E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Issue Number 569 Tuesday, 26 January 1999 Today's Topics: NEWS: Guestbooks, DGM, Fracture and Release info GIG BIZ: Meanwhile, back in the USA... 8 track version of Red French message translation Kc for me... Sadness and Joy DGM guestbook closing - I'm not surprised Sean Malone/Gordian Knot/Trey Gunn CD Recommendation for P2 Lovers Inevitability Pre-GG&F songs; Crimson 69; Fred Duerr; communities born An open letter to Mr. Fripp Adrian Belew in Roland Users Group magazine mention of Crimson THE 90'S CRIM Closing of the Guestbook The Kvetchbook of Norbert Fragg Belew/Benigni Central Park-Bruford's drumset Fripp siting and Earthworks bootlegs Fracture: Improv or one man band? News Shirt Pocket Opinions GIG REVIEW: Livid Trenchant Excrement, Bowery Ballroom 1/21/99 ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is temporarily being produced using Cheetah PRO Mailing Systems (c) Black Cat Software Factory (info at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk) ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Friday, 22 Jan 1999 01:08:53 From: DanKirkd at aol dot com Subject: NEWS: Guestbooks, DGM, Fracture and Release info ETers, I think it is important to recognize that DGM is a business and the postings in poor taste to their guestbook were not unlike graffiti inside their front door. As a business DGM needs to be concerned with what people see when they come to visit. People should keep that in mind when they suggest that if people don't like it they can simply ignore it. You wouldn't want squatters with masks on in your house, DGM kindly put up with theirs for much longer than any reasonable business would. We did not like shutting the guestbook down, but frankly, right now, we had little alternative. Who knows - maybe we'll find a way to revive it. Dave from Quebec, asked (en Francais) about Fracture, saying that "il est pratiquement impossible que cette piece soit tout simplement ne d'une pure et simple improvisation!!!" ("It is practically impossible that this piece was simply born out of pure and simple improvisation!!!"). Well Dave, it wasn't. Fracture was a composed piece of music written by Fripp. Doesn't make it any less startling though. We keep seeing posters asking about release dates. I've tried to distill what Fripp posts in his diary, and if you go to ET Web's KC and RF Releases pages you'll see a listing of future releases at the bottom of the pages. When I get news I will update the info. Dan ET Web ------------------------------ Date: Saturday, 23 Jan 1999 08:16:33 From: bforth at pacbell dot net (William Forth) Subject: GIG BIZ: Meanwhile, back in the USA... Dear ETeam, I'd like to invite you to a live performance by Ten Seconds, V2.1. Just tell the nice folks at the door that you heard about the gig from the Elephant Talk newsletter, and you'll be admitted as our guest. Wednesday, March 10, 1999 9:00 p.m. The Martini Lounge 5657 Melrose Ave. (2 blocks east of Vine Street). Hollywood, CA Tel: (323) 467-4068 Kindest regards, Bill Forth ------------------------------ Date: Friday, 22 Jan 1999 00:20:36 From: nightwatcher98 at hotmail dot com (George Khouroshvili) Subject: 8 track version of Red Hello ETers! Recently some guy has mentioned an "8 track version of RED" he purchased on vinyl in 1976. What was that? All best wishes, George ------------------------------ Date: Friday, 22 Jan 1999 10:49:53 From: pdauchy at imassa dot fr (Pierre Dauchy) Subject: French message translation For those unfortunate who do not read the French language ;-), here is a rough translation of Dave Brideau's message in ET#568. hi everybody!! sorry for those who don't understand me but you wouldn't have understood my english better, so...!! right now i'm listening to fracture!! i've always had a doubt about this piece being the outcome of pure improvisation!! is it not incredible??? was it really entirely born from improvisation or is it rather a rebuilding and recomposition of some elements which were all parts of a single improvisation??? somehow fracture would be the cleanup of a live impro!! my words will probably seem a bit simple to you and you might think I am a very recent fan who doesn't know king crimson very well simply to put you out of doubt i'll let you know thhat I own all of the studio albums, projecKt 2, a few compilations and three live albums... the night watch, absent lovers and the Epitaph boxed set!!! so i know the band and its improvisation and composition abilities very well... but dammit!! fracture!! it's est practically impossible that this piece could simply be born of plain improvisation!!! a single spurt on stage!!????? if someone can clarify the improvisation process for me... maybe I miss some of it!!???? at present i am mostly interested in live material! i own absent lovers the night watch and epitaph.. i am in search for another album!! which one should i buy first!! i would like to allow myself all of them but for now my budget does not allow it!! so according to you which one would be the best buy as live albums go?? of the ones I own absent loverx is probably my favorite for the intensity in it!! thanks for your advice and information! from quebec dave Pierre Dauchy e-mail: pdauchy at imassa dot fr phone: +33 (1) 69 88 33 69 fax: +33 (1) 69 88 33 02 IMASSA-CERMA, BP 73, 91223 Bretigny sur Orge Cedex, France ------------------------------ Date: Friday, 22 Jan 1999 22:30:56 From: evanessa at mira dot net (Evan + Vanessa Thomson) Subject: Kc for me... I was just ruminating on the controversy that became the DGM Guestbook. I don't necessarily regard myself as someone who can express themselves well... I decided however that I will try to explain what conclusions I finally came up with. KC to me is a challenge. At times I feel musically inept and completely mystified by the technical talk that some posters engage in. I am not a big fan but only in that I've only just begun and that I choose to listen gradually to what is out there. I believe in 'feelings' and intuition and when I feel ready to embrace more I go for it but I like to keep myself open to all that is available. KC continually pushes my perception of music forward... I don't always like it and at times I fight it but I always respect it. It's rare to discover a band who appeals to you on more than a superficial listening level. For me KC is like Kate Bush and Joni Mitchell... always challenging the norm, choosing to play for themselves, striving for perfection, daring to dream and then live the reality and for being honest. It's not easy to take and it's not easy to hear but there's no subterfuge. You take it and you make it yours. I just wanted to say that I try, I strive and I believe in going forward. I respect the decision to close the Guestbook and it saddens me to think that it came to this state of affairs... but then... I wasn't surprised. Good luck to Robert Fripp. Vanessa. ------------------------------ Date: Friday, 22 Jan 1999 11:37:00 From: steve dot dinsdale dot 01 at bbc dot co dot uk Subject: Sadness and Joy What a pity RF had little option but to close the DGM guestbook . I caught a bit of it the other day and was quite horrified by these abject contributions.We can only conclude that there are too many people with with too much time and not a single thing better to do. Nothing short of vandalism and sad that something with such good intention and value should be brought down to this level. The mentality of these people was possibly best summed up by the great and dearly missed Vivian Stanshall..... "If You See Something You Don't Understand, Smash It". My musical outfit `Radio Massacre International' (Check out the site 'Tron fans !) has a guestbook and we do occasionally receive admittedly less personal but similarly pointless messages such as "Your music sucks" and worse, and one can only look on in bemusement that anyone has the time and money to waste."Why Come To Boo ?" indeed. Due to a lack of personal worth projected onto the artistic endeavours of others........ frustration at being non-creative garbage in other words. In total contrast, I'd like to share a recent discovery that may have escaped people's ears, largely due to it's ridiculous rarity. CENTIPEDE 's `Septober Energy' (RCA Neon 1971) is a double album of outstanding merit. Effectively one huge piece music composed by Keith Tippett (Of early Crim fame) and deploying upwards of fifty band members and produced by Robert Fripp (who apparently didn't have time to play guitar on it as well !). It's a marvellously exuberant piece which is always fascinating and moves through different stages beautifully throughout it's duration. A positive energy radiates throughout, and features among its players Ian Carr (Nucleus),Mark Charig,Elton Dean (Soft Machine etc.), Ian MacDonald,Nick Evans and Robert Wyatt. I'm unaware of the exsistence of a CD of this and wonder if it's the kind of thing that DGM would deem appropriate to bring into the world once again. I'm lucky in that I was able to borrow a mint copy, it really does deserve to be heard,and isn't too far removed from `Lizard' and `Island' territory in many ways. Upward and Onward Steve Dinsdale ------------------------------ Date: Friday, 22 Jan 1999 06:49:02 From: markrushton at yahoo dot com (Mark Rushton) Subject: DGM guestbook closing - I'm not surprised I'm not surprised the DGM guestbook was closed down. Anybody who's been on the net for a while knows that benevolent moderators certainly win out in the long run over full freedom anarchy. Witness the demise of USENET. Fripp's learned a couple of lessons in the past year. The first was: don't necessarily go with a web host in your own country if they're not sophisticated enough to do ecommerce using a secure server (Demon.uk). The second was the guestbook. Tough lessons to learn, but he'll be smarter for it in the long run. Viva E.T. and the benevolent moderators! Mark Rushton Webmaster, Permanent Flame - The Bill Nelson Web Site http://www.billnelson.com ------------------------------ Date: Friday, 22 Jan 1999 11:35:16 From: KBrown at us dot imshealth dot com (Brown, Ken) Subject: Sean Malone/Gordian Knot/Trey Gunn Some time ago through ET I was turned on to bass player/stick man Sean Malone and his cd 'Cortlandt'. Mr. Malone was in the tech metal band Cynic, but 'Cortlandt' was very much in a fusion mode. Two guests on the cd were Reeves Gabrels and Trey Gunn. Well this year Sean is back with a new project called Gordian Knot, again featuring himself on bass and stick, as well as keys. He is joined by ex-Cynic alumni Sean Reinert on drums, two guitarist, John Myung (Dream Theater) on Stick, and Mr. Gunn on Warr! Again the music is not metalish. But seems to combine some of 80s KC with Trey's latest release. Bottom line is a very strong release, probably will be one of the best of the year! A must have for Stick/Warr-ophiles at there. But you won't find it in your local Tower! Check out http://www.jersey.net/~lasercd ------------------------------ Date: Friday, 22 Jan 1999 15:31:08 From: Gabe_Camacho at usccmail dot lehman dot com (Gabe Camacho) Subject: CD Recommendation for P2 Lovers For all of you who dig P2, you've got to hear the new Vernon Reid/Elliott Sharp/Dave Torn cd "Gtr Oblq". These 3 guys on guitars and electronics tread landscapes that are similar to some of P2's. One listen and you'll see they take it way beyond P2 in terms of influences (far more varied here, it's basically a guitar weirdness album but you get some real rock and roll, some middle eastern influences, some electronica and other interesting tidbits as reference points - not much of Fripp's patented tritone-based point of view though) and these guys know how to craft thematic development in more varied ways (they don't get stuck on grooves, they actually build up and down various themes/soundscapes/ structures leading you on a wild journey through many different places - each tune really sounds like it's coming from a COMPLETELY different place and there are some terrific citations to boot). Torn and Sharp are masters of the electronic treatment of guitar. This album, recorded live last November, is like a veritable encyclopedia of what guitar treatments are possible in a live setting. If you love P2, get this cd!!! It's on Knitting Factory records, # KFR-233 (you can get it from The Knitting Factory's website www.knittingfactory.com). ------------------------------ Date: Friday, 22 Jan 1999 12:05:26 From: ganderso at notes dot cc dot bellcore dot com (Gordon Emory Anderson) Subject: Inevitability One consequence of the guestbook (I think) was that the quality of ET seemed to go up. All of those spammy posts ended up over there, and I think what was left at ET was of a higher quality, and more focused. Perhaps we should put up a venting guestbook! As for the idea of moderation for ET, let us remember that, in a sense, it is NOT a democracy: if Toby, Dan, and whoever else [ 'Mike'...the name's 'Mike' :-) ] are going to put the time and enegy into maintaining it, then they must do so in a way that it makes it worthwhile for them to continue. Instead of bitching about "censorship", we can take it or leave it (since "it was free, fartknocker", to quote the great sage Butthead), but if we take it, then we should be thankful for whatever the hell they decide it should be (not to say some helpful criticism at times is a bad thing). I hope that a few years from now the guestbook can return. The technology may exist by then whereby a poster's email address can be verified, and that accountability alone should probably cut down a lot of noise. Meanwhile, I wouldn't get too upset at those that basically ruined it. As Bill Nelson pointed out in a post here a few issues ago, most people are probably not fully aware of what the consequences of mere words can be yet, so that such foolishness can be considered sort of inevitable growing pains as society makes a very quick and radical transition. -Emory ------------------------------ Date: Friday, 22 Jan 1999 10:27:23 From: scottst at ohsu dot edu (Scott Steele) Subject: Pre-GG&F songs; Crimson 69; Fred Duerr; communities born >I would like to find out, why on ET in a discography the >early works of Robert Fripp with bands BRAIN and LEAGUE OF >GENTELMEN are not represented? It would be very cool to listen to these songs. >Frankly, I am one who prefers to worship the old guard from >afar, mostly for two reasons. First off, the musicians these >days may not be the same musicians they were in 1969. Maybe >Foreigner has affected Ian's mind permanently, and perhaps >too much ELP and carbohydrates has forever changed the >formerly silver-larynxed Lake. The other reason is that it >would place King Crimson on the same pitch as all the other >bands who have 'reformed' (however tenuous their new tenure >may be) for reasons of nostalgia. 1. The musicians are undoubtedly different musicians now than they were then. This creates interest in that we can contrast what they do now against what they did then, not only in reviving the hits of yore or revisiting obscurities maybe even they barely remember, and any new music they might try to come up with. 2. No way Crimson 69 getting back together is anything like Bachman Turner Overdrive (as an example) getting back together. >Alternatively, you can start your own moderated list, and >moderate it more harshly than ET is. That's a possibility. I won't miss the guest book but I hope the diary doesn't go away. >By the way...again thanks to all who sent thoughts and >prayers for KC fan Fred Duerr. Thanks for passing on the good news that his recovery is progressing nicely. That is very good to hear. >King Crimson comes, King Crimson goes. We'd all rather see it come than go, we all seem to realize it's not up to us. > writing of driving in S. Utah listening to "Pie Jesu" and > getting an actual response, from someone who said he > couldn't listen to Soundscapes while driving, but it was > great during a snowstorm at his house. This may seem > egotistical, but of such sharing of experiences are > communities born. This is an example of why we're all here. This is what we're trying for. - S. np: King Crimson, "Exiles" scottst at ohsu dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Friday, 22 Jan 1999 22:15:40 From: Markrimson at aol dot com Subject: An open letter to Mr. Fripp Dear Mr. Fripp, I only recently gained access to the web a few short weeks ago. Your DGM guestbook was my first stop. I only left my name at the time because I wanted to gather my thoughts before leaving a more indelible "post". I was saddened earlier this week when I had read, in your diary, about the termination of the guestbook. I wholeheartedly understand the reasons behind your decision. I also understand you position about overzealous (overenthusiastic?) fans and responsible behavior from the audient. I have seen only one Crim show due to geographic location and the fact I wasn't old enough to attend any shows from the early 80's. I attended a performance for the THRAK work at the Will Rogers Auditorium in Dallas, TX. The opening was performed by The California Guitar Trio (whom I'd never heard of at the time) and the subsequent performance by KC left me elated and yearning to expand my own horizons in music. The only downside to the show was when KC approached the audience for the bow and some idiot threw what appeared to be a large disc (frisbee?), hitting you in the head. You turned and left the stage, the other members not really sure what was happening. My friend and I were both were worried about your condition and outraged at the assailant. There appeared to be a scuffle in the crowd from whence the disc was thrown. After about ten minutes KC graciously reappeared for an encore. At the conclusion all the members of KC stepped forward for a bow. You, however, remained at your post. I have not forgotten how you looked way back there by yourself. It was sad that you could not enjoy the evenings performance as my friend and I had (with the exception of the ufo). I believe a person should act towards a performer as if only he and the performer were there. Would you throw something at that person then? Or stick a flashing camera in their face? I'm afraid etiquette is sorely lacking at concerts nowadays or for that matter any large event. Because of people such as these I can never hope to one day walk up to you or messir Belew and just talk about guitar and music. I was taking guitar "lessons" at age fifteen. I had been listening to Rush and Asia at the time and asked my instructor about these other bands the aforementioned had played in or mentioned as inspirational. He led me to a large wooden crate filled with old lps and handed me the following. ITCOTCK, Lizard, and LTIA by KC, Welcome Back My Friends, Pictures, Tarkus, Trilogy and Brain Salad by ELP, Electric Rendezvous by Al di Meola, Close to the Edge, The Yes Album, Relayer and Drama by Yes, Days and Every Good Boy by the Moody Blues, Aqualung and Thick as a Brick by Tull, Steve Howe's two early solo albums and Blow by Blow by Mr. Beck. Needless to say I have been "ruined" ever since (ha!). Unfortunately I was away from the guitar for about ten years but have recently rediscovered the instrument and am eager to play. I am not a fan. I am an appreciator. I enjoy your work and thank you for DGM and the Collector's Club so that I can now obtain and sample music that I might otherwise never know. I also enjoy your diary at the end of the day as I unwind from school and work. I find your sense of humor contagious. I hope your wife is well soon, sir. She sounds like a lovely woman. Sincerely, Mark Williams {Markrimson at aol dot com} ------------------------------ Date: Saturday, 23 Jan 1999 13:16:36 From: rich at grasso dot com (Rich Grasso) Subject: Adrian Belew in Roland Users Group magazine Hey all. Just a heads up to let you know that there is an article about Mr. Belew in the new Roland Users Group magazine, a free magazine put out by (guess who) Roland. He mostly talks about the (Roland) V-drums. The article tends to read a bit like a V-Drum advertisement, since that's what it is, basically. worth checking out anyway... the price is right. Most music stores carry it, and there is an online version of the magazine as well (www.rolandus.com) Rich Grasso www.rich.grasso.com "add stupidity to death and taxes" ------------------------------ Date: Saturday, 23 Jan 1999 18:48:20 From: dwasser at hotmail dot com (Dan Wasser) Subject: mention of Crimson There was an article in The Washington Post on Thursday, January 21 about radio stations being created for (or being added to) the Internet. I had a bit of a chuckle when I read the opening paragraph: "Everyone knows where radio came from. Radio was tinny Top 40 blaring from cheap AM transistors, pressed to the ear. It was the electric whistle of baseball announcers calling the World Series or breathless newsmen describing Pearl Harbor burning. It was FM's early days, the static-free sound of entire King Crimson albums playing deep into the night. The events and music have changed through the decades, but radio has not." If you want to read the entire article by Frank Ahrens, go http://search.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/1999-01/21/047l-012199-idx.html Dan ------------------------------ Date: Saturday, 23 Jan 1999 22:45:52 From: DANNYSTAMPER at webtv dot net (DANNY STAMPER) Subject: THE 90'S CRIM I know it has never been a common practice for the Crimson King to dwell on the past, but I would LOVE to hear the 90's King Crimson to perform songs such as "Exiles", "Easy Money", "Starless", "The Night Watch", etc. The way these songs were meant to be heard. Danny ------------------------------ Date: Sunday, 24 Jan 1999 05:32:55 From: CraigWinter at webtv dot net (Craig Winter) Subject: Closing of the Guestbook January 19th will indeed be remembered as a sad day for many of us that have lost such a unique opportunity. But Robert is wrong, we do not all lose. Those whose hatred and intolerance had to find an outlet used the Guestbook as a convenient vehicle for spitting out their bile, and they are rewarded by the result. When you wince or retreat, they have won. They will now simply move to another opportunity to disrupt and destroy, having taken satisfaction that it is their actions that have silenced the Guestbook. It is the innocent who lose. ------------------------------ Date: Sunday, 24 Jan 1999 11:41:48 From: Bknt at aol dot com Subject: The Kvetchbook of Norbert Fragg Norbert Fragg: the Kvetchbook Dear Team, While clambering about the ruins of Asbury Park, New Jersey, searching for soul among the greasy nightclubs that launched the careers of immortal (well, they're not dead yet) American beach blues rockers Bruce Springsten and Southside Johnny and the Asbury Jukes, I discovered, nestled in a tumbled barrow of rancid beer and coagulated salt water taffy behind a shuttered club named the Stoned Phoney, a floppy disc that, though it refused to flop, revealed, upon insertion into my palpitating laptop, what appeared to be excerpts from the guestbook, or Kvetchbook, from the website of Norbert Fragg, that charmless but not harmless guitarist whose prodigal retro psychedelic ensemble, Bing Crosby, not only recorded a live album in Asbury Park, released, on subsequent recordings, those landmarks of pop tune rintintinabulation the Pincer, Fred, and the salubriously depressing salute to aging ethnic chanteuses, Ima Dinah Shore. There, included with a program for de-Fragging a hard drive, were postings so vital for the understanding of the place, role and expectations imposed upon the devious artist and his co-dependent recording company seeking to thrive in a world where "ethics is just another word for nothing left to lose," I just had to post them, post haste. I have deleted the poster's names and e-mail addresses because, well, we KNOW who these people are. Dear Norbert, May I call you Norbert? I enjoy demeaning people who are more famous than I am by referring to them by their first names, implying a level of intimacy exists between myself and them, that, though fictious, tends to make me bloat, swell and release piquant pheremonically-enhanced aromas that never fail to attract females whom I quickly learn to despise when they won't hold my big toe 'til I have to go (that's an extremely obscure Captain Beefheart allusion that you, who represent to me the ultimate in penultimate quintessential musical melancholy, caught). The music of Bing Crosby, and its subsequent refried avatars, Sing Frampon, Cringe Plumpton, Bun Wonder and Ding Nixon, has been so important to me at every possible stage of my life that, after I get to know a woman, I offer to tattoo your album covers on their delightfully decadent... (Snip) Mr. Fragg, I am calling you Mr. Fragg because I know a thing or two about esoteric mysticism and sophistic logic and I found a tautological error in your cappucino-fueled diary about the relationship between your doctrine of proper audiation and the spiritual iconography pertaining to the Analgram of J.I. Kerchief. While my posting has absolutely nothing to do with music, it does provide me with an opportunity to waste your time...('S'nough) Dear Lowest Form of Life, You miserable cheating exploitative thieving hypocritic slime-ball! I ordered a signed edition of Fraggattack and not only did it arrive unsigned, but the poster had a teeny, tiny wrinkle that made it impossible for me to be certain, from the fingering positions, if it is was you or Out Trey playing the discombobulato on Rupture. It's bad enough that you REFUSED to autograph my counterfeit Bing Crosby T-shirt, which so depressed my pet rabbit (you're not the only one with a bun, son) that it won't even leap when I dangle a carrot on a stick, but to entice an innocent, gullible, easily victimized fan who only wants to make you the EXACT CENTER OF HIS UNIVERSE by employing vicious, bait-and-switch tactics, well, I'm writing to my Congressman, I'm writing to the U.S. Consumer Fraud Division, I'm writing to Santa Claus...(snap) Dear Fraggmeister, May we call you Fraggmeister? We like demeaning antique axe-Nazis we don't respect but want to exploit because we're radio and, if you're radio, musicians are meat that you can chew and screw and grind up for glue. Seriously, though, as the only non-commerical (that means the only people we advertise are ourselves) alternative music outlet at Dismal Seepage University we like to suck the guts out of pathetic fools who think their junky garbage is worth spewing upon the airwaves. We're a college radio station and we want you to send us promotional copies of all your recordings so we can ridicule them on the air, melt them in the snack bar microwave oven, or resell them at a used CD shop for tunes we really want. You'd better send them to us, and have your local promo man send a limo for us to take us to your concert at Sandford W. Mallowmar Hall, or we will not only not play your music on the air but we'll tell all our friends that we met you and you're a silly old boofter... (crackle) Fragg, I'm calling you Fragg because your first album, In the Dock with the Dreadful Ding, was perfect for listening to after swallowing ten Darvons, but everything you've done since then is so bad it makes me sit here picking my nose (nose rose goes slow--hahahaha!) and hate you--really hate you, because I ripped off a used promo of Sometimes God Snores from the Dismal Seepage University CD-Xchange and it's ROOOLLY AWFUL DOOD and NOTHING like the stuff you were doing 30 years ago and I'm really, really mad that you won't do what I like because, after all, I paid $4 for In the Dock 30 years ago, when $4 was A LOT OF MONEY and you owe me and I own you and you're going to justify my existence by making me happy or I'm going to keep posting to this guestbook because, even though you SOLD OUT years ago, I haven't, and I know what's right and I'm not going to stop bothering you until you put your first band back together and-- (pop!) Mr. Norbert Fragg was unavailable for comment. Bill Kent ------------------------------ Date: Sunday, 24 Jan 1999 22:45:01 From: CraigWinter at webtv dot net (Craig Winter) Subject: Belew/Benigni Am I the only one who sees a resemblance between Adrian Belew and Roberto Benigni? ------------------------------ Date: Monday, 25 Jan 1999 00:06:58 From: mcgreivey at redcreek dot net (John McGreivey) Subject: >je suis a l'instant en train d'ecouter fracture!! j'ai >toujours eu un doute que cette piece soit le fruit d'une >pure improvisation!! n'est-ce pas incroyable??? est-elle >vraiment entierement nee d'une improvisation ou il sagit >plutot d'une reconstitution et une recomposition de certains >elements qui ont tous fait faitpartie d'une meme >improvisation??? en quelque soret fracture serait la >retouche d'une impro en spectacle!! In partial answer to your question: Fripp, in the notes to 4cd "Great Deceiver" live set, wrote: "...Provided everyone kew the map to the pieces--what they would play if they were playing their part, and where everyone else would be if they were playing thiers--in priciple anyone could play anything. Sometimes they did. In practice, "Fracture" was pretty set for guitar, but the rhythm section was free to move...." ------------------------------ Date: Monday, 25 Jan 1999 03:18:30 From: mil at execpc dot com (Mr. X) Subject: Central Park-Bruford's drumset Hi, I am writing to also suggest that RF release the Central Park concert, although from what I have heard it probably will not be. I have a recording of the Central Park 7/1/74 show, and it would be great to see out on CD. Although their performance has flaws, one can really hear and feel the energy. I also wanted to clarify the exact drum set up Bill Bruford had in the 1972-74 version of the band. I am not really a Bruford fan, but do know what he used back then. Most of the drums he used were by a company called Hayman. They were a British company and were very unique in their sound, hence BB's unusual and unique tom tom tonal characteristics. I myself own a set of these drums and they have remarkable individuality. He had 8"x12" and 9"x13" tom toms,and two floor toms-14"x14" and 16"x16". These drums were a wood finished set made of teakwood and were very rare-Hayman made less than 60 sets with this finish. He also had a maple finished 9x13 tom tom as part of this set up. And lastly, his tom toms were augmented by a 9x10 Premier single headed tom. His bass drum was a white colored 14"x22" Ludwig. His snare drum at this time was a Ludwig 6 1/2" x 14" Supersensitive-it is an all metal snare, and this particular model is capable of great crispness and clarity. His ride cymbal was a Paiste 20" Formula 602 sizzle medium ride. His hi hats were Paiste 2002 15" Sound Edge. His crashes included a 16" Paiste Formula 602 crash, a Paiste 16" 2002 crash and a Paiste 17" Formula 602 medium. His hardware was a combination of Ludwig Atlas and Premier Lokfast. Around early 1974, he then went to a smaller jazz style set-same 14"x22" Ludwig bass drum, a wood finished Hayman 8"x12" tom tom and a white colored Hayman 14"x14" floor tom, same ride cymbal and hi hats, and 2 crash cymbals. It is interesting to note how BB would mix different brands of drums and finishes; to most drummers, doing this is strictly verboten. I feel that a drummer should use whatever it takes to get the sound they want. In Brufords case, he succeeded very well. Hope this helps shed some light on BB's set up. Regards, Milo Sekulovich ------------------------------ Date: Monday, 25 Jan 1999 10:38:59 From: spike at starrstuff dot com (Spike) Subject: Fripp siting and Earthworks Hi there, I just had a Fripp siting on a Rand McNalley map; there is a Fripp Island at the southern end of South Carolina. I'm glad to read that Fred is doing well. He has to do well so that he can make it to the next ProjeKct. Which I beleive will be number 8 since the numbers seem to be doubling with each ProjeKct. About Earthworks. WOW!! We got to hear them play in Hollywood at a small place (seating for 200). They played 2 shows each night (of course we stayed for both). I can't believe the second show was not sold out! What's wrong with you people? They were terrific playing music from old Earthworks, If Summer Had It's Ghosts, and new material from the upcoming Earthworks CD in March. This world needs another Earthworks CD (well actually we need more). Bill has been very busy, I hope he stays that way. Take it easy, Spike - Life's a blast, let's explode! ------------------------------ Date: Monday, 25 Jan 1999 09:00:41 From: jaxlad at hotmail dot com (Jon Benfield) Subject: bootlegs Here is part of a transcript from the "Rockline" radio program with RUSH. These are Geddy Lee's thoughts on boot legging... A stance Robert Fripp might find interesting. Bill - I'll just get right into the questions then. I've got a series of live Rush bootlegs from Signals tour, Grace Under Pressure, I was wondering, first question, how do you feel about these Rush bootlegs that are out there, because I really like a lot of them. BC - OK, first question. Geddy Lee - OK, that's a tough question because I can't blame a fan for wanting a bootleg. At the same time, I spend a year and a half trying to make a live record as perfect and sonically as I could, just to find out that all those songs are already out there on some bootleg that was recorded with one microphone with the guy standing in the middle of the venue, so I have mixed feelings about it. You know, I was a fan and can't say I had a big bootleg collection but I did have one or two of them so I would say I'm kind of torn about the whole idea. BC - And people will bootleg anything, we found out that last week's Rockline with Boston is now available on CD as a bootleg, so there you go. And your second question Bill - Bill - Don't get me wrong, I own the rest of your stuff that you recorded in the studio - GL - Actually, you know, that's a very good point because I don't think there's a fan, a lot of people say 'It takes away from record sales' but I think you made the best point because the fact is that any fan who buys a bootleg is still going to buy your record. So, who is it harming? That's the other side of the coin. ------------------------------ Date: Monday, 25 Jan 1999 17:55:04 From: machinehead71 at hotmail dot com (Alex *) Subject: Fracture: Improv or one man band? After reading Dave Brideau's post, it raised a long answer-less question for me... Is Fracture an Improv... I heard it was... Then I thought it was so well structured that it couldn't be an imporv then: I realised that only Fripp was credited for that song... Now I seriously doubt this is an improv... Unless Fripp is a one man band... Who plays every instrument at once!!! (Eat your heart out Mike Oldfield...) ------------------------------ Date: Monday, 25 Jan 1999 22:42:09 From: artshop at artist-shop dot com (Gary Davis) Subject: News Hi, folks: The latest Artist Shop newsletter is out and you'll find it in its entirety at . Here are some excerpts you'll appreciate. The latest issue of Expose is now out! 80 pages and stuffed with information, as always. Among the highlights of the new issue is: Interviews: - David Cross (ex-King Crimson violinist now enjoying a successful solo career), Liquid Tension Experiment has been making some very rare appearances. One still to come is: Monday, February 1st. The Roxy Los Angeles, Ca Other gig info you will find on the website include the California Guitar Trio and Tony Geballe. I think this has been in ET already, so I won't repeat it, but if any of you missed it the first time around, you'll find the dates posted at . On our import pre-order page you'll find the following from Mrs. Fripp. TOYAH-ANTHEM + 6 Reissue of the hit British pop vocalist's 1981 album for the Safari label, complete with the CD-ROM video to Godley & Creme's clip for 'I Want To Be Free' added, as well as six undisclosed bonus audio tracks that are on disc for the first time. TOYAH-CHANGELING + 7 Reissue of '80s album, complete with a CD-ROM video of Godley & Creme's clip for 'Thunder In The Mountains' and seven undisclosed bonus audio tracks that are on disc for the first time. And speaking of forthcoming imports, those Japanese remasters of the King Crimson catalog are slated to come out in February. If you've any interest in these, you should get them quick as they're special editions limited to the initial pressing! In our IRC section, I've finally got the chat logs from our Peter Hammill and Bill Nelson chats up, both of which are linked from . I'd also like to take a moment to mention The Artist Shop's co-host in these chats, Talk City. Talk City has recently started a new channel on their server called <#Music-Progressive>. The server is at . I strongly recommend you all check it out whenever you get a chance. Also we'll make it a practice to meet there after the IRC special events so that progressive chat can continue. Gary ************************************************************** Gary Davis The Artist Shop The Other Road http://www.artist-shop.com artshop at artist-shop dot com phone: 330-929-2056 fax:330-945-4923 SUPPORT THE INDEPENDENT ARTIST!!! ************************************************************** Check out the latest Artist Shop newsletter at http://www.artist-shop.com/news.htm ------------------------------ Date: Monday, 25 Jan 1999 20:05:35 From: basilej at yahoo dot com (Joseph Basile) Subject: Shirt Pocket Opinions Hi ETers, Miss the Guess Book some. Just grateful we didn't loss the Diary or ET! Moderation is alway needed..... in public. Bill Forth the gifted muscian of Ten Seconds fame said it best, "The fate of the Guest Book is a pity, but, the bottom line for me is, if you're a guest, behave like one. I think Robert did the right thing."- Bill Forth I hope he doesn't mind me using his expressions.. Thinking of Ten Seconds, this is probably my only disapointment with SOMETIMES GOD SMILE. There is no Bill Forth and/or Ten Seconds. As in the above paragraph, I am grateful for this jem. Love the flow! Can't get it out of my CD player or my head! Enjoyed the Guitar Player article on Crimson, mainly on Bop-pin Bobby. Knew most of the info,but it was a tribute writting on the band. Very well done. Would have never looked for this if it wasn't for an ET post, or knew most of the info! Thanks ET and Eters! Warmly, Joe ------------------------------ Date: Friday, 22 Jan 1999 11:18:27 From: crv1 at is2 dot nyu dot edu (Chris Van Valen) Subject: GIG REVIEW: Livid Trenchant Excrement, Bowery Ballroom 1/21/99 Hi, EYMs(&Ws) Let me preface my negative review by saying I love the LTE album alot. Not as much as B.L.U.E., but alot. The tickets were for a 9:00 pm show, doors at 8:00. I arrived at about 7:45, and it was raining, so they were already letting people in, which was cool. I had never been to this place(although I only live about 5 blocks away from it). When you enter the place they herd you like cattle downstairs into a dark barroom to drink and wait for entrance into the main room. The crowd was, as expected, Earnest Young Men with less than a dozen women(including the bartender and the coat checker). They let people upstairs to the Ballroom at about 8:10. I was about 5 feet from the stage dead center. Unfortunately, there was a Jaegermeister fueled moron a little behind me who was bellowing, "FUNK FINGERS!!!" at top volume over and over and over, which was tolerable as he was chilled out by his pals after about ten minutes. Time then ground to a standstill. 9:00 came and went Then 9:10....9:20....9:40. I mean, Christ, I have a day job! They finallly hit the stage at 9:50. On with the show.... My first impression was "This is way too loud." I go to alot of gigs and usually stand or sit very close to the front. P2, BLUE, Soundscapes, Keneally, whatever. I have never felt actual pain in my ears(with plugs) until last night. After about five minutes of the first number, I worked my way half way toward the back. The sound was still bone rattling. I ended up standing by the back door. The whole show, with the exception of TL and, to a lesser extent, keyboardist Jordan Rudess, was an exercise in excess. If I wanted to see a night of guitar shredding, I'd go see a Steve Vai show. Guitarist John Petrucci played to an audience which seemed to want(and got) the Guitar God pose. Technical ecstasy with no heart. Drummer Mike Portnoy played with a lot of ability but with a glaring lack of finesse. Does anyone really need eleven cymbals? In the middle of the show(I assume), Portnoy and Levin left the stage and Petrucci and Rudess had a duet. It started as a nice, relaxed soulful piece with Rudess playng the theme and Petrucci playing a good melody line. This went on for a while, but it was too good to last. He began shredding again and ruined the highlight of the show for me. Totally inappropriate. Next was a duet between Levin and Portnoy which was somewhat better and more controlled, with Portnoy showing a little restraint. Tony played only Stick while I was there. After about forty-five or so minutes I left, greatly disapointed and slightly slack. I may get flamed for this, but these are my views and I'll stick to them. CV If you have an unpleasant nature and dislike people this is no obstacle to work. -- J.G. Bennett And it's potato, potato, potato. -- Mike Keneally ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #569 ********************************