), Fracture Pt. 2 (7:14ff.) does exactly what LTinA Pt. 2 did: It takes themes from Part 1 (the quiet, mysterious ones at 3:22 and 4:38) and makes them more aggressive and self-confident, driving them on to a victorious conclusion. It is a violent rejection of the obstacles in the first part; a triumph over the dark force of the B theme and whatever (if anything) it represents. Part of the reason Fracture is so effective and well liked, I suspect, has to do with its psychological coherence and drama; especially the progression from a dark and terrifying beginning to a triumphant conclusion. To have accomplished this sense of motion using mostly whole-tone materials, which are notoriously static, is an accomplishment by any standard. But I think Hudson is right about Fracture's weaknesses. There are too many sequential repetitions of the same material on different levels, the big build up toward the very end being the worst case. My main criticism, however, is one Hudson didn't mention: simply that LTinA Pts 1 and 2 had already done something (expressively, structurally) quite like the two parts of Fracture, only better. A few technical points will illustrate what I mean: LTinA Pt. 1 (4:53ff), like Fracture, also repeats nearly the same riffs on different pitch levels, but it varies them in interesting ways and puts them in different rhythmic positions against the steady bass in 7/8; LTinA Pt. 2 also drives themes from Pt. 1 on to a victorious conclusion, but its repetitions on different degrees, as at :46, are out of sync (the violin moves up while guitar stays put) and broken up by the bass moving in the opposite direction. Fracture is a cogent crystallization of structural-narrative ideas explored in LTinA. It works well, but was it a step forward? Greg Karl New York, NY curugroth at aol dot com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 11:56:50 -0700 From: "Sabin, James" Subject: Technique vs. Inspiration... David Way writes... "Liszt, Pagianini, and Zappa are credited deservedly for writing pieces which require a high degree of technical skill to play; however, just because a piece is of high technical difficulty doesn't mean it's worth listening to. All three have written many great pieces; they have also written a lot of unlistenable crap. Bach, Vivaldi, and The Edge have written pieces which aren't as technically proficient as many of their contemporaries, but their works are much more euphonious. Therefore, I'll take the latter trio over the former in my music collection." This is an interesting age-old debate to try to understand and it affects popular music and musicians as well as the "prog" circle or classical music or jazz. (Witness the G.I.T. school of over-polished rock-guitarists in the 80's and the "grunge" backlash of the 90's.) I have always enjoyed discussing this with many of my friends over the years but I don't think that this is the proper forum for me to elaborate fully on my opinions (I'm not really sure I understand the etiquette of posting yet...). There is only one subtle point that I wanted to comment on from your email and that is this. You say that Liszt, Pagianini, and Zappa wrote a lot of unlistenable crap (agreed) but you ignore the fact that Bach, Vivaldi, and The Edge also wrote/write a lot of unlistenable crap. Now I'm not talking about their compositions not measuring up to some abstract ideal of mine about what a perfect composition is or is not, I just mean that they are not "euphonious" TO ME. What is euphonious or not varies from person to person, so saying that "their works are much more euphonious" is merely saying that you like them more. Well, there are a lot of Vivaldi compositions that I don't particularly like, and a few Bach ones, though not as many, so I wouldn't necessarily say that they are euphonious. Euphoniousness is subjective. To say, "A is more euphonious than B and therefore I'll take A in my music collection" is merely prolixly saying, "I'd rather listen to music that I like." Well, congratulations. Me too. I can understand the suspicion regarding a "composer" whose specialty seems to be performing and "composing" pieces to show off their performing technique (such as Liszt or Pagianini... although the fact that you put Zappa in that group almost seems like a typo). I have the same suspicion regarding that kind of "composer" and I'm a pretty harsh judge of their music, but I'm equally harsh on The Edge, despite his fumbling technique and unpretentious stance. The schooling that a "high brow" musician goes through can sometimes be too much discipline for them and stifle their creativity and inspiration, but every musician has a modicum of technique and a lack of discipline certainly doesn't guarantee their musical integrity. I guess I'm trying to say that your criterion of "do I like it or not?" is sufficient and to bring up issues of technique just distracts the focus away from the real meaning of art. Did that make any sense? James "Blessed are the confused, for they are still thinking." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 15:38:02 -0500 From: razoo at postoffice dot swbell dot net Subject: Any Crimfans in H-Town? Hey All- Ever since my partner in CrimCrime moved to North Texas for a job, there aren't many other dudes who share my enthusiasm for the band and a beer that I've encountered here in Houston. So, I thought I'd check to see if there were any around who wanna share a laugh, a beer, or a tune? Razoo ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 22:07:14 +0100 From: "D. Chinn" Subject: Michael Giles in action again? Regarding queries about Michael Giles' activities... I heard a while back that Michael Giles was recording his first (!) solo album for DGM. I'm not sure who's playing on it, apart from Jakko Jakszyk. For those of you who don't know him, Jakko was formerly with 64 Spoons, David Stewart/Barbara Gaskin, The Lodge (with John Greaves, Peter Blegvad, Anton Fier), and Level 42 (stepping into Allan Holdsworth's shoes, before you scoff). He also recorded various solo releases on Stiff Records and Voiceprint (including some collaborations with Steve Jansen, Richard Barbieri and Mick Karn), has consistently swung madly between the art-rock and '80s pop scene, and is one of the few guitarists to successfully follow the Holdsworth lead (Francis Dunnery also used to do it pretty well). Oh, and he's Michael's son-in-law... It at least suggests that there'll be some high quality musicians on the album. But with a DGM release, you could have guessed that already. Has anyone else heard anything? cheers, Dann Chinn dchinn at btinternet dot com http://www.collective.co.uk/misfitcity ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 17:37:37 -0400 From: nick naclerio Subject: FOREIGNER > Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 14:56:59 EDT > From: Jacques Wapner-Goutier > Subject: Impassioned plea > > This whole DGM Collectors club gives me the runs. I agree > that it is a great thing for KC lovers everywhere, but...I > dont want anymore versions of Easy Money...I already have > 12!!! > > Jacques The above remark prompted me to write a similar missive. I am pleased by everything Fripp or King Crimson related. The various repetitions of many songs on the live recordings never disturbed me. At the risk of excommunication. How often must we be subjected to "Heartbeat"? This Top 40 hit would be better performed by "Foreigner" Where does this fit into King Crimson? And who conspires to keep this song alive? Is "Sugar,Sugar!" next nick naclerio ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 21:58:07 GMT From: "David Way" Subject: Re: Technique vs. Inspiration... James wrote: >I can understand the suspicion regarding a "composer" whose specialty seems >to be performing and "composing" pieces to show off their performing >technique (such as Liszt or Pagianini... although the fact that you put >Zappa in that group almost seems like a typo). I have the same suspicion >regarding that kind of "composer" and I'm a pretty harsh judge of their >music, but I'm equally harsh on The Edge, despite his fumbling technique >and >unpretentious stance. The schooling that a "high brow" musician goes >through can sometimes be too much discipline for them and stifle their >creativity and inspiration, but every musician has a modicum of technique >and a lack of discipline certainly doesn't guarantee their musical >integrity. I guess I'm trying to say that your criterion of "do I like it >or not?" is sufficient and to bring up issues of technique just distracts >the focus away from the real meaning of art. > >Did that make any sense? > >James > >"Blessed are the confused, for they are still thinking." I originally gave my reply to James privately, but I then noticed later that he also posted his e-mail to ET simultaneously. So, I did want to make a few points publicly that I had made privately. In my original trios, I was not creating perfectly homogenous groupings. That was done on purpose. Linking Zappa and The Edge to the other four composers was a bit incongruous, yet there was a thread of logic to the groups (i.e., masters of technique vs. masters of musical "simplicity" (in a relative sense, of course, not an absolute one)). I included Zappa in the first trio because he has, in many interviews, listed Pagianini as a compositional/performing influence. (Whether or not he succeeds is highly debatable.) Yes, we are ultimately discussing matters of opinion here. What inspired my post (and all of the ones that had the same conclusion as mine in ET #598) was the pretentiousness of the original post in ET #597. The poster gave the implication that, since "Fracture" was simplistic stylistically (in the original poster's opinion), therefore, no one should like the piece very much. That is the stance that inspired all of the deserved adversarial replies. I still stand by my original Technique vs. Inspiration comparison, though. Yes, it's only my opinion, but that's all it has to be. Feel free to disagree with it. David P.S. Isn't dialectic wonderful? ;) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 19:28:36 EDT From: CohenMark at aol dot com Subject: Ozric Tentacles @ Wetlands...Many Crimso fans in attendance! Just attended both Ozric Tentacles performances at that bastion of San Fransico style Psychaedelia, Wetlands Preserve in New York City on Friday 7/9 and Saturday 7/10. I gotta tell you, these guys are major league! First of all, both nights I enjoyed lively discussions with people about Ozrics, Dead, and Crimso/Fripp. Apparently, there were many Crimso heads at these Ozric shows. Also, in keeping with my ongoing thread of Dead/Crimso heads, Deadheads were equally represented at these performances. I kind of felt, like this is what it must have been like to see lets say very early Floyd or Genesis. The Ozrics have a totally unique sound. They are tight as hell, jam like mad and you kind of can hear a wide range of influences in their music. I hear snippets of Genesis, Tull, Yes, Floyd, and definitly a little Crimso thrown in there somewhere. But it's very suttle. They really have a sound all their own. Definitly a British Progressive band. And a very hot one at that! Generator John, the bands flute playing front man is sort of like the Syd Barret type of the group. He's way, way, way out there if you know what I mean. The musicianship was spectacular. Check out their website for a gig near you...www.execpc.com/~mwerning or their record companies site www.radiopheonix.com The band allowed (audience) taping, so I patched out a D5 out of my friends DAT which was running off of a pair or Nak 700's which are the type of mics I've always used. Tape came out really great. Ah, but isn't this as it should be? You know, bands that let you tape? Hey, I still bought the new CD at the show (plus a T-shirt). I'm still trying to find the several Ozric CD's I have not been able to find. But THIS band does not mind if you tape live. Why should they mind? Which is my point! Why should Robert mind? This band does not have any philosophy about robbing the moment. Or the real thing vs. the artifact or any of that other nonsense! Anyway, many of my taper friends were there, all hard core Grateful Dead tapers like myself whom been taping together for twenty years, enjoying this really great progressive ensemble. Having rallied all these guys to come down to this show, most of these guys were either completely unfamiliar or mostly unfamiliar with Ozric's. Everyone was blown away! When the encore was over, guess what came on the house PA? You got it! 'Disciple' followed by 'Thela Hun Ginjeet' followed by 'Three of a Perfect Pair'. So we got to listen to Crimso as all the tapers (and the band) broke down their equipment. Very fitting! After the Staurday show a group of us went down the street two blocks away to a private party at this bar called the North Bar at about 2:30AM which was thrown by some friends of mine whom by the way I first met at the Epitaph signing at HMV in NYC. They had gone to the Ozric show on Friday night. We hung out and shared music and taping stories about all of our combined musical interests of which Crimso is definitly well represented. A most enjoyable weekend. If you never heard Ozric Tentacles, do check them out! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 00:38:32 -0400 (EDT) From: pellegrini dot 1 at osu dot edu (Catherine Pellegrini) Subject: Motley Crue plagiarize the great deciever song? Dear Eters, While listening to the song Dr. Feelgood, by Motley Crue, it seems as if during the course of the song they ripped off of the instrumental introduction to the song, great deciever. You have to listen closely but it really is evident that they did. It just goes to show how a 90's band would do something so sly as to do that. Cheers, Jesse Pellegrini ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 09:12:25 +0700 From: "Dave Lumenta" Subject: Re: Classical Composer Influencing Fripp I think it's often mentioned that Fripp likes to quote Igor Stravinsky and Bela Bartok as influences. Logically, Gustav Holst ('The Planets') should also have an influence on him. Other influences were (of course) The Beatles (Eric Tamm quoted the story about Fripp being profoundly delighted hearing 'A Day In The Life'). Dave Lumenta ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 23:53:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Asko Kauppinen Subject: Fripp`s playing. Hello!!! I`m a new friend of Crimson, and so I`m not familiar with all their material yet, but I`m working on it.Like everyone probably knows, Fripp is one of the most respected guitarist appearing during the last 50 years.I see his face every time I open any book introducing important musicians. So I`d be very pleased if some of you guys could tell me more about Fripp`s career and the reasons he is so respected.What are he`s main achievements, and what has he developed so greatly??? [ Please reply to Asko by private mail only. Posts on this topic *will not* be included in ET. -- Toby ] Thank you. Do You Yahoo!? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 10:46:01 -0400 (EDT) From: pellegrini dot 1 at osu dot edu (Catherine Pellegrini) Subject: who is Gordon Haskell? After buying Lizard sometime back I think one of King Crimson's best singers was Gordon Haskell. He was even better than John wetton and Boz Burrell, but didn't come from any commercial band. Was he a friend of Robert Fripp's? You never know who he was or why he left the band, but i thought his work as a singer on the Lizard album was terrific. I know Elton John was going to try and sing on that album. That might have made sense in 1970, I wonder why he was rejected. Having Jon Anderson with his fairy voice singing the Lizard song was a mistake. I think the whole song would have sounded better with a more tenor like voice. I thought Gordon Haskell was Sting because Sting's real name was Gordon. Jesse Pellegrini ------------------------------ Date: 12 Jul 99 13:45:45 EDT From: James Dusewicz Subject: RE: Fracture Yes, I happen to think that "Fracture" kicks ass! That slow brooding opening of the theme, then Robert comes in on guitar, the theme restatement. Then that beautiful picking Fripp does inbetween the gradual buildup to the roller coaster ending. Given its shifting dynamics it has more than a casual resemblence to "Viola Lee Blues". The process of stretching the song to unrecognisable shape is the attraction. jim campaigner at usa dot net James Dusewicz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 15:03:42 -0400 From: Robert Speak <"rspeak"@erols.com> Subject: Who was the best opening band for KC? While reading the comments of J A Sontag regarding the Philadelphia Crimson shows of the 80's I started to think of what made the Beat show so special. IMHO it was the opening band, none other than Jon Anderson of Yes. During this time there wasn't a version of Yes around, Jon had released a solo album Animation (very overlooked!) and listening to the crowd chatter, many were there ot see Jon not KC. Well, after doing some songs from his album they launched into a killer Yes set, playing many of their "hits" from the 70's. His band consisted of David Sancious on keyboards and Clem Clemson on guitar (Actually I think this was the Jack Bruce Band at the time with some one else on bass) The band 's added soulfullness gave some different interpretations to the Yes classics. They burned ! The audience was pumped before Crimson even came out. I would guess the members of Crimson had to be excited to see this. Two great shows in one night. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 21:58:18 +0200 From: "Christian Skina" Subject: Collector's Club: help with info please hello list some of you are living encyclopaedias and I hope someone will make clear to me what's all this about: I've been waiting for the Jazz Cafe release. I once read that it has been released (USA or Japan?) as a double cd (as a club release or for the rest of the "mortals"?). Then, I've seen somewhere posted that it's going to be released this summer as a club item. Now I have just received a DGM email saying that the Project Box (?) will be released in October (which Project?). Same email contains the following: "Volume 7 will be "ProjeKct 4 Live in San Francisco". Oh my gawd! My question is: when and under which label will be the Jazz Cafe concerts released? Thanks and excuses for my ignorance, in which I massively indulge these days. Christian ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 09:06:45 +0200 From: "accoutumance" Subject: Remastering KC/ Projeckt Box I received the information on line via E-mail... What a few good surprises.... Just note two things : 1) Finally, the PBox set will be available directly at your services. Around the 16th of August. One month to wait so... 2) It has been said the remastering Fripp is planning to do for the KC Virgin catalogue might be as Cirkus, a reduced vinyl format. No, no, sir, it MUST ! Hope the price will stay the same...the music industry really disgust me at times. Listen folks, in 10 years of time, i've bought three times all the genesis collection : the first poor edition (priced at # 9.00), then in 1994 the DEFINITIVE EDITION (well, that's what they said...but they were full of errors in credits) at the same price and now, two months ago the reduced vinyl edition from Japan, slightly more expensive. Even though the KC dc's were marked DEFINITVE EDITION as well, i am ready to sell all mines to buy those one. But what will happen if MP3 will work worldwide ? 3) I know i insist but notice also that Van Der Graaf Generator, which was as well as genesis a Charsima artist, has been the subject of a one shot release by Virgin, in 1989. No remastering, no definitve edition. So, i precedently suggested that DGM might be manage itself to have the rights to published them also in a reduced vinyl format. It will be so great, Peter Hammill being already in the DGM catalogue. Does anybody here find the idea attractive ? Do you think such a project has been discussed before ? Hey, folks, let me know what you think about it. Thanks, and see ya' ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 08:54:45 PDT From: "Matt D" Subject: FFWD disc I recently picked up this disc (mostly ambient type stuff) with Fripp on it. I was wondering what i may be worth? I have been told it is out of print. Was the 8.00 i spent on it a good deal? Let me know by private email. Matt ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 17:41:02 EDT From: MongoBoy at aol dot com Subject: T. Lev I've just read today on Tony Levin's web page Papa Bear Records that the Seal back-up band has been canceled due to poor ticket/cd/etc sales. He'd expected to be on the road with Seal for another year at least. I wonder how this will play into the next incarnation of KC (if at all) since 'the door was left open" for Tony & Bill to rejoin when/if time permits. Interesting.... Perhaps another key is turning in a lock somewhere is Dorset. Matt from Seattle (Not Matt Seattle) ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 18:10:35 -0400 From: "Dan B." Subject: More "Fracture" noise I'd figure I'd chime in on this discussion of debating "Fracture". The original poster must realize that any grouping of notes that stays memorable in the minds of its listeners is successful. The 'order' of Fracture is well-thoughtout and executed. Also, to describe Fracture as simply a series of 'whole-tone scales' is a very narrow view: just look at all the classic modal jazz pieces that have been composed over the years. Are we to simply dismiss Mile Davis' "So What" as just a series of whole tone notes? I don't think so. Music is truly about phrasing anyway. The 'feel' adherent in the performance is what is important. On a different note: had the happy opportunity to sit down with 'Lizard' playing over the headphones, and to reconnect to this classic: it really does take you into an entirely different timeless space and environment (and isn't that what music should be possible to do?). For something recorded back in '70 there is excellent fidelity (good studio work for 1970) to hear the different instrumentation and overall sound balance. More importantly, the playing is superb and I find Gordon Haskell's singing (and bass too) to hit many resonant notes. Brilliant brass, Keith Tippett!, skillful drumming (What happended to that guy?), Fripp's wonderful guitar manipulations & creations, and those lyrics. What care and craft and magic is in this music. (Final "What If" scenario: imagine a touring Crimson of Fripp, Tippett, Collins, Haskell & McCullough. Might've been pretty good.) -- "I don't want to spend my life explaining myself. Either you get it or you don't." -- Frank Zappa ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #599 ********************************