Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #577 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 577 Tuesday, 16 March 1999 Today's Topics: NEWS: Adrian IRC Chat; Manticore Records NEWS: TONY LEVIN ON "THE TONIGHT SHOW" NEWS: (or is it?) And the New Crimson is ... Devil's Interval Floyd/KC Connection Reply to P1 post Who should be in KC? mellotron madness (was May 8, 1973 Performance) Re: Allusion or plagiarism? Cat Food and Come Together King Crimson pf/crimson connection REMY ZERO Re: Mars and ELP Live Red prior to 80's ? Anyone has a copy of the Fripp Diary from mid January? Jacksonville & Bremen Early King Crimson Videos P1 - Live at the Jazz Cafe John Paul Jones/Trey Gunn DejaVroom Stereo Sound Quality April Wine's TFCSM ETalk & 3 Questions Deja Vrooom review online To Clarify (Soundscapes) . . . RE: UK/Asia connection Careful when you join the club More Pink Floyd/King Crimson Connections... Versions of 21st CSM by other groups Guitar Craft Tippett in AVANT P1 Live at the Jazz Cafe (Japanese) Gitbox USA Vinyl Offer It won't get done unless I do it... a potential screenplay ELP and Mars Crafty Scales / Copyright issues japanese mini album re-issues Bruford Fripp's doing it all over again Box Sets For Sale RF/SNL Interstice How many Fripp Tuning Enthusiasts are out there? THOUGHTS.................. Review of Beat Club (CC#3) ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.5b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 18:08:32 -0500 From: Gary Davis Subject: NEWS: Adrian IRC Chat; Manticore Records Hi, folks! The latest Artist Shop newsletter is out and you'll find it in its entirety at . But here's some snippets that will definitely be of interest to Crimson fans. Let's start with IRC chats - and we've got a lot of them! First, solo artist and King Crimson vocalist/guitarist Adrian Belew will join us on Sunday, March 14 at 3pm eastern/12 noon pacific. Adrian has previously joined us on Wednesday evenings, but this Sunday afternoon chat will allow the fans in Europe to join in as well since it will be 8pm and 9pm in most of Europe! Adrian has recently joined the Thirsty Ear label and just last month released a new solo acoustic CD called Salad Days. Salad Days features acoustic performances of songs from throughout Adrian's career including some King Crimson as well. Adrian will be taking questions on his new album and his association with Thirsty Ear, plans for the future, and, no doubt, a question or two on the future of King Crimson will be entertained as well! Full details on joining this chat are at . [ Sorry this didn't make it to ET in time. -- Toby ] And I'll briefly mention that we'll also be doing a chat with Robert Wyatt the following Sunday. You'll recall that Fripp acted as producer for one of Wyatt's Matching Mole records. Info on the same page as the Belew Chat On our import pre-order page you'll find the following item. MCDONALD,IAN-DRIVER'S EYES Japanese edition of 1999 solo debut by the King Crimson veteran featuring earlier availability than the rest of the world. Guests on the album include Michael Giles, Steve Hackett, Peter Frampton and Gary Brooker. According to Ian McDonald, there is at least one track that is purely a McDonald and Giles creation. Later in the summer this CD will receive a European release on Steve Hackett's Camino label . We've got some new members to welcome to The Artist Shop including ELP and our new Manticore page . Of particular interest to Crimson fans will be Greg Lake/From the Underground - the Official Bootleg is a collection of 13 rare recordings from Greg Lake's entire career and is designed to be a companion to his other collection, >From the Beginning. These tracks date from 1966 to 1994 and feature solo recordings as well as his work with The Shame, Shy Limbs, King Crimson, ELP, ELPowell, and Asia. There are some new things to talk about on our Magna Carta page . Coming next month is Magna Carta's ELP tribute, Encores, Legends & Paradox! This great tribute features many performances, but top of the list for Crimson fans will be Bitches Crystal and The Sheriff sung by John Wetton! John does an absolutely ripping performance on these numbers. If there's no way that Greg is going to return to the band, then Emerson and Palmer should definitely consider these tracks as an audition!!! Gary ************************************************************** Gary Davis The Artist Shop The Other Road http://www.artist-shop.com artshop at artist-shop dot com phone: 330-929-2056 fax:330-945-4923 SUPPORT THE INDEPENDENT ARTIST!!! ************************************************************** Check out the latest Artist Shop newsletter at http://www.artist-shop.com/news.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 15:48:31 -0500 From: Donal Wool Subject: NEWS: TONY LEVIN ON "THE TONIGHT SHOW" This is a quick note to let you all know that Tony Levin will be performing live on "The Tonight Show with Jay Leno" in a performance with Seal on Tuesday, March 16th @ 11:30PM E.S.T. He is currently on tour with Seal right now in the U.S. I hope this message reaches everyone before tuesday! Crank the next issuse out Toby!!! :-) Take care, -Don- ___________________________________________ dwool at yesic dot com OR tubescreamer at hotmail dot com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:42:50 -0600 (CST) From: flaherty michael w Subject: NEWS: (or is it?) And the New Crimson is ... Robert, Adrian, Trey, and Pat. Robert indicates that this Crimson will tour in October, and record in 2000. Bill and Tony may well rejoin at a future time. See the letters to the other Crims posted in Fripp's diary for details. No one has been ejected from KC, Bill and Tony are simply not available. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 15:17:13 -0500 From: "Jon Swinghammer" Subject: Devil's Interval Ok this was discussed sometime ago but never in a way that provided me with any closure or understanding. Can someone explain to me (in private email) what the Devil's Interval is and how it is found in music particularly King Crimson's music. For example how to recognize that a particular time interval is being used what it adds to the music and how. Any help anyone can give me on this subject would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Jon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 19:46:31 -0500 From: leslabb at ptd dot net Subject: Floyd/KC Connection In ET 576 the following concerning the above subject was discussed: >>as far as i know, the only connections between KCrimson >>and Floyd are that Tony Levin has played on Floyd's first >>post-Waters album From what I have gleemed off the net, the following connection to PF/KC can be made. David Allen, founding father of GONG taught Syd Barret his Glissando Guitar techniques. Thus the similarity of guitar sound between pre-Hillage Gong and early PF. Bill Bruford once played in Peirre Morlien's (sp?) Gong. Thus we come full circle. Les ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 10:38:28 +0800 From: Brady Drum Company / Chris Brady & Craftsmen Subject: Reply to P1 post My only comment on this is that I'm slightly envious you already have it. I'm gonna hang out another (hopefully) 4 weeks or so for the box set. Shane Brady ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 23:16:19 -0500 From: Shawn & Missi Malone Subject: Who should be in KC? With all of the fractals and rumors of who is and isn't in KC, what musicians currently not in KC or never have been in KC, would you think could add an interesting new dimension to the band? (Maybe Robert will read this and seek them out!) Just having some fun here... My first choice if BB were out of it, would be to sack Pat and hire Terry Bozzio. He could cover both Bill and Pat's roles (he can hold down the pulse and fly about on top of it like no one else, as far as I'm concerned. He truly sounds like many drummers playing at once). He has a vast array of different and innovative sounds, has great meter, frightening energy, and most of all, a completely musical approach to drumming...(and he's worked with Tony and Adrain before!) Let's here some ideas...the crazier the better... Bass ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 11:06:56 +0000 From: Peter Clinch

Subject: mellotron madness (was May 8, 1973 Performance) Further to the problems noted with touring with Mellotrons in ET#576 by Bill Jones, listening to a Genesis interview once I heard tell of a tale from their early years... At a gig in the Black Prince in Bexley (basically a large pub) they apparently had a mishap that involved the whole car park being submerged in miles of tape, and a not particularly useful 'tron as a result... Pete. -- Peter Clinch Dundee University & Teaching Hospitals Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net p dot j dot clinch at dundee dot ac dot uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 14:43:34 -0500 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Allusion or plagiarism? kholmhud at nwu dot edu (Kevin Holm-Hudson) wrote: >Roozeboom at aol dot com wrote: >>"Anyone else spot the chord progression from the intro to >>that song ["Free as a Bird"] deep within THRaKaTTaK? > All very well and good, but the copyright owner may not see > it that way. As I understand it, chord progressions can not be copyrighted. Look at the jazz tunes with "I Got Rhythm" changes or the endless array of harmonically identical blues and early rock and roll. I would be interested in any evidence that would show this not to be the case. > For example, The Orb may have been "paying > tribute" to Steve Reich for their sampling of Reich's > "Electric Counterpoint" in the studio version of "Little > Fluffy Clouds," but the fact that in performance they play > the pattern live and that they assigned 50% of the song's > copyright to "unknown" speaks of covering their tracks; > perhaps Reich (or his publishers) would feel differently? >From an interview with Seconds Magazine at >http://www.secondsmagazine.com/issue47/reich2.html : REICH: As we speak we are putting together a remix Techno album of my music. It will be released in the not-too-distant future. I was in London about five or six years ago, and somebody said, "Have you heard [The Orb's] "Little Fluffy Clouds?" I said, "What's that?" and he gave me the CD, and I heard my Electric Counterpoint in there. I began to realize that in other instances groups have either taken pieces of mine or obviously listened to their procedures. I think that's great! I mean, I'm fourteen years old, I'm at Birdland, I'm listening to Kenny Clarke, and then I'm on-stage at Queen Elizabeth Hall and there's Eno, and later when I was in Berlin doing Music For 18 Musicians, there was David Bowie, and now there's these Techno guys. I mean, it's a two-way street. It's that back and forth. Bach was doing the dance suite during the Baroque period. What are dance suites? They came out of dances! They didn't fall from the Moon! And that was the way it was. Stravinsky used Folk Music! Bartok's music life was at one with collecting Folk songs. So, if you like, this is a restoration of normalcy after this weird period. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 15:39:00 -0500 From: "Hannigan, James" Subject: Cat Food and Come Together All this talk of KC borrowing from the Beatles reminded me of something: anyone notice a resemblance between "Cat Food" and "Come Together"? Certainly, the timing would make sense (CT-1969, CF-1970). The basic riff of CF (when the song starts) sounds derived from the part of CT before the lyrics begin (a bass line mostly) - Jim Hannigan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 16:47:51 EST From: OIMON at aol dot com Subject: King Crimson Hello!!! I was wondering something, and I hope that you can tell me more about it. Somebody from a local CD retailer around here in Grand Rapids, Michigan said that there is a club that you can join. He wasn't sure what it was called. He said that through this club you could order King Crimson T-shirts, video, and a bunch more stuff. Is this true? If so, I do I join? Could you give me more details on what the club is? If you could do this for me I would be very grateful. Please write back. Thanks, Jeremy....AKA "The Flying Dutchman" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 18:03:58 -0500 From: fortaz at sprintmail dot com Subject: pf/crimson connection Although a very minimal connection mention should be made of the outstanding album HQ by Roy Harper featuring Floyd's David Gilmour and Bill Bruford playing on the track "The Game". This of course done for Roy Harper after he sang for the Floyd on Wish You Were Here's "Have a Cigar". Again very minimal but a great album! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 20:32:17 -0500 From: Gary Weimer Subject: REMY ZERO There's a band, REMY ZERO, that's getting some airplay. The cut that I hear has a guitar break that takes a hauntingly familiar approach - reverse envelope, sideways phrasing, extrememly fluid. I don't suppose producer David Bottrill had anything to do with it. Hmmm.............. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 18:33:35 -0700 From: Erik Habbinga Subject: Re: Mars and ELP James Dusewicz wrote: > I know that KC's early performances preceeded ELP's (1986) release. But at > the time I thought it was strange that ELP would include it on their album. Here's an excerpt from a July 1986 Keyboard magazine interview w/ Emerson on their version of Mars. I've cut out some of the less interesting parts of the reply. Q: The last cut, your adaptation of Holst's "Mars", sounds like a particularly complex arrangement. A: Actually, that was done very quickly. It was almost an afterthought. After we thought we'd finished the album, the record company said, "Well? Where's the classical thing?" ... what finally convinced me to do it was a video Cozy [Powell, the P in the 1986 incarnation of ELP] showed me of him performing it with his former band. The poor chap had to do it with tapes, though. ... It was literally a drum solo to a tape recorder... So I got the music, we tried it at rehearsals, and it worked out pretty well. No mention of KC at all. Maybe if they had asked Lake the same question the answer would have been different. Erik ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 22:55:22 -0500 From: Chuck Benz Subject: Live Red prior to 80's ? Was any of side 1 of Red ever performed live by the '74 Trio (or Quartet) ? I've often wondered... Because it does not appear on Great Deceiver, I've often suspected not... (Side 1 being Red, Fallen Angel and One More Red Nightmare, for you CD-only folks). The 80's lineup was the first live Crimso I got to see, and I was delighted to hear Red then ! \chuck benz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 07:36:02 +0100 From: leif dot myhrer at sebank dot se Subject: Anyone has a copy of the Fripp Diary from mid January? Hi! Since the Robert Fripp Diary on the net is more detailed than the version provided with the Collectors' Club release, or at least have been in the past, I would like to have a copy of the Diary in the period January 8 to January 20 this year. I'm collecting the actual HTML files to be able to read it all, but unfortunately I was not able to do this for this period. Can anyone out there help me with any copy, no matter which format? Regards Leif Myhrer leif dot myhrer at sebank dot se ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 07:40:34 +0100 From: leif dot myhrer at sebank dot se Subject: Jacksonville & Bremen Hello! Anyone know if these Collectors' Club releases are the complete shows? In case they are not I am very interested in the track lists as well. Thanks all involved for this fantastic newsletter! Regards Leif Myhrer leif dot myhrer at sebank dot se ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 07:48:10 +0100 From: leif dot myhrer at sebank dot se Subject: Early King Crimson Videos Hi! Does anyone know if there is any early King Crimson videos available? Both the Top of the pops show in 1970 and the latest Collectors' Club release from a TV show made in Bremen are candidates for existing videos I believe. As far as I know the Top of the pops show is the only 1970 live Crimson as well, so that makes it extra interesting. In addition there might be videos from regular concerts, what do I know. If anyone have any information I will be very pleased to hear from you. Regards Leif Myhrer leif dot myhrer at sebank dot se ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:26:47 -0500 From: bruce higgins Subject: P1 - Live at the Jazz Cafe |I don't believe I've seen a single post about this release. |I received my Japanese Import of it a few days ago from |CDnow.com and I like it. I like P2 Space Groove more right |now, but this is the first I've heard of P1. Any comments on this release? Has anyone else picked it up? Any indication which night the recording is from? I've heard quite good AUDS of 12/3 and 12/4 and they are fairly different performances. The third is relatively "smooth" and "melodic" (note I say relatively ;-) while the fourth is very angular and post-thrakkish. While I enjoyed the P1 recordings quite a lot, a hot date with P4 definitely revealed The Beast. This release has gotta be a boot (ooh, and $32? ouch!), and will no doubt incur Mr. Fripp's wrath. Hopefully, it may also give him impetus to accelerate the release of the long-promised Collector's Club ProjeKct box. B___ <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> L. Bruce Higgins LBH2 at cornell dot edu "Hey sport. You connect the dots. You pick up the pieces." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 06:44:31 -0800 (PST) From: Percy Subject: John Paul Jones/Trey Gunn Any word from the Crimson camp on Trey Gunn's involvement with the soon-to-released solo offering from John Paul Jones, formerly of Led Zeppelin? This album is waaaaaaaaaaaaay overdue. Any inside scoop would be greatly appreciated. Love, Billy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 10:21:54 -0500 From: "Gordon Emory Anderson" Subject: DejaVroom Stereo Sound Quality Don't want to be a skunk at the picnic (waitaminute, I'd LOVE to be a skunk at a picnic), but I just don't like the stereo sound quality of DejaVroom. Now don't get me wrong, DejaVroom is totally cool. One highlight (from Tony's road movies) is Fripp posing at a Japanese railway station for photos. He does not visibly cringe! I suspect that much of Fripp's fan-avoidance comes from the fact that we Americans can turn into a mob at the drop of a hat. But there's much on this DVD that is really cool. I WAS hoping, however, that the stereo output would be of "CD quality", but it isn't. Actually, i think there's a good reason for this--after the bandwidth consuming DTS soundtrack was put on, they probably only had room for AC-3 (which is Dolby Surround), or standard stereo. I think they figured that because most (all?) DVD players can be made to put out a 2-channel audio from the AC-3, they basically had all bases covered. But the problem is that the AC-3 seems to have been mixed so that it could be played on a TV (with its crappy bass reproduction). As a result, when played through my Levison/Sonic Frontiers/McCormack/Thiel system, it sounds all washed out. Guess I have to wait for the Live on Broadway disc to come out, or get a DTS decoder! Then again, I don't mind terribly much, because I sort of find the picture a bit of a distraction. On a good stereo, the instruments are arranged in a 3-D sounstage, but the picture is a small 2-D box. Despite all this, however, there are moments (on side 'B' in particular) where the boys really start cooking, and the picture with even this sound remind you of what it was like to be there. Oh yeah, I did pick up a truly excellent DVD, called "Best of Sessions at West 54th St". It's got Daniel Lanois, Richard Thompson, Suzanna Vega and others, and has really excellent 2-channel sound quality (actually, in theory better than CD because it's sampled at 48KHz). The picture quality is also wonderful, so the thing makes me less frightened of Sony taking over the world. -Emory ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:56:02 -0600 From: Mary Rogers Subject: April Wine's TFCSM In et 575, Bolinhed wrote: >Just when ya thought you'd heard it all....80's MTV >sorta-metall-ish many- guitar-band April Wine ("Sign of the >Gypsy Queen," "Just Between Me and You," and of course "I >Like To Rock") just had a KING BISCUIT PRESENTS CD of a 1982 >show of theirs come out - and they play 21st Century >Schizoid man on it. Jimmy says ouch. If I recall correctly, when their studio version came out ages ago, the Frippster was pleased. Bill Jacobson ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 12:00:46 -0500 From: "Joseph S.Basile" Subject: ETalk & 3 Questions Yo, Hi,Ho, Listening to the live CD Night Watch, I fell in love with how Fracture,the title track, and improv/S&BibleBlack flow -Yaohw!! Wish I was there! Also listening to the live Absent Lovers CD,I finally noticed how Discipline,is so magically played!!I thought it was the studio album until I heard the applause!? Three Questions for you Eters:1)Saw a Michael Mannering CD listed in the Crimson rack at Circut City. It was listed on Magna Carta Records. Anything to this? 2)Would it be safe to say that most Crimsons fanatics don't really care about who is in the next incarnation of Crimson, just so Bobby calls the shots? Most,remember I said "most"? 3) In Crimsons 25 or so year history, does anyone have knowledge of any player that turn down an invitation to be in the Crimson King? Happy St. Patricks' Day! Warmly, Joe ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 11:43:47 -0600 From: "Patrick Logterman" Subject: Deja Vrooom review online Hello ET'ers. Some of you may be interested in a brief review of the Deja Vrooom DVD located at: http://avclub.theonion.com/video.html It's oddly coupled with a review of the new Metallica DVD. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 11:46:55 -0600 (CST) From: flaherty michael w Subject: To Clarify (Soundscapes) . . . When I said Soundscapes are not rock I certainly did not mean this statement as a "negative." What I did mean (in keeping with the subject of my post) is that as they are not "rock" behavior normally tolerated at "rock" concerts (e.g. photography) may not necessarily be appropriate at Soundscape performances. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: 10 Mar 99 13:12:42 EST From: James Dusewicz Subject: RE: UK/Asia connection With all the sublime and variated influences showing up an UK's first album, it's a pity that the original lineup didn't hang around to make another lp. Or did they just run out of steam(if you'll excuse the pun). But upon careful listening to UK, it comes off as 1) a brilliant album, and 2) a 70's blueprint for Asia. Although it has more artistry than Asia does. If only Steve Howe was in UK rather Than Allen Holdsworth. But UK seems to me to be a quintisential 70's album. The 70's permeate that whole lp. Asia in that respect seems like a step backward. Wetton/Howe/Palmer combination could've/should've done better! jim campaigner at usa dot net James Dusewicz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 19:55:01 +0100 From: "FREDERIC PARESY" Subject: Careful when you join the club I joined the collector's club last month. Yesterday, I received at least but not at last the first 3 CDs. The problem is that I didn't ordered them. Reviewing the DGM website, I read that when you join the club you receive them automatically unless you tell otherwise. Today, I'm much more in KC new stuff than the beginning of the first period. So when you join the club, don't forget to tell that you want or don't want the Cds already released. Imagine when there is going to be 6 club releases: it will mean you spoil your #78 in CD you may do not want without the possibity to have the next promised released CD you never have dared to dream of... I think that is a disappointing fact when you join the club and there is something of deception. I loved all KC what has done but my mood theses days turn to newer stuff and for my part, when i decided to join the club, it was to be a part of the present and the future of the club, not to receive things that already exists and that, I have to admit, I have already have in bootlegs (God damn me!). Fred from France ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 18:52:46 -0500 From: "Neil Forker" Subject: More Pink Floyd/King Crimson Connections... Mel Collins also appears on Richard Wright's "Wet Dream" and Nick Mason's "Profiles". Those are the only other 'direct' connections that I could come up with. Mick Ralphs of Bad Company toured with David Gilmour in 1984. That would set up an indirect connection through Boz Burrell. Guy Pratt (Pink Floyd bassist on Delicate Sound of Thunder, The Division Bell, & Pulse) used to be in a band called Icehouse. Some of the tracks on Icehouse's album "Measure for Measure" were produced by Rhet Davies (80's King Crimson producer) and Eno is credited as a member of the band as well (Backing vocals, treated piano and keyboards). However, there are endless examples of these sorts of connections. I'll not waste ET's space or anyone else's time with such dribble. Neil Forker ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 17:07:33 -0800 From: "Scott Steele" Subject: Versions of 21st CSM by other groups >Just when ya thought you'd heard it all....80's MTV >sorta-metall-ish many- guitar-band April Wine ("Sign of the >Gypsy Queen," "Just Between Me and You," and of course "I >Like To Rock") just had a KING BISCUIT PRESENTS CD of a >1982 show of theirs come out - and they play 21st Century >Schizoid man on it. Jimmy says ouch. The studio version is available on "Harder . . . Faster", which is certainly one way to approach things . . . I get a kick out of it. Another interesting version of 21st CSM is by Voivod, Canadian metal maniacs. That one is just plain scary, and I mean that in a good way. The guitar player plays Fripp's solo note for note, and in the new setting, the solo is possibly even more frightening than even nature had intended. I will keep the CD for this song, but the rest of the album disturbs me (your mileage may vary); to give you an idea of where I'm coming from, I can't really go for 9-in. Nails either. - S. scottst at ohsu dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 09:23:51 -0500 From: BULLJ1 at westat dot com (BULLJ1) Subject: Guitar Craft >Hey. Somebody thought it would be nice and I think it would >be nice if one of these guys who have takin "Guitar Craft" >put out a guitar book on it. In Guitar Craft, there's a very effective technique for preventing the proliferation of bright ideas: the guy who recognizes the need gets to take on the challenge (rather than assigning it to others). Of course, Andy would have to attend a Guitar Craft course first. Joan Bull bullj1 at westat dot com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 20:43:42 -0500 From: Chelsea Snelgrove Subject: Tippett in AVANT Greetings All: Just thought I'd mention that there's an article about Keith Tippett in the current issue of AVANT magazine. There's a special piano section which includes Tippett. Cheers, Chelsea Snelgrove ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 09:54:53 +1300 From: David MacLennan Subject: P1 Live at the Jazz Cafe (Japanese) Can anyone enlighten me as to whether the Japanese issue of Projekct One - Live at the Jazz Cafe, currently listed on CDNow at a horrendous price, is a double or a single disc? Reply off-list to: David dot Maclennan at moc dot govt dot nz Thanks, David Maclennan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 17:41:29 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel De Blasio - 99 Subject: Gitbox Hi all, I would appreciate any information on Gitbox. More specifically, I am familiar with "Touch Wood," but am in the dark about such recordings as "Pesky Digits," and, what is it, "Our Lady of the Highway"? Responses about how and where the latter two recordings can be purchased are most pertinent to me in this regard. Graces, Daniel DeBlasio ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 10:38:48 -0500 From: "RAYMOND J RAUPERS JR." Subject: USA Vinyl Offer I recently picked up a copy of USA on vinyl (EGKC 9). The album rates mint or a conservative near mint right down to the gloss on the cover. I ran a copy on my Phillips audio only CD recorder and will not play the album again. Would any of you vinyl people have an interest in this item? I paid $8...trades welcomed. Looking for a copy of Alice Cooper's: "Pretties For You" on CD. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 11:23:32 PST From: "Nomad Stem" Subject: It won't get done unless I do it... Fripp's recent diary entries underline a disturbing point to me about the double trio King Crimson line up that looks to become Fripp/Belew/Gunn/Mastelotto. Why is it that no one else takes initiative in this band? My view is that Fripp wants the other band members to do so, but none ever do. Perhaps this is because they feel it is Fripp's band, eventhough Fripp tells us, and them, otherwise. I mostly see this with Belew's input to the band, or lack thereof. I can understand Fripp's frustration about this next step. Its seems to be a case of "if I don't do it, it will never get done". None of the other band members invest as much of themselves into the band, which is a shame. Was it not for Fripp King Crimson would have ceased to exist eons ago (which is an irony since history will write, and has, that it is Fripp who broke the band(s) up). I'd like to ask Adrian during Sunday's IRC chat, just why he doesn't step up to the plate and move King Crimson along as much as Fripp does, or is King Crimson no more than a pet project for him, no more interesting to him than Dust or Salad Days, but perhaps more lucrative, which is the main reason he continues with it? And then they'll be those that will say Fripp is a dictator, blah blah blah. It is clear that Bill Bruford was not presenting the band with solutions. Credit Tony Levin for recognizing this, and that for King Crimson to move ahead, it needs to do so without the contraints of some people's schedules. The music isn't interested in waiting for side projects to end. If it is there now, ready to be played, then those available to play it have an obligation to do so. I hope that Trey Gunn and Pat Mastelotto get involved in this band with a passion that unfortunately only Fripp has displayed. Otherwise King Crimson inevitably becomes Fripp's band, and the other band members can have little beef with that if they don't care enough themselves. Nomad ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 17:02:25 -0500 From: "Johannes, Gary" Subject: a potential screenplay I was thinking... Given (a) Fripp's devotion to the film work of Steven Seagall and (b) the fact that I recently heard that Mr. Seagall, an accomplished blues guitarist, has been known to gig from time to time... Well, I got this little notion for a potential screenplay, and, uh, well, here it is: [Crowded blues/rock club. Anticipatory hooting and whooping. A roar goes up as Seagall, guitar in hand, walks onstage with his band. Seagall smiles, waves, plugs in, counts off and the band kicks in. Close-up on Seagall's face as he starts getting into it. Three bars into the song, his face is suddenly illuminated by a photographic flash from the audience. Full close-up on his eyes; they narrow. The music stops. In a single, fluid motion, Seagall slings his guitar over his back, whips out this really huge handgun and shoots the photographer in the head. The audience noise lessens, though not much. Seagall scans the crowd.] SEAGALL: Any other takers? [He is immediately answered by two more flashes, one from each side. With characteristic grace and ease, Seagall shoots both photographers in the head. The camera pans over the crowd, which is starting to get nervous. Close-ups on various photographers struggling between the desire to get pictures and the fear of death. A medium shot of Seagall, silently challenging his adversaries with narrowed eyes. At last, we see a photographer way in the back of the crowd squeeze off a quick flash and bolt for the exit. Seagall throws his guitar to the side and leaps into the crowd, waving his sidearm. As he struggles through, the audients react with indignation.] AUDIENTS (indignantly): Hey, quit pushin'! Cut it out, Steven! You got a license for that thing? How bogus!, etc. [This gives the photographer enough time to get out of the club and run down the street to his car. He turns the ignition and peels out, but not before Seagall gets out of the club himself and spots him. Seagall flags down a passing car; its driver whips out a disposable camera and takes his picture.] SEAGALL (through clenched teeth): If you'd done that while I was performing, I would have shot you in the head! [He opens car door, pulls out driver, climbs in and takes the wheel. An incredible chase ensues. (Note: Make this the most incredible chase scene ever.) Seagall finally catches up with the photographer and shoots him in the head. Roar of approval goes up from crowd which had been witnessing chase; they lift Seagall on their shoulders and give him hero's welcome. Someone hands him a guitar and he plays film theme song. A bunch of newspaper photographers crowd around, taking flash pictures of Seagall. Full close-up on his eyes; they narrow. Blackout. Roll credits.] This is actually only the end. I'll have to establish beforehand that the first photographer is a child pornographer, the next two are drug dealers and the one in the car chase is this guy who doesn't know Seagall's policy regarding flash photography during performance. The driver whose car gets commandeered I'm not sure about yet, although I think he should be played by Brian Dennehy. Working title: From The Basement. Not bad, huh? And I've never even seen a Seagall flick! (Although I was in attendance at the first soundscape show at the Bottom Line in December 1997...) Gary Johannes ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 17:28:30 -0500 From: "John Kuge" Subject: ELP and Mars James Dusewicz wrote: >> I know that KC's early performances preceeded ELP's >> (1986) release. But at the time I thought it was strange >> that ELP would include it on their album. I remember an interview around the time of the ELPowell release where either Emerson or Lake mentioned that ELP had performed "Mars" in the early days. Before they had much original material, I know they also worked 21CSM (briefly) and some Nice material into their set; this might have been another "cover" they played circa 1970. On a related note: They also said that they had already completed the album when the record company pointed out that there was no trademark classical reworking (a la "Fanfare for the Common Man," "Canario," "Hoedown," "Pictures," etc.), and suggested that they add one to the album. "Mars" was a logical choice since Emerson and Lake had previously arranged and played it. Consequently, the addition of this track meant that their weird cover of "The Locomotion" had to be cut from the album (it later showed up as the B-side to "Touch and Go"). Personally, I think "Mars" was the better choice. I have fond memories of ELP's live rendition, featuring video clips from "2001: A Space Odyssey" and Cozy Powell's mammoth rotating acoustic/electronic drum kit. You don't see bombast like that too often anymore. Sigh.... John Kuge ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 12:46:54 -0000 From: "Brian Thomson, London UK" Subject: Crafty Scales / Copyright issues 1) I don't actually play in "New Standard" tuning myself, but a project I've been playing with for a few years may be of use to anyone who's working out scales etc. in different tunings. It's a spreadsheet (currently on MS Excel 95 +) with formulae that lay out a piano keyboard and a fretboard (with any number of strings in any tuning) on screen. You then select a root note and a chord or scale, and it plots the appropriate notes on screen. What it doesn't do is tell you exactly which finger to put where - it doesn't understand human hands! My newest version also features a reverse lookup facility, so you can type in D#, Gb, A, B, D and be told that the best matches are a D 13b9 or B 7#9. Drop me a line and I'll mail you a copy (it's a 42k ZIP of a 212k XLS file) 2) Copyrights: (this is in danger of becoming an ex-thread...) kholmhud at nwu dot edu (Kevin Holm-Hudson) wrote: "For example, The Orb may have been "paying tribute" to Steve Reich for their sampling of Reich's "Electric Counterpoint" in the studio version of "Little Fluffy Clouds," but the fact that in performance they play the pattern live and that they assigned 50% of the song's copyright to "unknown" speaks of covering their tracks; perhaps Reich (or his publishers) would feel differently?" Funny how this came up, just after I read an interview with Steve Reich in a magazine. Among other things, he talks about how The Orb were up for a remix of one of his pieces (album due out soon). He said "who they?", so someone played him "Little Fluffy Clouds". He said he is now aware of and flattered by "Little Fluffy Clouds" and the way it quoted "Electric Counterpoint", and has no problems with the Orb at all - on the contrary. AFAIK, the real controversy with "Little Fluffy Clouds" wasn't related to Reich at all, but court procedures were threatened by Rickie Lee Jones' record company, since the voiceover was taken from an interview with her. Then RLJ herself heard it and said "what the hell you doin'? This is good!" That was that, the way I heard it, and explains the copyright attribution - no-one remembers the interview source. The Orb's newer stuff (Orbus Terrarum, Orblivion) uses original samples, is great, and the old stuff still holds up very well. Now, what about FFWD>> Part II? Back then, it wasn't clear just how far you could go and what had to be done to clear samples, but there are now procedures in place and industry guidelines to cover sample use. I'm old enough to remember the M.A.R.R.S. lawsuit 10 years ago - they sampled a car crash from a Stock / Aitken / Waterman production and got hauled through the Old Bailey. (Mr. Fripp reports in the DGM Diary that he has been approached for permission to use samples from Earthbound..!) Brian Thomson, London UK bnt at email dot com / bnt at ibm dot net "In this chaos, we need to shift; we need to quit believing in the comforting delusion of structure and start relying on that which will emerge." -- John Perry Barlow ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 09:33:44 -0800 From: big ed mustaffa Subject: japanese mini album re-issues i recently discovered that the first ten crimson albums have been re-issued in japan with gold discs and miniature album sleeves.( this seems to be a popular trend over there) would you possibly be able to tell me if the sound quality on these discs are any better than the sound on the definitive edition remasters available here in the u.s. any information would be greatly appreciated. thanks. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 14:00:03 EST From: GooBoy95 at aol dot com Subject: Bruford <> I haven't been tuned in to ET in some time, so I'm not aware of the latest inside jokes; can someone please just tell me that this comment about a "Bruford-less Crimson" is in fact a reference to a recent dialogue in ET, and not a reference to the actual fact that Bill Bruford has left King Crimson. Thank you. -jordan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 19:28:00 -0400 From: Sergio Nunez Subject: Fripp's doing it all over again When the new line-up for King Crimson was announced I more or less suspected things would come this way. By adding two performers to the proceedings (quite capable chaps both of them) the sonic quality of Crimson improved very little while endangering the interaction between players. Also, it went on to make even more difficult for the "double trio", as Fripp prefers to call it, to get together. Now time has passed without us seeing any new material by the band and, as it happens, the hottest "stars" in the band, Bruford and Levin, moving onto some other projects. That leaves us with Fripp's suggested prospect of continuing the band as a quartet without them. My fear is that the criteria used in inviting Gunn and Mastelotto into the band was very much that of "supporting" players (even though they're officially members). What has made Crimson special over the years was the "uniqueness" of its members and I can't take away from me the idea that this new line-up is heading in the same direction of the 1970 to early '72 band with Fripp and Belew leading an otherwise obscure and anonymous line-up. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 08:21:11 EST From: Papiav at aol dot com Subject: Box Sets For Sale I have the following for sale: "Frame by Frame" box set, 4 CDs mint condition. Best offer. "The Great Deceiver" 4 CDs, live mint condition. Best offer. Both were bought the day they came out & are totally perfect condition. Vinny Papia ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 08:15:36 -0600 From: Bill Jacobson Subject: RF/SNL Interstice Hi Gang, If the thread's not dead yet, the Fripp/Saturday Night Live connection is direct: RF once backed Linda Ronstadt on the show. On the broadcast you can briefly see a Les Paul player sitting down. Bill Jacobson ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:59:40 +0000 From: "Curtis J. Simon" Subject: How many Fripp Tuning Enthusiasts are out there? There are few men whose knowledge of the electric guitar runs as wide and deep as Robert Fripp. I was therefore very excited when I ran across this site, which described the his new tuning system. I had a cheap steel string lying around, so I gave it a go. (I did not dare use a .011 for the high G -- I used .009 instead). When I first tuned up, I was amazed -- it sounded like an entire orchestra warming up. I quickly figured out a variety of open and barre chords, and started playing various rock standards. I was amazed at how easily they transferred and how much richer they sounded. For example, the Rolling Stones' "Wild Horses" sounds beautiful using the new tuning -- one gets a sound very close to that obtained by Mick Taylor's Nashville-strung acoustic. I have discovered many benefits of the new tuning. Among them: 1. The new tuning allows one to play open C and G with two fingers instead of three, which should make it far easier to teach to beginners. Open D, Ami, and Emi are also playable with two fingers, but one must be careful not to hit the bottom strings. 2. Barre chords -- both major and minor -- are a snap. Dominant 7s require no more than a shift of one finger. 3. The new tuning is compatible with many traditional rock and roll voicings. It is easy to get sus4 chords and one can play Berry-Boogies without too much trouble. Mr. Fripp's tuning has many of the positive characteristics of Keith Richard's open-G tuning, but allows for many more interesting chromatic possibilities. (It is ironic that a Fripp tuning is so compatible with Keith Richard's style.) 4. It is easier to discover musically interesting patterns than with the traditional tuning. Gone are the cliches associated with the pentatonic scale: the guitarist now is forced by circumstances to confront the entire chromatic pallete. 5. Seldom do I approach the guitar without coming up with a new idea. This may be simply because the tuning is new -- I've played guitar for 25 years. However, part of being creative is a result of experimentation -- hearing something new "by accident." The standard tuning makes experimentation difficult. I hope that guitarists consider Mr. Fripp's tuning seriously. In a world where one can buy a guitar for $100 plus change -- less than the price of the next electronic device that one hopes will lead to musical salvation -- there is no excuse for not giving it a try! Curt Simon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:58:34 +0400 From: ccartaya at contrina dot com Subject: THOUGHTS.................. DEAR E.T ....FRIENDS: AS FAR AS I CAN TELL..............THE PERFORMANCE CONTAINED IN THE PROJECKT 2. -SPACE GROOVE-ALBUM (FRIPP,BELEW,GUNN) CONTAIN ONLY ONE CHANNEL OF RECORDED MUSIC (BASS, DRUMS AND GUITAR).....THE "OTHER CHANNELS" WHERE INTENTIONALLY MUTED............OR REMOVED.. LISTEN CAREFULLY AND YOU'LL NOTICE THE VOIDS, GAPS AND NOTICEABLE DISCONTINUITY OF THE OVERALL CONCEPT....... -PROBABLE GOOD NEWS:...... SPECIAL EDITION FOR "SPACE GROOVE PART 2". CONTAINING THE OVERALL PERFORMANCE........) (.....IDEA....: YOU, AS A K.C "DIEHARD" CAN BE A PROUD PART OF THIS PROJECKT.... PROVIDING YOUR OWN LYRICS, SOLOS OR MELODIES -ABOVE THE EXISTING MUSIC- THAT CAN SURELY MATCH THE CHAOS OF HEARING SOLELY "K.C" DISPERSED RITHYM SECTION.......!!!!!) PROBABLE BAD NEWS: (OR GOOD NEWS FOR MR. FRIPP AND D.G.M ).......... SELLING "HALF OF THE MUSIC" FOR THE SAME PRICE...... "....WE LIVE IN A WORLD OF PARTIAL TRUTHS.......". (IF THERE IS ANY...!!!) WANT TO HEAR YOUR COMMENTS ON THIS....... C.CARTAYA. CARACAS/VENEZUELA ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:58:23 -0600 (CST) From: flaherty michael w Subject: Review of Beat Club (CC#3) I recently said here that I wished the DGM Club releases would become more eclectic; I said this with the assumption that release #3 would be much like the other live releases from its time period. I spoke to soon: With this, the third DGM club release, Robert Fripp has found a tape that could very well stand to symbolize the club's significance. This fair quality tape of mostly instrumental music would not appeal to the average fan, but for the true believers, particularly those who are especially fond of the '72-'74 version of the band, it is fair to call this, their first public performance, essential. The disc begins, appropriately enough for the best Crimson in terms of improvization, with a 30 minute (or so) improv. The music is somewhat like later improvs, but what's amazing here is how far these players are able to sustain the quality of the improvization. Were audiences more generous, perhaps more work of this type would be available; as it is, we are fortunate that this rare tape has survived. The improv gives way to a beautiful version of "Exiles," and ends with a solid performance of "Larks Toungue Part I." If you play the Great Deceiver on a regular basis, this CD is worth your admission into the club. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #577 ********************************