Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #589 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 589 Sunday, 16 May 1999 Today's Topics: NEWS: Adrian's Corner Update Contemplating 1972 To Bill Corlus ( ? ) Control Freaks? ET's Promising Future 1. Eb 2. CC#3 G3 response ProjeKct guitars: who's who? another view on Ozric & Cynic Re:proper bass gear / indisciple-mining rocks Ian McDonald's new album was already released in Japan Indiciples Mining rocks 21st plus 9 Act From Principal The Residents' Identities 17.What does 'VROOOM' stand for? Collector's Club #4 Belew's EH Box and Residents mis-information presumptuous meddling #1 GIG REVIEW: Bruford Earthworks Knitting factory 5/14 GIG REVIEW: Earthworks 5/10/99 ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.5b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 20:23:15 -0500 From: "Rob Murphree" Subject: NEWS: Adrian's Corner Update Hi All, Just a quick note to let you know that Adrian has posted an all new update to Adrian's Corner over at his web site. www.murple.com/adrianbelew There's lots of great information about his upcoming solo tour, new release, what's he's been working on and most importantly here, King Crimson. Please drop by and read it for yourself. I will be posting his tour itinerary here as well as on Adrian's web site as soon as it's been confirmed. You can also, if you haven't already, sign up to be notified of the tour via email. For more info, visit: www.murple.com/adrianbelew/tour.htm That's all for now. As always, if any of you need more information on Adrian, you can find it at his web site. -Rob _______________________________________ Rob Murphree's Official Adrian Belew WWW Site www.murple.com/adrianbelew ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 13:13:13 +0100 From: Russell Whitworth Subject: Contemplating 1972 I recently listened to three recordings from 1972 or thereabouts, in close proximity: 1. Collectors Club No.2 - Fripp, Collins, Burrell & Wallace for the most part struggling with something that just isn't coming together. Moments of brilliance from Fripp and Collins, but much of the rest is pretty dreadful. Don't get me wrong, I do actually like this album! But more in a "completist, collectors' club" sort of way rather than something I'd care to listen to for quiet relaxation. Remembering Adrian Belew's challenge a couple of years back along the lines of "shut up unless you think you could do better", this is the only Crimson line-up that to which my answer would be "I'm not sure, but I'd be willing to give it a try!" 2. Yessongs. Needs little introduction here. A very creative "prog rock" band at the height of their collective powers. Sadly it was mostly downhill all the way from here for Yes (punctuated by occasional successes), but at the time they were surely the finest in this genre. 3. Collectors Club No.3 - Fripp, Bruford, Wetton, Cross & Muir. A bit rough at the edges, but here the brilliance and creativity absolutely shine through. Wonderful hints of greatness to come over the next four studio albums. Listening to this lot, a couple of questions arise: 1. How on earth did Fripp manage to turn this burnt out wreck into such a reborn phoenix, in just a few short months? 2. What really attracted Bruford to Crimson? He must have been familiar with their early work through joint gigs with Yes, but was he aware of the more recent material? What would cause someone to leave such a huge success story, to join something that gave every appearance of being on its last legs? Compare "Yessongs" with "Earthworks"... which band would you rather join? -- Russell Whitworth http://www.anchorag.demon.co.uk/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 16:16:58 +0900 From: "John Boudreau" Subject: To Bill Corlus ( ? ) To Bill Corlus , I inadvertently deleted your mail so cannot e-mail directly with my address . Please contact me as soon as possible re: Lone Rhino . John in Japan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 14:35:18 -0400 From: "John Ott" Subject: Control Freaks? Eb Writes: > Here's what I'm saying: the DGM guestbook and mailing list are > strategically designed to sabotage ET and render it an impotent, > ineffectual little brother. > etc Talk about your conspiracy theories!! The DGM guestbook is feedback for customers of DGM, not to destroy ET ET is and has always been and email list for things Crimso and Frippish. For fans to fans, not to be noticed by Mr. Fripp. If I have something to say to Mr. Fripp, I will use the DGM guestbook. If I have something to say to my fellow ETers, I use ET. You label Fripp a control freak. Why? Because he wishes to control his own companies web site? or because he wishes ET does not exist? In the former case, it is certainly understandable for the CEO of any company to influence the direction of a company including its web site. In the latter, if he wishes ET to cease to exist, he is not doing a very good job. But ET exists because of the interest in Mr Fripp's work, not at Mr. Fripp's leave. In fact dopey posts like Eb's probably chase away more ETers than any action of Mr. Fripp. later John ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 13:58:37 -0500 (CDT) From: flaherty michael w Subject: ET's Promising Future As we follow with growing anticipation Eb's decision as to whether or not he will continue to subscribe :) ... With the addition of Robert Fripp's diary to the web, not to mention a much more active DGM cite, it is not surprising that the nature of ET will change. Clearly, DGM is now the main source for "Fripp news". But I see this not as a negative for ET, but as a potential for a better future. ET is often contains many posts by those who are really directing their comments not at the other readers of ET, but at Mr. Fripp. This includes a great number of suggestions that are dated, silly, or both. Also, as news becomes available many of us are quick to post the news to ET--only to find that a dozen other members have done so. Finally, knowledge of Mr. Fripp's reading of ET often turns the forum into a fanzine. (I was ammused last fall when Fripp attacked ET to at how many members of the newsletter were quick to disassociate themselves from it.) It seems to me that as DGM takes on all of the above duties, ET offers us something that DGM never will: a forum for discussion. If the newsletters become smaller, so be it. A forum that emphasizes quality over quantity should be applauded for the rarity that it is. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 15:36:34 -0400 From: "Gordon Emory Anderson" Subject: 1. Eb 2. CC#3 First of all... to all those up in arms about Eb recent rantings concerning ET, let us remember that this is Eb afterall (didn't he complain abou ET being too large a while ago?) Eb could complain about ANYTHING. For instance.... "Hey Eb, did you hear world hunger's been eliminated?" "World hunger?! What about all those agenices feeding the poor? Do ya' wanna put them out of business?" "Hey Eb, King Crimson's got an album of all new material coming out!!" "Yeah? Well, it's been so long I don't think I'm interested anymore. In fact, I don't really like King Crimson." And so on.... About the Bremen Beat Club... I got this by accident, thinking that joining the Collectors club right after the release of Live in the Arch d'Froggy would not only get me that release (it didn't: sold out!), and have me avoid old-era stuff I'm not super interested in (I was wrong, CC#s 2&3 were quickly sent to me). But the Bremen Beat Club's got some really interesting things about it. First of all, it's in Mono, and the sound quality would not be considered great. But it's flaws sonically are "subtractive" (in audiophile speak), so the overall result is actually quite listenable. Second of all, it is fascinating to hear how radically this band had changed in its sound from what must be only months before. It's hard to believe these guys had been together for several months before making this. Jamie Muir also sounds quite interesting here. He has a very odd percusive sound that seems drawn to sharp attacks. In this context, Fripp's leadership' of King Crimson also seems to be different than what might normally be percieved. He actually seems to seek out performers who would take KC's sound and then make it their own, and then move it on its way, as opposed to looking for "sidemen" to his concept. He seems to have a "I'll know it when I see it" approach as opposed to "I'm looking for men who will give body to my idea". With Bremen we can glimpse that with Muir, King Crimson could have mutated into a much more avante-garde unit. -Emory ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 14:46:45 +0100 From: umrk at home dot com Subject: G3 response Well, Fripp played only soundscapes by himself to open the shows. However, for a portion of his set Mike Keneally came out and joined him. This was fabulous as Keneally is truly an amazing guitarist. I highly recommend picking up any Keneally albums. Sluggo! is a good place to start. JZ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 11:13:21 +1200 From: David MacLennan Subject: ProjeKct guitars: who's who? Been listening to the Jap P1 & 2 live discs, especially the former, and was wondering if anyone who also has these can throw some light on who's who on guitar? For P1 I'm guessing Gunn on the left and Fripp on the right. But given that Gunn can sound uncannily like the master at times, it could be the other way round. Perhaps someone who was at the Jazz Cafe can provide the definitive answer? David Maclennan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 20:17:48 EDT From: Mikewyz at aol dot com Subject: another view on Ozric & Cynic In regards to recent posts I thought I'd add $.02 on a couple of bands mentioned: Ozric Tentacles should get credit for anticipating the electronic influence in much of today's music. However, as a Crimhead for several years, I can't say their music does much for me (even when I saw them at the Whisky in Los Angeles 5 years ago). After a while, all their songs began to sound very similar: odd-meter groove, flanged keyboards, guitar solo, then change the meter and do more. Occasionally some weirdo would blow a flute solo over it. The most "progressive" part of the evening was probably the guy who came out before the band and recited most of the lyrics to Yes' "Awaken" Several years ago I, too, heard of Cynic and bought their album "Focus." Listeners may note that this band was on the Roadrunner label (meaning: "fast, faster, fastest!"). While I like Dream Theater, Cynic sounds like Dream Theater covering grindcore. It's loaded with intensity, but it's not musical intensity as in "Indiscipline" or "Talking Drum"; it's more forced intensity, where tempos have been jacked up and every note is hammered into one's head in hopes that it will be more powerful. I'd agree that some Crimheads would like Cynic, but I think the majority of Crimheads wouldn't be able to get into it, as I wasn't. Just another Crimhead's opinion on bands... /\/\ \/\/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 22:08:21 -0400 From: Brian Preston Subject: Re:proper bass gear / indisciple-mining rocks 1) Wetton used fairly straight forward gear as I understand but I dont have the specifics. Seems like it was a Fender P or J through a few (or a lot) of tube amps like HiWatts or Marshalls. Sounds like he used a distortion/fuzz pedal for his overdriven crunches...ala USA, Asbury Park, etc. I am getting a similar tone through my Hartke/ custom speaker rig with Korg processing. Fretted or fretless, its a barrel of fun.:) But, my friend, why dont you develop your own sound? 2) I also have Indisciple Mining Rocks. Pretty cool...obviously rough early versions of ShelSky and Howler... dont remember the quality being quite good enough though...before digital kids, remember? It was good to see the 81 and 82 shows!! Nice to be back on ET after a 3 year hiatus. BKPreston Metaphoric Music Prod. Smokin'Granny http://mindspring.com/~davido42/smokingranny ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 12:26:55 +0900 From: "Satoshi TETSU Takahashi" Subject: Ian McDonald's new album was already released in Japan Hello ETers. Ian McDonald's new album ( Drivers Eyes ) was already released in Japan. 1. Overture 2. In Your Hands 3. Your Are A Part Of Me 4. Sax Fifth Avenue 5. Forever And Ever 6. Saturday Night In Tokyo 7. Hawaii 8. Straight Back To You 9. If I Was 10. Demimonde 11. Let There Be Light Typical guest musicians are as follows. Michael Giles plays drums on track 3 ( intro only ) and track 10. Steve Hackett plays harmonica on track 3 and guitar on track 8. John Wetton sings track 5. Lou Gramm sings track 8. I think the following two points deserves special mention. Track 10 is purely a McDonald and Giles track. Track 11 is wrote with Pete Sinfield. $B!]!]!]!]!]!]!]!]!]!]!]!]!]!]!]!]!]!]!]!]!]!]!]!](B Satoshi TETSU Takahashi E-MAIL :t2t at mbd dot sphere dot ne dot jp King Crimson Data Base ( http://www1.sphere.ne.jp/crimson/ ) $B!]!]!]!]!]!]!]!]!]!]!]!]!]!]!]!]!]!]!]!]!]!]!]!](B ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 22:18:24 PDT From: "Bill Chachkes" Subject: Indiciples Mining rocks to the Et'er who posted "it was made to look like a legitimate promotional release" thats because it was originally intended to be just that, except that the sound quality was so horrific that it's my guess that Robert would have nothing to do with it. I purchased mine in the cut out bin of a famous but "will remain nameless" new york city record store....it was one of the last records i ever purchased..as i went digital a few months later. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 20:31:10 -0400 From: tj Subject: 21st plus 9 My receipt for Live Groove from cdnow says 'Love Groove.' Indeed. At the end of the last track, 21stcsm, there is over 9 minutes of recorded audience mayhem that follows the apparent departure of P2 after a "flash" of death. I would think a few readers here will recognize their own voices of apology, anger, and vengeance directed in multiple directions. Glad it didn't happen in my town. And so it becomes part of the permanent record. tj ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 23:37:01 -0700 From: "Moonan" Subject: Act From Principal Hello ETers, I was lurking around the DGM zone this evening and read a new little" Fripp Quote" on the bottom of the page.This one simply said "Act From Principal" And I thought, What great advice to live ones life by...Hmmmm, Back to lurking... Peace, Rick ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 08:26:04 -0600 From: "Mary Rogers" Subject: The Residents' Identities > 1) I am not very knowledgable about the Residents, other than their > weird but cool music, but I'm CERTAIN that I heard that they have > already revealed their identities. Anyone care to confirm/deny this? I'm not sure of the spellings, but the two residents are named Homer Flynn and Hardy Fox. A good friend of mine was a sound editor on Peewee's Playhouse, in which they did an episode's musical soundtrack. Homer and Hardy are mentioned by name on a video cassette of theirs; I think it was the Freak Show. Bill JaKcobson ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 10:53:15 -0400 From: "Ugo Ducharme" Subject: 17.What does 'VROOOM' stand for? I read the answers to this question in your FAQ and I came to the conclusion that the mysitique around King Crimson is so big for some people that they can't see the meanning of things, thinking propably that the message can't be so evident. Fist of all, why should VROOOM should be an acronym? Because of the capital letter? I don't think so. I believe that VROOOM simply refer the the sound of a car! If it's in capital propably indicate that the car is making loud noises. If you look the the insert of the THRAK album, you'll notice that all pictures refer to a car accident (Metalic pipe, a car, broken bones, broken glass, being hit etc.) Maybe the emotions expressed in theses songs are about a car accident. Since I experienced a car accident when I was younger, listenig to the music and looking the pictures really make me fell that part of this album is about car accident. Even the onomatopia you refer to (THRAK, Crash, Wallop, etc.). proves me right. Ugo Ducharme ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 14:28:03 PDT From: "Jonathan Dann" Subject: Collector's Club #4 Collector's Club release #4 arrives. And the verdict? As RF might say: "Beast! Beast!" In my opinion this is the best CC release so far. The cover is superb and I'm sure there's a great caption or two to go with that photo! The sound quality is nothing short of perfect - I'd say that we're talking about something that's on a par with a "first division" release here, so to receive this as a Club release is indeed a treat. The performance is excellent too. Can we wait until June and August for the two volumes of "Live on Broadway"? Yes, but only just. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 14:07:54 -0700 (PDT) From: max imu Subject: Belew's EH Box and Residents mis-information ksimonso at st-johns dot org re: Belews "Box on a Stand": > After watching "The Noise" and a buncha recorded >footage of the 80's KC, I'm pretty sure the box >everyone is referring to is an Electro-Harmonix >PolyChorus / EchoFlange / PolyFlange. Indeed, Belew noted in some mag interview that he had an ElectroHarmonix PolyChorus that he'd had a technician remount on a stand and I think rewired to reduce AC and line noise. I think Fripp had one too. I wanna say it was a Musician article circa 1984 that covered Crimso gear or at least Belew's. The switches in my PolyChorus are poorly built and fall off a lot if not handled gently. ElectroHarmonix made some of the cooler guitar boxes of the late 70s and they are manufactured again after being rare for years (EH went bankrupt and another company bought the rights and designs since) but they're pretty expensive now. Their MemoryMan 16 second analog delay was I think the one oft referred to as a Fripp-in-a-box. Pretty sure Belew had an EH-7700 Polychorus flange/chorus/slapback echo/filter matrix. Some EH links: http://www.turnstyle.com/nsc/catalog.asp?raster=08EE.0xF24520E04E5309F7.1E24.0.5687&item=EH%2DPLY&category=eheffects (there's a picture here and note that Belew and Kurt Cobain used this, but follow links via http://www.ehx.com/ if you have problems typing all that... $264 seems a bit steep but it's a cool pedal and someone is asking $375 for a used one on another EH related site.) a review of one describing the effects in a way that might explain why Adrian liked it: http://www.harmony-central.com/Effects/Data/Sovtek/Poly-Chorus-01.html and an unofficial ElectroHarmonix site that has loads of info: http://home.earthlink.net/~theehman/index.html Steve McMillan wrote: >1) I am not very knowledgable about the Residents, >other than their weird but cool music, but I'm >CERTAIN that I heard that they have already revealed >their identities. Anyone care to confirm/deny this? They never came right out and unmasked but they've toyed around with hints a lot in videos and interviews and it's widely thought that the official spokepersons for the Cryptic Corp, Homer Flynn and Hardy Fox, are in fact the core Residents. Jay Clem and John Kennedy are also sometimes credited as the early others, though J. Raoul Brody has been said to be also, but he's one of the few who has performed with the band unmasked. Anyway, most of the Rez-Heads I knew in the Residents home town of San Francisco believe it's Homer and Hardy conceptualizing and vocalizing things. As far as the eyeball masks, one of the 4 was stolen on the 13th Anniv tour and replaced by a black skull as a gesture of mourning. I believe the 4th Eyeball was eventually returned, or they just made a new one. MAX from Italy: >it's not Fripp supposed to be a Residents guest, but >FRED FRITH avant-garde guitarist who is said to be a >guest in some of their shows and records. (He >supposedly joined after the death of >Snakefinger, ... since all musicians always appeared >wearing masks... Frith had a 5 record deal with Ralph but only delivered 3 before the label was sold off. He worked with them prior to Snakefinger's death and is credited on Subterranean Modern, a Various Artists sampler on Ralph circa 1981. He's also apparent on bass on ditties on the 40 one-minute song concept lp "The Commercial Album" along with Lene Lovich and other uncredited guests. Many people seem to confuse Fripp and Frith's names, especially as they've both worked with Eno. As far as I know Frith never played live with the Residents though he's rumored to be moving back to San Francisco so he probably will someday. Snakefinger never wore masks when playing with them live, I know as I saw him with them at least twice. The guitartist recently thought to be Fripp doesn't seem likely to be Fripp IMHO, but the mention of Larry LaLonde sounds like a clue -- Primus and the Residents are friends, live near each other and I know members of the Residents have performed with Primus. At this point the Residents would seem to be more a large ensemble theater troupe than a band. The live performances typically include dancers and theatrical sets and though there's never usually more than 4 Eyeballed or masked "band" members on stage they seem to occasionally have larger breasts but not always. Singer Laurie Amat has performed on recent records and live, unmasked and credited. Obviously to pull off large shows and tours as they have there are many people involved in the band and supporting them so the identities are not as secret as some might think. They just play it up and act coy about it. Penn and Teller did a funny act as part of the shared-bill 13th Anniversary tour where they claimed they would unmask a Resident if the always Speechless Teller would speak, or at least sing a Residents song. The punchline was that when they unmasked the Resident it was Teller. Penn & Teller did also some hilarious improvised noise music that seemed like it could well have been a parody of King Crimson's industrial material on Three of a Perfect Pair. Not many folks know that Penn started off doing improvised music and comedy theatrics in Philadelphia in the 70s. - Malcolm Humes, killing time in High Point, North Carolina ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 18:10:10 +0100 From: mph2 Subject: presumptuous meddling #1 Here's a service that all Disciplinarians can do to facilitate the entry of DGM music into the world: go into your local Our Price/HMV/Virgin record store and have a delve in that loathsome and thankfully neglected section entitled 'Various'. Remove all copies of 'Sometimes God Hides' and 'Sometimes God Smiles' which have probably been languishing there for months and, without drawing attention to yourself, transfer them to the 'King Crimson' section, where I vouchsafe they will be promptly snapped up. I did this in Canterbury and can testify to this tactic's effectiveness. Ask not what Discipline can do for you, but what you can do for Discipline! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 09:21:42 -0400 From: "Roy Miles" Subject: GIG REVIEW: Bruford Earthworks Knitting factory 5/14 Caught the early show of Bill Bruford's new Earthworks band last night at the Knitting factory in NYC. I came out of the show not sure if I was more impressed with the playing, or the material they played. The saxophonist, Patrick Clahar, was excellent, especially when he played soprano. Steve Hamilton played what looked like a digital piano, and he was very good as well. He seemed to be influenced pretty heavily by Bill Evans, but I guess alot of jazz pianists are. The bass playing by Mark Hodgson was very tight, and Bruford was his usual tight, synopated off-beat self. It was amazing how he kept switching from a traditional jazz feel to a rock beat from measure to measure seamlessly. They did a couple of old Earthworks tunes from the first album (My Heart Declares a Holiday, and Bridge of Inhibition), and one fabulous reworking of a BLUE tune, Etude Revisted. The rest was new stuff, and was quite impressive. I took a couple of friends who normally listen to heavy metal (going to see Motorhead Tuesday), and they really liked the show. The only slight disappointment was that weren't selling the new CD at the gig, and they didn't let us stay for the 2nd set (which Bill announced would be "90% different than the first set"). Definitely go to see them if you get the chance. Roy Miles carne at newyorknet dot net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 20:47:17 -0400 From: tj Subject: GIG REVIEW: Earthworks 5/10/99 Five dc-eters made there way towards Annapolis, Maryland to see Earthworks last night. A few things: The brew at Ram's Head got high marks. I had forgotten that Bill smokes cigarettes. Imo the audience did not seem very jazz oriented. That is at times their reactions seem rock like. Does that make sense? During one bass solo the bass player let off with a pause with what seemed to me more to follow but the audience assumed he was done and he was forced to stop. His face just dropped. Ok flames directly please. I thought several times that Bill played too much for this setup. (What would a solo Bruford concert sound like?) It made me think about what Robert wrote about his playing in the 80s (Musician Mag.) His solo was full of sparseness and harshness and was simply dreamy. Has anybody ever asked him what Jazz drummers he likes? tj ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #589 ********************************