Elephant Talk #569 (as text)

26 January 1999

Date: Friday, 22 Jan 1999 01:08:53
From: DanKirkd at aol dot com
Subject: NEWS: Guestbooks, DGM, Fracture and Release info

I think it is important to recognize that DGM is a business
and the postings in poor taste to their guestbook were not
unlike graffiti inside their front door.  As a business DGM
needs to be concerned with what people see when they come to
visit.  People should keep that in mind when they suggest
that if people don't like it they can simply ignore it.  You
wouldn't want squatters with masks on in your house, DGM
kindly put up with theirs for much longer than any
reasonable business would.  We did not like shutting the
guestbook down, but frankly, right now, we had little
alternative.  Who knows - maybe we'll find a way to revive

Dave from Quebec, asked (en Francais) about Fracture, saying
that "il est pratiquement impossible que cette piece soit
tout simplement ne d'une pure et simple improvisation!!!"
("It is practically impossible that this piece was simply
born out of pure and simple improvisation!!!").  Well Dave,
it wasn't. Fracture was a composed piece of music written by
Fripp.  Doesn't make it any less startling though.

We keep seeing posters asking about release dates.  I've
tried to distill what Fripp posts in his diary, and if you
go to ET Web's KC and RF Releases pages you'll see a listing
of future releases at the bottom of the pages.  When I get
news I will update the info.

ET Web

Date: Saturday, 23 Jan 1999 08:16:33
From: bforth at pacbell dot net (William Forth)
Subject: GIG BIZ: Meanwhile, back in the USA...
Dear ETeam,

I'd like to invite you to a live performance by Ten Seconds,
V2.1. Just tell the nice folks at the door that you heard
about the gig from the Elephant Talk newsletter, and you'll
be admitted as our guest.

Wednesday, March 10, 1999 9:00 p.m.

The Martini Lounge
5657 Melrose Ave. (2 blocks east of Vine Street).
Hollywood, CA
Tel: (323) 467-4068

Kindest regards,
Bill Forth

Date: Friday, 22 Jan 1999 00:20:36
From: nightwatcher98 at hotmail dot com (George Khouroshvili)
Subject: 8 track version of Red
Hello ETers!

Recently some guy has mentioned an "8 track version of RED"
he purchased on vinyl in 1976. What was that?

All best wishes,

Date: Friday, 22 Jan 1999 10:49:53
From: pdauchy at imassa dot fr (Pierre Dauchy)
Subject: French message translation
For those unfortunate who do not read the French language
;-), here is a rough translation of Dave Brideau's message
in ET#568.

hi everybody!!

sorry for those who don't understand me but you wouldn't
have understood my english better, so...!!

right now i'm listening to fracture!!   i've always had a
doubt about this piece being the outcome of pure
improvisation!! is it not incredible???   was it really
entirely born from improvisation or is it rather a
rebuilding and recomposition of some elements which were all
parts of a single improvisation???   somehow fracture would
be the cleanup of a live impro!!

my words will probably seem a bit simple to you and you
might think I am a very recent fan who doesn't know king
crimson very well simply to put you out of doubt i'll let
you know thhat I own all of the studio albums, projecKt 2, a
few compilations and three live albums... the night watch,
absent lovers and the Epitaph boxed set!!!  so i know the
band and its improvisation and composition abilities very
well... but dammit!! fracture!!  it's est practically
impossible that this piece could simply be born of plain
improvisation!!! a single spurt on stage!!?????   if someone
can clarify the improvisation process for me... maybe I miss
some of it!!????

at present i am mostly interested in live material!  i own
absent lovers the night watch and epitaph.. i am in search
for another album!! which one should i buy first!!  i would
like to allow myself all of them but for now my budget does
not allow it!! so according to you which one would be the
best buy as live albums go??   of the ones I own absent
loverx is probably my favorite for the intensity in it!!

thanks for your advice and information!
from quebec

Pierre Dauchy                  e-mail:   pdauchy at imassa dot fr
phone: +33 (1) 69 88 33 69     fax:      +33 (1) 69 88 33 02
IMASSA-CERMA, BP 73, 91223 Bretigny sur Orge Cedex, France

Date: Friday, 22 Jan 1999 22:30:56
From: evanessa at mira dot net (Evan + Vanessa Thomson)
Subject: Kc for me...
I was just ruminating on the controversy that became the DGM
Guestbook. I don't necessarily regard myself as someone who
can express themselves well... I decided however that I will
try to explain what conclusions I finally came up with.

KC to me is a challenge.  At times I feel musically inept
and completely mystified by the technical talk that some
posters engage in.  I am not a big fan but only in that I've
only just begun and that I choose to listen gradually to
what is out there.  I believe in 'feelings' and intuition
and when I feel ready to embrace more I go for it but I like
to keep myself open to all that is available.

KC continually pushes my perception of music forward... I
don't always like it and at times I fight it but I always
respect it.  It's rare to discover a band who appeals to you
on more than a superficial listening level.

For me KC is like Kate Bush and Joni Mitchell... always
challenging the norm, choosing to play for themselves,
striving for perfection, daring to dream and then live the
reality and for being honest.  It's not easy to take and
it's not easy to hear but there's no subterfuge.  You take
it and you make it yours.

I just wanted to say that I try, I strive and I believe in
going forward.  I respect the decision to close the
Guestbook and it saddens me to think that it came to this
state of affairs... but then... I wasn't surprised.  Good
luck to Robert Fripp.


Date: Friday, 22 Jan 1999 11:37:00
From: steve dot dinsdale dot 01 at bbc dot co dot uk
Subject: Sadness and Joy
What a pity RF had little option but to close the DGM
guestbook . I caught a bit of it the other day and was quite
horrified by these abject contributions.We can only conclude
that there are too many people with with too much time and
not a single thing better to do. Nothing short of vandalism
and sad that something with such good intention and value
should be brought down to this level. The mentality of these
people was possibly best summed up by the great and dearly
missed Vivian Stanshall..... "If You See Something You Don't
Understand, Smash It". My musical outfit `Radio Massacre
International' (Check out the site 'Tron fans !) has a
guestbook and we do occasionally receive admittedly less
personal but similarly pointless messages such as "Your
music sucks" and worse, and one can only look on in
bemusement that anyone has the time and money to waste."Why
Come To Boo ?" indeed. Due to a lack of personal worth
projected onto the artistic endeavours of others........
frustration at being non-creative garbage in other words.

In total contrast, I'd like to share a recent discovery that
may have escaped people's ears, largely due to it's
ridiculous rarity. CENTIPEDE 's `Septober Energy' (RCA Neon
1971) is a double album of outstanding merit. Effectively
one huge piece music composed by Keith Tippett (Of early
Crim fame) and deploying upwards of fifty band members and
produced by Robert Fripp (who apparently didn't have time to
play guitar on it as well !). It's a marvellously exuberant
piece which is always fascinating and moves through
different stages beautifully throughout it's duration. A
positive energy radiates throughout, and features among its
players Ian Carr (Nucleus),Mark Charig,Elton Dean (Soft
Machine etc.), Ian MacDonald,Nick Evans and Robert Wyatt.

I'm unaware of the exsistence of a CD of this and wonder if
it's the kind of thing that DGM would deem appropriate to
bring into the world once again. I'm lucky in that I was
able to borrow a mint copy, it really does deserve to be
heard,and isn't too far removed from `Lizard' and `Island'
territory in many ways.

Upward and Onward

Steve Dinsdale

Date: Friday, 22 Jan 1999 06:49:02
From: markrushton at yahoo dot com (Mark Rushton)
Subject: DGM guestbook closing - I'm not surprised
I'm not surprised the DGM guestbook was closed down.
Anybody who's been on the net for a while knows that
benevolent moderators certainly win out in the long run over
full freedom anarchy.  Witness the demise of USENET.

Fripp's learned a couple of lessons in the past year.  The
first was: don't necessarily go with a web host in your own
country if they're not sophisticated enough to do ecommerce
using a secure server (Demon.uk).  The second was the
guestbook.  Tough lessons to learn, but he'll be smarter for
it in the long run.

Viva E.T. and the benevolent moderators!

Mark Rushton
Webmaster, Permanent Flame - The Bill Nelson Web Site

Date: Friday, 22 Jan 1999 11:35:16
From: KBrown at us dot imshealth dot com (Brown, Ken)
Subject: Sean Malone/Gordian Knot/Trey Gunn
Some time ago through ET I was turned on to bass
player/stick man Sean Malone and his cd 'Cortlandt'. Mr.
Malone was in the tech metal band Cynic, but 'Cortlandt' was
very much in a fusion mode. Two guests on the cd were Reeves
Gabrels and Trey Gunn.

Well this year Sean is back with a new project called
Gordian Knot, again featuring himself on bass and stick, as
well as keys. He is joined by ex-Cynic alumni Sean Reinert
on drums, two guitarist, John Myung (Dream Theater) on
Stick, and Mr. Gunn on Warr! Again the music is not
metalish. But seems to combine some of 80s KC with Trey's
latest release.

Bottom line is a very strong release, probably will be one
of the best of the year! A must have for Stick/Warr-ophiles
at there. But you won't find it in your local Tower! Check
out http://www.jersey.net/~lasercd

Date: Friday, 22 Jan 1999 15:31:08
From: Gabe_Camacho at usccmail dot lehman dot com (Gabe Camacho)
Subject: CD Recommendation for P2 Lovers
For all of you who dig P2, you've got to hear the new Vernon
Reid/Elliott Sharp/Dave Torn cd "Gtr Oblq".

These 3 guys on guitars and electronics tread landscapes
that are similar to some of P2's.

One listen and you'll see they take it way beyond P2 in
terms of influences (far more varied here, it's basically a
guitar weirdness album but you get some real rock and roll,
some middle eastern influences, some electronica and other
interesting tidbits as reference points - not much of
Fripp's patented tritone-based point of view though) and
these guys know how to craft thematic development in more
varied ways (they don't get stuck on grooves, they actually
build up and down various themes/soundscapes/ structures
leading you on a wild journey through many different places
- each tune really sounds like it's coming from a COMPLETELY
different place and there are some terrific citations to

Torn and Sharp are masters of the electronic treatment of
guitar.  This album, recorded live last November, is like a
veritable encyclopedia of what guitar treatments are
possible in a live setting.

If you love P2, get this cd!!!

It's on Knitting Factory records, # KFR-233 (you can get it
from The Knitting Factory's website www.knittingfactory.com).

Date: Friday, 22 Jan 1999 12:05:26
From: ganderso at notes dot cc dot bellcore dot com (Gordon Emory Anderson)
Subject: Inevitability
One consequence of the guestbook (I think) was that the
quality of ET seemed to go up. All of those spammy posts
ended up over there, and I think what was left at ET was of
a higher quality, and more focused.  Perhaps we should put
up a venting guestbook!

As for the idea of moderation for ET, let us remember that,
in a sense, it is NOT a democracy: if Toby, Dan, and whoever

[ 'Mike'...the name's 'Mike' :-) ]

are going to put the time and enegy into maintaining it,
then they must do so in a way that it makes it worthwhile
for them to continue. Instead of bitching about
"censorship", we can take it or leave it (since "it was
free, fartknocker", to quote the great sage Butthead), but
if we take it, then we should be thankful for whatever the
hell they decide it should be (not to say some helpful
criticism at times is a bad thing).

I hope that a few years from now the guestbook can return.
The technology may exist by then whereby a poster's email
address can be verified, and that accountability alone
should probably cut down a lot of noise. Meanwhile, I
wouldn't get too upset at those that basically ruined it. As
Bill Nelson pointed out in a post here a few issues ago,
most people are probably not fully aware of what the
consequences of mere words can be yet, so that such
foolishness can be considered sort of inevitable growing
pains as society makes a very quick and radical transition.


Date: Friday, 22 Jan 1999 10:27:23
From: scottst at ohsu dot edu (Scott Steele)
Subject: Pre-GG&F songs; Crimson 69; Fred Duerr; communities born
>I would like to find out, why on ET in a discography the
>early works of Robert Fripp with bands BRAIN and LEAGUE OF
>GENTELMEN are not represented?

It would be very cool to listen to these songs.

>Frankly, I am one who prefers to worship the old guard from
>afar, mostly for two reasons. First off, the musicians these
>days may not be the same musicians they were in 1969. Maybe
>Foreigner has affected Ian's mind permanently, and perhaps
>too much ELP and carbohydrates has forever changed the
>formerly silver-larynxed Lake. The other reason is that it
>would place King Crimson on the same pitch as all the other
>bands who have 'reformed' (however tenuous their new tenure
>may be) for reasons of nostalgia.

1.  The musicians are undoubtedly different musicians now
    than they were then.  This creates interest in that we
    can contrast what they do now against what they did
    then, not only in reviving the hits of yore or
    revisiting obscurities maybe even they barely remember,
    and any new music they might try to come up with.

2.  No way Crimson 69 getting back together is anything like
    Bachman Turner Overdrive (as an example) getting back

>Alternatively, you can start your own moderated list, and
>moderate it more harshly than ET is.

That's a possibility.  I won't miss the guest book but I
hope the diary doesn't go away.

>By the way...again thanks to all who sent thoughts and
>prayers for KC fan Fred Duerr.

Thanks for passing on the good news that his recovery is
progressing nicely.  That is very good to hear.

>King Crimson comes, King Crimson goes.

We'd all rather see it come than go, we all seem to realize
it's not up to us.

> writing of driving in S. Utah listening to "Pie Jesu" and
> getting an actual response, from someone who said he
> couldn't listen to Soundscapes while driving, but it was
> great during a snowstorm at his house. This may seem
> egotistical, but of such sharing of experiences are
> communities born.

This is an example of why we're all here.  This is what
we're trying for. - S.

np:  King Crimson, "Exiles"
scottst at ohsu dot edu

Date: Friday, 22 Jan 1999 22:15:40
From: Markrimson at aol dot com
Subject: An open letter to Mr. Fripp
Dear Mr. Fripp,  I only recently gained access to the web a
few short weeks ago.  Your DGM guestbook was my first stop.
I only left my name at the time because I wanted to gather
my thoughts before leaving a more indelible "post". I was
saddened earlier this week when I had read, in your diary,
about the termination of the guestbook.  I wholeheartedly
understand the reasons behind your decision.  I also
understand you position about overzealous
(overenthusiastic?) fans and responsible behavior from the
audient.  I have seen only one Crim show  due to geographic
location and the fact I wasn't old enough to attend any
shows from the early 80's.  I attended a performance for the
THRAK work at the Will Rogers Auditorium in Dallas, TX.  The
opening was performed by The California Guitar Trio (whom
I'd never heard of at the time) and the subsequent
performance by KC left me elated and yearning to expand my
own horizons in music.  The only downside to the show was
when KC approached the audience for the bow and some idiot
threw what appeared to be a large disc (frisbee?), hitting
you in the head.  You turned and left the stage, the other
members not really sure what was happening. My friend and I
were both were worried about your condition and outraged at
the assailant.  There appeared to be a scuffle in the crowd
from whence the disc was thrown.  After about ten minutes KC
graciously reappeared for an encore.  At the conclusion all
the members of KC stepped forward for a bow.  You, however,
remained at your post. I have not forgotten how you looked
way back there by yourself.  It was sad that you could not
enjoy the evenings performance as my friend and I had (with
the exception of the ufo).  I believe a person should act
towards a performer as if only he and the performer were
there.  Would you throw something at that person then?  Or
stick a flashing camera in their face?  I'm afraid etiquette
is sorely lacking at concerts nowadays or for that matter
any large event. Because of people such as these I can never
hope to one day walk up to you or messir Belew and just talk
about guitar and music.  I was taking guitar "lessons" at
age fifteen.  I had been listening to Rush and Asia at the
time and asked my instructor about these other bands the
aforementioned had played in or mentioned as inspirational.
He led me to a large wooden crate filled with old lps and
handed me the following.  ITCOTCK, Lizard, and LTIA by KC,
Welcome Back My Friends, Pictures, Tarkus, Trilogy and Brain
Salad by ELP, Electric Rendezvous by Al di Meola, Close to
the Edge, The Yes Album, Relayer and Drama by Yes, Days and
Every Good Boy by the Moody Blues, Aqualung and Thick as a
Brick by Tull, Steve Howe's two early solo albums and Blow
by Blow by Mr. Beck.  Needless to say I have been "ruined"
ever since (ha!). Unfortunately I was away from the guitar
for about ten years but have recently rediscovered the
instrument and am eager to play.  I am not a fan.  I am an
appreciator.  I enjoy your work and thank you for DGM and
the Collector's Club so that I can now obtain and sample
music that I might otherwise never know. I also  enjoy your
diary at the end of the day as I unwind from school and
work.  I find your sense of humor contagious.  I hope your
wife is well soon, sir. She sounds like a lovely woman.
Sincerely, Mark Williams

{Markrimson at aol dot com}

Date: Saturday, 23 Jan 1999 13:16:36
From: rich at grasso dot com (Rich Grasso)
Subject: Adrian Belew in Roland Users Group magazine
Hey all.

Just a heads up to let you know that there is an article
about Mr. Belew in the new Roland Users Group magazine, a
free magazine put out by (guess who) Roland.

He mostly talks about the (Roland) V-drums.  The article
tends to read a bit like a V-Drum advertisement, since
that's what it is, basically.

worth checking out anyway... the price is right.

Most music stores carry it, and there is an online version
of the magazine as well (www.rolandus.com)

Rich Grasso

"add stupidity to death and taxes"

Date: Saturday, 23 Jan 1999 18:48:20
From: dwasser at hotmail dot com (Dan Wasser)
Subject: mention of Crimson
There was an article in The Washington Post on Thursday,
January 21 about radio stations being created for (or being
added to) the Internet. I had a bit of a chuckle when I read
the opening paragraph:

"Everyone knows where radio came from. Radio was tinny Top
40 blaring from cheap AM transistors, pressed to the ear. It
was the electric whistle of baseball announcers calling the
World Series or breathless newsmen describing Pearl Harbor
burning. It was FM's early days, the static-free sound of
entire King Crimson albums playing deep into the night. The
events and music have changed through the decades, but radio
has not."

If you want to read the entire article by Frank Ahrens, go


Date: Saturday, 23 Jan 1999 22:45:52
From: DANNYSTAMPER at webtv dot net (DANNY STAMPER)
Subject: THE 90'S CRIM
I know it has never been a common practice for the Crimson
King to dwell on the past,  but I would LOVE to hear the
90's King Crimson to perform songs such as "Exiles", "Easy
Money",  "Starless",  "The Night Watch", etc.  The way these
songs were meant to be heard.


Date: Sunday, 24 Jan 1999 05:32:55
From: CraigWinter at webtv dot net (Craig Winter)
Subject: Closing of the Guestbook
January 19th will indeed be remembered as a sad day for many
of us that have lost such a unique opportunity.  But Robert
is wrong, we do not all lose.  Those whose hatred and
intolerance had to find an outlet used the Guestbook as a
convenient vehicle for spitting out their bile, and they are
rewarded by the result.  When you wince or retreat, they
have won. They will now simply move to another opportunity
to disrupt and destroy, having taken satisfaction that it is
their actions that have silenced the Guestbook.

It is the innocent who lose.  

Date: Sunday, 24 Jan 1999 11:41:48
From: Bknt at aol dot com
Subject: The Kvetchbook of Norbert Fragg
Norbert Fragg: the Kvetchbook

Dear Team,

While clambering about the ruins of Asbury Park, New Jersey,
searching for soul among the greasy nightclubs that launched
the careers of immortal (well, they're not dead yet)
American beach blues rockers Bruce Springsten and Southside
Johnny and the Asbury Jukes, I discovered, nestled in a
tumbled barrow of rancid beer and coagulated salt water
taffy behind a shuttered club named the Stoned Phoney, a
floppy disc that, though it refused to flop, revealed, upon
insertion into my palpitating laptop, what appeared to be
excerpts from the guestbook, or Kvetchbook, from the website
of Norbert Fragg, that charmless but not harmless guitarist
whose prodigal retro psychedelic ensemble, Bing Crosby, not
only recorded a live album in Asbury Park, released, on
subsequent recordings, those landmarks of pop tune
rintintinabulation the Pincer, Fred, and the salubriously
depressing salute to aging ethnic chanteuses, Ima Dinah

There, included with a program for de-Fragging a hard drive,
were postings so vital for the understanding of the place,
role and expectations imposed upon the devious artist and
his co-dependent recording company seeking to thrive in a
world where "ethics is just another word for nothing left to
lose," I just had to post them, post haste. I have deleted
the poster's names and e-mail addresses because, well, we
KNOW who these people are.

Dear Norbert,

May I call you Norbert? I enjoy demeaning people who are
more famous than I am by referring to them by their first
names, implying a level of intimacy exists between myself
and them, that, though fictious, tends to make me bloat,
swell and release piquant pheremonically-enhanced aromas
that never fail to attract females whom I quickly learn to
despise when they won't hold my big toe 'til I have to go
(that's an extremely obscure Captain Beefheart allusion that
you, who represent to me the ultimate in penultimate
quintessential musical melancholy, caught). The music of
Bing Crosby, and its subsequent refried avatars, Sing
Frampon, Cringe Plumpton, Bun Wonder and Ding Nixon, has
been so important to me at every possible stage of my life
that, after I get to know a woman, I offer to tattoo your
album covers on their delightfully decadent... (Snip)

Mr. Fragg,

I am calling you Mr. Fragg because I know a thing or two
about esoteric mysticism and sophistic logic and I found a
tautological error in your cappucino-fueled diary about the
relationship between your doctrine of proper audiation and
the spiritual iconography pertaining to the Analgram of J.I.
Kerchief. While my posting has absolutely nothing to do with
music, it does provide me with an opportunity to waste your

Dear Lowest Form of Life,

You miserable cheating exploitative thieving hypocritic
slime-ball! I ordered a signed edition of Fraggattack and
not only did it arrive unsigned, but the poster had a teeny,
tiny wrinkle that made it impossible for me to be certain,
from the fingering positions, if it is was you or Out Trey
playing the discombobulato on Rupture. It's bad enough that
you REFUSED to autograph my counterfeit Bing Crosby T-shirt,
which so depressed my pet rabbit (you're not the only one
with a bun, son) that it won't even leap when I dangle a
carrot on a stick, but to entice an innocent, gullible,
easily victimized fan who only wants to make you the EXACT
CENTER OF HIS UNIVERSE by employing vicious, bait-and-switch
tactics, well, I'm writing to my Congressman, I'm writing to
the U.S. Consumer Fraud Division, I'm writing to Santa

Dear Fraggmeister,

May we call you Fraggmeister? We like demeaning antique
axe-Nazis we don't respect but want to exploit because we're
radio and, if you're radio, musicians are meat that you can
chew and screw and grind up for glue. Seriously, though, as
the only non-commerical (that means the only people we
advertise are ourselves) alternative music outlet at Dismal
Seepage University we like to suck the guts out of pathetic
fools who think their junky garbage is worth spewing upon
the airwaves. We're a college radio station and we want you
to send us promotional copies of all your recordings so we
can ridicule them on the air, melt them in the snack bar
microwave oven, or resell them at a used CD shop for tunes
we really want. You'd better send them to us, and have your
local promo man send a limo for us to take us to your
concert at Sandford W. Mallowmar Hall, or we will not only
not play your music on the air but we'll tell all our
friends that we met you and you're a silly old boofter...


I'm calling you Fragg because your first album, In the Dock
with the Dreadful Ding, was perfect for listening to after
swallowing ten Darvons, but everything you've done since
then is so bad it makes me sit here picking my nose (nose
rose goes slow--hahahaha!) and hate you--really hate you,
because I ripped off a used promo of Sometimes God Snores
from the Dismal Seepage University CD-Xchange and it's
ROOOLLY AWFUL DOOD and NOTHING like the stuff you were doing
30 years ago and I'm really, really mad that you won't do
what I like because, after all, I paid $4 for In the Dock 30
years ago, when $4 was A LOT OF MONEY and you owe me and I
own you and you're going to justify my existence by making
me happy or I'm going to keep posting to this guestbook
because, even though you SOLD OUT years ago, I haven't, and
I know what's right and I'm not going to stop bothering you
until you put your first band back together and-- (pop!)

Mr. Norbert Fragg was unavailable for comment.

Bill Kent

Date: Sunday, 24 Jan 1999 22:45:01
From: CraigWinter at webtv dot net (Craig Winter)
Subject: Belew/Benigni
Am I the only one who sees a resemblance between Adrian
Belew and Roberto Benigni?

Date: Monday, 25 Jan 1999 00:06:58
From: mcgreivey at redcreek dot net (John McGreivey)
>je suis a l'instant en train d'ecouter fracture!!   j'ai
>toujours eu un doute que cette piece soit le fruit d'une
>pure improvisation!! n'est-ce pas incroyable???   est-elle
>vraiment entierement nee d'une improvisation ou il sagit
>plutot d'une reconstitution et une recomposition de certains
>elements qui ont tous fait faitpartie d'une meme
>improvisation???   en quelque soret fracture serait la
>retouche d'une impro en spectacle!!

In partial answer to your question: Fripp, in the notes to
4cd "Great Deceiver" live set, wrote:

"...Provided everyone kew the map to the pieces--what they
would play if they were playing their part, and where
everyone else would be if they were playing thiers--in
priciple anyone could play anything. Sometimes they did. In
practice, "Fracture" was pretty set for guitar, but the
rhythm section was free to move...."

Date: Monday, 25 Jan 1999 03:18:30
From: mil at execpc dot com (Mr. X)
Subject: Central Park-Bruford's drumset

I am writing to also suggest that RF release the Central
Park concert, although from what I have heard it probably
will not be.

I have a recording of the Central Park 7/1/74 show, and it
would be great to see out on CD. Although their performance
has flaws, one can really hear and feel the energy.

I also wanted to clarify the exact drum set up Bill Bruford
had in the 1972-74 version of the band. I am not really a
Bruford fan, but do know what he used back then.

Most of the drums he used were by a company called Hayman.
They were a British company and were very unique in their
sound, hence BB's unusual and unique tom tom tonal
characteristics. I myself own a set of these drums and they
have remarkable individuality. He had 8"x12" and 9"x13" tom
toms,and two floor toms-14"x14" and 16"x16". These drums
were a wood finished set made of teakwood and were very
rare-Hayman made less than 60 sets with this finish. He also
had a maple finished 9x13 tom tom as part of this set up.
And lastly, his tom toms were augmented by a 9x10 Premier
single headed tom.

His bass drum was a white colored 14"x22" Ludwig. His snare
drum at this time was a Ludwig 6 1/2" x 14"
Supersensitive-it is an all metal snare, and this particular
model is capable of great crispness and clarity. His ride
cymbal was a Paiste 20" Formula 602 sizzle medium ride. His
hi hats were Paiste 2002 15" Sound Edge.

His crashes included a 16" Paiste Formula 602 crash, a
Paiste 16" 2002 crash and a Paiste 17" Formula 602 medium.

His hardware was a combination of Ludwig Atlas and Premier

Around early 1974, he then went to a smaller jazz style
set-same 14"x22" Ludwig bass drum, a wood finished Hayman
8"x12" tom tom and a white colored Hayman 14"x14" floor tom,
same ride cymbal and hi hats, and 2 crash cymbals.

It is interesting to note how BB would mix different brands
of drums and finishes; to most drummers, doing this is
strictly verboten. I feel that a drummer should use whatever
it takes to get the sound they want. In Brufords case, he
succeeded very well. Hope this helps shed some light on BB's
set up.

Milo Sekulovich

Date: Monday, 25 Jan 1999 10:38:59
From: spike at starrstuff dot com (Spike)
Subject: Fripp siting and Earthworks
Hi there,

  I just had a Fripp siting on a Rand McNalley map; there is
a Fripp Island at the southern end of South Carolina.

  I'm glad to read that Fred is doing well. He has to do
well so that he can make it to the next ProjeKct. Which I
beleive will be number 8 since the numbers seem to be
doubling with each ProjeKct.

  About Earthworks. WOW!! We got to hear them play in
Hollywood at a small place (seating for 200). They played 2
shows each night (of course we stayed for both). I can't
believe the second show was not sold out! What's wrong with
you people? They were terrific playing music from old
Earthworks, If Summer Had It's Ghosts, and new material from
the upcoming Earthworks CD in March. This world needs
another Earthworks CD (well actually we need more). Bill has
been very busy, I hope he stays that way.

Take it easy,
Spike - Life's a blast, let's explode!

Date: Monday, 25 Jan 1999 09:00:41
From: jaxlad at hotmail dot com (Jon Benfield)
Subject: bootlegs
Here is part of a transcript from the "Rockline" radio
program with RUSH. These are Geddy Lee's thoughts on boot
legging... A stance Robert Fripp might find interesting.

Bill - I'll just get right into the questions then. I've got
a series of live Rush bootlegs from Signals tour, Grace
Under Pressure, I was wondering, first question, how do you
feel about these Rush bootlegs that are out there, because I
really like a lot of them.

BC - OK, first question.

Geddy Lee - OK, that's a tough question because I can't
blame a fan for wanting a bootleg. At the same time, I spend
a year and a half trying to make a live record as perfect
and sonically as I could, just to find out that all those
songs are already out there on some bootleg that was
recorded with one microphone with the guy standing in the
middle of the venue, so I have mixed feelings about it. You
know, I was a fan and can't say I had a big bootleg
collection but I did have one or two of them so I would say
I'm kind of torn about the whole idea.

BC - And people will bootleg anything, we found out that
last week's Rockline with Boston is now available on CD as a
bootleg, so there you go. And your second question Bill -

Bill - Don't get me wrong, I own the rest of your stuff that
you recorded in the studio -

GL - Actually, you know, that's a very good point because I
don't think there's a fan, a lot of people say 'It takes
away from record sales' but I think you made the best point
because the fact is that any fan who buys a bootleg is still
going to buy your record. So, who is it harming? That's the
other side of the coin.

Date: Monday, 25 Jan 1999 17:55:04
From: machinehead71 at hotmail dot com (Alex *)
Subject: Fracture: Improv or one man band?
After reading Dave Brideau's post, it raised a long
answer-less question for me... Is Fracture an Improv... I
heard it was... Then I thought it was so well structured
that it couldn't be an imporv then: I realised that only
Fripp was credited for that song...

Now I seriously doubt this is an improv... Unless Fripp is a
one man band... Who plays every instrument at once!!! (Eat
your heart out Mike Oldfield...)

Date: Monday, 25 Jan 1999 22:42:09
From: artshop at artist-shop dot com (Gary Davis)
Subject: News
Hi, folks:

The latest Artist Shop newsletter is out and you'll find it
in its entirety at <http://www.artist-shop.com/news.htm>.
Here are some excerpts you'll appreciate.

The latest issue of Expose
<http://www.artist-shop.com/expose.htm> is now out!  80
pages and stuffed with information, as always.  Among the
highlights of the new issue is: Interviews: - David Cross
(ex-King Crimson violinist now enjoying a successful solo

Liquid Tension Experiment has been making some very rare
appearances. One still to come is:

Monday, February 1st.
The Roxy
Los Angeles, Ca

Other gig info you will find on the website include the
California Guitar Trio and Tony Geballe.  I think this has
been in ET already, so I won't repeat it, but if any of you
missed it the first time around, you'll find the dates
posted at <http://www.artist-shop.com/discipln>.

On our import pre-order page
you'll find the following from Mrs. Fripp.

Reissue of the hit British pop vocalist's 1981 album for the
Safari label, complete with the CD-ROM video to Godley &
Creme's clip for 'I Want To Be Free' added, as well as six
undisclosed bonus audio tracks that are on disc for the
first time.

Reissue of '80s album, complete with a CD-ROM video of
Godley & Creme's clip for 'Thunder In The Mountains' and
seven undisclosed bonus audio tracks that are on disc for
the first time.

And speaking of forthcoming imports, those Japanese
remasters of the King Crimson catalog are slated to come out
in February.  If you've any interest in these, you should
get them quick as they're special editions limited to the
initial pressing!

In our IRC section, I've finally got the chat logs from our
Peter Hammill and Bill Nelson chats up, both of which are
linked from <http://www.artist-shop.com/irc>.  I'd also like
to take a moment to mention The Artist Shop's co-host in
these chats, Talk City.  Talk City has recently started a
new channel on their server called <#Music-Progressive>.
The server is at <chat.talkcity.com>.  I strongly recommend
you all check it out whenever you get a chance.  Also we'll
make it a practice to meet there after the IRC special
events so that progressive chat can continue.


Date: Monday, 25 Jan 1999 20:05:35
From: basilej at yahoo dot com (Joseph Basile)
Subject: Shirt Pocket Opinions
Hi ETers,

Miss the Guess Book some. Just grateful we didn't loss the
Diary or ET! Moderation is alway needed..... in public. Bill
Forth the gifted muscian of Ten Seconds fame said it best,
"The fate of the Guest Book is a pity, but, the bottom line
for me is, if you're a guest, behave like one. I think
Robert did the right thing."- Bill Forth

I hope he doesn't mind me using his expressions.. Thinking
of  Ten Seconds, this is probably my only disapointment with
SOMETIMES GOD SMILE. There is no Bill Forth and/or  Ten
Seconds. As in the above paragraph, I am grateful for this
jem. Love the flow! Can't get it out of my CD player or my

Enjoyed the Guitar Player article on Crimson, mainly on
Bop-pin Bobby. Knew most of the info,but it was a  tribute
writting on the band. Very well done. Would have never
looked for this if it wasn't for an ET post, or knew most of
the info! Thanks ET and Eters!


Date: Friday, 22 Jan 1999 11:18:27
From: crv1 at is2 dot nyu dot edu (Chris Van Valen)
Subject: GIG REVIEW: Livid Trenchant Excrement, Bowery Ballroom 1/21/99
Hi, EYMs(&Ws)

Let me preface my negative review by saying I love the LTE
album alot. Not as much as B.L.U.E., but alot.

The tickets were for a 9:00 pm show, doors at 8:00. I
arrived at  about 7:45, and  it was raining, so they were
already letting people in, which was cool.  I had never been
to this place(although I only live about 5 blocks away from
it). When you enter the place they herd you like cattle
downstairs into a dark barroom to drink and wait for
entrance into the main room. The crowd was,  as expected,
Earnest Young Men with less than a dozen women(including the
bartender and the coat checker).

They let people upstairs to the Ballroom at about 8:10. I
was about 5 feet from the stage dead center. Unfortunately,
there was a Jaegermeister fueled moron a little behind me
who was bellowing, "FUNK FINGERS!!!" at top volume over and
over and over, which was  tolerable as he was chilled out by
his pals after about ten minutes.

Time then ground to a standstill. 9:00 came and went Then
9:10....9:20....9:40. I mean, Christ, I  have a day  job!
They  finallly hit the stage at 9:50. On with the show....

My first impression was "This is way too loud." I go to alot
of gigs and usually stand or sit very close to the front.
P2, BLUE, Soundscapes, Keneally, whatever. I have never felt
actual pain in my ears(with plugs) until last night. After
about five minutes of the first number, I worked my way half
way toward the back. The sound was still bone rattling. I
ended up standing by the back door.

The whole show, with the exception of TL and, to a lesser
extent, keyboardist Jordan Rudess, was an exercise in
excess. If I wanted to see a night of guitar shredding, I'd
go see a Steve Vai show. Guitarist John Petrucci played to
an audience which seemed to want(and got) the Guitar God
pose. Technical ecstasy with no heart.  Drummer Mike Portnoy
played with a lot of ability but with a glaring lack of
finesse. Does anyone really need eleven cymbals?

In the middle of the show(I assume), Portnoy and Levin left
the stage and Petrucci and Rudess had a duet. It started as
a nice, relaxed soulful piece with Rudess playng the theme
and Petrucci playing a good melody line. This went on for a
while, but it was too good to last. He began shredding again
and ruined the highlight of the show for me.  Totally
inappropriate. Next was a duet between Levin and Portnoy
which was somewhat better and more controlled, with Portnoy
showing a little restraint. Tony played only Stick while I
was there. After about forty-five or so minutes I left,
greatly disapointed and slightly slack.

I may get flamed for this, but these are my views and I'll
stick to them.


If you have an unpleasant nature and dislike people
this is no obstacle to work. -- J.G. Bennett

And it's potato, potato, potato. -- Mike Keneally

Mike Stok