Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #578 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 578 Thursday, 18 March 1999 Today's Topics: Sartori in Tangier DGM CC#4 Example of allusion my semi-annual post a fan in need of logo shirts "larks tongue in aspic" Versions of KC by other bands, cont. ProjeKct Two - Live Groove/ KC in 1999 Question re: Fripp's doing it all over again KC lineup, TL on Leno, we are fortunate.. Guitar Craft articles in Guitar Player Boz activities re: Fripp's doing it all over again, THANK GOD! R'N'R HofF inductions A King Crimson Day My dream Crim Lineup "New" Crimson lineup; UK/Asia; "initiative" among KC members; Request for TABULATURE Disciple Global Music Sampler vol 2 Re: Emerson, Orlando & Palmer A Day Dream/ Playing Silly Games/ Easter 1985? G & M: Supporting players? Would you turn down a chair with KC? Derek Bailey and Jamie Muir RE Skunky Deja Vroom sound new lineup (i.e. get in line to comment on) Live at Bremen -- Club Release 4 Projekct Box, USA ProjeKct One CD KC 2000? Fripp On Peter Gabriel III KC videos? ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.5b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 13:21:30 +0300 From: "Dmitri" Subject: Sartori in Tangier Can You tell me some thing about 'Sartori in Tangier' from 'Beat' album? Thanks, Dmitri ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:37:42 EST From: DanKirkd at aol dot com Subject: DGM CC#4 As those who have received the Bremen CD know, the next Club release will feature a 1982 show at Cap D'Agde in southern France. Some of us, including myself thought this would actually feature the Frejus show. So comments made previously about duplicating what is already released don't apply. As far as I know this material has not been heard since the night it was performed. Cheers, Dan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 00:21:46 +0300 From: "Dmitri" Subject: Example of allusion Hello, ET-ers! I've a few words for those, who like to discuss quotes, allusion & other stuff. So, I suppose, you've heard Dream Theater's "Falling into Infinity". Track 2 on CD (You Not Me) is beautiful example of allusions in music. Do you remember 'One More Red Nightmare'? Both compositions have similar structure of final. But this is not quote or plagiarism, it's simply allusion by Dream Theater. Dmitri ------------------------------ Date: 16 Mar 99 19:33:49 MST From: wasserd at usa dot net Subject: my semi-annual post I, for one, would LOVE to see Fripp, Belew, Gunn, and Mastelotto in an all-electric version of Crimson. Though I totally dig Bruford (in a rock format, not jazz) and Levin is definitely cool (and his web page is the best!), I don't fear a Bruford-less and Levin-less Crimson. I loved the sound of the 1980's Crim, much due to Bruford's Simmons kit. So, with the advent of Roland's V-drums, I am confident, due to Fripp's various comments in the Diary, that Mastelotto would be phenomenal. Don't fear it, people. Embrace it! Come on, Bobby, let's get on with it! Dan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:41:38 -0500 From: "EDWARD L. PETTIT" Subject: a fan in need of logo shirts "larks tongue in aspic" can anyone help a long-time fan find a sweatshirt w/"LTIA" logo? you see i date this cute girl, and she really likes my sweatshirt. well you see, she can't have it. is their anyone i can contact who handles this type of merchandise? she' look real cute in a shirt, and besides, i'm a good fan. i hope robert fripp gets to read this. elp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 00:06:48 -0500 From: Gary Weimer Subject: Versions of KC by other bands, cont. I've had this one in my back pocket for a while - I've been afraid to throw it out, but.... Back in the '70s, Michael Quatro (yes, Suzi's brother from Detroit) recorded an album (I believe it was titled "Circus") on which he covered either 21st CSM or ITCOCK (brain cells are fading fast). The guitarist on the track was...(deep breath, and hope for the best) TED NUGENT. Back then, it was considered more proper to try to duplicate the original rather than expound on it, but it was interesting. This makes one weird six ways to Fripp! By the way, for those who may scoff, Nugent is a far better guitarist than he's given credit for. I've held one of his old Byrdlands, and he has an absolute feather touch on the frets - if you breath on the neck, the strings make contact. He can handle the licks required to do KC. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:49:09 PST From: "Rich Malitz" Subject: ProjeKct Two - Live Groove/ KC in 1999 I am going to order P2 Live Groove from CDNow. It states that it is a Japanese release and Robert said Pony Canyon would be releasing Live Groove (and P1 at the Jazz Cafe) back in January. I tried to inquire about the Japan release with DGM, but they knew nothing about it. And... Yes, it costs around $35 for the disc. (Or is it discs?) There is some good news though! CDNow is having a 30% off storewide sale. Plus, if you go to CDNow through YahooMusic, you get an additional $5.00 off. The grand total for Live Groove including shipping: $26.98, which isn't too bad considering this seems to be the only option with the ProjeKct Box now delayed (according to DGM) until May or June. I will still get the ProjeKct Box, but I can't wait for Live Groove! You can also get ProjeKct One at the Jazz cafe from CDNow. I will let you guys know when I get it, or if I was ripped off!!! Just to add, I am happy to see that King Crimson will rise again this year, and in a new direction/lineup. I will be calling my travel agent as soon as the tour dates arrive in the fall, unless KC will play the Park West as Robert has mentioned. I'll still travel though! I can't wait. :) Rich Malitz Chicago area ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 04:44:05 +0100 From: "Hotel Martahaus, Zuerich" Subject: Question My name is Mariano. I like to contact the school of Guitar Craft in Switzerland or, when there isn`t here, in England. Thank you. ******************************** * Hotel Martahaus * * Zaehringerstrasse 36 * * CH-8001 Zuerich, Switzerland * * e-mail: info at martahaus dot ch * * Phone: +41-1-251 45 50 * * Fax: +41-1-251 45 40 * ******************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:03:55 +0000 From: Peter Clinch

Subject: re: Fripp's doing it all over again Sergio Nunez opines thusly: > By adding two > performers to the proceedings (quite capable chaps both of > them) the sonic quality of Crimson improved very little > while endangering the interaction between players. I'd agree, but given the complexities it was unlikely that the Double Trio would realise its full potential at the first try. However, it didn't detract obviously either: THRAK was, at least, a score draw, if not an outright win. > Now time has > passed without us seeing any new material by the band and, > as it happens, the hottest "stars" in the band, Bruford and > Levin, moving onto some other projects. Are they really "moving on"? I hadn't noticed any huge absence of other projects in Bill's diary over active Crim periods, and I doubt if Tony's ever had more than 10 minutes without someone wanting him to play a session or tour. They've always been busy, probably will always be very busy. One of Tony's "other projects" this time is a probable tour with PG, which he's been doing since before he joined Crim, and has been doing while he's been in Crim. > My fear is that the criteria used in > inviting Gunn and Mastelotto into the band was very much > that of "supporting" players (even though they're officially > members). I have the impression that Crim has everyone "supporting" at times, and blowing socks off with solo madness at others: ability to lend support is an integral aspect of a band, as opposed to a load of musicians. In fact, what makes T-Lev such a peerless bassist for me is his support capabilities: otherwise bring on Les Claypool (who's good, but no thanks!). I haven't heard any evidence from Double Trio or projeKCt releases that either Trey or Pat are "also rans". Even if they were (which they're not), would that be any more than the case with, say, Boz, who nonetheless put in a successful KC stint though hardly in the T-Lev band of bass virtuosity. And since, as was pointed out at the start, KC80s hardly needs any "support", I can't see how that would be a reason to invite them on board. The point was, I thought, to add potential. I think RF has suggested this potential has yet to be fully realised, but surely KC is about pushing envelopes, or at least trying to. > What has made Crimson special over the years was > the "uniqueness" of its members and I can't take away from > me the idea that this new line-up is heading in the same > direction of the 1970 to early '72 band with Fripp and Belew > leading an otherwise obscure and anonymous line-up. So, where is the evidence that Pat and Trey don't cut the mustard? I haven't heard any... Strikes me that the only sins perpetrated by Trey and Pat are not being Sacred Cows with over a decade of attached baggage. Pete. -- Peter Clinch Dundee University & Teaching Hospitals Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net p dot j dot clinch at dundee dot ac dot uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 10:38:33 +0000 From: Martin Bradburn Subject: KC lineup, TL on Leno, we are fortunate.. Dear Trunked Speakers, The latest installments in RF's diary are very exciting. The P.A.R.T (KC2000)lineup along with the ProjeKct work have the possibility to move the KC sound to another level much the same way that the Disipline band did in the 80's. The availability of such great technology in the hands of people with the skilland vision of P.A.R.T (part,projeKct,pandimonium,plectrum, these arewords with a P this time...). I hope that overall tone of correspondence in ET and the DGM site will help all of us to be open to the music and nurture it wherever possible. I recorded TL on Leno last night with Seal, if anyone wants a copy email me privately. They did one song from the new album, I don't know the name. Tony was playing his yellow (MusicMan?) bass and ripping as usual. His road diary as of late as well as Trey's (about his last gig's with Vernon Reid etc) have been very interesting and insightfull as to the life of working gigsters. We are very fortunate to have this kind of access (and RF's diary) and the note from Pat about getting tickets made available for fans to see P3 at the Cactus shows how much this band cares about their fans. I was a sadened/excited by Roberts call to production and the loss of future Soundscapes shows. I have enjoyed may of the recordings he has produced over the years, but not having any Soundscape shows for a while is like someone borrowing your favorite record and keeping it for awhile. You know you'll get it back but you still miss it. I listened to The Bears "Rise & Shine" on the way to work. The sun was shining, the snow was melting and this picturesque pop was icing on the cake, not little green cake, but hey you can have everything..... Martin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 10:26:45 -0700 From: "Fenkner, Mark" Subject: Guitar Craft articles in Guitar Player A few years ago I had transcribed all the Guitar Craft articles that appeared in Guitar Player magazine into one large Microsoft Word document. Recently when I tried to find it again (after a few moves over the past few years) I was unable to find neither the original articles nor the Word document. Does anyone have a copy of this info? It would be a good idea if Fripp published this information in a book. Thanks for your help! Sincerely, Mark Fenkner mark dot fenkner at wilcom dot com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:24:32 EST From: Jonleebass at aol dot com Subject: Boz activities Hello Crim-heads, I read a recent article in Guitar Player (I think, Stevie Ray on the cover) that contains an article on the recently reunited Paul Rodgers and Bad Company. Well, guess who else has rejoined? Our own dear Boz! It is nice to know that the Bozzel is still active. Evidently, the reconstituted Bad Co. has recorded four new tracks for an Anthology. One track is already getting some airplay in my wonderfully "safe" Appalachian region. (That is Appalachian with a "latch", not a "laytch") So, good for the Boz, says I. I don't expect Bad Co. will be whipping out a version of "Formentera Lady" on tour? ;) Cheers, Jonathan Lee ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 11:37:29 -0600 From: "Grant Colburn" Subject: re: Fripp's doing it all over again, THANK GOD! >From the previous ET: >My fear is that the criteria used in >inviting Gunn and Mastelotto into the band was very much >that of "supporting" players (even though they're officially >members). What has made Crimson special over the years was >the "uniqueness" of its members and I can't take away from >me the idea that this new line-up is heading in the same >direction of the 1970 to early '72 band with Fripp and Belew >leading an otherwise obscure and anonymous line-up. I just wanted to add my proverbial 2 cents to this commentary. There's a couple of things to keep in mind here. One is that there is a very BIG difference between the potential contributions of Trey Gunn to Boz Burell. He may be unknown to the general public but Gunn has immense creative ability to add to a King Crimson group compared to Boz who could barely play. Also, at least in non prog circles, Pat Mastelotto is not an obscure figure. Finally, to those of you who own or have heard the live Sylvian/Fripp "Damage" album you KNOW this is about to be a GREAT band. At this stage I have to admit a definite preference to "Damage" over "Thrak." Its darker and grooves and, last but not least it gave Fripp room to SOLO! For all the great contributions of the other members, its FRIPP I want to hear the most. If there's fewer people it means that Fripp will have room to do more in the music, something I sorely missed on Thrak. This new band will be GREAT. The King is dead, LONG LIVE THE KING! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:02:44 -0600 From: "Sarcastro the Sardonic" Subject: R'N'R HofF inductions Since we've been forced to rejoice about the latest inductions, I wonder if KC is considered eligible, and if so, why are they not already installed??????? Also, will the United States ever see complete remasters of the KC albums with expanded Liner notes (including lyrics to albums and songs missing from '89 Reissues)???? "I will light the way for us to find ORDER of A NEW KIND. JOIN US ON THE STAY, THE ROAD IS MINE!" Queensryche: "NeueRegel" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:58:35 +0000 (GMT) From: Harry White Subject: A King Crimson Day It's a funny old life etc. You wait years for a King Crimson story in the national press, TV etc. and then 3 albeit peripheral come along all at once. The Daily Express of Saturday March 13th covered the Red Nose Day lighting up of the half built Millennium Dome with the sub-head "King Crimson". On BBC2 that evening in the Top Ten of New Romantics (even nostalgia seems a bit modern these days), the bit on Japan played Jean the Birdman from "one of reclusive David Sylvain's solo albums" (sic). Then finally, and most peripherally, I turned to the New Scientist No. 2177 for a bit of bed time relaxation (Yes, I have a beard, yes, I wear glasses and yes, I am a 45 year old living cliche) where on Page 52 is a review of the "Transit Metropolis" by one Robert Cervero of Univ. of California, surely the same man ? Clearly fate is reving up for something significant! -- Harry White Acorn RISC Machine Small, mobile, highly intelligent computers. Techniquest Large, fixed, mainly intelligent institution. -- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 10:11:29 -0800 (PST) From: Percy Subject: My dream Crim Lineup Robert Fripp, guitar Vernon Reid, guitar John Paul Jones, bass and keyboards Terry Bozzio, drums David Bowie, vocals Still trolling for word on Trey Gunn's work on JPJ's long over due solo album. Love, Billy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 10:38:55 -0800 From: "Scott Steele" Subject: "New" Crimson lineup; UK/Asia; "initiative" among KC members; >Subject: NEWS: (or is it?) And the New Crimson is ... >Robert, Adrian, Trey, and Pat. Robert indicates that this >Crimson will tour in October, and record in 2000. Bill and >Tony may well rejoin at a future time. See the letters to >the other Crims posted in Fripp's diary for details. A smaller, more mobile, and very intelligent unit. >But upon careful listening to UK, it comes off as 1) a >brilliant album, and 2) a 70's blueprint for Asia. Although >it has more artistry than Asia does. If only Steve Howe was >in UK rather Than Allen Holdsworth. In 1978 Howe was keeping Yes afloat I think. Holdsworth's contribution to UK is sublime, much better in my opinion than anything Howe might have offered at the end of the 70s. In my view it's too bad that Jobson couldn't have seen things more Holdsworth's way, or that there was no room for both viewpoints. In any case, the Bruford/Holdsworth connection continued to be very potent in Bruford's band, while the Jobson/Wetton connection in UK was less so, in my opinion. >But UK seems to me to be a quintisential 70's album. The >70's permeate that whole lp. Asia in that respect seems >like a step backward. Wetton/Howe/Palmer combination >could've/should've done better! This I completely agree with - Asia was very disappointing to we King Crimson fans of that time. Asia's agenda was different, and that was the source of my disappointment. >Fripp's recent diary entries underline a disturbing point to >me about the double trio King Crimson line up that looks to >become Fripp/Belew/Gunn/Mastelotto. Why is it that no one >else takes initiative in this band? My view is that Fripp >wants the other band members to do so, but none ever do. In my opinion, I think it would be hard to consider myself an equal member of King Crimson even if I had been with the band since 1980, if there was another member present who had been a member of the band since 1969. I would find it hard not to defer to the member with more seniority. This observation reflects my personality more than the personality of any of the current members of King Crimson - I am just trying to walk a mile in their shoes. >The music isn't interested in waiting for side projects to end. If it >is there now, ready to be played, then those available to play it >have an obligation to do so. . . . or not. Personally I see no such obligation on the part of any of the musicians - they must follow their own muse. That being said, King Crimson is an awesome opportunity for any music maker. But a balance must be struck between personal aspirations and band aspirations. From everything I've read, that's been a difficult balance to achieve for all the members of King Crimson throughout its history. - S. scottst at ohsu dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 18:42:01 GMT From: "Cameron Devlin" Subject: Request for TABULATURE If anyone has tabbed the following songs could they please send them to me or Elephant Talk: The Grid - Shades of Sleep Anything by the League of Crafty Guitarists (including the Bach they did Live) Anything on a 10-string Chapman Stick Anything else you think would look good You see, I'm planning a concert in Dorking, UK soon (no one famous appearing) and need some inspiration for setlists. Thanks, Cameron Devlin of "Disciplined" http://www.devlin-web.demon.co.uk/progmusic/kcrimson/kcrimson.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:51:45 -0600 From: "Enstrom, Keith" Subject: Disciple Global Music Sampler vol 2 I am considering ordering the Disciple Global Music Sampler vol 2 "When God Smiles". I see that it has 30 tracks on 1 CD. Are these just pieces of songs or are they complete songs? Keith Enstrom enstrom at worldnet dot att dot net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:19:07 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: Emerson, Orlando & Palmer >From: Joseph Zitt > > REICH: As we speak we are putting together a remix > Techno album of my music. It will be released in the > not-too-distant future. I recently heard this. If you're a techno enthusiast, maybe you'll like it. But if you're approaching it as a Reich fan, it's absolutely *horrid*. Ugh. >From: "John Kuge" > >I have fond memories of ELP's live >rendition, featuring video clips from "2001: A Space >Odyssey" and Cozy Powell's mammoth rotating >acoustic/electronic drum kit. You don't see bombast like >that too often anymore. Sigh.... Or "Hooray...," depending on your point of view. Eb (is it just me, or did the DGM Guestbook saga really suck the life out of this list? Or maybe it's just that too many subjects are off-limits now...I dunno.) now trying to open ET listeners to: the excellent new Beth Orton album, Central Reservation ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:28:27 -0800 (PST) From: Joseph Basile Subject: A Day Dream/ Playing Silly Games/ Easter 1985? Blessed Easter, Before I die I want to hear Starless played live! I don't care who is in the band, as long as Boppin Bobby soars!!! I think it would be cool,if the melloton parts are replaced with soundscapes. Bet Roberto thought about this...ah?! But Roberto knows best.... While writing this ET, and listening to Abandonment to Divine Providence,I happened to hit the enter key, off curser. It made a neat bell sound. Almost like it belong in the song....almost...Of course I had to play some more. I will not except any monetary award for this......Oh, I played a mean air-guitar with Robert too..... So elated that DMG gave us a diary to keep abreast, especially this last month. Us true fans need both DMG, and ET.....And they said television was going to be the death of radio..... On speaking of Television and Easter,did I ever mention the time I came home Easter Sunday, I believe, 1985? Watching a Police video on VH1, and on comes Boppin Bobby and those Crafties ! (See there is a heavenly God!)It was the program New Visions, which I wish they still had. Since I shared my playing experience with the CEO above, maybe some crafty can give us their account of this Easter night...please.... Warmly, Basile By The Three Rivers - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 15:33:28 -0500 From: "Gordon Emory Anderson" Subject: G & M: Supporting players? I have to disagree with Sergio Nunez's recently expressed fear: > My fear is that the criteria used in > inviting Gunn and Mastelotto into the band was very much > that of "supporting" players (even though they're officially > members). I suppose if one had not seen the Trey Gunn band live (or P4), this might be reason to worry. Frankly, the sound of the double trio was so dense that it was hard if not impossible to gauge the effect of TG's playing on the music. Seeing him with his own band, however, was totally different. He not only played some totally complex and smoking lines, there was a sort of brute force, almost punk-like energy that was invigorating. A less crowded King Crimson might allow this player to emerge from under the huge shadow of Tony Levin. As for Pat, I've only heard reports, but I trust that Fripp will not bother touring with these guys if he didn't think he himself would enjoy it. That ensures that there's a reasonable chance things will be musically interesting. -Emory ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:04:12 -0500 From: "Louis Courteau" Subject: Would you turn down a chair with KC? Salut tout le monde. Our ET pal Joe Basile wonders in ET 577 whether a musician has ever turned down an invitation to be in KC. Well, Keith Tippett did. He was offered and really deserved a full-time chair with KC but preferred going in his own directions rather than compromising in any way with the rock'n'roll cirkus. Not that KC's music was THAT compromissive, you know, but they still had to deal with Donald K Donalds and hockey arenas and Holiday Inns and record industry majors. louis courteau loco at caractera dot com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 17:53:38 EST From: Eno1one at aol dot com Subject: Derek Bailey and Jamie Muir Does anyone have information on the collaboration between guitar player Derek Bailey and King Crimson's very own Jamie Muir? There is a CD that exists. Anyone knowing it's title please send a personal reply. Thanks, M ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 11:27:00 -0500 From: John Ott Subject: RE Skunky Deja Vroom sound > Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 10:21:54 -0500 From: "Gordon Emory Anderson" > Subject: DejaVroom Stereo Sound Quality > >Don't want to be a skunk at the picnic (waitaminute, I'd LOVE to be a > skunk at a picnic), but I just don't like the stereo sound quality of > DejaVroom. > Ok Gordon, you get to be THE skunk at this picnic. Happy to oblige. > Now don't get me wrong, DejaVroom is totally cool. One highlight (from > Tony's road movies) is Fripp posing at a Japanese railway station for > photos. He does not visibly cringe! I suspect that much of Fripp's > fan-avoidance comes from the fact that we Americans can turn into a mob > at the drop of a hat. The photo sessions with the fans struck me also, But it was at a train station not at a show. Many fans (even Americans with hats) have pleasant encounters with Mr. Fripp if it is the right time and place. (insert Bowie/Eno "I'm Afraid of Americans" for soundtrack here) > But there's much on this DVD that is really cool. > I WAS hoping, however, that the stereo output would be of "CD quality", > but it isn't. Actually, i think there's a good reason for this--after > the bandwidth consuming DTS soundtrack was put on, they probably only > had room for AC-3 (which is Dolby Surround), or standard stereo. I think > they figured that because most (all?) DVD players can be made to put out > a 2-channel audio from the AC-3, they basically had all bases > covered. But the problem is that the AC-3 seems to have been mixed so > that it could be played on a TV (with its crappy bass reproduction). As > a result, when played through my Levison/Sonic Frontiers/McCormack/Thiel > system, it sounds all washed out. Guess I have to wait for the Live on > Broadway disc to come out, or get a DTS decoder! AC-3 is the bitstream used for digital decoders. (there is also a RF AC-3 on some laserdisc players that requires a RF AC-3 decoder) The Dolby pro-logic system is used for two channel analog output and can be used to process digital two channel output also. The AC-3 bitstream can be mono, stereo, surround matrix discrete 4.0, 5.0 or 5.1 channels. DTS is usually 5.1 discrete. But I have seen a few 4.0 and 4.1 mixes of DTS. (the .1 is the subwoofer channel .0 means no discrete subwoofer encoding) The Dobly AC-3 sound is pretty good (better than CD as the skunk noted below), but the DTS standard has even more resolution Confused? It is explained more completely on the DTS web site if you still care for more techno-babble. Deja Vroom has a AC-3 bit stream of Dolby Digital Surround. (that is what it says in the liner notes and thats what the little box with the dots on the back of the case mean) Dolby surround is a matrix system: two front channels that are discrete, the center channel is the sum of the front channels, the two surround channels are one mono source that is derived from sources common to both front channels. (called ambient) So you get five channels from the two source channels. Discrete (4.0, 4.1, 5.1) mixes have 4,5 or 6 discrete bit streams. Before I got a digital decoder (for both DTS and AC-3 bit streams) I was able to listen to the AC-3 surround from the DVD analog outputs through a pioneer dolby pro-logic receiver. That sounded much better than the VHS stereo mix played through the same pro-logic system from the Live in Japan Video on a Hifi stereo VCR. (any one interested in getting the VHS tape dirt cheap or in trade email me privately) I don't understand why the skunk is getting poor sound though. Mr. Skunk is every thing hooked up correctly? Have you tried adjusting speaker placement, you may have standing waves or canceling problems with your surround field. On Deja Vroom you get more channels with DTS vs the AC-3 Dolby surround matrix. The DVD producers choose to encode it that way. They could have had a 5.1 mix on the AC-3 stream, but would have had to limit other features to fit it on one DVD as the Skunk points out. Folks without DTS decoders might not agree with their choice. There are a lot of DTS decoding receivers coming out this spring. Sony and Yamaha have them out now with more brands to follow suit. They might be out in your town already. You must also have a DTS equipped DVD,LD, or CD player. (there are more DTS LDs than DVDs or CDs at the moment) You might find a good close out deal on a decoder and discrete input receiver package. (I did) It takes more rack space but you might save money. > Then again, I don't mind terribly much, because I sort of find the > picture a bit of a distraction. On a good stereo, the instruments are > arranged in a 3-D sounstage, but the picture is a small 2-D box. > Despite all this, however, there are moments (on side 'B' in particular) > where the boys really start cooking, and the picture with even this > sound remind you of what it was like to be there. The "Vroom Vroom" track has six different DTS mixes and six video views, so you can see/listen to the mix from each players perspective. Other tracks have multiple views and some only one mix/view. > Oh yeah, I did pick up a truly excellent DVD, called "Best of Sessions > at West 54th St". It's got Daniel Lanois, Richard Thompson, Suzanna Vega > and others, and has really excellent 2-channel sound quality (actually, > in theory better than CD because it's sampled at 48KHz). The picture > quality is also wonderful, so the thing makes me less frightened of Sony > taking over the world. Yes I have this also. I agree it is good stuff. there is a vol 2. which I wish I had purchased when I saw it because I can't find it now. It has both dolby stereo surround and Dolby 5.1 digital sound. Does studio 54 have an older Gold Top Les Paul with P-90s that belongs to the studio? Because I've seen a bunch of guys play one in the DVD and on the PBS seris. Probably just a coincidence. later john ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 01:19:02 +-900 From: Jeff Liss Subject: new lineup (i.e. get in line to comment on) Against the warnings of my secret fear of being lost in the crowd, I chip in: 1. Bruford and Levin are not out of the band. Everyone knows this, yet it has to be repeated. Due to scheduling, they're going ahead without them, for now. I posted a thing a few months ago saying that the Projects are the fulfillment of the idea of "mobile unit" thought up by RF back in the 80's -- but was not possible until DGM brought the independence of recording and the ability for RF/KC to take their own risks vis a vis audience "generosity" / disappointment. KC can do their own algebra and manage possible disappointment at the non-appearance of BB/TL -- but short rehearsal time means that BB and/or TL could join as much as they're able between other projects. I imagined back then that we might seen 4, 5, and 6-member KCs come to town in succession within a year -- or at least come somewhere. The fact that a six member lineup playing together for only a week or two won't be seen in every corner of the world is just too bad. Also remember we now have a club that could conceivably get a decent recording of such a show in our hands at a decent price in a reasonable amount of time. 2. Re: Non-Fripp members of the band. Belew is still a main songwriting influence and has been known to play guitar. PM was fully functional in the sextet, as was TG (though he was crowded out.) I don't see any reason to see them as marginal or hired players. As a BB/TL fan I still welcome the opportunity to see these guys shine -- in a more deliberate setting than the Projects. And you can bet that PM will have some acoustic drums on his palette. I think the "electronica" thing has been overstated. I think there was a number 3, but it was either eaten by 1 and/or 2, or it's getting late, or both. Jeff Liss Tokyo ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 08:02:33 -0800 From: "Heilbronner, Mike (I)" Subject: Live at Bremen -- Club Release 4 The live disc with Jamie Muir arrived early this week. Sound quality is far better than previous club releases, and in the context of a live recording from early 1970s, I would call it "good." Fantastic job DGM techies. The thirty-minute improv is fantastic and very interesting. Makes me wonder what the band would have been like if he stuck around for a year or two. "Exiles" I can do without in any form, so I won't comment on the specific performance. "Larks Tongues I" is solid, and Muir again adds a new dimension (lots of weird noises in the background). On the whole, however, it doesn't match up in scope with what's on Great Deceiver. All in all, I recommend it highly as a document of live Crimson with Muir. If the Muir aspect isn't interesting to you in and of itself, you'd be better off with the existing 70s live releases. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 09:40:08 -0500 (EST) From: Christopher W Anderson Subject: Projekct Box, USA Just a word, ET'ers. I contacted Amy at the PosProd office and she said that the Projeckt Box set would be available in the USA in June at the earliest. Sigh. Oh well. They know what there doing at DGM. I dont. I'm sure their is a guitar craft saying about patience...anyone like to quote it for me? Anyway. Looks like its time to update that RF Releases section Dan!! chris ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 13:20:01 -0500 From: "Erik Varga" Subject: ProjeKct One CD ET: ProjeKct One Live At The Jazz Cafe London, December 1 - 4, 1997 An excellent assortment of ProjeKct One improvs. This official CD highlights each of the 4 nights. Most of the improvs are heavy, chaotic and "in-your-face". I appreciate greatly the inclusion of Trey's tear-producing solo from Night 2, which for me is the most memorable moment from attending ProjeKct One. The acoustic drums alone make this ProjeKct unique from the others. The sequencing and editing of tracks from night to night are also very impressive. There were many more twists and turns at ProjeKct One not included on this CD. I anxiously look forward to future ProjeKct One releases. The CD also includes notes by Robert Fripp: "On our fourth and final evening, and between P1's two sets, the Jazz Cafe entered the Quiet Zone. This is where the seeming pressure of time, place and persons falls away. The remarkable realm of openness and expansion of physical space, of a seeming suspension from the flow of events and ordinary time, I am only able to explain as an act of grace. Whether this experience is reflected in the music as such, rather than a particular act of musicking which expresses / glues / catalyses the relationships between music, musicians and audience; whether this was an experience of anyone else in the Jazz Cafe; well, I don't know. The experience of playing and presenting music, always mysterious, whether sitting in front of within an audience, becomes daily more miraculous; Thursday was one of those evenings." (Robert Fripp, November 28th 1998, DGM World Central) Track List: (Night/Set/Improv) 4 i 1 4 ii 1 1 ii 2 4 ii 4 2 ii 3 3 i 2 3 ii 2 2 ii 4 4 i 3 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 11:32:26 -0800 (PST) From: Ryan S Subject: KC 2000? Hi all, From the diary on the DGM page I'm to understand that the new Crimson will be Pat,Ade,Trey, and Fripp? Secondly, Fripp was talking about the Nashville rehearsals costing $30,000. How? Now a days, you can record a high quality album for less than that amount. Also, Fripp says that he was frustrated by the the Nashville sessions because his 2-3 pieces were not completed or even worked on much. I think it is unrealistic to expect a 6 member band to nail any decent song(s) in a week or two, especially if they haven't play together in awhile. Finally, in his letter to Bruford, Fripp claims that it would be unfair and unrealistic "burden" to expect him and Ade to have new material in a couple monthes. Why? Didn't the tandum write most of the 80s CDs? It just sounds to me (I could be wrong, feel free to disagree) that Fripp is hesitant to write and publish new, structured, and band oriented music. Why? If your a fulltime musician, you should have the time and energy to do it. I somewhat understand the cost issues (time and money) but those objections are really crappy. In this day and age, there is no reason you can't produce your own quality CDs from start to finish by yourself. Granted, my band is not on the scale of KC, but we are doing it. Anyone else agree? Thanx, RS ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 12:07:10 -0800 (PST) From: Chad Powell Subject: Fripp On Peter Gabriel III I think someone had asked for the track listing for Peter Gabriel III that Fripp played on. I don't know if this has been addressed yet or not. The full credits for the album are not in the CD, only vinyl and cassette... No Self Control: Fripp - Guitar Burst I Don't Remember: Fripp - Guitar (along w/David Rhodes and Dave Gregory) Not One Of Us: Fripp - Guitar (along w/David Rhodes) I apologize if this has already been noted. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 12:41:22 PST From: "Magnus Larsson" Subject: KC videos? Anyone know if there is any videos available from King Crimson between 1969-75? Fracture is more than a good song, it's a masterpiece... Magnus ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #578 ********************************