E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Issue Number 568 Friday, 22 January 1999 Today's Topics: NEWS: ET and the DGM Guestbook Zappa & Fripp Michael Brook DGM About early Robert Fripp's recordings Tony Levin on Saturday Night Live in 1988 BLUE on the net & ProjeKct's 30th Anniversary Quality in Public Forums Fracture!!! Guitar TABs Damage FS radio-interviews with Fripp and Bruford (not so recent ones) More Tasteless Crap Fripp taping neighbors -- Fragg posts Looking for Bruford/Moraz - Music for Piano & Drums cd Shame on us DGM Guestbook Closing quiem DGM Guestbook Cirkus DGM Guestbook Closed DGM Guest Book (ex), Guitar Just when Toby was getting some sleep... ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is temporarily being produced using Cheetah PRO Mailing Systems (c) Black Cat Software Factory (info at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk) ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Friday, 22 Jan 1999 01:53:15 From: crimson at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk (Mike Dickson) Subject: NEWS: ET and the DGM Guestbook It is with much regret that I learn of Robert's decision to shut down the DGM Guest Book. The decision is, of course, entirely his to make. As far as ET is concerned, some concern has already been expressed by a few subscribers as to both its future and its content. There are two things I'd like to make resoundingly clear to all our readers. (1) I'm sure I can speak for Dan and (in absenta) Toby when I say that we abhor the way that the guest book deteriorated and the way that certain individuals were singled out for abuse and attack. (2) If any individual feels the need to start a similar (or the same) pissing match on ET then they will be blacklisted from participation in the mailing list. We are all aware of the egalitarian nature of the internet and the freedom that brings us. However, that freedom surely also encompasses the freedom to not have to read what we won't want to see. We hope that some of the 'ET detractors' who bemoan the fact that moderation is equivalent to censorship, now see that our decision to conduct ET in this manner is vindicated. ET has been putting up with what has recently transpired on the DGM Guest Book for years, very successfully. We hope that we will continue to do so. Mike Dickson, Temporary ET Moderator ------------------------------ Date: Monday, 18 Jan 1999 16:06:23 From: Biffyshrew at aol dot com Subject: Zappa & Fripp Peter Drubetskoy wrote: >Well, answering the obscure named "#563" request if, Fripp >ever expressed his opinion on Zappa or something like that, >I do not know, but when FZ was asked about RF, he said he >had never heard of him. Zappa did not say that; it's a transcription error. What FZ actually said in the interview (which has been released on CD) was "I've never heard a Robert Fripp record." This is incorrectly transcribed in the version of the interview that is available online as "I've never heard of Robert Fripp." The "Saint Alphonzo's" Zappa site that Peter recommends is no longer being maintained and its contents are years out of date; consequently this error goes uncorrected. Your pal, Biffy the Elephant Shrew @}-`--}---- ...visit me at http://members.aol.com/biffyshrew/biffy.html ------------------------------ Date: Monday, 18 Jan 1999 17:13:28 From: drolem at videotron dot ca (Michel Drolet) Subject: Michael Brook Chris McGarel wrote: > Does anyone know where I can get the CD of Michael Brook > Live at the London Aquarium? I have a cassette copy which I > am in serious danger of wearing out. You may want to wait a bit before buying this Michael Brook cd, because 4ad are re-releasing it but this time it's a 2cd set. I don't know when it will be released, if it's not already, but I saw an ad for it in a magazine. Michel ------------------------------ Date: Monday, 18 Jan 1999 21:36:59 From: amisza at polbox dot com (Adam Miszewski) Subject: DGM it's just a complaint about the prices of new DGM discs in Poland, and the price of last KC concert in Warsaw which I heard was good and which I could not afford. Sometimes prices in Warsaw are funny, as I hear tickets for Wynton Marsalis costed nearly 40 pounds, ten times more than in Prague, music students could not be present, and Wynton said after: "the atmosphere was strange" - no comments. Good luck and thank you for 20 years of my life with your music Adam Miszewski ----------------- [ REKLAMA / ADVERTISEMENT ] ----------------- Do konca stycznia Internetowy Pakiet Biznesowy o 244PLN taniej. Szczegoly http://sklep.optimus.com.pl --------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tuesday, 19 Jan 1999 11:14:12 From: gong at ur dot rags dot ru (GENNADI A. ORLOV) Subject: About early Robert Fripp's recordings Hello, I'm from Moscow, RUSSIA. I would like to find out, why on ET in a discography the early works of Robert Fripp with bands BRAIN and LEAGUE OF GENTELMEN are not represented? LEAGUE OF GENTLEMEN Personnel incl: ROBERT FRIPP GORDON HASKELL 45s: 1.Each Little Falling Tear/And I Do Now (Columbia DB 7666) 1965 2.How Can You Tell/How Do They Know (Planet PLF 109) 1966 BRAIN Personnel: MIKE GILES PETE GILES ROBERT FRIPP 45s: 1.Nightmares In Red/Kick The Donkey (Parlophone R 5595) 1967 2.* Nightmares In Red/(Flip by different artist) (Bam-Caruso OPRA 63) 1987 *A limited edition jukebox release Somebody has these recordings? Thank You and Best Wishes to all! GENNADI ------------------------------ Date: Tuesday, 19 Jan 1999 21:01:38 From: good_king_zog at msn dot com dot au (Craig) Subject: Tony Levin on Saturday Night Live in 1988 Hello from Melbourne, Australia A recent re-run of a 1988 broadcast of Saturday Night Live, had TL playing bass as part of Robbie Robertson's backing band. If anyone is interested in a VHS-PAL copy of these 2 songs, please contact me to set up a trade. I also have other KC video, plus a bunch of Zappa & related videos. kind regards Craig Jones Ketchup Is A Vegetable! good_king_zog at msn dot com ------------------------------ Date: Tuesday, 19 Jan 1999 07:58:23 From: papendick at research dot moore dot com Subject: BLUE on the net & ProjeKct's For those who may not be aware it, there is a wonderful RealAudio concert of Bruford Levin/Upper Extremities recorded live 4/19/98 at the House of Blues in Boston. You can find it at: http://play.rbn.com/?livecon/concerts2/demand/980419brufordlevin/980419bruf ordlevin.ra There are a large number of other live shows also available http://liveconcerts.com Also, does anyone know if/when any of the other ProjeKct material will be released? I've got P2 and I believe it was in the liner notes for Absent Lovers that they mention that P1 was to be released at the end of 1998. Haven't seen or heard anything about this, but would be interested if someone has a status report on ProjeKct releases. klp ------------------------------ Date: Tuesday, 19 Jan 1999 21:24:43 From: mike at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk (Mike Dickson) Subject: 30th Anniversary Randall Hammill (randall dot hammill at snet dot net) wrote... > I am sure I will not be the only one posting my opinion > about the 30th Anniversary line-up possibilities that > Robert posted at DGM. I must admit that I read Robert's diary entry with a degree of surprise when I saw he was considering - no matter how abstract the idea may be - of either encouraging others to reform Crimson 69 or participating in KC-related activities with doyens of Crimsons past. I am sure that the Fiscally Fixated Frippster (JOKE ALERT) is not blind to the fact that he could make himself an absolute packet by reforming Crimson 69 and taking up the guitarist's stool himself, even if he only played a handful of gigs in London. Then again, what would this do to the music, or even our perception of what the band means to us? Frankly, I am one who prefers to worship the old guard from afar, mostly for two reasons. First off, the musicians these days may not be the same musicians they were in 1969. Maybe Foreigner has affected Ian's mind permanently, and perhaps too much ELP and carbohydrates has forever changed the formerly silver-larynxed Lake. The other reason is that it would place King Crimson on the same pitch as all the other bands who have 'reformed' (however tenuous their new tenure may be) for reasons of nostalgia. I don't know about anyone else, but I found the Velvet Underground's 'Redux' gigs to be almost completely depressing; and I consider them to be *the* most important band there ever was. No, even allowing others to walk on past glories would be a disastrous backward step for King Crimson in general...even if I know that I'd be there for every night egging them on. Mike Dickson, Black Cat Software Factory, Scotland ------------------------------ Date: Tuesday, 19 Jan 1999 14:05:22 From: dtodd at bbn dot com (David Todd) Subject: Quality in Public Forums Freedom has the price of eternal vigilance. Any public forum has the price of being open to the public. The unfortunate thing here is that a significant portion of the public want to talk about something you don't want to talk about, be it their desire to see a reunion, or their desire to chat about mice. Consider this scenario: You are in a restaurant, chatting with companions. As the restaurant fills, it becomes louder. You also notice that people near your are talking about the wondrous Jello they served last week. Actually try and picture yourself there. Now picture the looks on their faces if you stood up in the middle of the restaurant, called for quiet, and demanded they not talk about Jello, or anything you personally weren't interested in. More, imagine how you would feel if someone else did it. Here's the answer, in my not very humble opinion: Discrimination. Not in the "I'll not talk to him, he's not *one of us.*" form, but in the "Boring, next!" category. There is no requirement to read all of ET, or all of the guest book. You know how to do it, you have gone to loud restaurants and had a good time, I'd bet. Alternatively, you can start your own moderated list, and moderate it more harshly than ET is. Hacksaw = David Charles Todd GTEI-BBNT = Hacksaw's Employer Hacksaw's Opinions != GTEI-BBNT's Opinions Linux understands you. ------------------------------ Date: Tuesday, 19 Jan 1999 12:21:25 From: sky__13 at hotmail dot com (Dave Brideau) Subject: Fracture!!! [ I don't *think* ET insists on English, although we'd probably prefer it if possible... -- Mike ] bonjours tout le monde!! desole pour ceux qui ne me comprennent pas mais vous ne m'auriez pas mieux compris en anglais alors...!! je suis a l'instant en train d'ecouter fracture!! j'ai toujours eu un doute que cette piece soit le fruit d'une pure improvisation!! n'est-ce pas incroyable??? est-elle vraiment entierement nee d'une improvisation ou il sagit plutot d'une reconstitution et une recomposition de certains elements qui ont tous fait faitpartie d'une meme improvisation??? en quelque soret fracture serait la retouche d'une impro en spectacle!! probablement que mon propo vous paraitera un peu simple d'esprit et que vous croyer que je suis un tout jeune fan et que je ne connais pas tres tres bien king crimson mais tout simplement pour ecarte vos doutes sahezque je pocE8de la totalite des albums studio, projecKt 2, quelques compilation et trois album live... the night watch, absent lovers et le cofret C9pitaph!!! donc je connais tres bien le band et leur capacite d'improvisation et de composition... mais bon sens!! fracture!! il est pratiquement impossible que cette piece soit tout simplement ne d'une pure et simple improvisation!!! un unique jet en show!!????? si quelqu'un peux me renseigner sur le processus d'improvisation... peut etre m'en manque t-il un bout!!???? presentement je m'interesse surtout au materiel live! je possede absent lovers the night watch et epitaph.. je suis a la recherche d'un autre album!! lequel devrais-je acheter d'abord!! je voudrais bine tous me les permettre mais pour le moment le budget n'aide pas!! alors lequel pour vous serait le meilleur achat pour un album live?? de ceux que j'ai absent loverx est sans doute on prefere pour l'intensite qu' on y retrouve!! merci de vos conseil et renseignement!! from quebec dave ------------------------------ Date: Tuesday, 19 Jan 1999 17:17:45 From: Camzone at aol dot com Subject: Guitar TABs Does anyone have guitar TABs for the following Fripp sections: The Grid ~ Shapes of Sleep The opening section to "Larks' Tongues in Aspic Pt. III" Sylvian | Fripp ~ Blinding Light of Heaven (From Damage) Any help would be greatly appreciated. [E-mail replies or ET-Web submissions only, thanks -- Mike] Thanks in advance, Cameron Devlin ------------------------------ Date: Wednesday, 20 Jan 1999 02:23:32 From: MongoBoy at aol dot com Subject: Damage FS I have a copy of Sylvian/Fripp "Damage" for sale. Please contact me privately if interested. ML ------------------------------ Date: Wednesday, 20 Jan 1999 15:25:00 From: m dot vergeer at thomas dot ped dot kun dot nl (Maurice Vergeer) Subject: radio-interviews with Fripp and Bruford (not so recent ones) I remember that the dutch KRO-radio (I think) aired two interviews with Robert Fripp and Bill Bruford. I think it was in the early eighties. Both interviews were about three hours long and dealt with their careers. I remember that the interview with Robert Fripp was, at times, hilarious. Especcially when he talked about The Roches. Anyway, I wonder whether somebody has these interviews on tape or cd. I'm very interested in obtained a copy. Maurice Vergeer m dot vergeer at thomas dot ped dot kun dot nl ------------------------------ Date: Wednesday, 20 Jan 1999 10:05:53 From: Goodcraker at aol dot com Subject: More Tasteless Crap Kudos to ET management for keeping the nasty irrelevant posts off the newsletter, although some may feel this one is also irrelevant (though not nasty!) [Sorry, but our correct title is 'The ET Thought Police', please -- Mike ;-) ] It is a damn shame that the DGM posts have gotten out of hand. I have stopped reading it all together, and only check on RF's diary, news, and releases. It's kind of like shutting off the television. You can only take so much of commercials that scream in your face, aimed at the lowest common denominator. I think this is why true fans of KC and RF seem to be a rare thing. This country is slowly becoming dumber and less aware of their surroundings. Check any top ten list of money making films, music or books. A world where Paul Reiser is a best selling "author" is a sad one indeed. All you have to do is keep feeding us our cable television at a cheap price and our leaders can do whatever they want. KC fans are a brighter group. Hence their rarity. UGH. Sorry, Toby. But reading the garbage that is showing up on DGM just burns me up...like a cigarette. Hee hee. Thanks for letting me rant. T Murphy/Chicago By the way...again thanks to all who sent thoughts and prayers for KC fan Fred Duerr. In Aug of 98 Fred suffered a critical head injury, was in a coma for almost a month. It was questionable for quite some time if Fred would even survive. But now I am happy to tell you all that Fred is in heavy therapy rotation, talking, and learning to walk again. Doctors feel he has an excellent chance at full recovery, and may be home by the summer. So again..thanks for all the prayers and thoughts. Proving again why ETers are the most intelligent, thoughtful music fans out there. OK I am shutting up now and ducking back into the weeds...... ------------------------------ Date: Tuesday, 19 Jan 1999 15:01:22 From: Mike dot Heilbronner at adidasus dot com (Heilbronner, Mike I) Subject: Fripp taping neighbors -- Fragg posts 1. Someone commented on the legality of taping an argument audible through a wall of an apartment. Specifically, the poster suggested that the arguing couple had a copyright interest in the content of the discussion. My understanding of US copyright law is that this is probably not the case because the couple probably did not tape the argument -- or, in legal terms, put the argument into a tangible medium of expression (writing; taping; etc.). I believe this is a requirement under US copyright law. There were several other inaccurate generalizations and misstatements about the "fair use" doctrine, but I'll leave those up to an expert to discuss. 2. Kudos to Bill Kent for the Norbert Fragg posts. ------------------------------ Date: Wednesday, 20 Jan 1999 20:38:16 From: Len_Picott at tivoli dot com Subject: Looking for Bruford/Moraz - Music for Piano & Drums cd Hello ET'ers (and Gabe in particular) >The few recent posts offering cd copies of Bruford/Moraz's >Flags cd have reminded me of my need for a copy of their >first cd: >Music for Piano and Drums (Editions EG, EGED 33) (1983) Despite the recent offer of 'Flags' on CD, I've never seen it, nor it's predecessor (Music for Piano and Drums) on CD. I do however, have both of these excellent albums on vinyl, in excellent condition. So if anyone would like a copy, on tape or MiniDisc, mail me privately and I'm sure we can arrange some swaps. Cheers Len (please respond to len dot picott at tivoli dot com) ------------------------------ Date: Wednesday, 20 Jan 1999 17:48: From: gweimer at one dot mail dot net (Gary Weimer) Subject: Shame on us ET and the DGM diary were exciting and fresh when I first tapped in. Now, the ugly demon that is us has crept in - and for no reason that I can figure. WE have become: judgmental critical (or is it pissy?) presumptuous STUPID I can only tell my point of view - so here goes I don't idolize Robert Fripp, or King Crimson. I have always found what happens musically to be captivating. And that's it. He's not my mentor, or my friend. He has his own friends. I just like the music. I am a has-been/never-was musician. Not in the league of this, but still I paid my dues for 6 years on the road. I find everything that Robert publicly states about the music business to be true. I find his wish for privacy not offensive in the least. His personal idiosyncrasies are his - take them with the artist (they are part of him). Neil Young has some similar quirks on live performance, yet I don't like him any less for them. If Robert wants to show his enjoyment of his family, don't stand in his way (and DON'T stalk the web protesting!). It's as if we are objecting to his being a real person. King Crimson comes, King Crimson goes. It's been that way for 30 years. We're sorry to see it go; we're happy when it returns. Sit back and just wait for the next phase - whatever that may mean. We haven't been disappointed yet. Whether a band is of the caliber of KC, or some slam-bam blues grunge thing, it is the sum of all the players that determine the "sound" of band. Outside votes don't count. I think that's enough. ------------------------------ Date: Wednesday, 20 Jan 1999 19:52:44 From: PToudic at hopkinscarley dot com (Phillipe Toudic) Subject: DGM Guestbook Closing As of today, Jan. 20th, we have been evicted from the DGM Guestbook, and rightfully so. It was a grand experiment, but probably doomed from the start. I got one last post in to say thanks, and to repeat my fond request that DGM issue the Central Park and Asbury Park shows. I don't know what happened to the Guestbook postings, but they swung wildly out of control within a week or so. Up to that point there had been a few lunatics, and the odd spate of bile and vindictiveness, but sanity and civility generally prevailed. Within the last week or so, though, the Guestbook became filled with, among other spam, hateful posts attacking Fripp, Sister Fripp, and other posters. Was it just an unpredictable outpouring of chaos? An accumulation of entropy? Fripp suggests it's a reflection of the increasing visibility of DGM. Perhaps so, but it all seems awfully random. My guess is that if you leave 50 monkeys in a room with 50 typewriters, the racket they create will eventually drive you out of your mind. The Guestbook was home to more than 50 monkeys. At least now Fripp, Venal Marketing Weasel, will have more time to discover new wheezes to part gullible enthusiasts from their hard earned cash. I for one remain willing to be taken - so long as Central Park and Asbury Park remain somewhere on the list. Cheers, - Phil T. ------------------------------ Date: Thursday, 21 Jan 1999 03:21:52 From: l_snead at yahoo dot com (Larry Snead) Subject: quiem DGM Guestbook Reflecting on the insubstantiality and ephemerality of Web pseudo-communities, I sat down at my computer finally ready to start writing about my research project on individualism and virtual communities, only to discover that the only place I posted regularly had disappeared. As a part of that research, I helped create a local BBS a few years ago, before the Web killed them all off. We started with no rules, but soon learned we had to prohibit sexual content and personal attacks in public messages. It's no fun being a policeman and soon enough, we decided it wasn't worth the effort the whole thing was costing us, so we folded it. I've seen this happen so many times. So I completely understand RF's decision to close the Guestbook, he's got far more important things to worry about. I myself feel guilty for bringing up an issue that he had to take the time to respond to; I feel even worse after seeing others take up the issue for their own purposes. But it is a shame. Elephant Talk has always seemed to serve primarily a cognitive function, supplying information. The Guestbook seemed more appropriate for those random bursts of enthusiasm. I like sharing experiences of listening to the music (the climax of the improv "Some Pussyfooting" interrupts my thoughts here); writing of a spooky hike at night listening to "November Suite" and reading how one couple think it's great for sex, writing of driving in S. Utah listening to "Pie Jesu" and getting an actual response, from someone who said he couldn't listen to Soundscapes while driving, but it was great during a snowstorm at his house. This may seem egotistical, but of such sharing of experiences are communities born. At Madame Wong's in LA in 1979, RF came out to the oversized crowd, which had very nearly killed me as I went to the front door looking for the waitress with whom I'd arranged by phone for tickets, and said he would play two shows so everyone could get in. Even Flo and Eddie (Turtles/Zappa) were there. During the first show, I told my companions to be invisible to the waitresses, so we'd be served last and could stay through the second show. It was the first of many lessons in the benefits of supportive invisibility. With "Heavenly Music Corporation" playing (oh this is great when coming up out of the Painted Desert towards the heavily forested Mountain Peaks where the Hopi Gods live), I move to what I should be writing. ------------------------------ Date: Thursday, 21 Jan 1999 09:16:46 From: frankp at benfield dot com (Frank Pfau) Subject: Cirkus Hey everyone, I just read on the DGM Diary that they are finalizing artwork for "Cirkus: A Young Person's Guide to King Crimson - Live 1969-98" in two volumes: ..." Does anyone know if this will be released to the general public? Or just Club members? I'm guessing (hoping) that it will be the former, as it's not a "one show" release. Any idea on the release date? Thanks!! Frank [ I understand that this is for general release -- Mike] ------------------------------ Date: Thursday, 21 Jan 1999 07:54:19 From: Barrie dot Sillars at wireless dot comdev dot ca (Barrie Sillars) Subject: DGM Guestbook Closed Fripp has had the Guestbook at the DGM web site closed down. No wonder. Some of the postings there recently have been malicious and highly personal in nature, not only of him but his sister. What is wrong with you people. The Guestbook was an open forum available to us, which Fripp would read and respond to as appropriate. We have now lost that privilege. An open forum, such as the Guestbook by its very nature is going to attract those who feel it necessary to vent their small minded attitudes. I thought that us KC enthusiasts were better than that. Fripp, like all musicians deserves criticism for certain aspects of his work. He, like us is not perfect. Fripp's only relationship to us is as a performer, therefore as an audience we only have the right to comment on that, nothing more. Let's be a bit more responsible. Fripp has gone out of his way to be as open as possible to us as regards his work. We should respond accordingly and try to maintain his trust in us as an intelligent and critical audience. We have lost that for now. ------------------------------ Date: Thursday, 21 Jan 1999 15:33:05 From: mgb at heartlab dot com (Martin Bradburn) Subject: DGM Guest Book (ex), Guitar I find it very disconcerting that people want to vent there hostilities and ability to abuse public forums on people such as Robert and Pat Fripp. If you don't like him/her or anything they stand for/represent, Here's a novel idea, leave them the **** alone. I say it in this fashion (excuse me) because I believe people who engage in this sort of twisted behavior are above reasoning and I applaud Robert for ending it in an admirable fashion. However it makes me angry that an interesting avenue of discourse is removed by the, not even senseless (although that was prevalent) but, hostile attacks of a few miscreants. I guess I had higher hopes for the caliber of people who would invest time in seeking out matters Crimson & Fripp. Hey isn't the internet a wonderful place! It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood, a beautiful day for a neighbor....... On a more positive note I just got Adrian's "Acoustic Adrian Belew". What a sparce, clean shining little gem it is. The simplicity of the arrangements present the songs and performer in a clear light. Having this, Belewprints and seeing AB do the between set songs with P2 makes me even more regretful that I missed the acoustic tour. Hey how's about a mini (or maxi) acoustic DGM tour (AB, CGT, ESC, Tony G, Gauchos segue into LoCG & the Great Roberto and introducing some new GC players). Anyway getting back to reality if you don't have AAB and Belewprints and you like the "essense of the brew", I would highly recommend them both. Thanks to Don Wool for the Guitar article heads up. I was quite good, retospective, and covering alot of stuff know to ETers, but some good history info and nice photography. I thought the column by Mike P. of Dream theater was a bit foggy, just a personal take but I think it's more obvious to musicians the influence KC has had on music tahn it is to the general public so maybe Mike's comments were in order. On a related note I did enjoy Liquid Tension Experiments album and look forward to the new release. - Martin Bradburn "Act with courtesy, otherwise be polite" "When we have nothing to say, it is very hard to say nothing" Guitar Craft Aphorisms ------------------------------ Date: Thursday, 21 Jan 1999 18:13:42 From: tpayne at iglou dot com (Thomas Payne) Subject: Just when Toby was getting some sleep... ...the concept of a moderated discussion site is vindicated by RF's closure of the DGM Guestbook. The sense of frustration one feels seeing irresponsible graffiti in the Guestbook is the same feeling one experiences when someone uses a flash camera at an RF event. In either case, we are helpless individually to stop it - although my desire to be a member of civil society conflicts with my wanting to rip the lungs out of the perpetrator. The world has no shortage of jerks. Oh, well... It speaks well of RF's audience (or at least to their average age) that the Guestbook lasted as long as it did - an uncensored guestbook at, say, an Aerosmith site wouldn't have lasted a day. ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #568 ********************************