E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Issue Number 565 Monday, 11 January 1999 Today's Topics: NEWS: News from the Belew and Keneally Camps Sinfield address? exposure J.G. Bennett Deja Vrooom buffalo '66 JG Bennett MuiskLaden dvd Collector's Club #2 and Fripp's Diary Spin Art on Club Releases NY3 classified The Bruford Tapes Crimso pics Have I offended someone? (Re: KC CC #2) Lizard regarding Bennett My World Tour of Canada GIG REVIEW: CGT Live 1/9/98 GIG REVIEW: Any reviews of Haskell gigs? ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is temporarily being produced using Cheetah PRO Mailing Systems (c) Black Cat Software Factory (info at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk) ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Saturday, 9 Jan 1999 01:29:58 From: drew40 at mindspring dot com (Andrew Fignar Jr.) Subject: NEWS: News from the Belew and Keneally Camps I don't how many of you are familiar with Mike Keneally and his band Beer For Dolphins? He is also a band member in Steve Vai's band. Former Zappa band member. The stunt Guitarist, First their was Adrian Belew, then Steve Vai, and finally Mike Keneally. He filled the position well, if you missed his last tour with Beer For Dolphins. You missed some of the most excellent music being played today. Mike is great as he comes online when he's home and keeps his fans updated well, even direct communication on his news group or his mailing list. Mike relates well to fans as he also is a big fan of good music. Every time I've seen Mike live he has come into the audience to chat with fans, or have a beer, watch the opening acts with his fans, and friends. Alt.music.mike-Keneally Is his newsgroup. You can find out more about him at his web page. http://www.moosenet.com/keneally.html The news is Mike has announced he is trying to get a project together with Tony Levin, Terry Bozzio, and himself. Also is working on trying to get some recording time with Adrian Belew. He recently asked his fans to fill out a survey on what merchandise, and projects they would like to see. Robert Fripp recently mentioned him in his online diaries, and also have spoken well of him during last summer's soundscapes tour. Anytime Mike tours it's worth going to see. Really, even if you don't care that much for his music, seeing him will change your mind. he will ring your bell! Trust me! ------------------------------ Date: Friday, 8 Jan 1999 20:55:45 From: ac056 at mvcn dot dayton dot oh dot us (Michael J. Bennett) Subject: Sinfield address? Does anyone have an address where I might be able to write to Pete Sinfield? I have really been enjoying his album Stillusion and want to send him a note. Thanks. ------------------------------ Date: Friday, 8 Jan 1999 21:15:25 From: wdckdarin at webtv dot net (Darin Giammusso) Subject: exposure I was wondering if R Fripp plans on doing another remix/remaster of his Exposure album for cd. I believe the one that is available now is somewhat different from the original album version. Is this the final version? thanks DG ------------------------------ Date: Friday, 8 Jan 1999 22:42:31 From: mark dot fenkner at wilcom dot com (Fenkner, Mark) Subject: J.G. Bennett Anyone who really knows about Bennet would probably not try to sum up his "philosophy" in an email. I would suggest reading some on the topic. A good start would be "In Search of the Miraculous" by P.D. Ouspenksy. But the 4th Way is dead (if it ever lived) ;-) Mark Fenkner ------------------------------ Date: Friday, 8 Jan 1999 19:54:44 From: relph at mando dot engr dot sgi dot com (John Relph) Subject: Deja Vrooom Enoboy at aol dot com writes, concerning Deja Vroom: > >The picture quality is OK at best, while the audio quality >is better. I suspect that the picture quality had to be kept >low because there is simply a huge amount of audio >information and the bits had to be used there. Nice theory, but I believe it's just because the video quality was low to begin with. Have you watched the _Three of a Perfect Pair - Live in Japan_ video? The same video "artist" and his team filmed _Deja Vrooom_. For some reason they seem to think that overdriving the video gain, jiggling and other effects make the video more interesting. I think it can be said that the Talking Heads' _Stop Making Sense_ went right over their heads. -- John ------------------------------ Date: Saturday, 9 Jan 1999 04:12:16 From: aqd at connection dot com (derek andrew orford) Subject: buffalo '66 If anyone hasn't seen the film "Buffalo '66" as of yet, I would suggest renting it. The sight of Christina Ricci tap dancing to "Moonchild" is one of the more touching/disturbing moments I've seen in a film in quite a while. Enjoy, and Dream Well ------------------------------ Date: Saturday, 09 Jan 1999 06:11:42 From: sws at rmi dot net (Steve) Subject: JG Bennett In ET# 564, Eric Kirchner asked about the teachings of Bennett, and the fact that there is no mention of him in the faq. Obviously, Bennett and his teachings have profoundly influenced Robert Fripp. Kathryn Ottersten has crafted a very fine and concise Q/A regarding this subject. Look for it in the faq update this Sunday, January 10th, under Section V (Robert Fripp). A hearty mile-high (Colorado) thank you to Kathryn for her help ;-). -Steven Sthole et faqmaster ------------------------------ Date: Saturday, 09 Jan 1999 06:41:32 From: sws at rmi dot net (Steve) Subject: MuiskLaden dvd Yesterday, at the Virgin Megastore in downtown Denver, I purchased a dvd video called "The Best of MusikLaden, Vol. 1". This video features Jethro Tull, Deep Purple, Procol Harum, and many other artists once featured on the Beat Club. The audio has been re-mastered for Dolby 5.1, and the video quality is outstanding. I have seen some of these same performances from the laser discs, and these are of an even better quality. What I am hoping is that the legendary Beat Club performance of KC performing 'Lark's Tongues In Aspic, Part I' is someday included on one of these compilations. My vhs copy from the laserdisc is rather grainy. Again, this MusikLaden dvd is crystal-clear and technically excellent. Now, patiently waiting for Deja Vroom ..... -sws **************************************************** Steven Sthole : Software Engineer & Y2K Consultant, Computer Task Group My home page: http://home.rmi.net/~sws/indexb.html Author of 'The Greatest Band In The Universe': http://home.rmi.net/~sws/band.html ET Faqmaster: http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm ..... and , lifelong Denver Broncos fan! http://home.rmi.net/~sws/broncos.htm **************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Saturday, 9 Jan 1999 13:27:22 From: z946128 at rice dot farm dot niu dot edu (flaherty michael w) Subject: Collector's Club #2 and Fripp's Diary I. Expectations will, inevitably, color each club member's reactions to each release. Unfair as it is, my secret expectation was that this CD would rearrange my conception of the "Islands" KC as "Epitaph" did for my conception of the "Court" KC. My feeling on "Earthbound" is that it is worth listening to, should be re-released, but is , for me, unspectacular. That is also my opinion of this release. I know some of you find this recording to be an ear-opening event. To my ears it is not, but I add that I am still enjoying it very much. II. Which release one prefers will be determined by one's personal taste; that I will prefer #3 to #s 1 and 2, for example, is a foregone conclusion. In Mr Fripp's comments he says that "Improvisation has played an important, even critical role, in all the Crims. This live Crimson was more a jamming than an improvising outfit." I think this is very true, and perhaps best catagorizes the differences between this KC and the KC that follows. III. I like having a copy of Fripp's web diary and ask him to continue printing it in future releases. I would point out, however, that the glich in the new version of the diary caused an exclusion of the posting for October 14 in which Fripp provides a brilliant explanation as to why "Circus" is being distibuted by Virgin rather than DGM. I request that the error be corrected in the next release. The fact in his answer Fripp refers directly to an ego-maniac named Michael Flaherty has, of cource, nothing to do with this request. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Friday, 08 Jan 1999 19:05:57 From: DouglasOtte at worldnet dot att dot net (Douglas Otte) Subject: Spin Art on Club Releases Iain Robertson asked about the spine art on the CC releases. Actually, they do form an image, but you have to put them backwards. With the "puzzle" sides facing you, CC#1 should be on your left; & both are right-side-up. I can see the Epitaph cover or poster at the bottom & somebody's forearm w/ wristwatch above it. ?$?$?$?$?$?$?$?$?$?$$? "You'll pay to know what you really think." - Bob Dobbs ------------------------------ Date: Sunday, 10 Jan 1999 00:37:51 From: deafjim at webtv dot net (James Crary) Subject: NY3 classified Does anyone know the name of the New York family who Robert Fripp humiliated and whose rights he violated in the making of "NY3" on the album Exposure? I would like to see if they would help me. Photo: www.inergy.com/crary ------------------------------ Date: Sunday, 10 Jan 1999 10:01:15 From: MARABUS at aol dot com Subject: The Bruford Tapes I really love the music on B.Bruford's(The Bruford Tapes).2 questions: Was the complete show ever released-if so is it available on cd? The musicians that play on it;Did they ever record a studio lp together? If you can assistplease e-mail me. Thanks, Pete ------------------------------ Date: Sunday, 10 Jan 1999 17:14:16 From: Matekudesy at aol dot com Subject: Crimso pics FYI, if you go to http://www.livetonight.com/ you will see some cool digital photos of the boys playing in Randall's Island, New York City when the Horde Festival was in town August 16, 1996. From the home page click on the "exclusive digital Photos" icon then follow the link for the Horde Festival and voila! Keep rockin', Aus ------------------------------ Date: Monday, 11 Jan 1999 02:49:04 From: ssmith36 at sprynet dot com (Steve Smith) Subject: Have I offended someone? (Re: KC CC #2) > From: micheljch at hotmail dot com (Michel Champagne) > Subject: Have I offended someone? > > My detractor summed up his feelings with the following: > > >My opinion is that you should think before you type. > > Perhaps, but this is not rocket science, and I was so > excited about the CD that I just _had_ to post a giddy > hoo-hah note about it. > > Can you please forgive me?! Well, pardon me for butting in, and not that I *really* think he was seeking support for his views ;-) , but I found Michel's posting regarding the '71 Crim to be right on target. I posted similar sentiments at rec.music.progressive, but didn't them here for a variety of reasons, some of which are obvious, given Michel's experience, and some of which are stated within my message itself. But now, given what he's encountered, I'll repeat my post here as well, with a couple of important sidebars marked as [E.T. EDIT]: >>>>>> Posted to rec.music.progressive and alt.music.progressive on January 7, 1999: I retain a perverse degree of affection for this most unloved of all Crimsos. I like "Live at Jacksonville, 1972." I like it a lot. It sounds fine, despite the requisite distortion at high volumes and the fact that Ian's enthusiastic drumming is almost always mixed too high, especially the bass drums. (And has anybody yet figured out why Ian really needed a double bass drum set-up, aside from the fact that it looked pretty "cutting edge" in '72?) Boz's voice has never bothered me and doesn't here, although I wince as much as ever when he slips some of that crappy boho scat of his into "Ladies of the Road," mercifully briefly. And he plays bass better than I could, so I'm hardly going to fault him for not being Levin, Wetton, Lake, or even Haskell. I mean, damn, he at least *keeps up* in "21st Century Schizoid Man," and then some! (No, I was not a Bad Company fan.) And the version of "Schizoid" here is indeed a keeper (more below), as is "Sailor's Tale," though of course the latter is the same version that appeared on "Earthbound," then truncated to delete the long stoopid drum solo (since on "Earthbound" the long stoopid drum solo occurs during "Groon"). Fripp is on fine form throughout, naturally, and earns his huzzahs. But the star of this show (and arguably this version of the band) was Mel Collins, and he is extraordinary. A powerful saxophonist, perhaps the only rock flutist I've ever been able to stomach, and absolutely one of the most important musicians to ever have been in the band, and I'm sure Fripp would agree. For just one example (of many): Mel's solo coming out of Fripp's in "Schizoid" is just insane, at first primitive, built of mostly squeals and repeated notes and brief motifs, and then he follows this with the ultra-precise playing in the following tutti section and caps it with the most unbelievably demented squawk after the main theme reappears (at 8:40 into the track) to really nail the performance. He goes into absolute freakout mode at the very end of the track as well. Unforgettable, and the highlight of the disc for me. I've heard better *performances* of much of this material on boots of the same era (for instance the completely volcanic "Cirkus" from the Academy of Music in NYC, 11/71, and the somewhat more complete "Celebration of the Lizard" from the Orpheum in Boston, 3/72), though I'm reluctant to say as much in fear of having my shoes spat upon, or worse, my membership revoked. [E.T. EDIT: I *swear,* Robert, I've completely stopped shopping for live boots since the ColleKctors Club started...] Ultimately my assumption is this: Fripp's disdain for this period has softened over the years to the point that he feels guardedly enthusiastic about its successes, and has here released a more equivocal release in the best sound manageable, whereas "Earthbound" always struck me as a bit of a contractual obligation "fuck you," in that its high points are almost equally counterbalanced by low points (the two dimwit jams where Boz scats to his heart's content), with the applause seemingly purposefully truncated. [E.T. EDIT: Yes, it's true, I *wasn't* there, and that's why I state that this view of "Earthbound" was "my assumption" and no more.] Another thought: Fripp would seem to have posited in recent years that he doesn't feel KC to be a "prog" band in the sense that we all roughly define the term. Very well, then... this version of Crimso was the only instance of his KC music played by distinctly non-prog musicians - talented players and well-meaning punters, but not Belews or Brufords or McDonalds (Collins aside). Therefore, if this Crim failed to meet the goals Fripp intended, perhaps we arrive at the conclusion that KC must *ideally* be a prog band, after all... a collection of supernaturally gifted players not afraid to use their minds to the same extent as their inclination to "rock out." [E.T. EDIT: You can read a potentially interesting exchange between myself and Henry Potts, Hero and Knight Templar of the alt.music.yes newsgroup, regarding this post, my esteem for the skills of both Wallace and Burrell, and my interpretation of "prog" and its application to King Crimson by running a search on "KC Collectors Club" at http://www.dejanews.com -- I'll waste no more bandwidth here on the subject.] But hey, I'm just dribblin' and droolin' here. "Live in Jacksonville, 1972" is a fine addition to the collection, and the ColleKctor's Club is shaping up to be exactly what I'd hoped it would be. And, less than a week from King Crimson's 30th birthday (January 13), I must get off this soapbox and simply place hand on heart and say, "Happy birthday and God bless." >>>>>> So, anyway, there's my support for what you originally posted, Michel. You were *not* "perhaps deservedly, scolded justly," but broadsided unjustly for a more than enthusiastic and equinanimous post, and your response to your rebuttal was fair and dignified. Somehow I managed to overlook your plaintiff's original message, but IMHO you are most certainly welcome to your opinion, regardless of whether or not you might have been able to play onstage with any of the Crims. I know by professional standards *I'm* not thusly qualified (although I'd like to think I, too, could have learned to play bass "parrot style" at Fripp's hands in order to sing with Crim...). But then that's never actually been the point of criticism of the arts, now, has it? And E.T. is the one place where I might have felt (until recently?) that I might at least weigh in on the relative merits of a new record by my favorite band, and I suspect you must have felt the same, no? And, *on* the record, let me reiterate that the differences between P. Giles and M. Giles playing "Pictures of a City" and Haskell and McCullough playing "Cirkus," and Burrell and Wallace attempting to duplicate either of the above live are *FAR* more than "minute differences," no matter how much anyone might wish it to be otherwise. "More than adequately" sums it up nicely, actually. Best regards, Steve Smith ssmith36 at sprynet dot com NP - KC - In the Wake of Poseidon - "In the Wake of Poseidon" ------------------------------ Date: Monday, 11 Jan 1999 07:41:10 From: patnolan at indigo dot ie (Pat Nolan) Subject: Lizard I'm updating my vinyl for CD. I've waited and waited for a re-mastered Lizard but have yet to see one. Other titles in the series are available re-mastered but not this. The only CDs in retail outlets are dated 1970 or so, when the original title first appeared. Is there a re-mastered CD of Lizard available now (or in the future)? Pat Nolan ------------------------------ Date: Monday, 11 Jan 1999 10:03:59 From: malhomme at vete dot ucl dot ac dot be (Malhomme) Subject: regarding Bennett I suggest you find some books from Gurdjieff and start reading them. Good luck. Some points are especially obscure. Olivier Malhomme ------------------------------ Date: Monday, 11 Jan 1999 09:05:12 From: bnt at ibm dot net (Brian Thomson, London UK) Subject: My World Tour of Canada Hi, folks. This is the London UK ETers coordinator... [ The what?! - Mike ] ...who's visiting Canada shortly, and is keen to see some of the local colour, or, failing that meet up with Krimsonites from the Great White North! 8-{ I'll be landing in Toronto on 18 Jan & spending a few days there. The last few days will be in the Vancouver area, flying out on 29 Jan. In between, there might be side trips to Nova Scotia, Ottawa, Seattle or even California. Whatever. I'm on vacation. If any of you fancy meeting for a Molson or three, drop me a line. (Or should that read Mooseheads?) I'll hopefully find some Internet access every day or so I'm there. Cheers..! Brian Thomson, London UK bnt at email dot com / bnt at ibm dot net ------------------------------ Date: Sunday, 10 Jan 1999 21:44:28 From: snow at integrityonline3 dot com (snow) Subject: GIG REVIEW: CGT Live 1/9/98 Hello ETers, On Saturday, January 9th, I saw the California Guitar Trio perform two shows--the first at Guitar City at 13:30 in Centerville Utah, and the second at Borders at 19:30 in Salt Lake City. This was the trio's first performance in this area since the gig at the First Presbyterian Church this past September. The Guitar City performance was part of an artist showcase that is to take place at the store periodically from now on. It took place in a small room that fit the roughly 30 attending enthusiasts. The first surprise of the day was that Tony Geballe was opening! This was not expected. For this performance he did an abreviated three song set. The CGT then came on and did an abreviated 45 min. to 1 hour performance which included the trio's new version of 'Pictures at an Exhibition'. Every memory of this performance that I have involves myself having a huge smile on my face. It was a wonderful, passionate, intimate, performance that far exceeded my expectations. Expecations? Well, the Presbyterian Church performance this past September was the most profound musical event of my life. It is very difficult to exaggerate the love and goodwill that existed between the audients and helped the trio to play. Because these two January 9th performances took place in stores and not churches, I didn't arrive expecting a life changing event. And besides, if you ever go to a performance expecting a life changing event, you won't get one. The audience at Guitar City was very supportive and the performance took place in a room that was separate from the main part of the store which only helped the atmosphere. The Borders performance turned out to be a very different experience for me. During the day that has passed since this performance, I've become very sad everytime I've thought about it. I've also spent much of the past day reflecting on why this might be. Firstly, the Tony Geballe and the CGT performed exceedingly well, and so I sense that this feeling of despair has more to do with the atmosphere surrounding the performance than the actual performers. Much of it, as I see it, is my own fault, as my attention was not as engaged as should have been, and as it was at all of the other performances. This is also a very commercial venue that made the musical event seem a little ill-placed. Another possible factor was the video bootlegger sitting directly in front of me in the first row. This individual is a person aquintence of mine who simply wanted something that he could use to remember the concert by. His act was innocent, although seemingly destructive. This same person purchased three of four of the titles on sale at the earlier performance and asked at that time if the artists would allow him to video it. I was surprised to hear that the artists felt that they were not in a position to turn down his request. It was said that perhaps when they are more famous, established artists will they do this. My sense is that it is this same view that leads to the artist signing autographs after the show instead of avoiding contact with the audience as RF tends to do. I have a tremendous amount of sympathy for an artist who wishes to become an established artist. It seemes to me that by allowing the bootlegging, they put their own commercial desires above their commitment to the performance. However, in my sympathy, I find this quite excusable. I think that not allowing photography or bootlegging is too much to ask of an artist and if I was in the same position as the artists, I probably would have done the same thing. At the risk of sounding judgemental, I'll say that Tony Geballe and the CGT are Good Guys and have my support in whatever decisions they make regarding the performance. My expecations of the Borders show were disappointed. This is my own fault and I'm sorry to have burdened the artists with them. It seemes appropriate to end this post with a report on some of the resonances that have come about as a result of September's Presbyterian Church performance. In my Sept ET review of the performance, I stated that I left the church asking myself "what good can I do to help and enrich the life of another". It is very difficult to have unconditional love for every human being that I encounter. I don't think that I've ever felt so much love in my entire young life as I did at that performance. Since that performance, whenever I've had difficultly loving another person or collective group of people, I've just remembered back to how I felt on that night. The night of the Pres Church performance was the night that I started keeping a personal daily journal. The initial entry reads "Never have I been so inspired by an event in my life that I've set aside the time to write about it.". My intention is to maintain daily entries in this journal for the rest of my life. My experience of the performance also powered my intention to become involved in Guitar Craft in 2 1/2 years, which is when my current commitements will allow me to. I had never seen the CGT perform before this event and had no expectations Sorry about the length of the post. My thanks to anyone generous enough to read this far. Sincerely Owen Temby ------------------------------ Date: Monday, 11 Jan 1999 13:14:14 From: tam625 at hooked dot net (John Selby) Subject: GIG REVIEW: Any reviews of Haskell gigs? DanKirkd at aol dot com wrote... >Since none have been posted I was wondering if any ETers >attended the recent Gordon Haskell shows, and could post a >review. Gordon Haskell reviews of the North Bay Nov 22,27,29 4th street Tavern Southern California shows Dec 3rd & 5th Scruffy O'Sheas. St Stevens Green. The bulk of the shows where New Material from his new Demo CD. (Which he recently recorded in England with some session musicians) "Alligator Man", "California on His Mind" "Playing Xylophone", "Sunshine Days" "The Scheme of Things", "You Can't Hold a Good Man Down" Well constructed songs with hooks that have stuck in my head for weeks! Gordon also played all of "Butterfly in China" except "Things We Said Today" Some of the highlights for me were; "What do Broken Hearted People Do" Nov 29th "Worms" Nov 29th,"Hambledon Hill" Dec 3rd & 5th They were solo shows "Voice & Guitar" with some guest appearance by Martin Fierro (Quicksilver Messenger Service &The Grateful Dead) Sax on "Go Tell Sarah" the first night Nov 22. Gordon sat in with a local band the "Name Droppers" on Friday Nov 27th to add vocals and guitar to a few cover songs including "Its Alright Mamma" & "Georgia" "Their Ain't No Sunshine". "The Name Droppers" also backed Gordon for the second set on Sunday Nov 29. A Violinist backed Gordon on a song on Dec 3rd. On the 5th an electric guitarist sat in on the encores with the Violinist. The clubs were small & intimate. Two of the venues, 4th Street Tavern & Scruffy O'Shea's were a bit noisy though. St Stevens Green had the best sound and crowd. Gordon's energy level and enthusiasm were high. His vocals were wonderfully rich and emotional and he is an expressive guitar player able to extend the rhythms by tapping the guitar. A very humble performer whom giving homage to Michael Franks, wondered if he could do one of Frank's song's justice. He did! Over all, wonderful shows in my opinion. Gordon would like to visit the US again and hopefully he will be able to play more cities. I hope more people will come to the shows next tour. Please go, you will not be disappointed. Gordon has 7 CDs available. The Marina Del Ray show was video taped for "The Baby Boomer's" an upcoming PBS TV show and possible tour. There is also some amateur video of some shows that might be released if there is enough interest to warrant it Please feel free to contact me tam625 at hooked dot net or Nigel Slater nslater at neotech dot u-net dot com about a US tour and the commercial release of the new material. Gordon Haskell's web site is http://www.haskell.co.uk/ for CD's, tour dates and other information. John ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #565 ********************************