E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Issue Number 562 Monday, 4 January 1999 Today's Topics: Happy New Year NEWS: KC DVD Event NEWS: Jacksonville and DGM and ET Web GIG BIZ: CGT Confirmed Southwest Tour Schedule for January Happy Holidays Everyone! recent events Jeeeesus; Bill Kent "Discipline" Celtic Knotwork Moto Perpetuo Various Boz Burrell TONY LEVIN IN THE NEW JOHN LENNON VIDEO History Review/Repeat on Robert Fripp Fripp lyrics KC Tourdates 81/82 appropriation of KC material A Frippin' Year to all!!! Starless and Bible Black. Does RF own a home recording studio? Live at Jacksonville GIG REVIEW: b.l.u.e. in chitown ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ETWeb: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/cgi-bin/newslet.pl IRC: Regular get-togethers at #ElephantTalk on Undernet Sundays at Noon PST / 3pm EST / 8pm GMT Mondays at 6pm PST / 9pm EST / 2am GMT THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is temporarily being produced using Cheetah PRO Mailing Systems (c) Black Cat Software Factory (info at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk) ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Friday, 1 Jan 1999 From: Mike Dickson Subject: Happy New Year Welcome to the first edition of Elephant Talk published in 1999. On behalf of Toby, Dan and myself may I wish all our readers the very best for the forthcoming twelve months. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Wednesday, 23 Dec 1998 13:03:57 From: otter at nfx dot net (Kathryn Ottersten) Subject: NEWS: KC DVD Event Hi Crimpersons, Just a bit of info for the West Coast crowd: T-Lev, on his site, writes, "King Crimson has a release event in L.A. on Jan 27th, for the new Crimson DVD." This fits in with the announced dates for Bruford's Earthwork's tour. Have fun. Kathryn Ottersten "They come better looking, but they don't come mannered." ------------------------------ Date: Thursday, 31 Dec 1998 12:18:38 From: DanKirkd at aol dot com Subject: NEWS: Jacksonville and DGM and ET Web Happy Holidays to all! Because a number of people have been asking let me address the following issues concerning the 2nd DGM Club release and the DGM Web site. To all those out there impatiently awaiting the Jacksonville Club release - it's coming! Quite clearly the UK office seems to get hold of these before the US office, thus the delay in the Americas. But ne'er fear, Amy and company are frantically packaging and mailing them out now, so it should be in your hands soon. Also, if you have a question about a DGM order, best to contact DGM USA (Possible Productions), or DGM UK through the telephone number or email address on your mail order form or in your confirmation email. If you have nits to pick about the DGM web site, or problems or errors you'd like to point out, feel free to email me at DanKirkd at aol dot com about them. Of course that goes for ET Web too. Know that we continue to bug (the) Demon about securing the DGM web ordering. In the meantime, I've done some things that better scramble credit card information. Personally I feel comfortable entering my credit card information through DGM's web form - for what that's worth. If you don't, consider providing DGM with credit card information by email or fax one time, and from then on in your web order just enter a note asking for DGM to use your credit card information on file. DGM Web things I'll be working on in 1999: improved site navigation, improved web ordering and timeliness of updates to the catalog and improved info about Guitar Craft. DGM may also leverage some of the strengths of ET Web. One of these is the ET FAQ. We're working on improving and modifying it so it can serve both ET Web and DGM Web. Hopefully these and the subtle improvements so far will continue to make DGM Web site a better one. ET Web and DGM Web will continue to be separate entities, with separate purposes and philosophies, that just happen to have the same webmaster. I believe that both ET Web and DGM Web will benefit from this, if not my free time (what free time?!) Happy New Year, Dan ------------------------------ Date: Wednesday, 30 Dec 1998 22:11:51 From: jlybrook at indra dot com (Jon Lybrook) Subject: GIG BIZ: CGT Confirmed Southwest Tour Schedule for January Hi All, Here is the confirmed Southwest U.S. tour schedule for the CGT in January. New on the CGT website is the CGT Discography. Besides the CGT's work with the League of Crafty Guitarists, the CGT Discography also includes some albums you may not have heard about, to round out your CGT knowledge or collection. Check it out at http://www.cgtrio.com/disco.htm Happy Holidays! Jon CGT Web ~^*~^~^*~^*~^*~^*^~~*^~^*~^*~^*~^*~^*~^*~^*~^ Date Day City Time & Location Jan 8 Fri Bountiful, UT 9:30am, Viewmont High School (Students Only) Jan 8 Fri Provo, UT 7:30pm, Borders Books 4801 N. University Ave. Suite 910 Jan 9 Sat Centerville, UT 2:00pm, Guitar City 470 No. 1100 West Jan 9 Sat Salt Lake City, UT 7:30pm, Borders Books 175 East 6400 South Jan 10 Sun Phoenix, AZ 6:00pm, Borders Books 7320 West Bell, Glendale Jan 11 Mon Phoenix, AZ 7:00pm, 1361 S. Alma School Rd. Mesa Jan 12 Tue Travel Day Travel Day Jan 13 Wed Santa Fe, NM 7:30pm, Borders Books 500 Montezuma Jan 14 Thu Santa Fe, NM 8:00pm, The Paramount 331 Sandoval (505) 982-8999 Jan 15 Fri Albuquerque, NM 7:00pm, Borders Books 2100 Louisiana Suite 40 Jan 16 Sat Travel Day Travel Day Jan 17 Sun Oklahoma City 3:00pm, Borders Books, 3209 Northwest Expwy Jan 18 Mon Dallas, TX 7:00pm, Borders Books, 10720 Preston Road Suite 1018 Jan 19 Tue Dallas, TX 7:00pm, Borders Books 5500 Greenville Ave. Jan 20 Wed Ft. Worth, TX 7:00pm, Borders Books 4613 S. Hulen Jan 21 Thu Austin, TX 7:00pm, Borders Books 10225 Research Road Jan 22 Fri San Antonio 5:00pm, Borders Books 11745 I H-10 West Jan 23 Sat Austin, TX 9:00pm, Cactus Cafe 24th and Guadalupe Jan 24 Sun San Antonio, TX 2:00pm, Borders Books 255 E. Basse Road Jan 25 Mon Houston, TX 7:30pm, Borders Books 570 Meyerland Plaza Jan 26 Tue Houston, TX 7:00pm, Borders Books Westheimer Road Jan 27 Wed Travel Day Travel to LA Jan 28 Thu Los Angeles, CA 5pm - 7:45pm, NAMM Rendezvous Cafe Jan 29 Fri Los Angeles, CA L.A. Convention Center Jan 30 Sat Los Angeles, CA L.A. Convention Center Jan 31 Sun Los Angeles, CA NAMM - Fly home in Evening ------------------------------ Date: Wednesday, 23 Dec 1998 10:20:17 From: sgoodman at earthlight dot net (Stephen P. Goodman) Subject: Happy Holidays Everyone! A short note to wish everyone in and on this list, the best of holidays. May we all be with those close to us at this time, if not physically, then at least spiritually. Another short note, that I'll be releasing This Year's Free Song on the 24th; it's to be named "Fur or Feather", and will be posted tomorrow afternoon/evening for your enjoyment. In case one doesn't know, for the past 3 years I've been posting an annual piece, composed for the season, made available for free charitable use. It'll be at http://www.earthlight.net/Studios by that time. Do drop in and say hello at least! Stephen Goodman - It's... The Loop Of The Week! EarthLight Studios - http://www.earthlight.net/Studios ------------------------------ Date: Wednesday, 23 Dec 98 14:19:08 E From: campaigner at usa dot net (James Dusewicz) Subject: recent events I just recently received a postcard from DGM advertising the new 'Sometimes God Smiles A Young Persons Guide to DGM'. Needless to say I went to the DGM website and ordered it for $7.50. I was really impressed with the contents therein. It now sits alongside the first DGM compilation. Prior to that postcard I received the literature advertising the DGM collectors club. Now that money is less tight{and those fantastic reviews of early KC CD's on ET have riveted my attention}, I plan on plunking down my $96 early in 1999. Finally with the horrible new of yet another ELP split, I wonder if Greg Lake will contact his old buddy Robert Fripp for a record contract with DGM? I'm sure that Mr. Fripp would love to have him recording with DGM, and who knows what might be over the horizon for these two former Crim associates? Merry Christmas jim campaigner at usa dot net James Dusewicz ------------------------------ Date: Tuesday, 22 Dec 1998 15:29:35 From: scottst at ohsu dot edu (Scott Steele) Subject: Jeeeesus; Bill Kent >Jeeeesus. Just a LITTLE over the top, aren't you? The same comment can be made both ways; indeed, one would question why anyone would want to troll the creator of the Adrian Belew website. Can't you expect the response you will get? >(At this point the cappucino-encrusted manuscript >fractalizes into unequal parts, some with acoustic drums, >some without.) Thanks Bill Kent, your postings are hilarious. I hope they are accepted by all the readers of ET in the spirit in which they are offered. - S. scottst at ohsu dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Tuesday, 22 Dec 1998 18:37:42 From: jchapli at ibm dot net (Jeffrey Chaplin) Subject: "Discipline" Celtic Knotwork In answer to Griff Lewis' question I enclose the following, which I received from the writer, John Kyrk, after I noticed this same logo on his own web pages, which may be found at http://www.sirius.com/~johnkyrk/index.html Quote: Thanks for writing about my knotwork mark. I am its designer, and, as a matter of fact, I do have a copyright on it, as it is quite popular. I got interested in the Fourth Way around 1970. I once saw a demonstration of movements in Boston narrated by Mr Bennett. I was on the fourth course at the Claymont Society in West Virginia that started in 1978, and later was a resident, and I know Larry Altman from there. All of the FourthWay people I know seem to be in the Bennett line. When I started hand letterpress printing in 1975, I designed a printer's mark for myself. I modied an ancient celtic knotwork pattern so that it alluded to the enneagram. At small size it also looks like a lion's face. When Claymont started its journal Impressions in 1981, my knotwork was printed with permission on the cover. Robert Fripp says that, when saw it, he thought it was an ancient mark, and erroneously put it on the cover of the King Crimson album Discipline, where it was copyrighted. Robert apologized, paid me a token of appreciation, and promised to stop using the mark. I discovered last year that it is still on the cover of Discipline. A few years after the appearance of my mark on Impressions and Discipline, Robert's new recording company sported the knotwork logo that you see on the Discipline Global Mobile website. At the outset of this saga I copyrighted my mark, and I continue to use it. It still reflects my interest in Gurdjieff as well as the things I've gotten into because of him. I'm glad you noticed. End quote. ------------------------------ Date: Wednesday, 23 Dec 98 00:39:40 G From: Ajdouglas at btinternet dot com (Tony Douglas) Subject: Moto Perpetuo Dear all, Having looked at the transcription of the moto perpetuo from Fracture, would it be a fair statement that Fracture refers to the state of your wrists after an ill-advised assault on this piece rather than any emotional state ? And there was me thinking that the transcription of 21CSM was scary ... Have a fun Yule y'all - Tony ------------------------------ Date: Wednesday, 23 Dec 98 01:00:16 G From: Ajdouglas at btinternet dot com (Tony Douglas) Subject: Various Hi all, Various disconnected stuff ... 1. RF did indeed do the lyrics to You Burn Me Up I'm A Cigarette. To paraphrase, as a lyric-writer RF is a fabulous guitarist. "Transactional diseases we" indeed. 2. A Gibson Les Paul Custom was the staple guitar for many years (i have photos of RF with these between 1969 - 1981). Not sure if more than one example was used though - I'm sure I've seen two- and three-pickup examples (but always black - spooky !). 3. Connections game. Off the top of my head, poor examples, surely ? AB is surely on the "Gracelands" and "Remain in Light" albums, but not on the tracks listed ? Or is memory finally giving up ? 4. There definitely isn't a 4 this time around. Merry Christmas one and all, - Tony ------------------------------ Date: Tuesday, 22 Dec 1998 17:10:56 From: tam625 at hooked dot net (John Selby) Subject: Boz Burrell > I came across a reference to a Feb. 1968 Boz Burrell > single, "I Shall Be Released/Down in the Flood," on Nigel > Young's Deep Purple Diary page > http://members.aol.com/nigelyoung/mark1.htm Apparently > some members of Purple played on it. Is this for real? > I've never heard of it before. Anybody know anything a > about this? Thanks, Chris He had quite a few light Jazz/Pop 45s in the 60s. the following is from http://www.delerium.co.uk/ The Boz Personnel: a.. BOZ BURRELL vcls b.. IAN MacLAGAN keyb'ds c.. IAN WHITEMAN lead gtr 45s: 1.. You're Just The Kind Of Girl I Wanted/Isn't That So (Columbia DB 7832) 1966 2.. Meeting Time/No (Ah) Body Knows The Blues (Columbia DB 7889) 1966 3.. Pinnochio/Stay As You Are (Columbia DB 7941) 1966 4.. The Baby Song/Carry On Screaming (Columbia DB 7972) 1966 5.. I Shall Be Released/Down In The Flood (Columbia DB 8406) 1968 6.. Light My Fire/Back Against The Wall (Columbia DB 8468) 1968 A London-based band. Their singles included covers of Bob Dylan's I Shall Be Released and The Doors' Light My Fire. Musically they were very varied. Boz Burrell was later in King Crimson and Bad Company; Ian MacLagan went on to The Small Faces and The Faces and Ian Whiteman was later in The Action. ------------------------------ Date: Wednesday, 23 Dec 1998 00:20:08 From: dwool at yesic dot com (Donal Wool) Subject: TONY LEVIN IN THE NEW JOHN LENNON VIDEO I just saw, and video-taped, the "new" John Lennon promo video on MUCH MORE MUSIC called "I'm Losing You". For those who don't know, Tony Levin appears in this video along with Rick Neilson and the drummer for Cheap Trick. The story goes that these 3 guys played on this song when it was recorded and was asked to play in the video. (Check out http://www.papabear.com for more details.) I can't get over that "the powers that be" came up with the bright idea to ask these guys to be in the video! They could have easily just inserted old Lennon footage to make up an entire video, but they didn't! And as a result, we get some cool Tony Levin footage! :-) The video is basically in black & white and there's funny little cartoons interspersed throughout the video. The best "Tony" part comes when a little cartoon guy lands on his shoulder and he "flicks" him off! It's so funny how Tony "flicks" him! :-) A cool Rick Neilson part too - he throws his guitar pick up in the air, catches it in his mouth, and then spits it back to the camera. There's also a part where he's soloing and he gives the camera "the finger". :-( :-) Overall, a great tune and a great video. As of December 21st, 1998, the video is the "CHOICE CUT" on MUCH MORE MUSIC and it debuted on the countdown this week. I hope it makes it higher on the chart for more "Tony exsposure!" Take care, -Don- ------------------------------ Date: Sunday, 27 Dec 1998 09:26:35 From: basilej at yahoo dot com (Joseph Basile) Subject: History Review/Repeat on Robert Fripp Happy New Years Eters! I have received many positive comments on the Trower CD liner notes that I copied for Eters. This brought back memories of one of my first posts to this amazing newsletter. It is one of the best historical reviews of Fripp and his early contributions to rock IMHO. So, with some spelling corrections, here it is! Read a neat book that had a true reference or two about RF & KC. It talks about Jimmy Page and states,(ROCK OF AGES THE ROLLING STONES HISTORY OF ROCK AND ROLL ;by E. WARD, G. STOKES, K. TUCKER; 1986)"Though less influential, probably because more eccentric, King Crimson's Robert Fripp was even more inventive guitarist than Page." "Even before Frippertronics in the late 1970's, it seemed that Fripp could make his guitar do anything" "If Fripp specializes in anything, it was surprise; altered rhythm jarring dissonance in the midst of a melody(& vice versa)" It was for these qualities that he was most valued in New York's avant-garde scene in the early to mid 1980's, and even at Crimsons most portentous, Fripp always kept their audiences pleasantly off balance." But for all the impish humor that kept peeking through his solos, was like Page in one crucial way; Each successive album revealed that its predecessor had actually been restrained." "Fripp constantly pushed his art of surprise to the very edge one step further and surprise would have been impossible, because nothing, or everything, could have been anticipated." "Neither the heavymetal bands following Led Zeppelin, nor the post-Crimson art rockers ever managed with any consistency, to situate their restraint with the precision of Page or Fripp." "Given the year, they went, it appears even more clearly in retrospect, as far as you could go."-Rock Of Ages The Rolling Stones History of Rock In Roll (Until Thrak)-Joe Basile ------------------------------ Date: Monday, 28 Dec 1998 13:06:58 From: machinehead71 at hotmail dot com (Alex *) Subject: Fripp lyrics It would seem that mister Fripp did write the lyrics of "You burn me up I'm a cigarette" and also "Under Heavy Manners" "Remain in hell without despair O Urizel" ------------------------------ Date: Wednesday, 30 Dec 1998 22:18:56 From: klehr at home dot centernet dot de (L. Klehr) Subject: KC Tourdates 81/82 Hallo, I have information about KC tours 81/82 in USA and 82 France. I miss these dates in the official booklet of frame by frame. Who can help me Lothar klehr at home dot centernet dot de http://wwwtbw.mfh-iserlohn.de/technik1/lk/kingcrimson/kc_start.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thursday, 31 Dec 1998 19:25:24 From: cpbrady at merriweb dot com dot au (Brady Drum Company / Chris Bra) Subject: appropriation of KC material This subject may have been covered before but anyway........ Given Fripp's stance on bootlegging I wonder how he feels about appropriation. What am I talking about?? Well, I'm sure any Crimson fan would recognize the start of Aerosmith's 'Don't want to miss a thing' as none other than the intro to KC's 'Exiles'!!! ------------------------------ Date: Thursday, 31 Dec 1998 21:02:59 From: manfo at hotmail dot com (Manuel Fernandez) Subject: A Frippin' Year to all!!! A happy new year to all!!! May we keep on Fripping, getting Fripped-out, Fripped-off and Frippin' the fripp out of ourselves! And for those who didn't agree with me on this newsletter: Fripp You! And for those who did: Well, Fripp you too! HAHAAA!!!! Manuel. ------------------------------ Date: Saturday, 2 Jan 1999 04:01:09 From: Rothko25 at aol dot com Subject: Starless and Bible Black. I recently purchased "Starless and Bible Black" and have been enjoying it for almost a week. In fact, it hasn't been out of the CD player until today. While glancing at the track titles on the CD itself I noticed that my copy is printed with all of the text from "In The Court Of The Crimson King", all the music from "Starless" is intact and in order according to the CD case track listing. The cover in the gatefold is as it should be as well. Obviously a misprint, I was just wondering if anyone else had noticed this in recently purchased KC CD's. P.S. I wish to thank those who have created this website. It has been an incredible resource of information. Though I only discovered King Crimson's music in the spring of 1998 (better late than never!) beginning with the purchase of "The Nightwatch", I now frequent this site often to learn more about that particular time frame and configuration of King Crimson..... etc., etc., you fellows probably get tons of mail of the appreciative nature, but really, keep up the good work! Sincerely, Chris ------------------------------ Date: Saturday, 2 Jan 1999 16:12:41 From: lotus at zip dot com dot au (James Richmond) Subject: Does RF own a home recording studio? HI, Does Fripp own a home studio and if so, what equiptment is he using to record with? Regards, James Richmond Oblique ------------------------------ Date: Sunday, 03 Jan 1999 06:44:42 From: dlb at pobox dot com (David L. Bohnsack, Ph.D.) Subject: Live at Jacksonville Club Selection 2 arrived here in the far west Chicago suburbs in the midst of the Great Blizzard of '99. Kudos to our mail deliverer. This selection is better than the first release in all ways. The sound quality is better, the song selection is more to my liking and the performance seems better. I'm partial to Mel Collins and this is a showcase of Mel. Boz does an adequate job with the vocals, even though the pieces were clearly not written for his style (He's better on Ladies of the Road than Cirkus). The band lurches into several extended jams that are exactly what I was hoping to get out of the DGM club releases. I love the mellotron on Cirkus. I generally abhor drum solos, but Ian does a fine job, although I see skipping ahead of it during some future listenings. And, of course, Robert was in fine form. Despite the tensions between the members in this configuration, they sound like they are really having fun. For a bootleg of this era, I would term the sound quality very good, with only the few volume shifts minimally marring a tasty offering. Robert: more like this one, please. Jams, improv and songs not previously released as live recordings. A question: is Robert doing any of the speaking, the banter between tracks? It sounds like his style to say "We are going to attempt to lurch into a form of life...", but it doesn't sound to much like him. Probably Boz... This one will be in my players for the next few weeks. Thanks Robert. ------------------------------ Date: Tuesday, 22 Dec 1998 22:09:16 From: dtodd at bbn dot com (David Todd) Subject: GIG REVIEW: b.l.u.e. in chitown I can't speak for your experience in the winded city, but What Torn seemed to be doing in Cambridge was setting up sounds on the guitar, and then manipulating them with the equipment. Perhaps you misinterpreted? I can't comment as the the character of the music you heard, but I will say there were Crimsoid elements to the stuff I heard in Cambridge. Given that two defining members of Crimson are in the band, I suppose this only follows. I found Chris Botti quite good as well. Hacksaw = David Charles Todd GTEI-BBNT = Hacksaw's Employer Hacksaw's Opinions != GTEI-BBNT's Opinions Linux understands you. ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #562 ********************************