Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #587 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 587 Tuesday, 4 May 1999 Today's Topics: NEWS: Mujician in Toronto! Damn!!! Fripp a Resident??? Semiotic Fripp RE: Belew Toys and then there were fewer Post-Allen Gong; scared of the monster Bruford 1976 "Exposure"; Brufordiana Lone Rhino LP re:BB in Gong DGM and Credit Adrian on NPR in Real Audio Loop guitar in London, part two RE: Bruford(1975-?) Re: oh boy oh boy oh boy Adrian's toys, too late for Marquee, BB in Genesis Toyah CD's King Crimson books-Fripp Dairy Re: Zappa Hendrix strat Re Mr. Belew & His Toys recent purchases: Cheerfully Insane Frippster Progfest '99 Anyone? Exposure Live! Paganini, Barrios and Fripp - what a couple we three are! REVIEW: P1 Live at the Jazz Cafe ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.5b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 05:12:52 -0400 From: Jim Bailey Subject: NEWS: Mujician in Toronto! Damn!!! Yes folks, Mujician (Tippett/Levin/Rogers/Dunmall) will be playing here in Toronto on May 21st. They will be part of the Toronto sidebar to the Victoriaville, PQ. Festival de Musique Actuelle - basically a smaller version of that event which attempts to bring at least some of the performers here who might not come otherwise. It will be at The Music Gallery, 179 Richmond St. W., Toronto, start time 8:00 p.m. For more information on the series (and a Real Audio clip!) go to: http://www.interlog.com/~musicgal/May99.html Why do I say "damn!!!" in the subject you ask? Well, the day before they play here, I fly out to Halifax, Nova Scotia for a brother-in-law's wedding. Argh!!! I'll have to have a few strong words with that boy about his bad sense of timing. For those in the area who loved Keith's contributions to the early KC, this one is a must-see. I only wish I could. Jim Bailey ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 02:10:26 -0700 From: "Steve McMillan" Subject: Fripp a Resident??? I am both fascinated and skeptical about the thread that Robert Fripp might be a (new?) Resident. 1) I am not very knowledgable about the Residents, other than their weird but cool music, but I'm CERTAIN that I heard that they have already revealed their identities. Anyone care to confirm/deny this? 2) Is this some kind of very late April Fool's joke? Comments: A) The more I listen to Jimi Hendrix, the more influence I hear in Fripp's playing style. The brilliant song "Drifting" on First Rays of the New Sun" seems to have influenced much of Robert's playing style. (Don't take this as a negative-I love both guitarists.) B) Sometimes God Smiles should be required listening for all Crimheads... C) With Peter Gabriel's new upcoming CD Up, and presumably a tour, will Tony Levin run into any scheduling conflicts? Gotta go. Steve M. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:05:53 +0700 From: "Dave Lumenta" Subject: Semiotic Fripp Just a thought If we can perceive music as a signifying process (in de Saussure-an terms), what Fripp is trying to do is simply to keep the 'musician' out of that process, or let's say that he is trying to achieve the musician's death as a 'signifier' and 'signified'. Only this explains why: 1. "KC is a way of doing things" 2. RF doesn't like to photographed or give autographs during shows 3. RF doesn't bother to try different incarnations 4. RF doesn't bother about how many times KC does incarnate or reform 5. RF prefers a hot date rather than a calling card (records can be perceived as photographs) 6. Why RF closed down the DGM guestbook 7. Why RF refused Eric Tamms book project about him And it also explains why RF is concerned about controlling his copyrights and criticize current music industry practices: 1. The music industry has interest in keeping consumers focused on the artist 2. The music industry needs to label the artist 3. The music industry works against the natural law of 'process' 4. 1,2,3 = involvement in the process 5. 4 = means to generate profits. In my opinion, KC is not RF or vice versa. RF only appears to be present. Have nice debates ! Dave Lumenta ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 13:17:07 -0700 From: "Joey Aguilera" Subject: RE: Belew Toys >>>>>>>snip<<<<<<<<<<<< I don't believe that is Zappas' Strat Adrian was playing. Adrian is also the possessor of an old beat up Strat (see the cover of "Lone Rhino") I think he retired it prior to doing the Twang Bar King album/tour (I saw the show in San Francisco, and he was playing the Roland guitar synth with the "Twang Bar" cover motif paintjob) >>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<< I remember reading somewhere that while with Zappa, Belew had an old and ugly beat up strat that Frank kept telling him he should get rid of. So while he was away from the studio some of the guys got it and burnt it up to make it look cooler =) Not sure how correct I am with this story but it went something like that. >>>>>>>>>snip<<<<<<<<<<<<< As for Belew's effect on a stand, I don't own the video, but it might be one of the old Roland ParaphonicGuitarSynthesizers. >>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<< I think this was an old Flanger that would get stuck on some setting that sounded something like air ( "Frame by Frame" ) . He liked the effect so kept it on his stand so he could get to the knobs with ease. Correct me if I am wrong =) Joey Aguilera ________________________ Six Degrees of Fripp http://www.indiscipline.net/fripp/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 13:35:07 -0800 From: Eb Subject: and then there were fewer >From: DanKirkd at aol dot com > >Just a quick word to announce DGM's new NEWS mailing list is >now taking subscriptions at >http://www.discipline.co.uk/news/news.htm . Sheesh. And thus, the fading ET population becomes thinned even more. Actually, ET is probably lose *me* with this one. Maybe the ET administrators should just let Fripp moderate this list, and let him delete all the submissions which He doesn't find "instructive." Seems to be the only option left, at this point. While I'm still here, I'll toss out some superfluous hype. My approximate top eight albums of 1999, the first four months (why eight? because I'm ambivalent about recommending any others): 1. Tom Waits/Mule Variations 2. XTC/Apple Venus Volume I 3. Beth Orton/Central Reservation 4. The Olivia Tremor Control/Black Foliage: Animation Music 5. Sleater-Kinney/The Hot Rock 6. Jason Falkner/Can You Still Feel? 7. Paul Westerberg/Suicaine Gratification 8. Beulah/When Your Heartstrings Break. Check 'em out. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 15:45:39 -0700 From: "Scott Steele" Subject: Post-Allen Gong; scared of the monster More about Gong: >When the band moved to Arista, the name became "Pierre Moerlen's Gong", and they released three fine albums ("Downwind", "Live", "Time is the Key"), I cannot endorse any of these three records, even though I often name Gazeuse! as my favorite album when I am pressed to narrow it down to only one. >and one not-so-good one ("Leave it Open"). This one I have not heard. >Two later albums appeared on some other label I forget right now ("Breakthrough" and "Second Wind"; neither is worth expending the time to listen to). I would rate "Second Wind" over "Downwind", "Time is the Key", or "Live". >Another live album was released recently, which I've not heard. This is called "Full Circle" and is available from Pangea Music www.pangeamusic.com - of all these, it is the best of the lot. Gazeuse! fans, take note. >I'm pretty sure that Mick Taylor was only on Expresso II. The famous guitarist on Live (and Downwind, BTW) is Mike Oldfield. Oldfield is not on "Live". Bon Lozaga is. >Holdsworth is on Gaseuze, Expresso II, and Time is the Key. He is barely on Time is the Key (one 3-part song), and his solo is treated with signal processing so much that you can barely tell it's him. >Lewis: I'm scared of the monster, Daddy. Thanks for passing that story along! - S. scottst at ohsu dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 19:32:17 -0400 (EDT) From: "Weissenburger - Jeremy S." Subject: Bruford 1976 >From: "Dave Lumenta" >Subject: Re: Bruford 1974-76 / Gong >Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 23:54:21 +0700 > >2. Genesis 1976 > >As far as I know, the Trick Of The Tail Tour (in which BB >participated as live drummer) rehearsals commenced in >february 1976 (in Dallas ?) and the tour ended around >september 1976. A documented film (although sometimes >obstructed by unnecessary footage) of this tour is available >on a Japanese LD (I forgot the exact title, Genesis Live >1976 I guess), showing interesting double drum work w/ >Collins. List of songs (not in order, since I watched the >film some 2 years ago): >From a few semi-decent bootlegs that are out there, we do know that the regular setlist for the 1976 show was: Dance On A Volcano - "Lamb Stew" (The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway/Fly On A Winshield/The Carpet Crawl) - The Cinema Show - Robbery, Assault & Battery - White Mountain - Firth of Fifth - Entangled - Squonk - Supper's Ready - I Know What I Like - Los Endos - It/Watcher of the Skies >For newcomers: Bruford's >drumming with Genesis (all are takes from the 1976 tour) >could be heard on: Cinema Show - on the double live CD >'Seconds Out' (1977) It / Watcher Of The Skies - on the >double live CD 'Three Sides Live' (1982, only available on >the British Virgin release) Genesis' catalog has recently remastered this CDs, and the remastered _3 Sides Live_ has the set-up of the British version of _3 Sides Live_. The studio pieces that were on the US release are (supposedly) to surface on a later Genesis box set. >3) Chris Squire / Steve Howe > >Squire's solo album 'Fish Out Of Water' (Atlantic released >this album on CD, but I've heard it's already out of print. >The last available CD's are German pressings) was recorded >in January 1975, during Yes' break between the Relayer's LP >release and its world tour which began in mid 1975. Steve >Howe's album 'Beginnings' should've been recorded around the >same months. _Beginnings_ has been recently re-released, so one should be able to find that CD. Squire does keep saying he'll rerelease _Fish Out Of Water_, but Lord knows when that'll happen. --Jeremy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 20:23:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven Sullivan Subject: "Exposure"; Brufordiana In addition to the Friupp/Sylvain version, didn't Peter Gabriel perform this track on one of his tours as well? Re the summary of Bruford's early post-KC work: the Bruford-Genesis 'It/Watcher of the skies' is of course no longer limited to the Virgin UK CD release, since that CD's tracklist was adopted as the 'Definitive Edition' of Three Sides Live, and is now the only one readily available. -S. Suri sataki! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 08:18:59 +0900 From: "John Boudreau" Subject: Lone Rhino LP Greetings , Anybody interested in a NM copy of Adrian's " Lone Rhino " ? John ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 22:54:54 -0400 From: tpayne at iglou dot com Subject: re:BB in Gong In ET #586, Clive Backham says that "...Holdsworth is on Gaseuze, Expresso II, and Time is the Key". I just checked my copy of Expresso (1), and BB is not on it either. Holdsworth, however, is all over it and wrote half of it. Thomas Payne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 23:30:23 +0100 From: umrk at home dot com Subject: DGM and Credit This actually makes me wish that the DGM site took credit cards, but alas I digress. . .) Actually, it does. I used mine. You only need to have access to a fax machine. JZ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 10:18:07 -0400 From: tj Subject: Adrian on NPR in Real Audio Adrian did an interesting radio interview on National Public Radio: http://npr.org/programs/anthem/thisweek/1999/990327.html Also Trey has some great P3 notes on his site now. http://www.treygunn.com/ Both fill in some blanks that the dgm site does not. tj ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 15:55:10 +0100 From: "D. Chinn" Subject: Loop guitar in London, part two Further to my posting in ET#586 about Mike Bearpark's Fripp/Frisell-ish loop guitar playing with the Darkroom trio, I hear that they've got a London gig coming up after all. It's on Thursday May 13th at The Clubroom, the upstairs improv music club at The Queens Arms pub in Islington. You can find that at the junction of Penton Street and White Lion Street (both N1), nearest tube stations Angel and Kings Cross. The doors are open at 8.30 and it's a very small room (a capacity of about 45 at a squeeze), so get there early. Apparently Steve Noble (the avant-garde rhythmatist) is playing support. The Clubroom's a good place to catch weekly micro-concerts by various people from the improvised music scene, including John Bissett, Simon Vincent, Richard Sanderson and Simon H. Fell. No Jamie Muir yet, but we live in hope! Dann dchinn at btinternet dot com ------------------------------ Date: 1 May 99 11:36:12 EDT From: James Dusewicz Subject: RE: Bruford(1975-?) Besides appearing on Chris Squires' FISH OUT OF WATER lp, Bruford also appears on many of Steve Howe's solo albums. It seems like he has kept up the connection with Steve. 1) Steve Howe(1975), he takes over most of the drumming duties on this lp. 2) The Steve howe Album(1979), he appears on 2-3 cuts on this one. After ABWH, he also appeared on Howe's much under-rated early ninties solo lps. jim campaigner at usa dot net James Dusewicz ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 13:33:20 -0400 From: Daniel Goodwin Subject: Re: oh boy oh boy oh boy I agree with Gary Johannes......we are all staring at the new KC with a sense of loss and downfall...but as history can tell us, Robert Fripp does not really make any hasty decisions when it comes to the members and music of Crimson. I really think that the new (if not, temporary) Crimson will be equally as enjoyable as the rest (especially if without vocals). I love Adrian's voice and lyrical content far more than Wetton...but it would really be a trip to hear them as an instrumental outfit....but that is why there are Projekts! I also agree with some that Pat Mastellato didn't make or break the Double Trio, and neither did Trey Gunn, however their contributions were respectable. On the other hand, PM is a great drummer and should be respected as such. Trey Gunn (as much of a 'student' of Fripp-ism that he may be), is really a very creative artist, and deserves to be respected as well. Robert Fripp is more than capable of handling the responsibilities of a bandleader, and those who keep dreaming up their fantasies about guys like Vernon Reid (decent-but not quite the guitar ideal to complement Fripp), Les Claypool (overplaying-tasteless), and Terry Bozio (come on...) should really think about their choices and how they work together, not simply because they are their favorites. Also, these posts (KC Dream Lineup) are ridiculously boring to read. Punters we all are if we criticize rather than embrace and anxiously await the newest incarnation of King Crimson......punters indeed! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 14:42:10 PDT From: "eraser head" Subject: Adrian's toys, too late for Marquee, BB in Genesis Been a long time since I posted, but what the heck... >I don't believe that is Zappas' Strat Adrian was playing. The Miami Hendrix Strat is now owned by Dweezil Zappa, I believe. >Two days ago, I received the two '72 CDs with a note saying that the "Live >at the Marquee" CD was out of stock and may never be re-issued. (If anyone >knows about a lurking stash of Marquee CDs, please let me know.) I got lucky. I recieved the 72 CDs first, and wrote into the Guestbook about not getting the Marquee disc. I got it April 13 (my birthday, what a nice gift) :) and then I saw on the site that it was gone, so I must have got one of the very last ones. I was quite glad, too - I adore that version of I Talk To The Wind. For newcomers: Bruford's >drumming with Genesis (all are takes from the 1976 tour) >could be heard on: Cinema Show - on the double live CD >'Seconds Out' (1977) It / Watcher Of The Skies - on the >double live CD 'Three Sides Live' (1982, only available on >the British Virgin release) The 3SL CD remaster has that as well. Tapes from the 76 Genesis tour reveal some very exciting moments - among my favorite live Genesis stuff, and Bill's a big part of that. His personality adds a nice twist to the material. Doug NP Frank Zappa - The Best Band You Never Heard In Your Life ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 19:46:54 EDT From: CohenMark at aol dot com Subject: Toyah CD's This is my first posting to ET. Been reading ET on and off for two years. I'm a major league long time Crimso/Fripp-Head. Anyway...found a import CD at HMV (32nd Street, NYC) the other day, which I've never seen in CD format before...Toyah: Anthem. Sorry they only had one. Toyah CD's in general are pretty hard to find. The one in particular that Fripp-Heads would appreciate is Prostitute, which is long out of print. Prostitute is in my opinion her most interesting album. Track #4: "The Show" is really crimso like! I found Prostitute used along with the out of print Desire and Ophelia's Shadow. Of course, my interest in Toyah is a result of the fact that I think Sunday All Over The World is one of the best things RF has ever done. It is well worth the effort to hunt down these difficult to find CD's. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 23:01:28 -0700 From: rgw0001 at door dot net (weiner, robert) Subject: King Crimson books-Fripp Dairy Does anyone know of any forthcoming King Crimson Books on the horizon? I know about Eric Tamm's book and Tony Levin's recent book. Does anyone else think that there should be a book of the collected online and liner note writings of Mr. Fripp published in book form? Not everyone is comfortable reading off the Internet. I personally would love to see Fripp's writings in book form. I am sure many on this list would also. Could someone suggest to him the possibility of putting all this material into book form? Thanks, Rob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 10:28:04 +0000 From: Denis Rodier Subject: Re: Zappa Hendrix strat > And another friend told me that the burnt and thrashed > Stratocaster Belew played in the "Discipline" tour was the > restored Hendrix guitar that Zappa had on for a Guitar > Player magazine cover. Dweezil Zappa is the proud owner of the Hendrix strat. Frank gave it to him years ago. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 14:54:47 -0400 From: Manuel Fernandez Subject: Re Mr. Belew & His Toys >>And another friend told me that the burnt and thrashed >>Stratocaster Belew played in the "Discipline" tour was the >>restored Hendrix guitar that Zappa had on for a Guitar >>Player magazine cover. > >I don't believe that is Zappas' Strat Adrian was playing. >Adrian is also the possessor of an old beat up Strat (see >the cover of "Lone Rhino") I think he retired it prior to >doing the Twang Bar King album/tour (I saw the show in San >Francisco, and he was playing the Roland guitar synth with >the "Twang Bar" cover motif paintjob) I also think it wasn't Hendrix's burnt strat. It's unlikely that Zappa would have given it away to Adrian, unless it was a loaner for that very occasion. Those of you who have been regulars of the guitar press might recall an ad for Zoom (I think) with Dweezil Zappa holding the Hendrix Strat about two years ago. I don't know how close Adrian might remain to the Zappas, but that guitar is most cherished by them. Just my view from the basement. Manuel. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 13:57:01 -0500 From: "Sarcastro the Sardonic" Subject: recent purchases: Cheerfully Insane Frippster Okay, I've been lurking way too long and I finally have all the studio albums of KC plus a few compilations and live stuff. I also got "The Cheerful Insanity of Giles, Giles and Fripp" which has some pleasant but generally inoffensive stuff. Is this album known as a requirement of KC fans??????? If so, what is the general consensus??????????? Benjamin Adler "I will light the way for us to find ORDER of A NEW KIND. JOIN US ON THE STAY, THE ROAD IS MINE!" Queensryche: "NeueRegel" _____________________________________________ Get your free personalized email address at http://www.MyOwnEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 13:25:46 -0700 From: Jason George Subject: Progfest '99 Anyone? Progfest '99 is happening May 28-30 in San Francisco, and I'm driving down from Victoria, B.C., Canada. Anyone in the Northwest (Washington or B.C.??) need a ride or interested in tagging along? lots of stuff of interest to Crim fans, I think: Gong, Magma and Brand X are playing. Anyone interested please let me know soon. I plan on bringing along a stack of KC tapes to make the drive pass quicker. :) Jason jgeorge at home dot net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 21:47:31 -0700 From: "Robert Miyares" Subject: Exposure Live! Regarding G. E. Anderson's question about live performances from the album Exposure, I was at a Hall & Oates concert at Avery Fisher Hall in N.Y. back in 1978 (I think) and Robert Fripp came out for an encore. They performed a maginificent version of You Burn Me Up I'm A Cigarette--followed by a wild solo on an H&O song called No Brain, No Pain. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 17:12:39 +0100 From: "Mark Graham" Subject: Paganini, Barrios and Fripp - what a couple we three are! Greetings, I offer three MIDI files to compare and contrast. 1.. Moto Perpetuo by Niccolo Paganini http://www.satoripaint.com/Gallery/Music/paganini.mid b.. Allegro from La Catedral by Augustin Barrios www.satoripaint.com/Gallery/Music/Barrios.mid c.. Moto Perpetuo from Fracture by Robert Fripp http://www.satoripaint.com/Gallery/Music/Fracture.mid I have used the same tempo (126 bpm) and voice (nylon string guitar) for each and each is undecorated by effect or expression. I wonder whether ETers would agree with me that this reduction and conjunction is interesting. Regards, Mark Graham. BTW my daughter (aged 8) says Fracture makes her ears curdle. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 11:52:58 +0100 From: "mark williamson" Subject: REVIEW: P1 Live at the Jazz Cafe Well I too couldn't wait and ordered the import of this. A note to those at DGM - please hurry up the release schedule. Mr Fripp keeps complaining about those looking backwards at KC and tantalising us with talk of the projects yet we don't get to hear them..... I suspect when the history of the new (1999 - 2000) KC is reviewed P1 will be seen as the missing link (albeit not exactly missing). Despite the brilliance of Bruford and Levin the acoustic drums sound a little out of context. Levin and Gunn provide a fair amount of percussive sounds which I suspect would be better complemented with the harshness of the v-drums. The music has definite echos in earlier incarntations of KC and I get the impression that Gunn hasn't really found his feet at this stage of the projeckts (somthing that the gig reviews point to as well) The music roars and soars. The most interesting parts are where its obvious the musicians are sounding each other out seeing how far they can push things. There is also an integration of soundscaping with the music that I haven't heard work this well before (of course I've never seen KC or any of the projeckts live). The confidence and poise of the music is incredible - with any lesser musicians you would simply not believe that this was improvised. The Crimson King has always stalked those places on the map marked "here be monsters" and this record is a wonderful first installment of a diary of a journey far into the wildest of those places. Please please get more projeckt installments out.... cheers mark PS. If KC hasn't abandoned songs altogether it would be interesting to hear a word based projeckt. I guess that it would have to procede in a bowie style "box full of song fragments" manner. Or perhaps Mr Belew could simply program stacks of words into PM's drum kit.... ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #587 ********************************