Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #585 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 585 Thursday, 22 April 1999 Today's Topics: NEWS: CC #4 Track Listing NEWS: a few words from the FAQmaster NEWS: New ETers' Classified Ads page Bruford 1974-76 Belew, Levin & Traum Another encounter bites the dust Mellotron Tapes KC and the Toronto Maple Leafs Eb's Finer Points What is up with Adrian...? Final Word on Dream Line-Up Cirkus/Mexico City penultimate KC Disturbing the Flow CC#4 Tracks Help With Wetton? Dinosaur Transcription Reply USA Gifting. murkie and Greg and Me Re: BB in Gong/[snip]/UK >Dream lineups a bit much< Matte Kudawho? New KC Material FS: Bruford transcriptions book Hmmmmm? Dream Lineup Asbury Park ET: Title of a song (?) ColleKCtor's Club: Meta-FraKCtals!!! (Too late?) Walter Steading ha-ha one more little thing... Response to "Title of a Song" frizzbox? Re: title of a song Gum? Fripp a Resident? KC and ELP full score songbooks for sale! humor/life/sales!! Circus cover TGD on Ebay 21st Century Daevid Allen Bruford was in Gong Nov '74 GIG REVIEW: Ten Seconds in San Francisco ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.5b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 03:34:22 EDT From: DanKirkd at aol dot com Subject: NEWS: CC #4 Track Listing An inside informer (Hugh - also known as The Fierce) has leaked to me the track listing for the upcoming Collectors' Club release: King Crimson Cap D'Agde, August 26th, 1982 1. Waiting Man 2. Thela Hun Ginjeet 3. Matte Kudasai 4. The Sheltering Sky 5. Neil And Jack And Me 6. Elephant Talk Bonus tracks: (Frejus, August 27th, 1982) 7. Indiscipline 8. Heartbeat 9. Larks' Tongues In Aspic Part II Again, KC on Broadway, NYC 1995 will be CC #5, in June/July. Cheers, Dan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 07:50:41 -0600 From: "Steven Sthole" Subject: NEWS: a few words from the FAQmaster 1). I'd like to aplogize to anyone who tried to access the ET FAQ from April 11 through April 14. A hard-drive crash at Rocky Mountain Internet casued an inordinate amount of down time. Again, my apologies. 2). This Saturday (April 17th) I'm headed for Hawaii for a long-overdue vacation. I'll put a note about my absence in the header of the FAQ as a reminder. The FAQ will continue with weekly updates again some time after May 5th. 3). It's been a little over 6 months now since I took over the FAQ's maintenance. We're up to 91 questions now (hopefully most of them are worthwhile), and candidates for FAQ fodder continue to come my way. I'd like to thank all of those ET readers who have e-mailed me with help and suggestions. I'd also like to humbly ask all persons new to ET to browse the FAQ before they post. I know it's tempting to blurt out "What does 'Thela Hun Ginjeet' mean?", but a little more reading at ET web may answer your question a lot more quickly than a post made in haste. Thanks everyone, and Aloha! -sws * Steven W. Sthole * COIN Y2K * Colorado Department of Human Services * Steven dot Sthole at state dot co dot us * home : sws at rmi dot net ************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 00:18:54 EDT From: DanKirkd at aol dot com Subject: NEWS: New ETers' Classified Ads page I have added a new page to ET Web that ETers can use as a classfied ads posting board. This has been something many of you have been asking for for a long time. I am using Bravenet Web's Classified Ads service, and so the top of the page will have a banner ad that is out of our control. Personally I don't really like the fact we have the banner ad, but then again the service is free and the effort to create and maintain the page is minimal for me, and that's a good thing. So feel free to use this page in the spirit that it is being provided and please keep all postings in good taste. If you have any questions send me an email. Dan ET Web ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 17:04:41 PDT From: "Tom Adams" Subject: Bruford 1974-76 Someone out there must know the activities of Billy B. after the recording of Red. I personally think his drumming had reached a superb high on the Red album, and find that a lot of his session work that followed is in the same vein. I have put together the best I can make of his sessions (chronologically) and was hoping for any input as far as exact recording dates or any mistakes or insight. Here's my guess: Gong - 1974 (November?) Flash Fearless - 1974 (December?) Roy Harper & Trigger - 1975 (March? - July?) Annette Peacock - 1975 Peter & The Wolf - 1975 Steve Howe - 1975 Chris Squire - 1975 National Health - 1975 & 1976 (Oct. 75 & Feb.-Sep. 76) John Wetton - 1976 (February?) Genesis - 1976 Absolute Elsewhere - 1976 Pavlov's Dog - 1976 I have read that he also did some commercial jingles for Coca-Cola during this time, but have no idea when exactly. Also, I am looking for the Absolute Elsewhere LP (or any format) as well as the Annette Peacock LP "Been Caught In The Streets Too Long" (any format). If anyone can help with the list or my search for the above albums it would be greatly appreciated!! Thanks!! Jason Adams ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:11:13 -0400 From: "Peter.K.Geddes" Subject: Belew, Levin & Traum I don't know if anyone has posted about this yet, but Adrian Belew and Tony Levin guest on the new Artie Traum album. Anybody want to offer any reviews? I haven't heard it (or anything about it) yet. Peter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:47:58 +0100 From: chriss at glass dot co dot uk Subject: Another encounter bites the dust Robert Fripp is more than clear about his attitude to unwanted fan pestilence; it is worrying that he seems to be suggesting that it will be a major contributory factor in his ceasing to play in public. Sadly his celebrity, wanted or otherwise, would be a hard thing to lose at this stage. My wife's helpful comment, that 'those that wear their clever trousers on their sleeve are bound to be stared at' led me to think that: The solution would have been for Robert Fripp to adopt a 'larger-than-life' stage name - I suggest 'Bob Spangles' - and to invent a catch-phrase, preferably meaningless, to go with the name: 'Like Woah!' springs to mind. Apart from reducing the level of interest in anything he might say, since we would already know it, it would mean that Robert Fripp could pass among a crowd, safely in the shell of Bob Spangles and unmolested by grabby fans. Requests of the photograph/autograph/justwantedtosaythankyou variety could be greeted with 'Like Woah!' to the delight of the crowd while the Fripp inside could observe at some degree of leisure, like a bird-watcher in a hide. Now it's too late for Fripp to adopt this cunning plan, I offer it to any who feel the need to go about in public unrecognised. Perhaps someone else can come up with a solution that would enable music to come via RF to the greater public without leaving RF feeling like he's gone two reels with van Damme. The alternative is to miss all the sounds yet unheard, and that seems a very high price for an autograph or a picture. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 12:05:12 GMT From: crimson at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk (Mike Dickson) Subject: Mellotron Tapes Michel Champagne wrote... > 3) How even the most wayward mellotron could result in an > entire parking lot being "submerged in miles of tape" > makes no sense to me. As I appreciate it, in a > mellotron, the tape used consists of 15-inch (1+7/8 ips * > 8 seconds = 15 inches) strips that are dragged across > stationary playback heads and then snapped bacy to the > starting position; there are no reels (and the amount of > tape implied) involved. Any true authorities out there > wish to confirm/deny? In a Mellotron Mk II there are 70 tapes, each having an eight second playing time spread over six stations, so the total length of tape in a Mk II is 1.875 * 8 * 6 * 70 = 6300 inches or 525 feet Maybe not enough to cover a whole parking lot, but quite an impressive mess nonetheless. :-) Mike Dickson : Mellotron M400 #996 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 09:46:42 -0400 From: "Andrew Prowse" Subject: KC and the Toronto Maple Leafs Hi All, While listening to the Toronto Maple Leafs game on the radio (CHOG 640 AM) last night, I am pleased to say the the intros used for breaks and announcers were from Brian Eno and King Crimson, specifically Thela Hun Jingeet (or is it Ginjeet? I cant remember) and Discipline. Later. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:02:50 EDT From: Goodcraker at aol dot com Subject: Eb's Finer Points Good point Eb. I know this is probably a post that should be more directly aimed at Ebs private mailbox, but he is right about ET. Not that I have added the finest writing, but jeez.....set lists, line-ups and trivia...well it does get kinda trivial. Hey Eb...stick around. Yours is usually the more clever posts on DAS NEWSLETTER... Back to the weeds.... T Murphy/Chicago "That'll learn him to squeeze my tomater."- Lisa Simpson ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 11:34:06 -0400 From: Jeffrey Mewbourn Subject: What is up with Adrian...? You'd think a guy like Adrian Belew, a major player in his own right, member of one of the key progressive rock acts in history, studio guy extraordinaire, would be easily accessible in music stores. I don't know...it may be the DC area, but I have searched no less than five retail music shops and many used cd shops and I still come up snake eyes on "Salad Days." I'm looking at Tower this weekend, but after that....I'm out of options (what really gets me is that you can't even mail order it from Thirsty Ear...and why DGM isn't selling it I have no idea). jeff ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 11:44:29 -0500 From: djdowling at earthlink dot net Subject: Final Word on Dream Line-Up My pick for ultimate KC Line-Up: Fripp Belew Gunn Mastellotto Oh, wait a minute...has somebody else thought of this??? [ This thread is now officially dead -- Toby ] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 09:28:16 -0700 From: "Elston" Subject: Cirkus/Mexico City I'm wondering if the abundance of songs from the 1996 Mexico City concert included in Cirkus is a signal that the K.C. in Mexico City project is dead, temporarily derailed or now intended for limited release in the Collectors Club, joining K.C. on Broadway. It's hard to imagine a major label releasing the same seven tracks on two different CDs in a short period of time. Most fans don't mind when a couple of songs available elsewhere are included in such a compilation, but seven of them seems extreme, and brings up the question whether a Mexico City album would seem redundant or may have been dropped altogether. Certainly, outstanding versions of some of these songs must have been recorded at different venues during Crimson's 1995-96 excursions. Casey Elston ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:31:31 -0700 From: "Flint, Michael" Subject: penultimate KC robert fripp & adrian belew - lead rainsticks trey gunn - touch rainstick pat mastelotto - rhythm rainstick can't wait to hear "frame by frame" with that line-up... yours in an utter waste of time, michael flint ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 19:17:46 +0100 From: "Brian Thomson, London UK" Subject: Disturbing the Flow [ Although this is a dead thread, and I have refused several recent posts on this, the following post I thought was interesting -- Toby ] I don't believe it. After all the discussion about this on ET and the DGM Guestbook over the YEARS, Robert Fripp still has tales of pre-concert harassment to report. The least I can hope for is that those involved could claim ignorance of these discussions at the time they violated Fripp's personal space. "Wait a minute," do I hear someone saying? "If Fripp wants mental privacy, why does he go out in public?" The alternative, staying locked up in a hotel room while on tour, has already been noted. Besides, I don't hear him _expecting_ or _demanding_ privacy, but _requesting_ it without the use of too many swearwords. There's a difference. "He's just overreacting, or isn't mentally tough enough if he lets 'little' things like this bother him!" Would you go to a boxing fight, and barge into Mike Tyson's dressing room to ask for an autograph? Besides the risk of permanent physical disability, you might say "no, that would spoil his concentration," and you'd be right. When the boxer approaches the ring, does he even look at a single screaming audience member? - In the book "Emotional Intelligence", author Daniel Goldman quotes from a 1975 paper in the Journal of Humanistic Psychology, on the topic of "flow". Athletes might call this "the Zone", and a composer (unnamed) describes it thus: "You yourself are in an ecstatic state to such a point that you feel as though you almost don't exist. I've experienced this time and again. My hand seems devoid of myself, and I have nothing to do with what's happening. I just sit there watching in a state of awe and wonderment. And (music) just flows out by itself." Sounds to me much like the state Fripp has described on several occasions as "Music leaning over and taking us into its confidence". The state that makes all the years of hard labour worthwhile. "A state of self-forgetfulness, the opposite of rumination and worry... although people perform at their peak while in flow, they are unconcerned with how they are doing, with thoughts of success or failure - the sheer pleasure of the act itself is what motivates them." This is "flow", and you have to work at it. "A highly concentrated state is the essence of flow. There seems to be a feedback loop at the gateway to this zone: it can require considerable effort to get calm and focused enough to begin the task - this first step takes some discipline." The results are something I've seen personally at King Crimson and Allan Holdsworth gigs, among others. "Watching someone in flow gives the impression that the difficult is easy; peak performance appears natural and ordinary." The book also has much to say on the concept of "empathy" - the natural ability to read others' emotions up to a point and act (or not) accordingly. For example, if someone is listening to good music, do you think he or she wants to hear YOUR voice? - My point is this: this need for personal space at such times is REAL. He's not making all this up. You don't have to be a sycophantic fan or a "Fripp apologist" to get this. If you have any interest is witnessing music at its most powerful, even if you don't get it all yourself immediately, BACK OFF. You may be in a similar situation some day. Putting it so bluntly and forcibly might not be Fripp's way, but it is mine, so there. Perhaps Mr. Fripp's understated Englishness is confusing matters - would you rather he sounded like Bruce Willis' character in the "Die Hard" series? "How can the same shit happen to the same guy so many times?" Brian Thomson, London UK bnt at email dot com / bnt at ibm dot net PS: John Paul Jones joins DGM! This is a Good Thing for all concerned! Major kudos, dudes! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 12:38:54 PDT From: "Nomad Stem" Subject: CC#4 Tracks The track listing for the next DGM Club release is now available on the DGM Web Club page, and there will be 3 tracks from the Frejus show. A review at ET Web of the Noise video lists three tracks that were played but were not on the video: Thela Hun Ginjeet, Red, Elephant Talk. Unfortunately, none of these are going to be on this release. I wonder why? Nomad ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 18:02:20 -0400 From: Dave Gallant Subject: Help With Wetton? I'm in dire need of any John Wetton photos with Crimson from the early 1970s. They are to be used in my upcoming biography of Wetton's band Asia, to be titled 'The Heat Goes On'. If you have photos that YOU have taken and are able to give permission for reproduction, please e-mail me. Unfortunately, due to time constraints - scans will have to suffice. Credit will be given for any photos used, and complimentary copies of the book will be made available if we are able to use a number of your photos. Thanks! Dave Gallant dave at clo dot com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:15:42 EDT From: LP1977 at aol dot com Subject: Dinosaur Transcription Hey ETers, The middle section of Dinosaur is not transcribed on the ET site, however, it can be heard loud and clear acoustically on Belew's "Salad Days". Its pretty easy to pick out. Just thought I'd let you know. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 21:08:30 -0400 From: "RayRaupersJr." Subject: Reply USA Gifting. I wanted to publicly thank David Lee Ressel for his reply regarding the USA gifting. Interesting translation, interpretation, perception and paradigm. Thank you for sharing. I may be imperfect yet reasonable. I would even steal food before my family went hungry. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 21:34:09 -0400 From: Steve Smith Subject: murkie and Greg and Me > From: murkie > Subject: Cover of Neil and Jack and Me > > hey. thought i'd share this with y'all. > > http://www.middlebury.edu/~mchriste/audio.html Thanks for doing so. Quite enjoyed it. Pretty faithful to the original in most ways, but skewed enough to make it interesting. Definitely my favorite track from that version of the band. The original music is very nice as well. Y'all go check it out now. > and can anyone confirm or deny the rumor that Greg Lake is > leaving King Crimson. will they be able to go on? LOL... Yes, Elvis has left the building... Steve Smith ssmith36 at sprynet dot com NP - murkie, "mood #37" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:00:09 -0700 From: "Stephen L Arnold" Subject: Re: BB in Gong/[snip]/UK On 15 Apr 99, "Michel Champagne" had this to say with < lurk mode off >: > 2) Bill Bruford played with Gong in 1975 (after Allen's > departure in 1974) as a _replacement_ for Pierre Moerlen; > another replacement was (ex- Nice + Refugee drummer) > Brian Davison. Gong did not become "Pierre Moerlen's > Gong" until 1979, with the release of the LP "Downwind." Which recordings is BB on? I thought "Pierre Moerlen's Gong" included the Espresso releases the Holdsworth, etc. Actually, the only one I have that actually *says* "Pierre Moerlen's Gong" is the Live one (I think it has Mick Taylor - anyone confirm?) [snip] > 6) UK fell apart for a number of reasons. One, Billy-B > wanted to play jazzier stuff (heard that one before?) and > had his first solo LP "Feels Good to Me", in which he was > able to do just that (with Allan Holdsworth, among others), With Jeff Berlin and Dave Stewart on the above and "One of A Kind", and John Clark replacing Holdsworth on "Gradually Going Tornado". > charting at the same time as the first UK LP. Secondly, on > a related note, the band soon split into two factions. BB+AH > (jazz) vs. Wetton/Jobson (rock). I recall reading an > interview with Wetton around 1979 wherein he was quoted as > saying something along the lines that he rememberd Bruford > from their days together in KC as "one of the best rock > drummers around" and recruited him for UK for this reason > but, once the group came together, he realized the Bruford > had "moved way out in left field" (or something similar) in > the intervening years. Left field I can buy, but not the jazz part. The solo Bruford stuff with the first lineup above is some serious heavy duty ju-ju, but I wouldn't call it jazz (in spite of all the improv). > I don't think Steve Howe would have helped the situation, > though. In fact, it would probably have been worse. > Holdsworth and BB were a perfect musical foils to Wetton and > Jobson, and some very exciting music came out of this > conflict. Asia, OTOH, was little more than a money-making > proposition, IMHO. I agree totally. UK good, Asia bad. [snip] > Now, listening to KC, RF, the ProjeKcts, etc., I feel young > again! I don't feel all that young (not after 3 kids who aren't even teenagers yet:) but it sure makes me feel good. And it makes me want to go jam; it's just not easy finding the right people to jam that sort of stuff. And why don't more people recognize the creative energy that goes into the KC (and some other) stuff? Especially when there's so much crap out there? I've never been able to answer that one (but I *have* managed to turn my wife into a true believer) :-o < I have lurk mode too > ************************************************************* Steve Arnold http://www.rain.org/~sarnold Linux: It's not just for nerds anymore... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 04:43:00 +0000 From: lordmuck56 at att dot net Subject: >Dream lineups a bit much< Greetings ET folks: Only one comment to make and it is more of an observation than anything else. Can we add the Dream Lineup to the dead thread file? It is really quite pointless when you consider the realities of the issue. Robert Fripp is the only person with both capacity and position to select members of King Crimson. No offense please, but I cannot imagine folks from "Tool" and "Primus" in any band that dared to call itself King Crimson. Regards, Doug ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 03:33:11 -0500 From: "Grant Colburn" Subject: Matte Kudawho? Enoboy ranted as follows in ET#580: > What would most of us rather listen to? The classic > muscular Vroom or the wimpy Walking on Air? For that > matter, Indiscipline or Matte Kudesi. Larks' Tongue III> or People? I just need to mention this cuz it seems to be not noticed. To anyone who has heard the song "North Star" off of Fripp's Exposure album, its completely obvious who was the primary writer of Matte Kudasai. FRIPP was! I'm surprised that no one has mentioned (that I've seen) the striking similarity between these two songs. They are practically the same music with a different melody and lyrics. So I guess my point is that even if Adrian Belew wasn't in the band there would still be lighter moments in King Crimson. My guess is that Fripp would say that he just thinks Adrian is a better singer/songwriter writer than he is. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:41:28 -0400 From: "Gordon Emory Anderson" Subject: New KC Material Hey-- Does anyone know if any of Robert Fripp's Exposure album has been performed live? Some of those tunes (as I remember, I only owned the vinyl years ago) would be appropriate for an "all-new" band, most notably Breathless. In addition, no one seems to mention Requiem as an interesting tune, nor have I ever heard of it being performed. -Emory ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 10:35:43 -0400 From: Neil_Jones at tvo dot org (Neil Jones) Subject: FS: Bruford transcriptions book For sale: BILL BRUFORD: WHEN IN DOUBT, ROLL! Modern Drummer Publications, Inc., 1988. 9" x 12", 136 pages, with photographs. Condition: good (tiny corner of back cover torn off). Transcriptions of Bruford's greatest performances, with Bill's personal commentary and suggested exercises. Includes: Heart of the Sunrise; Fracture*; Beelzebub; In the Dead of Night; Presto, Vivace; Alaska/Time to Kill; Hell's Bells; One of a Kind, Part II; Fainting in Coils; The Sliding Floor; Discipline*; Frame By Frame*; Industry*; Flags; Infradig; Impromptu, Too!; The Drum Also Waltzes; and Split Seconds. (*denotes a King Crimson tune.) Back cover blurb: "This book is an attempt to describe how one drummer has managed to survive all the lunacy that goes with a professional musician's life, and still retain the desire to sit at the drumset and play. --Bill Bruford" $15 (U.S.), plus postage (about $2). If you're in Canada, it's yours for $22 (Canadian), postage included. If interested, please drop me a line. Cheers, Neil_Jones at tvo dot org ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 16:58:01 -0500 From: "Grant Colburn" Subject: Hmmmmm? Hey, Why exactly WAS that dead thread post posted? Just to see if Fripp would bite upon the bile again? [ No, it just slipped through my fingers by mistake. -- Toby ] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 12:46:53 +0700 From: "Dave Lumenta" Subject: Dream Lineup OK Just for the fun A very organic multicultural percussion oriented KC: Akira Kurosawa / musical director Brian Eno/ sound design Trilok Gurtu / percussion Jamie Muir/ allsorts Nana Vasconcelos/ voice & berimbau Suroyo Arobingu/ a very unknown Indonesian poet L Shankar/ violin (so where's Robert Fripp ? This time this 'entity called King Crimson' came out through other human receivers....Fripp was again cleaning up the mess in front of the housedoor) Still in my dream: this KC edition should last only for one tour, where they would only perform at villages throughout the Pacific islands, South East Asian and West African Nations. Western nations at the time will be busy indulging in 'serious art', Balkan wars, currency unifications and scandals.... Again: just for the fun. But seriously, I would like to see KC to be part of this side of the world (it should be 'global mobile' after all, shouldn't it ? or is it the time to put the word 'global' aside from the discourse of 'marketing') Dave Lumenta Celebes Island, South East Asia ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 09:35:56 -0600 From: Bill Jacobson Subject: Asbury Park In ET 583 Carlos Najar asked: >1. What kind of effect did Fripp use on "Asbury Park"? It sounds like >some kind of synthesizer - and how does he get such a LONG sustain? >2. ... What is the effect that Belew uses on the "Three of a Perfect >Pair - Live in >Japan" video, which is setup on a stand, and Belew >manipulates with his hand ...? Fripp's setup at the time was a fuzz box, a wah wah pedal, a volume pedal, a Hi-Watt amplifier and a Gibson Les Paul guitar. Fripp's tone and sustain are a result of all of these factors. In "Asbury Park" everything was being used. His amplifier was set to a pretty heavy crunch distortion level (think of "Larks Tongues in Aspic II"). Combined with the fuzz, there is a very high amount of compression, limiting and distortion going on, similar to the way a Mesa-Boogie amp works. You can hear the wah being used in the tune; being a resonant filter, it increases the vibration of the strings. The volume of the amp is at feedback level with the fuzz and wah on, and additionally, Les Pauls are renowned for their sustain. You can hear Fripp applying some light vibrato and is in excellent control of just being out of feedback range, much like Zappa used to when he soloed. What is so amazing to me is not Fripp's tone nor his sustain, but that he can pick so cleanly, so quickly, with so much distortion. Which brings me to the Fripp/Belew/Zappa connection -- a friend saw Zappa at the "Three of a Perfect Pair" Greek Theatre, Los Angeles show. And another friend told me that the burnt and thrashed Stratocaster Belew played in the "Discipline" tour was the restored Hendrix guitar that Zappa had on for a Guitar Player magazine cover. As for Belew's effect on a stand, I don't own the video, but it might be one of the old Roland Paraphonic Guitar Synthesizers. Bill JaKcobson " ... When life is overwhelmingly hard to the point of hopelessness, sometimes it's just enough to know there are people out there in the same boat, who we may not even know, giving this their best shot. Then, we draw a deep breath, look upwards & shout: 'Thank you for this gift of life!' And then, life begins again. And then, life does begin again." Robert Fripp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 04:07:08 -0600 From: "Luna Negra S.C." Subject: ET: Title of a song (?) Hi: > From: luca capogna > Subject: title of a song. > I hope this is not too out of context for this list. Years > ago I heard a song whose refrain contained the words "we are > afraid to call it love, let's call it swimming..." Probably, it's Peter Gabriel's "I go Swimming". By the way, I don't think there's a studio recoirding of this song (originally included on the double album "PG LIVE"). I don't have this cd in hand so I can't be sure about the lyrics. Juan Jose Salas R. LUNA NEGRA, S.C. lunanegr at sjr dot podernet dot com dot mx Support The Bassoonist Club! (For Lindsay) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 23:38:12 PDT From: "Greg M" Subject: ColleKCtor's Club: Meta-FraKCtals!!! (Too late?) ...and out from the closet: (coff, coff, pat, pat, coff) YOW! Turn down the lights....! Well, RF asked for it, sooooo.... how 'bout some more CC-oriented feedback?! I originally signed up mainly for the ProjeKCt-related releases, ......and we come to find that (yes, in order) #5 will be KC '97 (which is more than fine with me!) The 64K$ question for me though is: When will the C.C. be blessed with Proj. releases?!?! Of course, NOW I'm saying this and meanwhile... 1. There's a box set with a complete representation of the (publicly made) Ps looming around the corner. 2. There's a "best of" P single CD _also_ rounding the corner. 3. yet more R&D? e.g. P 0.5 aka "Zero" (overheard on tour somewhere: Q: What group do you play in? A: Nothing... really... ) AND the fact that a "P5" was even suggested begs the following IMNSHO: Considering that things are rolling along rather nicely, and the dice have appeared to be cast. (Better "not to wait until next year"...) Idea #1: Ideally, it would've been nice if there was something along the lines of an alternative box set i.e. one CD for each of the 4 Ps distinctly different from what's coming. Will the box set actually end up rendering this early CC purpose moot? I hope not, so here's yet a few more ideas... Idea #2: Although it hasn't happened with other material, the opposite extreme would be have the CC release a compilation ("best of") completely different from the one coming for the stores. I think I'm in the majority when I say that I'd prefer complete (CD-length) reps of whatever Ps the CC might release. In other words... Idea #3: More feasible than Idea #1; more desirable (for fans) than #2: release 2 or 3 single CDs of different ProjeKCts, or.... Idea #3a: Release just _one_ 2 CD-length recording of an entire concert (with all the frills) of _one_ ProjeKCt. but THEN what about these!?: Meta-FraKCtals: M.F. #1: The club could release P 0.5. What's the likelihood that _this_ would be taken on the road NOW (if it ever would've been)? Exactly. ...and what would sales be in stores? Exactly. ...so let the CC do it! M.F. #2: Do a S.G.S.-type of release using nothing but P-related material (both released and unreleased.) You could even make a soundscape out of it ala Neil Young's _Arc_!!! (Like Idea #2 above but without discrete editing and mixing that normally goes with a "best of" release.) (Of course, those of you with Deja V. can already come up with M.F.s but with older material. I think the ProjeKCts provide a way of breaking even MORE rules...) Runs back to lurker mode while scrambing for those Kevlar(R) pants! G-man ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 12:24:20 +0100 From: "Carol Cherriman" Subject: Walter Steading I have a copy of a single on the Rough Trade label of a chap called Walter Steading doing his rather inspired version of Elvis' Hound Dog. It has Bob Fripp on guitar, can anybody give me any info on Walter. Please contact Graham Goldwater ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 07:58:17 -0400 From: "TonyCore" Subject: ha-ha one more little thing... Hello All, Just a sentence to let you know that I, DGM Recording Artist and Trey Gunn Band member Tony Geballe, have returned to the NYC theater world after an absence of a year and a quarter, designing sound and writing a silly faux Irish diddle for the NYU Tisch School of Drama mainstage production of "Spreading the News," a rustic but hardy Irish comedy about the dangers of gossip by the Lady Isabella Augusta Persse Gregory that takes place around the turn of the (last) century, directed by the inimitable Karin Coonrod, with whom I have been working since 1993 - perhaps a trifle but a very good little show running just one hour; opening April 21 and closing May 1, information and reservations at (212) 998-1860. Tony ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 11:00:54 -0500 From: "Linda C. Tellez" Subject: Response to "Title of a Song" The name of the song in question is "Swimming." The group is called Martha and the Muffins. The song was the lead track on an 80's gem called "This is the Ice Age" - an album unfortunately never reissued on CD; I know because I've looked. Virgin released a compilation CD whose name escapes me; however, only two songs from this album are present. Unhappily, neither is "Swimming." This is a fab little album, sort of a pop Tripp and Eno affair. The production is by a young Daniel Lanois, whose sister Jocelyn played bass for the band. The album is a great example of melding Enoesque atmospherics with innocent pop, a path trailblazed by Fripp on Exposure in 1979. "This is the Ice Age" was less agressive than Fripp but no less engaging, and definitely worth a spin if you can find it. It is the last piece of vinyl in my collection. I believe that this Canadian band still exists under it's new moniker M&M, but I am not familiar with their present sound. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 14:57:47 EDT From: Eno1one at aol dot com Subject: frizzbox? Before synths and rack systems there were reverb, volume, wahwah pedals, etc. Does anyone know the set up Robert Fripp used between 71-75? Thanks, M ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 20:46:19 PDT From: "Michel Champagne" Subject: Re: title of a song Luca Capogna asks: >. . . I hear a song whose refrain contained thes words "we >are afraid to call it love, lets call it swimming..." >There were also a couple of >very Fripp-like giotar solo >. . . Hopefully I'm not being superfluous, but . . . You are describing the opening cut "Swimming" from the LP _This is the Ice Age_ by Canadian group Martha and the Muffins. It was originally issued in 1981 (my copy is a British Import - Dindisc DID 10); I have no idea if it is even available on CD, but I should find out since my copy is so hopelessly warped as to be unplayable! LP Produced by Daniel Lanois, and he also plays a bit on it as does a "Jocelyne Lanois" - what relation if any I do not know. IMHO, from what I recall, a great album, with lots of pop/non-pop juxtapositions. The Frippisms you refer to may or may not be guitar at all. The credits included "casiotone M10" which was a small (2-3 octave) inexpensive analog keyboard avaiable in the early eighties that, when played through a fuzzbox, could be made to sound strikingly like our favorite soft-spoken British guitarist. As regards M&tM, save for an earlier single produced by Mike Howlett, the is the only entry in their catalog that I own, but would like to know more, if anybody is willing to post me offline. Mike Michel J Champagne Pellerin Milnor Corporation Systems Programmer ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 09:45:54 -0400 From: TJ Mathews Subject: Gum? > I've had the pleasure of seeing Pat Mastelotto play live >here in Austin six times in about two months time, twice >with his band Gum... Would you have any particular methods of how to check out Gum? I searched the net and found nothing. If there is net info then it should be et/web accessible. thanks, tj ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 01:12:29 -0700 From: John Sinks Subject: Fripp a Resident? Superheros have managed to maintain a private life by wearing a costume that disguises their true identity. I've always wondered if this is a tactic that Robert Fripp might use. I know he has toured with Peter Gabriel, playing unseen, behind a screen, billed as "Dusty Rhodes". A band that has been using this technique for years is the Residents. No one really knows who they are as three of them perform with their heads obscured usually by giant eyeballs with top hats, while the fourth's head is hidden inside a giant black scull. Well last night I went and saw them at the Seattle performance of their new show - Wormwood. Imagine my surprise when I noticed that there were not 3 eyeball headed ones, but four! Something's up I though. Even more intriguing was that one of them, dressed in priestly garments, played guitar in a seated position. When he was not playing he sat quietly, his hands resting on his knees. Having seen Fripp perform a number of times, I started to wonder, is it my imagination or could it be Robert Fripp under that eyeball. I mentioned this to my friend and he said he had been thinking the same thing. The playing even sounded Frippian. And I'm not the only one who thinks so. Here's a quote from a review of the April 5th NYC Irving plaza show by Gregg Zion "The Resident guitarist especially put a more up-to-date sheen on the proceedings, producing equal parts Frippertronics and Larry LaLonde type flurries. His playing alone was well-tempered, but sonically powerful enough to give the overall sound a Crimson-like coat of paint."<> I also ran into Bill Rieflin at the show who said a friend of his was playing in the band and had invited him to see the show. For those of you who don't know, Bill has recorded with and is a good friend of Fripp. Could it be that Fripp's announcement that he has concerns to deal with at DGM and will not be Soundscaping or ProjeKcting for the summer, is really a cover up for the fact that he has found a way to tour without fans bugging him? One other interesting detail I noticed. The Bass player for the Residents was playing an Ashbory Base ( a very small little base with rubber band like strings) The only other guy I ever saw play one of these was Tony Levin. Hmmmmm.. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 17:53:21 -0400 From: Karen Elizabeth Stober Subject: KC and ELP full score songbooks for sale! Hi! A treasure comes to us from Japan. Shinko publishers has released FULL SCORE (English lyrics, keyboard, guitar, bass and drums) ELP and King Crimson songbooks. Organ and mellotron parts are included. They are in a conductor's score format. A brief write-up accompanies each song but that is in Japanese. There are no photographs but the full front and back vinyl lp artwork is reproduced on the book's front and back covers. Emerson, Lake & Palmer "Best Of", approx. $19.67 US, 80 pages Tarkus - Eruption Blues Variation from "Pictures At An Exhibition" Promenade from "Pictures At An Exhibition" From The Beginning The Sherif Karn Evil 9 - 1st Impression Part 2 King Crimson - In The Court Of The Crimson King approx. $18.82 US, 72 pages 21st Schizoid Man including Mirrors I Talk To The Wind Epitaph including March For No Reason and Tomorrow And Tomorrow Moon Child The Court Of The Crimson King including The Return Of The Fire Witch and The Dance Of The Puppets Price does not include postage. Email your orders to Lost Horizons http://www.Lost-Horizons.com email: losthor at tcp-ip dot or dot jp Street address is Lost Horizons, KT BLDG. 2F, 3-16-20 Chiyoda, Naka-Ku, Nagoya 460-0012, Japan. Phone, including country code for Japan: 81-52-323-3324, fax: 81-52-323-5366(24 hours) US payment: Visa or Mastercard, US cash in registered letter, international postal money orders. Rest Of World: Visa or Mastercard, US cash in registered letter. NO money orders. I emailed my order on April 8. I received a reply and customer number on April 10. I got the order by airmail today, April 20th. They have a huge selection of songbooks and LPs, CDs, etc. for sale. Postage, handling and prices vary according to the exchange rate and method of payment. They do NOT answer inquiries for track listings. Happy shopping! Karen "Evil 9" Stober (get it???) karen1 at mail dot idt dot net http://idt.net/~karen1/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 15:43:46 -0500 From: Colin Beaumier Subject: humor/life/sales!! Hello crimsos!! It has been a drop in the bucket since writing but, if you recall, I was the young chap who wanted to see King Crimson go to NorthDakota.....HAH! Well after being in Milwaukee for ten years and honing the culinary craft of cooking, fate struck and I got a job as a chef here in Grand Forks......North Dakota What the hell was I thinking......PLEASE don't come here---very closed minded --people didn't see FOGHAT because they were too progressive!! Well I have been placing little Crimsonish treats here in ND: ThraakAttack Lamb Rack (Champagne Mango Chutney/lamb) A curry or two for Tony, Hollendaise (bernaise, maltaise, choron,etc) for Bill Dolphin Safe tuna for Adrian, and French Chocolate (Marquise and ganache--and a tuile or two) for Robert--Not to sure what trey or Pat like or are influenced by but I have not and will not do MEATLOAF......... (But alas, the Mahavishnu crab cakes with blood orange mousseline are a signature appetizer--gotta be the name I guess.......!) But alas I have been accepted to a killer cooking school in NY for October and have decided to pull a joseph Campbell credo and "liquidate" my "treasures" --I have a huge array of videos, cds and vinyl that I would liek to dispence with accordingly--half of the pleasure from these things was actually hunting them down!!--I picked up a vinyl of Earthbound after eating at Charlie Trotter's---so fate does work in combinations---that was an evening of sublime death!!! Very Happy! So....for the list please email privately I have about 30 vids--, 150 cds-30 records/tapes etc.....please aid in my catharsis and help a foreign milwaukeean in North Dakota go to cooking school in NY!! (Registered delivery only, I will pay shipping and if nice, you may get some chocolate covered potato chips....they are famous here.....!!!) Thanks, COlin-- Big load of Fripp, Bruford, Zappa, Yes, pavlov's Dog, New Percussion group of Amsterdam. Moraz, etc..... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 14:36:47 -0500 (CDT) From: flaherty michael w Subject: Circus cover It was interesting to hear the advance reviews of Circus. As a noncollector who already has a great deal of the material, I doubt that I will make the purchase; still waiting for the ProjeKCt box. Just a note on the "mini-LP" design : it's not a new idea (I realize that no one said it was--just a note for the record). Thurston Moore and Niles Cline used the same concept for their beautiful "Pillow Wand" album. (There may, of course, be others.) Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 10:14:07 -0700 From: "Anonymous01 Anon1" Subject: TGD on Ebay Up for auction on Ebay: 'The Great Deceiver' 4CD box set, through April 27 9:04AM PDT. I also have the YesYears 4CD box set, and various other items. Take a look! Thanks, ANON1 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 12:36:12 -0400 From: "Peter.K.Geddes" Subject: 21st Century Daevid Allen Went to a David Allen/Mark Kramer show in Baltimore recently. Allen, of course you know from Gong/New York Gong/etc and Kramer is late of New York Gong and Bongwater. Early in the set, Daevid lit off into a series of rhyming couplets that basically described your average "Prog-rock" fan as we know him today. I don't remember the exact words, but if I can find a copy of them, I will pass them along. Suffuce to say that the person described fit Robert Fripp's description of a stereotypical Crimson fan It was pretty funny. The diatribe ended with "Twenty-first Century Frog Rock Man!" At first I thought the "Frog" part to be a typical Allen malapropism, but then later on he referred to the Pangea Prog festival in California where Gong and Magma will be playing and opined that it was a good bill because "Gong and Magma invented Frog-rock in the 60s!" I realized later that he might also be referring to Gong and Magma's country of origin, France. Gong and Magma are generally considered to be French bands, n'est-ce pas? I know I'm a little slow. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 09:43:48 -0700 (PDT) From: max imu Subject: Bruford was in Gong Nov '74 Isn't this a FAQ or shouldn't it be? "Michel Champagne" claims: >Bill Bruford played with Gong in 1975 (after Allen's departure in 1974) as a replacement >for Pierre Moerlen; but per Daevid and GAS, Bruford toured with Gong in late 1974 for a tour for a few shows in France around November 1974 while Daevid was still in the band. Anil Prasad (per my prompting) asked Bruford about his stint in Gong some years ago in an interview that is up on http://www.innerviews.org. Bruf's response was something like "why are you asking me this? I can't remember when it was -- 1975?" I'm paraphrasing from memory with what I recall him saying but Bill obviously didn't know, remember much or recall much about it (see http://www.innerviews.org/inner/bruford.html). But from asking Daevid and poking around the best I could come up with was that Bruford was there backing Daevid in France in Nov 1974. I've only ever come across one Gong live tape from that era that might include Bill and the quality is so bad you really can't tell. In the early 90's in San Francisco Daevid read a poem of his about Bill, a brief anecdote about Bill reasoning for leaving. In any case, Bruford's stint was Gong was brief and apparently not memorable or archived for audio posterity, just before Daevid left Gong, not after. I used to have Daevid's Bruford poem up with as response to a FAQ on this question on the now defunct Gong site I created in 1993. More than likely there's a copy archived in ET postings from that era. Yup, previously posted to ET Mon, 20 Jun 1994: "Poem To Bill Bruford: `You look quite young, except your hands. You have old hands. ' I look at my hands... They look like I died last Saturday. `I couldn't stay in this band, you all think differently than me, you drive me mad. ha ha ha.' 'I just couldn't do it' he added joyfully. Bloomdido says, hopefully, last angle,`We are a community of hermits' * `I like your playing' he said, gay-ly zooming in on Bloom,`It's binging fantastic!' " ** -By Daevid Allen, as read August '91 at a poetry reading at Small Press TrafficBooks in San Francisco; an event I provoked... * = pronounced with exaggerated french accent ** = it sounded like "binging" but may have been some other word? A search on Gong or Daevid Allen in the ET archives will reveal numerous other postings and references from previous ET issues. - Malcolm Do You Yahoo!? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 16:45:55 -0400 From: "Fisher, Michael (Cahners)" Subject: GIG REVIEW: Ten Seconds in San Francisco On Saturday April 17 1999, I had the privilege of seeing Ten Seconds play at The Boathouse in San Francisco, CA. It was a troubled appearance, and one that the group members may have considered a failure, but I considered it to be a performance with musical merit. The account below is partly a gig review and partly a personal account of the evening's dramatic events. This was Ten Seconds' second live appearance, the first having been held at The Martini Lounge in Hollywood on March 10. The San Francisco performance was lightly attended, with about 25 people present in a space that could hold about 150. I don't know how much the sparse attendance was a result of under-promotion, but aside from ET I didn't hear about the date anywhere else around here. I had arranged with Bill Forth to help haul the band's equipment, and also to record the show to DAT from the audience. Bill told me the load-in was scheduled for 6:30, but by the time I got to the venue at 6:15 the gear had already been unloaded, and the band was relaxing in the restaurant. Shortly after, they adjourned to the performance space for a sound check. John Sinks (of extensive King Crimson and Robert Fripp live sound experience) was on hand to assist with the mix. The result was a much clearer mix than Ten Seconds had at the Martini Lounge gig; in particular, the vocals were able to punch through the mix much more clearly than they did before. (NOTE: Some of the names I'm assigning to these pieces are gleaned from the lyrics, and may not represent the correct titles of the songs.) The group came out blazing with "RealSide," and followed this with a muscular, energetic "Nightwebs." Next came a short fingerstyle fusion piece, which led straight into the dark, churning maelstrom of "No Way To Paradise". This was followed by the most melodic song in the set, the poignant yet powerful "Blind Street" (which had been played as an encore at the earlier gig.) "Blind Street" worked particularly well, with Jeff's bluesy, unadorned, Mick Ronson-style Les Paul providing an excellent textural counterpoint to Bill's more highly processed sound. (Jeff just needed to extend his wonderful melodic solo for another 4 bars...it ended too soon, and there was a gap where there should have been the rest of the solo.) Next, a guitar loop based on parts from Bert Lams' "Asturias" proved somewhat more problematic, never really jelling into the groove the piece seemed to be aiming for. It's likely that by this time Bill's blood sugar was already taking the nosedive that would result in the fireworks that were to come. Next the band launched into "Can't Hold Back The Dawn," but after the first verse Bill removed his guitar and left the stage, walking through the audience to the back of the performance space. The band continued the groove for a half minute or so, then stopped playing, with Jeff asking the question, "Bill, are you alright?" Bill's response was "I don't know what happened, something happened and I started to lose consciousness." Bill then walked over to a chair, sat down and then collapsed, hitting his head as he fell. Minor pandemonium ensued. The promoter asked the audience for a few minutes of patience while the situation was sorted out. Bill revived soon, and drank some orange juice, which seemed to fortify him. After about 15 minutes Bill was ready to take the stage again. Some members of the group wanted to abandon the entire effort, but Bill was determined that they provide some resolution to the set. So the band returned to the stage and played the last song from the originally planned set, a piece appropriately enough called "No Excuses" that talked about not hiding behind unfortunate circumstances as a reason for not carrying out one's obligations. The group *rocked* on this last number...Bill in particular seemed determined to provide a good show, playing this last number with a band-aid on his forehead where he'd hit it when he fell. The end of "No Excuses" segued into the closing section of the Beatles' "She's So Heavy," which was well served by the fat wall of crunchy guitar that these guys put forth. Based on my own experiences as a diabetic, I believe that what Bill experienced was a hypoglycemic episode...his blood sugar level crashed through the floor. I have experienced this phenomenon myself many times...it sneaks up from nowhere. This condition can cause mental disorientation and loss of consciousness, the very symptoms Bill experienced, and the fact that he came back after drinking orange juice suggests that this was a low blood sugar event. After the show, Bill did say that he had eaten very little that day, and I'm sure that by showtime he was running on pure adrenaline. In the aftermath of the show, other band members seemed horrified at the evening's events, convinced that they had embarrassed themselves terribly and asking me to destroy the tape I'd made. Having listened to the tape a number of times, I must disagree with their assessment of the performance; while the show certainly didn't come off as planned, it's evident upon listening that when things worked they worked very well. Jack and Eddie are a formidable rhythm section, propelling Bill and Jeff's retro-vs.-techno guitar pastiche. In this group of players is the makings of a very good band. As the guys left for their motel, there was talk of cancelling Monday's performance in West Hollywood, with Bill insisting that the show should go on. I learned afterwards that the Monday performance was in fact cancelled...which is too bad. And probably an unnecessary precaution as well, since a recurrence of Saturday's experience could easily be prevented by Bill just making sure to eat something before going on stage. ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #585 ********************************